@@ohandthefrackingI feel the same way honestly. Is Q a bad lip syncer ? Sure. But at least you can see she tries to give a performance. Both times we’ve seen Dawn lip sync, she just gave up and didn’t even know all the words.
Dawn definitely has a niche, because in girl groups to her own lyrics she was pretty good. Very witch energy, also both times she lipsynced she knew she wasn’t winning. You’re going to tell me I should be trying against Morphine to BODY??? Hunny she did more than I would, at least she was trying to be sexy.
I think your unrigging balances things out because: if you put Nymphia in the top for the talent show, then she absolutely uses her potion for Snatch Game, and that can be her character arc. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
She actually comes back at finale 6, wins the next 3 challenges, slays her lip top 3 lip sync, makes top 2 where she does an even better lip sync, and finally wins.
@@GeovannyJoestar i gotchu! Plane Jane said to Q “Kudos for saying that, for spilling” as a way to compliment her bravery. Kudos is a word used that means “well done or “ well said “. People are memeing it now with random things😊
tbh seeing what she's posted on twt it looks like Megami could've had a really strong run, and really shouldn't have been in the bottom for the rusical imo
@@yep991it's just unfortunate honestly, she worked her ass off and q got praised and a high placement for walking around 🧍♂️. It should've been morphine vs mhiya here and mhiya got sent packing imo.
@@yep991 Agreed it shouldve been Dawn and Mhiya in the bottom, Megami wouldve done good in the funk verse challenge and probably the other design challenge she can sew really well
Ms. Estitties getting placed all the way in the finale last year fit very well in my fantasy. I knew the comments saying it was ridiculous but I didn’t even care I loved it😂😂
Btw Plane was at the top of the ranking from group 2 so if Plane didnt mess with the rate a queen she would have either stayed 1st or been second not been knocked out the top 2
He said that that these ratings were just him ‘unrigging’ it as if it was chosen by the judges but he clearly put his personal opinions in it because Plane Jane was very clearly a Top 2 contender
Also pushed out of top in doll challenge because she's not branding enough while keeping fairy Q and astronaut Dawn there. And putting her bellow top 2 in episode 1 despite Geneva having less points than her to begin with. Skipping episode she won. I mean, it's still interesting to watch but it's still riggory, just different xd
i had truly been holding on to hope that plane could win the season, but the last straw was that she deliberately chose not to be vulnerable in the book challenge, which surprised me a lot because she always knew exactly what needed to be given at all times, whereas with nymphia i literally cried with her interview (and when she won) and it made me root for her instead of plane (especially with that bodysuit song which, again, left us not knowing who she truly is)
@@Boss-cj6zn lolll i liked sapphira but idk there was something about her that always seemed so perfectly rehearsed, you always knew what you were going to get from her, and those dancing biscuits sure didn’t help 😅🫢😂 and as for her finale performance, there was nothing that felt fresh or new, she “”only”” did an outfit and wig reveal (i’m choosing to leave the vampire fangs out bc it didn’t go anywhere 😶), and while nymphia did that too, she brought new elements (the boba balloons, the cartwheel reveal) and sapphira’s gags felt underwhelming
Granted, most of the time the queens don’t write their finale songs themselves (whereas plane sent in a demo of hers) which just goes to show that Plane didn’t do as good of a job as the professional writers. No shade to her, just something to consider
Top 2 for episode 2 would 100% be Plane and Nymphia. Production didn't see Geneva as a competitor in the long run and wouldn't waste a top 2 placement with her
He did it based on the overall reception (and his opinion) to Planes performance vs Geneva’s. Genevas was more well liked. I lived for Burger Finger personally, but yk 😭🤷🏼♂️
Respectfully as someone who used to blindly hate on plane, the placement shifts you gave her remind me of that old thought process the talent show is a branding challenge, plane out of anyone in that episode was able to show her brand and personality to the judges, audience and in her performance + runway these ball critiques are so wild as well because there’s legitimately 3 other options for that low spot that make more sense than plane (plasma mirage and amanda) and if you wanted to highlight megami for the design challenge i’d either just have another top placement or swapped dawn out because of her ripped unhemmed head piece
@Nate-ht4se i had to take a step back and realize i just didn’t like her when i convinced myself she should’ve been in the bottom for girl groups 😭😭 plane hater delusion will take you to crazy places because she killed courage to love
I agree on everything except the doll design challenge. You claim she should win talent show because it’s branding, but the doll design challenge was the main branding challenge of the season. While I think Dawn still had a weaker execution than Megami, what saved her was the branding. The whole Aqua thing Plane did made no sense, and I don’t think she’s ever branded herself like that since. She had the opportunity to go for like a Russian Princess or maybe even a fast food employee doll to reference her Burger Finger performance.
@@psio4213 yea i can definitely say that the design challenge is the most wishy-washy of her placements especially with the branding element to it, the reason why i agree with her top tho is the actual garment and how it translated and looked on the doll, definitely comes down to a matter of opinion though (especially because there was like 3 components to that challenge and the judges never judged them consistently for anyone) but i totally understand what you’re saying and if they laid out the rules for that challenge better i’d probably put megami and dawn in the top
@@aiden8502 Heavy agree on the last part of your comment, about the rules needing to be laid out. There’s so much discourse around the new challenges they introduced because there isn’t really anything to base the judging off of. While I presumed the doll design challenge was branding (since that’s what they made it out to be), they could go forward & continue to prioritize the actual garment when they reuse this challenge.
38:30 Actually, in this timeline, Nymphia had The best trackrecord. Since Nymphia now wins the Talent Show, the Bathroom Challenge was CUT and the PowerPoint presentation win was handed to Team Plane: Nymphia having 4 wins/1 btm, to Saphira's 3 wins/1 btm. You could actually argue that Nymphia Win both The competition AND the Lipsync xD
Yes, Morphine in the top! My bestie and I were THRILLED watching Morphine in the Rusical living her best life, hitting every beat and bringing so much joy and spirit into her moves… so when she was placed low, we were left gasping. The final dagger to the back was Q being in the top when we thought she was gonna be bottom 2. 😬
Really just here for more outside confirmation that Sapphira did not deserve that Corporate Queen win. Though the Q reaction afterwards was pretty amazing, but with the edit we got, that double win made the most sense.
@@chuuedup_ They both lacked branding, which was the main point of the challenge. The reason why a lot of people feel as though Megami deserved a high placement was because she executed the branding part of the challenge excellently while still looking really good.
I had a problem with the entire body being the same fabric. It ended up looking like nothing. Also branding yourself as new York by dressing up as new York is not branding yourself.
@@psio4213 Yeah I see that but I don’t fully agree that they lacked branding tho. Plane’s was a bodysuit and Nymphia’s was yellow. Megami’s was just New York so I don’t think that’s much better. And the look itself was worse.
I think he’s forgetting how STUNNING Nymphia’s runway was for Dancing Queen (Snatch Game) while Morphine wore a Halloween costume. That’s why Nymphia was saved. RUNWAYS MATTER (sometimes)
@@vstoneman she was still atrocious is snatch game. Her and Xunami were leagues worse than everyone else. Morphine wasn’t great but to place her in the bottom solely because Nymphia’s runway was better was straight up favoritism towards Nymphia.
@@maximeminassian6002 Nymphia did have the best runway of the week. But morphine was only a little better than nymphia, enough to where Nymphia's runway fills the gap and then some. Also, I think it was productions way of apologizing for nymphia not winning the talent when she was the clear winner.
@@vstoneman Morphine really wasn’t just “a little better” than Nymphia. She was clearly better and at least had the decency to let Ru talk (something Nymphia didn’t). I honestly think Morphine could’ve even been swapped in the bottom with Dawn (who was just playing herself and got no screen time). And what is this bs about production apologizing ? Nymphia didn’t win the talent show because Plane played the game smart, production had nothing to apologize for. Nymphia also could’ve/should’ve been in the bottom for the rusical (she missed many of the words which they clearly tried to hide in the edit) and the bathroom challenge (she needed to calm down and let Dawn speak, and their bathroom presentation was clearly worse than Q and Morphine’s).
Goth Fashion isn’t set & stone. It is incredibly nuanced as it is not a fashion based sub-culture. I am a Q disliker through & through, but her look was the best crafted of the night. I do agree on the talent show however.
@@basic_battle But she was. Goth (as stated previously) is not a fashion based culture. However, it has birthed tons of sub-cultures such as traditional goth, Victorian goth, etc. which do come with their own unique aesthetics. Q’s look specifically was incredibly reminiscent of Neo Goth fashion with a more elevated-runway twist, which I think is more than fine considering none of these queens seemed to have too much knowledge on what goth was. There is no set & stone image for what Goth fashion is, as Goth is way too big of an umbrella term in this scenario.
i don't think plane would have given it to her tho. her giving nymphia the potion was heavily influenced by the potion's expiration. she kept the potion for herself until the last second, and she realized she didn't need it, so she used it on nymphia. but either way, derek gave nymphia the win in the lipsync so it wouldn't have mattered
my pre-prediction: -Mayhem miller returns to competes and goes home that same episode -JuJubee returns mid-season as guest judge and compete for 1 episode but leaves for drag race Antarica -Q RCTA Arc -Sherry Pie Cameo Race -Amanda lose her Makeup bag and production won't replace it -Delta burns rupauls wig leaving her wigless for one episode
Im so sorry mawma but some of Plane's starting placements in this are so wild to me Geneva AND Plasma > Plane in ep 2? Plane in the bottom over Amanda/Plasma/Mirage ep 3?? episode 6 (while I agree plane shouldn't have been in the top) a lot of the branding was off that challenge - Dawn "Woodland elf" in a space costume - Sapphira's matronly gown when she gives me over the top drag excellence - Plane's water fairy when she's a rotted bitch - Q's look also gave me space/alien/rocky vibes which I only got from her fairy tale look (which wasnt a thing to represent her, it was inspired by something else and her flowers look) anyways, regardless of my opinions mama kudos for putting your whole opinion out there. for spilling.
I feel like i wanna dance with somebody was a double shantay worthy lipsync purely because of how morphine and xunami interacted woth each other. Also would nymphia be btm 2 in snatch game if she won the talent show? Because she wouldve had her potion to use to keep her safe
Mama this time the delusion in the unrigging is up to par with the Mayhem Miller edit for the S10 unrigging. Jinkx's pockets must be full for this wholesale in her Delusion fragrance😭 this unrigging is an unfrequent L
I cannot be convinced that Q won vs Amanda and that Sapphira won vs Morphine. Like gurl... Q was missing beats, had slip ups with her moves, just a chop. And Sapphira (as mother as she is) literally microwaved the same moves she already did twice and served them lukewarm... I get why she stayed and I agree, but mama she did not win that. Ms Track Record saving girlies this season
but the moves sapphira re-used worked with the song well and with this being a "lipsync" battle she definitely was better at that aspect than morphine with the song
For me I do think it should come down to the finale for the crown. If the strongest track record always gets the crown, we might as well not do any finale performance or lipsync. If they always picked the best season performer every season, the girls with the worse track records would eventually stop trying because there would be no point. However, if the performance is close I do think it should go down to who did the best in the season. But, Nymphia dominated that lipsync.
someone should make an unrigging the drag detective’s supposed unrigging cause how do you justify putting one queen in the bottom two for a bad outfit and bad challenge but then put dawn in the bottom with q when u said this was ur fav dawn runway and plane’s runway was bad and so was her challenge?! Lmao
I will stand by this I do not think Mhi'ya is a great lip syncer. Consistently between all of her performances it is very clearly telegraphed when she is going to do a trick because it is not mixed in with dancing she thinks of the trick she's going to do and then does it and then just kind of goes on. It doesn't feel like it melds together the tricks and the dancing.
I'm surprised that nobody is talking about the fact that the queens don't write their finale lip sync songs. Production writes and choreographs the songs, the queens might get an opinion for the outfit, but that it. Production didn't want Pane Jane to win, so they gave her an awful song that she couldn't do much with
Glad to see og format back love it and I think you should do riggory series again starting with season 1 because I really want you do an analysis on season 3 riggory
I’m so glad to find someone else disagreed with giving Mya a bottom placement in the snl challenge! I thought she did great!! She was one of the only ones who made me lol
In this scenario, Sapphira would only have two wins right? Since Bathroom Hunties was removed and you gave the power point challeng win to Q and PJ (rightfully so), so you could argue that Nymphia also had a slightly better track record than Sapphira, so it would make sense she'd still win.
Drag Race production loves to make choices that make us scratch our heads... i'm still not over having a lipsync smackdown in Marina Summers vs the World finale if they didn't want to crown Marina... and as you point out in this unrigging, they kept Mhy'ia in the low placement for no apparent reason while building up her soon-to-be lipsync assassin status. Why keep her below safe if you won't make her lipsync already??
i disagree on the Girl Group challenge, in that I think it was set as 'judge by groups' to get Amanda outta there exclusively. I'm sorry, but Geneva & Megami's runways were pretty rough, and Amanda's wig wasn't bad *enough* to merit her performance being completely disregarded for her 'interesting choice' of a runway. I think IF the win went to a person - it'd be Nymphia. And if EVERYONE got asked the 'who should go home' question - it'd have been some combo of Geneva, Q & Amanda - and I think Geneva would have left here.
Amanda’s runway was the golden boot of the season the fact that she walked down the runway with that makeup and those fucken shoes was elimination worthy. The wig was terrible and Amanda does this thing where she almost overdoes the song. Totally fair elimination. And I love the girl but she flopped bad here.
She definitely wasn't ready for the big leagues. A problem we will hit more often, I think, as people aren't getting enough time to practice before ending up on TV
It’s just so wild to me that anyone could think Q did better in the lip sync than Amanda. It is so clearly obvious that she didn’t and the vast majority sees it.
Video: Q should stay over Amanda because of track record. Q should stay over Dawn because of track record. Also video: F*** Plasma's track record, Mhi'ya won
i love how even if you correct the perceived riggory, plane, sapphira and nymphia still monopolized most of the wins of the season lol i LOVE this top 3
Lol, you say you thought Sapphira did the best this season, but unless I did my math wrong and didn't double check right, you actually had Nymphia with the highest dusted/busted score according to the unrigged season. (Granted that's mostly due to removing bathroom hunties, in which case Sapphira is back in front) Nymphia Wind: +8(+9 if we go by your premier rankings) - high in premier (+1), win the ball and girl groups (+4), bottom in snatch game (-2), high in goth, power point and makeover (+3), and a win in the book challenge (+2) Plane Jane: +5(+3 going by your premier rankings) - win premier (+2), low in ball (-1), high in RDR live (+1), win snatch game (+2), low in power (-1), win power point and makeover (+4), and bottom in book challenge (-2) Sapphira: +7 - win premier (+2), high in ball, rusical, and snatch game(+3), win power (+2), high in power point (+1), bottom in makeover (-2), and high again in the book challenge (+1) But like I said, if we kept bathroom hunties and it went similar to how it was on the season, Sapphira overtakes Nymphia again.
If the bathroom challenge was kept. Sapphira would’ve gotten 3 wins and 1 bottom. And Nymphia 4 wins and no bottoms considering she had the immunity potion that she would’ve used on snatch game. Plane Jane would’ve gotten 4 wins and 1 bottom.
@@PureHoneyBoo true, but I elected to ignore the hypothetical use of the potion because there are too many possibilities and they ended up not having much effect anyway. Plus, Sapphira would’ve gotten a +2 boost and assuming Nymphia still places low, she gets a -1 so Sapphira would be in front either way, unless we’re counting Derek’s judging of episodes 1 and 2, then they’d be tied I think.
Mihya did not deserve her high placement in snatch game. I hate when people make up characters (the brief is literally to impersonate celebrities), she wasn’t funny and it felt like the judges congratulated her for doing the bare minimum. It was like when Gothy got a high placement for the Drag Race World in UKVTW2 for slightly coming out of her shell, not for excelling in the challenge. I also thought Mihya lost the lip sync against Plasma. Mihya took off her shoes, took of her wig to reveal… a bald cap? Then rolled and flailed around on the floor for the rest of the song. It was a hot mess. I thought Mihya was a great performer (those flips, come on) but not a great lip syncer. Her performances always came off as messy to me and she was never able to connect with the audience. There’s more to lip syncing than tricks and flips.
Translation: I hate Mhiya so idc what she does, in my opinion, its awful regardless No maam Mhiya did better than Q, Plasma and Dawn in snatch game.. and she absolutely murdered Plasma.
Did you not listen to what he said? Both q and amanda did okay, like no one did that m ugh better so because of that it is only fair thag track record comes into play which would make q the winner! So overall Q winning was really fair!
@@clauu9370 you’re speaking in a way like his opinion is gospel i’m clearly saying i disagree with that ?? no i don’t think they both did ok i think amanda did a decent job and Q done horribly and should have been eliminated
Honestly, I wouldn't say no to a double crowning just because they're now closer in challenge wins and the final lip sync slayage from Nymphia might not hit as hard since we've already seen her lip sync. I know a doubke crowning being filmed this season isn't confirmed and probably never will be, but I do think they at least film those every season these days (except for s15 obviously but who would share a crown with Sasha lmao).
@@pengoschwortz4734The results weren't kept the same though? He literally had Nymphia win the talent show. How would she win it and not get the potion? He should have just skipped it then
I’d argue for Dawns make up in the rdr live challenge in that it’s these queens playing the character and how they interpret it. It’s still them but playing the character in drag. With the show being so comedy heavy I would say that adds to it because it’s ridiculous in itself that someone like Dawn would be a new anchor.
Plane was knocked off the talent show over geneva when she was #1 in ranking?? low over Amanda and Plasma on the BALL?! You disagree with Law Roach on styling doll challenge?! Girllll… 🕵️♂️
The reason Amanda lost the lipsync is she kinda ruined the illusion when she took certain pieces off her costume. I don’t know why fans insist that she won just because she was outdancing Q
Plane is not well rounded. Evidence is in the runways, in the performances and just review the season. Plane is an exceptional comedy queen, that’s where she dominates. She’s also great at padding. But reviewing her looks and performances compared to other queens, especially her other finalists Nymphia and Sapphira, it’s clear she lags behind those two. I also found her make up be underwhelming when you have to compare to top tier MUA queens like Morphine and Nymphia. The good news for PJ is that she is exceptionally well suited for an Allstars season. She has the fundamentals and some raw talent so if she can return with more growth and polish she could shore up any weak points.
Bias against Plane for sure. Bias in favor of Sapphira, she lost that Morphine Lipsync if we're really unrigging the season. Amanda won the lip-sync but would eventually be eliminated. Still, let's stay unbiased.
Not sure why everyone thinks that the top two in episode two would have be Nymphia and Geneva. When they saw the list it was Plane, Geneva, than Nymphia. Plane voting Nymphia low pushed her to third where Geneva would have been. Since Plane was number one someone else would have to pull a stunt to lower her placement, so the top two of the episode without the stunt would have been Plane and Nymphia. Love your videos ❤
Exactly. The Rate a queen twist was fair, Plane ranking Nymphia as low was fair. I know there's no such thing as "unrigging" but not making Plane top2 makes no sense to me.
Q winning came down to her track record cuz in the lipsync both her and amanda did equally okay so it's only fair to give the win to the queen with the best track record and that would be q
@@clauu9370 she did not do aswell as Amanda in the lipsync though. Amanda pulled out some good moves and Q looked like the robot she was described as the whole season.
Q vs Dawn to Made Ya look would probably be so awful and unwatchable but I’m lowkey living for it
people say Q is the worst lipsyncer when its honestly Dawn.....i feel like Q wouldnt win but Dawn would somehow still lsoe LMFAO
@@ohandthefrackingI feel the same way honestly. Is Q a bad lip syncer ? Sure. But at least you can see she tries to give a performance. Both times we’ve seen Dawn lip sync, she just gave up and didn’t even know all the words.
@@maximeminassian6002 Dawn in Body was Charlie Hides in I Wanna Go tease.....
Dawn definitely has a niche, because in girl groups to her own lyrics she was pretty good. Very witch energy, also both times she lipsynced she knew she wasn’t winning. You’re going to tell me I should be trying against Morphine to BODY??? Hunny she did more than I would, at least she was trying to be sexy.
Double sashay away I fear
I think your unrigging balances things out because: if you put Nymphia in the top for the talent show, then she absolutely uses her potion for Snatch Game, and that can be her character arc. Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.
Here's how Mirage can still win
She actually comes back at finale 6, wins the next 3 challenges, slays her lip top 3 lip sync, makes top 2 where she does an even better lip sync, and finally wins.
@@Burnttoaashe Also Sapphira Nymphia Plane and Morphine mysteriously dissapear
@@rogelio9225 actually the cast disappeared
@@BurnttoaasheSerena chacha replaces them all, as an individual. And she takes the crown after scamming the audience with her wigs
@@Burnttoaasheshe also does gravity defying moves on the main stage of the finale 🤩
It’d be fun if you did a “least rigged to most rigged season ranking” video!
mama kuddos for thinking that, for commenting
Yes need this asap
Global All Stars, Drag Race Spain season 3, Drag Race Holland season 2 and US All Stars season 7 would be tied in the number 1 spot
Kudos for unrigging mama. For producing
Pre-video predictions:
-Hershii wins 😍
-Plane Jane miss congeniality 😜
-Nymphia wins snatch game 🍌
-Q wins girl groups (as she should!) 😇
and amanda also wins the ball 😍
Did you flush your meds again?
Nah unless Mayhem is in the predictions, I don't want it
you forgot Megami winning Talent Show 🥳
Mayhem comes in as a surprise 15th Contestant and wins
Before watching I expect a top 5 of: Nymphia, sapphira, Morphine, Mirage and mayhem miller
And Salina Estitties
And Yuhua Hamasaki
Don't forget kylie
and scarlet envy
biblegirl
Mama kudos for Unrigging that, for analysing ❤
Mama kudos for investigating, for speculating
I don't speak English and i don't understand the "kudos" joke 😢
@@GeovannyJoestar i gotchu! Plane Jane said to Q “Kudos for saying that, for spilling” as a way to compliment her bravery. Kudos is a word used that means “well done or “ well said “. People are memeing it now with random things😊
@@bugginonthewallmama, kudos for explaining that. For helping.
@@bugginonthewallMama kudos for explaining that. For including
If nymphia wins the second episode then she would probably use her immunity on the snatch game so i think the result would be the same 🤷♀️
@PedroHernandez-qh8ci o tru
Ngl, I was expecting for Megami to get pushed to the finale like Salina was in last years unrigging video,
tbh seeing what she's posted on twt it looks like Megami could've had a really strong run, and really shouldn't have been in the bottom for the rusical imo
@@yep991it's just unfortunate honestly, she worked her ass off and q got praised and a high placement for walking around 🧍♂️.
It should've been morphine vs mhiya here and mhiya got sent packing imo.
@@yep991 Agreed it shouldve been Dawn and Mhiya in the bottom, Megami wouldve done good in the funk verse challenge and probably the other design challenge she can sew really well
Ms. Estitties getting placed all the way in the finale last year fit very well in my fantasy.
I knew the comments saying it was ridiculous but I didn’t even care I loved it😂😂
@@rogelio9225dawn in the bottom on the flowers runway??? Girl no way that look was sickening!!!
Dawn over Nymphia in the Goth challenge. Choices.
This doesnt feel very unrigged, more like, alternate rigged universe
yeah megami high in the doll challenge and q beating amanda in a lip sync is insane
@@leytonjackson354Also the Lalaparuza, I think Plasma was the clear winner in that 3way lip sync against Mhiya and Xunami.
3:07 "has what like almost 10 million streams now on Spotify" *only has 5 million streams*
He didn't go to school for math, clearly.
✨ manifesting ✨
he's a time traveller lol
He learned rounding ✨ he's trying
baby we ROUND UP for our queens!! Nymphia has a million followers on Instagram now, I will live in the delulu
I actually loved Nymphia’s Power verse.. it got super stuck in my head
Don’t. Ban. My. Beauty.
Btw Plane was at the top of the ranking from group 2 so if Plane didnt mess with the rate a queen she would have either stayed 1st or been second not been knocked out the top 2
He said that that these ratings were just him ‘unrigging’ it as if it was chosen by the judges but he clearly put his personal opinions in it because Plane Jane was very clearly a Top 2 contender
Mama I know you didn't put Plane low in the ball when we had Mirage and Amanda as options, kudos for choosing that
Plane’s octomom look was lazy and her designed look was egregious, but I agree Amanda def should have been low lmfao.
tbf the LOW placement for the ball was really quite nitpicky, several queens could have had BUT not Mhiya for sure
Plane’s was pretty horrifically constructed. Her or Amanda could have been low imo
I would add Plasma to the list of potential lows. That Tweedle-Dee look… yikes
Also pushed out of top in doll challenge because she's not branding enough while keeping fairy Q and astronaut Dawn there. And putting her bellow top 2 in episode 1 despite Geneva having less points than her to begin with. Skipping episode she won. I mean, it's still interesting to watch but it's still riggory, just different xd
i had truly been holding on to hope that plane could win the season, but the last straw was that she deliberately chose not to be vulnerable in the book challenge, which surprised me a lot because she always knew exactly what needed to be given at all times, whereas with nymphia i literally cried with her interview (and when she won) and it made me root for her instead of plane (especially with that bodysuit song which, again, left us not knowing who she truly is)
So basically what you’re saying is you hate Sapphira and want her to quit drag?
⁽ᵗʰⁱˢ ⁱˢ ˢᵃʳᶜᵃˢᵐ⁾
@@Boss-cj6zn lolll i liked sapphira but idk there was something about her that always seemed so perfectly rehearsed, you always knew what you were going to get from her, and those dancing biscuits sure didn’t help 😅🫢😂 and as for her finale performance, there was nothing that felt fresh or new, she “”only”” did an outfit and wig reveal (i’m choosing to leave the vampire fangs out bc it didn’t go anywhere 😶), and while nymphia did that too, she brought new elements (the boba balloons, the cartwheel reveal) and sapphira’s gags felt underwhelming
In my fantasy, Plane made those choices deliberately cause she didn’t want to win the season. Mama was producing her All stars storyline nyaas
Granted, most of the time the queens don’t write their finale songs themselves (whereas plane sent in a demo of hers) which just goes to show that Plane didn’t do as good of a job as the professional writers. No shade to her, just something to consider
the hate for plane jane in the first episodes lmao
Living in a world without Morphine doing Body is the wrong universe 😂
Top 2 for episode 2 would 100% be Plane and Nymphia. Production didn't see Geneva as a competitor in the long run and wouldn't waste a top 2 placement with her
yeah the delusion that geneva was the #1 position of that top 3
He did it based on the overall reception (and his opinion) to Planes performance vs Geneva’s. Genevas was more well liked. I lived for Burger Finger personally, but yk 😭🤷🏼♂️
I can barely remember any of the talent shows other than Sapphira, Q, Plane Jane, and Nymphia.
And Mirage💀 atleast it would be hard to forget dince the soundwent viral LMAO
Boba Balls is what they should definitely be called. They’re Boba Pearls.
Respectfully as someone who used to blindly hate on plane, the placement shifts you gave her remind me of that old thought process
the talent show is a branding challenge, plane out of anyone in that episode was able to show her brand and personality to the judges, audience and in her performance + runway
these ball critiques are so wild as well because there’s legitimately 3 other options for that low spot that make more sense than plane (plasma mirage and amanda)
and if you wanted to highlight megami for the design challenge i’d either just have another top placement or swapped dawn out because of her ripped unhemmed head piece
@Nate-ht4se i had to take a step back and realize i just didn’t like her when i convinced myself she should’ve been in the bottom for girl groups 😭😭 plane hater delusion will take you to crazy places because she killed courage to love
I agree on everything except the doll design challenge. You claim she should win talent show because it’s branding, but the doll design challenge was the main branding challenge of the season. While I think Dawn still had a weaker execution than Megami, what saved her was the branding. The whole Aqua thing Plane did made no sense, and I don’t think she’s ever branded herself like that since. She had the opportunity to go for like a Russian Princess or maybe even a fast food employee doll to reference her Burger Finger performance.
@@psio4213 yea i can definitely say that the design challenge is the most wishy-washy of her placements especially with the branding element to it, the reason why i agree with her top tho is the actual garment and how it translated and looked on the doll, definitely comes down to a matter of opinion though (especially because there was like 3 components to that challenge and the judges never judged them consistently for anyone) but i totally understand what you’re saying and if they laid out the rules for that challenge better i’d probably put megami and dawn in the top
@@psio4213 also russian princess would’ve been so cute
@@aiden8502 Heavy agree on the last part of your comment, about the rules needing to be laid out. There’s so much discourse around the new challenges they introduced because there isn’t really anything to base the judging off of. While I presumed the doll design challenge was branding (since that’s what they made it out to be), they could go forward & continue to prioritize the actual garment when they reuse this challenge.
i feel like nymphia would have used her immunity potion in this unrigged world on snatch game
Your videos coming out during my daughter’s nap times are everything. Excuse me while I smoke my blunt & indulge.
mother is mothering..
yo'rea terrible parent
@@Elemenopi69 yikes.
@@Elemenopi69😂😂😂😂
@@Elemenopi69clearly your parents are terrible since they didn’t teach you to spell your correct
Plane Jane low on the ball? With Plasma being there? Sure, go for It :P
38:30 Actually, in this timeline, Nymphia had The best trackrecord. Since Nymphia now wins the Talent Show, the Bathroom Challenge was CUT and the PowerPoint presentation win was handed to Team Plane: Nymphia having 4 wins/1 btm, to Saphira's 3 wins/1 btm.
You could actually argue that Nymphia Win both The competition AND the Lipsync xD
Nymphia would have no bottoms since she would use the immunity potion and Sapphira would get only 2 wins if the bathroom challenge was cut.
*Insert Mayhem Miller wins joke here*
We need an unrigging of the unrigging of drag race season 16 immediately! 😭😭😭
I feel like I'm being gaslit into thinking Q did well in that rusical. I would have put morphine high and q low
EXACTLY q walked around
Not morphine. Her role sucked. I put plane in
That's because she was quite good! Like it was not the best but I do think it was fun and I really enjoyed her performance
Yes, Morphine in the top! My bestie and I were THRILLED watching Morphine in the Rusical living her best life, hitting every beat and bringing so much joy and spirit into her moves… so when she was placed low, we were left gasping. The final dagger to the back was Q being in the top when we thought she was gonna be bottom 2. 😬
I got so excited I dropped my baby. But who cares cuz the unrigging of season 16 is here!!!
thoughts and prayers
It just means your baby will grow up with more character ❤️ brain damage makes for interesting people
@taxevasion249she’s finna be crying in untucked when she’s safe
Really just here for more outside confirmation that Sapphira did not deserve that Corporate Queen win. Though the Q reaction afterwards was pretty amazing, but with the edit we got, that double win made the most sense.
Damn Plane is your new Gigi
as she should be
I wasn’t ready for the Plane Jane hate video 😂
ngl, i'm sensing little bias against PJ xd
how?? he left her as the winner for the makeover which is probably the biggest absurdity of all. Plane's fans are crazy.
15:03 somehow I KNEW Megami was going to get shoe-horned into the high placement LMAO
I’m a Plane Stan but Megami should have absolutely been there, she nailed the challenge
@@shookistheblaine8521 Megami did well but not better than Nymphia
@@pengoschwortz4734 Nymphia’s doll looked nothing like Nymphia
@@shookistheblaine8521The only difference was that the doll's bow wasn't purple
0:35 obsessed with you saying you’ll be as subjective as possible 😭
Love Megami but like 75% of her doll outfit beauty was that stunning fabric.
like q…
Exactly 😭 and the placement of the random orange things was not cute. Nymphia and Plane were both better.
@@chuuedup_ They both lacked branding, which was the main point of the challenge. The reason why a lot of people feel as though Megami deserved a high placement was because she executed the branding part of the challenge excellently while still looking really good.
I had a problem with the entire body being the same fabric. It ended up looking like nothing. Also branding yourself as new York by dressing up as new York is not branding yourself.
@@psio4213 Yeah I see that but I don’t fully agree that they lacked branding tho. Plane’s was a bodysuit and Nymphia’s was yellow. Megami’s was just New York so I don’t think that’s much better. And the look itself was worse.
Not plane Jane out of the top 2 on second episode…. 😭😭😭😭😭
I think he’s forgetting how STUNNING Nymphia’s runway was for Dancing Queen (Snatch Game) while Morphine wore a Halloween costume. That’s why Nymphia was saved. RUNWAYS MATTER (sometimes)
Runways should not matter when you performed the worst, imo. Nymphia's performance was horrendous 😍
@@witherton8340she was second worst after xunami, while nymphia had THE BEST runway of the episode.
@@vstoneman she was still atrocious is snatch game. Her and Xunami were leagues worse than everyone else. Morphine wasn’t great but to place her in the bottom solely because Nymphia’s runway was better was straight up favoritism towards Nymphia.
@@maximeminassian6002 Nymphia did have the best runway of the week. But morphine was only a little better than nymphia, enough to where Nymphia's runway fills the gap and then some. Also, I think it was productions way of apologizing for nymphia not winning the talent when she was the clear winner.
@@vstoneman Morphine really wasn’t just “a little better” than Nymphia. She was clearly better and at least had the decency to let Ru talk (something Nymphia didn’t). I honestly think Morphine could’ve even been swapped in the bottom with Dawn (who was just playing herself and got no screen time). And what is this bs about production apologizing ? Nymphia didn’t win the talent show because Plane played the game smart, production had nothing to apologize for. Nymphia also could’ve/should’ve been in the bottom for the rusical (she missed many of the words which they clearly tried to hide in the edit) and the bathroom challenge (she needed to calm down and let Dawn speak, and their bathroom presentation was clearly worse than Q and Morphine’s).
Plane definitely deserved top 2 over Geneva and deserved high in the doll challenge also Q’s Goth look was NOT goth. Nymphia Should’ve won
The challenge was literally an homage to Wednesday. I don’t know how Nymphia didn’t win considering she was literally giving Morticia Adams
Plane was the third best period
Goth Fashion isn’t set & stone. It is incredibly nuanced as it is not a fashion based sub-culture. I am a Q disliker through & through, but her look was the best crafted of the night. I do agree on the talent show however.
@@psio4213 it was good but if wasn’t giving goth
@@basic_battle But she was. Goth (as stated previously) is not a fashion based culture. However, it has birthed tons of sub-cultures such as traditional goth, Victorian goth, etc. which do come with their own unique aesthetics. Q’s look specifically was incredibly reminiscent of Neo Goth fashion with a more elevated-runway twist, which I think is more than fine considering none of these queens seemed to have too much knowledge on what goth was. There is no set & stone image for what Goth fashion is, as Goth is way too big of an umbrella term in this scenario.
Jesus, tell me you’re a Plane Jane Opp without telling me you’re a Plane Jane Opp.
Plane Jane being low in the ball and not Plasma or Amanda is insane to me 😭
crazy 😂
calling plasmas strawberry shortcake look “second best if not the best of the night” is CRAZZZYYYYY. derek ily but this was a rare miss
agreed 😂😂
It was tho, like every fashion person (ex: Raja and Raven) agreed it was one of if not the best of the night
@@armanroyai6601You’re not helping your case by saying Raven & Raja disliked it.
They liked it actually roll the footage @Inki_Inc
@@Inki_Inc??? they said raja and raven liked it??
Everything is correct but nymphia would have used her immunity in snatchgame
Mama thanks for giving Q 3 wins, for giving us clips and slides
Why didnt you use the immunity on nymphia where she would have most definitely used it on snatch game?
i don't think plane would have given it to her tho. her giving nymphia the potion was heavily influenced by the potion's expiration. she kept the potion for herself until the last second, and she realized she didn't need it, so she used it on nymphia.
but either way, derek gave nymphia the win in the lipsync so it wouldn't have mattered
@@m_milos but in this alternative world nymphia wins her premiere talent show and wins immunity?
my pre-prediction:
-Mayhem miller returns to competes and goes home that same episode
-JuJubee returns mid-season as guest judge and compete for 1 episode but leaves for drag race Antarica
-Q RCTA Arc
-Sherry Pie Cameo Race
-Amanda lose her Makeup bag and production won't replace it
-Delta burns rupauls wig leaving her wigless for one episode
U can’t cut the bathroom episode and leave us without the morphine obliterating dawn to Megan thee stallion lipsync
Im so sorry mawma but some of Plane's starting placements in this are so wild to me
Geneva AND Plasma > Plane in ep 2?
Plane in the bottom over Amanda/Plasma/Mirage ep 3??
episode 6 (while I agree plane shouldn't have been in the top) a lot of the branding was off that challenge
- Dawn "Woodland elf" in a space costume
- Sapphira's matronly gown when she gives me over the top drag excellence
- Plane's water fairy when she's a rotted bitch
- Q's look also gave me space/alien/rocky vibes which I only got from her fairy tale look (which wasnt a thing to represent her, it was inspired by something else and her flowers look)
anyways, regardless of my opinions mama kudos for putting your whole opinion out there. for spilling.
genevas talent was def better than planes, its just that yall gag over anything these days
megami on top on doll design is soooo right omg i rlly thought she deversed the top when i was watching
I feel like i wanna dance with somebody was a double shantay worthy lipsync purely because of how morphine and xunami interacted woth each other. Also would nymphia be btm 2 in snatch game if she won the talent show? Because she wouldve had her potion to use to keep her safe
Putting Plane low in the design challenge instead of Mhi'ya is crazy
not really
@@fresitaaleplane’s was way more polished and she made it herself
Mama this time the delusion in the unrigging is up to par with the Mayhem Miller edit for the S10 unrigging.
Jinkx's pockets must be full for this wholesale in her Delusion fragrance😭 this unrigging is an unfrequent L
aometimes iput my hand over my phone speaker and pretendthat youre talking to me underwater and i haveto save you from the depths
Tell me you hate Plane Jane without telling me that you hate Plane Jane 🤦🏻♂️
I cannot be convinced that Q won vs Amanda and that Sapphira won vs Morphine. Like gurl... Q was missing beats, had slip ups with her moves, just a chop. And Sapphira (as mother as she is) literally microwaved the same moves she already did twice and served them lukewarm... I get why she stayed and I agree, but mama she did not win that. Ms Track Record saving girlies this season
but the moves sapphira re-used worked with the song well and with this being a "lipsync" battle she definitely was better at that aspect than morphine with the song
Yess!! Amanda DESTROYED Q so idk how anyone can seriously think she won that lipsync.
For me I do think it should come down to the finale for the crown. If the strongest track record always gets the crown, we might as well not do any finale performance or lipsync. If they always picked the best season performer every season, the girls with the worse track records would eventually stop trying because there would be no point.
However, if the performance is close I do think it should go down to who did the best in the season. But, Nymphia dominated that lipsync.
the fact that mayhem miller didnt win in this version is insane!
someone should make an unrigging the drag detective’s supposed unrigging cause how do you justify putting one queen in the bottom two for a bad outfit and bad challenge but then put dawn in the bottom with q when u said this was ur fav dawn runway and plane’s runway was bad and so was her challenge?! Lmao
I will stand by this I do not think Mhi'ya is a great lip syncer. Consistently between all of her performances it is very clearly telegraphed when she is going to do a trick because it is not mixed in with dancing she thinks of the trick she's going to do and then does it and then just kind of goes on. It doesn't feel like it melds together the tricks and the dancing.
Yeah I think that’s what turned me off of her is her ego with her relying on a lot of tricks
Her emotion was good tho
Wow I can't believe the unrigging allowed Mayhem to win yet another season!
I'm surprised that nobody is talking about the fact that the queens don't write their finale lip sync songs. Production writes and choreographs the songs, the queens might get an opinion for the outfit, but that it. Production didn't want Pane Jane to win, so they gave her an awful song that she couldn't do much with
Glad to see og format back love it and I think you should do riggory series again starting with season 1 because I really want you do an analysis on season 3 riggory
Mama, when I say that I get up and break it down to your little intro, kudos to you, for boppin'
I’m so glad to find someone else disagreed with giving Mya a bottom placement in the snl challenge! I thought she did great!! She was one of the only ones who made me lol
In this scenario, Sapphira would only have two wins right? Since Bathroom Hunties was removed and you gave the power point challeng win to Q and PJ (rightfully so), so you could argue that Nymphia also had a slightly better track record than Sapphira, so it would make sense she'd still win.
Drag Race production loves to make choices that make us scratch our heads... i'm still not over having a lipsync smackdown in Marina Summers vs the World finale if they didn't want to crown Marina... and as you point out in this unrigging, they kept Mhy'ia in the low placement for no apparent reason while building up her soon-to-be lipsync assassin status. Why keep her below safe if you won't make her lipsync already??
Plane low for the ball was wild, I thought Amanda should have taken it
i disagree on the Girl Group challenge, in that I think it was set as 'judge by groups' to get Amanda outta there exclusively. I'm sorry, but Geneva & Megami's runways were pretty rough, and Amanda's wig wasn't bad *enough* to merit her performance being completely disregarded for her 'interesting choice' of a runway.
I think IF the win went to a person - it'd be Nymphia. And if EVERYONE got asked the 'who should go home' question - it'd have been some combo of Geneva, Q & Amanda - and I think Geneva would have left here.
Amanda’s runway was the golden boot of the season the fact that she walked down the runway with that makeup and those fucken shoes was elimination worthy. The wig was terrible and Amanda does this thing where she almost overdoes the song. Totally fair elimination. And I love the girl but she flopped bad here.
She definitely wasn't ready for the big leagues. A problem we will hit more often, I think, as people aren't getting enough time to practice before ending up on TV
The thumbnail is genius
didn't notice MeGAGmi hand puppet at first 😂
putting megami in the top over nymphia in the doll design challenge is seriously criminal 😵💫
It’s just so wild to me that anyone could think Q did better in the lip sync than Amanda. It is so clearly obvious that she didn’t and the vast majority sees it.
Unpopular snatch game opinion - I wasn’t that impressed by maya and I didn’t think nymphia was as bad as everyone says
It was so cringe to watch…
Video: Q should stay over Amanda because of track record. Q should stay over Dawn because of track record. Also video: F*** Plasma's track record, Mhi'ya won
at least it felt close between q and amanda... mhi'ya destroyed plasma in the lipsync
i love how even if you correct the perceived riggory, plane, sapphira and nymphia still monopolized most of the wins of the season lol i LOVE this top 3
Lol, you say you thought Sapphira did the best this season, but unless I did my math wrong and didn't double check right, you actually had Nymphia with the highest dusted/busted score according to the unrigged season. (Granted that's mostly due to removing bathroom hunties, in which case Sapphira is back in front)
Nymphia Wind: +8(+9 if we go by your premier rankings) - high in premier (+1), win the ball and girl groups (+4), bottom in snatch game (-2), high in goth, power point and makeover (+3), and a win in the book challenge (+2)
Plane Jane: +5(+3 going by your premier rankings) - win premier (+2), low in ball (-1), high in RDR live (+1), win snatch game (+2), low in power (-1), win power point and makeover (+4), and bottom in book challenge (-2)
Sapphira: +7 - win premier (+2), high in ball, rusical, and snatch game(+3), win power (+2), high in power point (+1), bottom in makeover (-2), and high again in the book challenge (+1)
But like I said, if we kept bathroom hunties and it went similar to how it was on the season, Sapphira overtakes Nymphia again.
If the bathroom challenge was kept. Sapphira would’ve gotten 3 wins and 1 bottom. And Nymphia 4 wins and no bottoms considering she had the immunity potion that she would’ve used on snatch game. Plane Jane would’ve gotten 4 wins and 1 bottom.
@@PureHoneyBoo true, but I elected to ignore the hypothetical use of the potion because there are too many possibilities and they ended up not having much effect anyway. Plus, Sapphira would’ve gotten a +2 boost and assuming Nymphia still places low, she gets a -1 so Sapphira would be in front either way, unless we’re counting Derek’s judging of episodes 1 and 2, then they’d be tied I think.
I am okay with the rigging. Because your universe has no Body lipsynch
Mihya did not deserve her high placement in snatch game. I hate when people make up characters (the brief is literally to impersonate celebrities), she wasn’t funny and it felt like the judges congratulated her for doing the bare minimum. It was like when Gothy got a high placement for the Drag Race World in UKVTW2 for slightly coming out of her shell, not for excelling in the challenge.
I also thought Mihya lost the lip sync against Plasma. Mihya took off her shoes, took of her wig to reveal… a bald cap? Then rolled and flailed around on the floor for the rest of the song. It was a hot mess. I thought Mihya was a great performer (those flips, come on) but not a great lip syncer. Her performances always came off as messy to me and she was never able to connect with the audience. There’s more to lip syncing than tricks and flips.
Translation: I hate Mhiya so idc what she does, in my opinion, its awful regardless
No maam Mhiya did better than Q, Plasma and Dawn in snatch game.. and she absolutely murdered Plasma.
Drag Race Fans really HATE positivity in this show 😭😭😭
ISTG HAHAHA I KINDA MISS SEASON 5 WHERE LITERALLY EVERYONE HATE EACH OTHER AFF 😆😆
Q did a TERRIBLE job in her lypsync against Amanda and stayed, yet when it was plasma then it’s not excused
Plasma lost a lot. Q lost a little.
I know you did not put Plane Jane in the bottom for the ball and not Amanda 💀
RIGHTTT amanda was so bad (but i'm glad she stayed at least)
If i can be dawnest i think amanda was fine
plane bottom 3 on mother ball over amanda is crazy lol
i just genuinely have no idea how u can think Q beat Amanda in that lip sync
Did you not listen to what he said? Both q and amanda did okay, like no one did that m ugh better so because of that it is only fair thag track record comes into play which would make q the winner! So overall Q winning was really fair!
@@clauu9370 you’re speaking in a way like his opinion is gospel i’m clearly saying i disagree with that ?? no i don’t think they both did ok i think amanda did a decent job and Q done horribly and should have been eliminated
Honestly, I wouldn't say no to a double crowning just because they're now closer in challenge wins and the final lip sync slayage from Nymphia might not hit as hard since we've already seen her lip sync.
I know a doubke crowning being filmed this season isn't confirmed and probably never will be, but I do think they at least film those every season these days (except for s15 obviously but who would share a crown with Sasha lmao).
So Nymphia's Potion just disappeared?
When did she have one? It was stated VERY clearly that the results of the premieres would be kept the same
@@pengoschwortz4734The results weren't kept the same though? He literally had Nymphia win the talent show. How would she win it and not get the potion? He should have just skipped it then
What is with the gaslighting that Q did good in her lip sync against Amanda??
I’d argue for Dawns make up in the rdr live challenge in that it’s these queens playing the character and how they interpret it. It’s still them but playing the character in drag. With the show being so comedy heavy I would say that adds to it because it’s ridiculous in itself that someone like Dawn would be a new anchor.
Plane was knocked off the talent show over geneva when she was #1 in ranking?? low over Amanda and Plasma on the BALL?! You disagree with Law Roach on styling doll challenge?! Girllll… 🕵️♂️
The reason Amanda lost the lipsync is she kinda ruined the illusion when she took certain pieces off her costume. I don’t know why fans insist that she won just because she was outdancing Q
I would’ve given the doll challenge high placement to xunami instead of megami but I agree it was weird that PJ was in the top
Plane being low and dawn being bottom 2 is crazy😭😭😭dawn had a better verse, runway and pulled the choreo off better like what do you mean💀
If you don’t get Plane just say thattttt…like Geneva over Plane ep 2? pls
plane is mid deal with it
@elvangulley3210 show some evidence to support that then. Your weird unnecessary bias isnt proof btw.
Plane is not well rounded. Evidence is in the runways, in the performances and just review the season.
Plane is an exceptional comedy queen, that’s where she dominates. She’s also great at padding.
But reviewing her looks and performances compared to other queens, especially her other finalists Nymphia and Sapphira, it’s clear she lags behind those two.
I also found her make up be underwhelming when you have to compare to top tier MUA queens like Morphine and Nymphia.
The good news for PJ is that she is exceptionally well suited for an Allstars season. She has the fundamentals and some raw talent so if she can return with more growth and polish she could shore up any weak points.
Like, Plane was #1. her voting didn’t knock Nymphia from 1 to 3. the math isn’t mathing… 😂
Gia walked to Plane can burger finger
stopped watching as soon as you said q won the lipsync against amanda like girl what are you on? rupaul's d?
plasma definitely did the third worst in the mother ball
I clicked on the video so fast we already have All Stars 10, Global All Stars 2 and Season 18
Bias against Plane for sure. Bias in favor of Sapphira, she lost that Morphine Lipsync if we're really unrigging the season. Amanda won the lip-sync but would eventually be eliminated. Still, let's stay unbiased.
If you wanted to keep a double safe, you could have done a Dela in season six moment and kept Plasma
Not sure why everyone thinks that the top two in episode two would have be Nymphia and Geneva. When they saw the list it was Plane, Geneva, than Nymphia. Plane voting Nymphia low pushed her to third where Geneva would have been. Since Plane was number one someone else would have to pull a stunt to lower her placement, so the top two of the episode without the stunt would have been Plane and Nymphia.
Love your videos ❤
Exactly. The Rate a queen twist was fair, Plane ranking Nymphia as low was fair. I know there's no such thing as "unrigging" but not making Plane top2 makes no sense to me.
No way you thought Q did better in the lipsync than Amanda!!
Q winning came down to her track record cuz in the lipsync both her and amanda did equally okay so it's only fair to give the win to the queen with the best track record and that would be q
@@clauu9370 she did not do aswell as Amanda in the lipsync though. Amanda pulled out some good moves and Q looked like the robot she was described as the whole season.
@@schmokmok69 I don't think so, I thought they were both okay