How Do You Know The Bible is True?
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- Опубліковано 12 сер 2016
- How do you know the Bible is true? How do we begin to answer that question? Pastor Jeff Durbin answered this question at the 'God's Not Dead Conference' in San Diego.
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We need Jeff and Joe Rogan to have a debate
brianpaxtonPT YES!
I’m pretty sure that joe Rogan only gets guests that his corporate sponsors desire him to have .
for sure
Jeff would smash joe easily
Still waiting on it
He makes a good point when he touched on subjective and objective morality. It’s probably the biggest factor in my belief of a creator.
Taksman I think you’d get more from watching dr Craig’s videos on morality. His are what I agree with most, so since he’s a PHD in philosophy, you’d glean more info and cogent thoughts from him.
Taksman I mean, our thoughts are shaped by who we read and where the logic follows. My thoughts tend to align with his, as it seems most logical to me in what I’ve experienced so far in life. Maybe as new information is gathered that will change, but for now I agree with him. Good day
so when did you prove gods existance to then use that to follow his morality rules?
Well, since there's no evidence of any objective morality, and even within the Christian worldview there isn't any either, I don't get why you think there's a creator.
Morality is a fluid system changing with the zeitgeist of the time. The Ten Commandments start with thou shalt not kill and right off the bat the supposed author of this is guilty of genocide
As was once said in a debate with Jeff Durbin, the presupper argument is a house of cards.
I felt like his answer deserved a way better response than the one it got...
This question deserved a way better answer than the one Jeff gave. "We could dive into the history and the prophecy and the archeology and all that, and trust me it would all be great and answer the question you actually asked! But instead I'm going to skirt around the subject for 9 minutes and conclude with 'im right because it wouldn't be possible for me to be wrong.'"
@@acebailey2478I think once you understand the real place of God in it all he makes perfect sense, that without the Father nothing makes sense.
@@elijahgoodrich8523 I'm not quite sure what that means. How does one find the "real place of God in it all?"
the truth.. the bible ♥️
I believe the Bible true the word of God because I read it and God open my understanding , thanks God 🙏🙏🙏🙏
I read Harry Potter and that opened my understanding. Praise be to the wizards
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17
@@nic1891 The Bible is the most historically and prophetically accurate ancient collection of books ever written.
When I first came to Christ, this explanation totally made sense. I finally felt like i had an understanding of reality because it was backed by a real God instead of a false one, prideful humans.
I'm completely on board with everything Jeff said in his response.
But the person asking the question likely wanted to know what reason we as Christians believe the Bible
to be true. Based on where he was when speaking and answering questions, most everyone there were
Christians. So why go into the presuppositional apologetic when all he had to do was give out the
evidential and theological reasons we as believers have to see the Bible as true and as our
final authority from God?
Good question. I think he would say because the evidential and theological reasons include presup. And presup (impossibility of the contrary) is the best reason there is.
Jason Lisle argued in his books, presup is "the ultimate proof" of creation, etc.
Also, presup is still the minority position among apologists. So think Jeff is advocating the presup is the way to go with our unbelieving friends.
I think the problem with the argument is it focused mostly on replying to the atheist. But most non believers are not atheists. So there are books written to apply presup to RC, and nominal believers, and cults etc.
So, what he just said for 9 minutes is the Bible is true because it's absurd to not believe in the Bible... I guess for simple minded people that's all the proof you need.
If God does not exist, is Jeff wrong for doing that?
Here is some practical evidence that points to the Bible being true and trustworthy. There have been over one thousand Bible prophecies literally fulfilled, 258 concerning the birth, life, ministry and death of Jesus Christ alone, and over 100 scientific facts in the Bible most of which were found in the book of Genesis (first book of the Bible) written over three thousand years ago, which weren't "discovered" by the scientists of the world until the last 500 years. If you made one of these scientific discoveries, you'd be in textbooks all around the world, and if you made four or five, you'd be in the scientist's hall of fame, along with Isaac Newton, Leonardo Da Vinci, and Albert Einstein. But whoever wrote the Bible made over 100 of these scientific declarations, to go along with the 1,000 fulfilled prophecies. So, since the Bible in literally hundreds of place claims to be written by God, you must come to this conclusion; either God DID write the Bible, or some liar did. What makes more sense; some liar is by far, the greatest prophet ever and by far the greatest scientist ever, or God is indeed the author of the Bible? Just one of these scientific declarations in scripture is found in the very first verse of the Bible; "In the beginning, God created the heavens, and the earth... said 'let there be light.'" Einstein back in about 1920 said, that matter, space, energy, and time itself all had a beginning. That is precisely what God says in Genesis chapter one; "In the beginning (reference to time having a beginning) God created the heavens, (space) and the earth (matter) and said, "Let there be light." (energy)
@@bartycrouch312 Why should he not be wrong for doing that?
@@Dragumix Because if God were not real and the Bible untrue, then there would be no reason to morally or ethically oppose anything. Moral indignation is only possible if one believes that there is a standard of what is right, which no other worldview can account for.
@@thebird483
"Moral indignation is only possible if one believes that there is a standard of what is right, which no other worldview can account for." -
I don't think so. First of all, why couldn't any other god or godess, should they exist, create a moral standard like allegedly the Christian god does? In all of these cases (including the Christian standard) it's still questionable if these moral standards would be objective or subjective. I tend to say that they would be subjective.
Furthermore, also people who don't believe in a god have certain moral standards that they follow. Also these moral standards are probably subjective and not objective. But you don't need deities to explain that they have certain moral standards. It could have been good for survival that societies had certain moral standards and not moral standards where it's totally permissible to kill your neighbor. Those societies would have probably died out very quickly.
Translation: "I've been so deeply indoctrinated that my god glasses have now fused to the lens of my eyes and I have to say stupid stuff like 'if you don't start with god as your reference point, you can't know anything' ".
Also, Viced Rhino says hi: ua-cam.com/video/B6XXiPC5ajY/v-deo.html&ab_channel=VicedRhino
Exactly
The cell theory of Biology is considered to be the backbone of Biology it states that the cell is the smallest fundamental unit of life and that all cells came from pre existing cells. This is most certainly a fact. Nowhere in the natural world has a scientist ever documented the spontaneous generation of one single cell from non living material. It doesn't happen ANYWHERE!!! In spite of this fact there are many highly educated people who have gone to great lengths trying to convince us that all of life on this planet is the result of chemicals spontaneously generating into cells which over the course of billions of years developed into male and female species of extremely complex living organisms...THAT IS ABSURD!!! The evidence for God is all around us. You're not really atheists you're delusional
@@tw2800 Personal incredulity and god of the gaps. Just because we don't understand every aspect of it, does not mean that your god did it. The same thing happened with the rain cycle and lightning, and neurological diseases. If your god created life, the scientific method will point to that fact. But until it does, or, some other explanation is discovered through research, we will use the intellectually honest answer of "we don't know".
But if you have a better hypothesis of how abiogenesis happened, do the experiments, write the papers, and pass peer-review. At that point you can go claim your Nobel prize. I won't be holding my breath, though.
It seems to me that Jeff's argument only counters atheistic claims. What about the Muslim who is starting with his own version of God's revelation? He is also starting with his god.
But you see, this is where the "true" God comes in
His arguments only work vs true atheists and Mormons and Jehovah's witness. He wouldn't debate anyone else cause there isn't anything to debate.
He said that if you don't start with God you have no basis for logic, science, nature, or ethics, but I think what he actually argued is that if you don't start with a dualistic anthropology you don't have those things.
"How do you know the Bible is true?"
"Because if it wasn't, you wouldn't be able to argue the point."
"And how do you know _that_ is true?"
*crickets.
What?
@@AlejandroHernandez-wk9xe Can presups prove that, if the Bible weren't true, it would not be possible to reason?
@@JMUDoc bro go back and watch the video again you missed the whole point the dude was making. Basically if you think we have come from nothing but rocks and everything is just matter and energy then laws of non contradiction don’t matter or are even real since this universe is only the physical. Maybe I put that bad but just watch the vid he says it way better than me
Also quantum mechanics dismantles materialism and points to a god
@@AlejandroHernandez-wk9xe "bro go back and watch the video again you missed the whole point the dude was making. Basically if you think we have come from nothing but rocks and everything is just matter and energy then laws of non contradiction don’t matter or are even real since this universe is only the physical."
I believe that everything is matter in motion _acting in accordance with the laws of logic and physics._
I’m still waiting to hear how to know the Bible is true.
It’s absolutely true because it’s contrary to you and calls you out on and out from your sins. But you deny God’s authority, so you can suppress your responsibility for moral accountability, to continue living a immoral life.
@@Jesus_Saves_66 The Quran is absolutely true because it’s contrary to you and calls you out on and out from your sins. But you deny Allah’s authority, so you can suppress your responsibility for moral accountability, to continue living a life contrary to Quran.
@@mattandkim17 really? Show me the commandments of Allah? Show me where Allah tells you to repent of your sins and call upon him for salvation? Show me where the quran states clearly that he is the god we’ve sinned against and the god who holds us accountable? Also, I would love to see what solution he has for sins and how he can help us overcome them 😊
@@Jesus_Saves_66 show me how it makes the Bible true by refuting Quran.
@@mattandkim17 please answer my questions - I’m waiting :) You brought the Quran into the conversation by trying to claim it as a truth source. So I’m waiting to see where it states what you have stated in your previous comment…
“The Bible is a reliable collection of historical documents written down by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses. They report to us supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophesies and claim that their writings are divine rather than human in origin.” -Voddie Baucham
Lol sounds good 2 me lol
This is a MUCH better argument than Jeff’s.
Love Voddie’s teachings
I loved that video by Voddie!!
Yeeeeaaahhhh♥️♥️
Two problems with this: circular reasoning and the fact that any other religion can say the same thing about their own 'bible'.
Only God can give value to human life or anything, because humans we cannot only for a moment, but God‘s value for us and appreciation for ourselves is forever. I swear he is God and his love is endless.
Really irreducible complexity? This has long been debunked and no language is in DNA or RNA. This is a fools approach to the subject.
Is your profile pic the Parisian Catacombs? Mine is and it's similar
@@nathanielgrey4091 Nope, mine is from a classical painting by Rephael, Not sure wich one now...
@@mr.pontifex7595 Pyramid of Skulls by Cezanne.
What do you mean by this?
2:11 _"Jesus did rise from the dead that's an historical fact"_ Nope, that's your assumption.
Based upon the definition of a historical fact, then Yes, Jeff is correct.
@@PilgrimNinja No, because it hasn't happened.
@@PilgrimNinja please provide the evidence to back this BS up
The cell theory of Biology is considered to be the backbone of Biology it states that the cell is the smallest fundamental unit of life and that all cells came from pre existing cells. This is most certainly a fact. Nowhere in the natural world has a scientist ever documented the spontaneous generation of one single cell from non living material. It doesn't happen ANYWHERE!!! In spite of this fact there are many highly educated people who have gone to great lengths trying to convince us that all of life on this planet is the result of chemicals spontaneously generating into cells which over the course of billions of years developed into male and female species of extremely complex living organisms...THAT IS ABSURD!!! The evidence for God is all around us. You're not really atheists you're delusional
@@tw2800 There is only one group that's delusuonal: christians and other religious people. You're talking about abiogenesis. Although just a hypothesis, it has more validity than "god did it." There is no evidence your god actually exists.
The question I’ve always had is if the translation is as true as the original text. And if the Hebrew translation is easier to get the truth out of the text. Because the english language is the hardest language. And so many different words means so many different things.
Koine Greek original documents are the most accurate documents we have. I'd start there and then translate from there. Honestly, I just use NIV, ESV, and NKJV for studying different interpretation. I sincerely hope this helps you and God bless you!!
Pitiful. Thank you for the new atheists.
Ikr
Keep appealing to the ego...youll never lose.
rather than always explaining why their worldview is inconsistent you should explain why yours is consistent then show how theirs doesn't line up. "because the Bible says so and you don't believe the Bible" is all I got out of this
Actually, ATheism is the LACK of a world view. All that you identify with "ATheism, a world view" is the possible aftermath !!!OF!!! ATheism. For a very likely example, Saecular-Humanism. Babees are born with a brain, which is yet to develop the capability of fabricating Theism let alone any other world view - they are the purest thinkable example of ATheists. I have experienced a lot of anger from Theists, by JUST stating the obvious. Did you know, that some of them tried to ridicule me by saying "if babees are ATheist, then so are stones and dogs" but they are actually totally ignorant about the greek root of the word: A Theist is a ***person*** and an ATheist is a ***person*** too, and the "A" is on this occasion just an alpha privativum, which indicates "without". Kindest regards from GERMANY!
Kason Kedersha what’s wrong with inconsistencies in your worldview?
Looks like you weren’t paying attention.
I sincerely sought out if Christianity is true. And this is a summary of the best arguments I have ever hard. And this is why I'm an atheist when it comes to Christianity.
I pray that God would reveal himself to you then
How do I distinguish between God revealing himself to me and just some random emotional experience?
@@emileshlemon4550 Ground it upon revelation. That's how.
This guy reminds me of a Seth Andrews quote. "Christianity made me talk like an idiot".
So basically, the argument is "I presuppose I'm right, so that makes you wrong, which makes me right". What worries me is that they let you lot sit on a jury in a murder case.
crisofer954 the witness was an atheist so cannot know if the suspected committed the crime or cause can't have truth without God, case dismissed pending rear naked choke
@@dallassmith8854 Why can't we have truth without God?
in other words.. this video should really be titled "How you know atheism is inconsistent" because I heard nothing about why the Bible is true in this video
The volume button can generally be found on the keyboard or the side of your phone. :)
+Apologia Studios you can take my evaluation seriously or you can mock me
+Kason Kedersha I think Jeff's argument presents more of an argument for generic theism than biblical authority. This is just a starting point, which he states. The historical accuracy of the new testament documents present, at least to me, the most compelling physical evidence of the truth of the bible. Is that what you're asking? If you look at biblical scholars and historians such as Gary Habermas, Michael Licona, NT Wright, and Paul Maier, all will point to the historical accuracy of the NT documents and the truth of the resurrection. Even most secular scholars will agree of the historical accuracy of the gospels being ancient biographies, rather than legend.
If the NT is true, you get the OT as Jesus references it as authoritative. This is, of course, arguing from an evodentialist perspective. Jeff is a presuppositionalist.
+zymbo The question of if you can know the Bible is true was not answered in this video. I know the Bible is true. But I was interested in hearing Jeff's perspective of this question and was unimpressed. I'm fine that he is a pre suppositionalist but he didn't answer the question from his worldview. He only explained the need for some kind of standard for truth, which he calls "God". All this does is show gaps in the atheistic worldview. This doesn't answer the question of if the Bible is true at all.
What is the "ATheistic world view"?
Why are there so many apologists? When I feel hungry, I don't need to be convinced of it. I also can't recall a time when I've grabbed some water and sat and pondered "Will this water quench my thirst?"
Because sinners suppress the truth in unrighteousness. People know God exists, but they love their sins more so that they come up with all these crazy theories just to suppress their conscience and deceive themselves into thinking that God will not hold them accountable for their sins against Him and against His creation. So God in His mercy has raised up these apologists and people who speak the truth so that unbelievers will be called to repentance and believe in Jesus Christ as the One who died for the sin of the world so that mankind may be reconciled to God.
silly question, but does anyone know here what bible past Jeff is using? Trying to figure out what that is.
Question: How do you know that Truth is True?
Answer: Because False is False.
I'm confused
Jaylor 116
3:04
exactly.
They're tautologies.
How do you know that accurate statements about the actual state of affairs are accurate statements about the actual state of affairs?
Because inaccurate statements about the actual state of affairs are not accurate statements about the actual state of affairs.
I don't agree with the answer though.
Does absolute truth exist? If time + matter + chance has produced your brain, then truth as an absolute category no longer exists, because truth by nature is absolute. Time is changing, matter is changing, chance is changing. You never have them staying the same, so truth as an absolute category no longer exists, and if this is correct, then how do you know it is true that time + matter + chance has produced your brain? How do you know anything is true? What's your basis for ethics, the universal laws of logic, induction, and the uniformity in nature? I'll wait...
This reminds me of boarding school in Germany in the 60’s. We were taught that we started out as amoebae’s crawling out of puddles. Nice! I’d rather have God’s version thank you. God bless you guys.
Why would you rather have God's version? I'm curious.
I'd rather just know the truth. The amoeba issue doesn't bother me. In fact, it's even more awesome than a god doing anything.
So let’s go with the more romanticized story.
That sounds logical.
Wouldn't you just rather know the truth instead of living in blissful ignorance?
@@HuxtableK if your "consciousness" is just some chemicals fizzing, then "you" don't even exist. even if you are something like a soul and not just your body, if you cease to exist at any point, you might as well never have existed in the first place (from your own perspective). and if everyone in existence will eventually cease to exist, then nothing exists.
nothing can exist without eternity.
the original is God and has no beginning and no end.
if God has a beginning, then where did he come from? if God has an end, then he needs a beginning.
God is eternal, God created us. we have a beginning, but God can take away our end and grant us eternal life.
@@supersilverhazeroker Our consciousness appears to just be a product of the brain. Damage the brain, or change the chemical makeup of the brain, and you change your personality pretty heavily. Take away the brain, no more You. No soul.
Sure, once I am gone, I'm gone forever. Just like with literally everyone else, just like with every individual life to have ever lived on the planet, human or otherwise.
Everyone who ever lives will eventually cease to exist. Yes. Life is temporal. But no, it's not that nothing exists. Not sure where you got that from.
"Nothing can exist without eternity" - Where did you get that?
Your god has no beginning and no end because he isn't real. Imaginary beings have no actual traits in reality.
I came here to see why Christians believe in the bible and i found this....honestly i thought I'll get better than that
Can anyone link me anything saying that gas or "fizz" is involved in neurochemistry? That sounds really interesting! I can't believe I never learned that in any of my biology classes up to the 300 level
I guess you weren't paying attention the day they did the "brain fizz" lecture!
You know he doesn't mean literal fizzing like a soda. Why not come up with an actual substantive argument instead?
The cell theory of Biology is considered to be the backbone of Biology it states that the cell is the smallest fundamental unit of life and that all cells came from pre existing cells. This is most certainly a fact. Nowhere in the natural world has a scientist ever documented the spontaneous generation of one single cell from non living material. It doesn't happen ANYWHERE!!! In spite of this fact there are many highly educated people who have gone to great lengths trying to convince us that all of life on this planet is the result of chemicals spontaneously generating into cells which over the course of billions of years developed into male and female species of extremely complex living organisms...THAT IS ABSURD!!! The evidence for God is all around us. You're not really atheists you're delusional
@@MisterItchy The cell theory of Biology is considered to be the backbone of Biology it states that the cell is the smallest fundamental unit of life and that all cells came from pre existing cells. This is most certainly a fact. Nowhere in the natural world has a scientist ever documented the spontaneous generation of one single cell from non living material. It doesn't happen ANYWHERE!!! In spite of this fact there are many highly educated people who have gone to great lengths trying to convince us that all of life on this planet is the result of chemicals spontaneously generating into cells which over the course of billions of years developed into male and female species of extremely complex living organisms...THAT IS ABSURD!!! The evidence for God is all around us. You're not really atheists you're delusional
Evidence is an uncounted noun. Every time you say "evidences" you make yourself look ignorant (at best).
I like many of Pastor Jeff's videos...HOWEVER... NO atheist would be convinced by any of what he just said as an answer to "How do you know the Bible is true." I'm a Christian and I don't even think those were good answers.
Yes, all he's doing is moving the goalposts. "God is the source of all truth and logic" is just an assertion. It has no more validity than asserting _the complete opposite_ - 'What we call truth and logic are simply the most reliable methods our somewhat evolved brains deploy to deal with reality.'
But what CAN be said with absolute confidence is that God will not intervene in any meaningful today, tomorrow, or the next day. I can make that prediction based on reality, they can only respond with _"Well, God did all the impressive stuff thousands of years ago.."_ when there was no scientific means to analyze, record or preserve these supernatural interventions. How convenient.
@@BScott7220 well friend you seem to be forgetting one thing. In Christ all things hold together, the whole universe including you is held by Him. Colossians 1:17. You are dust. Why because God made Adam out of dust and God breathed the breath of life in his nostrils and Adam became a living soul. And you came from the loins of Adam like the rest of human race. Genesis 2:7. Don't you know the only reason you are able to take your next breath is only because God allows you to. He holds our soul in life the Scripture says. Psalms 66:9. In Him we live we move we have our being. Read that few times let it sink in. Acts 17:28. People that do not believe in God are without excuse, because they suppress the truth in wickedness, and because that which is known about God is evident within them, for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Romans 1:18-21. You should read V22-32also. Sinners do not want to believe in God, because they love their sins. And by the way, if God would set His heart on it, If He would gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath, All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust. Job. 34:14-15. FYI, God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. You want evidence that He is active today. Well He is judging America and many other western nations, just read Romans 1:18-32, and you will know He is not just the God of the past, and His judgment is just going to intensify day by day until He makes all His enemies which are all unbelievers as His footstool put under His foot. Hebrews 10:13. I hope you have bowed your knee to Him as your Lord and Savior, if not I encourage you do it now, otherwise you are going to die and after that judgment. Hebrews 9:27.
@@Jeremiah17910 so you combat the assertion thing by listing a paragraph of more assertions and outright lies - good job. i have NEVER beleived in a god so"Sinners do not want to believe in God, because they love their sins" is MEANINGLESS - sin doesnt exist - it is a method to control you. I dont love sin - because sin DOESNT EXIST
This presuppositional approach to apologetics won't convince someone who doesn't already accept that a god exists, and it can't work against other religions because it's not specific about the nature of gods.
Well, judging by the comments people at least seem to agree on one thing: those were all awful, just _awful_ arguments for the truthfulness of the bible.
The cell theory of Biology is considered to be the backbone of Biology it states that the cell is the smallest fundamental unit of life and that all cells came from pre existing cells. This is most certainly a fact. Nowhere in the natural world has a scientist ever documented the spontaneous generation of one single cell from non living material. It doesn't happen ANYWHERE!!! In spite of this fact there are many highly educated people who have gone to great lengths trying to convince us that all of life on this planet is the result of chemicals spontaneously generating into cells which over the course of billions of years developed into male and female species of extremely complex living organisms...THAT IS ABSURD!!! The evidence for God is all around us. You're not really atheists you're delusional
@@tw2800 So if I understand your argument correctly, it is as such:
"If we don't currently know the answer to how life first developed, that means that the answer is by default the specific god that I happen to believe in".
Sigh.
It was a flaccid argument back when people who didn't understand weather systems argued that the weather, good or bad, was due to the gods direct action and their moods.
It was a flaccid argument back when people who didn't understand the existence of germs argued that illnesses had to be caused by evil spirits, devils and curses.
It was a flaccid argument back when people who didn't understand sexual reproduction argued that the gods were the ones 'blessing' them by magically inserting children into the bodies of women.
Yet, here we are, going around that same old tired track, the same story told over and over, of someone pointing to a gap in human knowledge and trying to flaccidly shoe-horn their god into that space.
But that's fine.
I'm sure as we learn yet more about abiogenesis and fill in those gaps, those determined to believe will find another of the ever-shrinking gaps in human knowledge to try to cram their god in next with empty, puerile notions, based on vaguely gesturing to things around them and shouting 'it's god!'.
Much like apocalyptic preachers who keep 'getting the day of judgement wrong' and trying for yet another date going _'This_ time it's for real!' you are yet another person jumping on the latest gap of knowledge going 'Ah hah, _this_ time, this is the one! _This_ is the question that can _only_ be answered with supernatural intervention! _This_ time we've got it!'
I wonder what gap you'll jump to next once we fill this one, or if you'll ever get over this silly game.
Explain how they are awful.
How do you know that George Washington was our first president?
@@that39warguy6 They are not logical. He presupposes that beings being the result of evolution can't think rationally. And he completely pretends that there are just to possibilities: either the Christian god exists or no god exists at all. But maybe the Christian god doesn't exist, but a different god or different gods.
Ok, you try to apologize this away ...
Joshua asked the loving gawd to keep the sun in the sky so he can have a little more time to slay and kill and murder ... and gawd did - and as it is written in that same chapter, first and ONLY time gawd ever reacted to a prayer. Because it was for his favorite past time? Watching people get killed in his name?
Anyhow, to do that, gawd would need to stop the rotation of the planet, like instantly.
How did anything survive being thrown into brick wals or mountains with several hundred miles per hour?
How did that which did survive live through the instant reacceleration?
And if your answer is "gawd protectet all of the earth" ... really? The same guy that wanted some particular people dead? The same gawd who couldn't deal with how much he messed up, so his only sollution was to drown everybody and tell a guy to build a bronze age Titanic that by definition wouldn't work?
So no, the buybull is not true, never was, never will be.
you seem to know much. are you a god?
This is essentially the
ontological argument for the existence of a book that is the word of God. This argument could point you to the Bible, the Koran, or some other sacred book. You need more than this to get to the truth of the Bible specifically.
I understand and agree that there are many inconsistencies with the atheist’s search for truth and feel that God is the only way to have a basis of objective truth, but again this only gets you to a god and a sacred text not the God of the Bible.
Exactly
For the people saying he didn't answer the question...he literally said "I know the Bible is true because of the impossibility of the contrary". He then went on to explain that position.
Hey, brother Jeff! 🥰
This is circular, awkward, new, and unbiblical
The cell theory of Biology is considered to be the backbone of Biology it states that the cell is the smallest fundamental unit of life and that all cells came from pre existing cells. This is most certainly a fact. Nowhere in the natural world has a scientist ever documented the spontaneous generation of one single cell from non living material. It doesn't happen ANYWHERE!!! In spite of this fact there are many highly educated people who have gone to great lengths trying to convince us that all of life on this planet is the result of chemicals spontaneously generating into cells which over the course of billions of years developed into male and female species of extremely complex living organisms...THAT IS ABSURD!!! The evidence for God is all around us. You're not really atheists you're delusional
what about evidence ?
Seems that you didn’t even search for it and just ask, “what about the evidence”
It’s like a dude who never seen grass asking for evidence of grass being green yet they don’t go outside to look. 🤦♂️
Michael Kantanka it’s accurate
This is the pressupositional argument. Which is, no matter if they admit or not evidence. There's plenty of evidence for the bible.
@@tsapp2831 , what is the contemporary eyewitness outside the bible . That claims jesus rose from the dead ?
@@charlesboles9307 Flavius Josephus
• Cornelius Tacitus
• Suetonious
• The Jewish Talmud
Basically carrying on the teachings of the late Van till & late Greg Bahnsen
“For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
Romans 1:17
I understand the argument and I agree. But an unbeliever can respond: well why do you immediately jump towards the God of the Bible and not the gods of other religions. This seems to me to be a great argument for intelligent design. How could I maintain the fact that only the Bible can account for knowledge and intelligence vs the multitude of religions out there?
As a Christian, I believe that what Jeff said is true, but it's an incomplete answer. Like you, I don't think his answer will satisfy anyone BUT believers. Atheists will likely accuse him of circular reasoning and though, like you said, his answer may argue for intelligent design, they'll want to know which "intelligence" we're talking about here.
It's a good start, but it needs to go MUCH further. It's not a question that can be answered in a nine-minute video. Perhaps there's more.
+ThingsAreToughAllOver This was a Q and A session. Hours could be spent a have been spent on a fuller explication. We have hours of Jeff's talks on this channel as well as days worth of discussion on Apologiaradio.com. ;)
You might start by comparing the religions. It doesn't necessarily require an exhaustive study, just the basic foundations. For example, some of the things that you will find in religions are pantheistic beliefs which say that God inhabits every object in the world and thus everything is equally valuable. I once heard a Christian challenge a pantheist on this belief by asking if a piece of grass was just as valuable as her own child? The pantheist began to stutter and stumble over her own words at this point. Another thing that you will find in some religions is the claim that truth is relative - that people have their own individual truths. You might ask a person of such religious belief if child rape could ever be okay according to personal truth. If the answer is no, they are appealing to an objective moral truth that must come from an objective moral source. In Islam, you may ask the Muslim who their Koran says Jesus is. They will say a prophet. You may ask them why Jesus in the Koran is so much greater and more miraculous than prophet Muhammad, yet Muhammad gets worshipped. Then tell them what the bible says of Jesus. Basically, compare the religious claims against that of the bible and see which is more logical.
Then you can point to things like fulfilled prophecy in the bible that has been verified historically.
God doesn't require we know ALL of that stuff to be good Christian witnesses, but those are good places to go.
At the end of it all, you'd point to the logical difference separating the Christian God from all others: All other religions require good works to outweigh past sins - to work one's way to paradise. But in a manmade court of law, can you be let go from your murder or rape charge if you feed enough poor people? If yes, that wouldn't be justice. Other religions think you can just work the sin off. God, knowing that such a thing wouldn't be fair justice took the fair punishment for everybody as our substitute on the cross. The Christian God is the only one that offers such an objective and impartial standard of crime, punishment and pardon.
+Apologia Studios Shabbat Shalom and thanks for doing the work of the ministry. There is so much evidence of scripture. Such as giants and the enclosed non globe earth. Also, historical information matches scripture. Yes, the Scripture is self authoritative because absolute truth is self authoritative. Otherwise, we can't know anything. Colossians 1:16-17, John 14:6, 8:32. Deuteronomy 13:1-5.
My feeling exactly.
This guy Durbin is dis-ingenuous . He just jumps from a great
pre-sup point to the God of the Bible.
The answer to the whole conundrum is an Open Panentheistic Cosmic Mind-God. Not a god that suggests that everything in the KJV is absolutely correct.
The only thing this video proves is there is still one person on Earth who still speaks Babel.
The cell theory of Biology is considered to be the backbone of Biology it states that the cell is the smallest fundamental unit of life and that all cells came from pre existing cells. This is most certainly a fact. Nowhere in the natural world has a scientist ever documented the spontaneous generation of one single cell from non living material. It doesn't happen ANYWHERE!!! In spite of this fact there are many highly educated people who have gone to great lengths trying to convince us that all of life on this planet is the result of chemicals spontaneously generating into cells which over the course of billions of years developed into male and female species of extremely complex living organisms...THAT IS ABSURD!!! The evidence for God is all around us. You're not really atheists you're delusional
@@tw2800 You are putting forth the good ol' "god of the gaps," which does not provide evidence of the existence a sentient, devine being. When we just don't know, it's OK to say we just don't know. My not knowing how Easter eggs ended up in the Easter basket is not proof of the existence of the Easter Bunny. 🐇
Then why watch it
IS THAT A BEER?
That was amazing!
Did he even answer the question? He pretty much taught an entire audience how to dodge a question.
He did, the Bible is true, because it's impossible to know if anything is true without God, it's the impossibility of the contrary argument, so you wouldn't know if it's true as an atheist. Revelational epistemology.
@@palerity6320
Are you presupposing there is a god to make that argument? And, are you also assuming this god would be _your_ god?
Also, it's likely, an honest _athiest_ (athiesm isn't about anything other than the lack of belief in a god or gods) would say they don't have absolute certainty that it's false, but they are not convinced it's true.
@@slivyo
Right, agnostic athiest; I just say atheist as short hand because I don't assume most are gnostic when it comes to atheism.
I assume by, "To athiest, there's no reason for anything," that you are suggesting an atheist lacks an absolute reason for anything such as knowing something good from bad because it is predetermined and not up for debate. In the thiest case, this is because a god decides what's good and bad, and they are eternal (in most cases... all cases... I don't really know).
I would say you are not far off, and if you add the belief in evolution, we only care because it aided in survival and being unaware of the origin makes it seem like a common decency sort of thing, though if you believe in a god, chances are you have disagreements or fully disagree with the theory of evolution.
I can only work with what I have (assumptions, I know) , which seems to start with my mind, and I say that knowing it is a debated subject. It is not intuitive that it is connected to my body, though I at least feel in control of my body except for when I'm tired (never got drunk or did drugs).
Now, due to my limited perspective and with the unforgettable thought that my _life_ will end and my senses as well as my mind will be destroyed or fall apart, I happen to care what happens to me, even if it equals zero or less in the end.
And, whether it is from my brain or because of how species evolved, I have something humans call empathy. Whether I like it or not, I feel an urge to understand a person and relate to them, happy, sad, angry, etc.
You don't have to honor anything that lead equaled the peow who are _alive_ being here today, but for good reason or not, there are people who may try to stop you from behaving or acting in certain ways. I only question something if it feels wrong, I may copy what my friends do, but if it comes to jumping off a bridge, my fear of heights may overcome any peer pressure to do as they do in that instance.
I'd say that if you developed feelings that created division, and people who wanted to bring us together still existed, you would look for ways to challenge them, whether through debate, activism, or maybe even violence.
It seems that when you can treat other people as different, you don't see yourself in them and it makes their feelings irrelevant to a small or high degree.
Me saying good or bad is relative to what my goals are, again, whether they are for a _real_ reason or not.
Of course they seem man-made, I don't know where else they would've come from, but that's another assumption.
I don't think we have rights, just the feeling that we should have them, and in the past and even today, people fight in all sorts of ways to maintain and gain even more rights while other try to strip those rights away as well and create more restrictions on rights.
They likely serve some purpose, though, it may just be to achieve your goal no matter how vague or specific.
Again, I can't for you are right or wrong for certain, as I appear limited in my knowledge if I have any, and if we disagreed, I would have to decide whether I was wrong, you were wrong, or that we had different goals in mind.
You appear right, in the end, if we do what you want or we do what I want, it may not really matter (in the end).
You appear to be right again, reason appears to give meaning, even if it is something like working just to feed yourself, what kind of life might that be...
I ask the same question, "Why, and how?"
"Can I say I know anything if I do not know everything?"
It is a big question, and as much as I'd like to know, I may never find out.
As much as that seems meaningless, I enjoy doing things that feel meaningful to me.
I like to watch and read about things I'm interested in, politics and religion being two things I am interested in, and... at this moment in time I do not believe in a god; it doesn't appear to match with what I think I know about everything.
@@slivyo
I understand, and I would hope I did not come off as rude.
Disagree or not, I am not here seeking enemies, only conversation on what I understand and the person replying understands.
I wanted to fully express how I operate philosophically when dealing with the idea of meaning in life as well as how I act regardless of whether or not I have absolute truth.
Anything I said was in reply to your questions sprinkled throughout what you wrote in your comment.
Now, regardless of how everything came to be, I am atheistic in my beliefs on god as the idea of a god does not appear to match with the reality that I understand.
I am not ruling a god out, but I won't accept just anything, though I figure anything that would convince me would be out of my control as I do not choose what makes sense, but I do seek answers to questions I have that are unanswered or that I forgot the answer to.
Even if I believed a being created everything, in the deistic or theistic sense, I would not be able to consider the Bible as a reliable source of information.
Assuming that's the god that most people I go back and forth with believe in either agnostically or gnostically, it appears in our observation of the planet, using the remnants of the past, there are stories in the Bible that do not all line up.
I imagine if the new testament authors had written the old testament, they would have changed the character of God to be less war-like, and possibly more just and/or merciful as well as untempted.
@@slivyo
Are you even trying to meet me where I am at?
The bible has so many contradictions, there is no reason to believe it is true.
That’s hilarious bc there’s been tons of books written and tons of historical and scientific studies done that add to the proof of the Bible being accurate and historically correct. And Everytime they find relics and historical artifacts that line up with what the Bible says. Like the Dead Sea scrolls etc. the only questions have been did the miraculous happen bc you really can’t prove that. But that have proven that the Bible has not been changed during translations. That Jesus and many others were real people and records of their lives have backed it up.
Have you ever looked into it bc it’s not that hard to find the large amount of evidence that supports the Bible?
There’s also the list of things the Bible stated as true about the world and space etc that was in contradiction to science but ended up being true. Such as: the Bible said the world was round and people thought it was flat until proven round thousands of years after the Bible was written. The Bible talks about how the sea floor looks and functions like and science said otherwise until it was proven to be as the Bible said when tech caught up. Same with the stars and other things.
The sure fact that something that people believe as man made fairy tale from over two thousand years ago is still relevant to today’s culture and transforms lives. Like the countless stories of addicts who couldn’t ever get clean but then did after years through the message of the gospel. Or people that have struggled with mental health issues and needed medication etc who utilized the Bible and it’s message to be freed feom depression and anxiety and never need psych medication again etc.
You can question the validity of the miraculous claims but historically it has been far proven accurate. And although the message has been hijacked and used in evil ways it has healed and transformed millions of lives for the better. Which makes no sense if it is fake and made up fairy tale ya know.
@@alaskayoung3413 Can you give me links to these historic and scientific studies? I would like to read them but they cannot be from christian sites, they must be neutral or non-bias sites.
Why are there so many different versions of the bible? There is the KJV, NKJV, NASB and the RDV to name a few, there are more. Surely there should only be one version.
What records of jesus are there, external to the bible?
When I younger, I was doing a bible study on the flood story. I went to the science section at the library to find books about it but couldn't find anything there. So I asked the librarian why I couldn't find the books in that section. She told me that I wouldn't find anything about the flood story in that section and that I should look in the religion section. The point I am trying to make here is that science does not support the flood story and that is one of the important stories in the bible.
The Greeks had established that the Earth was a globe around 3bc, not thousands of years after the bible was written, as you claim. Also just think how you worded your statement. I think you meant to say hundreds of years. I agree that the bible says the world round, it doesn't say it's a globe. It is open to speculation what it says about the shape of the Earth. There are people who believe the Earth is flat because of bible scripture.
Science esimates the age of our universe to be around 13.8 billion years old and not 6 thiousands as it would be, if the bible is true.
People are slowly realising that the bible is not the be all and end all, that is why, in western society, religion, especially christianity, is in decline.
Studies done by people that already believe it is infallible amd don't have contradictions can simply be ignored.
When a regular person like me can see that killing an innocent child specifically in place of his father while also saying that a child won't be punished for the sin of the father and that only the sinner will be put to death for the sin committed is contradictory, it's pretty freaking obvious.
It would take heavy indoctrination to think there are no contradictions.
@@user-hp1uj8nz5s what specifically are you referencing when you say a fathers son being killed etc? Are you talking about Abraham and stuff or something else.
Lots of the Old Testament stuff appears to be real odd and hard to understand but when you study it in depth and add the context of the time and the references it’s speaking about it paints a better picture.
The studies are not all done by people who think it’s infallible. There’s plenty some by people who went into studying it to disprove it and changed their minds once they studied all the evidence. There’s world leaders scientist and people with multiple phds that argue for their belief in the Bible etc.
it’s not just uneducated southern people…
Nope. not one.
This video is rich with logical fallacies.
tglu87 name one
tglu87 actually what Jeff is saying is 100% spot on we are too stupid to understand what truth is
@@YTTraveler777 funny how people hurl general comments around like that and have no actual example.
This is a good video. Thanks. However should we not add at the beginning of the response what the Bible is?
How Do you know The Bible is true?
Well the bible says everyone believes, so atheists in reality are not atheists because they believe but just want to rebel, according to the bible.
Me... Ok thank you for confirming the bible is not true. Because I know myself, I know I do not believe. No matter how much you say I believe, I know my thoughts better than anything, and my thoughts are the one thing I can be fully certain. And I know I do not believe. In fact, all my life I have really wanted to beleive, because my family and everyone I grew up with, was a believer. I tried really really hard to believe but couldn't. I have always been told, even today, by believers how nice of a person I usually am. I always try and be the best version of myself and help others. So I am not disbelieving because I want to rebel or sin. I simply just can't believe.
I have no problem with you believing, in fact I am not here to tell you what to believe. But I do have a problem when people assume I disbelief simply because I want to rebel, be my own God, or sin. None of them are true, and if you knew me you would know that.
It is like if I were to say, " All believers do not actually believe, they all know there is no God, they are just afraid of their own mortality". Now I would never say such a thing unwarranted, nor I believe it. But I am simply saying what apologists are saying about atheist but if it what flipped.
You're right. But, of course, he has no interest in convincing atheists. This whole video is clearly just designed to make existing Christians feel good. To anyone who's an atheist, this is so stupid - and so _obviously_ wrong - that, if anything, it would make me _less_ likely to believe in his god than I was already.
But I suppose that his audience loves stuff like this. At least, _some_ of them. And I suppose that's all that matters to him.
@farrex0 I’m curious. What do you mean by wanting to believe?
G’day mate, you should read Romans. The Apostle Paul says:
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse (Romans 1:18-20 ESV).”
I believe you when you proclaim you don’t believe in God, I was there with you just over a year ago. But that’s because you suppress the truth you know in unrighteousness, in other words… your sinful heart deceives itself in rebellion against God.
We are all without excuse because we know God, such truth is demonstrated in the way the unbeliever lives. Apart from God’s revelation. You cannot justify ethics, logical reasoning and much more. Neither can you tell me why you live the way you do, with the bottom line of your world view being we are objectively purposeless and evolved from bacteria that formed on a rock in space that came from nothing.
We all suffer from the deception of our hearts in rebellion to God, but your conscience testifies to His law. You are without excuse, and I want you to repent and believe in Christ so that your sins are covered by God.
I wouldn’t spend the time engaging you if I didn’t 💛.
@@josephkusabs46 I actively looked for God for more than twenty years tho. My whole life revolved around it. Yet I never truly believed no matter how hard I tried to. I was 100% convinced it was the life I wanted to live. My whole life I felt guilt, like actual crippling guilt, because no matter how hard I tried I couldn't really experience God nor be free of doubt. I have never, in my entire 29 years of life experienced even for a day, what that bible quote says. I talked with every person I could on every topic I had doubt, I asked for everyone to pray for me so I could have faith. I felt broken the entire time.
But when I finally decided to face my natural skepticism and look at it critically, I realized I simply couldn't. And when i decided to accept I simply didn't believe it, it was the most liberating feeling I have ever felt. It was like taking a huge weight off my shoulders.
Now I have never been happier, and I am even a way better person that i was when i was a Christian.
I do not sin, and try to help everyone as much as I can. I decided to be the best person I can be, because if there is no heaven, then it is our responsibility to bring heaven down to Earth. To help as many people we can, not because of sellfish desires such as going to heaven, but because it is the right thing to do.
I simply do not believe, and there is absolutely nothing unrighteous about it. Believe is in no shape, way or form a moral act.
Now I have no problem with people believing, I just simply can't live with cognitive dissonance. I just want people to be the best version of themselves, and to be honest with themselves. If you look into it and decide it is the truth, all the power to you. I simply couldn't, after more than twenty years.
I will try and be the best person I can be, and if I die and turns out there is a God and said God decides I shall go to heaven or hell based on moral judgement, I will accept said judgement. But if said God instead of judging my morality, decides I shall go to hell for not worshipping him, then that is no God worthy of any worship.
@@farrex0 , when you claim it is our responsibility to bring heaven down to Earth and to not give in to our naturally selfish impulses because it is the right thing to do - I can’t help but think… by what standard? How do you know?
According to your worldview, their is no ultimate, we are just the random products of a pitiless and indifferent universe that couldn’t keep us in mind.
In John 1 the apostle says:
“If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:8-9).”
You are deceiving yourself, the cognitive dissonance is rampant. But you have hope because Jesus can cleanse us from sin which we all harbour. The knowledge of God in you is clear to see. It’s not about experiencing God, you have a trust problem my friend.
What can you tell me about the Old Testament 🙂?
3:55 Aaaaarrgh! How many times does it need to be said? Theists, please. Say it with me: Evolution is *NOT* about origins. The question of origins is something we're trying to discover, but there's not conclusive evidence about how life originated. Evolution is about the spread of life on planet earth, so stop referring to evolution as if it's an origin theory. Regarding the general reference to presupposition argument in this clip, let's just consider this. I ask a question which seems relevant. You respond "You can't even ask that." What has been advanced? Who has learned? What has been illuminated? Here's what should happen when one is asked a question. One either : 1) Provides a hypothetical response with facts/observations/data which supports the hypothesis, or 2) one says "I don't know". Presup is only useful for ending discussion. The revelation which theists claim to understand as truth *still* enters their consciousness by the same media as any other sensation. If theists are as fallible as the Bible claims them to be, how could they have such assurance that they have understood God's revelation? Not to mention the revelation itself is not subject to meaningful standards of affirmation or falsification.....
drumrnva Thanks for pointing out a nit picky factoid irrelevant to the argument! It shows me how magnificent your intelligence is and how masterfully you dance....around central issues.
Thanks for pointing out the important fact that evolution =/= abiogenesis. Though it is excellent when religious apologists conflate the two as it clearly exposes they are stupid and ignorant of science...or deliberatly lying for jesus. Either way they debunk their own argument and expose the fact that their mythology is devoid of truth, facts and logic.
To be clear, Jeff is using the transcendental argument here, which he often uses. It's the most fundamentally correct given the Biblical worldview - God is the Creator of everything, and so everything finds its meaning and purpose in God. However, those who prefer the classical arguments criticize this argument for using circular reasoning, since it starts from hypothesis that God is real in order to conclude that God is real. Then again, those in favor of it argue that it does not contain circular reasoning (I forget exactly why), and that it is also not possible to conclusively prove anything, but if you can conclusively prove anything, it begins with the transcendental argument.
I believe the best starting points are in the classical arguments, which show that God is the *most likely* explanation for why things exist, and then moving from there into the transcendental argument as a follow-up to that conclusion. It does negate the fallacy of circular reasoning, but it does reinforce the premise to a degree that atheists are unable to match using that same logic (beginning with the hypothesis that God does not exist in order to reach that same conclusion). Without transcendent metaphysics, the materialist atheist must either rely on circular reasoning to justify logic, or else they are forced to surrender the concept of logic entirely, which is not ideal but there are many who are willing to make that sacrifice. That kinda sounds like a joke, but I'm being serious - "post modernism" is an umbrella term, but it typically does include the denial of absolute truth and other metaphysical ideas.
(In case anyone wanted to know what the classical arguments are, they are the cosmological, ontological, teleological, and moral arguments for the existence of God.)
That Mormon.com ad tho
Here's the reformed answer from the Westminster Larger Catechism.
Q. 4. How doth it appear that the Scriptures are the Word of God?
A. The Scriptures manifest themselves to be the Word of God, by their majesty and purity; by the consent of all the parts, and the scope of the whole, which is to give all glory to God; by their light and power to convince and convert sinners, to comfort and build up believers unto salvation: but the Spirit of God bearing witness by and with the Scriptures in the heart of man, is alone able fully to persuade it that they are the very Word of God.
Hos. 8:12; 1 Cor. 2:6-7, 13; Ps. 119:18, 129; Ps. 12:6; Ps. 119:140; Acts 10:43; Acts 26:22; Rom. 3:19, 27; Acts 18:28; Heb. 4:12; Jas. 1:18; Ps. 19:7-9; Rom. 15:4; Acts 20:32; John 16:13-14; 1 John 2:20, 27; John 20:31.
Purely Presbyterian Nice.
Translation. The bible is true because the bible says so.
@@Korandon That’s actually not it at all.
@@TurrettiniPizza Ok. The second part is it's ability to convince people. But that's also a thin reed since you can convince people into all sorts of foolishness.
@@Korandon Here’s a breakdown of the argument in basic form.
P. 1. That book which displays divine attributes exceeding human capacity is of divine origin.
P. 2. The Bible displays divine attributes exceeding human capacities.
C. The Bible is of divine origin.
This is a linear argument, not a circular one.
apparently, that command not to lie isn't taken very seriously by this believer...
The cell theory of Biology is considered to be the backbone of Biology it states that the cell is the smallest fundamental unit of life and that all cells came from pre existing cells. This is most certainly a fact. Nowhere in the natural world has a scientist ever documented the spontaneous generation of one single cell from non living material. It doesn't happen ANYWHERE!!! In spite of this fact there are many highly educated people who have gone to great lengths trying to convince us that all of life on this planet is the result of chemicals spontaneously generating into cells which over the course of billions of years developed into male and female species of extremely complex living organisms...THAT IS ABSURD!!! The evidence for God is all around us. You're not really atheists you're delusional
@@tw2800 Thanks for your examples of dishonesty for god.
_"The cell theory of Biology is considered to be the backbone of Biology"_
- *Obvious lie*
_"In spite of this fact there are many highly educated people who have gone to great lengths trying to convince us that all of life on this planet is the result of chemicals spontaneously generating into cells which over the course of billions of years developed into male and female species of extremely complex living organisms."_
- *Amazing oversimplification and misrepresentation.*
_"The evidence for God is all around us."_
- *And yet, when asked no one who makes this claim is able to properly support it.*
_"You're not really atheists you're delusional"_
- *The irony of this statement is astounding. Claiming that other people are delusional by using a delusional claim... classic*
The command not to lie again seems to not be taken seriously by another believer. How sad.
He's assuming that non believers are all aetheists who totally deny the possibility of a higher power. He speaks very confidently and with great authority tho. Great public speaker.
Jeff said that God SPOKE mankind into being, but in fact, God FORMED Adam with His hands from the ground & breathed life into him (his nostrils) only after speaking much of the rest of creation into existence. I'm not a Calvinist (or any other "ist" or "ism"). No offense. I'm a born again Christian & I appreciate Jeff's efforts to minister & giving me ideas when talking to unbelievers or lukewarm believers (or when I talk to anyone not born again, for that matter; the Holy Spirit leads me, regardless). Sometimes I wish I could be there with Jeff while he's talking with these people. God knows I make errors, but they should've caught & corrected that one (at least noted it below the video title). Maybe someone should edit? Thank you for your ministry & for sharing, Jeff. Blessings to all in Jesus! 😃
Takeaway: If an unbeliever asks you how do you know if the Bible is true, then you could just respond by saying, "Why does it matter to you, if you know if the Bible is true or not? If what got you to ask that question is just a bunch of atoms in your brain making connections, what would the benefit of you knowing the answer to your question be?" Without God there is no purpose for our lives. Praise you Jesus.
Of course it matters..we all live in this world together don't we? Your beliefs have consequences for your behavior, our not seeing eye to eye can cause huge conflicts. Of course it matters. Or beliefs & thoughts etc. manifest themselves into the world we all share, so if you belief that other people can't have certain rights because the bible says so, while other people do belief they should have those rights (because they can place themselves in their shoes/don't see anything that should not allow them their rights based on what/who they are) then we have a conflict based on differing beliefs/values. I'm not really good at explaining these things, but it's just ridiculous to say that it wouldn't matter to an atheist, as the atheist still lives on the same earth and has a heart and values etc. The values are just not handed down to them by the bible necessarily but informed through other means.
+Michael Ramos what do you mean? If I'm speaking for myself I'd say that I care about others & myself and that I'd want to help (/not do harm) because I'm a fellow human being and I can feel your pain, so why would I do the opposite? What standard are you talking about?
+ISABELLEISMEE I don't think you understood what I meant. Of course I wouldn't actually mean that if I said that to a person. It would be a rhetorical question that would get them thinking. Then I would go on to explain to them what I meant.
+Michael Ramos Just to clarify, is that what you believe Michael?
+Michael Ramos oh okay, God bless!
Oh dear, oh dear.
I do hope the reluctance of the audience to join in with Jeff's "Altogether, now" moment was because they were too busy face-palming with embarrassment at how flawed these arguments were.
When did the Christian god ever say that all of the Old Testament and all of the New Testament is his word?
I got a question. if u can't know truth without starting with the bible/god, (according to the speaker) how can an atheist know what highschool he or she went too, or what a car is, etc...? aren't there thruths one can know without starting with god or is it just moral truths one cant know without starting with god?
No, because from an athiest perspective, there is the possibility that nothing is actually real. I've heard atheist come to say that there is the possibility that we are all just brains in a vat. Physicality does not prove reality from an atheist perspective.
There are truths one can know without starting with the Bible, moral ones included. It's probably a messier road to take (when you're open to a broad range of perspectives/experiences) & confusing but you and I are magnificent creatures and we have this curious gift bestowed upon us; that we can learn and grow with experience. We also live in a time where we have greater access to information, which can be an asset as well as a liability, because (and I may just be speaking for myself) we're not used to thinking/deciding independently. We may seek guidance. Whose guidance do we choose? There are the traditional powers/authorities like the church & governments, more modern ones like science.. Authority needs to be questioned. Although they may be right a lot of the time and they may provide a lot of expertise on matters, they don't have all the perspectives ever & they can make mistakes or have agendas which influence their version of the truth, which is claimed to be universal.
An upside to science is their methods, which try & weed out personal error and easy assumptions. As I read somewhere else; some people think they're doing independent research when they actually choose/belief in a predetermined theory & then select the evidence that fits their theory or beliefs, instead of the other way around...to find a theory that best fits/supports the evidence. If you make a claim about reality/truth, you have to support it with evidence/observations that can be reproduced. I'm not saying you shouldn't ever believe what you've been told or being told, because we are all limited and we need others to grow and learn, but be aware of the source of your information & see what's been done to ensure its being independent. Do your own critical thinking/debate with different sorts of people. Independent isn't the same as perfect, however, so faults can still be made. Anyway, I don't know if this is of any use to you, but that's my two cents. Great day to you!
For you to know what is true, you need to assume God. An Atheist assumes God by saying 'that is a car' as they are acknowledging Logical Laws which are transcendent of time, space and matter. It is not a matter of 'can' an atheist know truth--rather, how does an Atheist justify any truth without God.
powerfully interesting.
of course atheist have ethics. we experience pain, sadness, hunger, thirst.... all biological consequences as we use up our resources, pain as a reaction to physical harm, sadness as emotional harm.
so we agree on rules to avoid harming one another. it is as easy as that mr durbin. and again. no gods necessary here either.
The question that Jeff is raising is WHERE do your ethics come from? You say that it's just biological fact, and that we all agree on rules to avoid harming one another. Wouldn't that be nice, if that was the consistent human experience. You and I both could talk for days about certain societies that all got together and agreed on a "code of conduct" that hurt a lot of people. So absolute standards of ethics don't actually come from us "agreeing on rules" together, because there has never been a consistent set of rules that people have just naturally employed. It's just people's own inner moral compasses arguing against another. And why should anybody care about somebody else's moral compass, more than their own?
The Christian worldview can account for an absolute code of ethics - God says this, and not that. God commands this, and not that. You can actually have ABSOLUTE right and wrongs in the Christian worldview because we are under the Sovereign - God tells us what is right and wrong as His creations and how we ought to act. So when we see rape, murder, and all forms of abuse we can say that is OBJECTIVELY wrong. The consistent atheist not only can't say that, but won't - go ask a studied atheist if their is objective good and evil. The atheistic worldview has no ultimate argument for anything to be right or wrong. The universe, human experience, everything - to them, is just the result of pure entropy. Chaos. Matter and motion. If everything is matter and motion, then them appealing to immaterial constructs like logic, ethics, rationality, etc. is them BORROWING from the Christian worldview, because in their worldview those concepts are just subjective ways that humans experience the world.
@@IcyJuggernog ah so that explains why prisons are full of about 95% believers then.....
Good sir, where ever did your evidence for ‘prisons being full of about 95% believers’ come from? Just curious.
It's funny cuz I see A LOT OF ATHEIST here and I wonder y? Maybe to reassure them that science is true? Hmmm....
LOKI SAMA
Why even bother though? Sounds like a waste of time for something you don't believe in.
Samuel Brown well most atheist actually would like to know if the Bible is true, with evidence of course. And I got non of that
Im an atheist. Im here to tear down the christian world view so christians will one day stop destroying families, politics, and minds in general. I know im right rhat the christian mythos is BS. im here to convince everyone else.
FreethoughtGreg any facts to support your thesis, or just wild, unfounded assertions?
Religion causes friction in families and politics all the time, this is just undeniable parents disowning atheist and gay children, christian politicians forcing arbitrary standards of morality into law etc. Ive also seen studies that even show children raised without religious indoctrination think more critically and behave more ethically. This should be obvious anyway.
As far as knowing that christianity is wrong, i can cite the numerous logical paradoxes in the supposed nature of god and the many contradictions and ignorant passages in the bible.
Or i could just say nature has revealed itself to me and told me god doesnt exist, and if you truly search with an open heart you will realize that, deep down, you know this truth.
This was not the right questions an atheist would ask, they would ask how do you know that you're holy book is true and that all the others aren't. Also he didn't explain how they know that what happened in the bilbe actually happened in reality
I am writing a college essay for my atheist professor about why God exists can anyone help me with some academic reliable resources to help prove this. God bless.
It looks like nobody was able to help you with that project because of course, there are no such sources. Most everything in the bible is pure fantasy and pure rubbish, self-contradictory and illogical.
I like Jeff and his sermons, but this was a little cringe worthy. I would hesitate to use this reasoning with someone. even if the atheist is "acting like it even matters", the issue of the truth of something still exists, regardless of how they feel about the issue or whether their thoughts or opinion actually do matter. it is true that I am typing this comment. I can say that as a Christian. the atheist can also type their reply say that and be completely correct, even though the atheist does not have God as the ultimate standard. so I don't think that is a strong argument and is easily refutable to someone who can think critically. if I have missed something or misspoken, someone please let me know.
Daniel Root You miss the point. The purpose of this exercise is to demonstrate their inconsistency. It is pointless to continue a discussion with someone who is inconsistent, moving the goal post as it were. You need to get them to be more intellectually honest in order to continue. Arguing with a simple contrarian is a waste of time.
If someone can't prove logic under their worldview, then what is the point in having a logical debate with said person?
Most non-Christians I have debated end up appealing to morality, consciousness, reason, logic, ethics and metaphysical properties in general. From a worldview where our existence came from a chaotic series of evolutionary events, and we exist for no reason but because we do, in a material world that you can't get metaphysical properties out of, our thoughts are simply chaotic formulaic processes that exist for no reason, but because they do. So everything becomes meaningless, relative, subjective, as there is no objective morality, ethics, or reason to do anything the way society has told us to do it, besides fear for our lives from a government that would punish us for not abiding by the law. If someone is arguing that something is illogical, you first have to have a worldview that derives logic from an absolute, or it is an subjective opinion that derived from a meaningless brain, and existence.
You can use this in other senses aswell. If Science uses logic, and logic is metaphysical, then Science saying that God does not exist because we can't see him under the laws of empiricism is using logic, a metaphysical property, to prove the nonexistence of a metaphysical being. In other words, using a transcendental to refute a transcendental is contradicting, and due to the laws of non contradiction, cannot be used as an argument. If you don't abide to the laws of non contradiction, you don't abide to the laws of logic, therefore there is no point having an argument with someone who makes that claim, as you aren't having a logical debate at that point, and every point that uses logic is meaningless.
Once you understand the basics of philosophy, then you will understand that with every point made, you presuppose that you believe in certain things, by using a logical argument, you presuppose that you believe in logic, but if your worldview does not support that, then you are inconsistent, and shouldn't be taken seriously.
@@readifdumb Such a well thought out comment, this is exactly the point!
" If you don't start with God as your foundation, you can't know anything."
One of the very stupidest claims in the history of language.
I’m a Christian and have seen multiple great answers to the question in the video but his answer which is your comment is horrendously ridiculous and make no sense.
Sorry you had to endure that answer.
@@alaskayoung3413
Hit me with a couple, because, other than " I conversed with him myself" which is fine for the experiencing person to then believe( well, if someone talks with someone that they cannot prove is there, we usually call them insane, but if the second someone is supposed to be a god, we call them blessed???) , but really doesn't, and shouldn't, do anything for any other human being, I haven't heard anything that didn't boil down to very poor logic, wishful thinking, or some combination of both.
How would *you* prove the Bible is true? What would convince *you*?
@@PilgrimNinja
That's tough. Considering all of the internal contradictions, and obvious contradictions of the real world, I would say you can't. It is wrong about so much, I can't see it being shown to be true without the destruction of masses of rock solid scientific information that just isn't going to happen.
Now, if you just mean " What would prove that there is a supreme being like the one in the bible" but not that everything in the book is accurate, I would say said being letting itself be known out and out in the public, and showing some miracle worthy abilities on demand, and repeatedly.
If that's the case, then explain this: why is your claim true?
This was quite difficult to comprehend
What about uncontacted tribes that practice killing tribal members? They don't know who Jesus is and don't follow our moral "laws". That's a genuine question.
A lot of the time when an athiest asks you these questions, they don't genuinely want an answer, they aren't genuinely going to listen and take in what you say, they just want to try to trip you up and condemn you in your own talk, kinda like what the Pharisees did to Jesus.
And sometimes atheists do genuinely want compelling and coherent answers. Sometimes, when atheists seem impatient, snarky, or dismissive of what you say, it's because you're repeating inane catchphrases and simplistic explanations that have been offered and debunked many times before.
@@scotte4765 no bud, an athiest has no want for God, it has nothing to do with a lack of intellectual evidence for God, its a logical fallacy to deny the existence of God, an athiest is someone whos heart is far from what is right, and they like it that way, it means they can sin and do things that they know God would disapprove of and by denying the existence of God, it softens the guilt they feel for doing sin, because if there is no God, there is no good nor evil, right nor wrong, truth nor lie, and thats exactly how the athiest wants it to be, because then everything is neutral and then they feel that they aren't so bad at all, and you can be an athiest all you want but everyone knows God exists, everyone, you can tell by looking up at the sky and seeing the beauty of creation, you can tell by the design within creation that their must be a designer, "debunked" i think not, you got a bunch of hellbound fools trying to use logic that they don't like being used against themselves to reject God but everytime it fails.
There is a day when God is going to judge the world it may be a year from now, a hundred years from or a million years from now, but he will judge the world, and if your spending your life being a fool, your going to pay the consequence by the hand of God, but it doesn't have to be that way: come to christ, who alone can forgive sin and grant everlasting life.
@@charliewebb4330 absolutely 💯
@@charliewebb4330 Nope. We just want the evidence. Don't pretend to know what other people mean when they say, "Show me the evidence." Don't gloss over your supposed proof of God by saying, "all the evidence(s) prove God, but we don't have to talk about them because you just want to be a sinner." That's a copout. You don't have ANY evidence that God exists or the Bible is true.
SHOW US THE EVIDENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Read The case for Christ by
Lee Stroble.
Great read it talks about all this.
I'm reading through it right now.
@@ThePaulKM is it good/worth reading??
It lies about all this. Lee Strobel is a charlatan. All the arguments in his books are deceitful and misleading on purpose. It's all a sham.
The question already proves the answer
At 5:07 The Pastor argues that thoughts are more than just "Brain Gas". . . Hmmmm, I'd like to see how well the pastor's brain would function after 4 days without food and water. Our brains need "Fuel" to operate. This Fuel, in the form of chemical reactions (aka "gas") is what enables our brains to function or think.
I mean, if we're going to use presuppositional apologetics, then I suppose it would be fair to turn it around on the believer. Something like - Truth is founded in correspondence to reality. Theists, however, believe that truth is grounded in a deity or deities. Since no deity or deities exist the theist is incapable of grounding truth. The theist really knows deep down that no deity or deities exist, but rejects this so they can avoid dealing with their existential dread and fear of death.
...Damn, why did I never think of this?
"Since no deity or deities exis"
Go ahead, PROVE that. Oh THIS guy's god does not exist, its testable. But no one has ever disproved a Deist god. That there is no rational reason to believe to believe in any god does not disprove all gods.
There may be a god but all testable gods fail testing. Stick to the truth. Leave the unjustifiable claims to the theists. They assume there is a god, you assume there isn't. Neither of you can support your claims.
Join the few, the rational, the Agnostic.
That way the false claims are from the theists.
@@palladin1337
"why did I never think of this?"
Because its unsupported assertion.
@@ethelredhardrede1838 Hey, I never said that it was a completely sound argument. I'm just surprised that I never thought about turning this particular argument against them, since it's completely possible.
@@ethelredhardrede1838 _"Because its unsupported assertion."_
- *I think that was the point. He was presenting it as a counter to the standard Christian presuppositional stance... Its an unsupported assertion as a counter to other unsupported assertions.*
It was listening to stuff like this that makes me bold enough to state that I'm an atheist.
You're not an atheist You're delusional.
The cell theory of Biology is considered to be the backbone of Biology it states that the cell is the smallest fundamental unit of life and that all cells came from pre existing cells. This is most certainly a fact. Nowhere in the natural world has a scientist ever documented the spontaneous generation of one single cell from non living material. It doesn't happen ANYWHERE!!! In spite of this fact there are many highly educated people who have gone to great lengths trying to convince us that all of life on this planet is the result of chemicals spontaneously generating into cells which over the course of billions of years developed into male and female species of extremely complex living organisms...THAT IS ABSURD!!! The evidence for God is all around us. You're not really atheists you're delusional
God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ.
In what way? I am interested to hear your argument for how his argument is foolish. Just saying, “Well that’s dumb because it is and it helps prove my unstated stance.” doesn’t really work for intelligent conversation haha :)
Same how can some people gobble down this garbage "logic?"
Jeff's mics always seem like they are red lining.
It’s true because JC said so
God spoke the universe in to existence and the evidence to that is that the word "universe" means "one spoken word". Atheists cannot dispute that.
The bible is true because no one could fulfill over 300 prophecies written prior to their birth except Jesus Christ. Jesus is the life, the truth and the way.
Walkwithtruth so just because a word means something it proves your god exists? Thats completely rubish logic mate
the proof he exist is because you can make a claim that what the person said is wrong. You have no basis for right and wrong as an atheist. your just spewing forth anything that pops up in your brain (with an atheistic world)
victor R I'm with you on that one. But... what *would* be sufficient proof/logic for you?
I don't know that that is sufficient proof to an unbeliever (victor R for example), but that's a cool observation. I never ever thought to break down the word universe like that.
Grace, Peace, and LOVE be multiplied to you in The HOLY KING YESHUA.
great skit. Should probably be on SNL.
Okay, here's a question. Let's suppose there is a divine source of morality. How do we know that source is YHWH? And not some other god. Or perhaps the laws of ethics are self sufficient in and of themselves. You still haven't proved the Bible true, at best you've shown the need for a divine origin of morality but you haven't shown that the christian God is that origin point.
Nice job of not even addressing the question. Love how he immediately makes it an unbeliever question. Next time, how about he tries addressing modern scholarship on the Bible and put forth his views on the documentary hypothesis and manners of dating books like Daniel, etc... and the authorship problems in the New Testament with many of the letters. Then he might actually put valid concerns to rest.
The volume button is usually located at the bottom left.
"If you don't start with god then whether or not something is true is meaningless."
Okay. Now he's trying to come up with an even more stupid statement.
The cell theory of Biology is considered to be the backbone of Biology it states that the cell is the smallest fundamental unit of life and that all cells came from pre existing cells. This is most certainly a fact. Nowhere in the natural world has a scientist ever documented the spontaneous generation of one single cell from non living material. It doesn't happen ANYWHERE!!! In spite of this fact there are many highly educated people who have gone to great lengths trying to convince us that all of life on this planet is the result of chemicals spontaneously generating into cells which over the course of billions of years developed into male and female species of extremely complex living organisms...THAT IS ABSURD!!! The evidence for God is all around us. You're not really atheists you're delusional
Circular reasoning that is called 😂😂
Pardon? I'm going to work on the assumption that you're an unbeliever, because from Durbin's point of view, the main thing in view here is salvation. If God doesn't exist, and our soul is not eternal, then everything ultimately doesn't matter. You can believe whatever you want, because you die, decompose, that's it. If (and it's not an 'if' in reality) God exists, then the conversation matters infinitely. And creation is all the proof of God you need to know He exists. "Seek the LORD while He may be found" Repent and believe the gospel. Proof that the Bible is real would be more like. Creation is proof that God exists. What the Muslims teach contradicts itself and actually points to the Bible as credible (and the Bible teaches that Jesus is the only way to the Father). Jesus is the fulfillment of Judaism. Everything contradicts itself but Christianity. Also, if you ever experience conversion, you'll have no doubt that it's true.
@@joev2223
"If God doesn't exist, and our soul is not eternal, then everything ultimately doesn't matter."
You are begging the question here.
You are assuming that " if god does not exist" then " everything ulitimately doesn't matter" because " our soul is not eternal".
You offer nothing to prove that God not existing means that the soul is not eternal, nor that, if the soul is not eternal, that, everything doesn't matter.
You just state it and hope people think that you are right. Because???????
"You can believe whatever you want,"
Oh. Thank you very much, but, I don't really need your permission.
"
And creation is all the proof of God you need to know He exists."
The United States of America was created by a 127 foot tall, orange mouse, named Clumbo. All you need to know that Clumbo is real is to know that the United States exists.
See how just making claims without any actual evidence is really, really useless?
"Proof that the Bible is real would be more like. Creation is proof that God exists."
This, once again, is not " proof". Not in the least. It is, in fact, just another claim that you failed to support in any way, shape, or form.
Have you ever actually convinced anyone of anything important by just making claims and offering the claims themselves, or, other unsupported claims, as evidence for the claim???
i.e. " My car was made by martians with magic wands. See. there is my car. The existence of my car proves that it was made by martians with magic wands.
"
Everything contradicts itself but Christianity. "
So, unsupported claim number, what, six? Seven?
"Also, if you ever experience conversion, you'll have no doubt that it's true."
Yeah. The " truly converted" of every religion, extinct or extant, as well as every cult, guru, and MLM on the planet will tell you the exact same thing about their chosen " mythology".
"The Bible is true because it is a reliable collection of historical documents written by eye witnesses during the lifetime of other eye witnesses (in other words, it passed peer review). They report supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies (which can be researched in history), and claimed that their writings are divine rather than human in origin."
> Voddie Baucham
Those writings were proven true at that time by the performing of many signs and miracles in the presence of many witnesses which served as confirmation that what these men spoke came from God. These writings were then faithfully passed down through succeeding generations whose accuracy is well demonstrated in existing manuscripts through the science of textual criticism.
Except everything you just said about the origins of the Bible is completely, demonstrably, false.
No actual Biblical scholar would claim that the bible was written by eye witnesses. The individual books are all 2nd, 3rd, 4th or worse hand retellings of stories... many, written by people who were not even alive when the events took place.
No actual Biblical scholar would claim that the writings were "faithfully passed down," either. The Bible, as we know it today, was cobbled together, from multiple partial manuscripts... many of which contradicted each other, all of which had errors (think typos) and missing segments. Even which books are canon has not been consistent. The Bible you read today does not have the same books and verses as the Bible 300, 500 or 1,000 years ago. (thus making a complete mockery of biblical numerology)
I should add, even right now in 2016, different sects have different versions of the bible. Catholics have _7 more books_ in their New Testament than Protestants do. And lets not even get into the myriad translations...
+Alexander Williams why should we believe your assertions over the multitude of biblical scholarship that exists in academia that attests to the accuracy of the biblical text we have today?
+coachmarc2002 I am sorry but I am not sure exactly which part of my statement you are refuting. First of all, _I am_ a Biblical scholar.
I hope you are not refuting the part about the "myriad translations." If that's it just search out how many English translations there are of the Bible.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Bible_translations
If you are refuting the absolutely verifiable claim that different sects of Christianity even have different Bibles _today_... some with books added, some with books removed, well start with just the Catholics:
www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PCBIB.htm
As an added bonus, that previous link also begins to lay out the undeniable story of how the Bible was cobbled together.
If you are refuting the fact that the individual books are also cobbled together from various ancient manuscripts, all with errors or missing portions and all which contradict each other in parts... well then you need to research the actual source manuscripts. You can start with the link below, but no actual Biblical scholar would deny this truth.
www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-versions-and-translations/the-original-bible-and-the-dead-sea-scrolls/
The church father Papias (70-163 AD) identifies by name both Matthew and Mark as the authors of the books that carry their name, and the casual way in which he does so suggests that these authors were well known at the time. Irenaeus was born about 120AD near Smyrna, and as a young man, he would frequent the house of Polycarp (70-160AD) who was a disciple of the Apostle John, and he identifies all four gospel authors by name.
So one must ask then, if the Apostles did not author the books that carry their name, did the Apostle John lie to Polycarp about the authorship, or did Polycarp lie for him?
And if either lied, why did they do so? Answer this while keeping in mind the manner in which Polycarp died, and the fact that the Apostle John was boiled in oil for what he taught...
F.F. Bruce, in his book "The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?" has this to say:
"The evidence indicates that the written sources of our Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) are not later than c. AD 60; some of them may even be traced back to notes taken of our Lord's teaching while His words were actually being uttered… We have then in the Synoptic Gospels, the latest of which was complete between 40-50 years after the death of Christ, material which took shape at a still earlier time, some of it even before His death, and which, besides being for the most part 1st hand evidence, was transmitted along independent and trustworthy lines."
No scholar in his right mind, after any serious research would attribute the gospels to anyone other than the eye-witness Apostles of Jesus.
I also don't understand when he says, 'the resurrection is part of historical record.'Can he prove this supernatural claim?
roundEarth360 that's because your onion unbeliever if you went and actually checked out the historical records and all the different eras we actually do it everybody who's been atheist who is trying to debunk the Bible that has failed because the Bible is got so much truth to it there's been countless Bible prophecies and predictions have been coming through and coming true and there's more to come yeah good luck with that because truth is truth Jesus is the truth and so is his word his word no never contradict his character ever
@@nickjaramillo9688 What "historical records"? We know of at least 20 first century writers and historians and none of them mention any part of Jesus's birth, life, death, or resurrection. There are no non-biblical, first century, eye-witness accounts of any part of the Jesus story.
What is your best and most convincing prophecy or prediction that has already come true. What prophecy do you expect to come true?
@@timames2238 there was 40 writers of the Bible the Bible was written, by the Holy Spirit inspired from the Holy Spirit was also God through these writers 40 of them through a span of 1,500 years, three different languages and in Parables, every one of them coming out with the exact same events you won't find out in any other history book, The Bible's been proven over and over again historical facts it's God's work God's truth, and they have the same events it affirms at self you got a lot to learn brother
@@timames2238 you know what the hell you're talking about there's 500 key eyewitnesses everything back in those days was written down they didn't have internet back then idiots, but look it up look it up everything was written down back then 500g eyewitnesses right before Jesus ascended to the father you don't know very many thing about anything you don't have to run your mouth and spread lies and in and totally twist the scripture but you don't know what actual truth is because you don't know the truth I do cuz I know Jesus personally
@@timames2238 you obviously don't know what eschatology in eschatology means,? Eschatology and Bible prophecy line up perfectly with scripture and have been the Bible's been 100% accurate in every prophecy and I'm still more to come
The canon of the Bible was not finalized until the 6th century. Meaning the “bible” did not exist for 500+ years after Christ’s crucifixion.
And the Bible Jeff uses wasn’t created until the 17th century (Protestants removed several books).
Christianity was never intended to be based off the Bible, it was to be based off the CHURCH (1 Timothy 3:15) that Jesus created (Matthew 16:18). Early Protestant denominations understood this & argued that their particular denomination was the “one true church.”
Think about it: most people were illiterate until around 1750. How could the Bible be the final authority and the only thing you need for salvation if you can’t read it?
When you base a religion off of a book, you open it up to textual criticism. Meaning different people think the same words mean different things (this is the same problem we have with the constitution). Or people wonder how you can know the translation is correct. This is why there are 20,000+ Protestant denominations.
It leads to atheism because you cannot provide satisfactory answers to questions.
Christianity is not about the WORDS on the page, it is about the EVENTS of Christian history. This is why pictures, drawings, architecture, and icons were used in early Christianity to spread the gospel (and people couldn’t read).
I like Jeff, but I wish he would dig a little deeper. I wish he would ask himself just a few more questions.
Why does Jeff trust that the people who assembled the Bible did so correctly, but Jeff does not trust anything else they practiced or said about Christianity?
It is not about theology, it is about history.
I hope one day James White or Jeff Durbin will talk with Jay Dyer or an orthodox theologian.
"How do we know that the Bible is true?"
Simple. Gullibility. You just read it and aren't allowed to question it, thus being succumbed to the dogmatic character of the Biblical deity of how he's "loving" while being a tyrant. Slavery, genocide, rape, even trying to murder your kin in a "test of faith", should be those reasons to question, not believe. If you want to still believe that it's permissible or a genocidal deity is "worth worshipping", you do you.
(Also, I'm not an atheist. I'm a spiritualist.)
For the beginner who read the bible for the first time..thats how it appears..Its not slavery its indentured servitude and everyother thing who have said is still not correct. You should look from the God's point of view not your point of view.If there is only one true God and people have created many gods and worshipping them and after repeated warnings through God's people and a tonne of patience from God's side, not only they are destroying themselves but also destroying Israelites and God's character of justice demands punishment and eradication of evilness before it is too late..What God did is perfectly perfect.
I am telling you brother don't risk your life when you have much historicity and archealogical evidence and the eyewitness accounts of Gospels when other religions don't have any such things.Dont harden your heart today please. The regret that produces when you come to realisation Jesus is the True God and Why did not I believe when people told me this much about Jesus's sacrifce and love will pain you a lot. So don't risk for eternity of joy in heaven with several decades of life. May you understand the Love and grace of Jesus Christ towards you..Amen
@@entity5678 Yeah, you can believe all you want. I ain't no puppet nor a servant to a tyrant. I choose to live for my own dreams and ambitions for my friends, family and this universe, not for some man made mythology.
Also, your Bible is just a compilation of stolen documents and texts from many other ancient books, from the Sumerian Book of the Dead to the Emerald Tablets. And it's also written by the followers of the Egyptian God, Hermes Thoth.
Stuff exists and it's too complex for me to understand therefore the God I happen to grow up with exists. QED.
Can't argue with that logic.
Some people don’t grow up with a God.
So no one can’t argue with the logic of people who make false assumptions.
None of what you said is even accurate with what the video is.
But typical atheist with their strawmans.
Great argument for a higher power or creator but not for the bible specifically.
Please listen to *Dave Eager* of *Out of Darkness, Into the Light* here on YT and *Talkshoe!*
Great Video. You convinced me that the Book of Mormonism is true.
And I realized that without the Quran, there is no basis for knowing anything. This was really helpful.
@@johnsims3708
I would question you on that, but I can't!
Because without the Quran there would be no logic and reason to begin with!
I guess I am a Muslim now! Thanks mate!
@@ndjarnag
And without the writings of Confucius, where would we be?
@@Demopans5990 Confused as hell.
I expected to find something good here, and all I got was meaningless words that adds up to nothing.
You're on the right track. I, like you, questioned many things about God and the Bible. You're on the first step and that is "Seek and you shall find." If you didn't find the answer here, continue seeking.
@@MrHPT3 Don't give up. Privately ask God to reveal Himself to you, earnestly. Request with persistence. There you will find, and He will draw near to you. Tell Him you don't believe in Him. Ask Him to help you in your unbelief. I think He will give you bizarre experiences that will have you begin to believe in Him upon petition and prayer.
That is a fine argument for Hinduism. If you start with Hinduism you could come to the same conclusion.
sorry but Hinduism doesn't have Christ as our savior, so hinduism is invalid.
@@BidenSUCKSS But the argument is as useful for the Hindu as it is for the Christian.
Noel Pucarua you mean to witness to Hindi about Christ? I agree then
@@BidenSUCKSS Of course not, a Hindu would see through you right away, and see it as duplicitous. If you want to give Christianity a bad name you could try it because everyone could see how manipulative you were trying to be.
Noel Pucarua witnessing is not manipulating.
This is a good video. Thanks. However should we not add a few words at the beginning Of the response- to clarify what the Bible is all about
we should add that this pastor knows NOTHING about science
I 100% understand and love the presuppositional argument.
I just hate having to explain it especially to an opponent with absolutely no intellectual integrity.
Brok Homz you hate having to explain it because you can't. The whole argument is a dishonest fallacy.
+brok if you are a presupp idiot, you already don't have any intellectual integrity. why do you think we hate to explain things to you? other than you are also one of the dumbest shits around.
crisofer954 "fallacy". How so?
louis cyfer you don't need to explain anything. I told you, I already know.
+brok you are a presupp idiot. you don't understand shit, you are just making a circular argument.
I love the presuppositional approach with unbelief. But when it comes to false beliefs, I love that The Truth can be examined & substantiated because lies cannot. Psalm 12:6
Just look at Dead Sea scrolls and other fragments of Old Testament. It's very accurate. Take pieces of New Testament and it's same
Except it isn't. The dead sea scrolls are considered important because it's not the same at all.
So if i don't start with a supernatual god, then i have no basis for science...and yet science assumes the uniformity of nature, otherwise no scientific conclusion could be reached because if god wanted to, she could alter the uniform laws of nature, right?