Whoever transcribed the "meat" of the exotic and exquisite harmonies that (I assume) the Fowlers were responsible for originally, they left most of it on the tape. FAIL, but still a worthwhile Homage.
the harmonies themselves are correct in the notes & chords, but my theory is that the Persuasions- brilliant and authentic as they are - are throwing it off a bit. some of the barber shop inflections like the vibrato et cetera will grinding against the entire other Harmony group. this is like an 8 part harmony so they really have to be closely tied together
Respectfully disagree. There are notes missing. Perhaps left out to make room for the vocal group, but definitely missing. Counting the instrumental parts, I'd rough it out at MORE than 8 voices. It's not four part chorale writing for certain. If it's one thing Zappa roundly hated it was the rules imposed on composers that STARTED with four part chorale writing. If he thought eleven notes (quote unquote) sounded more "bitchin" at a certain place in the proceedings, then eleven was what he wrote or dictated to the guys who did the orchestration heavy lifting. (Fowler, Marquez, George Duke ot any number of the conductors, etc.). All the notes in the MELODY are there. What vocal eccentrics usually (ONLY) care about. I made part of my living transcribing stuff like this (B,S&T, Chase, groups that weren't anything even remotely resembling Barber Shop. Closer to Prokofiev, Ravel or Rachmaninoff maybe.) It doesn't mean I don't respect the performance. (Zappa himself endlessly recycled himself.....) I prefer the Broadway the Hard Way iteration. Chevys and Fords...
You just proved my point. You're talking about the VOCALS. I'm talking about the entire composition. The notes matter, and there are a LOT of them that are missing and they have NOTHING to do with what's being sung. Listen closer, to things that don't conduct their business with regard to the lyrics...lol. The densities in the (particularly) horn parts are nowhere to be found. Either mix-wise or otherwise. It's okay to prefer the vocals stomping everything else out of existence. It was a choice made for those circumstances. That's commonplace now. Just know what it is when you see/experience it. No harm, no foul, but music's rather a lot "dumber" than it used to be and vocals have survived that trend without even noticing it. Now, if you want to talk about Gene Puerling or the Manhattan Transfer (or even better, the Four Freshmen) THEN the good times can roll. That's when the music business wasn't riddled with incompetence like it is now. Those guys were who were being referred to as (figuratively, it was about record executives, but they at least had some residual taste rub off) "Cigar Chompers" who didn't care that "Absolutely Free" wasn't just "Three Widdle Fishes". That time is past and just like the lyric in "Yo' Cats", music has died as a result.....
Ricktpt1 Your correct that much of Bruce Fowlers horn parts are missing as well as Toms bass lines were changed by Mike Kenealy, he is who transcribed this event I was lucky enough to attend ,even with Kenealy being a genius in his own rite I doubt anybody other than FZ himself would have been able to leave the missing parts in and still leave room for the Persuasions vocals ,even more importantly somehow make the Persuasions vocals range mesh with the correct time signature and missing parts ,I can't envision where Bruce's missing Trombone would in any way mesh with the Timber of the Persuasions ,I think Mike Kenealy, Joel Thome and Sal Scarpa did an excellent job transcribing ,arranging and presenting " Zappas Universe " ,the whole concept of the concert was NEVER intended to be a note for note replica of any Zappa performance, something Frank would have Abhored and refrained from in his own arrangements ,the motive behind this concerts arrangements was to give the average person who knew Frank's legend, but knew little of his music ,to present those people watching on television a wide assortment of Frank's music while leaving it melodically accessible to the toe tapping crowd.
Unfortunately this song isn't on the "Zappa's Universe" album =/ I think it is beetween "Jesus Had Just Left the Buildind" and "Brown Shoes Don't Make It"
Love this version, mainly because of the Persuasions vocal stylings. The orchestra dragged a bit throughout the show as I remember (but they do have a habit of doing that, right Frank?). Smashing guitar solo cloning Mike.
These people wouldn't take any kind of pain from the show director. Which is just a corny way of saying that they didn't have a Frank Zappa type to whip 'em into shape.
Whoever transcribed the "meat" of the exotic and exquisite harmonies that (I assume) the Fowlers were responsible for originally, they left most of it on the tape. FAIL, but still a worthwhile Homage.
the harmonies themselves are correct in the notes & chords, but my theory is that the Persuasions- brilliant and authentic as they are - are throwing it off a bit. some of the barber shop inflections like the vibrato et cetera will grinding against the entire other Harmony group. this is like an 8 part harmony so they really have to be closely tied together
Respectfully disagree. There are notes missing. Perhaps left out to make room for the vocal group, but definitely missing. Counting the instrumental parts, I'd rough it out at MORE than 8 voices. It's not four part chorale writing for certain. If it's one thing Zappa roundly hated it was the rules imposed on composers that STARTED with four part chorale writing. If he thought eleven notes (quote unquote) sounded more "bitchin" at a certain place in the proceedings, then eleven was what he wrote or dictated to the guys who did the orchestration heavy lifting. (Fowler, Marquez, George Duke ot any number of the conductors, etc.). All the notes in the MELODY are there. What vocal eccentrics usually (ONLY) care about. I made part of my living transcribing stuff like this (B,S&T, Chase, groups that weren't anything even remotely resembling Barber Shop. Closer to Prokofiev, Ravel or Rachmaninoff maybe.) It doesn't mean I don't respect the performance. (Zappa himself endlessly recycled himself.....) I prefer the Broadway the Hard Way iteration. Chevys and Fords...
You just proved my point. You're talking about the VOCALS. I'm talking about the entire composition. The notes matter, and there are a LOT of them that are missing and they have NOTHING to do with what's being sung. Listen closer, to things that don't conduct their business with regard to the lyrics...lol. The densities in the (particularly) horn parts are nowhere to be found. Either mix-wise or otherwise. It's okay to prefer the vocals stomping everything else out of existence. It was a choice made for those circumstances. That's commonplace now. Just know what it is when you see/experience it. No harm, no foul, but music's rather a lot "dumber" than it used to be and vocals have survived that trend without even noticing it. Now, if you want to talk about Gene Puerling or the Manhattan Transfer (or even better, the Four Freshmen) THEN the good times can roll. That's when the music business wasn't riddled with incompetence like it is now. Those guys were who were being referred to as (figuratively, it was about record executives, but they at least had some residual taste rub off) "Cigar Chompers" who didn't care that "Absolutely Free" wasn't just "Three Widdle Fishes". That time is past and just like the lyric in "Yo' Cats", music has died as a result.....
Well guys it is on UA-cam. Ya know? I mean, it' s UA-cam ya know?
This version is superior
Nicely done ...am a big Zappa fan ....cant believe he is gone
4ever good i love this damn tune !!!
"My naaaaaaame isnt Bobby!" hahaha
Love it!! 🤣🤣
Brilliant solo
Thanks frank
Thanks for posting this. I thoroughly enjoyed it!
@panther029
And it's really hard to find it today. That's why i put it on youtube...
i bought the vid ages ago ..... fantastic u guys :)))))
Great solo, well done mike. Zappa's only version, i think, is on broadway the hard way album.
RIP Sweet Joe Russell.
If you see him, wish Frank a Happy Mother's Day for me.
Ricktpt1 Your correct that much of Bruce Fowlers horn parts are missing as well as Toms bass lines were changed by Mike Kenealy, he is who transcribed this event I was lucky enough to attend ,even with Kenealy being a genius in his own rite I doubt anybody other than FZ himself would have been able to leave the missing parts in and still leave room for the Persuasions vocals ,even more importantly somehow make the Persuasions vocals range mesh with the correct time signature and missing parts ,I can't envision where Bruce's missing Trombone would in any way mesh with the Timber of the Persuasions ,I think Mike Kenealy, Joel Thome and Sal Scarpa did an excellent job transcribing ,arranging and presenting " Zappas Universe " ,the whole concept of the concert was NEVER intended to be a note for note replica of any Zappa performance, something Frank would have Abhored and refrained from in his own arrangements ,the motive behind this concerts arrangements was to give the average person who knew Frank's legend, but knew little of his music ,to present those people watching on television a wide assortment of Frank's music while leaving it melodically accessible to the toe tapping crowd.
You might be true
But it's great to have this recording
ty bzurgland u got good taste
I love how there are 8 male singers, 4 Black and 4 White and they are kept separated by their race, but more likely because of their vocal tones.
replica from zappa's original solo ;)
How did mike keneally do that
Unfortunately this song isn't on the "Zappa's Universe" album =/ I think it is beetween "Jesus Had Just Left the Buildind" and "Brown Shoes Don't Make It"
Not quite duke Ellington but bad ass for a white boy. This guy fused many styles successfully.
Um for Mamagazzi...
My new language. Whaddaya think?
Love this version, mainly because of the Persuasions vocal stylings. The orchestra dragged a bit throughout the show as I remember (but they do have a habit of doing that, right Frank?).
Smashing guitar solo cloning Mike.
These people wouldn't take any kind of pain from the show director. Which is just a corny way of saying that they didn't have a Frank Zappa type to whip 'em into shape.
Beautiful, but what the hell is up with the dodgy vocal harmonies?