Deacon-Run Churches: Are They Biblical?
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- Опубліковано 8 сер 2014
- Louis Love, Tony Carter, and Thabiti Anyabwile come up on The Front Porch to chop it up about elders and deacons -- the two offices the Bible prescribes. The brothers discuss how many churches in the African-American context are suffering from deacons who try to run the church and feel like it's their job to keep the pastor. Yet they also share and encourage biblical uses of the office: that is to be servants of mercy, servants who lead to meet the practical needs of the church. This conversation is crucial when you consider that the "health of a church boils down to the health of its government." Perhaps you're in a healthy church, or a Word of Faith church where the pastor has too much power, or a deacon-run church. Wherever you're at, c'mon up on The Front Porch and join the conversation.
Make sure to peep Thabiti Anyabwile's book, astore.amazon.com/thefropor0a-....
What is this!!! This is really good! Really good! Praise God! This is what we need! Older men, reasonable men, delighting in things of God, teaching the word of God accurately, publicly!
It is good to hear sound biblical teaching from a church culture other than what I am used to. Sola scriptura!
Thabiti, Tony and Louis,
So appreciate "The Front Porch". I am a 33 year Old African-American New Testament PhD Student (The University of Birmingham, Birmingham England). I appreciate you commitment to the Gospel and your commitment to good, gospel saturated, Jesus glorifying preaching. Please make more videos
I love you guys. So much experience - so much Bible - so much joy in Christ! it is in videos like this that the internet starts to be redeemed.
instablaster
I really like this format. Keep this up brothers, great job. God bless what your doing.
This is good stuff my brothers. First time I heard your guys. Excellent, informative. I thank God for you brothes.
oh yea, I meant to say, the Deacons do just as they say, they take care of the practical or physical needs of the church.
I grew up in the church during the 70&80, we never had deacons.
I remember the elders and the women’s board.
They now have deacons there.
We had a secretary, a treasurer, the usher board and the kitchen ladies. One pastor and no associate pastors
I have been a Deacon for about a year. This is some very good info.
Amen, good stuff. Thanks for serving the body of Christ! Paul says of his brethren, if there is any question about our brothers, they are messengers of the churches, a glory to Christ. I think this aptly applies to the deacons.
Great discussion. It's high time the church elders are selected amongst their membership apart from deacons.
I think this will help in deed to keep the elders in check especially in a season like this where sound doctrines seems to be disappearing from pulpits!
This is great stuff! Thanks guys!
Great segment.
I agree that it is likely due to the length of time the deacons serve in the church versus the short period of time that many pastors are in a church. I've never been in a church where the deacons have the authority to hire and fire, but at the same time, if a pastor were to get off into doing things he ought not do it is likely the deacons who would end up dealing with it.
Correct! Thats in the Baptist church! In the Pentecostal church if a Pastor is doing something wrong the Deacon can Question him..but only God can remove a Pastor that he had place there..God remove King Saul when he disobey God..but the bible says "Touch not my anointed!
leared so much from this discussion.
Thank you brothers...
wow this is a blessing, im apart of a church where the pastor is kind of a dictator over us. he has no one to tell him what to do essentially, not even deacons. though there are two elders (one a woman) which i cant reconcile with scripture. the man is sound and meets the requirements but has no say. or at least he doesnt do anything. i do plan on sharing the revelations God has been giving me and i hope leadership truly becomes plural
Good discussion.
Great piece of biblical truth!
The issue is that deacons in our churches are deacons in name only. They function more like elders.
This right here!! ON POINT
it seems like the deacons are not as strong as they used to be in the church I'm not as valued as much and I'm speaking on the new generation churches
This is a Great conversation but I have a question. There was a question ask if deacons have the authority to hire or let go of pastors and the brother on the right said no but what are the deacons to do if a pastor is misusing the office or if a pastor leaves or dies?
I go to a baptist church who is ran by chief financial officer and deacons....
I felt like I was a lower christian when i went to this type of church and what was up with the white cloves..
I personally prefer a church led by a group of no-salary elders. If the church is not growing, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
One question: Are the church leaders in the Bible got paid a monthly salary? Or they all had to live on faith as everyone else?
In Acts 6 the apostles had a veto; they had the option to not laid hands ...
On thing about a Deacon he is under the Pastor according to the word of God..The bible says Eph.4:12 the five fold ministry is the Pastor, Apostle, Teacher.Prophet n Evangelist.so, the Deacon is not including in that.so, I dont know where they get that from?
Isn't the word pastor means shepherd, and that shepherd is the elder, the bishop and so on, the same person operating in the different roles?
The words are used to describe the same group of men. The do shepherd the flock as pastors, they oversee the congregation as bishops, and they are men of experience (not a novice) as a group of elders. While an elder must be able to teach and prevent false teachings, he would not be like a modern preacher/pastor who singly directs the work of the church. Acts 20, Titus 1, 1 Tim 3, 1 Pet. 5, and Heb 13 show the way the terminology is used as the words are used interchangeably. A single pastor directing the church seems unbiblical to me.
Must have been a deacon that hit the dislike button.
LOL
Lol
Kept it real 100%
True
After there is a vote by the elders Do the Church see if the vote is aligned with Gods will by casting votes? Acts 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot f e l l on Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
The church I go to has elders that are elected every year I believe. i think it is one year they serve. They are under the pastor, but, all of them together can get rid of the pastor if the pastor starts getting unscriptural or if he gets caught up in sin or whatever. They can vote him out of office, although he is in charge of them.
I’ve never seen a church that had a solo deacon.
Respect brethren lastly if you get a good reading and understanding with almighty Father God's word we arrive it's not about one ethnicity amen.
Has any church had a run-away pastor who had or brought in a "I'm the King mentality"? Congregations should be a part of pastor hiring/dismissal, along with the Deaconship, not Deacon Board!
Yeshua speaks of this and he is our only teacher and master and shepherd. Yeshua also said to not take wages for the gospel. Jesus only chose 12 apostles and those 12 were in the room on the day the Holy Spirit rushed in as wind. Jesus told us to call one another brethren and nothing more. He knew false apostles were going to make themselves into deacons, elders, and pastors. We were warned but so many haven’t listened 😞. They flock into the 33 degree free mason organizations and believe they have to give them money to stand on a pulpit. Heartbreaking 😢
In the Bible, the apostles created the deacons in order to run the business of the church.
The elders/bishops/pastors teach and minister the flock.
The deacons conduct the business and relieve the every day stresses from the elder/pastor.
The Apostles in response to the Greek speaking widows who complained because of a discrepancy in distribution of food. The Apostles were unable to preach, teach and heal which was their functions. They told the people to look among them and select 7 men of good reputation. Wisdom and be full of the spirit.
Their biblical mandate was to serve the table. They were not even referred to as Deacons until Philippians , chapter 1.
Modern day Deacons are administrators. They have assumed extra-biblical status and in some cases have proven to be a detriment to the overall mission of the church.
I don’t enjoyed the explanation, but I am still not understanding as to why pastors should be hired. Even Jesus worked as to not burden or put anyone out. 2 Thessalonians 3:6-13
Real talk fellas. We truly need good teaching that's bibliocentric from our context, that's not the liberation theology model . However, it hurts that you brothers are on point and all of us in the other states in this country don't have a solid black and reformed place to worship. My church is not reformed, but I am. Nothing in my area.
barley Barstow e
The pastor is the frontman of the church. Paul said to Titus, he was to appoint elders in every city. Not deacons. In Acts 20, Paul sent for the elders of the church. Not deacons. Paul gave charge to Timothy, he was the Bishop of Ephesus. Now in 1Timothy Paul gave the qualifications of bishops and deacons. The deacons do not feed the congregation. A elder and bishop are titles of a pastor.
Now Peter in his epistle said; The elders among you, who also am an elder, I exhort, feed the flock of God. He never mentioned the deacons. I'm gonna light a fire here, black people are hard to pastor. I've seen a lot of black churches where black, both men and women rise up against the preacher. Look at Moses, Aaron was high priest, but God talked to Moses.
I was a deacon in my church from 1989 to 2018. My pastor appointed me he felt I met the qualifications of a deacon. Which I did. God deal more with the preacher than anyone else in church. Deacons are nothing more, than glorified servants. Waiting on tables. Following orders. I been in church now 44 years. My first 41 years was a black congregation and I've seen first hand how hard headed people can be. I left that church to go be with a UPCI Apostolic church. I disagree with you guys immensely. The deacons do not run the church, the pastor does. Jeremiah said: And I will give unto you pastors, after mine own heart, who shall feed you knowledge and understanding. The pastor. Deacons are to help the pastor. A house, a marriage, can only have one head. Just like the church. The pastor is the under shepherd. Deacon don't decide nothing. Some deacons become preachers. But, what kind? Evangelists? Minister? Pastor? That, is up to God. The deacons do not move the pastor. The bible says treat the pastor as a father. Give him double honor. Never said a deacon. When people get saved, the pastor is their father in the gospel. Where do you see a deacon preach anyone out. A deacon labor's, but a pastor labor's more. I got saved at the age of 17, and I seen a lot. The dead raised, demons cast pout, the sick healed. Sinners come to the Lord. All at the leading of the Holy Ghost moving through the pastor. If the Holy Ghost deals with the preacher, and deacons at the same time, that's confusion. And God is not the author of confusion.
Acts 6 didn't say anything about a deacon, foolish!!
Of course it's not!!! Deacons are there to support the pastor NOT run the show!!!
Jeremiah 23
23 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord.
2 Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.
No
deacon run church is unbiblical. need elders first to have deacons. and the elders/shepherds rule well
Jesus Christ is the leader of EVERY GROUNDED CHURCH...
But Without ever watching the video...The answer is NO! Deacons are servants to everyone in the church... The Churches pecking order is as follows... The Pastor is the under shepherd to Jesus Christ and The Elders (MEN) are next to him...
Deacon's have a role in Mercy ministry. Deacon's are not Ministers, but Elders provide spiritual oversight
@@johntobey1558, I would say that deacons are ministers, but it is a different kind of ministry. Deacons are to minister more to the physical needs and elders to the spiritual needs, but there is some overlap in those two roles.
@@TimothyFish The issue is the claim that the order is presbyter/elder and deacon/steward only. The pastor though coming from the presbyterate is of the order of bishops/apostles. That is apostolic church order. I come from an older more liturgical denomination. I would like to see more presbyters and deacons deployed at the local church level in addition to the one pastor and two associates. All three groups are vital and must sit together in session to decide on a lot of things but of course the mercy ministry and governance ministry are not to be overshadowed by the pastoral.
Thus taking their ordination as binding forever as we do is so important rather than term limits, what they can have may be votes to check if they are still wanted in position by members of the congregation every 3 years or so or they should be fired,
In scripture, elders were shepherds(pastors), and always plural. There is no pecking order that has a single pastor over a group of elders, not in scripture.
Jesus is the chief shepherd.
@@kennethlorin1
What are you babbling on about???
The pastor is the pastor... The elders are plural... But there is only one PASTOR WHO IS THE UNDER SHEPHERD OF JESUS CHRIST... THAT IS ELEMENTARY
Nope.