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Do Pine Needles Make Soil More Acidic? Truth or Gardening Myth?
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- Опубліковано 13 вер 2014
- Pine needles make a great mulch, but do they make soil acidic, or is this a gardening myth? I ask Stephen Legaree to share his thoughts on the topic. Also, please see the links to sources on this topic below:
Links provided by MrChipGardener:
Forest Industry Council - www.forestindus...
Washington State University - spokane-county....
Links to additional sources:
Colorado State University Extension csuturf.colosta...
GardenMyths.com
www.gardenmyths...
"Decoding Gardening Advice", p. 49
www.amazon.com/...
Stephen also used these references:
Wood Chip Mulch: Landscape Boon or Bane?
puyallup.wsu.ed...
Woodchips.pdf
BorealForest.org
www.borealfores...
Acid Rain Effects - Soils www.elmhurst.ed...
Featured Videos:
Blueberries! A New Edible Perennial in Our Garden - • Blueberries! A New Edi...
I love how you were so honest.
Thanks!
i know I'm kinda off topic but do anyone know a good website to watch new movies online?
@Shane Jackson I would suggest flixzone. You can find it by googling =)
@Kaison Dante yup, have been using Flixzone for years myself =)
@Kaison Dante Thank you, I signed up and it seems to work =) I appreciate it!!
There is nothing more attractive or validating of one’s intelligence than to admit he/she is wrong and seek the right answer.
@Real David Art -- In my view, not entirely wrong. As it appears collected water leaches out acidity.
@@normamimosa5991 well that's assuming rain is acidic. It is but only slightly and it cannot just "leave" all ions in the soil and sink as pure water deeper. Overall acidity is maintained by microorganisms decomposing organic matter. And it tends to be more acidic if there are pure pine trees so in more extreme environment. There are mixed forests with a lot of autumn leaves decomposing along with spring/summer needles. And those aren't quite as acidic despite having similar rain treatment and water retention.
@@Promilus1984 No, it wouldn't be assuming rain is acidic. The rain water leaches out the acidity from the pine needles. Whatever the acidity of pine needles and the effect on the surrounding soil, pine needles are a huge problem in any garden. As I said they belong in the forest, a conducive environment for the needles to decay over decades (hundreds of years maybe). Pine needles are a havoc to any suburban garden. They are a detriment to everything in their way. My advice as a new gardener to all gardeners. GET RID OF PINE TREES, FIR TREES AND PEBBLE STONES..
@@normamimosa5991 except ... needles are wax protected so without microbes water won't leach much out of it anyway.
@@Promilus1984 As I said, they play havoc in a garden, just for themselves.
Great info, I'm going to be using pine needles more often as a mulch. I have a big pine tree in the front yard
Thanks, James! Yeah, I'm going to be using pine needles more liberally now too!
BTW, Steve is correct. It takes a LONG time for pine needles to break down if you mix them in. I still have some from over a year ago. Down here, they break down pretty quickly in the sun and very slow in the soil. To add to my last statement, pine needles for blueberries is also optimal because they hold zero water, it all runs into the soil, all while keeping the soil moist. I have a love hate relationship with pine needles (allergies suck)
Living in areas prone to having a lot of Pine Needles, I would always try to keep them off the garden, because I didn't think they would have anything beneficial to add to the soil or components of a garden bed. If anything, I thought they would harm the soil due to "acidity". lol So, Thank you very much for this tidbit of gardening wisdom!
You're very welcome!
Excellent video! Thanks to you and Stephen for the collaboration. I have an area that I thought surely would be acidic because it is under a large evergreen tree. In the Spring I tested all my soil in preparation for the bio-char trials and found it to be neutral as the rest of my garden areas. Now I have a better understanding as to why.
Thanks ***** ! I'm glad your real-life experience matches what we were saying in the video. Very interesting!
I really enjoyed this video Thanks Patrick and Stephen for the insight!
Thanks suburban homestead !
Great insight. I’ve been avoiding adding pine needles to my compost thinking it would make it acidic. Now I can!
Great video and great collaboration fellas. From a guy living in a mixed forest, thank you for the information!
Thanks, J&J Acres !
I've used pine straw for many years, having lived in a pine forest where the needles are a foot thick on the forest floor. It has never raised the acidity of the soil.
Daniel Wiederkehr
What do I feed an existing rhododendron that looks pale, dull and like blight spots are present.. it needs a good shot of something... is there anything natural I can use and if not, what should I buy that is not expensive ❓ thank you 👍🏻‼️😁
Susan Spencer muriatic acid is what my grandpa does
Andrew Sheppard
thank you👍🏻
Great points made! I actually found this out recently as well and was shocked since I had always read in books and other sources about this phenomena. I use sulfur since finding that out, Like you were using. Espoma garden sulfur is amazing quality, and fantastic for the garden.
***** Thanks, Luke! Yeah, this was a surprise to me too. I'm really glad MrChipGardener brought this to my attention.
OneYardRevolution well what is even more bizarre, is that they made mention of adding pine needles in my master gardening class. It apparently is a VERY common mistake. But better to learn now, then to never learn at all!
***** Yeah, master gardeners have been recommending pine needles as a soil acidifier for a long time! ;-) We humans are just beginning to scratch the surface of what can be known about plants and the soil. That's one reason I like gardening so much. There is always so much to learn.
OneYardRevolution Never to experienced to learn something new!
To be honest I was even caught off guard when Patrick said that after his blueberry video. It was really interesting with most of my work in the boreal It just did not occur to me ! I think what shocked me the most in my research was the Cornell University still had reference to it acidifying soil.
Steve Solomon in his book “gardening when it counts” says more or less, pH doesn’t matter, build good soil and replace minerals, living matter and support the living elements in the soil. I’ve been trying to find a healthy way to keep acidic up for blueberries and I’m really finding very little..... so I’m going to build and support life in the soil and see where that gets me.
I've read a fair amount on the topic from that point of view, and there really seems to be something to it. The soil in my whole region is well-known for being acidic, yet I've never had any apparent pH-related trouble growing various annual veg that supposedly can't stand acidic soil.
I think the issue is that soil tests almost never take a sample directly from the exact root zone where all that microbial activity is (hopefully) taking place. I mean within millimeters of the roots. They always tell you to take several samples from throughout your yard or field and sort of average them out - and I suspect that's not really giving us accurate readings in all cases. The pH may be "wrong" in the row, but perfectly fine in that microbial/root interaction area.
Now if you're drenching your garden or field in synthetic fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides every year, yeah of course you're likely to have pH issues, because you've almost certainly killed off much of the biology that helps even things out. It's almost like an inert hydroponic growing medium at that point, not really soil at all. The extension agents around here just tell me instantly, "You need to apply a ton of lime every year" because they just assume I'm pouring salt-based fertilizers and so forth on everything.
Amazing Patrick. I thought pine needled made the soil acidic. Thank for sharing this info my friend!
Rick
***** Thanks, Rick! I'm glad you found the video informative.
For more than forty years, I believed that pine needles made the soil acidic. I mulched my azaleas, rhodendron, hydrangea etc with pine needles believing that it would make my soil acidic. We are never too old to learn.
I have used layers of pine needles in hugelkultur beds with great success. Thanks for the refresher chat on this topic. You make a great team. Soil talk. We need it.
Thanks, Kelli Nigh! I'm glad to hear you've had good results using pine needles in you hugelkultur beds. If anything, I'll be using pine needles a lot more now that I know they won't turn my soil acidic.
Glad we could help my friend ! Patrick has inspired me to do a whole series on soil and as it were I posted one today.
I'll look for that video. Thanks!
Glad to hear some straight info! I've been hearing a lot of people claim pine needles make soil acidic which in turn makes things difficult to grow under trees.
Thank you for this post. This dispels my preconception about pine needles. Being from the Deep South, I have always used pines needles in large volumes. It is great mulch. I also use hardwood leaves in many applications. I have never been concerned with increasing acidity as a result of these uses. We all have an Ace up our sleeves. And is Lime. It is my understanding that Lime should always be reapplied periodically. Dolomite also replaces trace elements. But thanks for the post, very informative.
Thanks Patrick and Stephen for teaming up on this.
You're very welcome, dakotabob10 !
I live in SE Texas. Had a lot of azaleas at my last home. My grandmother was a great gardener. She had a lot of “old” tips that really worked ! I had quite a lot of pine trees on the outskirts of my property and when I’d clean them up with my blower my grandmother told me to pile them under my azaleas. I had the most beautiful azaleas in our neighborhood! They had so many blooms. People would often ask me what did I do. They only started blooming like crazy after I started adding the pine needles 🤷♀️. My grandmother said they liked the pine needles ??!!
I just recently acquired five large garbage bags of brown pine needles with brown leaves mixed in! My already established compost pile is about 120 degrees at the center and going up! This video was very informative and now I will add the pine needles along with coffee grounds and grass clippings!
I'm glad the video helped!
So interesting to hear this! I've always had a feeling that this is the case, and in order to prove it to some people I know, who also maintain that pine needles "sterilize" soil making it impossible for other plants to grow, I recently spread a 3" deep layer of pine needles on an area of my garden that is in full sun, just so that in spring I can show them how many weeds will have grown there anyway!
Thanks, Anna! I think its great that you actually tested the claim for yourself. That's awesome!
OneYardRevolution Yes, and this video makes it even more interesting to wait and see the results. In reality I don't even need to see the results, because I'm already convinced. In fact, I was thinking about it this morning and realized that people believe nothing will grow under or near pine trees because they acidify the soil, when in reality it's the shade and the fact that the needles create a mulch that suppresses growth - sort of - since I'm already watching lots of wild grasses sprouting up right under the pine trees on my land! I'm going to watch the video again to better understand the process of acidification of forest soil. :-)
Anna Maria Stone You're right. Just the shade and the thick mat of pine needles alone will do a pretty good job of suppressing other plants. Plus the pine needles decompose slowly, which makes them even more effective.
Thank's to both of you , my question have answered, gotta work it now in our garden,, more power and God bless,,
Thank you for the GREAT information!! I have 5-6 huge pine tress in my yards, so now I have lots of free mulch!
You're welcome, Taylor!
Thank you very much for sharing this valuable information -- especially gratifying to see your willingness to learn from another and then share your updated views. We all can benefit from this approach to learning!
living in Northern Ontario myself, i have always dumped the pine needles in the bush and was scared to use them in my gardens. i plant food plots for wildlife in the forests and the Ph there is always around 5.
Very cool Patrick!!
Thanks Adam. Now you can use the pine needles as mulch! I know I'll be using them more often.
Great information! One thing is for sure pine needles take forever to decompose. They also work great for ground cover around garden rows.
Thanks lovers4healthylife !
lovers4healthylife
Have run into mold with the pine needles I’ve used which is disgusting 🤦🏼♀️need help on what to feed a not healthy rhododendron‼️👍🏻😁
Interesting topic! I have to say from experience that using pine needle mulch vs. other natural mulch does make acid loving plants grow better.
Thanks, MiWilderness ! Yeah, pine needles make a great mulch. I'll continue to use them on blueberries and other plants.
which could be exciting to know that pine mulch might be a better mulch for all plants, acidic plants included!
Have you done a controlled test where you put pine needle mulch around one set of plants and a more 'normal' mulch around an equivalent set of plants and looked for long term effects? A side by side test is necessary to make a definitive conclusion.
MiWilderness i
This info will be such a relief for the Pine trees ;-)
That was very interesting, I live on the southern coast of South Carolina and have been using pine needles and bark to try to lower the soil Ph. for my blueberries. I think I will use a soil acidifier and straw mulch to see if that is more effective. Thanks for the information.
I’ve got to subscribe to a guy who provides accurate information as he learns it. No ego there 😍
Here in Provence (France), we are constantly told to get rid of our two pine trees because of the high acidity of their needles. I did indeed chop down the biggest near (because too close to the house), but the flowers, two grape vines and variety of different plants countue to flourish in a deep topsoil enrichened by decades of fallen pine tree needles. I also notice that our newly planted hedge in a different section of the garden dominated by three huge cypress trees!
Thanks for the information Patrick and Stephen!
You're welcome, Learn To Grow !
This is still one of my favorite collaborations.
My thoughts are that I am glad I saw this video. I just got a big double load of fresh mulch free from the tree trimmers in the neighborhood. I saw it had a lot of pine needles and worried it would raise my already acidic soil, and leave me with a huge blueberry bed in my future instead of multi-use. I am going to spread it out for a future permaculture inspired bed, partial shade. I am so excited I got that wonderful free gift today.
I'm glad the video was helpful and timely, Andi!
Andi. I just had to say, I love Bernie. Check out my channel,I think you will like the video I posted today called rock the vote. :)
Thanks for the definitive answer! I just brought home 20 giant bags of lawn debris that are mainly full of pine needles. Glad to know for sure it's ok to use them as mulch on the garden.
Good for you to come back amd correct yourself
I found a supply of pine needles mixed with grass clippings that I got from a neighbor. I am happy that i can use this free resource for mulching . I also use it as a land slide protection layer and places where we dump.our laundry water. It works great.
Colorado has a lot of pine forests, and we're famous for our alkaline soil. To grow blueberries here, one must plant them with no contact with the native soil. A county extension guy recommended digging a hole, putting in a bag of peat with holes poked in the bottom, and planting the bush in the bag. We didn't like the idea of having plastic in our soil and instead planted blueberry bushes in large half whiskey barrels. They're doing well. I live very close to the mountains, and our soil has a high PH.
Hi Pamela! I'm glad your blueberries are doing well. We add elemental sulfur to our blueberry bed to keep the pH down. Peat helps too, as your county extension guy recommended.
I love running through the forest, which we are lucky to have a huge urban park, Pt. Defiance only 5 miles away. The smell - the soil. So, I decided to try a test. Under my huge pine tree in my front yard I decided to do a small compost. Grass clippings, dry leafs (which I got from the park) and all the pine needles from the tree. This spring I have the most amazing compost! I also used coffee grounds (Thank you Starbucks). I hate the fight with slugs. I heard slugs love Hosta. I have 3 of them under my pine tree, which are surrounded by pine needles. I used to rake them up to make the flower bed look nicer. Now I leave them to deter slugs. I too thought the pine needles were acidic but all the plants seem to do great. I am going to use pine needles around my plants to try to keep away the slugs because the needles are sharp. This video cleared up some of my thoughts about the needles. I love your videos and also Stephen's. Both show much knowledge and scientific facts than a lot of them. Plus, I live here in Tacoma and Washington University is right here. I more could I ask for? Thanks for the info.
Thanks, Sheri! I'm glad the video was helpful. We use pine needles in compost and mulch too.
Excellent video patrick. You did a very good job with this one. It was so nice to see you on camera.
Thanks, High Desert Garden ! I appreciate it.
I've used pine straw on peonies roses and red currants. These enjoy alkalinity. They all grow great in it. Love the stuff!
We use it as mulch too. It's an excellent mulch.
Pine needles don't make soil acidic. It seems counter-intuitive but glad to hear it explained plainly. Thanks!
You're very welcome, Jim S !
OneYardRevolution Thanks for the video and setting the story straight about pine needles.
You're very welcome, the mustard seed today !
Thank you and your guest for clearing up some common misconceptions. I'll be using elemental sulpher as my acidifier to bring down the pH in my slightly alkaline soil.
Thanks for the video. I just started using pine needles for mulch around my apple trees and it works better than any other mulch I have tried for holding back the weeds. I was worried, however, that I might be making the soil too acidic. Seeing your video, I will offer to rake up my neighbor's needles and put them to good use!
You're welcome, Ted! I'm glad to hear you're putting the pine needles to good use.
Just a heads-up - when shopping for soil acidifiers you should know that some of them are based upon "aluminum" and not sulfur. Both "can" be labeled as "natural" but, I would rather keep the aluminum out of my soil and my food, albeit, it would only add micro amounts to the food.
David Duvall Excellent point! Look for sulfur, not aluminum sulfate.
Acidity of a solution of a chemical depends on its concentration. If you grind up pine needles and test its pH without adding water, it is very acidic. After decomposting (by action of bacteria and fugus), the decomposed pine needle has an unknown pH depending on what the bacterial and fungal actions are. Even then the decomposed pine needles will be much diluted by rain water which raises it pH to closer to 7. Pine needles are just like tree leaves as they both add organic matter to your soil that eventually turn into humic acid. Any organic matter is better than no organic matter, except when there is so inhibiting chemical present in the organic matter. Never worry too much about pH cause plants are pretty flexible and adapting. As long as there are enough essential minerals, a lot of organic matter (humic acid), good drainage, a right amount of sun light and heat, and good aeration, any plant should grow well.
just purchased aluminum sulfate since the pine needles weren't doing anything for my blueberries. Needed something quick.
Elemental Sulfur will work but takes a long time, very proactive.
Very cool how the acidity travels up in the boreal forest. Thanks and much love
I have a lot of spruce trees and one pine tree on a vacant lot I own. One year, I had an extra tomato plant that I grew from seedling but nowhere to put it. I never had any success with tomato plants in pots, but I had an extra pot and thought I'd give it a go. Problem was, I was out of potting soil. SO I figured, what the hell. I wen under one of the spruce trees and pushed aside the 6 inches of fallen, brown, dead spruce needles and some dead pine needles as well. Underneath was a very black, rich-looking, soft soil. So I decided to use that soil in my pot, but since I needed a drainage medium I decided to use the spruce and pine needs (mostly spruce needles). I mixed the soil and needles together, about 2 parts soil and 1 part needles. Not only did the tomato plant grow beautifully with lots of tomatoes, but it was the best tomato plant I grew that year. Take from this story what you want. So from that point forward, I started using pine needles as mulch for my beds. I don't use spruce needles simply because they prick my fingers/hands when I plant stuff (I plant with bare hands). Unfortunately, I will have to cut that pine tree down someday soon as it is too large and shading too much of my property. No more free mulch :(
You're right. Pine needles are an excellent mulch. We usually add some to the garden every year. We don't have a pine tree but a couple of our neighbors do.
As a kid my parents had several pine trees on their property. The needles would make a very thick barrier to deter weeds. Seems like a good, but prickly mulch. Enjoy the start of your fall weather! -Eric
Yeah, pine needles make a great mulch. I'll continue to use them on our blueberries and will also use them elsewhere in the garden.
Thanks for checking it out. I live in suburban neighborhood called Majestic Oaks and man do I have a lot of oak leaves. I hate putting them out on the curb. Thanks again!
+Thomas Scarbrough You're very welcome, Thomas!
Thanks for this video! I’m here because I just uprooted some evergreens for more garden space. I was told I need to treat the soil for acid before anything will grow. I’m glad it’s not so. 😃 Thanks 🙏🏼
Thank you for your honesty. I was literally going to the hardware store today to get pine needles. Thanks again!
Thanks for such great videos.This one is very interesting. I have 4 blueberry plants in 30inch pots. Our soil is naturally chalky, so acid loving plants don't thrive in the ground. I use a wood chip mulch and I started with organic ericaceous compost. When we have dry spells watering is my problem as our water is also very chalky. Thanks for the info about cider vinegar, I've never been sure how much to add. I look forward to seeing more on perennial veg and fruit plants.
You're very welcome, Hazel Fox ! I haven't looked too much into using apple cider vinegar, but I think people use about 1/4 or 1/3 cup of vinegar to 1 gallon of water and use it no more than once per week. I'm not sure what the pH of this mixture would be, so please be careful and start slow if you try it. Have you tested the pH of your ericaceous compost? How are the blueberries doing?
I haven't tested, Iwill do that. They produced this year and there was quite a lot but there isn't much new growth and the foliage is a little sparce. I may have been under watering because concern about the alkaline water. Thanks for your info.
Can't argue on facts. Well explained thanks for sharing.
I have a lot of pine and blue spruce trees on my property. Last year, I ran out of potting soil. Instead of buying another bag, I decide to see what would happen if I made potting soil out of 50% dead, dried pine and spruce needles and 50% dirt from under these needles. I planted a tomato plant I had grown from seed (Pruden's Purple Heirloom potato leaf variety). The result was that it was one of my best producing tomato plants last year. Hardly scientific, but my plant did not die, it was my best plant and it produced very well.
I'm not surprised it did well. 🍅
when you have a very low "3.5" pH pine needle drop to the soil it gets wet and a molecular chain(what once was alive and collecting molecules from the air/water faster because of the pH) breaks off and rebinds with the surrounding soil molecules allowing for a greater rate of rebinding(of hydrogen or lowering pH) until this rate stabilizes. The pine tree roots also release a lower pH from their epidermis(root bark) further stabilizing the lowered ph to inhibit other plants as a strategy to out compete other plant forms. In this it is very efficient!
Great information! Thanks for sharing your knowledge. It seems like most people agree that peat moss will lower the PH of the soil. This new bit of information causes me to wonder if that is also a gardening myth.
Thanks, Living Landscapes ! It would be interesting to learn more about how much the pH of peat moss transfers to surrounding soils.
Thanks for this info. Very helpful. I've spent $30 on wood chips for weed suppressing mulch this year and was planning on buying another yard @ $15. I know wood chips are good for feeding the earthworms and make good compost as well but I've got tons of pine needles that I can use for free.
Paul Ladendorf You're very welcome Paul!
Thanks so much for being humble enough to do the research and share it here.
Now that was very interesting, Guys! I among I'm sure many others always thought that they would indeed make the soil acidic. I knew that they break down very slowly, but didn't understand the changes they go through during that process! Thanks for this valuable info!
Thanks, keyplayr61 ! I thought the same thing until MrChipGardener sent me those links!
Two people that I love to learn from are featured in this video!!! Great information! Thanks!
Thanks, Ingrid!
Thanks for the information! I planted blueberries last Fall. I did mix in some pine needles, but, also some peat moss and sulfer. I don't think I used nearly enough, though. I added more sulfer early this spring...again, not nearly enough. The bushes are alive, but, haven't grown all that much. Maybe if I keep adding sulfer, one of these years I'll finally get there. :-)
The surfer for slowly changing pH is available for surface application. Just don't hit it too hard my friend. Microbes are the intermediary from the product to the acidity.
You're very welcome, Tim Sheets! I used Espoma Soil Acidifier and followed their application recommendations when I planted our blueberries. I believe they also recommend a smaller surface application in subsequent years, which I plan to do as well.
I’ve come to realize that blueberries need a Ph of 4.8 which I’d below that of pure peat. You will only get this with sulfur.
I don't remember if I commented on this one, but I had to watch it again. Great video for sure!
Thanks, FesterWerks !
Excellent..I have heard so many different things, but you took the time to get a real expert on the topic..Thank you, this video is greatly appreciated, sorry im 7 years late to the pary..lol
Where has Patrick got off to? We miss this solid fact based approach. Results matter. Nice work!!! Hope to see your work on these topics again. Cheers!!! SnJ
Your honesty (and great gardening ideas) is why I love your channel. Stephen also has a great channel and he approaches many 9f his experiments with a true, honest scientific approach.
Small exception to the rule. If pine needles keep accumulating, they create a separate layer of soil above the mineral soil...this, combined with the rain, creates some acidic humus due to the humic acids and tanins. But this happens only on certain occasions (abscense of mixing of layers)
Where i live, soil is chalky and dry (pine needles accumulate and most of the times, the rain can't leach tanins and various acids from this layer) but underneath pine trees, this humus layer i described is way more acidic (ph 5.5) than the calcareous soil underneath.
Thank you so much for this information and for calling in an expert. This is truly helpful.
Even listening a few times, I couldn't understand his explanation of why pine forests have acidic soil. Guess I don't know what "buffering" and some of his other terminology mean. But I get the point, and it's an important one, so thanks!
Yup entirely correct. I use Christmas tree mulch that the city gives us every year for our urban garden. It doesn't acidify the soil. Like any organic matter, it'll ferment anaerobically and acidify if you bury it quite deep (it'll also stink), but that's all. As a mulch, pine stuff (bark, needles etc...) tend to make a brown humus instead of the usual black humus people get from leaves, straw or regular wood chips. But is nor worse nor better than regular humus.
haha! so the whole time i was mulching pine needle on my blueberry thinking that it would lower the ph...now all that hard work gone. Good info! I need a coffee break with my blueberry...
UtopianDr3ams How did the blueberries do? Did you add anything else to bring down the pH? On the positive side pine needles to make a great mulch.
i am just now seeing this?! this is from 2014! okay i guess i haven't caught up on all your videos. lol. perfect timing tho! this in reference to using eggshells,coffee grounds and banana peels in my planting holes. so i WON'T be digging the pine needles this year. better left as a covering. i just got really tired of walking on dirt. i know i know i shouldn't be walking on the dirt. i just can't help myself. and the pine needles feel good under my house slippers! well now that i know how to hook into the links i feel so much pressure is off! thank you one yard revolution!👍
You're welcome! Yeah, it's best to use pine needles as mulch.
Thanks for this, I am going to try to plant some random gardens in our pine tree land to see if anything grows more for fun. I do plan to add some soil additives to help a bit. Not sure if anything will grow but I feel it is worth a try. Thanks so much!
What an outstanding video. Patrick, you have by far some of the most informative videos regarding gardening on UA-cam. Keep up the good work!!
***** Thanks! I'm glad you liked the video and appreciate your feedback.
Great collaboration and great info. Answers my query and my friends' questions as to what to do with fallen pine needles in the highlands.
+Oggie Ramos Thanks, I'm glad you found the information helpful.
Have not done a soil test , However my Fuji apple seems to "regulate" my Independence Nectarine has grown 6 inches in 4 months from freshly transplanting with no amendments ... Thanks for the links !
That's great Rick Wonder NatureDude ! You're very welcome for the links!
Great video Patrick. I guess I have wasted my time mulching blueberries with pine needles and coffee grounds though I am sure they do have a benfit to the soil generally. It looks like I will just have to buy some flower of sulphur for the blueberries.
Thanks, The Productive Garden ! I don't think you've wasted your time at all. Pine needles are a great mulch and coffee grounds have nutrients your blueberries need. Yeah, so far a yearly application of sulfur seems like the best remedy. Thanks for watching!
Pine needles in garden are a real, negative mess. Rake them up and use decent mulch.
Bonjour, très intéressant car j'ai environ 20 m3 de broyat de résineux suite à l'abattage de 10 sapins épicéa et ici en France quasiment tout le monde dit que le broyat de résineux est à bannir au potager. Cette vidéo me rassure dans le test que je compte mener. Donc un grand merci 😉
The year before planting blueberries work the ground and add Sulfur and soil amendments - make the raised bed over the worked soil and do the same thing. Jumbo Red Clover grew fine in the acidic soil and worked as a cover crop. Test the soil PH every couple of months and adjust the Sulfur amendment a little bit at a time. The following year I had perfect PH for my blueberry plants. Local farm supply stores and the MFA in this area [Missouri, USA] have bags of Sulfur for the purpose of changing soil PH. Adding sulfur to the soil below the raised bed and using the raised bed help to create a buffer zone between the PH needed by blueberries and the natural soil PH we have here.
Great advice, David Duvall ! I ended up using a sulfur amendment as well.
Thanks for that Patrick & *****.. We don't get much pine mulch here so haven't tried it myself..
I have seen it mentioned along with used coffee grounds in "infographics" on FaceBook & the like as well as in a few other YT clips as a suitable way to lower pH for berry crops..
I busted the coffee grounds myth for myself a while back & found ours sit around 6.6 so not very acidic at all.. That would be something you would of noticed a while back yourself with the amount of coffee you add to improve your soils there..
Cheers & all the best to you both..
Thanks too to MrChipGardener I should add ;-)
Glad we could help ! I do have to say thank you to MrChipGardener. As well !
Rob Bob I'm glad to hear you busted the used coffee grounds pH myth. A pH of 6.6 is really perfect for a vegetable garden! Did you do it in a video and I somehow missed it?
OneYardRevolution I did a clip but canned it as another tuber posted a clip on using them to lower pH the same week.. I didn't want to come off like I was having a shot at them..
Am about to make a coffee so might as well have another go ;-)
Rob Bob Yeah, I know what you mean. Enough time has passed now though, so it's time to bust the myth!
I have a HUGE pine tree in my yard, and I use the pine needles every year for my garden,, and I grow pretty much EVERYTHING we can in the PNW, and they do not seem to change my soil ph at all. They are very handy for mulch!!
We have two enormous pines that put out soooo much mulch it would be a really plentiful source of mulch for me but I was so afraid of the acidity issue..... Inspired by Ruth Stouts book i was using straw this year but it does seed quite a bit.... No more straw...... I will be mulching with pine needles!!! Thanks ***** and OneYardRevolution
Glad we could help!
Prachi Wicks I'll definitely be using more pine needles to mulch my garden too!
I live in Canada. All my tropical plants have been living in pine needle filled pots for years. They are much easier to move inside before winter.
Hello! Thank you for this vid. I have so many free pine needles as a source of mulch! Thank you that you answered my question! I can now go and gather as much as I want! Greetings from Bulgaria
Greetings, Sam! I'm glad the video helped.
OYR Frugal & Sustainable Organic Gardening Oh thank you! It helped tremendously! Blessings to you!
I've found needles and shedding from all evergreens make great crumbly compost and soil beneath evergreen shrubs. Just check out the ground under your evergreens and see the black rich soil. Earthworm food.
I noticed the white arches in the upper right. I believe that those may be 1/2 PEX that comes in 5 or 10 foot lengths. I accidentally found them at Lowe's when I was looking for flexible PVC for plastic or screen cover frame for my raised gardens. PVC isn't flexible enough for sharp curves, but PEX works great.
MrGruffy 44 I agree. Pine needles make a great mulch. We use 1/2" PVC for our low tunnels.
So informational! Thank you!! I live in coastal South Carolina with pine trees and somewhat acidic soil researching more natural soil amendments. I want to plant rabbit-eye blueberries. I DON'T want to use peat. What are alternatives to make the soil acidic that avoids negative environmental impacts? Thanks for your great channel!
I know this comment is quite late, but urea sulfate is good.
I enjoy both you guys’ channels and have been a subscriber for some time. I stand on the yes/no line regarding this topic. I want to begin by saying; I would not choose or recommend pine needles as a primary source for soil acidification particularly relating to gardening. There are faster acting and more effective options available. However, I believe to sweepingly say no, pine needles do not impact soil acidity is bit remiss. I would be surprised to see soil pH changes in the decomp of pine needles in Canada, unless it was an extensive and very long term study. I would not be surprised to see soil pH changes in the decomp of pine needles in the southern U S, under the same research criteria. In my experience and research, I believe they can attribute to soil acidification and play a role in maintaining acidity; however, it’s not a short term process. I also believe that part of the reason for what is viewed as conflicting information, yes vs no, has to do with such factors as, species, parent material and climate. Love your videos…keep em’ rollin’, and don't rely on pine needles for soil acidification. :)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Momma Dirt ! I agree 100% that home gardeners shouldn't rely on pine needles for soil acidification, and that's the primary message we wanted to communicate.
***** , what do you think about the broader questions that Momma Dirt raises?
My experience and expertise is the boreal forest and there the water contact time typically causes the pH change. One of my projects we took upland area and built a wetland. We were able to track the pH change over three years and it went from neutral to well on it's way to acidic.
The pine needles would not have had enough time to decompose in that time frame. So yes your right it's not what changes it quickly but might have an extreme long term effect but could
Yep up until a few years ago I thought they would raise acidity....seemed to make sense. But after some research on University web sites I corrected my self. I am using spruce boughs and needles for mulch whenever I can get them!
Aesome video - Thank you!
Mike 👍😁🇨🇦
Great info and great job on the video. Thanks Patrick.
Thanks, Mr. B!
So, it would be safe to use pine needles for garden mulch? Slow to break down, doesn't change the pH, sounds like a winner to me.
Gideon Gardens Absolutely, pine needles make a great mulch!
Yup still safe to use :)
Fabulous information. Thank you for posting.
At about 3:07 Mr. Legaree sort of fails to completely explain why the soil is acidic. He says the buffering capacity is not there any longer. What he meant was that the soil colloids, clay and humus, have been washed down lower into the soil profile by the heavy rainfall. The soil colloids act to hold ions in place. Without the colloids the precipitation will deliver a constant flow of hydrogen ions that make the soil water solution acidic (rain contains nitric acid). In addition the soil minerals that would normally react with the hydrogen ions and neutralize them have been washed out by the high precipitation. If the colloids were there, the ions (hydrogen and nutrient ions) would be clinging to those and the effect would be to buffer (dampen out the fluctuations) of the pH and also to deliver nutrients stored on the colloids to the soil water solution as the hydrogen pushes those off the colloids. The parent material also makes a difference.
If you want to grow blueberries grow them in sand and feed them various nutrients they need and a small very small amount of sulfuric acid. The plants need some amount of sulfur and the hydrogen would produce the acidic condition that the plants want. Keeping the pH at the proper level would require constant testing and adding the correct amount constantly as sand has no buffering capacity.
Thanks for the clarification.
baddoggie101 Thank yo for the clarification. I appreciate it !
thank you for your knowledge!
I saw blueberries need fungal material because they have no root hairs. So sand would need some organic material to support the fungi.
I used to live in the largest Ponderosa pine forest in the US and the soil there was very alkaline. We had to constantly amend the soil when we were growing out the farm.
yeah acidity is due to rainfall and geography. dry places typically are more alkaline and pine forests at least in the west and south west are dry places. only reason they have pine trees is altitude makes it a bit more hospitable but broadleaved trees cant survive so only pine survives. the southern us is wet and acidic so is the amazon and most rainforests.
@@billyd7628 exactly. I lived in the high desert. We had pinion pine, ponderosa, occasional birch tree assuming there was a pond or stream. Otherwise pine and really drought resistant grass was what grew best. On our farm we did grow a lot of drought tolerant maple trees. But most of those only survived because we tended to them. After the farm sold, they died because the owners never took care of them.
I find this very interesting. The thing that would convince me is if someone took a soil ph, added pine needles as a mulch and reported back after a year and then after a couple of years.
Here in the in England, what I use to mulch around my four blueberries bush's is bark, these I grow in large pots because of the soil they need, I don't know if this helps with the pH levels, but it keeps the weeds down. Also I only water them with rain water from the two water butts which I keep just for this on my allotment, because tap water I think has a high pH level.
Mike p I'm pretty sure that wood chips and bark also won't bring down the pH much, but this is something I would have to research further to be sure. It's a great idea to use rain water instead of tap water. Rain water has a pH of around 5.6.
So, I can rake the pine needles and add it to my compost pile too or use as mulch for the garden. I purposely not use them in the past thinking they will increase acidity. Thanks guys.
Yes, they make great mulch and you don't have to save them for your acid loving plants!
Marry they make a great mulch :)
My mom had a very old prine tree in her front that was almost 100 years old.After the pines tree was gone due to hi wind and age i planted a garden were it was and OMG did the plants grow. They grew 2 to 3 times fasts and bigger then i have ever seen.
The zucinnis and tamatoes both acually started to vine across the yard for many feet.
So there definatly was positive effect from the pine tree. This was a short needle pine tree.
This may be why my blueberries have never grown well. I do use a little bit of Hollytone in the spring and late summer or fall, but I'm cheap so I use purchased fertilizers as little as possilble. I usually rely on "acidic" mulches with lots of coffee grounds and some pine needles to provide acidity. Maybe I should do more frequent fertilizing in addition to my mulching. The soil looks beautiful....but my pine mulch and coffee grounds aren't adding acidity like i thought they were.
You're probably right, Laura. I hated to do it, but I broke down and started using Espoma Soil Acidifier for our blueberries. It's an organic sulfur amendment. It will definitely bring down the pH better than pine needles and coffee grounds!
Great video, thanks! Nice to see two of my favourites in one video!
Thanks!
So what do you use. I didn't catch the product you had in the video. Interesting lol, so many people think pine needles are the way to go. Thanks for the information and bringing in an expert to clarify things. Always informative. God Bless! Janice
jksatte You're very welcome, Janice. I used an organic sulfur amendment on my blueberries (Espoma Soil Acidifier). Though peat isn't the most sustainable resource, this is one case in which I used it in the garden. It will definitely bring down the pH.
This is good to KNOW, bc I been adding pine needles to my clay soil, and leave mold