Bolt Action Italian Army Project Blog #1: Why Italians? A Look at the Army Ahead
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
- A bit of a longer video, and plenty of talking this time! Explaining the why, how and what I've got in mind for my Bolt Action Italian army, bearing in mind I've not yet had an opportunity to actually put them on the tabletop... this'll be a work in progress as it gets thrashed or wallops my opponent, who knows?! At least the logic seems sound!
00:00 - Intro
00:56 - Why Bolt Action?
03:09 - Why Italians?
08:01 - The Miniatures: Thoughts on the Army
Thanks to Producer Patrons Alan Nuttall, Kyrie Crawford, Andrew, Jimmy, and Rod - as well as all the other Patrons that made this video possible, and Exit23 Games for recording equipment that helps keep the channel ticking over! Find out more at the following links:
/ sonicsledgehammer
/ sonicsledge
/ sonicsledgehammer
ko-fi.com/docwholigan
exit23.games - Ігри
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Very interesting, I tend to agree with you about French and Italian soldiers, some incredibly good quality and some ( often conscripts) very bad. I really dislike the jokes about " cheese eating surrender monkeys " or " Italian tanks having 5 gears ..1 forward anf 4 reverse " especially when it comes from armchair historians.
Yes. Italian tanks wouldn't even need more than one reverse gear as they were rarely intact enough to retreat. Or recover for that matter. I genuinely can't believe that the Italians really had no formal system of training or equipment for recovering their damaged AFVs. I can't imagine how vehicles this doctrinal failure cost them.
The reality of Italy in WWII was that the country wasn't anytime ready for a modern war, dictatorship's propaganda apart, we didn't had any real industrial capacity, most of our artillery was outdated, the higher ups were more interested in filling up their pockets (look how the awful Breda LMG was choosen against the chzec ZB v26), and a lot of national treasure had been lost to fight two wars. Plus add the fact that a LOT of italians didn't understand the war and REALLY despised their "ally", nazi Germany, a lot of high born people was more anglophile, for the support UK had given to Italy in her struggle for indipendence.
Thank you , Troy .
🐺
Why Bolt Action? Why not? As long as you’re having fun who cares? And if the Mrs will play with you…that’s a win win! Awesome as always! Cheers
Hey, Italian fan here! I appreciate you taking interest in our story. With all our undeniable faults from last century, we do have merits, too (as everyone).
Keep it up, bossman!
My grandfather was a Captain in the Alpini, Italy’s crack group of elite Alipine commandos that operated in the Alps. My grandfather defected when Mussolini came into power, and he joined the partisans, as did a lot of his peers. He spent most of his time in WW2 fighting with partisans behind enemy lines conducting espionage and supporting the underground movement. He spent time all over German occupied territory and he survived through sheer grit and determination. He was a crack shot even though he lost the top of his index finger. And man could he climb, he would hide in the attics of sympathisers and would climb from attic to attic to avoid detection. He told me that his time amongst the Yugoslav’s was the hardest. He said they were crueler than the Nazi’s were. I grew up without a father so my grandfather was my whole world. And his whole world was the Alpini. He was so proud of his service, even though it cost him so much, including his brother, who was captured and executed. I served in the Australian army in the infantry. It was because of him I enlisted. I still miss him everyday.
Woah! Sounds like quite a character. I'll definitely need to pay attention to how I'm including the Alpini, then, that's quite a tale.
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio Thanks for the kind words. My nonno's (grandfather's) name was Pierino (in english, Peter) Ferrando. He certainly was a character. He was a gentle soul, but occasionally you would see a flickering of that righteous fire in him. Everything he did, he excelled at. So I can just imagine the type of soldier he was. You would get glimpses of it. He used to sleep underneath the house when it got hot. There was only 2 feet of space under there but he was comfortable because that's how he escaped detection during the war. He would sleep during the day in tiny dugouts and then move about by night. Really looking forward to seeing what you're going to do with this series. I'm a huge WW2 enthusiast, particularly because of my grandfather. Have seen most of your WW2 paint videos. I have a huge backlog of Flames of War stuff to build and paint (3 starter sets, 2 army boxes and quite a few rifleman and smg platoons). I've thought about kitbashing some Flames of War figures to create Alpini, but after seeing your video I'll keep an eye on your Italian builds and will definitely invest in the War Games Atlantic Italian pack.
I personally like when you take a dive into the history of some of the real world minis you paint. For me, that's half the reason I enjoy watching you paint WWII and other historical minis. It's like a painting tutorial and a little history lesson all rolled up into one. Never knew there was such a thing as a Bob Semple tank until I watched you paint the mini for it. After that video I had to go read more about it myself.
my first two 28mm WW2 armies were Italy (based on the Alps campaign/Yugoslavia/Greece) and early war French. AVANTI SAVOIA
Played my first Bolt Action game with two of my sons last weekend. Quote - "You should get some Italians dad". Me - "I already have 19 projects on the go". I shall watch your project with interest and try to stay away from any and every avenue that leads to me pushing the buy now button.
nice video, I took late war european italians to wintercon in Canberra Downunder and won best minor trophy so they can win battles, especially if you have three + kills and are running about +2 morale even your green unit is tough, while vets practically ignore a few pins :)
Why the Italians? For Captain Alberto Bertorelli and the beautiful ladies obviously.
When comparing tabletop ww2 games to pc games i like to compare Bolt Action to Company of Heroes, where chain of command is more like a small scale Graviteam Tactics.
Very inspiring. I am planning on picking up some Italians to run an early war Eastern Front army for Chain of Command. Those huge squads are just too ridiculous not to run!
I want to play Italians because they have the best drip. Check out those feathers! I recall an Italian general early in the N African campaign who wore a blue cape. Sounds fun to paint.
thanks for sharing your army! I am building Balkan theater Italians (3D Breed) to fight my Greeks (Studio Historia). Your ideas will come in handy.
I've also just started a Bolt Action army, quite accidentally by picking up an Italian plastic infantry set from Warlord because they are such nice figures, and then a friend saw them and wanted to get into the hobby, so I've just been continuing with the Italians since I already painted some. It's good to hear your approach, mine's a bit different but this is my first army so I'm just kind of trying things out! I have the Bersaglieri starter set and a guastatori squad too.
I love army building in Bolt Action. For some reason it's so much easier in this game for me to make an army where all the units have a "job" in the strategy I want to play with. I always struggle with that in other army games.
Some good discussion points and conclusions drawn. I played Italians for a year on the UK tournament scene and did reasonably well with them. It’s one of my favourite armies to use. They are a great army to learn how to protect units and not throw them away. I would definitely recommend some Folgore for your collection.
Sounds like I'm at least not going totally off-track with the army composition, then!
Welcome to the club! I just painted up 500 points of Bersaglieri for a game last month. Looking forward to following your progress.
Another good thing about playing Italians is that between fighting on different fronts and then switching sides, you can plausibly play just about anybody! ...Unless your local group consists of Japanese and Finns. :)
Looking good chap. I've heard Bolt Action compared to 40k and like you said it's been written by the guys who wrote the rules for 40k. Gamesworkshop didn't want to use this rules system so Alessio decided to use it with Warlord Games instead and I think what they have done is a lot better than whatvGW would of done with it
Loving this kind of video
Very interesting video, I'm tempted to get back into bolt action.
Don't know squat of Bolt Action, but really enjoyed the video 👌
I was never too much interested in Bolt Action but your video here definitely makes me want to keep coming back. A bit of history I didn't know about the Italians, some look at the game and just good background stuff in general.
I'm going to be working on a Slaves to Darkness army here pretty soon for a store league. Punishing myself by painting a dirty white but I'm sure I'll figure something out. May go back through your catalogue for something helpful.
My brother had bought me a Bolt Action little Soviet tank rider squad as gift over Christmas and it's my first introduction to miniature gaming. As miniature games go, your review that it's a good entry game matches my experience as a first time painter. Your videos have been very helpful in guiding my choice of where to go next with it.
This a great new video format
The best thing about Bolt Action is that it's basically a "gateway drug" for historical gaming. it's close enough to 40k that you could try to entice some 40k players to try it, and unlike many historical games it has company support so a game shop can stock the product. Those two alone are huge as far as getting any sort of track in a 40k-centric community.
It's a great game for being historically flavoured, but still familiar to a lot of sci-fi and fantasy gamers. You can stick with it and have fun for as long as you enjoy it, or you can dip your toes and then find something like Chain of Command or NUTS! if that's more your thing. Whatever works! Warlord having their product in stores - a decent range of historical stuff, too - is always good news for options and to entice folks to try something new.
I love my Italians. I've found the +2 morale happens more often than the -2 morale. It's BRUTAL 😈
You realize this video will awaken an extrovert paints from his deep slumber and we should all be afraid...
Bingo! There he is... 😂
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio you've doomed us all lol
I am going through this series again as I paint up my Italian forces. thank you for the inspiration! I have units of Royal Army, Blackshirts, Alpini, Bersaglieri and Carabinieri
Looking really good! Looking forward to any videos on this army
Very interesting ! I'm looking forward to hear more about these troops in the future ...
Love the planning stage of any project. Best part. When it all comes together. Have fun and I will follow these blogs.
As someone just getting into Chain of Command this video is great! Love your WW2 content
Thanks for a very interesting video. It’s great to be able to see the background to your choice of army for a change. I’m looking forward to following your progress.
Great stream.
Really interesting Video, Keep up the Great Work. I Find Your Bolt Action Painting Videos Absolutely Fascinating…
I’m an Older Person Just getting started in the Hobby…
Cheers and ATB
Mike From Scotland
Yay for more Italians! I've got an army of the often-ignored Italians on the Eastern Front.
Great video
I enjoyed the video format, hopefully it works well for you.
Recently added some more Bolt Action and started collecting Flames of War, just for display more than playing (although maybe one day) including the Italian Avanti tank army box. Enjoying my shift away from 40k as GW make supporting them less palatable every day. Hopefully your Italian army gives me inspiration for mine haha, the big boys are fun but I agree, supporting the underdog is too!
Great video and very interesting - good to hear your rational behind your unit choices and what the benefits are. I made a few impulse purchases when they first came out but didn't know what to make first. I'm currently building up some generic german infantry in a mix of temperate & tropic uniform as a Sicily/Italy campaign force.
I'm in the process of building desert Italians too. This had some great info to consider as I build
Your WW2 videos are the best! I am painting a Konflikt '47 list for both Germany and the US. But I really want to do a small late war French Resistance list too. That Wargames Atlantic kit looks fun and characterful. Maybe put a captured panzer in there... Keep it up!
Perfect timing! I just started on my first bolt action army and choose Italy :) can't wait to se more.
Molto bene! Excellent choice. :D
I've done my WW2 desert Italian army and still enjoy adding bits to them, look forwound to watching how you get on 🎲🎲👍 Great videos 👏
Very nice! Looking forward to see more of them! Maybe seeing them in a game?
I love this video and am eager to see how this army progresses. In addition to this, I'd be interested in seeing showcases of your other armies in a similar manner to this video- discussing the build, tactics, history, etc. of your other armies! Your painting tutorials will always be second to none, but I am personally very interested in learning more about the gaming side of your hobby. I'm currently finishing up a DAK army for Bolt Action and I have played one game with it so far. I find that Bolt Action is a lot more fun in the desert without all the big guns and super weapons of the late war. I've always found that simpler early-mid war games of Bolt Action have been much more satisfying to play. I've bee thinking about doing Italians as well to be able to play out some campaigns with my friends who have Desert Rats. I'd like to have a full Perry Italian army, but I also want the convenience of a plastic kit.
Always thrilled to see Italian armies out there! Looking great Troy! Can't wait to see the rest painted up.
Realising the platoons were based on a binary structure instead of the pyramidal structure of most other nations, I'm clearly going to need a second officer so those four squads can properly block up as two platoons... aaand then cram more artillery in! 🤣
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio if you can manage it, you may want to incorporate a small Carabinieri section. You can have a squad of six, take up to three SMGs plus an LMG for more oomf (use the Bersaglieri box for these). Their special rules make them better than the alpini right now.
It has been a while since i played BA but i really liked playing Bersaglieri veterens to pin, and Paracadutisti veterens to move about and take out vulnerable units. You had to play them a little counter intuitively and attack things you wouldn't normally prioritize. That would usually allow me to get the +2 from avanti savoia.
Well done. I share the same motivations (underdogs and drilling down into the history), and it is nice to see an objective approach to the Italians. Based solely on what I'm reading right now about the Italian army, "unmotivated" is a good way to describe the bulk of the troops. Not only were they not ideologically motivated, they were almost always under-supplied, rarely motorized, faced many shortages, and were subject to sketchy overall leadership (this may be a charitable reading). And there is more that can be added to this! If you can get your hands on a dubbed version the film "Italiani brave gente", I recommend a viewing.
Also, those painted Italians look great!
I'll definitely have to try and find that one!
Great video Troy, I was thinking of having a squad of Italians to support my DAK. I use SHQ 20mm figures. Great to listen to your thoughts and your plans for your army. I shall look forward to the next instalment
Having read the book Iron Hulls Iron Hearts by Ian W. Walker a lot of myths about the Italian Army were dispelled and I learned they were quite capable soldiers.
Lovely! I just wanna build 3 squads with the blackshirts box, two for bolt action and one with black uniforms for konflikt 47 lol loving the bolt action content!
Very cool. Just getting into WW2 gaming myself (Bolt Action and Chain of Command). Currently painting 500pts of American troops for my first game of Bolt Action in a couple of weeks. After I get my Americans sorted out, I'll likely collect some Italians (since my gaming buddy has Germans covered), so I find you video very interesting.
I love that you love underdogs! Go Italy!
Love playing Italy in Bolt Action! The TWIN MMGs on a number of tanks I think really offsets the weak armor on those tanks.
Exactly! Your armour isn't supposed to go toe to toe with the latest Shermans and Cromwells, it's meant to make mincemeat of men!
Getting my German forces done for k47 they are closer I got my mause done .
Not played Bolt Action but the 'Avanti Savoia!" rule seems pretty dangerous for your opponent: if they let the Italians gain the upper hand, it could really snowball 😎👍
Yup! It's a tricky one, because fighting against a canny Italian opponent means they're going to feed you targets you don't necessarily want to fight while priorities are kept out of danger, letting them dictate a lot of where the fight is happening. Before you know it, you've been corralled into some real trouble as the hammer drops!
I have a Soviet army for Bolt Action/Konflikt 47 (mainly K47) that's in my backlog. I hope to get to it this year, but right now I'm focusing on Blood Bowl teams.
I really enjoy your painting tutorials, keep up the good work. I have begun dipping my toes into Bolt Action recently, and have chosen Finland. I was wondering if you have done a tutorial on how to paint Finnish infantry?
I've got some converted winter Finns somewhere in the back catalogue somewhere, yeah - for the summer uniform I'd need to print a couple and give them a shot. Pretty sure you could get away with something like Basalt Grey trousers and a lighter grey shirt, if you're looking at Vallejo paints.
Hey mate, are you planning to post more bolt action? I’m interested in getting started and you’re my go to for these things!
👍
Totally agree. Way too many "myths" taken as "truths".
The French army was a dogged infantry. In many ways their ships, planes, and tanks were ahead of time thinking. However they didn't expect the enmass blitzkrieg of tanks. Noone did. The British desperately fled France in the event of Dunkirk, had the French not held out as long as they did, the British army would've been wiped out on the beaches.
The same goes for the Italians. Their actual equipments, ships, and planes were very well made, and their soldiers well trained. The problem was leadership... turns out putting only political figure heads in charge of everything instead of skilled leaders is a bad idea.
I change my mind completely about both after studying them while making my own French and Italian Bolt Action armies :)
Interesting and fun video, any plan of doing the part 2 eventually?
Been building a royal marine force to fight in italy. Italy might be the next army
Amazing, right when I'm starting my Italians as well. Thoughts on potential mixing them with Bersaglieri and/or Paracadutisti as some more veteran squads?
Being inclined towards the weird and lesser known, I'd even be tempted to do Italians vs Greeks or even Albanian irregulars if the models can be found. Lots of mountain scenery too
Great Escape Games do a rather nice range of Greeks for WW2 that I'm eyeing up for later... :D
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio I saw. And I'm thinking there are probably a few "Balkan" and "Caucasian" bandits/guerrillas who could be kitbashed into Albanians. Maybe some WWI cossack types also. Big furry sheepskins, baggy trousers, lots of bandoliers and fezzes seem to be the standard outfit. Those plus some of Askari's SS Bosnian volunteers could make for an interesting mix.
Well with the Italians you can decide which you are on whenever you play
Ooooh look at you ...both Henry Hyde books ...lol .. show off
It's because I'm a man of taste and distinction, can't you tell? 🤣
Thank you for this! I have everything I need to make an Italian force but was looking for motivation to get it together, paint, and put it on the table. I do have one question: how do you feel about colonial cavalry? I was wanting to put a squad on the table but I am hesitant.
They're cool, but I don't really have any experience with cavalry beyond looking at them in the books. 😅 They don't quite fit with what I've got in mind for this force, though I do eventually want to do a very early Italian army featuring the old cork helmets, plenty of colonial troops and some cavalry. But that's on the far-off wishlist side of things!
thanks for the Italian review! I am building early war Balkans theatre army. great tips here for me. what colors do you use on your Alpini, Blackshirts and Bersaglieri uniforms? How do you make them stand out as different at arms length on tabletop from regular infantry?
What would be your suggestion(s) for literature on the topic of WW2 Italians? I'm mostly interested in the North Africa theatre, if that narrows it down enough. Thanks in advance!
I'm going with a smaller army, 8 or 9 order dice at 1000 points, with elite infantry with at grenades
The beard is coming back! On a different note I’ve been slowly building both a Chinese warlord and nationalist army, each representing completely different parts of China (Xinjiang and Yunnan) because we don’t really hear much about China in world war 2
Good call! I've got a bunch of Chinese miniatures that could do with some attention. Would be keen to see how you get on with yours!
I'm building an Italian BA army too. What vehicles are those?
The Semovente 75/something, the M14 tank and the little L6 with the autocannon turret.
Guys at our club use the AK47 rules for BA. They say it gives a better game
Haven't come across the rules, myself.
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio I don't play BA so AK47 might be wrong. It's whatever the alt history WW2 rules that Warlord produce are called
@@torros1839 Konflikt47
That'll be Konflikt '47. It's based on the same rule set as Bolt Action with a couple of additional actions you can take with a unit. It's pretty good by itself, even if you're not playing it with the weird ar stuff attached.
My only issue I have with bolt action is The army I would like to play in a wargame setting is not the army I would want to play for historical reasons. I would probably end up with Canadians to satisfy my historical itch as much as the Soviets would be my choice for wargaming hahaha.
My great uncle lost an arm in an artillery accident when fighting for Canada..
The other reason I can't go for bolt action is I like to have games I can play with my wife and my wife would never go for bolt action because both of her grandfathers served one for England (as he was Scottish) and one for Germany as he was of German heritage living in the east and they forced him to go.
im looking forward to getting an italian army myself, however i completely agree with the majority that "avanti savoia" is a terrible national trait (even though its very flavorful).
it does nothing for the majority of turns in most games, if youre losing it will basicly secure the win for your enemy, and it doesnt really do much if youre already winning anyways.
so in reality it has two downsides and one upside that is hardly significant. id rather have no national trait than this tbh.
I disagree, somewhat, with the categorization of the Italian soldier. He was not unmotivated as much as he was a victim of frustration and the malaise that accompanied that. North Africa was seen by many if not most Italians as part of Italy and so worthy of defending. However, the Italian soldier was encumbered with shortcomings his foe did not have. His officers ranged from highly professional and competent to mediocre WW1 retreads to incompetent political appointees. His units were lacking motorized transport. His gear ranged from very good ( mostly pistols) to barely serviceable. His grenades were under powered, machine-guns still used ammo straps and need to be oiled and thus pulled dirt and dust into the actions jamming them frequently, their antitank weapons were antiquated by the start of the war their tanks were seen mostly as an adjunct to policing hence the vast numbers of tankettes. All thus dragged down morale and fatigued a force that could have been much more effective than it was.