EPA/Government should be giving tax rebates to diesel owners to have all diesel trucks converted to these pistons if they are serious about "green" tech and initiatives. If everyone saves 10-15% on fuel and reduces nox emissions by 20% then the government should be incentivizing folks to have these pistons retrofits completed
We think so too! We are actively pursuing verification with he EPA Clen Diesel program and Cana's Green Freight program. Both provide big incentives for folks voluntarily cleaning up their old diesel engines. In the US, this program is funded by the billions of dollars Volkswagon had pay the US for cheating.
Everyone can save 15 % plus on fuel by fixing the contamination problem in the fuel tank. Pump Fuel absorbs Air. This causes dirty Engines and Fuel Injector Cavitation....which reduces Fuel Economy. Ox-cetane Greatly restores lost fuel economy and Performance.
We need to get Gale Banks to do a series on a side-by-side comparison of the older 5.9, lb7-lbz, and 7.3 and 6.0 builds with the Data Monster to really see in real time the benefits from stock to modified and how they stack up with tier 4 engines.
SEMA garage has been doing extensive A/B testing on an LML for several months and early results have been extremely promising. Those tests (and the SEMA certification) will be public soon. We are also doing an LLY build now and plan to make it Tier 4 compliant w/o DPF/SCR. Stay tuned!
@barrylenoble6705 more info than you asked for but.... I made an account today in order to see price. And currently they are out of stock it seems but also says a set is 4k for my 16 LML. Hope that helps you. They also have a calculator on it to help predict savings (over 350k miles) and when I even reduce the "fuel savings percentage" to half of what he claims in the video it is $12k savings in 350k miles which for me if I keep daily driving my truck would be almost 12 years at the longest. And I would save about $1000 a year. So at half of their claims in theory it would take me 4 years for it to "pay for itself" and if the emissions really are reduced enough to stop and drastically reduce soot output and such these piston heads are game changing.
I worked with some of the guys that ran that mining truck he was talking about. They were nuts over the results they got. Interesting that they are backing into smaller engines now.
Ironically Gail Banks has been screaming for the better of forty years that efficient combustion in diesel was better than exhaust after treatment. Soot is proof of inefficient combustion. SOOT BAD!
Thanks for having these guys on. I follow Gentry & Sons Trucking and those guys have been crazy over these pistons and swear by them. I think he said on one of his videos that Speed of Air was going to save the trucking industry.
Great question! We've done a ton of work with heads (and turbos). If we did everything we could to the engine, we'd have about 85% of the total benefit tied up in the piston design. We found it wouldn't really be cost effective to do the heads for the small additional gain.
@@speedofair How does this affect light-load soot production? So people can idle their trucks at night (if needed) in cold weather without plugging up the DPF??
@@ArmyProperty It will reduce soot at all operating conditions. Of course soot production is relative to heat so idling will always be worse than under constant load.
@speedofairenginetechnologi1721 I had a similar though, question regarding the valves themselves. Could those be dimpled in the intake valve face? But then, also secondary or bypass filtration for 2-15 micron material removal. Thanks.
Ironically Gail Banks has been screaming for the better of forty years that efficient combustion in diesel was better than exhaust after treatment. Soot is proof of inefficient combustion. SOOT BAD! Update 5/6/23 plus the more condensed the air going in the more efficient the combustion too. Not compressed that's what a Turbo dose but condensed a better intercooler. Making the air denser.
All I can say is WOW!!!! Super informative, Im stoked to see a company so innovative come forth with all the R&D that's gone into these pistons, just listening to this podcast has made me a customer! Thank you DPC for being at the for front for helping us hear about innovative technology and design for now and future tech to come!! 😎🤙💥☘️ Piston Bully
Thanks Mike! We genuinely want to make these engines better and appreciate folks that are smart enough to understand what we are doing. Let us know if we can help you with a project!
love this good luck getting Carb to cooperate with anything that advances efficiency that has never been their goal need those websites printed out Many thanks
This is huge! A guy who only spends three thousand a month for fuel is looking at as much as seven hundred and fifty dollars a month, has a better day knowing its going to keep doing this. Fuel prices are almost like a sin tax on say cigarettes or alcohol as they know we are going to spend this to drive anywhere and do our line of work. I just hope that the big three adapts to this technology
They probably will this emissions control system is quite costly resources are taken in high amounts to deal with this stuff not to mention the amount of them in the shop for sensors or the unit itself plus it would be a flex hey guys look our vehicles have better fuel economy then theirs it would more then likely create more competition
Absolutely game changing technology! I hadn't heard of these until tonight and it sounds like the possible applications are limitless. Very excited to see how this tech is used in the future. On a side note I wanted to thank you for listening to your audience. The ad breaks were so much better on this episode and I'm really glad they were because I was glued to my screen listening to him speak.
DFC 6.7 Ram reman engine tested at our local diesel shop with a dyno. New engine with stock and Speed of Air pistons. Results were incredible! I am doing a 5.9 rebuild. If I need pistons, these are what it’ll get. But at 5k Cdn for pistons, they are spendy! DFC claims the fuel savings will pay for them.
I don’t think current engine manufacturers would have to remove the after treatment dives on newer trucks, but then they could have these pistons bring back the longevity of their diesel engines and improve even more on emissions. I guess I’ll have to start playing the lottery so I can get a set of these for my old 7.3. Still amazed at the reduced emissions even on that old 7.3 they showed on the video, and that company (T n A Diesel) is in the next county over from where I live. Now I wish they made these for my little 1.9 TDI.
@@joshuaflowers736 That's double the mpg and 2x+ the power I get out of my mostly stock 7.3 (1996). If these numbers are real that's super impressive. Getting ready to rebuild a 7.3 for my truck and am very interested in these pistons.
The person being interviewed is very knowledgeable about the product, diesel engines, engineering, manufacturing, after treatment, regulations, and certifications. I know he's selling a product, but I didn't get any slimy salesman vibes.
I've been running black diesel in my 07 Ford 6hoe. I'm in the process of build a new motor to straight up no mix black diesel ill be looking into these
7.3 wasn't mentioned, but there is an article on the 7.3 on the site. Just an FYI unless my ears don't work. Mentioned after 26:30 No regen in 7 years? Were there other changes? Tuning? Other hard parts? Spot on with the cancer reference. Has there been any testing with camshafts that get the exhaust out instead of leaving some in there as an emissions design? I tend to agree with the analysis of the industry and EVs.
The cancer reference to me was a weak argument. Or maybe it didn’t make sense to me? Businesses are profit driven and hell-bent on getting an advantage over one another. Changing course or ending an entire companion industry is not out of bounds for them. They do it all the time! In other words, the person who withholds the cure for cancer because they’re afraid of hurting the pharmaceutical industry would be a fool. Businesses aren’t fools. Am I seeing that right?
@@edwardman1742 I think that he was making your point. Businesses want to make profit and they aren't going to be happy if you take that away from them. He said the OEs make a lot of money with after-gas devices so maybe they aren't too excited about a technology that makes after-gas obsolete?
@Edward Man the point was the pharmaceutical industry would make you and your cure dissappear. They will be ruthless to keep their industry and profits. I think you are right, just put yourself on the other party.
Hi Jim. We very definitely make pistons for the 7.3L and have a bunch on the road. Regarding the regen, I think he was referring to a CAT C-7 ACERT motor in a transit bus. There were no other changes to that engine other than the SoA technology. We actually have that test data on our website with a picture of that bus.
I have always believed we need to look at top of the design to make fuel burn better, but people get so stuck in thinking only one way, so hats to Speed of Air.
It would be awesome to see a study of the Speed of Air piston technology combined with Ducted Fuel Injection. Then somehow combine both of these into an upgrade package for these medium and heavy duty diesels.
Why would the manufacturer as you said need to retool the after system? You are talking about a piston that works better which would put less emissions down the line. DPF is here forever. So my question would be, why not use better pistons as you say?
If you just spent a billion dollars on R&D to get your new engine to pass emissions with EGR/SCR/DPF and then you find some new design that invalidates that entire investment, are you going to be happy about it?
Interesting, I have an '05 LLY with just over 300,000 miles that I would rather rebuild than purchase a newer pickup, like my brother's '18 NIssan Diesel. (which he's selling because he's tired of the tremendous repair bills)
Just took a look at one of the articles, now I understand. It's based on technology developed in India (I forget where, at least one of the universities) in early 2000's designed to get better fuel economy . They didn't have much interest in better power output, just use less fuel
I have used a set of DDP nozzles in a lly Duramax running methanol for egt control Absolutely had zero problems with those nozzles in a sled pulling truck it ran SO Smooth.
The dimples are creating hot spots similar to the way a hot spot is created on a piston when it has damage from contaminants hitting the face of the piston at least that’s what it sounds like more heat inside the cylinder
Are you using a conversion coating on the domes or is it all precipitate? I was involved in developing the mico plasma electrolytic oxidation process. Nice to see some people marketing coatings and materials science to the masses and bringing them out of the niche markets. Nice work.
I would only be concerned about carbon buildup nullifying the effect of the dimples. To me, if the pistons could make gains in a tough case scenario like a pure mechanically injected, low pressure old school diesel or a two stroke Detroit, I know I would be interested
@ronaldjones743 I own a m35a2 deuce and half, and I love that motor, I feed it my mixed of fuels, 80% filtered used motor oil, with 20% diesel with a bottle of diesel 911, and it eats it happily and even runs better then with straight diesel.
I heard of ceramic pistons because they expand such a small amount. They can put them in the engine was such a tight clearances they don’t need rings. What about that
Isuzu did that decades ago and the problem with the ceramic pistons if I recall correctly was they ran too cold and caused all sorts of side effects they couldn't deal with, mostly with oil I think 🤔
It might not have been a little more information than some of the lister's needed to hear for the first question edited to say; dual oil piston you say?
This is super exciting, but I can’t help but feel skeptical even after his examples. So many variables. Just sounds too good to be true. Like he said, the idea is not new. Even putting aside the big American makes, European companies like Mercedes and Audi have been developing diesel technology for a long time now. They have the money, the computers and resources to test something like this, yet we see no dimpled pistons. Many giant industrial companies with huge R&D budgets, testing different engine concepts, and yet no dimpled pistons. Anyone owning a game-changing patent will see investors lining up to either buy the rights or dump money into the company. Yet the company is still relatively unheard of with no mass use. I’ll try to keep an open mind. This would be incredible for my truck.
Hi Edward. Fair comments overall. We don't dispute that the OEs have the ability and resources to innovate but they aren't really incentivized to do so. Frankly, this is why there is a robust aftermarket...you can find just about anything that will outperform OE parts. We have a PHd metallurgist on our team that designed pistons for Mercedes, Porsche and Ford. Those companies wouldn't spend even a few additional pennies for an improved piston design. Our pistons are very labor intensive to produce and take many more times the labor than just punching out a slug. OEs just aren't built to do this type of work. We just came to market with pistons for the first time last month (all R&D prior to that) so we certainly don't expect to be a household name just yet.
Same here. I'm skeptical but open minded as well. I want to see numbers from customers that use it. Or 3rd party testing. If Gale Banks tested it would be great.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Weasel words. You play off working with cat then claim at the same time big manufacturers just don't want to innovate. If it really helped them reduce emissions just by switching pistons they'd gladly do it to reduce cost with after treatment and the reliability problems associated with it. I have a feeling there's not only something seriously wrong with these but you know exactly what it is wrong with them and will gladly sell crap to anyone stupid enough to buy it and laugh behind their backs at them at the same time. For others did you know in America there's a reasonable person standard for advertising? As long as they can convince a jury that no reasonable person would ever be stupid enough to fall for their advertising you can't win a false advertising suit. It's a catch 22 because the more outlandish the claims the safer the company is from a lawsuit. When it comes to advertising bullshit they literally weigh how far to go with their claims. They want to bullshit enough they can always convince a jury that a reasonable person would never fall for it, while at the same time making their claims believable enough morons fall for it. It's the height of hypocrisy because they wouldn't be saying what they say if it didn't sell their crap but then they get to go into court and claim oh we totally didn't expect anyone to actually believe that. We just like spending our large advertising budget misinforming the public for shits and giggles. Now if you think you aren't one of those morons who has ever fallen for false advertising I can list a whole bunch companies that have gotten away with it and I guarantee something you have bought is on the list. Hormone and antibiotic free meat is a big one. It's technically not false advertising. Just a clever trick on morons who don't know all meat sold in the US is free of antibiotics and hormones because it's the fucking law. If they put that on the packaging they're literally saying our shit is so bad we couldn't come up with anything better to put on the packaging. It's mostly free of feces and urine to the levels the government allows just doesn't fill you with that same warm feeling. Lucas oil treatment is another great in scam history. They used to use Briggs and Stratton engines for display. What the scammees didn't know is Briggs used to advertise how their engines could run without oil. It wasn't a scam until Lucas adapted it to start selling crap to people. Briggs got pissed off and tried to stop Lucas using their engines reliability to scam people. Briggs eventually resorted to having their salesmen go to the same shows and showing everyone it was a scam. Even Dupont, those great bastions of compassion for the consumer got involved and stopped selling Teflon to Lucas. Yeah that Dupont. The same company that profited hugely off of the misery and death of millions felt Lucas oil treatment was just a little too much for their tastes. Grass fed beef is another great scam in advertising history. Let's convince people literally the cheapest shit we can feed cows makes them taste better. We'll not only save a fortune on grain we'll also convince them to pay extra for cheaper to produce beef. Mmmm so good. The advertising on kids breakfast cereals telling you all that sugar filled crap is part of a healthy balanced diet. Also false advertising they claim no one is stupid enough to fall for but at the same time spend millions advertising because you know that makes sense. Sadly in our country you are safer selling over hyped shit than you are trying to sell a good product and telling the truth about it. So good luck to anyone who buys this product. I wouldn't get your hopes up it does everything it claims though.
Dimples on pistons dates back 40 years or so to Larry Widmer of EnDyn. He was dimpling pistons, quench areas, and combustion chambers. It never took off. We'll see.
Yes....I'd really like to see a comparison of the piston with all coatings but without the dimples compared to the dimpled one. Something tells me that the majority of the improvements they're seeing are from the crown and skirt coatings and that the dimples are more for show and might be a patent-able feature. Using these pistons on an emission controlled vehicle is bound to cause some adaptation in the after exhaust treatment to stay compliant. Increased combustion temperatures which are great for efficiency also create more NOx that the EGR and DEF are going to have to deal with. Assuming that each emission system has enough leeway to account for the increases might get you into trouble, and if there are no increases...exactly how do these pistons help anything? I've had to fix a LOT of DEF systems and under normal running conditions they stay within their injection capabilities but I'd want to see emission certification on these pistons before taking a chance with a fleet of vehicles that down the road might fail a sniff test and incur the wrath of the Greenies.
@@recoilrob324 The thermal coatings are almost entirely geared toward controlling temperature to reduce NOX. There is a definite interrelationship between the dimples and the coatings. We SEMA is starting EPA certification down at Diamond Bar in a couple of weeks, so keep an eye out for that. We hope to have certification done by July.
I really don't think the dimples cause so much turbulence. The dimples create more surface area which can retain more heat( how a catalytic converter works) which is what a diesel needs to have to have for more efficient fuel burn. The hotter a diesel engine can run safely, the better the usage of the fuel turning into heat instead of coking up from cooling. The cooling comes from the intake of fresh air which is extremely fast as it rushes over the piston in the stroke process.
I’m not so sure that is doable in the diesel application. The upper ring(keystone) has to move around or wobble in the ring land to prevent the spot or carbon causing the ring to get stuck or seize.
Hi Mitchell, We use gapless ring sets for all of our mid-duty kits. Total Seal makes them for us. The gapless ring definitely helps lessen fuel dilution which is another factor in increasing oil change intervals.
After many scientific papers since the 90s on ceramic coatings on pistons and cylinder, why only now, after that an e-truck is available, the industry decides to innovate?
To be honest, I don't have time to watch a 50 minute video, but I have to say that for something that's supposed to be so revolutionary, I'm finding very little online other than what SoA is saying about their own product. These have been around for a few years now. Why is there so little online about them? Also, since they come with Total Seal gapless rings, and the Total Seal website lists all the same benefits as SoA claims (more power, more torque, etc) I have to wonder how much of the gains are from the very expensive pistons, and how much is from just a set of rings.
If we could get a tier 4 compliant on a older diesel engine with your kits. Hopefully manufacturers will take advantage of it due to all of the emissions after treatment killing the diesel engine industry. Hopefully do completely away with all that crap and make a diesel engine last longer with less repairs and cost because of the emissions crap, and cheaper to own. Not only that but the increased horsepower and torque will also increase fuel economy which was the original reason for the diesel engine.
. . . and after all that your darling EPA will YET AGAIN lower the limits and come hound each everyone for what they are worth. The vicious cycle never ends. Don't ever forget that.
We are in the process of building a Tier4 compliant 2005 LLY Duramax. Hope to have it completed and tested at SEMA by the end of the summer. Stay tuned!!
The problem with any effienciency gains is trying to figure out who's pocket the cost savings is going to end up in...99.% of the time the answer is going to be "not yours". You will lose any real ROI to niche pricing and the labor involved to modify a production product. This is true not only for ICE, but all energy devices. Plus it's going to be up front costs, not spread out over time,...so that is yet another cost in and of itself.
First off I would like to pass on a big Semper Fi on to your guest. In relationship to emissions what a breath of fresh air, (pun intended). Since the start of emissions equipment on the commercial diesels it has been one bandaid after another after a warm fuzzy feeling causing nothing but loss of efficiency. Nothing done has done anything good for the environment, all that has been accomplished is place irreparable harm upon the industry.
"Environmental Concerns" As Im in Montana, breathing FOREST FIRE SMOKE EVERY OTHER YEAR FROM BURNING FORESTS AND I WORK IN A COAL PLANT AND THE AIR OUTSIDE THE PLANT IS WORSE THAN THE AIR INSIDE
i drove for SCHNEIDER TRUCK INTERNATIONAL TRUCKING and I convinced Don Schneider to test a conversion to propane or Compressed Natural gas on a couple of tractors for running in LA and The Bay area because there was imminent legislation to ban diesel trucks in those areas. At that time it would have cost about $10,000.00 dollars for the conversion. Economy is not as good but emissions dropped to negligible. Power of course dropped as well. He was well satisfied with the test and stated that he was going to store that away. The cost to convert a small Cummins or Small cat was about 3000.have done anys
The thing about it that manufacturers make Hugh profits of saleing parts I don’t see them backing anything that doesn’t support parts sales and services like labor
I understand you mentioned that you are not a Ford guy so perhaps my response will be a complete waste of time but I will try to give you some thoughts based on research I've done over the years. I'll try to be as brief as I can although it will get a little bit lengthy so bear with me. Long story short, unfortunately, the main issues with the 6.0 L Powerstroke will not be able to be overcome no matter what simply due to the overall poor design of the engine itself. As you may be aware of, the 6.0 L Powerstroke has a very bad history of internal combustion issues that causes the engine to get a little bit hotter such as the cooling system and as a result, it can cause problems with the engine oil cooler as well as the EGR cooler and also issues such as head gasket sealing problems. The head gaskets not being able to seal properly are not necessarily because the gaskets themselves are faulty but due to the heads themselves having a poor design as well as some other things I will get into. A lot of the reason why this is is because the engine itself is designed with only 4 head bolts surrounding the cylinders to hold the cylinder head on as compared to 6 in other Powerstroke engines such as the earlier 7.3 L and the now latest model 6.7 Powerstroke. As I'm sure you might be aware, the 7.3 L is widely regarded as one of the better diesel engines out there especially from the Ford fans and you don't really hear of too many issues with head gasket problems or cylinder problems due to heads warping and the gaskets not being able to seal properly and so on. This could obviously be due to the fact that it has a fixed geometry turbo on it and I don't believe it makes quite as much boost as the variable geometry turbos in the 6.7. (At least I don't believe there is as much pressure or boost but you can do your own research to verify this) But also, since it does have two extra bolts surrounding the combustion chamber to hold the head-on, this probably has a lot to do with it having less issues with cylinder head warping and cylinder head gaskets leaking. There are other design factors that are probably helping as well so there are probably numerous things that are helping to let the 6.7 L engine itself last a bit longer in most cases as compared to the 6.0 in the 6.4 Powerstroke engines. * (Obviously, with the 6.7 L Powerstroke having DEF fluid and those components to worry about, that is another problem all on itself but I won't get into that here.) * The other main problem with the 6.0 is that the heads themselves were designed poorly as well and they don't have as much material in between the head bolts in order to keep the head from warping or tenting or bowing and so on. If they had more material to strengthen the head in between the head bolts, it's possible that there may have been even less issues with these engines but still not a guarantee obviously. The other problem that contributed to issues with these engines is simply the fact that at that time there started to become a lot more aftermarket parts available with aftermarket tuners as well as more parts available for turbos and injectors and so on and a lot of people decided to modify their engines without considering that they were probably pushing their engines farther than they should have with the aftermarket tunes and other mods and as a result, it caused higher internal cylinder pressures than the original stock engine was meant to handle. Putting bigger turbos on combined with bigger injectors as well as larger fuel pumps and adding a performance tune and cranking that tune up will obviously cause issues with the engine if you haven't done anything to the internal parts which probably most people did not do. So, as a result, you get problems because people just didn't know what the hell they were doing when they were adding the modifications to the engine. The simple fact of the matter is, the 6.0 L as well as the 6.4 L Powerstroke engines needed to have at least six bolts around each cylinder if not 8 to provide better sealing and hopefully help the engine last longer. I'm aware that a lot of people have had EGR cooler issues as well as the oil cooler issue but a lot of people think that the problem with the head gasket sealing issue is the fact that it uses torque to yield head bolts and people automatically point to the bolts as being the problem when the actual issue is not the bolts at all. There is a gentleman that has a UA-cam channel called "Too Many Toys" and he has done quite a bit of testing and explains a lot of things with the 6.0 engine as he has one in a pick up that he owns as well and he rebuilt it and did various tests on the block surface itself as well as the mating surface of the head and showed how there could be cupping and warping even with a head that has light usage and very small clearances. He was a 9 time certified ASE Master Tech and also worked innthe development department for friction materials (brakes essentially) at one of the vehicle manufacturers. I think it might have been Ford but I'm not exactly sure if that's true or not. He also did testing between brand new Factory torque to yield bolts as well as standard ARP head bolts and found that the factory bolts had just as good of clamping force if not better than the ARP head studs. So, essentially, the factory head bolts are likely not the issue unless you are adding quite a bit more modifications to the engine. I strongly urge you to go and check out his channel if you do have any interest in all at understanding the 6.0 better or go and check out the Forum online called Ford Truck Enthusiasts. They have some really great members on there that have just as much knowledge as some of the Ford techs and they even have a few of the Ford Engineers on there from back in the day that engineered the torque shift 5 speed automatic transmission for the 6.0. Also, a lot of the memebers have very good ideas for how to improve the performance but also the reliability of the engine. There is also a company out there called Kill Devil Diesel that came up with a completely different head design for then 6.0 and they strengthened the head itself overall to help improve the head to seal with the engine and not warp or both but they also have an option for o rings around the combustion Chambers to help seal the head gaskets better as well. Their heads are also designed to flow better and provide more power and they can come and modified options as well as race options with better Springs and valves as well. They are not the only head company that has improved the 6.0 but they are one of them that definitely has a very good design that I would look to if I was going to rebuild one. One other thing that this person pointed out that I think a lot of people are not aware of is that there are a lot of issues going on with these engines as far as there being incorrect tolerances or clearances or specifications when people are rebuilding the engines. He even points out that he got a remanufactured engine from a particular place and when he did measurements of the piston to deck height clearances (I think anyway), I believe he found that his crankshaft was actually warped a little bit and some of the pistons we're not protruding the same amount as some of the other ones so there was a defect that he found after doing some measurements. I believe it was that but potentially the camshaft as well. Either way, he points out that there are probably a lot of people that are not checking the clearances properly to make sure that they are all within specification and as a result they have issues down the road since they are not correcting the problems prior to reassembling the engine and driving it down the road. He also talks about how he did a lot of research on various forums where there were a lot of 6.0 Powerstroke owners that replaced the head gaskets in their trucks or the EGR coolers only to have the exact same thing happen maybe only a few thousand miles down the road or 10,000 miles down the road. In some cases, I think that the truck was never fixed even immediately after they took it out of the shop as it had issues immediately driving down the road. This obviously meant that there were other things going on that people didn't check or they weren't cleaning things properly or they weren't making sure that the block mating surface was perfectly flat or that the heads were perfectly flat or within spec. Or, in some cases, he points out that some people were probably machining the heads when they were not supposed to be. There is an actual specification that Ford recommends that you stay within and it's only I believe 2 thousandths of an inch which is almost nothing really and so most people probably have more warpage than that with their heads and so they take them to a machine shop to have them machined. The problem with this is, even though they have machined the head flat, it still is Warped so once it is bolted down to the block, it can still have cupping or warping for various reasons. Again, I would just urge you to check out his channel and look at the Forum I mentioned if you care to. I know I'm 7 months late to the party since you typed your response 7 months ago but here's the info for anybody else that cares to read it.
This is a repeating pattern. Company makes revolutionary product. It ultimately goes nowhere. Paul Pantone's GEET technology made diesel emissions dramatically lower. And it went nowhere. Governments need "problems" to push their agendas. It never changes.
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EPA/Government should be giving tax rebates to diesel owners to have all diesel trucks converted to these pistons if they are serious about "green" tech and initiatives. If everyone saves 10-15% on fuel and reduces nox emissions by 20% then the government should be incentivizing folks to have these pistons retrofits completed
We think so too! We are actively pursuing verification with he EPA Clen Diesel program and Cana's Green Freight program. Both provide big incentives for folks voluntarily cleaning up their old diesel engines. In the US, this program is funded by the billions of dollars Volkswagon had pay the US for cheating.
Everyone can save 15 % plus on fuel by fixing the contamination problem in the fuel tank.
Pump Fuel absorbs Air.
This causes dirty Engines and Fuel Injector Cavitation....which reduces Fuel Economy.
Ox-cetane Greatly restores lost fuel economy and Performance.
We need to get Gale Banks to do a series on a side-by-side comparison of the older 5.9, lb7-lbz, and 7.3 and 6.0 builds with the Data Monster to really see in real time the benefits from stock to modified and how they stack up with tier 4 engines.
He will if he can make mega-bucks off it charging accordingly for mega-buck engine kit.
I can only imagine the science Gale will bring to the table and be the first to tell us if it's bogus or legitimate. 🤙🏻
SEMA garage has been doing extensive A/B testing on an LML for several months and early results have been extremely promising. Those tests (and the SEMA certification) will be public soon. We are also doing an LLY build now and plan to make it Tier 4 compliant w/o DPF/SCR. Stay tuned!
anything having anything to do with the 6.0 powerstroke is a waste of mankinds time and energy
The newer engine builders Dave is doing this now . A 7.3 build
I have a set in my Lly, the results are legitimate. I’m extremely happy with them.
Can I ask you what the cost of those pistons were? I also have that same motor
@@barrylenoble6705I bought a set for my 7.3 and it cost a little under $4000
@barrylenoble6705 more info than you asked for but.... I made an account today in order to see price. And currently they are out of stock it seems but also says a set is 4k for my 16 LML. Hope that helps you. They also have a calculator on it to help predict savings (over 350k miles) and when I even reduce the "fuel savings percentage" to half of what he claims in the video it is $12k savings in 350k miles which for me if I keep daily driving my truck would be almost 12 years at the longest. And I would save about $1000 a year. So at half of their claims in theory it would take me 4 years for it to "pay for itself" and if the emissions really are reduced enough to stop and drastically reduce soot output and such these piston heads are game changing.
I worked with some of the guys that ran that mining truck he was talking about. They were nuts over the results they got. Interesting that they are backing into smaller engines now.
What an incredible episode! Super cool technology finally coming to the diesel market.
Ironically Gail Banks has been screaming for the better of forty years that efficient combustion in diesel was better than exhaust after treatment. Soot is proof of inefficient combustion. SOOT BAD!
Thanks for having these guys on. I follow Gentry & Sons Trucking and those guys have been crazy over these pistons and swear by them. I think he said on one of his videos that Speed of Air was going to save the trucking industry.
I agree, and haven't seen Tim really detail any results from these pistons in his trucks. A side by side comparison would be great.
@@scubasteve7946 Totally. Tim seemed to just disappear on this. TBH, he seems to be all over the place since the fire
If dimpling the piston can make this much difference, what would it be if they dimpled the heads too?
Great question! We've done a ton of work with heads (and turbos). If we did everything we could to the engine, we'd have about 85% of the total benefit tied up in the piston design. We found it wouldn't really be cost effective to do the heads for the small additional gain.
@@speedofair How does this affect light-load soot production? So people can idle their trucks at night (if needed) in cold weather without plugging up the DPF??
@@ArmyProperty It will reduce soot at all operating conditions. Of course soot production is relative to heat so idling will always be worse than under constant load.
@speedofairenginetechnologi1721 I had a similar though, question regarding the valves themselves. Could those be dimpled in the intake valve face? But then, also secondary or bypass filtration for 2-15 micron material removal. Thanks.
Ironically Gail Banks has been screaming for the better of forty years that efficient combustion in diesel was better than exhaust after treatment. Soot is proof of inefficient combustion. SOOT BAD!
Update 5/6/23 plus the more condensed the air going in the more efficient the combustion too. Not compressed that's what a Turbo dose but condensed a better intercooler. Making the air denser.
He's not wrong. If you listen to his latest Duramax piston comments, he is making our case for us!
All I can say is WOW!!!!
Super informative, Im stoked to see a company so innovative come forth with all the R&D that's gone into these pistons, just listening to this podcast has made me a customer!
Thank you DPC for being at the for front for helping us hear about innovative technology and design for now and future tech to come!! 😎🤙💥☘️
Piston Bully
Thanks Mike! We genuinely want to make these engines better and appreciate folks that are smart enough to understand what we are doing. Let us know if we can help you with a project!
love this good luck getting Carb to cooperate with anything that advances efficiency that has never been their goal need those websites printed out Many thanks
Exactly. There is a agenda and it's not reducing pollution or anything else they publicly state.
@@whatyoumakeofit6635exactly it's all about total control of the population
This is huge! A guy who only spends three thousand a month for fuel is looking at as much as seven hundred and fifty dollars a month, has a better day knowing its going to keep doing this. Fuel prices are almost like a sin tax on say cigarettes or alcohol as they know we are going to spend this to drive anywhere and do our line of work. I just hope that the big three adapts to this technology
They probably will this emissions control system is quite costly resources are taken in high amounts to deal with this stuff not to mention the amount of them in the shop for sensors or the unit itself plus it would be a flex hey guys look our vehicles have better fuel economy then theirs it would more then likely create more competition
This will also help with EGR valve longevity because EGRs main failure point is soot build up
who dafuq runs an egr in the first place ? 😂😂😂
Absolutely game changing technology! I hadn't heard of these until tonight and it sounds like the possible applications are limitless. Very excited to see how this tech is used in the future.
On a side note I wanted to thank you for listening to your audience. The ad breaks were so much better on this episode and I'm really glad they were because I was glued to my screen listening to him speak.
Great podcast. Here's a company we all need to support. Their willingness to meet the customer needs is awesome!
Thanks, Timothy!
Banks is located in Asuza California. He took down the newest GM diesel engine. These pistons needs to be in Gales hands. I'm sure he already knows.
DFC 6.7 Ram reman engine tested at our local diesel shop with a dyno. New engine with stock and Speed of Air pistons. Results were incredible! I am doing a 5.9 rebuild.
If I need pistons, these are what it’ll get.
But at 5k Cdn for pistons, they are spendy!
DFC claims the fuel savings will pay for them.
We've improved manufacturing efficiency to get the pricing down. Regardless, they will pay you back and make you money!
@@speedofair
Where did I buy these new pistons, for a 2008 dodge Cummins 6.7 liter, 2005 dodge Cummins 5.9 liter
I don’t think current engine manufacturers would have to remove the after treatment dives on newer trucks, but then they could have these pistons bring back the longevity of their diesel engines and improve even more on emissions. I guess I’ll have to start playing the lottery so I can get a set of these for my old 7.3. Still amazed at the reduced emissions even on that old 7.3 they showed on the video, and that company (T n A Diesel) is in the next county over from where I live. Now I wish they made these for my little 1.9 TDI.
If you can dream it, make it.
Plus 99% of the emissions stuff they force you to do is bullshit anyways.
I would like to see a test on the GE Evolution 8 locomotive engines. They need all the help they can get.
Hadn't even thought about all the diesel trains out there, real good point.
ships and tugs too
That would be awesome in a 460 . Possibly get over 16 mpg ?
Well, looks like I’m buying pistons for the 7.3L
they're 4g's but worth it. mild street setup made 530hp with 1300lb-ft. eco tune was 24mpg.
@@joshuaflowers736
That's double the mpg and 2x+ the power I get out of my mostly stock 7.3 (1996). If these numbers are real that's super impressive. Getting ready to rebuild a 7.3 for my truck and am very interested in these pistons.
These only help with direct injection diesels ? Any for the indirect , like a 6.5 turbo diesel ?
The person being interviewed is very knowledgeable about the product, diesel engines, engineering, manufacturing, after treatment, regulations, and certifications. I know he's selling a product, but I didn't get any slimy salesman vibes.
Thanks, Allen. We don't want to sell anything to anyone if it doesn't work. We take this seriously...
I'd love to see this engine technology applied to the old screaming Jimmy!
How can we invest? Would love to see this in the small diesel engine market.
Amazing info. Great episode.
Really cool topic. I would never have know about this now I’m really interested.
I've been running black diesel in my 07 Ford 6hoe. I'm in the process of build a new motor to straight up no mix black diesel ill be looking into these
What about the 6-71 Detroit, or 92 series, or any 2stroke?
I hope they make something for the eco diesel light duty diesel. 🙏🏼🙏🏼
I'm super excited about this and I'd like to be apart of this!! This is a game changer!
7.3 wasn't mentioned, but there is an article on the 7.3 on the site. Just an FYI unless my ears don't work. Mentioned after 26:30
No regen in 7 years? Were there other changes? Tuning? Other hard parts?
Spot on with the cancer reference.
Has there been any testing with camshafts that get the exhaust out instead of leaving some in there as an emissions design?
I tend to agree with the analysis of the industry and EVs.
The cancer reference to me was a weak argument. Or maybe it didn’t make sense to me? Businesses are profit driven and hell-bent on getting an advantage over one another. Changing course or ending an entire companion industry is not out of bounds for them. They do it all the time!
In other words, the person who withholds the cure for cancer because they’re afraid of hurting the pharmaceutical industry would be a fool. Businesses aren’t fools. Am I seeing that right?
@@edwardman1742 I think that he was making your point. Businesses want to make profit and they aren't going to be happy if you take that away from them. He said the OEs make a lot of money with after-gas devices so maybe they aren't too excited about a technology that makes after-gas obsolete?
@Edward Man the point was the pharmaceutical industry would make you and your cure dissappear. They will be ruthless to keep their industry and profits. I think you are right, just put yourself on the other party.
Hi Jim. We very definitely make pistons for the 7.3L and have a bunch on the road. Regarding the regen, I think he was referring to a CAT C-7 ACERT motor in a transit bus. There were no other changes to that engine other than the SoA technology. We actually have that test data on our website with a picture of that bus.
@@JackLandon-zi4io Would it make after-gas devices obsolete, or just last longer/be more reliable? I’d think the later.
Man, if you get a 3406E working with a DOC to run in CA I will be a test pig for it. Have a perfect home for one 👍
I have always believed we need to look at top of the design to make fuel burn better, but people get so stuck in thinking only one way, so hats to Speed of Air.
It would be awesome to see a study of the Speed of Air piston technology combined with Ducted Fuel Injection. Then somehow combine both of these into an upgrade package for these medium and heavy duty diesels.
I would go furtherm Ducted Fuel injection, these pistons + water/meth injection. I'd love to see the soot and nox numbers with that combination.
I'm wondering what this piston technology could do for the rail and marine engines, specifically the two-stroke EMD.
Or ancient alco engines.
You are getting it!
These guys need to work with Edison Moters.
Why would the manufacturer as you said need to retool the after system? You are talking about a piston that works better which would put less emissions down the line. DPF is here forever. So my question would be, why not use better pistons as you say?
If you just spent a billion dollars on R&D to get your new engine to pass emissions with EGR/SCR/DPF and then you find some new design that invalidates that entire investment, are you going to be happy about it?
Nice interview, however the full name of your guest and possible direct contact info r not in the description below the video.
Interesting, I have an '05 LLY with just over 300,000 miles that I would rather rebuild than purchase a newer pickup, like my brother's '18 NIssan Diesel. (which he's selling because he's tired of the tremendous repair bills)
This is epic, very expensive but amazing for us daily driver guys (and gals)
Just took a look at one of the articles, now I understand.
It's based on technology developed in India (I forget where, at least one of the universities) in early 2000's designed to get better fuel economy . They didn't have much interest in better power output, just use less fuel
I know the channel is all about Diesel, but would this piston benefit a gasoline engine as well?
Yes sir! We have done almost every fuel used in the ICE! Combustion efficiency doesn't discriminate!
This is what almost all new Diesels have Teflon coated skirts but the crown ceramic coating still isn't mainstream yet...
First thanks for your service to our country. Can you build pistons for the smaller engines, ie. Kabota, yanmar s Isuzus ?
I want these on my 07 series 60 yesterday
So I’m guessing that we might have the ability of getting the parts but how can one design change make this happen? It sounds awesome.
Combined with DDP injectors. 👍💪
I have used a set of DDP nozzles in a lly Duramax running methanol for egt control Absolutely had zero problems with those nozzles in a sled pulling truck it ran SO Smooth.
Prices?
The dimples are creating hot spots similar to the way a hot spot is created on a piston when it has damage from contaminants hitting the face of the piston at least that’s what it sounds like more heat inside the cylinder
Are you using a conversion coating on the domes or is it all precipitate?
I was involved in developing the mico plasma electrolytic oxidation process. Nice to see some people marketing coatings and materials science to the masses and bringing them out of the niche markets.
Nice work.
I would only be concerned about carbon buildup nullifying the effect of the dimples. To me, if the pistons could make gains in a tough case scenario like a pure mechanically injected, low pressure old school diesel or a two stroke Detroit, I know I would be interested
It actually reduces carbon build up significantly. We have some before and after pictures on our Facebook page demonstrating that effect.
Someone needs to produce an diesel engine similar to the old multifuel in the deuce and halfs.
Yeah buddy you couldn't stop one of those.
When I was on shore duty in the Navy we had a 30 ton multifuel that thing would move the world.
@ronaldjones743 I own a m35a2 deuce and half, and I love that motor, I feed it my mixed of fuels, 80% filtered used motor oil, with 20% diesel with a bottle of diesel 911, and it eats it happily and even runs better then with straight diesel.
Would love to see these made available for a 1.9 TDI
Sounds like something our 6.0's can benefit from.
Had great success with the 6.0. Give us a call!
@Speed of Air Engine Technologies what's the pricing on a set for a 6.0 and are these stronger than factory light duty diesel pistons.
I heard of ceramic pistons because they expand such a small amount. They can put them in the engine was such a tight clearances they don’t need rings. What about that
Isuzu did that decades ago and the problem with the ceramic pistons if I recall correctly was they ran too cold and caused all sorts of side effects they couldn't deal with, mostly with oil I think 🤔
It might not have been a little more information than some of the lister's needed to hear for the first question edited to say; dual oil piston you say?
What about 7.3 powerstrokes? Are y’all gonna do a piston for them?
Tons of them! ua-cam.com/video/a4yojpsD9jw/v-deo.htmlsi=tOVEMDNrHk-zn40H
They have it for sale already, go to speed of air site
Oh ok, cool. Thank ya
I got them for my 2000 Excursion 7.3.
This is super exciting, but I can’t help but feel skeptical even after his examples. So many variables. Just sounds too good to be true. Like he said, the idea is not new. Even putting aside the big American makes, European companies like Mercedes and Audi have been developing diesel technology for a long time now. They have the money, the computers and resources to test something like this, yet we see no dimpled pistons. Many giant industrial companies with huge R&D budgets, testing different engine concepts, and yet no dimpled pistons. Anyone owning a game-changing patent will see investors lining up to either buy the rights or dump money into the company. Yet the company is still relatively unheard of with no mass use.
I’ll try to keep an open mind. This would be incredible for my truck.
Hi Edward. Fair comments overall. We don't dispute that the OEs have the ability and resources to innovate but they aren't really incentivized to do so. Frankly, this is why there is a robust aftermarket...you can find just about anything that will outperform OE parts. We have a PHd metallurgist on our team that designed pistons for Mercedes, Porsche and Ford. Those companies wouldn't spend even a few additional pennies for an improved piston design. Our pistons are very labor intensive to produce and take many more times the labor than just punching out a slug. OEs just aren't built to do this type of work. We just came to market with pistons for the first time last month (all R&D prior to that) so we certainly don't expect to be a household name just yet.
@@speedofair thank you for the thoughtful response. I’m excited about your tech and looking forward to seeing your company grow.
Same here. I'm skeptical but open minded as well. I want to see numbers from customers that use it. Or 3rd party testing. If Gale Banks tested it would be great.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Weasel words. You play off working with cat then claim at the same time big manufacturers just don't want to innovate.
If it really helped them reduce emissions just by switching pistons they'd gladly do it to reduce cost with after treatment and the reliability problems associated with it.
I have a feeling there's not only something seriously wrong with these but you know exactly what it is wrong with them and will gladly sell crap to anyone stupid enough to buy it and laugh behind their backs at them at the same time.
For others did you know in America there's a reasonable person standard for advertising? As long as they can convince a jury that no reasonable person would ever be stupid enough to fall for their advertising you can't win a false advertising suit. It's a catch 22 because the more outlandish the claims the safer the company is from a lawsuit.
When it comes to advertising bullshit they literally weigh how far to go with their claims. They want to bullshit enough they can always convince a jury that a reasonable person would never fall for it, while at the same time making their claims believable enough morons fall for it. It's the height of hypocrisy because they wouldn't be saying what they say if it didn't sell their crap but then they get to go into court and claim oh we totally didn't expect anyone to actually believe that. We just like spending our large advertising budget misinforming the public for shits and giggles.
Now if you think you aren't one of those morons who has ever fallen for false advertising I can list a whole bunch companies that have gotten away with it and I guarantee something you have bought is on the list.
Hormone and antibiotic free meat is a big one. It's technically not false advertising. Just a clever trick on morons who don't know all meat sold in the US is free of antibiotics and hormones because it's the fucking law. If they put that on the packaging they're literally saying our shit is so bad we couldn't come up with anything better to put on the packaging. It's mostly free of feces and urine to the levels the government allows just doesn't fill you with that same warm feeling.
Lucas oil treatment is another great in scam history. They used to use Briggs and Stratton engines for display. What the scammees didn't know is Briggs used to advertise how their engines could run without oil. It wasn't a scam until Lucas adapted it to start selling crap to people. Briggs got pissed off and tried to stop Lucas using their engines reliability to scam people. Briggs eventually resorted to having their salesmen go to the same shows and showing everyone it was a scam. Even Dupont, those great bastions of compassion for the consumer got involved and stopped selling Teflon to Lucas. Yeah that Dupont. The same company that profited hugely off of the misery and death of millions felt Lucas oil treatment was just a little too much for their tastes.
Grass fed beef is another great scam in advertising history. Let's convince people literally the cheapest shit we can feed cows makes them taste better. We'll not only save a fortune on grain we'll also convince them to pay extra for cheaper to produce beef. Mmmm so good.
The advertising on kids breakfast cereals telling you all that sugar filled crap is part of a healthy balanced diet. Also false advertising they claim no one is stupid enough to fall for but at the same time spend millions advertising because you know that makes sense.
Sadly in our country you are safer selling over hyped shit than you are trying to sell a good product and telling the truth about it.
So good luck to anyone who buys this product. I wouldn't get your hopes up it does everything it claims though.
Dimples on pistons dates back 40 years or so to Larry Widmer of EnDyn. He was dimpling pistons, quench areas, and combustion chambers.
It never took off.
We'll see.
Yes....I'd really like to see a comparison of the piston with all coatings but without the dimples compared to the dimpled one. Something tells me that the majority of the improvements they're seeing are from the crown and skirt coatings and that the dimples are more for show and might be a patent-able feature.
Using these pistons on an emission controlled vehicle is bound to cause some adaptation in the after exhaust treatment to stay compliant. Increased combustion temperatures which are great for efficiency also create more NOx that the EGR and DEF are going to have to deal with. Assuming that each emission system has enough leeway to account for the increases might get you into trouble, and if there are no increases...exactly how do these pistons help anything?
I've had to fix a LOT of DEF systems and under normal running conditions they stay within their injection capabilities but I'd want to see emission certification on these pistons before taking a chance with a fleet of vehicles that down the road might fail a sniff test and incur the wrath of the Greenies.
@@recoilrob324 The thermal coatings are almost entirely geared toward controlling temperature to reduce NOX. There is a definite interrelationship between the dimples and the coatings. We SEMA is starting EPA certification down at Diamond Bar in a couple of weeks, so keep an eye out for that. We hope to have certification done by July.
Hope they make them for my om642
hate to tell you, but Robert Yates of NASCAR fame was using this technique back in the '80's. just saying.
I really don't think the dimples cause so much turbulence. The dimples create more surface area which can retain more heat( how a catalytic converter works) which is what a diesel needs to have to have for more efficient fuel burn. The hotter a diesel engine can run safely, the better the usage of the fuel turning into heat instead of coking up from cooling. The cooling comes from the intake of fresh air which is extremely fast as it rushes over the piston in the stroke process.
I heard a lot of sales promises but absolutely no technology. Disappointed. How do coated stock parts compare to dimples?
What's the price range on these for an 7.3l diesel from 99 to 02 ?
Great show
But what if you don’t have facebook?
heres one for you to babble on about...
what happened to rudolf diesel?
I’d like to see if this piston could possibly make tuning completely legal since it sees so many positive numbers
Just wish they weren't so expensive..love the technology though!
Do have one for dt466
Can you speak combined with gapless rings to increase the efficiency even more
I’m not so sure that is doable in the diesel application. The upper ring(keystone) has to move around or wobble in the ring land to prevent the spot or carbon causing the ring to get stuck or seize.
Hi Mitchell, We use gapless ring sets for all of our mid-duty kits. Total Seal makes them for us. The gapless ring definitely helps lessen fuel dilution which is another factor in increasing oil change intervals.
Green Diesel Engineering! They have amazing engine and trans tunes.
Awesome stuff!
Would this help with a 6.5 turbo diesel ?
After many scientific papers since the 90s on ceramic coatings on pistons and cylinder, why only now, after that an e-truck is available, the industry decides to innovate?
As long these things work is what i care about
Looks like Sonex Research piston in Annapolis, Maryland,
Makes me want to buy a truck with a shot engine so I can rebuild it w these new pistons. A 6.4 super duty which is known for crap pistons.
I have a 12.7(60 ) series do you have the piston for them models.
You just answered my question
To be honest, I don't have time to watch a 50 minute video, but I have to say that for something that's supposed to be so revolutionary, I'm finding very little online other than what SoA is saying about their own product. These have been around for a few years now. Why is there so little online about them?
Also, since they come with Total Seal gapless rings, and the Total Seal website lists all the same benefits as SoA claims (more power, more torque, etc) I have to wonder how much of the gains are from the very expensive pistons, and how much is from just a set of rings.
What if we put catalytic converter material in the combustion chamber?
If these are as good as they are marketed, the Chinese will be knocking the technology off in the next few months.
Can you share some contact info for these people please.
What about an older diesel car, say an old Mercedes perhaps?
If we could get a tier 4 compliant on a older diesel engine with your kits. Hopefully manufacturers will take advantage of it due to all of the emissions after treatment killing the diesel engine industry. Hopefully do completely away with all that crap and make a diesel engine last longer with less repairs and cost because of the emissions crap, and cheaper to own. Not only that but the increased horsepower and torque will also increase fuel economy which was the original reason for the diesel engine.
. . . and after all that your darling EPA will YET AGAIN lower the limits and come hound each everyone for what they are worth. The vicious cycle never ends. Don't ever forget that.
@@GIGABACHI yes you are correct on that.
We are in the process of building a Tier4 compliant 2005 LLY Duramax. Hope to have it completed and tested at SEMA by the end of the summer. Stay tuned!!
Ouch, 3800usd for a set for my 6.0, that's not very affordable.
I agree, pretty stupidly priced. If they sold them at a reasonable price they would sell FAR more sets of them making exponentially more money.
The problem with any effienciency gains is trying to figure out who's pocket the cost savings is going to end up in...99.% of the time the answer is going to be "not yours". You will lose any real ROI to niche pricing and the labor involved to modify a production product. This is true not only for ICE, but all energy devices. Plus it's going to be up front costs, not spread out over time,...so that is yet another cost in and of itself.
First off I would like to pass on a big Semper Fi on to your guest.
In relationship to emissions what a breath of fresh air, (pun intended). Since the start of emissions equipment on the commercial diesels it has been one bandaid after another after a warm fuzzy feeling causing nothing but loss of efficiency. Nothing done has done anything good for the environment, all that has been accomplished is place irreparable harm upon the industry.
"Environmental Concerns"
As Im in Montana, breathing FOREST FIRE SMOKE EVERY OTHER YEAR FROM BURNING FORESTS
AND I WORK IN A COAL PLANT AND THE AIR OUTSIDE THE PLANT IS WORSE THAN THE AIR INSIDE
#2 grade ship fuel is the most dense, its one step up from asphalt.
Come on man!
Sounds too good to be true, somebody should have figured this out years ago.
i drove for SCHNEIDER TRUCK INTERNATIONAL TRUCKING and I convinced Don Schneider to test a conversion to propane or Compressed Natural gas on a couple of tractors for running in LA and The Bay area because there was imminent legislation to ban diesel trucks in those areas. At that time it would have cost about $10,000.00 dollars for the conversion. Economy is not as good but emissions dropped to negligible. Power of course dropped as well. He was well satisfied with the test and stated that he was going to store that away. The cost to convert a small Cummins or Small cat was about 3000.have done anys
Cat has a CNG conversion for mine haul trucks...$1 million/truck + needed infrastructure
The thing about it that manufacturers make Hugh profits of saleing parts
I don’t see them backing anything that doesn’t support parts sales and services like labor
Not that im a ford guy but i wonder if this would solve some of the issues with the 6.0 diesel..
Not like its worth it but..😅
I understand you mentioned that you are not a Ford guy so perhaps my response will be a complete waste of time but I will try to give you some thoughts based on research I've done over the years. I'll try to be as brief as I can although it will get a little bit lengthy so bear with me.
Long story short, unfortunately, the main issues with the 6.0 L Powerstroke will not be able to be overcome no matter what simply due to the overall poor design of the engine itself. As you may be aware of, the 6.0 L Powerstroke has a very bad history of internal combustion issues that causes the engine to get a little bit hotter such as the cooling system and as a result, it can cause problems with the engine oil cooler as well as the EGR cooler and also issues such as head gasket sealing problems. The head gaskets not being able to seal properly are not necessarily because the gaskets themselves are faulty but due to the heads themselves having a poor design as well as some other things I will get into.
A lot of the reason why this is is because the engine itself is designed with only 4 head bolts surrounding the cylinders to hold the cylinder head on as compared to 6 in other Powerstroke engines such as the earlier 7.3 L and the now latest model 6.7 Powerstroke.
As I'm sure you might be aware, the 7.3 L is widely regarded as one of the better diesel engines out there especially from the Ford fans and you don't really hear of too many issues with head gasket problems or cylinder problems due to heads warping and the gaskets not being able to seal properly and so on. This could obviously be due to the fact that it has a fixed geometry turbo on it and I don't believe it makes quite as much boost as the variable geometry turbos in the 6.7. (At least I don't believe there is as much pressure or boost but you can do your own research to verify this) But also, since it does have two extra bolts surrounding the combustion chamber to hold the head-on, this probably has a lot to do with it having less issues with cylinder head warping and cylinder head gaskets leaking.
There are other design factors that are probably helping as well so there are probably numerous things that are helping to let the 6.7 L engine itself last a bit longer in most cases as compared to the 6.0 in the 6.4 Powerstroke engines.
* (Obviously, with the 6.7 L Powerstroke having DEF fluid and those components to worry about, that is another problem all on itself but I won't get into that here.) *
The other main problem with the 6.0 is that the heads themselves were designed poorly as well and they don't have as much material in between the head bolts in order to keep the head from warping or tenting or bowing and so on. If they had more material to strengthen the head in between the head bolts, it's possible that there may have been even less issues with these engines but still not a guarantee obviously.
The other problem that contributed to issues with these engines is simply the fact that at that time there started to become a lot more aftermarket parts available with aftermarket tuners as well as more parts available for turbos and injectors and so on and a lot of people decided to modify their engines without considering that they were probably pushing their engines farther than they should have with the aftermarket tunes and other mods and as a result, it caused higher internal cylinder pressures than the original stock engine was meant to handle.
Putting bigger turbos on combined with bigger injectors as well as larger fuel pumps and adding a performance tune and cranking that tune up will obviously cause issues with the engine if you haven't done anything to the internal parts which probably most people did not do. So, as a result, you get problems because people just didn't know what the hell they were doing when they were adding the modifications to the engine.
The simple fact of the matter is, the 6.0 L as well as the 6.4 L Powerstroke engines needed to have at least six bolts around each cylinder if not 8 to provide better sealing and hopefully help the engine last longer.
I'm aware that a lot of people have had EGR cooler issues as well as the oil cooler issue but a lot of people think that the problem with the head gasket sealing issue is the fact that it uses torque to yield head bolts and people automatically point to the bolts as being the problem when the actual issue is not the bolts at all.
There is a gentleman that has a UA-cam channel called "Too Many Toys" and he has done quite a bit of testing and explains a lot of things with the 6.0 engine as he has one in a pick up that he owns as well and he rebuilt it and did various tests on the block surface itself as well as the mating surface of the head and showed how there could be cupping and warping even with a head that has light usage and very small clearances. He was a 9 time certified ASE Master Tech and also worked innthe development department for friction materials (brakes essentially) at one of the vehicle manufacturers. I think it might have been Ford but I'm not exactly sure if that's true or not.
He also did testing between brand new Factory torque to yield bolts as well as standard ARP head bolts and found that the factory bolts had just as good of clamping force if not better than the ARP head studs. So, essentially, the factory head bolts are likely not the issue unless you are adding quite a bit more modifications to the engine.
I strongly urge you to go and check out his channel if you do have any interest in all at understanding the 6.0 better or go and check out the Forum online called Ford Truck Enthusiasts. They have some really great members on there that have just as much knowledge as some of the Ford techs and they even have a few of the Ford Engineers on there from back in the day that engineered the torque shift 5 speed automatic transmission for the 6.0. Also, a lot of the memebers have very good ideas for how to improve the performance but also the reliability of the engine.
There is also a company out there called Kill Devil Diesel that came up with a completely different head design for then 6.0 and they strengthened the head itself overall to help improve the head to seal with the engine and not warp or both but they also have an option for o rings around the combustion Chambers to help seal the head gaskets better as well. Their heads are also designed to flow better and provide more power and they can come and modified options as well as race options with better Springs and valves as well. They are not the only head company that has improved the 6.0 but they are one of them that definitely has a very good design that I would look to if I was going to rebuild one.
One other thing that this person pointed out that I think a lot of people are not aware of is that there are a lot of issues going on with these engines as far as there being incorrect tolerances or clearances or specifications when people are rebuilding the engines. He even points out that he got a remanufactured engine from a particular place and when he did measurements of the piston to deck height clearances (I think anyway), I believe he found that his crankshaft was actually warped a little bit and some of the pistons we're not protruding the same amount as some of the other ones so there was a defect that he found after doing some measurements.
I believe it was that but potentially the camshaft as well.
Either way, he points out that there are probably a lot of people that are not checking the clearances properly to make sure that they are all within specification and as a result they have issues down the road since they are not correcting the problems prior to reassembling the engine and driving it down the road.
He also talks about how he did a lot of research on various forums where there were a lot of 6.0 Powerstroke owners that replaced the head gaskets in their trucks or the EGR coolers only to have the exact same thing happen maybe only a few thousand miles down the road or 10,000 miles down the road. In some cases, I think that the truck was never fixed even immediately after they took it out of the shop as it had issues immediately driving down the road. This obviously meant that there were other things going on that people didn't check or they weren't cleaning things properly or they weren't making sure that the block mating surface was perfectly flat or that the heads were perfectly flat or within spec.
Or, in some cases, he points out that some people were probably machining the heads when they were not supposed to be. There is an actual specification that Ford recommends that you stay within and it's only I believe 2 thousandths of an inch which is almost nothing really and so most people probably have more warpage than that with their heads and so they take them to a machine shop to have them machined. The problem with this is, even though they have machined the head flat, it still is Warped so once it is bolted down to the block, it can still have cupping or warping for various reasons.
Again, I would just urge you to check out his channel and look at the Forum I mentioned if you care to.
I know I'm 7 months late to the party since you typed your response 7 months ago but here's the info for anybody else that cares to read it.
I’m sorry but a 9 mpg gain in fuel economy I’m calling BS
Need more proof
They tried it 40 years ago and they don't hold up. Been there done that
Shows what can happen when the Government gets out of the way. Better performance through innovation.
It seems they have effectively reduced sinusoidal depleneration!
This is a repeating pattern. Company makes revolutionary product. It ultimately goes nowhere. Paul Pantone's GEET technology made diesel emissions dramatically lower. And it went nowhere. Governments need "problems" to push their agendas. It never changes.