Jim Cornette on Lex Luger's Derailed Title Runs
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
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I think what really hurt him was his WCW World Title run that lasted less than a week in August, 1997.
I never understood that. That big celebration was wasted.
Yeah that killed him dead. Obviously Sting had too be the guy too beat Hogan but they could've given Luger a solid one or two month reign i.e. a transitional champ but it would've given him credibility/not make him look like a flash in the pan. The SS nonsense killed him too
"Doesn't work for me, brother. Can't be more than a week."
Lex not going over Yoko was horrible. I was very mad at the WWF for that
The "Lex Express" came to my town of Springfield Illinois. It was at shopping center.
The line was a mile bleeping long.
Yeah I remember thinking as a kid there was no way Lex wasn’t winning the title and when he didn’t it was the most anti climatic finish
For all the people dissing Luger on his ring ability, let's see in his days in NWA/WCW, he did 1. torture rack 2. powerslam. 3. crossbody. 4.superlex 5. ddt 6.dropkick 7. sunset flip 8.attitude adjustment piledriver 9. clothline/lariat 10. flying elbow 11. back body drop 12.hiptoss 13. arm drag 14.figure 4 (granted a botched version) 15. atomic drop 16.boston crab 17.running back breaker 18.stone colder stunner (yeap he did that against Pillman)....I am not even counting kicks and punches. There, name the same amount of moves out of a HHH or even Shawn Michaels or even Brett Hart for that matter. Luger only kind of letting his ring ability go to the waste after he got to the WWF. Perhaps it was the motor cycle accident, or the age or perhaps he was pretty much disillusioned after the corny All American gimmick and failed title push.
Luger only had decent matches when Flair and Steamboat carried him. Even Windham couldn’t get a decent match out of Lex.
And personality wise he could never be a baby face. Fake smile and couldn’t cut a promo to save his life. Just listen to Bruce Prichard describe how hard it was to get a Happy Thanksgiving Survivor Series open done.
Did you just ..... insinuate LEX LUGER is a better worker than Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart? lmfao. How about this: they each did 500 more moves than this, against each other, in ONE Wrestlemania Iron Man match loooooool. God, such a good point ruined by the worst logic in history at the end.
One thing about Luger that used to irritate the hell out of me was his constant flexing. When he does a move, flex. When he gets beat up, counter and flex. When he's in trouble, power out and flex. I love his personality, but that constant muscle man routine was too much!
I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you wanted to hold off on putting the belt on Lex till Mania, then make the match at Summerslam Non-Title. Luger had enough push and Yoko had enough heat with the "America vs. Foreign Heel" gimmick template that you could have sold it. Have Lex fight for the honor of America instead of the title (with Yoko refusing to put the belt on the line...the only way he'd agree to a match with Luger in the first place). That way Lex can win the match clean, and you can then have the long chase to Mania (maybe have Luger get screwed out of a title match on Raw or at Survivor Series or something along the way) with Luger winning the Royal Rumble and then going on to win till Mania. Heck, with this build you could even save the Lex Express tour for the literal Road to Wrestlemania, having it start in LA and end in New York as a Coast to Coast tour.
And if Luger loses heat along the chase in the fall, you still have the Royal Rumble exit ramp with Bret and an undamaged face in Luger you can turn heel later if you want.
Luger not getting the strap in ‘88 killed his momentum far more than the rushed, last second push in early ‘90 did. By ‘90, Sting was clearly the fans’ choice for top hero. In ‘88, Lex had so much momentum after getting kicked outta the Horsemen and feuding with Flair. That’s when he should’ve gotten the title. Him not getting the WWF title in ‘93 is still nonsensical and STUPID...and killed all the momentum he had built up during that summer of ‘93
What killed Luger's momentum was dragging the feud out far too long which gave Bret Hart enough time to get equally if not more over than Lex. The co-winner angle at the 94 Royal Rumble sealed Lex's fate because Vince pretty much put the decision of whos going to be the next champion in the hands of the fans, and the fans went with Bret. Thats why Vince soured on Luger. Vince's mistake was not turning Luger heel immediately after Wrestlemania to feud with Bret using a jealousy angle. Would have been a monster King of the Ring ppv buy of Bret as champion against Luger instead of a random one shot with Diesel, who was feuding with Razor Ramon.
Lex luger was was way more over than Bret. More marketable. Lex wasnt the best wrestler there. He needed good opponents to have a good match. Bret hart was a babyface since 1991 so it was obvious that his reactions would be positive no matter what.
Lex luger was the guy who could fit that early to mid 90s as a champion. People saying lex wasnt over never watched lex or were never born in the 80s.
Bret hart was a misfit for that era. The most boring champion of WWF in the 90s.
Lex luger never won the title in 93 or 94 because Bret hart threatened Vince to leave WWF in 93 if Lex luger won the belt.
Lex luger didn't draw that well as a challenger in 1993 because the business was down due to the steroid scandal. They should have never put the title on Bret in 94.
@@bourbon646 I read Brets book cover to cover and not once did he threaten to leave if Lex was champion.
They were having Bret vs Luger on the house show circuit in 93, would have done monster business in the spring of 94 with heel Lex
@@KHayes666 lex luger did an interview in the early or mid 2000s about this.
Narcissist lex luger was a heel. Narcissist lex luger faced Bret hart numerous times in early 1993. Bret won most of the matches via DQ or count out.
Lex luger was so hot property that they couldn't make luger loose clean.
Bret was a great politician. Dont buy all his words. He did play politics with Shawn but Shawn was a bigger asshole.
Do you know Bret hart refused to loose to Shawn Michaels at wrestlemania 12?
@@bourbon646 "did you know Bret refused to lose"
Except he did. Sounds like you dont know much about wrestling history, but thats ok. Nobody watches anymore anyway
For whatever reason Lex didn't reach his full potential, he was still miles ahead of Ultimate Warrior and Goldberg.
I agree with Cornette that he wasn't ready and that it was just really rushed and pushed on him.
Not really.
Dream Match: "The Total Package" Lex Luger vs. "The Modern Day Warrior" Kerry Von Erich. Who would win???
What year, what venue, and who is booking?
@@Mr.Majestic77 sarcastic answer but whoever the booker would want to win?
Lugar vs Yoko at SummerSlam was a stupid ending. They celebrated like Lugar won the belt. Balloons come down and everyone celebrated in the ring off a count out win. WTF.
Whoever done stings knee did a great job, he did got a good 11yrs outta that new knee
At least Lex Luger was able become multiple time WCW 🌎 Champion.
Luger shouldn't have been champ in 90. He should have gone over Yoko. They could have made money off that.
+KissMyGrits ! I dunno. Cocky asshole champions came into style not long after. They should have at least have given him a shot in WWF. Couldn't have been worse than some of the others they had around that time.
movie madness clown
To my understanding,the original plan was supposed to have been Sting beat Flair for the NWA/WCW World Championship & Luger was going to drop the US Title to Dr. Death Steve Williams. Luger would've feuded with Sting for the belt
He had a dope finishing move tho the Human torture rack
... said no one ever.
I just didn't get it. I was never a Luger fan, but Vince jacks it to guys like Luger. And everything that led up to that match lead us to the conclusion that he'd be going over. Vince just doesn't know what he's doing.
I didn't get to see the Lex Express stuff until it had been over for a couple of years (Lex Express happened in 93 and I didn't become a fan until 95). I loved it, and thought Lex was really awesome. I was kinda sad that he never became champ, but then again, Bret was just a little bit more awesome and was involved in maybe the greatest WWF/E storylines ever (Brother vs. Brother with Owen Hart). I know hindsight is 20/20, but I would have gone ahead and let Lex win the belt at Summerslam, then if that didn't push him into the stratosphere, take the belt off him at Survivor Series, and still get the belt on Bret by Wrestlemania.
The finish at Summerslam could have still been winning by count out if Luger made some effort to get Yoko back in the ring but had knocked him out and couldn't lift him to get him back in the ring. That would be a pretty unique way for a babyface to win a match but not the title. Then after that he should have been frustrated that he won the battle but not the war and thus be all fired up trying to get a rematch. Celebrating made him look like a doofus. Thinking about it though does the idea of screwing the babyface on his first title defense and then building to a rematch later ever actually work? It seems like with the successful babyface champions like Hogan and Austin that once it was clear they were building to a title win they won it on their first challenge - no waiting until later.
The elbow finisher seemed to me to be a massive push killer. Fans like GOOD finishers. The gimmicked elbow was boring as all hell. The man's previous finisher was the Torture Rack, which admittedly had limited use against monster sized opponents but was still VASTLY more exciting than a cheap elbow clothesline. The only thing dumber than this I could imagine would be a top muscled-up baby face using something stupid like a leg drop as a finisher. I can't imagine anyone that would be that sleazy 🙄
Imagine if Vince had given Luger the Ultimate Warrior gimmick after '92.
That would have been awful. They should have just made him a Mr. Wonderful 2.0 type. Keep him heel. Don't do that whole america's hero bullshit. That's what killed him. You can't have him be the narcissist then just switch to all american hero kissing babies and whatnot. People seen right thru that shit. Have him be a high midcarder and give him time to challenge for the title. Let him learn and organically get over as a heel as that Mr. Wonderful 2.0 type. I believe that would have worked for him.
I was so happy as a kid that Luger didn’t win the title at Summerslam. His matches all sucked except when Flair carried him.
Building Yokozuna as an unbeatable heel was the right choice.
He shudda bt yoko at summerslam then drop it bk to yoko in December leading to what happened at RR 94 and WM 10. Not having him win title at SS was disastrous. Vince wasnt sure who his nxt top guy was despite fans wanting Bret but at least seeing lex with a 3 month reign wouldnt have hurt,fans might have took to him more as champ but he looked like an idiot at SS and fans were lost.
Luger just needed a manager like JJ when he was with the Horseman to help sell him to the crowd and help draw more heat. He always got a good pop with Windham and Sting also in tag situations, so he needed a little window dressing to draw sometimes unless Flair was making him look good
Lex wasnt a looker in the face. Honestly, that is what killed him. And he probably refused to sleep with Vince and Pat
Lol
They didn't know what to do with him because he had no personality. How many times did he flip back and forth between face and heel?
The Reason why Lex Luger didn't win the world title at Starrcade 1988: Ric Flair had too much power.
The reason why Lex Luger didn't win the world title at SummerSlam 1993: Just a total brain fart. You have to strike while the iron is hot.
Maybe if he was in the WWF in 89/90 he might of got the belt. By 93, I think they wanted the champion to look less jacked up because of the steroid trial. Yokozuna was a great monster heel and Bret was a master technician and didn’t look like he took he was pumped full of roids. Not saying he never took any illicit substances, but he certainly wasn’t as bulky as the typical WWF/E champion/superstars.
Never understood why WWE pumped in so much money for lex gave him a bus made him a music video and never gave him a push to make back the money on him selling out arenas while being champ. Then I saw him wrestle and then I understand Vince loves bodybuilders
I think Luger's biggest problem is that he comes across as very phony and insincere and while that works pretty well as a heel, it's a death sentence as a babyface because the audience can tell that you're full of BS.
His biggest problems were that he wasn't a wrestling fan and I always got the impression from him that he was ashamed of being a wrestler. That said he was a fantastic heel.
Which would have made for a good heel turn at the time he was tagging with Sting and have them go head to head for the World Championship
Lex Luger was from WCW the competition thats why he was never WWE champion comon!
Why was Flair then? Nash? Mick Foley? Stone Cold Steve Austin?
Luger was dope but a little overrated to me
I loved to hate Luger as a child in the 80's and looking back he did his job pretty good as a jerk heel that was super stiff worker but when he left to go up north he was doomed because Lex Luger wasn't a creation of Vince so he wasn't gonna get the belt plus it's only so much you can do with him because of his limited in-ring ability...Yes the total package was pretty but everything else stunk...GOD BLESS LEX LUGER...
Red Berry
Many former WCW guys had successful runs in the WWF in the 90’s, even winning the WWF Championship. Ric Flair, Kevin Nash, Sid Vicious, and later Steve Austin all were WWF Champions in the 90’s...same era that Luger came to the WWF in so it had nothing to do with the fact he wasn’t a Vince McMahon creation because Flair wasn’t a McMahon creation and he was the first to win the belt.
He’s still alive
Lex Express 💪
WWF can will fuck up on anything good depending on the situation it was opportunities for numerous big matches which never happened hogan and ric flair wrestle each other in arena's all over the country from November 1991- February 1992 as a setup for wrestlemania 1992 but since vince felt it was a big enough event he switched the main event but the hogan vs bret hart summerslam 93 situation is different because hulk didn't wanna do it but I just feel luger had great potential as a wwf champion but the summerslam 93 event killed his chances vince mcmahon did alot of good 4 the business but he also fuck up alot as well WWE is garbage right now 2day because vince doesn't make bad decisions period
Luger had the look but nothing else...he couldn't talk wrestle or sell...just optics
Lex Luger was wildly overrated. Never great in the ring or on the mic, but his look and the way he carried himself got him over. I remember him mostly from his WWF run and then after that in WCW and even back then I was a kid but I knew the world had changed and wrestling in general, with the exception of ECW was very slow to adapt. Luger was presented as an 80s style giant babyface with limited ring skills and the fans were souring on those types. Even Bret Hart back then had more of an edge and legitimacy to him than Luger and he was a straight up babyface. Succeeding in wrestling is partly about reading society and knowing when it’s time to change the presentation. Lex did a better job of that between 1995-97 in WCW. He just wasn’t cut out to be the all American hero - nobody was after 1996. Nobody wanted to see that. Babyfaces had to be anti authority.
Lex couldnt wrestle. Period. He couldnt carry a match. He couldnt carry his opponent. He was all look and it didnt work. He sucked at both baby face and heel
Luger was a really good worker between like 88-92, especially considering he only started training in 85. Sure, he was limited but he knew how to work within his limitations. He was hardly a Brian Adams (Crush) type who never had any ingredients that justified his pushes over the years. Besides his awesome physique, Luger had a certain charisma and he carried himself like a star. Equally as effective as a heel or babyface. Strong as an ox. Could sell his ass off. Tremendous babyface fire. Was over and drew money.
"Regarding Lex Luger vs. Ricky Steamboat, I talked to Steamboat regularly in 1989 when they had their great matches and Steamboat told me in specific that Lex called the Philadelphia and Baltimore matches, which were the two best ones of the series. He said Lex didn't want to call them because Steamboat was the veteran, but Steamboat told him that the heel calls." - Dave Meltzer (Wrestling Classics - 1st Janaury 2008)
"Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger (World Title) at Starrcade 1988: this match went over 30 minutes and Lex was quite good. All the criticism he gets for not being any good, his performance in this match was in many ways far better than much of what you see today. Luger's selling in particular was way better than many in the business today." - Lance Storm on (Storm Wrestling - 21st December 2011)
You're not fooling anybody with a clue cunt.
mmmm.. yeah thats just a matter of opinion. If you look at the whole picture, the actual definition of a worker, Luger wasn't putting the butts in the seat as a heel, and his draw as a babyface came from the disdain of his opponent (Flair). Lex just wasn't as over as a babyface like you think he was (certainly not in the first WCW run) the ARROGANCE was always there. He was an extremely limited worker in the ring, with a small toolbox and often resorting to the same moves several times within a span of only 10 minutes. His combacks were literally "flexing."..He couldn't carry a single match as a champion, thats why they took the belt off guys like him and sting all the time. Oh and his promos were always the complete shits.
-I dont believe Ricky said that for a moment..you do?
-Flair gave Lex his best matches. Those werent bad matches. Its Flair though..you see what you're missing there..cunt?
Luger was one-dimensional at best and was better as a heel brawler, but even then, he was nowhere near great, and his attitude sucked (he admits it now), and he wouldn't listen, so he didn't really improve like he could have. He was also very stiff and could not move well.
Look at the two guys you are talking about--Flair and Steamboat! Those two guys could have good matches with a broomstick. For every good match Luger had, there were others that were mediocre at best. Could he get heat? Yes. He could. Could he put on a good match occasionally? Sure, but nothing to write home about. He could not and did not perform consistently.
You listed a couple of good matches. When he did get the WCW title when Flair left, what did he do?
Great post by nWoWolfpac. Sick and tired of reading negativity regarding Luger.
His pre-WWF work is awesome, and 96-98 work good.
Some of my favorites: vs Steamboat GAB 89', vs Flair Wrestlewar 90', vs Pillman Clash 9. He also was part of numerous classic tag matches with Windham / Sting e.g. vs Steiners, Four Horsemen.
@@wecoolwecoolbounce5191 Bret hart and Shawn were great workers but were the worst champions.
Work rate doesnt draw. Its physique, charisma and presence does.
Lex was great and better than your favorite vanilla midgets.