He also kinda showed how badass the chopper gunner could be. But how hopeless it was because people just kept dying and respawning away from it hahahaha
Spawns and map size/design are inter-linked. Shitty small maps are gonna highlight spawn issues more often because of the fact the spawn system literally has less space and room for error on the spawn logic. CoD players always playing these dogshit chaotic clusterfuck maps is what they are catering to.
I think the Omnimovement could've used more complex and bigger maps. The combinations between smaller than average maps + bad spawns + fast gameplay due to Omnimovement is a formula for disaster IMO.
@@Edenium01 Yeah, most people don’t understand the actual relationships between everything in game design. They have no problem solving skills and just go “Durrr, maps bad!” Like… the devs are fundamentally change HOW you move around the maps without actually changing the maps to ACCOMMODATE it. They are using the same map design philosophy they’ve been using for like 15 years if anything they’re actually designing maps smaller on average square footage alone. And that’s the total opposite of what they should be doing. If your character traverses a map .80x faster than they used to then your map design philosophy needs to increase overall map square footage by .80x what it used to. People PLEASE RECOGNIZE THIS FACT!
@@Edenium01 Here’s my suggestion, certain players are NOT looking for balanced gameplay. They just want chaos. They would be happy with an empty box where players spawn in right infront of each other. I mean Shipment is already ALMOST that. It is impossible to have meaningful gameplay in that, it’s just reaction-time/movement/100% engagement shootem’up time. So how about instead of making maps and wasting development time and space on facilitating that. They just make all maps accommodate normal 6v6 balance and ideal flow. And then just have a game filter called “grind” (Grind-TDM, Grind-Free-for-All, Grind-Domination .etc) where it drops 32 players into a map at once. There, that’s all they have to do. No wasted development, no need to make shitty maps in order to facilitate the chaos, just raise the player count for a special mode HELL, MAKE IT 64 even.
I love your skyline idea and it was exactly what i was thinking. Seems somewhat impossible to traverse on that left side so adding a scaffolding to the side of the building helps fix that. That idea also kind of reminds me of hijacked how it had the same thing
The perceived community preference for small maps is artificially inflated by warzone-first players looking for faster gun leveling and MP folks who are focused on camo grinding. After I finished with interstellar in MW3, I went straight back to the normal playlist.
YESSSS scaffolding would be awesome! And yeah imo a flank route like the basement tunnel does not count as a third lane. Same with the catwalk with zero cover
Scud was actually my favorite map in the Beta. I didn't like Rewind at all, but I think it may be one of those maps like Picadilly in MW19 or Border Crossing in MWII that I just have to play for a while and learn the quirks of before I really appreciate and perform well on it. I didn't absolutely hate Skyline, but I agree that your suggested changes would improve it a lot!
I feel like the core maps from the beta test have heavily emphasized upon their core elements for each map: Babylon has the central pyramid temple where players gathered from all directions, Derelict has climbable train sections, Rewind focuses on having multiple different stores, Scud has the satelite overwatch (it has been mentioned to be set after the campaign as well), and Skyline focuses on the elevation and rooms with security doors. I think that it's good that the maps aren't just designed to purely revolve around the three lanes map philosophy, but I can also see that the current philosophy in BO6 is more loose on creating an engaging gunfight experience from the past BO titles.
IMO this is something that sledge hammer got really right with the new maps that they added to mw3. Rio, 6 star, vista, grime, incline.. all have good flow, deep spawn relief areas, power positions with counter power positions and all feel unique despite having an underlying 3 lane design. Compare that to what we played in the beta, and the maps are closer to the Swiss cheese style maps we had in MW2019. Derail, rewind and scud were chaos with 10 lanes and 10 cuts 20 doorways. Skyline is closest to that 3 lane feel but even that has a very open design with many cuts which makes it very hard to track players. Interested to see if any of these maps are even competitively viable.
One piece of feedback is that the maps have a lot of clutter that ruins flow. Babylon and Skyline felt the best because they had a more simple layout like the old bo1, bo2 maps (nuketown, hijacked, summit, firing range). While Scud, rewind, and derelict almost feel like an IW style'd map where it tries to be realistic and less arcady. Being honest the xdefiant maps feel more treyarch/arcady style'd than the bo6 maps.
In Skyline I wouldn't just add the scaffolding but I would change the entire vent area into something more maneuverable like the engine room in Hijacked
@@quantumwitcher9376theres a reason why COD over the years has had shipment, nuketown and shoot house 24/7 playlists. COD players want their dopamine hits
You can blame the map designs being too small thanks to shipment / shoothouse 24/7. They took the data of "wow everyones playing these maps constantly so we need more of these maps". This is how we end up with things like babylon and the spawns being so bad. They want nothing but spawn die game maps because thats what the "Data" shows. Its what the "majority" of players must want because its what they play.
This game also suffers from the spawn logic issues at the beginning of MWIII at last years launch where it does NOT factor in verticality at all. You can be playing on the sandbags on top of the bunker on Scud and enemies will spawn directly beneath you and walk right out into the trench mid map or even just go right up the ladder and have the drop on you. This was by far the most prevalent occurrence of this happening but even on some of the interior Skyline spawns, this would happen.
the problem with scud isn't the headglitch, it's that that head glitch has a head glitch right next to it and since there's more then 2 people there, the spawns will keep the enemy back away from the power point and since there's no headshots, the only way to fight back is to either already have a streak or two, use a headshot barrel(bad idea), or use a sniper. which turns the map into "protect the sniper/counter sniper" simulator. and if one of the snipers on the satelite side earn a chopper gunner the match is over.
I was warming up to Scud the more I played it. I prefer it to Rewind or Derelict tbh. For Skyline, I also feel like it needs *something* for more breathing room. I was thinking of opening up the section above the bar (there's actually a BO1-style RC-XD route there), would help be another access point to the upper levels. But the scaffolding makes a lot of sense too.
For Skyline, in addition to the scaffolding you mentioned, I think at 8:05 if they opened that gate and let it go around to the other balcony on the other side 8:02 It would flow a lot better. Especially since they consider it a medium map.
There’s no chance they consider skyline to be a “medium” sized map… it’s TINY! So if every other map at launch is going to be around the same size and/or SMALLER it’s going to be horrible
The games always play faster during the beta compared to launch. I'm assuming it'll be the same this year. I'm usually way more concerned about flow than strictly size.
@@OMGItzSlickerz They are usually the least played/voted for maps, which I'm sure Treyarch has that data. I don't see why we NEED large maps. What about them is actually necessary? More running to the enemy team camping?
@@Tatman2TheResQ like ace has said, it gives us variety… playing on only small maps makes them all feel the same wether they are or not… I’ve always been more of a fan playing large maps.
A huge problem the devs are clearly not aware of is since players move so quickly now it causes spawns to get messed with bad. The maps are medium but they feel small because of how fast players move with tac sprint. They feel like they were made without taking into account the speed players traverse terrain now. So spawns are almost never good because players are constantly entering the area someone would potentially be spawning in regularly due to movement speed.
Does anyone else think that maybe Skyline wasn't completely finished yet? It would appear that there is an outdoor veranda area on the second floor above the bar area. On one side of the map there is a barred gate blocking the area and on the other side there is a door with a table leaning against it to prevent access. I think it's possible there are still tweaking that area and there might be another 2nd floor lane at launch. Wishful thinking?
Tbh, scud was my favourite map from the beta. It felt very classic, kind of like a pre-bo2 map. I get that maps like Estate that have great power positions split the community, but this map has character, which some of the newer maps lack. It kind of reminds me of like a small version of a WaW map, like airfield, which was also very open. I’d keep it how it is, perhaps Nerf the radar a little bit so you can’t headglitch. Personally I like that there’s a few open maps (not all of them), it gives some of the other gun classes a spot to shine. Of course having 3 lane maps is important, what makes of breaks a Call of duty for me is map variety (not every map has to be 3 laned like bo4 nor chaotic like cod ghosts). I agree I’d like one or two large maps, the older cods always had "the big map", like Turbine or Array. Speaking of which, maybe they’d be more open to remake array in this game, since there are no large maps at lauch, I feel nostalgic for it.
I actually liked the maps they flowed well on objective game modes but man the spawns were so random at times but overall I hope treyarch can make some more medium sized maps
My biggest issue with ALL of the maps was that you can shoot through just about everything. Nothing is actual cover. Best example of this is the wall overlooking the pool. You can prone behind it, but if anyone knows you're there they can just shoot you through the wall no problem. I miss the days when cover was actually cover
@@baileywooten9897 and i vividly recall cod4 shipment being hell because all somebody had to do was put on that one perk and just shoot anywhere, and likely hit you
Skyline was one of my favorite maps in the beta but I think your additional route is an excellent idea. It's unlikely that the devs implement this but I really hope they do. It's a really smart idea especially connecting it to the lower vents. Would help eliminate shotgun campers and hvt's hiding down there all match.
Aside from the rock head glitch, I actually liked Derelict. I also like your scaffolding idea for skyline. There were several times where I would try to capture the B Domination point and try to crouch behind the pool only to have Omni-movement throw me off the side of the building thinking I was wanting to dive. If there was a scaffold there it could potentially catch you and would actually provide an escape route since that area is overlooked on three sides with instant death currently awaiting you off the side of the building if you dive wrong or back up too far while shooting. Also, it might be nice if that scaffold wrapped around the back to that spawn, because as it is that area doesn't get used much and it would provide a nice flanking route, which currently doesn't exist.
Idk whats with cod devs and struggling to make medium sized maps. Mw3 was all either shipment clones or the derail clones from the original mw2. Most of the maps in the game should be medium sized, with 1-2 tiny maps and 1-2 large maps tossed in
Why Derail clones? There's zero maps or variants close to Derail. I haven't been able to play this map for 5 months or so. The post-launch maps were all either small or small or small-medium sized maps.
Pretty much agree exactly. I even thought the same thing about adding a section to skyline there. I think these maps are actually alright. If anything, Sledgehammer's new maps in MWIII were more old school 3 lane Treyarch and I enjoyed them, but these feel much more varied and interesting. They're still sort of 3 lane, but they don't all play super similar and I think its a nice change of pace.
I'm a casual player, I don't know what proper players prioritise, but I quite liked the maps. Rewind was the only one that felt a bit lacking, it's so flat. Personally I prefer smaller maps. That said, if there are no larger maps in the finished game, that's an issue. There needs to be a bit of variety.
Honestly I quite enjoyed Skyline but I do which there were more mid-level to top floor routes. Something like a piece of furniture to then mantle up through the sky light would be great.
I really like that scaffolding idea, it's just enough weasel room to fuck around with. It also allows for a different approach to taking out dudes on the roof near the 'ladder' side, could be a nice flank for sure.
Thanks Ace! Seeing that your feedback largly resonates with mine gives confidence that I'm not imagining things. I like bright Treyarch maps and when I saw gameplay I thought Scud would be the worst because it's grey and overhead view looks like an IW map with all the random stuff scattared around. But it was kinda good definitely 3 lanes and medium range with long range. Derelict is my worst - too cluttered and mid part is seen from every corner and you die to easily, one thing that help is lane around the gas tank - it's properlly concealed and works good for flanking. Skyline visually reminds of Raid and Hijacked but feels a little too small, mainly because it has only 2 lanes like you said. Your suggestion seems awesome. Hidden passage is too long and dangerous even compared to Hijacked. One place that I thought worked pretty good was the elevator - easy 3-way flank nobody expects. Babylon is good like a Shipment map but feels too chaotic (duh), but if there was a 4v4 mode it could shine. Rewind seems like a fringe large map, main problem is sometimes you spawn too far from action. Also, in dom and hardpoint it played super fun. Overall, maps were not what I expected, they weren't horrible. I hope that launch maps are really medium sized and more vibrant (or atleast less visual clutter IW style like on derelict and scud)
Changing parts of map design is never out the window, even this close to launch. Sledgehammer showed its possible with ww2 where they changed parts of at least one map "aachen", maybe others also. Honestly i am surprised that changing maps based on community feedback hasn't become more common, even months into a game
your scaffolding idea is a very good one; a high risk and possibly high reward move, provided you don't get sniped from the piano. That back route to the top was always rewarding, it would lead to some nice CQB. Access to the scaffolding from the bedroom would also add a nice "sneaky" element. I see many unintended omnimovement flips off the edge tho...lol! I like it, but Activision probably doesn't have the balls to listen to good ideas that they didn't think of. Great video Ace!
I don't mind the maps other than Scud, I hate because like Ace said the camping spot at the satellite is way too powerful. Also, Treyarch still has the option to bring in bigger maps in other seasons if that's what the player base wants so I wouldnt write the game off for this reason.. However, I don't mind the current small to medium maps. The center of the map on derelict is too chaotic. I think some spots on top of the trains shouldn't be easily accessible because people will jump up their often and get 1 or 2 cheesy suprise kills then die. Also the trains add too many lanes in the middle that make the map very uncontrollable like Ace mentioned as well
I agree 100%, it's funny I thought of the same things with Skyline... I think back to Evac in Bo3 and how you could wallrun the entire outside of the map. Gave it more options and personality
I think you were spot on about the maps, especially derelict. C flag and spawns set aside, I think it was fun and challenging, once you adjusted to the sight lines.
I didn't hate Scud itself, but my god did I hate the spawn system on Scud. I was having games where I would die, respawn 5ft away from where I died and immediately get killed by the same player. I guess it's very easy to misinterpret that as people getting frustrated with/hating on Scud when I reality they just had issues with spawns. Either way your suggestion for Skyline is absolutely what it needs and I hope Treyarch see it and make the change before launch!
I just hate how "hand-holdy" every map was. It felt like every engagement I had was a unwinnable 1v4. Hoping FFA plays way better. (Like it usually does.)
An idea I had to improve Skyline was to shorten the length of the pool and add a gazebo or some sort of cover on the far outside edge to provide a safer option if you wanted to go that route. (Like Hijacked did with the long gazebo on the one side, opposite of the bridge) and as well add a jump up point to the roof on the front side too, just like the rear.
12:25 I love the idea I think it would be better if it was mantle instead of ladder so the noise won’t be as audible and make it a swig position for a team using that route.
i feel another thing that could help skyline is if they increased the height of the hottub in the pool section lets say if they double it, this would lead to more cover from certain areas and definitely would make holding that hardpoint possible
I thought Skyline was a smaller medium sized map but the improvements you suggested would make it much better. I also agree with your suggestions for Scud. It isn't a bad map but needs a little tweaking. I find it hard to give an opinion on Babylon because the spawns were so bad.
Since it's become so regular to use, trophy systems (and all deployed equipment) should only last a certain amount of time or uses after activation. Mainly for the trophy systems and munitions bags since they were the only ones like that available in the beta. Maybe 8-10 interceptions/resupplies or two-thirds to 1 full amount of the time to recharge by time (no kills or other points). There have been too many times I saw 6-8 bags around spawns or 2-3 trophy systems from 1-2 people on certain vantage points.
Dude, I've been watching your videos for a while. I've also watched chrisfix, and I'm sure you're either the same guy or from the same region. Has anybody mentioned this before?. Anyway cheers to you for always having the most informative cod videos.
One thing that is very difficult to analyze due to their core rotation of game modes being the only option is how maps play in certain modes. Certain modes like domination, the spawns sometimes tend to feel much better. There could be some maps where it is just a specific game mode that has spawns that feel bad.
Generally agree with everything you said Ace. None of the maps were awful but none were great either. Skyline definitely seemed a little bit on the smaller side but I'm guessing the 2.5 levels on the map is why it's considered medium. I really like your idea on Skyline to make that pool side of the map less of a death trap. Derelict is meh, a bit too tight, but again, not bad. Rewind is a medium map but half of it was sorta pointless, which makes it feel smaller since all the action is only on like half the map. This also contributed to spawns feeling super distant. On Scud they need to add a way to get up to head glitch on the satellite from the middle of the map (and a Treyarch dev did acknowledge that feedback on Twitter so that seems feasible) to provide more counter play, and also lower it a bit so it's less of a head glitch. Babylon was good for a small map, but spawns were god awful.
I wonder if adding a canopy like cover over the pool would also help with skyline. It’ll provide some cover over the pool and a way to jump across between the upper levels.
I can't help but feel these are Modern warfare/infinityward style maps. Treyarch is all about creating maps with flow, without too many sharp angles and buildings, look at bo2,bo3,bo4... they were completely fantasy settings... Now it's all about taking real life settings and turning them into multiplayer maps.
1000% correct on the map size, while I like the Small Map Moshpit of MWIII it's good to have a few more larger maps to be a bit more tactical at times especially when playing with Mates, so that you can go for the Obj's in a more structued manor, not running around like headless chickens all of the time. Skyline was not "Medium" lol, I like your idea of the Scaffolding/Ladder set up 👍
On MW2/3 everyone wanted smaller maps cause the maps in that game is always on the larger side, so everyone played shipment Now, their analytics showed them we liked small maps and created small maps, not taking the movement into consideration
You think it started with MW2? Lol it's been going on for way longer. People have always their their pants every time it's Nuketown 24/7, going back 10 years now.
The mantle spot on the bedroom side should also be stairs. If you try to mantle and someone is holding that sightline you can’t peek and unpeek without dying
Wow I didn’t know everyone hated scud so much. Imo it was a great map I felt it was a large map but offered a lot of cover everywhere you went. That satellite area didn’t feel too op and I felt I was flanking enemies left and right there. The worst map for me was rewind. It wasn’t as big as scud but if felt huge and empty. You run for ever to get to a position and then get shot from nowhee
skyline reminds me a bit of hijacked, there are a lot of similarities, like the underground "secret passage", and the idea that you are proposing is the path where is open to the left of the central area of hijacked, that path where you can see the ocean and is a little bit safer than going through the middle. i dont know if i explain myself here
Judging by how different launch of mw3 was from the beta I wouldn’t expect the game to be much like the beta on BO6 especially seeing the time gap from beta to launch of BO6 but I hope a lot changes
Your proposal for Skyline reminds me of Hijacked with that little lane that you can use to skip the middle portion of the map. That being said, I still think the sprinting speed is too fast for maps like this. In WWII, the sprinting speed was actually reduced when they brought in unlimited sprint
Would add a couple of things about rewind and derelict: Rewind: the whole road area feels a bit useless and wasted. Same for the small restaurant on the other side of the map. The main indoor bits are also quite cluttered. Derelict: also very cluttered for it's size. I'd shrink the size of some me or the carts or get rid of one or two of them. Otherwise generally agree on feedback
I actually enjoyed all the maps really like the smaller map designs it’s amazing to me how quickly the community just completely forgets about how all content creators where crying about the last few years was the large empty maps COD has been dropping. I’d say the only map I didn’t care for much was derelict the train one.
The derailed train map, Derelict, was horribly balanced. One side spawn has only two exits. The other side has a camping spot and in Domination a lot more B flag area to camp in.
I liked Scud and Skyline the most as an ultra casual CoD player. I did not like rewind since it felt cluttered, busy and I just never caught onto the flow of that map.
I couldn't believe the referenced raid when they tweeted about the maps- Raid is a legendary cod map, and wouldn't be used on the same sentence as these ones
The maps definitiely were my biggest problem with the beta, which I beside from that really liked. I really like your ideas regarding Skyline - in its current state the pool area just always means certain death when staying too long. However I really, really hated Derelict - it felt like one big choke point with three lanes leading towards it. Scud on the other hand was my favorite map of the Beta, it felt like there is a lot of gameplay variety on that map. Babylon... Well, the Pit would be better suited as a regular 6v6 map then the mess of a map Babylon is.
I think that the map needs the highjacked treatment where part of the pool needs to be reworked as a cover system with how your idea is on that side like stacks of creates / a board walk across that side of the pool to make it more viable
Scud was actually good outside of TDM. I had a few matches where both teams actually fought for the hardpoin and i felt it played really well for that other than a few spawns
Bro got a Chopper Gunner so he can provide us his theoretical map rework. That's dedication
He also kinda showed how badass the chopper gunner could be. But how hopeless it was because people just kept dying and respawning away from it hahahaha
Skyline is so bad for the chopper gunner haha
The spawns definitely made the maps feel worse than they actually are.
No, the maps really are just that bad. Not a single map was even a B tier map
I would argue that it is the opposite. The map design hurt the spawns more than the spawns hurt the map design.
No. The maps are bad. Simple as that. Even if the spawns were fixed, it can't fix these maps.
Spawns and map size/design are inter-linked. Shitty small maps are gonna highlight spawn issues more often because of the fact the spawn system literally has less space and room for error on the spawn logic. CoD players always playing these dogshit chaotic clusterfuck maps is what they are catering to.
The fact that the maps are so small with most of them not actually even having three lanes is why the spawns were worse than ever lmfao
I think the Omnimovement could've used more complex and bigger maps. The combinations between smaller than average maps + bad spawns + fast gameplay due to Omnimovement is a formula for disaster IMO.
Thats how I felt. You increased player movement with roughly the same size traditional or even smaller maps, holy fuck what are you smoking
yep the jetpack cod maps would be the perfect size
@@LegateSprinklesthis^
@@Edenium01 Yeah, most people don’t understand the actual relationships between everything in game design. They have no problem solving skills and just go “Durrr, maps bad!” Like… the devs are fundamentally change HOW you move around the maps without actually changing the maps to ACCOMMODATE it. They are using the same map design philosophy they’ve been using for like 15 years if anything they’re actually designing maps smaller on average square footage alone. And that’s the total opposite of what they should be doing. If your character traverses a map .80x faster than they used to then your map design philosophy needs to increase overall map square footage by .80x what it used to. People PLEASE RECOGNIZE THIS FACT!
@@Edenium01 Here’s my suggestion, certain players are NOT looking for balanced gameplay. They just want chaos. They would be happy with an empty box where players spawn in right infront of each other. I mean Shipment is already ALMOST that. It is impossible to have meaningful gameplay in that, it’s just reaction-time/movement/100% engagement shootem’up time. So how about instead of making maps and wasting development time and space on facilitating that. They just make all maps accommodate normal 6v6 balance and ideal flow. And then just have a game filter called “grind” (Grind-TDM, Grind-Free-for-All, Grind-Domination .etc) where it drops 32 players into a map at once. There, that’s all they have to do. No wasted development, no need to make shitty maps in order to facilitate the chaos, just raise the player count for a special mode HELL, MAKE IT 64 even.
I love your skyline idea and it was exactly what i was thinking. Seems somewhat impossible to traverse on that left side so adding a scaffolding to the side of the building helps fix that. That idea also kind of reminds me of hijacked how it had the same thing
8:22 That’s a dope suggestion. Would give hijacked vibes
The perceived community preference for small maps is artificially inflated by warzone-first players looking for faster gun leveling and MP folks who are focused on camo grinding. After I finished with interstellar in MW3, I went straight back to the normal playlist.
Nah I’m a 2kd+ og dat plays multiplayer I love trapping on small maps and destroying kids big maps=ruined games it’s cause sbmm bro trust me
@@Jayevonte So you are only good at the game when you can spawn kill people who can't shoot back, got it.
YESSSS scaffolding would be awesome!
And yeah imo a flank route like the basement tunnel does not count as a third lane. Same with the catwalk with zero cover
Scud was actually my favorite map in the Beta. I didn't like Rewind at all, but I think it may be one of those maps like Picadilly in MW19 or Border Crossing in MWII that I just have to play for a while and learn the quirks of before I really appreciate and perform well on it. I didn't absolutely hate Skyline, but I agree that your suggested changes would improve it a lot!
I feel like the core maps from the beta test have heavily emphasized upon their core elements for each map: Babylon has the central pyramid temple where players gathered from all directions, Derelict has climbable train sections, Rewind focuses on having multiple different stores, Scud has the satelite overwatch (it has been mentioned to be set after the campaign as well), and Skyline focuses on the elevation and rooms with security doors. I think that it's good that the maps aren't just designed to purely revolve around the three lanes map philosophy, but I can also see that the current philosophy in BO6 is more loose on creating an engaging gunfight experience from the past BO titles.
IMO this is something that sledge hammer got really right with the new maps that they added to mw3. Rio, 6 star, vista, grime, incline.. all have good flow, deep spawn relief areas, power positions with counter power positions and all feel unique despite having an underlying 3 lane design.
Compare that to what we played in the beta, and the maps are closer to the Swiss cheese style maps we had in MW2019. Derail, rewind and scud were chaos with 10 lanes and 10 cuts 20 doorways. Skyline is closest to that 3 lane feel but even that has a very open design with many cuts which makes it very hard to track players.
Interested to see if any of these maps are even competitively viable.
retail? 😂
That skyline suggestion reminds me of the side route on hijacked. Would be a great change
One piece of feedback is that the maps have a lot of clutter that ruins flow. Babylon and Skyline felt the best because they had a more simple layout like the old bo1, bo2 maps (nuketown, hijacked, summit, firing range). While Scud, rewind, and derelict almost feel like an IW style'd map where it tries to be realistic and less arcady. Being honest the xdefiant maps feel more treyarch/arcady style'd than the bo6 maps.
Rewind feels like im running against a wall with my right shoulder and thats the only way i can describe it
Rewind is Treyarch’s Piccadilly
Rewind was by far my least favorite from the beta
In Skyline I wouldn't just add the scaffolding but I would change the entire vent area into something more maneuverable like the engine room in Hijacked
At this rate the maps are going to be a single room in a few years
Right. I never even knew what 'strike' maps were. So I tried it out and could not understand in what world people enjoy those maps and modes.
@@quantumwitcher9376theres a reason why COD over the years has had shipment, nuketown and shoot house 24/7 playlists. COD players want their dopamine hits
Ground wars going to be interesting on "medium" maps lol
You can blame the map designs being too small thanks to shipment / shoothouse 24/7. They took the data of "wow everyones playing these maps constantly so we need more of these maps". This is how we end up with things like babylon and the spawns being so bad. They want nothing but spawn die game maps because thats what the "Data" shows. Its what the "majority" of players must want because its what they play.
They probably forgot that a lot of people only play those tiny maps to farm weapon camos, not to have fun.
We already knew that over a decade ago considering Nuketown is easily the most iconic map in the franchise.
I actually like bigger maps for S&D. 😓
@@DevlVergilThe “why” doesn’t matter to Activision, all that matters are the #s
Reason being is because it caters to the attention span of today’s gamers. Everything has to be frenetic and high octane to retain players apparently.
This game also suffers from the spawn logic issues at the beginning of MWIII at last years launch where it does NOT factor in verticality at all. You can be playing on the sandbags on top of the bunker on Scud and enemies will spawn directly beneath you and walk right out into the trench mid map or even just go right up the ladder and have the drop on you. This was by far the most prevalent occurrence of this happening but even on some of the interior Skyline spawns, this would happen.
the problem with scud isn't the headglitch, it's that that head glitch has a head glitch right next to it and since there's more then 2 people there, the spawns will keep the enemy back away from the power point and since there's no headshots, the only way to fight back is to either already have a streak or two, use a headshot barrel(bad idea), or use a sniper. which turns the map into "protect the sniper/counter sniper" simulator. and if one of the snipers on the satelite side earn a chopper gunner the match is over.
I was warming up to Scud the more I played it. I prefer it to Rewind or Derelict tbh.
For Skyline, I also feel like it needs *something* for more breathing room. I was thinking of opening up the section above the bar (there's actually a BO1-style RC-XD route there), would help be another access point to the upper levels. But the scaffolding makes a lot of sense too.
For Skyline, in addition to the scaffolding you mentioned, I think at 8:05 if they opened that gate and let it go around to the other balcony on the other side 8:02 It would flow a lot better. Especially since they consider it a medium map.
There’s no chance they consider skyline to be a “medium” sized map… it’s TINY! So if every other map at launch is going to be around the same size and/or SMALLER it’s going to be horrible
The games always play faster during the beta compared to launch. I'm assuming it'll be the same this year.
I'm usually way more concerned about flow than strictly size.
@@Tatman2TheResQ we need at least 2 large maps in the game at the very least
@@OMGItzSlickerz They are usually the least played/voted for maps, which I'm sure Treyarch has that data.
I don't see why we NEED large maps. What about them is actually necessary? More running to the enemy team camping?
@@Tatman2TheResQ like ace has said, it gives us variety… playing on only small maps makes them all feel the same wether they are or not…
I’ve always been more of a fan playing large maps.
It’s not *that* tiny tbh
I'm fine with small maps as long as they don't feel cramped and there's opportunities for isolated gun fights
A huge problem the devs are clearly not aware of is since players move so quickly now it causes spawns to get messed with bad. The maps are medium but they feel small because of how fast players move with tac sprint. They feel like they were made without taking into account the speed players traverse terrain now. So spawns are almost never good because players are constantly entering the area someone would potentially be spawning in regularly due to movement speed.
Does anyone else think that maybe Skyline wasn't completely finished yet? It would appear that there is an outdoor veranda area on the second floor above the bar area. On one side of the map there is a barred gate blocking the area and on the other side there is a door with a table leaning against it to prevent access. I think it's possible there are still tweaking that area and there might be another 2nd floor lane at launch. Wishful thinking?
Tbh, scud was my favourite map from the beta. It felt very classic, kind of like a pre-bo2 map. I get that maps like Estate that have great power positions split the community, but this map has character, which some of the newer maps lack.
It kind of reminds me of like a small version of a WaW map, like airfield, which was also very open.
I’d keep it how it is, perhaps Nerf the radar a little bit so you can’t headglitch.
Personally I like that there’s a few open maps (not all of them), it gives some of the other gun classes a spot to shine. Of course having 3 lane maps is important, what makes of breaks a Call of duty for me is map variety (not every map has to be 3 laned like bo4 nor chaotic like cod ghosts).
I agree I’d like one or two large maps, the older cods always had "the big map", like Turbine or Array. Speaking of which, maybe they’d be more open to remake array in this game, since there are no large maps at lauch, I feel nostalgic for it.
I enjoyed Scud. It was a nice alternative to Skyline and Derelict.
Obviously should have at least one large map rather than never being able to play a large map. The maps were pretty good, but not great.
I actually liked the maps they flowed well on objective game modes but man the spawns were so random at times but overall I hope treyarch can make some more medium sized maps
My biggest issue with ALL of the maps was that you can shoot through just about everything. Nothing is actual cover. Best example of this is the wall overlooking the pool. You can prone behind it, but if anyone knows you're there they can just shoot you through the wall no problem. I miss the days when cover was actually cover
Except for when you try to shoot through it
Literally how black ops 2 was you could wall bang everything
Na its counterplay to campers like u keep crying
@@baileywooten9897 and i vividly recall cod4 shipment being hell because all somebody had to do was put on that one perk and just shoot anywhere, and likely hit you
I do think we could see some adjustments like you suggested for Skyline. They did the same with a small area of Seaside in BO4
I was thinking of opening up an additional top lane by opening the gate over the bar. Your suggestion I like too
Skyline was one of my favorite maps in the beta but I think your additional route is an excellent idea. It's unlikely that the devs implement this but I really hope they do. It's a really smart idea especially connecting it to the lower vents. Would help eliminate shotgun campers and hvt's hiding down there all match.
Aside from the rock head glitch, I actually liked Derelict.
I also like your scaffolding idea for skyline. There were several times where I would try to capture the B Domination point and try to crouch behind the pool only to have Omni-movement throw me off the side of the building thinking I was wanting to dive. If there was a scaffold there it could potentially catch you and would actually provide an escape route since that area is overlooked on three sides with instant death currently awaiting you off the side of the building if you dive wrong or back up too far while shooting. Also, it might be nice if that scaffold wrapped around the back to that spawn, because as it is that area doesn't get used much and it would provide a nice flanking route, which currently doesn't exist.
Idk whats with cod devs and struggling to make medium sized maps. Mw3 was all either shipment clones or the derail clones from the original mw2. Most of the maps in the game should be medium sized, with 1-2 tiny maps and 1-2 large maps tossed in
MWIII is receiving 5 more Shipment clones so it's literally ALL Shipmwnt
I mean, 6 Star, Rio and Vista were very very good maps. Didn't play much after S3 but there were some good maps added post-launch.
Derail clones?
What derail clones are in MWIII?
Why Derail clones? There's zero maps or variants close to Derail. I haven't been able to play this map for 5 months or so. The post-launch maps were all either small or small or small-medium sized maps.
Pretty much agree exactly. I even thought the same thing about adding a section to skyline there. I think these maps are actually alright. If anything, Sledgehammer's new maps in MWIII were more old school 3 lane Treyarch and I enjoyed them, but these feel much more varied and interesting. They're still sort of 3 lane, but they don't all play super similar and I think its a nice change of pace.
I actually really like the setting and layout of rewind. Seemed to play well on that VIP mode.
I'm a casual player, I don't know what proper players prioritise, but I quite liked the maps. Rewind was the only one that felt a bit lacking, it's so flat. Personally I prefer smaller maps. That said, if there are no larger maps in the finished game, that's an issue. There needs to be a bit of variety.
I like your suggestion for skyline
Honestly I quite enjoyed Skyline but I do which there were more mid-level to top floor routes. Something like a piece of furniture to then mantle up through the sky light would be great.
Getting closer to 1 mill subs. Keep it up!!!
I really like that scaffolding idea, it's just enough weasel room to fuck around with. It also allows for a different approach to taking out dudes on the roof near the 'ladder' side, could be a nice flank for sure.
Thanks Ace! Seeing that your feedback largly resonates with mine gives confidence that I'm not imagining things. I like bright Treyarch maps and when I saw gameplay I thought Scud would be the worst because it's grey and overhead view looks like an IW map with all the random stuff scattared around. But it was kinda good definitely 3 lanes and medium range with long range. Derelict is my worst - too cluttered and mid part is seen from every corner and you die to easily, one thing that help is lane around the gas tank - it's properlly concealed and works good for flanking. Skyline visually reminds of Raid and Hijacked but feels a little too small, mainly because it has only 2 lanes like you said. Your suggestion seems awesome. Hidden passage is too long and dangerous even compared to Hijacked. One place that I thought worked pretty good was the elevator - easy 3-way flank nobody expects. Babylon is good like a Shipment map but feels too chaotic (duh), but if there was a 4v4 mode it could shine. Rewind seems like a fringe large map, main problem is sometimes you spawn too far from action. Also, in dom and hardpoint it played super fun. Overall, maps were not what I expected, they weren't horrible. I hope that launch maps are really medium sized and more vibrant (or atleast less visual clutter IW style like on derelict and scud)
Changing parts of map design is never out the window, even this close to launch. Sledgehammer showed its possible with ww2 where they changed parts of at least one map "aachen", maybe others also. Honestly i am surprised that changing maps based on community feedback hasn't become more common, even months into a game
your scaffolding idea is a very good one; a high risk and possibly high reward move, provided you don't get sniped from the piano. That back route to the top was always rewarding, it would lead to some nice CQB. Access to the scaffolding from the bedroom would also add a nice "sneaky" element. I see many unintended omnimovement flips off the edge tho...lol! I like it, but Activision probably doesn't have the balls to listen to good ideas that they didn't think of. Great video Ace!
I don't mind the maps other than Scud, I hate because like Ace said the camping spot at the satellite is way too powerful. Also, Treyarch still has the option to bring in bigger maps in other seasons if that's what the player base wants so I wouldnt write the game off for this reason.. However, I don't mind the current small to medium maps. The center of the map on derelict is too chaotic. I think some spots on top of the trains shouldn't be easily accessible because people will jump up their often and get 1 or 2 cheesy suprise kills then die. Also the trains add too many lanes in the middle that make the map very uncontrollable like Ace mentioned as well
I hate that they think that all we want is meat grinder maps now days. I hate how people's attention spans are virtually non-existent anymore
Blame the players that complains when shipment playlist or nuketown weren't available. 😒
@@calebdesmond-lopez5637I have a hard time blaming the shipment players, when especially in MWII all the launch maps were ass.
its all bcuz no brain campers like you
Now this is the kind of video I like seeing. Constructive criticism with feedback on how to improve said issues. Not just complaining about it. 💜
I agree 100%, it's funny I thought of the same things with Skyline... I think back to Evac in Bo3 and how you could wallrun the entire outside of the map. Gave it more options and personality
YES THEY SUCKED TO PLAIN BORING A BIT TO SMALL AND NOT ENOUGH SPACE ON THE EDGES FOR SAFE PLACES TO SPAWN!!!!!
I think i love the ladder suggestion! Great thought!
They REALLY need to take on and implement your Skyline suggestion. 👏🏼
Couldn’t agree more about skyline. Really the only map I personally had an issue with
EDIT: absolutely LOVE your scaffolding idea
The scaffolding idea sounds way too good, hope they can actually make that happen
I think you were spot on about the maps, especially derelict. C flag and spawns set aside, I think it was fun and challenging, once you adjusted to the sight lines.
I didn't hate Scud itself, but my god did I hate the spawn system on Scud. I was having games where I would die, respawn 5ft away from where I died and immediately get killed by the same player. I guess it's very easy to misinterpret that as people getting frustrated with/hating on Scud when I reality they just had issues with spawns.
Either way your suggestion for Skyline is absolutely what it needs and I hope Treyarch see it and make the change before launch!
I just hate how "hand-holdy" every map was. It felt like every engagement I had was a unwinnable 1v4. Hoping FFA plays way better. (Like it usually does.)
An idea I had to improve Skyline was to shorten the length of the pool and add a gazebo or some sort of cover on the far outside edge to provide a safer option if you wanted to go that route. (Like Hijacked did with the long gazebo on the one side, opposite of the bridge) and as well add a jump up point to the roof on the front side too, just like the rear.
I like the panic room idea on skyline a lot especially for hard point
Bo6 felt like 24/7 shipment.
12:25 I love the idea I think it would be better if it was mantle instead of ladder so the noise won’t be as audible and make it a swig position for a team using that route.
The skyline idea is perfect
I hate rewind because of visibility i often have trouble seeing from where im getting shot from exactly
Feels like a modern warfare map
Yes they do.
I saved you watching the video.
i feel another thing that could help skyline is if they increased the height of the hottub in the pool section
lets say if they double it, this would lead to more cover from certain areas and definitely would make holding that hardpoint possible
I thought Skyline was a smaller medium sized map but the improvements you suggested would make it much better. I also agree with your suggestions for Scud. It isn't a bad map but needs a little tweaking. I find it hard to give an opinion on Babylon because the spawns were so bad.
Scud was my favourite. Got some cheeky kills with the red barrels on it 😂
Since it's become so regular to use, trophy systems (and all deployed equipment) should only last a certain amount of time or uses after activation. Mainly for the trophy systems and munitions bags since they were the only ones like that available in the beta.
Maybe 8-10 interceptions/resupplies or two-thirds to 1 full amount of the time to recharge by time (no kills or other points).
There have been too many times I saw 6-8 bags around spawns or 2-3 trophy systems from 1-2 people on certain vantage points.
Don't trophy systems only block 3 projectiles before breaking? Or did BO6 change that?
Dude, I've been watching your videos for a while. I've also watched chrisfix, and I'm sure you're either the same guy or from the same region. Has anybody mentioned this before?. Anyway cheers to you for always having the most informative cod videos.
One thing that is very difficult to analyze due to their core rotation of game modes being the only option is how maps play in certain modes. Certain modes like domination, the spawns sometimes tend to feel much better. There could be some maps where it is just a specific game mode that has spawns that feel bad.
Generally agree with everything you said Ace. None of the maps were awful but none were great either. Skyline definitely seemed a little bit on the smaller side but I'm guessing the 2.5 levels on the map is why it's considered medium. I really like your idea on Skyline to make that pool side of the map less of a death trap. Derelict is meh, a bit too tight, but again, not bad. Rewind is a medium map but half of it was sorta pointless, which makes it feel smaller since all the action is only on like half the map. This also contributed to spawns feeling super distant. On Scud they need to add a way to get up to head glitch on the satellite from the middle of the map (and a Treyarch dev did acknowledge that feedback on Twitter so that seems feasible) to provide more counter play, and also lower it a bit so it's less of a head glitch. Babylon was good for a small map, but spawns were god awful.
I thought they were almost all aweful, literally worst map design I've ever seen
I wonder if adding a canopy like cover over the pool would also help with skyline. It’ll provide some cover over the pool and a way to jump across between the upper levels.
Those Skyline and Satellite maps were some of the worst and most confusing maps I’ve ever played…had no flow whatsoever to them
I really like that extra route idea on Skyline.
I can't help but feel these are Modern warfare/infinityward style maps. Treyarch is all about creating maps with flow, without too many sharp angles and buildings, look at bo2,bo3,bo4... they were completely fantasy settings... Now it's all about taking real life settings and turning them into multiplayer maps.
1000% correct on the map size, while I like the Small Map Moshpit of MWIII it's good to have a few more larger maps to be a bit more tactical at times especially when playing with Mates, so that you can go for the Obj's in a more structued manor, not running around like headless chickens all of the time. Skyline was not "Medium" lol, I like your idea of the Scaffolding/Ladder set up 👍
I very very much agree with your skyline fix. I think it would help a lot
On MW2/3 everyone wanted smaller maps cause the maps in that game is always on the larger side, so everyone played shipment
Now, their analytics showed them we liked small maps and created small maps, not taking the movement into consideration
You think it started with MW2? Lol it's been going on for way longer. People have always their their pants every time it's Nuketown 24/7, going back 10 years now.
The mantle spot on the bedroom side should also be stairs. If you try to mantle and someone is holding that sightline you can’t peek and unpeek without dying
I actually like Derelict. Skyline is very good. Skud and Rewind meh. Babilon is just caos (mainly due to bad spawns) and weapon grinding.
Wow I didn’t know everyone hated scud so much. Imo it was a great map I felt it was a large map but offered a lot of cover everywhere you went. That satellite area didn’t feel too op and I felt I was flanking enemies left and right there. The worst map for me was rewind. It wasn’t as big as scud but if felt huge and empty. You run for ever to get to a position and then get shot from nowhee
skyline reminds me a bit of hijacked, there are a lot of similarities, like the underground "secret passage", and the idea that you are proposing is the path where is open to the left of the central area of hijacked, that path where you can see the ocean and is a little bit safer than going through the middle. i dont know if i explain myself here
Judging by how different launch of mw3 was from the beta I wouldn’t expect the game to be much like the beta on BO6 especially seeing the time gap from beta to launch of BO6 but I hope a lot changes
You nailed it, especially about the Skyline map
They should add a perk that disables omni-movement for other movement buffs
The map situation in Cold War made me and a lot of my friends not enjoy that game hopefully the other maps are better
Cold war maps are good though....at least most of them.
Your proposal for Skyline reminds me of Hijacked with that little lane that you can use to skip the middle portion of the map. That being said, I still think the sprinting speed is too fast for maps like this. In WWII, the sprinting speed was actually reduced when they brought in unlimited sprint
Would add a couple of things about rewind and derelict:
Rewind: the whole road area feels a bit useless and wasted. Same for the small restaurant on the other side of the map. The main indoor bits are also quite cluttered.
Derelict: also very cluttered for it's size. I'd shrink the size of some me or the carts or get rid of one or two of them.
Otherwise generally agree on feedback
I actually enjoyed all the maps really like the smaller map designs it’s amazing to me how quickly the community just completely forgets about how all content creators where crying about the last few years was the large empty maps COD has been dropping. I’d say the only map I didn’t care for much was derelict the train one.
We need maps like STANDOFF RAID !! Bright and clean
Here “rest of the internet” is how you make constructive criticism/feedback
Babalon felt like a larger version of shipment. You could breath for a second if you wanted to but still get into action quick
The derailed train map, Derelict, was horribly balanced. One side spawn has only two exits. The other side has a camping spot and in Domination a lot more B flag area to camp in.
I liked Scud and Skyline the most as an ultra casual CoD player. I did not like rewind since it felt cluttered, busy and I just never caught onto the flow of that map.
I couldn't believe the referenced raid when they tweeted about the maps- Raid is a legendary cod map, and wouldn't be used on the same sentence as these ones
The maps definitiely were my biggest problem with the beta, which I beside from that really liked. I really like your ideas regarding Skyline - in its current state the pool area just always means certain death when staying too long. However I really, really hated Derelict - it felt like one big choke point with three lanes leading towards it. Scud on the other hand was my favorite map of the Beta, it felt like there is a lot of gameplay variety on that map. Babylon... Well, the Pit would be better suited as a regular 6v6 map then the mess of a map Babylon is.
Babylon is a great map.
I think that the map needs the highjacked treatment where part of the pool needs to be reworked as a cover system with how your idea is on that side like stacks of creates / a board walk across that side of the pool to make it more viable
The scaffolding idea makes a lot of sense
Scud is the only map I liked. Cause its open which let's me freely go anywhere I want instead of being limited to a few lanes.
That's because you're a casual
Scud was actually good outside of TDM. I had a few matches where both teams actually fought for the hardpoin and i felt it played really well for that other than a few spawns