Thanks much for this video. It really helped me in my recent inspection of a 1999 Kawai UST-7 console offered at $1000. Your advice enabled me to determine that it was worth paying a tuner to inspect the piano after me. The tuner looked at it and told me to snap it up, so three days later it arrived in my living room. The move was 85 miles from a nearby city, so that cost quite a bit extra, but the piano was priced well below its probable worth. Nothing is certain until the piano is tuned in a week and a half from now, but I'm optimistic that I made a real find. One thing I've learned from extensive use of Craigslist to buy a variety of items: people have all kinds of reasons for the prices they set. So just because the price may seem suspiciously low, as on the piano I purchased, don't necessarily be afraid of it. Someone may just be trying to get what cash they can quickly, because they are selling the house, or they just may not know better, lots of possible reasons.
In my area (Western Canada) what I see is that people think every Kawaii, Yamaha, and Heintzmann (a well regarded canadian make) is worth bank, and that everything else is not. Which is weird, because it means those are overpriced, and everything else is reasonably priced. It's interesting to see these patterns.
I have purchased two pianos from Estate auctions, One was a 1990 Wurlitzer (USA) and the other a 1983 Story & Clark (USA)... both of them cost next to nothing to buy, and played properly after a cleaning and tuning. No disrespect to Piano dealers, but there's a TON of warning videos that discourage buying used pianos from anyone other than a dealer/technician.... THIS video gives good advice with no fear-mongering. MY advice from being a tuner and general instrument technician... LIVING ROOM pianos are greatly preferred to Basement Pianos... if the environment the piano was kept in is/was of stable humidity the piano should be in a moderately good health. People don't want a too hot/too cold/too damp/too dry living space... and neither does the piano.
Some good information but one of the most important points which is checking for what techs refer to as tight centers was omitted. Each individual part is mounted on a little wooden hinge who's center pin can be too tight to work properly and cause sluggish or sticking notes. There is a fix but it can be expensive as there are at least 264 pins which will need repair. Here's how to check for them - press and hold down the sustain pedal (the one on the right) then softly play several notes. If they don't operate smoothly, there may be trouble afoot. If everything seems OK, it's time to get a technician to have a look, he will check for other problems and can usually help with establishing a fair price.
Yes, that can be the case that the seller has overpriced the piano. On Craigslist you will see pianos that are overpriced and pianos that are a great deal. With experience you learn how to tell the difference. It's difficult because the seller often times doesn't know how to evaluate what their piano should be priced at. I'm hoping to soon make some videos on evaluating the pricing on actual pianos on Craigslist.
Hi Adrian, In ,many cases a seller would be willing to let you check the tuning pins, especially if the piano hasn't been tuned for a long time and is already somewhat out of tune. If you just check a single string of a unison you should be able to get it back to where it was fairly easily. You can do this on several notes throughout the range of the piano and get a general idea of the tuning pin tightness. You can look at the general condition of the action parts. You want to check the spacing of the hammers to see if they are evenly spaced and that all the notes respond. Many of the action things can be fixed though. If you try and not get something that is too old, this will help also. If the piano is less than about 40 years old, this is something to start with. If you're looking at pianos that are 60, 70 years or more old the parts will be in pretty rough shape in many cases.
The last time I bought a piano from Craigslist, the people had it halfway out the door by the time I got onto their front porch. Red flag, aye? The player vacuum pump within it (which is what I wanted for another piano) was worth the $80 I paid, even if the piano had a mouse problem. On the bright side, now I get to learn how to replace the various felts. Maybe then I can sell it for a profit.
I understand the part of checking to see if any note is more out of tune than the others. I also understand the part of checking for cracks in the sound board. I'm just wondering if there's anything else.
Hi there, I'm loving your channel and I'm subscribed already and really enjoying all your videos! Thanks for sharing. I have a question: When you say to check the tone of the piano, what that means? For exemple, I bough a piano that it "was tune" in B instead of C. And it was decades that wasn't tuned. That means if I tune the piano in C it wouldn't hold the tune for long? Or that would be ok? Thanks
Hi Marcelo, It definitely is possible that the piano could be brought up to concert pitch unless the strings were not in good shape such as having too much rust or the metal in the strings is fatigued. The tone just refers to the sound of the piano. It could be overly bright or not have enough sustain or projection. Sometimes these things can be worked with, but sometimes they are structural issues with the piano.
Hi. I wondered if what was on the side of this piano was for the purpose of moving it? I have one that needs to be properly moved. Any suggestions, same size as this one in video? thanks.
Thank you for sharing. I have been looking for a piano to practice tuning and regulating on. I found a decent yamaha for $200, which I thought was good, but when I started calling movers I was quoted between $250 and $395 for moving it. All together it's more than I wanted to spend. Any advice on finding affordable movers?
$200 for a decent used Yamaha is a very good deal. Even by the time you add on the moving fee, you've still gotten a good piano for a very good price. If you don't have enough to spend that much on a piano, you may want to think if you have a friend who may have a trailer that would help you move the piano. I know in some areas this is harder than in other areas. Just make sure that if you move it yourself that you strap it down well. Unfortunately piano movers aren't cheap. If you have a "Two Men and A Truck" franchise in your area, this may be a more affordable way to get the piano moved. Around here you can get a piano moved by them for around $175 depending on how far it's going.
Thank you for responding. I took your advice and adjusted my expectations. I bought the piano which turned out to be m-500 in pristine condition! Even after paying for the movers I got a great yamaha for less than $500!
Loose tuning pins can mean as ye porb know Steve, a dried out wrestplank (what we call the pinblock here in Britain usually). C. Beachstein and they're pre-1902 Model V upright if I'm recalling that right, can be known with central hearing to have the plank dry out and cause the pins to become very loose and not hold a tuning properly unless ye install a modern multi-laminate wrestplank which is much better with a modern centrally heated house. Of course many other pianos like the late 19th Century English Birdcage pianos, what that guy David I showed ye his website refers to as the Cottage Industry pianos. They're really bad for goin all wonky out of tune after 100 years because many times they weren't that well made to start with and alot of em are either 3/4 frame with an open-faced pinblock or they might even be wooden frame in some of the very, very old pianos which then ye really have to watch with what room and climate ye put em in. My 1920's Hayes upright which ye can see on my channel didn't go out of tune that badly as it was a better quality overstrung upright, as ye say pretty in tune with herself but still out of tune but the whole piano shifted a semitone flat all at the same rate. Whereas my very fist straight-strung upright was also a semitone flat but the treble section was way out compared to the bass section and being a smaller piano, the bass strings were very short and tubby sounding as the straight strung's generally weren't as long strings as a cross strung.
Okay. I have an appointment to meet with someone in my city to buy their used upright piano. Since I'm trying to replace an upright with a bad pin-block and loose, (jumpy) tuning pins I was wondering if there was anyway to SEE any indicators of loose tuning pins. I was thinking of asking the seller if I could tune a few notes to see how the pins are moving in the block but I think he will refuse. So, are there any ways to SEE indicators of loose tuning pins/bad pin-block without trying to feel how the pins move during a tune?
Thanks! I'm going to look at it on Saturday. One piano is for $375 and another is for $500. I'm just afraid the seller thinks he has something in great condition when it really isn't. I suppose I'll let you know how it goes. In the meantime, happy Thanksgiving!
Yamaha pianos are very consistently high quality so they are definitely a good piano to invest in. If you have enough in your budget for a new Yamaha, it would be a good piano.
I agree that you can't go wrong with a Yamaha but buying new isn't necessarily the best choice - there are excellent slightly used ones for much less than new. Keep an eye on Craig's list for a U1 which is the best bang for the buck, and most importantly, don't buy anything without having it inspected by a technician (not your music teacher).
Don't buy a spinet or a small piano. They were made after the 2nd world war and not many are high quality. Its a bad compromise when they made smaller pianos to placate folks after they returned from the war. You want the big sound that comes from a full size upright. The best quality is usually from1910- 1930, believe it or not. Next looks. If it is scratched, gouged etc leave it where it sits because refinishing is a lot of work only suitable in the summer when you can use that messy toxic stripper. Not for amateurs.
I actually like the sound of a spinet in the bass range - the shorter string length has a certain low midrange "growl" whose harmonics aren't overpowered by the body of the fundamental with longer strings.
Thanks much for this video. It really helped me in my recent inspection of a 1999 Kawai UST-7 console offered at $1000. Your advice enabled me to determine that it was worth paying a tuner to inspect the piano after me. The tuner looked at it and told me to snap it up, so three days later it arrived in my living room. The move was 85 miles from a nearby city, so that cost quite a bit extra, but the piano was priced well below its probable worth. Nothing is certain until the piano is tuned in a week and a half from now, but I'm optimistic that I made a real find.
One thing I've learned from extensive use of Craigslist to buy a variety of items: people have all kinds of reasons for the prices they set. So just because the price may seem suspiciously low, as on the piano I purchased, don't necessarily be afraid of it. Someone may just be trying to get what cash they can quickly, because they are selling the house, or they just may not know better, lots of possible reasons.
In my area (Western Canada) what I see is that people think every Kawaii, Yamaha, and Heintzmann (a well regarded canadian make) is worth bank, and that everything else is not. Which is weird, because it means those are overpriced, and everything else is reasonably priced. It's interesting to see these patterns.
I have purchased two pianos from Estate auctions, One was a 1990 Wurlitzer (USA) and the other a 1983 Story & Clark (USA)... both of them cost next to nothing to buy, and played properly after a cleaning and tuning. No disrespect to Piano dealers, but there's a TON of warning videos that discourage buying used pianos from anyone other than a dealer/technician.... THIS video gives good advice with no fear-mongering.
MY advice from being a tuner and general instrument technician... LIVING ROOM pianos are greatly preferred to Basement Pianos... if the environment the piano was kept in is/was of stable humidity the piano should be in a moderately good health. People don't want a too hot/too cold/too damp/too dry living space... and neither does the piano.
Great series of videos enabled me to turn a $50 piece of wood with bad sound into a beautiful, working piano. And I have a new set of skills to boot!
It's great to hear that you were able to make practical use of our videos!
Some good information but one of the most important points which is checking for what techs refer to as tight centers was omitted. Each individual part is mounted on a little wooden hinge who's center pin can be too tight to work properly and cause sluggish or sticking notes. There is a fix but it can be expensive as there are at least 264 pins which will need repair. Here's how to check for them - press and hold down the sustain pedal (the one on the right) then softly play several notes. If they don't operate smoothly, there may be trouble afoot. If everything seems OK, it's time to get a technician to have a look, he will check for other problems and can usually help with establishing a fair price.
Yes, this is a common problem with pianos.
Yes, that can be the case that the seller has overpriced the piano. On Craigslist you will see pianos that are overpriced and pianos that are a great deal. With experience you learn how to tell the difference. It's difficult because the seller often times doesn't know how to evaluate what their piano should be priced at. I'm hoping to soon make some videos on evaluating the pricing on actual pianos on Craigslist.
Hi Adrian, In ,many cases a seller would be willing to let you check the tuning pins, especially if the piano hasn't been tuned for a long time and is already somewhat out of tune. If you just check a single string of a unison you should be able to get it back to where it was fairly easily. You can do this on several notes throughout the range of the piano and get a general idea of the tuning pin tightness. You can look at the general condition of the action parts. You want to check the spacing of the hammers to see if they are evenly spaced and that all the notes respond. Many of the action things can be fixed though. If you try and not get something that is too old, this will help also. If the piano is less than about 40 years old, this is something to start with. If you're looking at pianos that are 60, 70 years or more old the parts will be in pretty rough shape in many cases.
I appreciate your very helpful videos! These tips make me way more knowledgeable in my piano techy abilities!
The last time I bought a piano from Craigslist, the people had it halfway out the door by the time I got onto their front porch.
Red flag, aye?
The player vacuum pump within it (which is what I wanted for another piano) was worth the $80 I paid, even if the piano had a mouse problem.
On the bright side, now I get to learn how to replace the various felts. Maybe then I can sell it for a profit.
I understand the part of checking to see if any note is more out of tune than the others. I also understand the part of checking for cracks in the sound board. I'm just wondering if there's anything else.
Hello. I am in the market of buying a used upright. I found a Yamaha m1e and a Kawai cx4, both in pretty great shape. Which one should I get?
great video, thanks!
Hi there, I'm loving your channel and I'm subscribed already and really enjoying all your videos! Thanks for sharing. I have a question: When you say to check the tone of the piano, what that means? For exemple, I bough a piano that it "was tune" in B instead of C. And it was decades that wasn't tuned. That means if I tune the piano in C it wouldn't hold the tune for long? Or that would be ok? Thanks
Hi Marcelo, It definitely is possible that the piano could be brought up to concert pitch unless the strings were not in good shape such as having too much rust or the metal in the strings is fatigued. The tone just refers to the sound of the piano. It could be overly bright or not have enough sustain or projection. Sometimes these things can be worked with, but sometimes they are structural issues with the piano.
Hi. I wondered if what was on the side of this piano was for the purpose of moving it? I have one that needs to be properly moved. Any suggestions, same size as this one in video? thanks.
Would a sticky sustaining pedal be hard to fix?
In most cases a sticking sustain pedal shouldn't be a big problem to fix, but it depends on what the cause is.
Oh man! Where are you from? Your accent sounds so Minnesotan. Northern Minnesotan? I live near the MSP airport.
Close. I'm from Wisconsin.
This makes me more temted to get a yamaha digital
Of course some digital are more better in several ways than an old upright that costs twice
Thank you sir
Thank you for sharing. I have been looking for a piano to practice tuning and regulating on. I found a decent yamaha for $200, which I thought was good, but when I started calling movers I was quoted between $250 and $395 for moving it. All together it's more than I wanted to spend. Any advice on finding affordable movers?
$200 for a decent used Yamaha is a very good deal. Even by the time you add on the moving fee, you've still gotten a good piano for a very good price. If you don't have enough to spend that much on a piano, you may want to think if you have a friend who may have a trailer that would help you move the piano. I know in some areas this is harder than in other areas. Just make sure that if you move it yourself that you strap it down well. Unfortunately piano movers aren't cheap. If you have a "Two Men and A Truck" franchise in your area, this may be a more affordable way to get the piano moved. Around here you can get a piano moved by them for around $175 depending on how far it's going.
Thank you for responding. I took your advice and adjusted my expectations. I bought the piano which turned out to be m-500 in pristine condition! Even after paying for the movers I got a great yamaha for less than $500!
Loose tuning pins can mean as ye porb know Steve, a dried out wrestplank (what we call the pinblock here in Britain usually).
C. Beachstein and they're pre-1902 Model V upright if I'm recalling that right, can be known with central hearing to have the plank dry out and cause the pins to become very loose and not hold a tuning properly unless ye install a modern multi-laminate wrestplank which is much better with a modern centrally heated house.
Of course many other pianos like the late 19th Century English Birdcage pianos, what that guy David I showed ye his website refers to as the Cottage Industry pianos.
They're really bad for goin all wonky out of tune after 100 years because many times they weren't that well made to start with and alot of em are either 3/4 frame with an open-faced pinblock or they might even be wooden frame in some of the very, very old pianos which then ye really have to watch with what room and climate ye put em in.
My 1920's Hayes upright which ye can see on my channel didn't go out of tune that badly as it was a better quality overstrung upright, as ye say pretty in tune with herself but still out of tune but the whole piano shifted a semitone flat all at the same rate.
Whereas my very fist straight-strung upright was also a semitone flat but the treble section was way out compared to the bass section and being a smaller piano, the bass strings were very short and tubby sounding as the straight strung's generally weren't as long strings as a cross strung.
thanks
Okay. I have an appointment to meet with someone in my city to buy their used upright piano. Since I'm trying to replace an upright with a bad pin-block and loose, (jumpy) tuning pins I was wondering if there was anyway to SEE any indicators of loose tuning pins. I was thinking of asking the seller if I could tune a few notes to see how the pins are moving in the block but I think he will refuse. So, are there any ways to SEE indicators of loose tuning pins/bad pin-block without trying to feel how the pins move during a tune?
Thanks! I'm going to look at it on Saturday. One piano is for $375 and another is for $500. I'm just afraid the seller thinks he has something in great condition when it really isn't. I suppose I'll let you know how it goes. In the meantime, happy Thanksgiving!
👍🏻
Where did you get the dolly to move it around? can you rent one somewhere?
This is a dolly I purchased for moving pianos. It is called the Roll or Kari system. It makes moving pianos very easy.
We now sell these dollies on our website: www.howardpianoindustries.com/roll-or-kari-piano-moving-dolly-set/
Is it worth to buy a brand new entry level Yamaha for $5000?
Yamaha pianos are very consistently high quality so they are definitely a good piano to invest in. If you have enough in your budget for a new Yamaha, it would be a good piano.
I agree that you can't go wrong with a Yamaha but buying new isn't necessarily the best choice - there are excellent slightly used ones for much less than new. Keep an eye on Craig's list for a U1 which is the best bang for the buck, and most importantly, don't buy anything without having it inspected by a technician (not your music teacher).
hey, i was going to buy that
It’s crazy how rhis comment was 2 years ago and you liked it today🤣🤣
I bought a piano on Craigslist for 100 bucks. It's an upright. And it says Estey 1891. No idea the value of it
Don't buy a spinet or a small piano. They were made after the 2nd world war and not many are high quality. Its a bad compromise when they made smaller pianos to placate folks after they returned from the war. You want the big sound that comes from a full size upright. The best quality is usually from1910- 1930, believe it or not.
Next looks. If it is scratched, gouged etc leave it where it sits because refinishing is a lot of work only suitable in the summer when you can use that messy toxic stripper. Not for amateurs.
I actually like the sound of a spinet in the bass range - the shorter string length has a certain low midrange "growl" whose harmonics aren't overpowered by the body of the fundamental with longer strings.
it would help if you could speak into a microphone instead of talking to the piano and we might be able to hear you!
I heard him just fine. Check your volume settings.