Vintage Cherry MX Black REDUX review (Micronorth KB-5060?)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 сер 2024
- Skip to 12:36 for a typing demonstration.
Today we take a new look at vintage Cherry MX Black switches! This includes a comparison between them and other switches, both vintage and old. Hope you enjoy the video! :)
Intro by Kyle Carter
Outro by Facundo Cabanne
My keyboard reviews: bit.ly/1TbOtft
My switch teardowns: bit.ly/2C1QGHz
My TOP X videos: bit.ly/2FmpZfd
My XL typing demos: bit.ly/2OoAW3w
My tutorials and featurettes: bit.ly/2OrkLUh
My unboxing videos: bit.ly/2TSrr0m
I'm Thomas and I do videos and reviews on mechanical keyboards ranging from the most sickening modern RGB gaming keyboards to vintage hardware relics, or sometimes keycaps or keyswitches ranging from Cherry MX to Alps SKCM to IBM buckling springs and anything in between.
Follow me on Twitter for updates on my keyboard videos! / chyrosran22
The practice sentence was: "Hello my name is Thomas and I'm typing on a Micronorth keyboard with very vintage Cherry MX Black switches right now. I'm glad I finally did this comparison video!"
Jesus this guy could open a legit keyboard museum in his apartment
He should open one. I would visit
I was literally telling a friend this today.
@@kylecarter5802 You HAVE visited it xD .
If I had the will to travel and the money I would visit as well
@@Chyrosran22 I might travel to UK just to see all the keyboards you have just for fun
“Sounds like dry queefs”
Mate I had to pause the video after that because I laughed so suddenly and violently that I couldn’t hear what you were saying lol
Good job as always Tom. It's always such a pleasure to see a new video from you.
Thanks mate :D .
1:53 "but then I remember that the build quality is better than wet cardboard so it couldn't have been made by Cherry".
oof.
At some point early in my keyboard discovery, I noticed many keyboard brands used Cherry switches, so when I saw a colleague using a Cherry keyboard I even said: "Gee you have a keyboard made by Cherry itself, must be pretty good!" Perfect example of not knowing shit of what one is talking about :P:D
Most older Cherry Keyboards do have metal mounting plates in them. I even have one.
@@raulsaavedra709 We’ve all been there whether we like to admit it or not 😅
@@chunkymilk1288 when I got my first mech I thought cherry was the best (I watched a lot of LTT) so I got a keyboard with MX browns and when I used them they were shit so I thought that tactile switches were just really sucked
@@SamFromItalia Linus knows jack shit about keyboards lol
100% Agree on the no lubing, if they need lubing then they should have been lubed in the factory, if not then it's aftermarket mod and no longer should be considered the same switch.
All of modern keeb is angary
you have probably never felt a properly lubed switch. there is no scratchiness at all on a linear, not comparable to non-lubed switches
@@Grovichun he said that lubed switches should not be considered the same switch, not that lubing does not improve smoothness. Besides, there aren't many people who would spend the time to lube a keyboard full of switches.
@@Grovichun lube doesn't completely erase friction, just lessens it to a large degree, plus there's inherent friction within contact based switches. Contactless switches if made well can be even better than lubed contact based switches even when dry. Plus the presence of lubricant can make a switch feel different in ways other than just smoothness, which might not always be good, and it can also dry out or stop working after a while. So in short, a switch is better if it doesn't have to be lubed to feel smooth.
I want to get this so I can salvage the switches lol
It astonishes me that Cherry lingered for so long with retooling.
Cause before 2006, nobody even cared about what a mechanical switch was. You got a keyboard and used it till it died, then tossed it. And it wasn't until 10 years later gamers even detected an advantage in choosing a better quality keyboard. Thats when Corsair contracted Cherry to make a version of their switch that would work better with RGB and then the reason to make a new mold was met.
The premise of this video: "Linear Cherry MX switches that almost don't suck?! Well now, that's a special unicorn. How do they stand up to every other linear switch?"
I personally tested the breaking in period and I think there's actually some merit to it. Basically I took 9 gateron matcha switches and put them in a switch tester. Then I flipped the tester upside down and pressed all the switches down repeatedly. I did this for about a month every day for a few hours a day, basically whenever I was watching UA-cam or something at my pc. I then took those switches and compared them to unused switches and found a small but noticable difference in smoothness. Granted, these weren't MX Blacks, but they're the same design so I think it's still comparable.
Interesting findings. I’ve actually been experimenting with breaking in switches with diamond paste applied to the stems. I’ve only tried it on mx blacks but it actually made a huge difference. They are noticeably smoother and the scratch sound is gone.
Interesting. I think the reason why some boards get scratchier while others get smoother is because of dust, as in dust around the house. I think if the switches are kept clean then break it helps but if they're dirty they get worse. I don't have any evidence for this but it would make sense since different people report different things.
Some guy did this on the reddit with NK Creams but used a machine. I think he took it out to 50k actuations but I can't remember exactly. He said they felt really great.
@@thechemtrailkid ofc he would say they felt great, he was trying to sell them
Could the 'breaking in period' be just a confusion of just 'getting used to it'.
Yes, that is my suspicion as well.
@@Chyrosran22 It's a debate in audiophile circles as well, coincidentally. Some argue that audio products "burn-in" after being used for a certain amount of time, with people leaving these devices with music playing continuously for days. Others argue that it's just your brain getting used to the sound signature, which I'm also more inclined to believe.
@@Boyetto-san Another argument I've heard is that it could be the pads themselves being broken in, causing them to conform more to the shape of your head and altering the sound.
Annecdotally I own a really heavily used Cooler Master keyboard with Mx-Reds in it. And while a lot of the lesser used keys are super scratchy like all pre-retool cherry switches, the heavily used switches like on "e" etc. are comparatively really smooth.
@@Aelith766 Ah, so you think it's less of a 'breaking in period' and more of a "wear in period". ok.
I will never not read the *ZENITH* logo without a sick guitar rift in the background
As a linear switch enthusiast, I must say that just simply the smoothness of a switch is not the be all end all of how good a switch is or feels. I have many boards with different linear switches, cherry black, red ect, alps green, modern hall effect and so on, and still I like the green alps and even cherry black (good ones like vintage) better the some of the smoother switches, like the hall effect. But hey, that's just me.
If it has actual build quality and doesn't creak, it wasn't made by Cherry.
True. Cherry is too overrated and inconsistent
Socky Noob I FOUND YOU!!! XD
"....sounds like dry queefs" 😂
I'm very familiar with this sound so the comparison was helpful
I've only heard them made the sound of a emptying balloon, that was inflated by a drooling Saint Bernard.
Always so nice to see a new video from you. So enjoyable even if I had no idea the board you decided to talk about existed.
I think you would REALLY enjoy the Varmilo EC V2 switch lineup if you enjoy the modern contactless switches. In many's opinions they're EVEN SMOOTHER, and the Varmilo Chasses are excellent as well so they make for an amazing combo
chryosan is primarily a vintage keyboard channel so i doubt hed review the ec v2 switches. Ive seens comments like this months ago and nothitg.
@@user-qk8rt9yf9v maybe he just hasnt seen enough to consider them? idk ill try dming him
I want my children to have a voice like his...
*Daughter
That's not a nice voice for a kid.
Straight out the womb, "Hey toots!"
Really? I suggest lube and film the child for a most consistent sound, that'll be better
@@hairyputter5363 nah, just use some nice oak roomy case and tall thin abs doubleshots for more amplified sound
I bought some Cherry Blacks that came out of an old Cherry keyboard to see what all the fuss was about, and honestly, they are nice once spring-swapped (and yeah, lubed and filmed them), but yeah, many other switches out there that do just as good a job or better for much less money. Still, I do not regret getting them, though, but more because it also feels a little like a homage.
Most enthusiasts who buy them, buy them for the sound. It’s very unique and some people like it. Definitely needs a spring swap tho lmao.
That's the epitome of MX switches. "That's good, but everything else is better for less money"
@@SonicBoone56 Currently have that with Holy Zykos, built one, tested it, liked it a lot, they just that little extra nice compared to Boba U4Ts, but the price difference is going to make me not bother getting more and just sticking to the Bobas.
didn't believe in "break in" until I got an akko cs rose red the other day
they aren't scratchy even new, but after a couple of hours in rhythm games even the slightest rustle (well, until you put them right before ear) is gone, wow 🤔
and they're cheap AF on AE!
Yo! I'm thinking of buying akko with pink switches too! How are the keycap quality and how it is overall?
@@aaclovern9804 i use id80 with akko cs rose red switches + akko neon cherry profile keycaps (somewhat soft pbt, be careful) and quite satisfied with them, sorry, didn't tried akko keyboards
be sure that board uses CS switches, cause akko v2 should look kinda same but they're different
"Break in" in a switch is really only a factor for certain types of plastics rubbing against metal or against certain types of plastic. For example, if the injection mould is old and the slider is rubbing up against metal any defects/flaws/scratchiness in the mould will get worn away after a few weeks of use. However, if you've got a poor mould creating a Nylon slider that rubs against POM no amount of break-in is going to make it feel any smoother. Only way to fix such switches is by polishing them by hand. Lube usually helps too.
You play osu :D
@@chunkymilk1288 mostly djmax respect v but yes :'D
I'd be interested in your vintage black vs hyperglide comparison.
I'm also curious if you've had a chance to use the new Wooting hall effect switches--are those the switches you're referring to here, perhaps? Or was that their older optical switches? The hall effects are supposed to be better.
Spirit of the Old school lives only in contactless switches.
And Fujitsu business class keyboards
you cannot go wrong with a video of yours at 8 am with a cup of coffee while doing work
How do they compare to other "smooth" contact-based linear switches like Gateron Ink Black, NK Cream, lubed MX Browns, etc.?
Lol
he wont answer this question cause he is a vintage keyboard channel. The only modern switch he reviewed wan the glorieus pandas.
@@user-qk8rt9yf9v He reviewed ink blacks and NK creams before
Link to NK creams :ua-cam.com/video/KJT_P-ARxSs/v-deo.html
link to Ink blacks :ua-cam.com/video/26BGOhYB3SM/v-deo.html
@@user-qk8rt9yf9v do you fucking have eyes
@@Pastill- my bad
I had never heard the word 'concomitant' before in my life, so thank you for teaching me that one! Then again, these videos have always been a good way to enrich your vocabulary, haven't they? c;
Hey System76, give this man your Launch keyboard for a full review!
My Filco Majestouch 2 (purchased around August 2018), with Cherry MX Blacks & Filco's own tall ABS spherical double shots, definitely sounds better than this vintage one, both in terms of gradual key presses and hammering away at it.
For me it has a smooth sandy feel which I quite like. The weighting's not a problem for me either, as my truckasaurus hands hammers away at my Filco like it's a pre-electric mechanical typewriter.
how odd, i also recently bought a "not sure actually" IBM XT knockoff in black switches. except mine was made by Tai Hao.
actually upon checking the keycaps are the same.
those vint blacks should be for you to keep. If you daily drive a board with a PCB that is compatible with MX switches, pull those vint blacks out, lube and film them and put them in. It's going to be heaven, unless if you daily drive Alps Greens already (Which I heard are heavenly)
You could have compared them with the Hi-Tek 725 space invaders switches. Since both are heavy linears. How do you think they compare? I really would like to see a new review of that ones as well.
0:22 That image of the Multiterm version is mine.
I know it's not well liked but I have a soft spot for this layout. Probably because my childhood PC had a model F clone keyboard.
I think you will be the first one to make a video comparing retooled cherry switches with the scratchy ones, please make the video I am interested to see it.
Awesome. I appreciate your mentioning custom builds which are limited to contact based switches! It's a pain to rely on ergo layouts and not have all of the contactless switches as an option.
I know that you can do contaactless pseudo-customs via an optical barebones kit, but the switches afaik are inconsistent between manufacturers and pcb fitment is a luck of the draw
6:25 sounds like dried queffs hahahahaha....
I wanted to break into the vintage side of keyboards, but my location completely prevented me from doing so 🥲
They don't have eBay where you live?
@@charstringetje not everywhere does. and then there are the import taxes.
@@charstringetje eBay is a little dry when it comes to vintage mechanical keyboards.
@@chunkymilk1288 No electronics recycling facilities around? That's way better than Ebay anyway if you don't want to become homeless and build yourself a shelter and/or fire out of your new/old yellowed keyboards.
@@xb0xisbetter There is a recycling center, it’s just that other enthusiasts scoop up the keyboards before I can.
I've never found any Cherry MX Black to be that special. Off the shelf Gateron's are cheaper and smoother. "Boutique" switches like Inks are a step above normal Gateron offerings and even then, C3 Tangerines and especially Alpacas are step above those special offerings.
Basically, even at their best, I think Cherry switches are just alright.
it’s all preference, cherry switches have a nice clack to it
Still the most modern sounding vintage mechanical keyboard. Alps SKCC, SKCM, SKCL and Fujitsu leaf spring would be a reference for vintage sounding mechanical keyboard
The hangover thing got me recently
That spacebar sounds HIDEOUS. Good god that thing needs some ass butter it's dryer than the sonora desert.
Hey Thomas, as always you give us with amazing quality videos, but Ive heard of a switch called "akko CS switches", I have read about them and I've seen that there are 3 switches of the CS lineup called "Rose Red, Blue Ocean, and Matcha Green", If you can, may you review some of them?
I have an MX vintage black in my collection and it feels the same as the new ones. I know it is on a tester and Chyrosran has said it can give a bad impression of how a switch feels, and the switch is new old stock but it feels the same none less.
I don't have as many MX black boards as people who actually like MX blacks, or Chyros, but I have never noticed a considerable difference between boards myself. I have two that are AT layout (KB151L) that don't feel any better to me than any other random MX black board. None of them feel particularly great to me compared to boundless alternatives that don't use the MX design, and I don't recall whether or not I have even tried contactless linears outside of some bizarre forgotten hall effect board ad a recycling place.
I have a Cherry made MX board from an NCR computer, made in 1984. The switches were not smooth at all - I have an Esprit Terminal from 1988 with MX blacks which are *super* smooth. I ended up changing the switches on the NCR board out for MX brows from an early 2000s Kinesis because they were smoother!
I always associate the scratchiness sound as another character of the board sound but not to point out that scratchiness = bad though. However, I came across hyper x board and I really like how smooth they are.
Scratchiness has nothing to do with the board itself, it is always the slider rubbing against the switch housing and/or contacts. If you desolder a switch entirely from a board you'll still feel it in that switch. As bad as Cherry is in that regard, some clones are even worse.
@@xb0xisbetter thx for the info, mate.
@@FuukanaTV You're welcome. You'll learn a lot watching Chyros' videos.
Regarding the comment about switch break in. I’m not sure about mx blacks and their various iterations, but NK creams went from 50 grit to 1000 grit sandpaper after about a month use without lube. Would recommend for those
when SC2 released I got steelseries keyboard with black switches and I was so happy when the keyboard stopped working. also can you do a video where you lube a bottle of lube while being covered in lube over a chillout music in blue and pink LED lighting. Otherwise I can't really take you seriously as reviewer.
do you think lube for old switches that are less dust resistant could be good for longevity for not having to clean potentially? Although ig they're not really designed specifically out of the gate. nvm, probably wouldnt work
Those modifiers just make my skin crawl lol
Best location for ctrl
Same. I tried to daily drive an IBM Model F XT for a time. That did not last long. I find the AT layout to be usable though.
You never talked about the Gateron optical switches. How do those cheap options compare in smoothness with these expensive Razer and Steelseries boards you always talk about?
What you may lack in smoothness, can be compensated by a long spacebar.
Even if it sounds like a pair of maracas.
chyrosan sayin mx blacks are too heavy meanwhile i have 150g spring swapped gateron yellows
5:36 - "I have a Windows Vista Era Keyboard, most definitely not Vintage Black model."
Your voice is soothing
those keys occupying two positions and at the same time having a small area for the finger (enter key especially) ..noice!
I'm using an AULA F2088 with Black Switches that i'm guessing are outemu's and i love it. it felt a little weird at first but after getting use to it there's no way i'd go back to reds, they to me are way to light and i had a lot of accidental presses with them. plus the blacks just feel normal to me now either that or they're broke in? I even bought a one handed keyboard for gaming with black switches i liked them so much.
i think in the long run they also make you a better typist as it strengthens your fingers and makes you more confident in your presses. idk how else to describe it, but i now have the fastest typing speed i've ever had.
Did you get a wooting lekker board? When to expect a review for that?
What is with that white pixel towards the edge of the frame in the bottom left quadrant?
Noticed this as well
That cherry touch board was mu first mech. Then I had MX browns keyboard... Nough said, no more cherry MX lol. Niz on the way. Razer opto linear is great too
Thomas should review the Varmilo EC boards
absolutely agree!
ive seen this comment months ago so i doubt hed review it but if he did thatd be pretty cool
Non-scientific tests I have done have shown that atleast my vint blacks from late 80s early 90s are definitely heavier than springs sold as 80g springs, but even after spring swapping them with Gat yellow springs and 67g springs from C3 Kiwis, I feel like the smoothness and sound is superior in gat yellows.. as far as linears go, I would not put vintage blacks even in top 5 for MX-style linears. I do think they are worth getting for the sake of having something niche/different and with proper weighted springs they are decent without lube/film.
Thomas doing the Lord's work by busting yet another switch myth.
Especially the whole breaking in period thing. I’ve tried this on many switches and it makes little difference. I did however try something a little bit unorthodox. I applied 0.5 micron diamond paste to the switch stems of retooled mx blacks and then did my breaking in routine and that actually made a difference.
@@keagan5379 Interesting! How long did you leave the abrasive paste in the switches for (I'm asuming you'd have to clean it off later)?
@@IOSam I left it on for only a few hours and during that time I rolled a ball across the keys for 5 minutes increments which added up to a total of 2 hours. I then opened each switch and dropped them into a bowl of water with a drop of dish soap. I let them soak over night and then brushed off the polish the next day. From what I’ve seen, it’s safe to leave on for a few days but it gets harder to clean. I was very happy the result and they’re about as smooth as the vintage mx blacks I overpaid for lol. Here is a larger page of other users discussing it as well
www.keebtalk.com/t/using-diamond-paste-to-polish-switches/11092?page=2
@@keagan5379 Fascinating stuff one can find on Keebtalk these days... LOL
And thanks a lot for the tip! It's definitely a lot of work, but that's what we (enthusiasts) do with our free time anyway... 😂
I love that all these boards have ctrl next to A and capslocks is like in some corner you never touch. At what point keyboard layouts decided to go stupid and put capslock next to A? and somehow everybody decided to copy their homework forever and after. Cmon guys, it makes no sense to have capslock there.
Meanwhile, I'm still quite confused over what exactly Cherry MX Hyperglides are supposed to be. Are they a new variety of MX or are they meant to replace all normal MX switches like a re-retool? When are they going to even become generally available? Even then, I seriously doubt that they'll compete with even the higher-end of contact-based designs.
I think it’s just a retool.
Many vendors are starting to offer hyperglide variants right now, I’m not sure when they’ll make their way into mainstream keyboards.
They just retooled the molds and hired some new assholes for their marketing department. I bought some and they’re noticeably smoother but not exactly a night and day difference.
@@keagan5379 DK sells them at around the same price as regular blacks, so I’d consider it a win.
They're not going to compete on smoothness or even durability. The main reason people care about them is sound.
Love your channel! Could you please review the keyboard on the IBM L40sx?
oooohh man I am a SUCKER for the sound of those green Alps. Mmmff. So freakin' great.
@Chyrosran22 I'm sorry if I've already asked this but, what's the intro song? Did you make it yourself? Is it a full song?
It’s made by Kyle Carter who did all of the sound design and the visuals.
the Cherry board and the green alps board are like you vs the girl he tells you not to worry about
Well, they're not expensive any more, starting from now
I would actually laugh so hard if this deflated the value of vintage mx blacks on r/mm and eBay. Can’t believe some of those f*ckers charge $2 per switch.
@@keagan5379 He's talked about MX being garbage for years. I don't think many people have really revered MX black all that much anymore to begin with since all of the fancy boutiques started getting popular.
@@keagan5379 the price will continue going up as these are not made anymore.
The space bar on this thing is amanzingly gigantossaurus (0:50)... Probably the biggest I've ever seen, no wonder the rattly sound. The rest of the keys sound good, though (12:37).
I was three quarters in tot he video until I noticed the spacebar JESUS CHRIST IS THAT 10U?
the keycaps look really nice
NEW VID NEW VID NEW VID NEW VID
Honestly, I don’t really like contactless switches. The idea of them being smoother sounds nice in my head, but without any grit whatsoever, it sort of feels…boring, if that makes any sense.
It also just feels like there’s not enough travel in the contactless switches I’ve tried. It’s not satisfying.
11:54 to 12:06
LMAO 🤣
where do you get all of these old keyboard from?
MMMMMM THAT SPACEBAR
S P A C E B A R
Where do you get these keyboards?
that's a handsome keyboard, hawt dayum those caps
Hey, I've been looking to get an IBM Battleship keyboard and I can't find any anywhere, where do you get your keyboards from?
You're most likely to find them on eBay. You could also check local recycling centers and see if they have any old IBM keyboards there.
I found this with a quick search. There are plenty more out there.
www.ebay.ca/itm/124498173463?hash=item1cfcab5e17:g:z84AAOSwZaRf4rF3
Are the keycaps pbt
lol what do you have against lube? krytox makes everything feel better.
nah, I like the natural feel, not all those lubes and rings and other toys. Or.. you talking keyboard lubes?
He is staunchly anti-mod. Probably my biggest sticking point with his opinions.
@@pixelplays964 I agree with Chyros’ stance that you shouldn’t have to lubricate switches to make them feel good, but if you like lubing that’s okay.
@@jb-br8bf not saying that you have to lube switches to make them feel good just that they always feel better when you do.
can you review the HK galaxy 75% keyboard?
Look at this gigantic spacebar O_o
Yes, welcome to the XT era. Most keyboards were like this then.
I love this videos, you are like The Angry videogame Nerd, but keyboards HAHAHA.
I have 5 Cherry G80s with mx black switches from about 2003 (because I can't find anything else that has the German layout and Windows keys.. not because I think they are that good)
and from that badge the one where some keys were actually worn down so much you could see the shape of the stem has the best key feel. So I would say they get better with use- but of curse that could just be coincidence. I personally like the mx black ones a bit better than mx brown because they are less scratchy- or probably they have the same scratchyness but you don't notice it as much... anyone with a good tip what kind of keyboard I could use instead? linear switches, German Layout and Windows keys are what I am after
Maybe if you could find a german layout version of the Dell AT101W and linearize it (take out the tactile leaves)
Ngl not lubing is a bold way of living
gmk keycaps
10u spacebar is ace.
1:37 Is that a Steelseries keyboard Thomas? :D
I have no idea, that's a very old picture from my 5155 review xD .
That spacebar sounds so LIDL. LULW
YES YES YEEEEESSS
im in love with you
oof that spacebar
Ibm 5160
Please say: "Would you please sign my petition" in your next Video.
I have a Cherry Mx Black, Mx Blue, Mx Brown and Matias Tactile Pro and i like each one the same. They have all their strengths and weaknesses. Not everyone can afford an Alps Blue Keyboard and finding one isn't easy. So yeah i like Cherry Switches.
Why like any of the MX switches you named when you have a tactile pro? Matias' linears and tactiles (their actual tactiles) are all contenders for best current mass production switch as well, in my opinion.
Matias' clicky switches are really not that much worse than Alps SKCM. I can use both interchangeably.
could you do a top # of cherry mx style switches?
"Diarrhea ass-fountain" ... Oooooooo-k ...
Nut
12:00 pls destroy this amstrad keyboard and make a video how you destroy it
Those keycaps tho
sounds like a dry queef? Show us a keyboard that sounds like a wet queef :)
Anything smeared in lube, I imagine.