Unpacking Astarion - A Baldur's Gate 3 Deep Dive
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- I've been thinking about Baldur's Gate 3 nonstop ever since I started playing the game a month ago. Astarion is also my favorite character in case you couldn't tell. And what better way to express my undying love for a character or a game than making a video essay about it?
Supplemental Clips (because I'm a coward who didn't want to make Astarion upset or just didn't record some interactions)
• BG3: Astarion Supercut...
• Video
• Astarion drinking tain...
***CORRECTION - The vampire hunter, and the group that beat Astarion were Gur NOT gnolls. I must have had gnolls on the brain and didn't realize my mistake until playing the game last night asdfsdf
Lol that's okay
The hunter was also not sent by Cazador. He was sent by his chief who wanted Astarion to pay for his "sin" because Astarion kidnapped Gur children to Cazador. Gur were going to make him rescue the children.
Edit: There's also no confirmation that his name actually means "little star", this rumour is just from someone's post on Twitter. We may not even know if his name is his childhood name, as he grew up within the human society.
@@anttwo Ooh okay! I never got the dialogue in the game other than Astarion assuming he was sent by Cazador. I'm learning I missed a lot of stuff in my first play through. Thanks for letting me know though! That does explain the group of Gur that that was waiting on us after defeating Cazador.
I've heard that the meaning came from an interview with Niel Newbon, but I get how that may not be concrete enough evidence. You do bring up a good point about the childhood name since he grew up in a human society.
@@PocketLeaves haha, yes I thought that too (about the monster hunter). He is actually a nice man, in fact, his own daughters were captured and turned by Cazador. If he doesn't die, he reunites with his kids at the end of Astairon's quest, which has a very bittersweet ending :/
I also thought about his name, but apparently the source is from some random person's tweet. They searched about his name, which turned out there is a real Greek name "Asterion" which means "starry", allegedly, the word also has some suffix which gives it a "small/tiny" meaning, allegedly making Astarion "little star". But as I said, it is just a claim. There are others who also evaluated it from different perspectives, like the Elvish meaning. There are some possibilities of his name meaning little star, of noble son, or something else.
Hahaha I thought I was mistaken about what a gnoll was when you said that 😂 I trusted you more than myself
I want so badly to have an epilogue where we get to find a cure to vampirism and see what color eyes he has 😭
That would be really nice!!! At the very least, an epilogue where you track down and get one of those items or something that'll let him be in the sun again.
I'm hoping Larian will provide a DLC as an epilogue for each character
let my boy wear the cloak of dragomir ffs @@PocketLeaves (although with the -6 strength penalty i dont think he would be able to even lift a dagger lol)
Why would you hurt me like this
I always thought it must be a silvery blue
I did not romance Astarion, but the moment I got to that scene in Moonrise with the woman that considered him to be not only property, but also was asking us to have him bite her, and our subsequent talk at camp about how he doesn't know how to say no and how he doesn't really enjoy sex, it just hit me way harder than I thought it would.
I had this view of Astarion both from in-game interactions and what I saw from his fans, and he was always depicted as this very sexual person that seemed to enjoy every aspect of the ride, and then getting to know him and realizing that it was all a front he puts to either lure in victims for Cazador or to be safe, I just couldn't, he is now in my permanent party and I'm willing to go to hell and back for my homie.
Human balduran, when Astarion runs to become a magistrate: A yes, a perfectly mature man.
Elven Baldurans : This Is Literally A Child
I really like thought of elf tav learning Astarion is technically stuck at 39 forever and calling him a baby 😂
omg that'd be so funny. Astarion would HATE that asdfasdf
@@PocketLeaves he's like, trying to drink wine in peace and Tav goes "are you even old enough to drink that? We wouldn't want to negatively impact your growth"
That was one hell of a good analysis!
One question: the animation of the eyes and the facial expression (the eyes in particular weren't motion captured, had to be re-animated, they said in an interview, which means each movement, glance etc is planned to fit the scene and its meaning) are things you didn't mention much: too long to fit in, or a detail unnoticed?
Because after some watching of cutscenes, I noticed that in a lot of scene at the beginning, Astarion eyes look away when he offer sex.
Or whenever you go "off script" with him, by asking him what he wants, and offering kindness. Like he's taken aback and has to quickly figure out which of his repertoire of lines to use, to manipulate you again.
It's clearest in the morning after the first romp, where if you ask if it was alright for him, you see him think, you see him search for an answer that would "satisfy" and then smirk when he thinks he managed to find a good one and give it to you.
It's a small detail, but it just support a lot of your analysis, and it's such a cool detail that Larian made the effort to put in!
Ooh, that is a good detail!! I have a hard time reading facial expressions for what they're supposed to be or mean sometimes, so it wasn't something I was fully confident in analyzing. But I really appreciate you bringing it up here!! I didn't know they had to reanimate the faces though!
@@PocketLeaves not the full face but the iris mouvements (make sense, can't slap a sticky sensor in someone's eye xD)
But yeah, they really went full stop on so many details
A new birthdate! All this time, I've been wondering what the hell he carved on the grave stone. For that little tinbit of information alone, I'm
hitting the subscribe button, thank you.
Forever thanking the people who spend the time translating the fantasy languages in these games!
This is so good?? Why does it have so few views?? Anyways, I am now in love with your video style. And you have the most infectious laugh omg.
Very excited to find another ace to support.
In my first game, i actually fully misinterpreted him as being canonically ace. Even if it only lives in my headcannon, i really appreciate that larian showed a character like astarion (who looks and plays the part of a shameless flirt), who learns and ultimatly enforces his own boundires in the bedroom, eventually. The game refuses to let the player pretend like astarion wants/is ready for a "typical" romantic+sexual relationship, refuses to pretend like the player's love is some magical trauma cure. He's so messy, and I love it.
When this hour and half beauty dropped on my reccomended i knew i tailored my UA-cam just right
I was waiting so patiently to see someone make an analysis on this vampire loser. I WANTED THIS SO BADLY FOR SO LONG
I know it's not canon to the games, but there was a D&D Live Play one-shot where the Voice Actors played their characters, and Astarion had a Fangirl moment meeting Drizzt Do'Urden. Maybe he hasn't given up on heroes entirely.
Omg this video literally changed my life! I didn’t really care about Bg3 before but after watching this I absolutely fell in love with Astarion and consequently the game! Now I have over 200 hours in it, and for only having it a few weeks, is safe to say I am completely obsessed! Thank you for making this amazing video! I also love your other Bg3 videos!
Can I just say that I think your laugh is adorable
I was listening to this during a long drive and every time you laughed I smiled a little cause it just sounds so sweet
Anyway love the video analysis
Gonna go get my feelings hurt by little star now
Nobody is commenting on this, but thank you for being part of the Astarion is Asexual headcanon. I'm ace-spec and my personal theory is that Astarion is demisexual and panromantic. He's obviously into kissing and having relationships, but sex is not something he really goes for until he has a genuine bond with someone. It's a slow burn for him.
Quick note I did not romance Astarion, so my perspective is wanting my TAV to be everyone's best friend and to help everyone on their personal issues for closure.
Its a shame that if you do the artist quest in Baldur's Gate and get a portrait of Astarion that he doesn't have a dialogue option to recognize it. They even have a voice acting line that could already apply "This is a gift, I won't forget it" or something similar.
I wish Larian Studios gave us *more* opportunities to give the companions hugs, even just platonic hugs. Astarion really needed one after ending Cazador, Wyll could have used one after Mizora curses him with horns, Gale needs one when Elminster delivers Mystra's first message, Shadowheart needs one after she rejects Shar, Karlach needs as many as she can get. I even gave the "Guardian" - the Emperor- a hug before I knew who he really was and what he had done.
You make really great points here, it's a great video, but I also gotta say, your laugh is just the sweetest thing !
feel you, I'm also trying to fix me. I heard about the game for a while but only bought it when I saw the plot of Astarion.
I shall patiently await for the playthrough adjustments for Dark Urge playthrough, but also the more information given if you play as Astarion (he has nightmares T_T)
I just started a dark urge run!!! Oof, I really want to do an Astarion run, so that I can finally romance Karlach or Wyll, but also extra insight on him will be so good! I've seen the first nightmare though.
DAMMIT, I’m taking the weekend to go ham on this game (not like I haven’t been staying up until 2am anyway just to get my cutscene fix w this man😭) bc I gotta stop the video at act 2 im so close rn just cheesing balthazar when I get home and then HOPEFULLY FINALLY doing moonrise. But I’m so glad there are sm Astarion fans and yes he’s absolutely a sweetheart 😭😭
A great video, nothing to add. Just wanted to say your laugh is so cute, I smiled every time you giggled.
Thank you!!
This was AMAZING to listen to while ironing. Did I spend way too much time doing it just so I could listen to the entire one? Maybe.
asdfasd thank you! Glad you got some ironing done!
YOU CAN HELP HIM OUT DURING THE FIGHT??? I JUST HAD TO BEAT IT IN 2 ROUNDS
astarion deserves all the love in the world.
I’m gonna put the idea out there: Astarion will join the next Smash! 🤩🤯
The only time I got with astarian was with the drow twins. I was always respectful of him up until then. We got along but zero romance. He was very chill about it
Great video! I enjoyed it all
A couple notes:
1. There's no R in Neil Newbon's name. - But yes, as someone who was fortunate enough to meet the man just yesterday, he's definitely got max. charisma. XD
2. He mentions being a magistrate, yes... but also, all you have to do is look at the background they assigned to him (Charlatan) to know that story is.... well... dubious or incomplete at best. This is right up there with the fact that the game plays off his vampirism as if it's a mystery, despite his red eyes, pale skin, and fangs in the "Really? How did ANYONE not see this coming?" category to me. lol
Yeah, I had been misreading his name for a few months when the game first came out.
The magistrate point is supported with references to Astarions past experience working with the law if you play as him. You can offer to look over Wyll's contract with Mizora to look for legal loopholes. But I do think the popular head canons of him becoming a magistrate through nepotism is really funny and pretty likely. Also the reason he was jumped by the gur which led to him getting turned into a vampire was because of a ruling he passed as magistrate. I feel like that point is pretty well tied to his back story, and his background is more so the past 200 years as a vampire, which would have more of an affect on him than the first 39 years or so of his life.
@@PocketLeaves 1. I do hope the name correction didn't come across snarky or anything. I didn't think of it that way until I saw your reply. It was meant in the most friendly/respectful way possible.
2. I also didn't mean that he wasn't a magistrate - he clearly was - what I'm saying is the joke about a vampire in the court room makes it sound like those parts of his life had more overlap than I understood them to have. If that were the case I would expect he'd have a different background that would be more tied to his magistrate work. When I see 'charlatan' that, to me, says those days are far behind him (likely pre-being turned) and he's now being characterized by his more recent life as a con-man hunting victims for Cazador (and no doubt using the cultured, sophisticated persona he honed from his days in high society to gain their trust to do so.) I was more saying "he WAS a magistrate.... but those days seem to be well behind him now."
Anyway, well done video nonetheless, and thanks for the thoughtful response. Keep up the great work. :)
my guy,, lesser restoration removes the debuff just get a hireling and have them cast it on you every day
I have since found the amulet, and use that on all my play throughs, but I hadn't considered a hireling just for that!
@@PocketLeaveshiring someone specifically for juiceboxery is a hilarious idea tbh
This was great!!!
Thank you!!!!!
When you watch a video essay about Astarion on valentines day with your gf because he's a meow-meow for both of you
On the subject of Ascended Astarion.. I really don't personally see anywhere in the game where it implies he is putting on a mask, I mean he doesn't really have a reason to do that, why would he? Tav already trusts him, he doesen't have any reason to hide his personality from them . His personality changes compared to the way it does in the spawn ending yes, (I would disagree on the notion that he just reverts to himself from act 1, at least if you romanced him.) he's getting used to all the new power. but there's a lot more nuance there especially if you romance him and I didn't really get a sense that he doesn't love the mc at any point.
My first run where I romanced Astarion I ascended him and tbh I really enjoyed it. I understand that it isn't for everyone, but from my personal experience, I knew what I was getting into from the start, and I really enjoyed, probably one of my favorite video game romances of all time. I loved the pet names, the way he talks, the confidence, the way whole dynamic of becoming an vampire consort. And he does come off as genuinely in love with you, if a bit possessive depending on what dialogue you chose. But I will admit I am into That Kind of Thing , and honestly AA from what is shown in game is much more vanilla than the way people talk about that route. Cazador 2.0. he is simply not, that's for fan-fiction.
I understand that people get really attached to spawn Astarion's story, and it is a very well written story, it's important to many people I get it.. but I noticed there is this constant tendency I noticed to make out ascended Astarion into something worse than it is, dismissing it as something only for evil runs, etc. I don't feel like that's fair, there is a very large segment of people who love ascended Astrarion and may even prefer him and I don't like how everyone basically tells us we are playing the game wrong or misunderstood his arc or whatever. both are valid endings for the character, and it can get really frustrating to constantly feel like you need to defend yourself every time discussion about a character you love come up in the fandom.
That's fair! I'm sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you or other Ascended Astarion lovers! When I say wrong or bad ending, that's with in the framework of what I believe the narrative of the game, not that it's an ending that shouldn't be played out and explored. I do think the Cazador 2.0 thought comes from when you don't ascend him, and he talks about being swept up in the greed for power just like Cazador was. And just everything about DnD vampires, and the fact that Cazador was just a guy stuck in the head of a monster (when you detect thoughts on him before getting him out of the coffin you see a scared man wishing for death to end the cycle of terror) And also taking Cazador's past into consideration, and the idea that he technically treated Astarion better than Vellioth treated him, and many assume Ascended Astarion has that same outlook on how he treats Tav. Surely he's treating Tav well because it's not as bad as he was treated. It's up to you how you interpret your relationship with Ascended Astarion, but the game does make a point to say that Tav doesn't have freedom in the epilogue, which for some would be a really important aspect of that dynamic. I am glad though that this game has provided a safe way for you to explore those more toxic and possessive relationships though! I can see the appeal to exploring those dynamics. I did enjoy reading your experiences with ascending him! I'm doing an ascended Astarion run on an evil play through (it's the only Tav/Durge I've made so far where it would be in character to sacrifice the 7,007 souls for power), and I've been really nervous about how Astarion will act after ascension. I do know you can still pick options that pleases him to avoid the worst of what that route has to offer in terms of his character, but what I've seen borders on triggering asdfasdfa. I am kind of excited to see the pet names! Question though, does Ascended Astarion retain any of the silly theatrical guy that Spawn Astarion is?
@@PocketLeaves Hmm idk If can compare exactly but i think so? . He is definitely a more pompous and arrogant, theatrical would be one way to describe him I think . I'm not actually sure if his non romance specific dialogue / party banter changes much though? would have to do a spawn run side by side to see for sure and i dont rly have pre-epilouge saves from the last time I did that to compare. He is still his snarky self either way from what I have seen, though I'll admit the only time I did a full spawn run as of this moment was without romancing him.
and yeah I totally can see how it would be triggering, he doesn't take rejection well (though neither do a lot of companions tbh) and there's a few epilogue lines that are genuinely scary (neil is a very good actor as ever). IMO those options are more there if you want to roleplay that kind of dark relationship and wont nesseralily be always canon but still. def important to prioritize ur own health when it comes to it, I understand that it isn't for everyone.
Sébastien trauma is not Excuse
I am a Astarian stand and I haven't played the game yet
First of al, He's vampire spawn, not an actual vampire. you use this interchangably but it matters. They are not nearly as powerful.
honestly, I liked Astarion a lot more before I played through his entire character arc. Yes the revenge on Cazador, he deserved that, he has experienced a lot of cruelty. But honestly after he ascended he's just as power hungry as Cazador. If the roles were reversed, and Astarion was a true vampire with a palace, then I doubt he'd be much better than him. But this could also be because he's been through all that.
And I think many many people would have let Astarion have his revenge, it also helps Caz is a giant @sshole.
Honestly, I didn't want to let Astarion ascend at first and disrupt the ritual but if you fail the dice roll then he gets hostile with you and you have to kill him. The dice roll gets much much harder if you disrupt the ritual instead of talking him out of it first.
There is no way you can tell me that Astarions character design wasn't based of the works of Robin Wates drawings of Robinton from Dragonriders of Pern I will not buy it!
As a victim of SA, I deeply identify with Astarion. My first boyfriend treated me like an object to be used. Every time I tried to set a boundary, he'd ignore it. And every time I tried to call him out on that, he'd pretend to feel bad about it, only to go right back to it a few days later. He told me he cared, but he didn't. He just wanted me for my body. It got to the point where I gave up trying to stand up for myself. I resigned myself to his wishes, no matter how uncomfortable it made me feel. I became afraid to say no. I knew I needed to break up with him but I was afraid of what he'd do to me if I tried. Once I finally did work up the courage to break up with him, I still had to hide behind a screen to do it, because I was afraid of what he'd do if I did it in person. And every time I went anywhere, I was constantly looking over my shoulder to make sure he wasn't following me. Every time I went to church, I had to look around for him so I could make sure to sit as far away from him as possible. I was even checking over my shoulder in places where it made no logical sense for him to be there. It was awful.
Once I went off to college I'd finally healed enough to be open to the idea of dating again, but I also wasn't actively looking for a partner. And I wasn't comfortable with any kind of intimacy yet. But I was open to the idea of potentially being romantically involved with someone should the occasion arise. And about a year after starting college, I met someone who I could tell was genuinely interested in me. I wasn't particularly interested in him in that way at the time, but I wasn't quite sure if it was because he just wasn't my type or because my trauma had shut off my sex drive. But as we got to know each other, I started developing feelings for him. He would walk me home from work so I wouldn't have to walk home alone in the dark. During those walks we talked about our interests, our hopes and dreams, how each other's day had gone, etc. And we had a lot in common. It soon got to the point where he asked me on a date. I said yes, but told him I wasn't ready to rush into anything serious yet. He said the same. So we went on a date, and the date went quite well. On the second date, I opened up to him a little about my past relationship, and the emotional scars I had as a result. He opened up to me a little about some of his previous traumas as well. And at the end of it he surprised me with my favorite fruit, which is particularly difficult to come by where I live. The third date was when we officially became a couple. Even then, we took things really slow. He respected the boundaries I set as far as what I was comfortable with doing. Every time we tried something new he always checked in with me to make sure I felt comfortable with it before proceeding. Every time I asked if we could slow down, he'd slow down. He taught me what a healthy relationship was supposed to look like. He taught me how to trust again. We recently mutually decided to end the relationship due to realizing our goals were taking us in different directions, but we're still friends. And the fact that he helped me learn how to trust again, that's the greatest gift anyone has ever given me. He helped me heal. He helped me realize that my boundaries matter. That my opinions and emotions are valid. That I'm more than a thing to be used. And that's something I'll never forget.
I'm sorry to hear that. I'm glad you're in a better place now!
You both seem like really mature people and I honestly respect that as those are super rare to come by. Wish you both a great future
Your story is so similar to mine with my ex. I hope someday I’ll feel safe enough to love people again. I’m almost done with my 1st year of college and I’m hoping being away from home will help me heal.
man why are we like the same person but im still in peak trauma mode 😭 your story does give me hope it gets better tho 🫶
It's nice that a game out there actually assigns PTSD as a debuff, it is a debuff IRL 😭
Underrated and unfortunately very true comment 😩😂
Underrated and unfortunately very true comment 😩😂
IM WHEEZING YES XD
I think his average charisma is just because he's so clearly a vampire :') Like it's impressive that even though most people seeing him would at least suspect he's a vampire and they still find him equally trustworthy and attractive as a normal person. Basically being a vampire gives him a huge debuff on his charisma and his natural/practiced charm compensates for it
Ooh, that's an interesting take! He is so clearly a vampire, but in his defense, he probably doesn't know how obvious he looks.
@@PocketLeaves He's also a little clumsy when it comes to reading people. His charisma is taught, it sounds like he is still in high Balduran society even when he's rolling in the mud. Like a parrot who can only repeat certain phrases: it sounds very compelling and brings a smile on your face, but it doesn't contain much weight.
Vampires do have the ability to charm others, which is how they mask their so-called 'charisma debuff', and it seems like Astarion parrots that too, in the same way kids learn how to speak by mimicing their surroundings before fully understanding what it means. Astarion speaks sweetly and courtly because it's all he knows how to do. And when he opens up, he becomes a lot less whimsical and actually struggles a bit with finding the right words sometimes.
I honestly just think it's gameplay and story segregation. Stats can't necessarily be as high as they would be to correspond to real life skills because the point system doesn't work like that. Plus his default class is an arcane trickster rogue so it's clear that his stats are optimized towards DEX, INT, and CON with STR as the dump stat and WIS/CHA as mediocre. He literally does have proficiency in Performance though, which is sadly useless in the majority of cases bc most performance checks are bard related lol
Abusers like Casador direct their anger more of those they are threatened by or are jealous of. Astarion has a gift for words, he is charismatic, and probably the life of the party. Always able to steal the spotlight. Casador saw this and did everything to make him small and scared. Having gone through an abusive relationship myself it was hard to watch while playing the game. So easy to relate to. #astarionstan
You're pretty spot on!
I do hope you're on a better place now. But yeah, sometimes Astarion's story resonates a bit too much ahdhsgsfsff
@@PocketLeaves Thank you! I am! Left my abuser over 2 years ago and playing BG3 (and romancing Astarion) really brought up feelings of trauma I lived through and was trying to navigate through. I do feel like he resonates with so many people who have been SA'd or physically abused because felt many of the feelings he talks about with you. And confronting the abuser face of in the game was just....so many feels. Loved your video essay on him! :)
Next playthrough, don't go to Cazador right after Dal tells you where the ritual take place. You actually miss probably one of Astarion's more vulnerable moments. Cazador sends Astarion's siblings after him. Astarion tries to get his siblings on his side (you can help by either persuading or deceiving them), but they are overcome by Cazador's control. After the fight, Astarion at first try to act like he isn't bothered by the attack, but as you talk to him, it becomes clear that he is. Most videos I've seen, if you get the siblings on your side, the response he gives is how no one looked out for him except you before trying to justify his contemplation of doing the ritual that he's doing it to protect you. If you remain silent and don't convince the siblings, you get another option where you ask him if it's true that he gave up, and he says "You don't know what it was like! There was no way out" before telling you about how he was locked in a coffin for a year. To me, this is the most painful and vulnerable scene. Not only is the one place he's felt safe been invaded, but the safety of the one person who he's ever been cared about. You realize that doing this ritual for him is his attempt to grab control in a situation where he has none or so little. As someone who has found herself in such a situation, I can sympathize with Astarion.
YES! I've realized I missed a lot by rushing to Cazador's. I will be slowing down and making sure I don't miss anything on my other play throughs (I've already got a couple other solo runs I've started asdfasd) Geeze, that does sound really sad though. I had seen clips of the conversation afterwards, and wasn't sure what people did to trigger that. Glad to know now!
@@PocketLeaves I think it takes about 5 or so sleeps to trigger after you speak with Dal.
Edit: One thing, I don’t think the death of Cazador is technically the first time Astarion has cried, but I do think it’s the first time he’s not tried to hold back his tears. I think the scene I mentioned he’s close to crying or is actually crying, but he’s trying not to.
In that fight, there’s also another outcome in where Astarion does get kidnapped by his siblings. You can still control him so long as he was in your party. When you take over his character, he’s in The Kennels with Godey and you get a very interesting scene.
@@IIIGioGioStarIII Oh god. Yes, but you thankfully have to be really bad at fighting for that to happen. I know it's the closest to seeing what Astarion went through, but it breaks my heart to see it.
@@IIIGioGioStarIII I've seen clips of the Godey scene in edits! I was wondering how that got triggered, since I never saw it when exploring the place and encountering Godey.
Everyone who is a voluntary juicebox, lesser restoration cures bloodless, and there is an amulet in the druid grove that you can steal easily, under a rock by the fishing bear, that can cast lesser restoration once a day.
IT'S IN THE GROVE?!!!!!!!! Thank you! I'm so stingy about spell slots, I've just been vibing with the debuff hoping I'd come across that amulet.
It sounds great and I did that for a bit but yeah it's annoying to upkeep so I just dealt with the bloodless thing. Sucked for dump stats but hey worth it!
37:07 In the script that scene is called 'ForcedSex' (aka Rape)...
1:15:20 I like to think they just had a cuddle but I am Ace and I guess all my PCs are Ace too
1:19:27 He says: "You are Defective. Broken. Doomed." The defective and broken part really gets me. Many victims of abuse feel exactly like that. And as a victim herself, Karlach probably feels like that too. Even more with her engine. It's so cruel. Maybe the most evil line in the entire game.
1:23:40 On the character sheet that comes with the digital deluxe edition Astarions background is literally 'Courtesan' (prostitute).
There is a nice little detail in his romance dialogs that I don't see many people talk about. You can ask him what he wants three times. He will give you different answers depending on his progress in his own story.
At first when you spend the night together; he will deflect ('what we all want...').
The second time when you get the love confession; he will answer that he doesn't know what he wants.
The last time you can only get with the non-ascension route. When you ask him at the graveyard he will answer: 'You. I want you.'
I also want to point out how adorable and supportive Astarion is of Dark Urge, especially if you resist the murderhobo way. I never was into romance as a genre but I make an exception for Durge x Astarion.
I did not know that about the script. That's so upsetting. Extra glad he ends things with the player at that point then.
The journey and growth shown through Astarion's romance dialogue, especially the different answers to the same question, is so !!!!!!!!!!! He means so much. I've been hearing a lot about how sweet he is if you play dark urge, and I did start a dark urge run to see it for myself.
@@PocketLeavesHe is amazing with a Durge character. I don't think I'll ever play a "normal" one. I landed at a drow Durge sorceress. That is now my life. 😂
The drow has some funny dialogue options. Like telling a tiefling boy that drow kill more kids than "we" enslave. 😂 And the goblins are freaked out by my mere presence. It's hillarious.
And Astarion is...perfect. As always.
As a dude I’m not really into astarion but I got curious and romanced him, eventually I got to that scene where you can say you wanna be friends and the fact he says “I’ve never had a friend that would be nice” I almost cried
Normally video games don't get to me. When the act 2 romance scene plays. The one where you hug Astarion. I was shocked. Astsrion was sexually abused by Cazador. Now there's an option for you to do it.
I shouted "what the *uck". I usually don't swear. So that's an accomplishment.
Slight correction but I don't think he has the Courtesan background, at least not according to D&D Beyond's official character sheet for him. He has the Charlatan (Baldur's Gate) background instead, from the sourcebook Baldur's Gate Gazetteer.
*MINOR SPOILER FOR DIALOGUE DIFFERENCES*
At the teifling/goblin party, depending on who youve sided with obviously, when your flirting with Astarion you get the option to make him say "please". Its a very flirty fun interaction in general but theres a small difference in how he delivers his response. At the teifling party your assumidly playing a good character and so when you "demand" he say please, he responds with a playful sounding "what?". At the goblin party, same dialogue, hell give you a more tense serious "what?" In response to the demand. Its a very, very small stupid detail but it seemsd like he was actually kind of scared of me in my evil playthrough. He didnt approve necessarily of helping out the teiflings but he isnt like, gunning for their demise 😅
OMG thank you for this comparison!
There's actually a lot of merit in the idea that Astarion is scared or at least intimidated by evil Tav. If you sleep with him at these parties, there's a key difference between the two: when the "pillow talk" scene takes place. If you hook up at the tiefling party, Tav wakes up in the morning to find Astarion still there, basking in the sun. At the Goblin party, its still night time when they wake up. It may not seem like a big deal but the implication here is that Astarion felt safe enough with good Tav to stay with them all night into the morning, while he did not with evil Tav.
There's also a change in dialogue for Tav; good Tav can ask him "not staying to cuddle?" While evil Tav has a different option in place of that one asking where he's going (implying he was likely going to sneak away back to camp rather than sleep next to them). My takeaway is that while he may not be morally perturbed by the goblin raid (horrific cruelty is just another tuesday for him), he IS uneasy about evil Tav and seems to be remaining vigilant that their abuse never gets turned around on him.
Though if you have a tiefling tav, you don't get the whole him lounging on a bedroll flirtatiously like a few rests in . I play mostly tiefling mad even orcs get it.😂 Halflings too....but nah tieflings have a harder time proving themselves to him and getting the romance. But be sarcastic and he loves it, so there is that
Astarion's laugh lines are probably because he's always telling himself little jokes and making himself laugh. Also there are scenes where he laughs nervously, or even in fear, like when you break the news about ceremorphosis to him. As someone who also has a laugh response to fear and pain I get that vibe from him
When playing, I knew about the Astarion voice line when going to the brothel and tried to trigger it but when I went he asked me sheepishly something to the affect of “you aren’t doing this only because we haven’t in a while are you?” AND CAN I SAY THAT MADE MY HEART MELT AND I WANTED TO CRY BECAUSE I NEED TO PROTECT HIM AT ALL COSTS. Anyways I don’t know how I didn’t get the voiceline, my only thought is that our relationship was excellent by the time I got to the brothel
I believe the more playful voice line won't trigger until after the Cazador fight.
You can get that line from Astarion if Halsin tries to romance you in Act 3, there's an exchange with Astarion to ask permission since Halsin will romance you if you are with others. He doesn't mind sharing but wants you to get permission from whomever you are with.
I ship Astarion with The Dark Urge, their stories parallel in so many ways. Forced to do violent things by abusive parental figures and trying to reconcile with that, not knowing who they were before everything happened, I also just found out the Durge was also locked inside a coffin like object for a long period of time. In the mind flayer colony you find a broken pod full of Durge's dried blood from them injuring themselves trying to get out. They were locked in there for at least days if not weeks or months.
It's also great seeing Astarion learn that taking care of someone else can be a healing experience by itself ehich he discovers when you're compelled to kill your lover in Act 2 as resist Durge
I feel like if Spawn Astarion realized Ascending would make him even so much as **consider** wanting to turn the player character (Tav/Durge or Origin) into his spawn, that would immediately snap him out of his desire. I am very much firmly of the belief that pre-ascension, he would never ever in a million years want to subjugate his "darling" the way he was, even if he isn't as directly cruel or torturous. He's apparently more insistent upon Ascending if you romance him VS when you're friends and I think there's a part of him genuinely terrified of the world not just for himself, but for his partner too. It's sad and deeply tragic that when you Ascend him, he becomes the thing he feared. The choice to have him call you "consort" rather than "wife/husband/partner" is no coincidence either. Yes, it's gender-neutral and saves Larian having to rerecord the lines but unlike "lover" it denotes a power-imbalance. A consort is the usually lower-born spouse/partner of a monarch. The message is clear; you are no longer his equal, he is the power, and the man who earnestly told your character they were incredible is gone. It's very sad to me, I can't do it to him.
Ascended Astarion does offer to turn Tav by letting them drink his blood and being on equal footing.
@@kimanirobinson790 thats turning you into his spawn. It is not equal at all, he has full control over you the same way Cazador had over him once your tadpole is gone. He says this directly several times.
I’m finishing my first playthrough and let Astarion ascend because he was pushing for it so heavily. My character was fully on his side to let him make his own choices and she perceived his choice as being to ascend.
Then he turned her into his spawn, and I’m so incredibly like, mixed on how he acts towards my character after ascending. He had framed the desire to ascend in one cutscene as wanting to do it for the both of them so he could protect my character too and now he’s treating her like an object.
As a player and as someone who, while I never experienced sexual trauma I still have trauma, it’s hard to believe his character would turn into the thing he feared the most. I think ascended Astarion for me is the epitome of “I was hurt so I’m going to hurt you” whereas spawn Astarion will eventually hit the “I’ve been hurt so I’m not going to hurt you”
THANK YOU GIRL!! astarion is probably one of my favorite characters of all time and the journey he's able to go on is just so incredibly cathartic and amazing. The way all these survivors of abuse manage to break out of the cycle of violence is some of the best story telling I've ever seen. And playing as the dark urge is just us fixing each other it makes me so soft
YES!! I just started a dark urge run, and I'm so excited about it!
@@PocketLeaves sincerely fair warning, it gonna make you even crazier about Astarion. Like, make you wanna make a whole new video crazy lmao it changes the dynamic SO much with him and it is in my *humble* opinion, one of the best ways to play the game
Yes
I hc that after Tav (using the name since it’s default MC name) and Astarion first do the unsynchronized dry bed swimming, because he is trying to seduce and manipulate Tav, they do it almost every night and even during the day when they have a chance. Mainly because he believes that it is the only way to protect himself. And during that time, he starts to realize that the plan is failing because he’s starting to catch feels.
And then when Astarion confronts Tav about his feelings about them and sex, with the romance route, Tav hugs him and reassures that they can go at his pace. And the for the first night, Astarion is laying in his bed roll with Tav. Both of them talking about boundaries and how Tav can respect his bodily autonomy. Like asking if they can kiss him, if he’s okay with hugs and things like that. And that it’s perfectly fine for him to reestablish those boundaries. Tav telling Astarion that he is enough as he is (although he may not believe it). And they just talk for a good chunk of the night until they both fall asleep. And it’s the first time he has shared a bed with someone and not end up intertwined in their body.
I LOVE THAT! It makes the change of pace and establishment of boundaries a lot more tender, and supports why he's so nervous to have that conversation with Tav. (this is also the first time I've ever heard anyone call that unsynchronized dry bed swimming and I unironically love that phrase that's so funny)
@@PocketLeaves Thanks. I just love that with Astarion's story it shows the other side of the coin with SA. The side where the victim of SA, instead of how many people act that all SA survivors will hate sex and refuse it because of it being a means for them to protect themselves from losing power over their body and to prevent themselves from being in that situation... Astarion shows the other side where SA survivors do also use sex and not have bounderies for the same reason. Because in their mind, they are like, "Since I am allowing it, I cannot be hurt by this unless if I let it hurt". Both sides are to the extreme and I do love that Astarion shows the other side of the coin without it being done tasteless. He shows the shame and the disgust that he was doing this as a defense mechinesm and I honestly love that.
My Tav was a Paladin Tiefling Noble who had their own struggles. Started with Astarion as a fling because she felt that if she were going to die, may as well go for the least likely person. And the more she got to learn about Astarion, realized that he wasn't your average vampire. He was a person who was forced into some very dark situations. He was, in her eyes, an innocent person suffering and wanted to do what she could to help him. She had the mindset of black and white, and he introduced her that the world has a multitude of colors. Love to think that he saved her just as much as she saved him.
I am not a survivor of SA, and I am a sex repulsed aroace induvidual, so maybe I just don't get it...
...but how would Astarion ever catch feelings for someone he is actively having sex with, when that places Tav in the same camp as his previous abusers, his victims, and whoever else used him for sex?
Because that's what Tav is doing. Maybe not from their perspective, but from his. He is consenting to being used, not to have an equal experience. How could he ever start to genuinely love that person?
I can see him trauma bonding, but that is not a romance one should keep building on.
@@maximillian1109 Him falling in love with Tav comes from their actions outside of sleeping with him. It comes from their care for him as an individual, something that he's implied his previous exploits didn't really do. (tbf they were one night stand kind of deals, so it's a bit different) And I believe the biggest difference is when he does start to catch feelings, the only way to really pursue a relationship is to respect his boundaries and stop having sex. Which shows him he's more than just an object of satisfaction. He is his own person that Tav cares for beyond what he can do for them. But I can understand why it'd be hard to understand why Astarion catches feelings in the first place. tbh, I'm pretty sure even he doesn't quite get it. But when you try to talk him out of ascension at certain points of the game, he talks about how your kindness is special and no one else is like you. From the start, Tav is one of the few if not the only person to ever show him unconditional kindness and care.
I also think noticing he was disassociating during sex in the morning after scene shows him that Tav is paying attention and cares about Astarion's happiness and well being as well. That he's not a means to an end. That's just my take though!!
If you keep Astarion on the stairs and far enough away from Cazador long enough. You can kill him without snatching Astarion up.
The thing you said about fixing yourself got me.
Yes!! I did this unintentionally on my 4th attempt during my first playthrough. I basically split up my entire party so they were all in different spots (Astarion being the furthest away) because I was going to try to have Gale sneak over to the spawns to free them, but he triggered the cutscene instead & Cazador was upset because he didn't think Astarion was there. Not to worry, Caz got to find out later Astarion was there all along. 🤣
Finally finally *finally* I got a more than hour long video on Astarion
I've veen waiting for this moment ever since I learnt about his backstory, FINALLY
I didn't even mean for this video to end up this long!! I just had so much to say about him, and also wanted to provide context of his story
@@PocketLeaves and I'm so very glad you did! It was an amazing video, and I loved every second of it :)
His siblings TRY to kidnap Astarion from either camp in Lower City. You can hand him over or fail to protect him, I've only seen that on UA-cam because I've never let them take him (as my friend and when playing as Astarion origin). The scene adds a lot, same with the other scene with his siblings. He is willing to lie to them to get them to help him ascend even tho by that point he knows he'd for sure have to sacrifice his siblings. But instead promises them freedom if they help him ascend...
Even though I love and feel compassion towards Astarion, this moment is very very disturbing…….
The only thing that can count as redemption after that is him actually wanting to free the spawns after he kills Cazador. I really want to know what his relationship with spawns was, like in one hand he acts like he doesn’t care and wants to sacrifice them but in the other hand he is almost crying talking how pities them after he managed to run away from Cazador.
We're all gay for Astarion
Astarion is adorable. I don't think I'll ever romance anyone else; they were thoroughly friendzoned the moment he showed up on my screen.
Also, I'd never make him bite Araj. My drow revealed that her (Araj's) house had links to illithids, and that her blood could be tainted by illithids. Astarion concludes that he wouldn't want more illithid shit in his mouth as well as in his head. Can't blame him.
him drinking the potion going “I had a change of heart” made me physically sick. oh my god
I like how you just casually dropped the description of the only the scenario in which you’d would let Astarion go through the ritual. It most probably matches the feelings of other players. Additionally I like how Astarion is just cool being friends or being something more because both is much more than he thought he could have. It’s a sense of gratitude that is not racked with envy of the other possibility, it’s just pure gratitude. Based on my interpretation of Pocket Con’s description of the game, since I never played it.
Late in the game he does not take "or whatever" very well. Spawn Astarion basically implies he gave up ascension for you... And ascended Astarion is also very hurtful in what he says. He claims days later that he respects you more for leaving him, but by that point I don't believe him. There's also cut epilogue where Astarion thinks about and misses Tav but is too proud to reach out. Yes, early on he's figuring out what he wants. But after Cazador or at end-game, he is very invested no matter if he ascended or not and does not take breakup well.
@@LadyDeutza You are probably talking about the break up line at the end 'after all I have sacrificed for you' but he says that regardless of if you did his quest and confronted Cazador or not. He is not talking about the ritual. In all the other break up lines post ritual he is just sad but accepts your decision.
In Baldur's gate 1 (and probably 2,i don't recall) members of high society also had a line "Don't touch me," said with an identical inflection. In fact, Astarion says a few different lines that all the members of the upper class said frequently. I think it's a nod to the fact that he was just another stuffy noble until he became a vampire.
Oh that's really neat! I didn't know about the call back to the earlier games!
I just had a "big brain" thought. One of the possible ends for Dark Urge is to be a compulsive killer, unable to remember or choose not to. In that path, ascending Astarion and becoming his spawn, is about giving someone you trust the ability to keep you in check, and that is darkly romantic.
OH!!!! I DID NOT KNOW THIS!!!
Yo!!! That's insane!!!
It really does seem like Durge Bard x Astarion is the Canon story, it seems to get the most extra tidbits, good or evil.
There is no romance ending for Evil Durge. If you go against Bhaal you either end yourself or cease to exist and become Bhaals meat puppet. You can become a Mind Flayer so he can't control you but then Ascended Astarion no longer wants you.
Sadly, a true evil ending spits in the face of both ascended Astarion and Minthara romances by just making them thralls. And if you don't dominate the brain as Bhaal's chosen, you kill yourself or become Bhaal's meat puppet with a hint that you might go kill your companions....
During the mirror scene with astarion, he weirdly approves if you say someone else looks better than him. Even though it means your not giving that praise he was clearly fishing
That is so interesting! I think he appreciates honesty there as well. Something he can measure his own looks against too? Since he can't see himself.
Can confirm, I'm with Lae'zel in my current playthrough and responded to him about her, and he took it pretty well and even comments on how he's gonna work with the competition
It's the same with the blood drinking scene. It seems like he cares more about you playing along with his hijinks than he does with just you being obsessed with him :)
@@PocketLeaves I think it's more about you joking around and being playful. Since i think the line has more of a sarcastic tone to it. He also approves of other jokes like making him say please and beg to sleep with you
Ok I'm only on half of this video essay, but damn, it already has me crying like something important to me died or something idk. I can't play BG3 bc my laptop is shitty, so I just watch playthroughs and explanation vids, and I wanted to know more about Astarion and, gosh, thank you for this!
Also, I really like your small laughs :') , they're so adorable and kinda help me not to fall into a pit of misery bc his story is so mentally draining. I feel so sorry for him and (maybe sounds crazy but I can't explain it otherwise) my limbs r literally want to twist in any directions that I can't do anything
I totally get how you feel!! I hope one day you're able to play the game yourself, but playthroughs are a great way to experience the story!
@@PocketLeaves I have 12 minutes left AND GOSH I feel you about ascended path, saw some cuts from it and I felt do conflicted seeing him continuing the cycle. And you are an absolute genius with how u came up with creating guardian character, I literally gasped and now thinking about it a lot. Really surprised that your vid doesn't have lots of likes because it's so deep, detailed and emotional. Thank you again for sharing it! Hope u r doing well (｡･ω･｡)ﾉ♡
@@sherman_dust Thank you for your kind words!!!!
I didn't know about the elf ritual for becoming an adult. That is really fascinating and makes Asterion's character even more tragic in the loss department. Not being able to reincarnate. I see why he's extremely scared to die now and overly concerned for his safety. This is literally the last life he will ever have with this soul. He will literally cease to exist for all eternity if he dies. I was sold on helping Asterion become Ascended after seeing him stand in the sun that morning after the Act 1 sex scene. Adding his soul not being able to reincarnate, that's another thing on my list now for ascension.
51:00 I really recommend checking out that scene. He tries to manipulate his siblings into helping him with the ritual, you can call him out on this or not but either way a fight starts because spawns have to obey Cazador's commands. If Astarion's hp drops to 0 during this figh he really can get kidnapped and you even get a whole another scene of his interaction with Godey. Karlach reation at this is heartbreaking. If your party wins the fight and you talk to Astarion after, he tries to play it cool, jokingly even: "well, at least you've met my family now!". If you confront him about lying to his siblings about the fact that they will die in the ritual you get one of my favourite emotional dialogues with him. Astarion tells you that noone ever look out for him or said a kind thing to him and Tav is the first one to care about him. Depends on your dialogue choices he can even mention how good to other people Tav is despite being in constant danger of turning into a mindflayer and he sounds so upset while saying that, like he can't understand how someone still be a good person after being through all of that tadpole hell. If you romance him, he will also say that he wants to ascend for you: "I'm doing this for you too, you know? So we can be safe, for good, forever". And the best part of this conversation in my huble opinion? He approves of you giving him hope and telling him that there are other people out there who care about him, that world can be beautiful, that he has a place in it.
Yes!!! I have since been able to play through the scene myself, although I haven't got the heart to let him get kidnapped.
My head cannon is that, Sébastien is the one he ran, to try and save. Oart of Cazador's punishment was to bring him back anyways, then sealed Astarion away. So the year of torment included the memory that he was the reason Sébastien "died."
I've heard that! I wasn't able to actually confirm that in my game, but it seems so likely! (I know you said headcanon, but I've seen people talk about it as if it were canon, but who knows, sometimes head canons are canon enough!)
1:16:32 I wanted to point out that on my Durge romance spawn Astarian run, during the graveyard scene, my character had the option to ask him to clarify what exactly he wanted to take place at the graveyard, because I as the player really identified with Astarian’s sexual trauma and how he deals with it, so I wanted to be sure that he was completely comfortable. For me, he did clarify outright that he wanted to have sex. I don’t see this as invalidating the read on Astarian’s a(sexuality) because it’s also not completely uncommon for some ace people to have sex consensually with a partner under certain circumstances.
I firmly believe that the only acceptable way to ascend Astarion is to make your player character *worse* than him. I did it in both of my evil runs - once because my character knew she would have him as a thrall once she took over the brain, and once because I played a psychopathic Dark Urge who could threaten him into submission. The only other time I tried was when I was playing tactician mode as practice for honor and I thought I would need his powers in the final boss fight. My game crashed right as the ritual finished, and I had to reload back to before it. I took that as a sign.
Hey, just wanted to say, the thing Astarion says about the vampire hunter is a lie. He is a member of the Gur, a monster hunter people, who are kind of Romani coded. When astarion was a magistrate, he was a bit corrupt and kept siding against Gur, which is why he got killed by them. Cazador then makes him, as a spawn, steal all of their children (he turns the children into spawn for the ritual). The vampire hunter is looking for Astarion because Astarion literally stole his kid. Astarion lies to the player about this, and is arguably doing racism against the Gur. I don't know if you got the scene with all the monster hunters in the camp where they're mad at Astarion, but it kind of explains some of this. He's definitely a flawed person and I kind of wish larian hadn't added the Gur thing because it's not really handled well imo. Easy to miss, and he doesn't really grow in regards to it. Good video essay otherwise
I have since learned most of that about the Gur, but I didn't know they were kind of Romani coded! Thank you for letting me know!
I don't think Astarion necessarily lied. He seems to genuinely not recognize the man from when he kidnapped their kids, and doesn't connect the dots. But yeah, I do feel bad for killing him now. But yeah, Astarion was definitely being biased towards the monster hunter, and seems to show a bias against the Gur people in general, which really sucks.
Girl, everytime you giggle and laugh, I'm giggling and kicking my feet cause Astarion is just so😩
I have almost the exact same kind of playthrough, were both just doing it all because we think it's what the other one wants! Also astarion and karlach are literal besties in my headcanon
My permanent party Astarion, Karlach/Minthara, Shadowheart
I heard about bg3 maybe, idk, a week ago? And I have over 60 pictures of him in my gallery and could write several essays on why it is he is so insecure and why his insecurity is such an important part of his character and even why it's the reason people like him so much and how his flirtatious tendencies and charms are after 250 years no longer just a manipulation technique but a coping mechanism
Astarion is not Ace but Pan. But I really love how the story about his sexuality evolves. It is so beautiful and relatable story about consent and overcoming trauma . After so many years of SA and feeling that sex is only something he can use as a weapon he is able to find a way to love himself again and enjoy sex in a healthy way. I also like the idea of him being demisexual. After he finds the person he can trust and that accepts him for what he really is, he loves the idea of being very intimate with that person :). A beautiful and healthy lovestory.
He is just... a very relatable character for a lot of people.
The ending to his quest is something I dreamed about myself a lot, and I truly appreciate that a game actually does not condemn the rage that comes with being a victim. The rage, the hatred, the disgust, it doesn't shy away from not only showing all of it, but also not invalidating any of it. Nobody ever judges Astarion for feeling that way.
So much other media preaches shallow forgiveness, saying that the victim would be just as bad as the abuser if they'd kill them.
Baldurs Gate 3 does explicitly NOT do this. No, Cazador is gonna die one way or another, he does not deserve anything else. NOBODY complains.
It feels so cathartic to finally see media that validates that feeling.
Both Astarion and Shadowheart are the same. They're both Elves who had a very traumatic life. While Astarion was turned into a Vampire and became nothing more that Cazador's play thing, Shadowheart or Jenevelle was torn from her parents by Viconia and brainwashed into worshipping Shar when she and her parents used to worship Selune. Both of them start out as somewhat hard to trust as Shadowheart tend to act a bit selfish while Astarion enjoys people suffering, hits on anything that moves and kill anyone to satisfy his blood lust. But the more they spent time with Tav, the more both Shadowheart and Astarion became better people. Once Tav helps the two Elves kill Viconia and Cazador, the two people that are the source of their pain and suffering, Shadowheart and Astarion are forced to make a difficult choice. Shadowheart must kill her parents in order to be free from Shar while Astarion kills all of the Spawns in order to ascend. If Tav lets the two decide for themselves, Shadowheart's loses her parents again and Astarion kills the Spawns but doesn't ascend.
Weirdly enough if certain storybeats are hit, Shadowheart will choose to free her parents herself just like how she can spare the nightsong herself. I really wish there was a way for astarion to choose to not ascend himself. It feels out of character in that moment for him to be so power hungry after everything you go through. I know he brings it up after wards that "I wasnt myself back there" but still, I got an even greater appreciation of Shadowheart when she chose to save her parents, I wanted the same thing for Astarion.
for all the astarion girlies, apparently u can feed the babe every night and cast lesser restoration in the morning. i did go through the entire game without knowing this.
My monk, still being the best player in my party despite being bloodless the entire game
So what's interesting about how they wrote him is sometimes its better to not be a people pleaser and get his disapprovals because he's objectively wrong. And sometimes that's okay! Doing everything he wants leads the player to agreeing to help him ascend which is repeating the cycle
I understand why people see Astarion as asexual, but canonically he's pansexual. However, not showing the scene at the graveyard allows for representation for asexual players that I like.
The scene were Astarion mentions not wanting to be a sexual object spoke to me so strobgly that I almost cried about it to my bf lol As someone Aspec and struggling a lot with sexuality (like sex can be nice, but so fucking anxiety-inducing half the time) it was the first time I saw a character spell out plainly how I felt the times people made advances to me. Ngl it felt stupid good.
I rly like the fact that if you cant convince him to keep on sleeping with you if you want to pursue his romance or keep a good relationship. To have that boundary set in stone really feels great to see to me. I do wish there was an option to go see him at night afterwards and just offer to lay down and cuddle or chill with him tho, bc I feel like that'd be a great way to just show him that you enjoy his presence and you care abt him for something other than sexual gratification
The killing of Cazador and how Astarion felt is similar to Dame Ailyn with the wizard. He couldn't understand why she wasn't happy. Depending on the reply your reply about why she's not happy he brushes off. It's interesting she brushes off your reply to her when she asks why she feels the way she does. I wish they had a dialgoue line to bring that up again, that revenge doesn't always make one "happy".
It's really the only part I don't like about astarions dedemption. Realistically killing Cazador doesn't help Astarion. I really wish there was an ending where the party takes Cazadors powers away or somehow frees asatrion from his vampirism.
I literally love astarion an insane amount not only because his character is so interesting but because I heavily relate to him as a character and I honestly love how despite the fantasy elements of his story it’s also very good representation for people who’ve gone through similar things like myself.
What Astarion reminds me of most is the mamy LGBTQ+ folks who end up being homeless and are then forced into survival sex work. Cazador would be the abusive pimp controlling him. These people if/when they escape are dealing with a lot of trauma and have usually developed toxic and maladaptive coping mechanisms and behaviors and it tkaes a lot for them to unlearn amd heal. Of course having their basic needs met and being surrounded by a patient community is their best chance at healing
im all here for more bg3 essays! i think ive watched dam near every cutscene either in game or on youtube (i have astarion brainrot syndrome. this pasty man is the reason i bought the game even though ive never played a trpg). id love to here you dive into karlach or gale in the same way. gales history, his death wish, how he handles the difference between gale of waterdeep and gale dekarios, id love to hear ur takes on it (theres room for gale brainrot apparently)
Yes!!! I'm working on a Karlach video now, but I'd love to take a deeper look into Gale! He's honestly so interesting!
After looking at how long this video was, I didn't expect to stay longer than 5 minutes but you, madam, were mesmerizing. I could listen to you for hours easily, talking with such emotion about Astarion or any other character or your interests because of the emotion you put, the intonation in your voice, the sincerity in your words, I know it's a scripted video but the script is heartfelt. So thank you very much for all the hard work you evidently put for this video which to me, is the best essay to Astarion to exist, by far.
As for the character, he is loved by me as he is loved by so many others and for all the right reasons. What attracted me to him were his godly looks, his vampiric affliction and his theatrical sass. He is so fun to be around in general, even outside of his looks and charms. I love his one-liners, his strange fear of clowns and overall drama over the smallest of things. He is always over the top about everything and his extroverted nature fits perfect against how shy I am irl. I can easily imagine being smitten with someone like him instantly if he existed irl. He'd speak enough for both of us and his funny tantrums or petty complaints would lighten up my sad life, each day. Unascended Astarion is the kind of man I would want to come home to. He is the kind of person I'd die to protect, in a heartbeat. He has tragedy and trauma in his past but he is so much more than what the world made him and oddly, it's this message that I take away from this character - despite being head over heels. That I can be more than what the world has made me or wants me to be. I may not have a Tav in my life yet or an Astarion in my life yet but maybe I can still win at it too in future.
The only thing I wanted to know - which probably the game didn't answer - is what he was like before he was a vampire. Like Sebastian, does he think of his friends? Does he remember his family?Did he ever remember them? What was the color of his eyes? I know when we visit his grave he says he knows nothing of the man he was before except a name on a headstone but it makes me wonder, is it true or is it something that he just fears to remember because that would remind him of all that he lost? Alas, my curiosity will be unfed, for now.
I'd like to think of a future where he finally finds a cure and is able to become mortal again. I feel he might like that.
I imagine that a lot of his old memories may just be lost to time. It happens to humans as we age too. The older we get, the harder it is to actually recall things from our childhood. But I do think there may be core memories hiding somewhere in his head, just like we all have. Maybe one day when he's healed enough to remember who he once was, they'll pop back up. I'm not really sure how that works though.
We do know he wasn't like the best guy around, but he probably wasn't all that different personality wise.
@@PocketLeaves Same here. I feel he might remember even but just chose to avoid thinking about that as it's painful just like we humans do. We suppress emotions and memories that are painful and mask them with something else. Astarion masks his pain through jokes, flirting and drama.
And yes, I read somewhere that he was a corrupt magistrate before he became a spawn so he wasn't exactly an angel on Earth. Perhaps he made a lot of noise in the corrupt political circles and eventually caught the eye of Cazador. I like to think Astarion was really charismatic which is why Cazador chose him to become a spawn in the first place. His skill only improved after he died.
This is an absolutely amazing video! Loved evey second of it. Do you plan on making more such analises? Maybe for Karlach or Gale? They both have so much potential for an unpacking video, especially Gale imo
I would love to!!!
@@PocketLeaves Ooh, exciting!! Would love to see a Gale video happen!
I'm only at the middle of act 2, Astarion for me is someone that prioritize his own survival and freedom above everythings, even common decency, but 200 years of being a slave just do that to him, abit of companionship will help alot, beside that he's alright, i haven't swap him out since the beginning of the game till now, it's pretty funny whenever i try to do some good the game belike *Astarion disapprove
Yeah, I will say striving for Astarion approval has started to get me to break the people pleasing habit. I'm now nice to people in the game because I want to be akdgagdgsg He does seem to disapprove of helping others a bit less as the game goes on.
@@PocketLeaves i generally help people since there will probably be a reward waiting, even tho the game like *Astarion disapprove, his dialogues and response show that he is some what do care, he just hide it as a reaction, which to me say alot about how Cazador abused him, which make me went "aww poor dude"
@@stealthy9754 Yes!!! That's so fair. I honestly just feel bad not helping people generally, but it is nice to have it pay off in some way!
Yeah, Cazador really put Astarion THROUGH IT
@@PocketLeaves he’s also amazing as as a party member, dude really vibe with me everytimes i do crime and steal stuffs
@@stealthy9754I find him disapproving less in act 3. I think maybe he start to just roll with it, since you insist on being annoyingly nice.
Funny is that when we go into the camp to go to sleep, we can see Astarion and Halsin in meditation position while "sleeping".
This is excatly why I love Astarion, and why I simp for him. Thank you for putting it into words~
I used to hate Astarion, but this breakdown honestly really helped me understand him & love his story.
Thank you
Even my durge evil play thru respects Astarion’s bodily autonomy
Thank you so much for making this video! English is not my first lenguage and sometimes I didn't catch all Astarion's story. On top of that, I don´t have the game to play it, so I watched a lot of videos to understand, then I discovered that are videos with subtitles in spanish haha :') With you I understood all the story finally, with the little details and I loved it, makes it so meaningfull and powerfull, I felt very close to he's story and it´s realistic the way he portrait the healing journey.
your love for this character is amazing to me. i have been wanting to learn about him but i cant play the game... i feel like you have a PHD in Astarion so thank you for answering literally every question i had about this guy! Great video :)
thank you so much!!! he has definitely become my favorite character of all time!
I will be the first to admit that looks wise he was NOT my first
choice in love interest. Shadow heart, wyll and Halsen when my first choices. So I didn’t understand the obsession with astarion. And then he held a knife to my throat……
You're so fair and valid. There are so many beautiful characters in this game, everyone at camp is so attractive.
....okay, wow. You really loose out on a ton of content when not romancing Astarion. I mean, I generally did, because I was playing very much heroic with my sorcadin main and that worked very badly with Astarion. I had him around in his character specific instances (making a deal with Raphael, having him meet but not drink the drow, obviously when fighting Cazador ect), but beyond that he was very rarely in my party. And due to that I basically got none of his pre-act 3 character development (well, very very little). Contrasted with Laezel, who was stuck in a similar situation (being only around for the character specific gigs), but still got, essentially, her whole character development (even tho I wasn't romancing her either, so I know I missed scenes, at least, there)... his arc just felt incomplete. Not bad (he was still a great and well written character), but just incomplete.
Omg I'd love an Unpacking Lae'Zel video, I haven't even finished act 2 romancing Astarion and I'm already thinking about whether to romance Lae'Zel or Karlach in my next playthrough.
1:24:05 it's funny that your first interaction with Astarion was him calling you (and the player) out.
Mine was the Astarion x Bear Halsin romance scene that went viral before the game came out lmao
Omg?! What a WILD first impression
This is so well done. Kudos. I love how you hit on matters of lore and lesser known facts around Astarion's character that were far more spelled out in EA and then tightened up to only be hinted at in release. People often seem to miss the finer points.
Two things tho.
Do you have a reference for the meaning of Astarion's name that was approved by the Developers or Neil or something? Because I've only seen Fan supposition around the Greek origin of Astarion, and Greek as a language doesn't exist in Faerun. So why would his name have a Greek meaning? Astarion is most likely a Moon Elf, as he's a High Elf and his hair, skin and and personality indicate that ancestry as most likely. So his name should most likely be translated from Espruar, not a Human language from our own world.
Doesn't change that it's his child name but I think the translation is wrong unless Larian or the VA directly confirmed this should be the translation..
The other is just a point on what a Magistrate is. It's a position of power relative to most everyday people, yes, but it's not this big, powerful position. It's definitely not on the same level as a Judge, they are appointed by Judges. But they're higher than Police and Attorneys. They read the law and interpret and make decrees on how to enforce said law to some extent tho they can be overruled. They read and enforce contracts too. They have some weight in some societies on the passing of new local law. This is a perfect job for a young Elven Noble, just out of studies and starting to make a name for himself in the ranks of Society and Family. He likely would have been appointed by a family member or a close friend of his Family who were themselves a Judge.
The meaning of Astarion's name I've mostly heard from people who decidedly know more about DnD than me say, so it could still be based on the Greek origin.
OOH, that's a really neat point on the nature of what a magistrate is! When I looked it up, it sounded like a type of judge position, but this makes much more sense.
@@PocketLeaves I ran across an interview with Neil Newbon recently where he made a comment that implied - at least to me - that the Greek translation of Astarion's name is in fact canon correct and intended. Pretty cool, thought I'd share.
@@salti1976 Ooh okay! Thank you for sharing!!!
Astarion is such a brutal subversion of dark and sexy vampires - his entire story just kicked me in the chest. And his story is so well done! So much love went into Astarion and his backstory, he's such an important character to so many people, gods I adore this man ❤
Charisma in DnD isn't a stat necessarily reflecting how smooth you are in conversation. It's a reflection of the character of who your playing your character, their self confidence, their strong will. By pure force of will how likely is the universe willing to listen? You can be the worst stutter with an ungodly B.O and flesh made of slime and still have a 25 charisma (look up Siebrix), or a legit divine looking entity with a charisma of 7.
(once again rolling into these videos late as hell)
I feel like Astarion and The Emperor parallel each other in a specific way. Astarion will sleep with Tav as a means of making himself valuable to them, an act to manipulate their feelings. While its debatable, The Emperor's attempt to sleep with Tav is the same tactic. However, Astarion eventually comes clean. The Emperor does not - Tav will never know his genuine feelings or motivates.
Also interesting that Astarion calls Sebastian "sweet", with a sort of horror that Astarion was the one to take advantage and destroy that sweetness. Theres a few times in the game that Astarion has the chance to call Tav sweet. And each time its difficult to figure out his undertone when he says it. He always says it hesitantly and I originally took it as a disdain for "sweetness". After Sebastian, I wonder if its actually Astarion feeling discomfort and concern for that sweetness because he knows its a vulnerability. And he wishes he didnt know that so well.
1:02:48 fun theory most likely cazador is projecting here 🫠🫠🫠
He was also in a place like Astarion once, when he was a spawn, even though he killed his master and created his own slaves, he still feels pathetic and like a slave, perhaps even more now when he has the powers of true vampire but can’t be even a bit happy with them
Also he was always jealous of Astarion, maybe saw his former master in him, so it’s more about how cazador feels next to Astarion.
There's so much mischaracterization in this, especially considering the trauma and his "asexuality", like literally no reading comprehension lmfao
Well developed assessment 🤣 and idk seems like it’s nearly canon that Astarion is Ace, given his romance path
@@kingofgrim4761 absolutely fucking not lmfao, did you even play the game? You define him by one line about his trauma and not his actual personality, interests and healing journey (where he reclaims his sexuality on his own terms, surprise). Yall are so WEIRD for trying to push all victims into that asexual touch averse box even when that's absolutely not the case. And yeah he's canonically pansexual.
Great video! Thank you for such a great analysis. ❤
Just to mention, he did not spit the blood as a "payback" but there is something wrong with her blood and he can tell. So it is literally disgusting to him.
Thank you!! Yeah, I forgot to mention that he thought it was disgusting. I still think he was a bit dramatic and showy about spitting it up though, or at least the voice acting was. Either way, relatable. He's so real for not keeping that nasty blood down.
If you play as a drow, you get the extra knowledge that her House experiments with blood, and illithids, so she probably has partial illithid blood, or other blood born curse/disease.
@@PocketLeavesAraj's family dabbled with illithid experimentation. So her blood is poison to Astarion. He's not being dramatic. If you have him bite Gale, similar issue but with Gale the shadow magic is the poison. He is a vampire so he doesn't die from it, but it fucks up his stomach. Hence... Throwing up. You only find out about Araj if you play a dark elf and I think there's a history check.
You didn’t mention that in the first scene where he drinks your blood, he can kill you, which leads to less flirty scenes
Since I got to this part. I didn't ascend him as a friend because I thought it was best for him to break the cycle but the ending for a non-romance vampire spawn Astarion is a travesty. I don't know that I will do that again in a non-romance playthrough. I wanted to help my friend find a solution, not have him roam the darkness alone! As Astarion, I ascended. They add a few dreadful dialogue choices but they also have the type of dialogue choices dark urge gets - basically resist being a complete asshole to everyone. As a romance, Astarion does not take kindly to being broken up with late in the game. Everything he says is maximum hurt, spawn or ascended. The epilogue they cut off says that Astarion and Tav are doing stuff together. You're always at his side as the vampire ascended. If you break up, he still misses you decades later but is too proud to admit it and reach out. The dialogue he has after the breakup sounds to me like total cope "I respect you for leaving"... Tsk. At the end, ascendant Astarion asks YOU what you want to do. He is a perfect match to someone power hungry who isn't interested in dominating illithids.
What I'm trying to explain is that Astarion is complex. And I feel bad denying him his freedom in the sun as a non-romance as the game gives me nothing but my imagination to hope I can help my friend. I'm off marrying Gale and poor Astarion is running from the sun. Fair??? I don't think so.
That's so fair. I honestly would probably never ascend him unless I'm doing a power hungry play through, but hearing your reasoning for why you'd ascend him makes so much sense. Sometimes we want more than just our imaginations when it comes to how stories wrap up.
Good thing they fixed it