Shimano Ep8 Vs EP8 RS | EBike Motors Compared
Вставка
- Опубліковано 22 жов 2020
- Orbea has just launched a new lightweight ebike called the Orbea Rise, it features an exclusive Shimano motor unit called EP8 RS. But what's different between the RS model and the standard EP8 model? How do they compare? - Time for a hill climb challenge!
We used the Merida E160 using the EP8 motor with 85Nm torque and the Orbea Rise with 60nm torque.
Subscribe to EMBN: embn.me/subscribenow
Pick up official EMBN merch: embn.me/zY
Follow us on Instagram or Facebook! @emountainbikenetwork
Sign up to the EMBN newsletter: embn.me/newsletter
Please submit your content to our uploader: upload.embn.com/ we love to check out what you have been up to and may feature it on the show!
Watch more on EMBN...
📹 Features Playlist - embn.me/Features
🎵 Music - licensed by Epidemic Sound
The Sound of Solitude - Matt Large
#EMBN #EMTB #MountainBiking #eBiking #MountainBike #MTB #BikeLife #Cycling #Ebike #HillClimb
The Electric Mountain Bike Network (EMBN) is the world’s leading electric mountain bike (eMTB) channel and community.
Dedicated to igniting your passion for eMTBs, EMBN delivers weekly original content to inspire you to take your riding further, faster - and with more fun.
Whether you live to conquer the techiest terrain - both up and down; to access and explore the beautiful backcountry; or simply to pack as much fun as you can into the precious riding time you have, EMBN is dedicated to covering eMTB from every angle.
From inspiring you to go electric - helping you understand what you need, where and how to ride to get the best from your eMTB experience, and more - through showcasing and exploring the latest, most innovative tech, empowering and entertaining features, to skills videos that help you progress and can tackle ever-more adventurous terrain, and much, much more.
Every week we bring you informative and entertaining videos on…
- The know-how…
- The skills…
- The tech…
- The inspiration…
...to go faster and explore more!
EMBN is mountain biking… fully charged: helping you go faster, further, and with more adventures than ever before.
Join the EMBN community:
Facebook:
Instagram: embn.me/instagram
Twitter: embn.me/embntwitter
Thanks to our sponsors:
Specialized: embn.me/specialized
Haibike: embn.me/haibike
Canyon: embn.me/canyon
Ergon: embn.me/ergon
Maxxis: embn.me/maxxis
Park Tool: embn.me/parktool
Garmin: embn.me/garmin
Muc-Off - embn.me/MucOff
Mavic Wheels: gmbn.eu/Mavic - Спорт
What do you think of the new Shimano EP8 RS Motor? Is 60Wh enough power? Let us know your thoughts 👇
No. Why would you want less power?
Dont get hung up on light bike vs heavy , that light bike could have the full fat motor just from a firmware change and be the best of everything for its intended purpose. Just pack a couple battery extenders, one on the bike and one in a pack and you have a light bike with 700WH and a full fat motor perfect for lighter riders and folks who don't jump a whole lot!
Never enough power, especially when youre able to select different power options !!!!
It's a stunning bike and any development is good for the Industry and users, but every application that the Orbea is described as being for can be applied to the Merida (Or any other similar EMTB, like Orbea Wild FS), but the reverse can't be applied to the Orbea. Yes there will be a few individuals that it will "suit", but as I said those individuals could have the same experience on the Merida.
@@CarkeekW yip. A lightweight bike with the same potential power and range as the heavier bikes and you have a winner. I agree I don't get it as you can have the best of both worlds if you can customise it. What it will do is force all other manufacturers to get their bikes lighter and more like analogue equivalents. Surely that's all good for us, the consumers.
This video really emphasized in a great way, that one should evaluate the type of riding that one does or will do and then make an informed decision. Great video.
Pretty cool Steve keep up the good work so much involved in the ever changing world of electric mountain bikes. Hammer on chap.
Obviously I am aware that the torque reduction means a lower consumption, and this allows to carry a smaller battery, which results in a lower weight. But, for me, the perfect solution would be to be able to configure the engine with this new "RS" mode, so that you could choose between reduced torque and full torque, even knowing that with 85N the battery consumption will be quite higher and therefore the route cannot be that long; but this could be valid for short "missions with the knife between the teeth" ...
Furthermore, it must be taken into account that Orbea has a battery extender for the Rise (256 Wh additional and 1.5 kilos additional), with this solution it could be used in full torque mode and do long routes, that is, partially penalizing the weight (even then it would be a fantastic 17.5 - 18 kilos).
I have the ORBEA Rise M10 and I tested a Trek Rail of 23,5 kg. The rail was horrible on the decents. It only wanted to go down straight. Cornering was a struggle. The Rise is way more agile and I ride uphill in mostly eco, which is more than enough, because I ride with people without motor. The Rise is fun, agile and capabel on all the trails in Belgium and Germany
Did you use the Shimano Etube Project app on your phone to set the bikes up before testing? Orbea Rise boost mode is only 47 NM of torque from the factory until you turn it up to 60 in the app. Also assist character level is a 4 out of 10 in boost mode before you turn it up in the app on the rise. I do not know about the other bike
I don't get those lighter e-mtb's , what are they trying to achieve... Unless you need to cary them on your shoulder or drag over dunes, I don't see any problem with a 25kg e-mtb, with huge range and powerful motor. It will take you further, faster, more easy. Clear win for me.
The extra power, and battery size makes up for a few kilos anyday... like riding a donkey instead of a horse... the horse can more than carry it's own weight, and the rider gets a faster ride...
@@davidking3699 The point of lightweight Emtbs is to attract the attention of the Mtb population that might still think Emtbs are the work of the Devil .What has been learnt over the past few years is rider weight is most relevant .For me being nearly back to my birth weight at 63kg I like the stability the bike weight gives and just use lower say max 55% motor settings with a 700wh battery if you want super long range. Emtb²
@@robhaskins3068 I agree ... also the final summary of the two bikes. What was described for the Orbea could be applied to the Merida (Or any other similar EMTB), but what was described in summary for the Merida couldn't be applied to the Orbea (For the masses, ok a few XC whippets will disagree, but you know what I mean)
Only problem i have with my 24kg EMTB is lifting it into the van, after a long ride, when I'm tired and the bikes covered in mud!!
A lighter bike is more playful and jumps better. I have a 50+lb commencal ebike and its definitely way harder to throw the bike around in the air compared to my friends non e-bikes. My next bike probably wont be an ebike because im 26, fit, and not made of money. But if I had the 10k canadian to spare I'd seriously consider that orbea.
Good job Mr J, good comparison. As much as I like to think of myself as a techie climbing, mountain munching, downhill hurtling Emtb grandmaster the truth is far from it. I'm more of a trail plodder with great aspirations so on that note I want the E160 for the power and bigger suspension but for what reason.....It looks good and on paper sounds and can do all of the above. But in reality the Orbea is also a great looking bike and probably more than enough for what I need. What helped me come to this is the fact my Ebike has the E7000 motor so the same amount of torque as the Orbea and I can say it does more than enough for me including me patting it sometimes at the top of a monster climb cause it got me to the top.
Can really hear that claking!! I think "Rooty" is a song by Basement Jaax.
It’s interesting, we are possibly looking at running a e bike event in Devon based on sections being timed technical climbs then descents , offering entries in weight categories. There’s a lot of factors to take into account though ! And this again shows the difference in torque is a big factor !
I would bet on the rs in technical ride
It's all about distance travelled for me. Assuming same rider power input, which one with stock installed battery will go further?
I really like the idea of lightweight e_bikes, it will be interesting to see what other brands may launch in this area of the market over the coming months.
Great that Steve, very tempted by the Rise, adventures are the thing for Ebike’s
If the motors are the same weight then what accounts for the huge difference in the weights of the bikes? The batteries?
Really would of liked to see when those tires would of done to the Rise.
Interesting comparison ! But what motor profile did you use for this test? The light Profile 1 or the more powerful Profile 2?
I’m curious too. I heard profile 2 makes a big difference.
Trying to narrow down choices for a potential spring 2021 purchase. What is the best motor choice for a 200lb/91kilo rider ? or minimum torque I should consider?
My local trails are very hilly with lots of very steep climbs and descents.
THx!
Hi Gregory, I’m in the same boat and have gone with the Wild FS. I think you need the 85nm for those killer steep bits plus it’s all rough rocky black descents here so need a bike with tough DH casing tyres which also means more power needed. I love the Rise but it’s not tough enough.
Surely adjusting the firmware on the Orbea could give you 85Nm when needed. Seems like an unnecessary compromise if you can get high torque and low weight through software.
Maybe limited the power to make the "trail" grade ( smaller lighter everything ) components last? I agree though - why cant the customer have the choice?
Couldn't agree more . It's like having 300hp in your car and only being ever allowed to use 200. What about when you want an hours thrash through the woods after work ?
It’s about the batterie. It can’t deliver enough power without getting damage. But I wonder how many mm more for the downtube would have solved the problem. It’s clear, Orbea‘s goal was to achieve the slimmest emtb possible.
In other words: there will be no firmware unleashing the 85nm... unfortunately
Does the weight of the motor mentioned at the beginning include crankset? Or is that just for the motor?
Hey @Steve excellent video, still one question lies in the back of my mind. Let's imagine I'm a fit guy who ride 5 times per week and I buy the Rise, will I be able to compete in stiff climbs with my friends that are not as fit as I am but that have "full fat " e-bikes ?
If you want to climb with less effort and lower cadence go for power plus battery, no need to be an athlete to maintain a cadence and shift gear, the orbea rise will take u there.
@@richardthibert3222 thanks, but what's the power plus battery, is it an internal battery or a range extender?
Be interesting to have the 85nm motor in the orbea don’t you think?
Super comparaison entre les 2 powers , bon test 👍👍👍😊😊😊
I currently have an E Bike with a Shimano E 7000 engine. I weigh 109kg am I considering switching to an EP 8? I would like to know if the battery consumption would increase if the screws on the frame are the same? And if the replacement is relatively simple. My battery is a BT 8035 from 504w
I have big problem to place my heavy Scott (over 25 kg) on car's roof even without battery.
This is good reason to change for lighter bike.
60 Nm is enough.
More important is the ability of riding in unplugged mode.
Remove the battery ?, or transport your bikes on the towbar. I wouldn't transport 2 normal bikes on my car's roof ( it's known to be an issue on some cars ). Of course company cars can be a hassle, having to invest in a towbar every 4 years ( 4 year lease ) and technical inspections every year ( in Belgium ) ?
@@dawn-moon For me transport of the bike on the roof is better option.
I use Thule upride device.
I have long car but low.
I remove battery to decrease the weight thule is predicted for 20kg and speed 130 kph.
I just bought a eone sixty last week and it comes in at 22.3kg and I also transport mine on the roof but it’s defo a nightmare lifting it up there especially after the ride but you take the rough with the smooth I guess
I can see the benefit of a lighter bike for long epic rides and especially when lifting over gates and turnstiles on country trails.
So how often do you think you are gonna lift any bike?
I have a question. Is it possible to do that single tecnical track on same mtb bicycle that is without motor or is it too steep? Also in which category is Orbea and Merida?
Do a levo SL V's Orbea Rise video please
I just wonder to what extent the RS motor is JUST less power or does it also differ in software that would account for different response to pedalling. Does anyone know?
I'm fat and old and probably lazy... I started out on turbo all the time on my 2019 Fathom E+3 and I'm now doing the hardest climbs trail mode.... The cassette is pure wank with only 9sp so there's times I need boost just because I don't get a low enough gear.
This is the second video I've watched about the Orbea rise and you've mentioned the front sprocket size but not the cassette or gearing... I'd be happy out with the ep8 RS if the gearing was right for what I want to do...
I'm thinking about trading up to the Orbea wild 🤔 do I want to spend another 3 grand?
You can put an 11-40 9spd cassette on to get a lower gear.
These semi skimmed bikes are all well and good if you weigh about the same as a basket of soup 😆 I’ll stick to me full fat 85nm Bosch thanx 😂 nice looking bikes though and good vid 👍
It would have been interesting to see the difference in the times with the tires swapped. I believe lower volume softer compound would be faster. Bike radar did an interesting experiment sometime back comparing 2.3, 2.6 and 2.8 inch tires. See if you can find it, astounding results
Serious question, why orbea as marathon long distance bike, when the battery is only 360wh?
Please elaborate.
3/4 hours without the extender isn't really marathon, but the extender gives it 680wh so that's rather nice for a bike that weighs only 16kg
I hear you but is it that weight with the extender and 16. something means you have to have DEEP pockets as that's the most expensive model which is a fortune . A lot less for more as usual unfortunately.
@@tobyehillier with extender, then it won't be 16kg. Closer to 20kg maybe. Still light for under 20kg, but the Merida with 630wh battery maybe will have similar range. Plus he didn't mention extender to make it marathon bike. That's why I need some explanation why Steve called the orbea as marathon bike.
Actually the tested bike weighs around 18kg. In a test of another magazin it reached about 35km and 610m elevation range on boost mode wich is similar to a "normal" Emtb with an 500wh battery. The range extender adds 1,4kg and 252wh. That makes it a sub 20kg, really capable Eb with 612wh. Thats really amazing in my opinion.
@@jonaskrumbacher9053 yes it does but a good few kilos in rider weight difference and a less powerful motor do make a heck of a difference . The price for less options is the question.
Ooh 16kg, it is tempting but can I convince the wife that we should spend 10K on two new bikes. Our present bikes have the old Yamaha motors generating 70kw so only 10kw less for the Orbea . But the bikes are 7kg lighter. Lifting them over locked gates becomes possible again. The downside, you can't take the batteries out to charge them, could be a problem in B&B's or hotels. Food for thought though. How come GMBN got the jump on you with the Orbeas Steve!!!!!
Nice bike! Shame orbea didn’t put the a Bosch motor on it 😢
Just bought the Orbea and I agree..at the same time the 27.5 wheel will be faster then the 29er and not switching wheels is a fail...
Interesting but... in my eyes it would have been great also to test the range difference ! Hard to believe that with the smaller battery the Orbea bike would have a better range. But I might be wrong and if this the the case thanks to its lighter weight then yes, it begins to be an attractive bike. Otherwise what's the point of having this kind of bike unless if you need to carry it in Col de Malata ;-) ??
A real negative of any ebike that has a proprietary battery is the lack of rental availability if you want to travel with your bike on an aircraft and get a battery At your destination...
What about the resistance of the motor when assistance is off?
I agree, very few reviews or motor comparisons mention this. A long day exploring often involves some areas where you would be doing 17/18 mph pedalling and the drag can be unbearable and a killer at the end of a long day.
Turn down peak torque on the Merida to match (you can) and with the bigger battery it will go further than the orbea (matching tyres will make it even more obvious). So which is really the big day out adventure bike? The only problem with my 22kg e8000 equipped ebike is lifting over gates and 500wh only just being enough for a 100km day out in eco mode (which is a lot less than 60nm and is fine for a long touring ride). Also I have boost for that tricky obstacle moment. So I like the idea of a light bike but not at half the battery capacity of the Merida. Where does the weight loss really come from? Seems a lot more than just a weedy battery. What does it weigh with the range extender on? Why can’t I have a sensible battery with an 18kg bike and software in the RS isn’t any lighter than the eps software so I’ll have an eps and just not run everywhere in boost to get more range and have the extra torque if I need it (Oh and I need to check out the price... suspect I’ll be sticking with what I’ve got. Both good looking bikes though).
I'm probably the type of rider that Rise is aimed at, cause I spend 97% of the time in Eco mode and 3% in Trail (middle) mode cause I mostly do long distance forest road XC riding and I like to put in more work. I never use Boost mode. But still I would rather take standard ebike, for longer range and that power in case I need it on rougher terrain and very steep climbs or just want it for fun. And this setup where you can't change inner battery is annoying to me! So to get to 1000wh capacity you need 2 or 3 range extenders. But it will find its customers that's for sure. What we really need is fully powered big battery 16kg bike 😁 But I guess we will not watch that movies anytime soon, if ever!
Or just pedal a light bike when the battery dies or save the batt for hills.
no way , happy with my (heavy) Cannyon Spectral 7.0 ( with steps unlocker , much more happy ) ... but my next willl be a Bike with the TQ System or the big Bafang .
What do you think about the "CZEM Drill ONE " Electric Bike ?
PS. i also like your FPV Stuff , got some similar Intressts , wnat to have the Iflight Alpha 85HD , for my DJI Fpv System .... best for my Yard
Greets from Germany
85nM or 60nM... With the same battery, this only means that if using BOOST mode, the 85nM motor will have less range and more max assist, and the 60nM motor will have more range and less max assist.
The difference from an EP8 and EP8 RS is a firmware/software difference that ORBEA made for the RS. The bike is lighter (smaller battery at 360wH or 540wH, vs a full power eBike battery typically 740wH , sometime more. This makes the Rise a nice handling eBike.
However, the earlier Orbea EP8 RS version can be tuned to 85nM assist using software. A bike shop can certainly do it for th owner if they so choose. And Very few owners will want to ride in BOOST mode all the time. The boost is really only useful for climbing the steep trail sections. The bike is capped at 20mph for the motor assist anyway (US) and about 16mph in other countries (unlucky you guys).
I think... i love my eOne Sixty 8000 with its EP8 and 630wh battery and i don't have the option to own anything else so happy days! 😁
we need a comparison between the Rise and the SL
I'd take the Rise even if the prices were equal but I'm sure Big S has something better in the works.
@@brakesforsnakes757 I am not soo sure, they had that motor made just for the SL, I would think that them getting the SL even close to the 60 from the rise is not happening...... For me I would take the Rise over even my current Levo and I am a heavy guy, but I could live with 60. I could not live with the limited SL
@@CaviDS That motor had some serious issues and Specialized only started addressing the problems after there was an avalanche of pressure from customers on social media. I'll stick with Bosch which I have already or Shimano.
How come there's a display on the orbea bike?
There's a display on both of them. The std Shimano display for the ep8 which is similar to the Shimano e8000 display
It must be the M-Team version which I believe comes with the screen. The M-Ltd only comes with the EW100 battery indicator.
hmmmm, maybe they had it right with the 60nm e7000?
All about the clime Steve !
Orbea is a nice XC bike build but strange for me. First if you upgrade it for better fork, shock and tire, the final weight is 18,5kg. Not so far a levo with bigger battery and motor. Second, if you ride the XC setup, you will probably do long ride and you need the second battery all the time. Nice bike but strange setup.
At that weight the fork works perfectly. Add another 5kg of battery and you might need a stiffer fork which inturn weighs more needing more power and battery.
Ah ok. I saw this "RS" badge on an EP8 bike at my local bike shop today and thought oh damn. Already my EP8 is dated. Glad it's not an official shimano product. I expected it might have 100+ torque over the EP8. Not reduced. But I can understand why they would do this. lighter loads on your drive-train and hub bearings. longer out the battery. (Tho you can just do this in the app) you don't really need full power on an EP8 unless your powering through thick sticky mud or want to go up steep hills with zero input. - This "RS" is a bit like me buying a ford focus. remapping the engine and sticking an RS badge on the back. I hope people don't buy these bikes actually thinking it's an officially updated motor.
Levo sl vs rise ? Interesting indeed
why not swap the motors?
Orbea have their own firmware and everything.... Closed shop altogether
Funny that .
Maybe consider rider weight also, a lighter rider don’t need as much engine help to feel the same effect as a heavier rider.
Don't care about the weight, more torque, bigger motor and battery, looking forward to the future when a 4000 w/h battery is the norm.
I think this ORBEAs more suited for long distance rides rather than smashing f**k out of trails.
A blue RS logo……. It’s an embarrassment for the famous letters!!
Anything RS in my eyes should be absolutely bonkers fast!!!!
That Orbea weighs 18.5kg
I'm sure you'll be able to hack the FW with STUnlocker...
What’s that noise knock knock knock
It's a feature.
9:47 3 hours later...
It's a funny one, lighter bikes means you can go further, for longer in turbo/boost, but that means you won't use as much of your own steam, which sort of makes the lighter bikes pointless. I'd rather have a more 'capable' 'planted' bike that can go further AND I get a work out.
Well if weight does not matter I would buy a flyon haibike allmtn and get lighter wheels and tyres.
This sport will never ever really take off until the price of these fucking bikes comes down.
Got to say on reading some of the comments and hearing the review, indeed you have to think what kind of rider you are and how you like to challenge yourself. I personally like the big hits and gnarly as possible downhills so it is a no brainer...more torque and sturdier bike to get me up the hill and shred the downhill multiple times which equates to little motor usage on downhill unless there are some nice tech uphill bits for the challenge. It's exactly the same as your choice on riding an acoustic bike... it's all about the terrain you prefer and how hard are you going to hit it on a consistent basis...would really like to swap out my e8000 for this new EP8 specifically for the use of extra torque on some challenging tech uphill and of course that 36% supposed less friction when it comes to hitting gaps, jumps and drops. (Vitus Esommet)
Full power eMTB for me. I'm a strong guy, no problem lifting it even with battery ;-)
@Zangief ☭ To irritate people like you 😁
These full suspension bikes are simply to heavy. 23-24kg?! My 3 year old Ghost Kato Hybride Hardtail( aluminum) with the E8000 is around 20kg. Would love to see a Hardtail Orbea Rise or Levo SL with 13-14 kg!
Embn hate hard tails
i can change the 85 NM at the EB8 also to 60 NM! i don't see the Different to the RS
Yeah, but it's got a fancy badge.
But you cant change the 60nm to 85 at the RS. They also say is has an even more natural feeling assist than the normal ep8 and may be more efficient
@@jonaskrumbacher9053 you can change from 60 to 85NM? than it is ok!
the funny thing is they have named it RS, that badge suggests a "race" version, but it's actually more slow :) marketing guys will never learn... :)
@@dawn-moon RS means relatively slower
I can't see the point of the EP8 RS as it currently stands - it is artificially restricted to 60nm when it is capable of 85nm.
I get it that this is lighter bike, with a smaller battery, but they could've achieved everything they required, and still given a higher "extra power" mode to unlock the 85nm of the EP8 if you really want to do this.
@Zangief ☭ This isn’t how batteries work - the 360wh battery in the Rise consists of 21700 cells, just less of them than a “full-fat” battery on a regular EP8 equipped bike. Regardless of this though, you can now get the EP8 RS motor on the Orbea Rise “unlocked” to provide the full 85nm, if you so desire.
See all these folks saying someone gave me a push you dont need anymore power. Heres a novel idea not everyone is the same and stop showing your ignorance. A pint to the first person to bypass this manufacturers limitative nonscence. Cmon i want to see a de restricted 16kg bike do that chalenge
Spot on .
Not enough power haha. Please review the bafang ultra 160nm of torque, that would be good
@Zangief ☭ have one too but a bike gives more portability
What if you dont know what sort of rider you are..? Buying into e-MTBs isnt cheap. Why limit the ways in which it can be deployed because of the way it has been designed to work..? I personally dont get the weight weenie whinging with e-bikes. YOU HAVE A MOTOR ! Id rather they put robust tyres and a more heavyweight drive train ( in built gearbox/motor & belts as a the norm) instead of keep trying to eek out every little niche. The MX makers do it too...There is too much emphasis on selling the things with sales BS imo.... Changing gear in BOOST will trash your chain and cassette....I saw ya' !! lol
Some of us are over 60 and want a nice trail bike for exploring. Need suspension so hub motor flat bar gravel bike doesn't cut it. Lightweight medium travel XC/Trail bike no motor drag is what is needed. The motor is a bit of a get out of jail free card when your knackered half way round. I still try to do as much as i can with it switched off.
There are XC, Trail, Enduro, and DH bikes. Not everyone does downhill. Most reviewers have access to terrain many don't. Hardcore Enduro and DH guys likely will like a full E bike as a self lift. XC, Trail, and light Enduro now have an option of a bike that can extend the range of your rides without radically changing the "feel" of your ride. I don't live near massive elevation changes. I don't care which climbs quickly, I care which bike is nimble and fun and reserves my energy for jumps and gives me a range boost. I get that those in massive elevation range changes will likely prefer the full E bike. No tool does it all. Pick the best tool for the job.
Do they know RS stands for rat s....?
I can’t express enough, my Garmin, alongside Komoot, took me somewhere no-one from EMBN or GMBN would get through,
I genuinely haven’t been on my bike since, ruined my feeling for riding a bike. I thought it was a normal ride home. Ridiculous.
Shimano Ep8 👎..Bosch Cx4 👍
This bike is a dumb concept. The motor hardware is exactly the same, it's not a gram lighter. Should have the option of full power output and then be able to adjust it to suit your tastes. The bike is light-ish via a small battery and lack of heavy duty components. Far from innovating
TORTURE
How can the bike with half the battery capacity be "all day - long range - adventure" ???