Easier Machining Using the Incremental Mode on your DRO
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- Many of us with DRO's rarely switch over to the incremental mode. Once you see the benefits and possible applications of using it, I bet you use it more often. Take a Look !!
While I'm still a relatively new hobbyist machinist, I've had a low priced dro on my little lathe for 8 years or so with abs and inc capabilities and have never really understood how to use the features or even understand their value. I now know! Thank you, you have a talent for explaining things well.
Just don't forget to return it to the correct mode after use, or things can really get interesting.
Every once in awhile I have a home project to use my old Bridgeport mill. I installed a DRO on the mill a couple of years ago and recalled this video and made my work so much easier. Thanks for your time and videos once again!
My pleasure
It can be used also for two operations in two separate vises so you can run multiple parts that require multiple ops e.g. blind holes on the top and bottom of the parts. This two zero points allows you to complete one side of your part flip it over to your second vise switch the dro over to your second zero point and complete your second op. It can also be used when you have a super spacer setup alongside a vise. It’s basically saving your indicated center of the super spacer while you use the vice for something else.
Makes sense...all I need now is a milling machine.
Colin Pendlebury… Don't forget the DRO :)
And the tooling. OMG the tooling...
@@ttabbal And when added up, the mill turns out to be the cheap part .
Keep them coming Joe! I have had numerous question but never want to bug you with them in an email. I usually find that after a while, you post a video on the topic I have questions about. By the way, I did my first grinding job on my milling machine using your technique (a motor shaft that needed a very precise flat for a pump impeller alignment for work) and it worked a treat. Thank you for all you do!
Joe I feel like I am back in school again, you are helping to wakeup my 70 year old brain. Looking forward to reviewing all your videos. Thanks BB
2 years down the line, but thank you Joe that's helped me to understand this.
Thanks Joe;
I've been using manual machines for so long, and never had a "real" DRO, but I get this. It's like remembering where "home base" is when you are doing a hole pattern or finding corners using just the dials. Someday, if I get a DRO before I die, I"m gonna forget all about taking up backlash, which I have been doing for the last three decades. That will be a wonderful day!
I always appreciate your vids. Thanks again!
Dean
Thanks Dean. A DRO will spoil you.
What a great tip for making pockets and windows.
Thank you! Short, simple, and to the point as always!!
Once again, good stuff Joe. Keep 'em' coming .Your a great mentor! - ( That 30 year engineer )
More to come!
Great quick tip, Joe. I use incremental when I have multiple features with one setup - as you noted, this makes keeping track of what you are doing a lot easier.
Thanks Joe, I knew the feature was there, but never quite new why:) Thanks for taking the time to (succinctly) point out what must be obvious to many, so the rest of us can up our game👍
If you have several holes to drill you can find your absolute position and use the incremental mode to step to each location. After you drill the first hole switch to incremental and then move the distance to the next hole and so on and so on and keep zeroing the incremental mode. You can check yourself by going back to ABS mode
I once was using a Webster & Bennett borer that could only hold one program , but had to do nine different bore sizes on a production line. We started the program from a start block ( N100-N900 ) that had a jump to command then M30. The middle of the program started at block N1000 had the main coordinate of each bore then another M30, it then called blocks (N4000 N6000 N8000 )at the end of the program that had the main features( top chamfer , bottom radius, and mid bore oil groove) all of these features was programmed in incremental. this allowed us to use one program to quickly do nine different bore sizes on a production line.
I thought this was very clever
Thank you so much for this tip, you definitely made it very simple.
Thank you. as a beginner, I’ll be implementing this tomorrow!
Its very handy.
On my Shumatech DRO, bolt hole circles, rounded corners, really anything that programtically moves the cutter around the work pushes the machine into incremental mode. Yes my DRO was a DIY kit, not sure if it is still available, but it works great for my needs and it was priced very reasonably for the hobby user market. Had lathe and mill programming and up to 5 inputs for cheap capacitive scales or glass scales plus the fifth could be a tacho. One of my favorite uses is cutting large circular features by overlapping bolt holes (up to 99 holes). Made a lot of circles bigger than I can fit in my little rotary table chuck this way. Might be considered crude by real machinists, but I get a lot of work done this way.
Hey I appreciate your content. I have been trying to tell people about this for years. Best tool ever invented! Great job. Just noticed, boy I need a haircut!!!!!
A couple of people mentioned that you can find the pocket center and zero ABS there. And they are right. However, consider a slightly more complex example with another pocket to the right of the one Joe used. Now you could use the difference from the centers and zero in the new pocket. But if you use INC, you can work the first with INC, switch back to ABS, find the center of the second pocket using the original zero, INC zero, and make the second pocket.
Now consider that you might have other features based on the original zero. Being able to use a separate zero is handy.
I recently did a project (AXA toolholders) that requires 5 holes drilled and tapped on 6 identical parts. I found each hole, set them to zero in the SDM mode (lots of INC slots, really for tool offsets) and now I could just switch to each number, move to zero, work and repeat.
Very nice. I always learn something new from you. I probably use 10% of the features in my DRO.
There is so much these things can do the mind boggles... PCD, linear, 1/2 function (love this) corner radius and like you have mentioned Abs n Inc and I know there are a lot more that I cant think of @ the min. TFS Joe. G :)
Great stuff Joe. I use mostly reground end mills so I use the incremental mode regularly. As I change features and cutter radius I always have absolute mode so as not having to touch off again as I flip and rotate part(s). Recently made a few sets of soft jaws, 3 sets for large, medium, and small diameters. Used the incremental mode as I had seen a resent video of yours where you just casually mentioned this feature. The light came on, and another valuable tool added to my kit. Thanks Joe!
I'm in the home shop, never took the time to learn about inc mode just ran with what seemed the simplest. I will be using the inc mode when benifishal from now on.
I set up 2 table mounted work stops, 1 each side of the vise, and set zero with ABS and INC respectively. Then I can make symmetrically opposite details more efficiently, pull L.H. part out, place R.H. part in and perform each operation. I seem to get a lot of jobs making Sym. Opp. details.
Also, back in early seventies I ran mills with dro's with no features. Only absolute. Late 70's started running only NC lathes. My mill work was confined to repair and fixture modifications. Never had time for the features to be studied up on. I have a mill now with a current dro and dro manual. The translation is a little confusing but so far as I've added as needed the dro features available. Pretty good for an old dog! Lol
I really enjoy your videos Joe. I would love to see some examples of using the tilt and nod on a mill. Generally you always want to set the part at an angle (not the machine) for obvious reasons. Also I never see anyone mention tramming the turret in before using the tilt or nod.
You can also use incremental mode temporarily zeroed at top left to find the center. From top left move to bottom right and use the half function. No math required.
Thx alot Joe very helpful info since I had to do 2 radius on the rotary table with different points on both it was easy to pick up the zero point on both of them using the incremental and absolute
I have a lot of positioning videos for the rotary table. You should check them out. the trunion strap video is a good one. Can I interest you in an alignment pin ?? ( website )
@@joepie221 To late I bought one from you already n it works like a charm . But thanks anyhow.
Nice tip. Stay well Joe.
I set my right rear vise jaw corner as 0.0" with the spindle center for both modes before starting each day. My guess is I started doing that because drilling bolt patterns is about 80% of what I used the DRO for early on.
I use INC for all machining operations and save ABS for a quick 0.0" reference reset of INC when needed. All of the drawings I make are dimensioned the same way. It may or may not be correct, but it's what works best for me.
Drawing a pocket like the example you gave, I'll dimension the hard constraints in black and the DRO coordinates for the tool offsets in blue, that's just what I found works best for me though.
As always, clear understandable instruction with good examples, thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
You can use the zero function to do what you were using inc mode for but you can use any of the 99 for 99 of your pockets.
If you do, don't alter the abs as it resets all your zeros to the new base setting.
That's a good way to explain it, maybe 1 step further would be to have 2 pockets and 2 known centers in absolute. From there pick up the centers and move to incremental to get your corners twice in the exact same way, just as a reinforcement. Either way it is very helpful information, thank you.
that is actually a brilliant tip Joe! Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
I think someone told me this early on. But i totally forgot about it. Thanks for the reminder. I'll definitely apply this at some point soon.
Looking at the view from 1:16, Once you get your tool to absolute origin at the top left of the material, you can immediately switch to incremental, and make all future moves incremental moves based on the dimensions already shown on the drawring. No need to get to the center of the features first, or divide dimensions shown in half but that is a way to get it done, certainly.
Joe, thanks for the explaination, my DROs all came from the same Far Eastern Mfgr. And they all have the same manual that is so poorly written that I consider the manuals worthless! I use the ABS mode exclusively and what I know how to do is solely based on what I’ve seen others do on UA-cam! I will have to explore the function more once I get my machines back up and running!
I agree. Some of those manuals can be less than detailed.
typically...I set (and leave) the left corner of my fixed mill jaw to zero/zero in absolute and it is always ready to assist in measure and layout of simple parts....then use incremental when I need further layouts/offsets...by keeping the zero/zero...anytime I can find a dimension/location, then re-zero the incremental as needed....
Hi Chuck. That would work well assuming you have a stop on your jaw at all times? Or do you just use the outer edge? Stay well sir.
What helped me in understanding the difference between ABS and INC was the following: When moving the origin in ABS mode, also the INC mode moves, but not vice versa. IOW, the true position in INC mode is the ABS+INC (simplified).
Its actually not. An incremental move is only the distance from the last place you were, whereas the new position represented in absolute is where you are since you left home.
@@joepie221 Sorry, I was referring to my DRO, not to CNC machines and G90/G91.
never used it will have to give it a go, thanks, Sir Joe.
Hey Rob, you'll find it very handy. Just remember which mode you are in.
Thanks for the video. Keep safe and stay well.
A split screen video, one side table movement related to cut tool, other side whats happening on DRO. Would help clarify.
I have never used incremental mode on my DRO.Now, I have something new to think about
Thanks that was interesting, it would be great if you could cover the basics of a dro , on the mill in a practical situation. Thanks again Dwayne NZ.
I have made a worksheet to find out those values accordind to the size of the edge finder and tool’s diameter.
Incremental moves are quite valuable in step and repeat features. Imagine the program size required for a grid pattern of 25 holes would also be open to math or inputting errors in absolute. Finding these errors or making adjustments is also easier in incremental mode.
You will enjoy the CNC application video I plan to shoot.
My cheap Chinese DRO scales have a built-in fixed reference that allows you to recover a zero reference in ABS mode
Wish I had the owner manual for my dro
My DRO doesn't have work-offsets like some of the new ones, so I sometimes use my Incremental Mode as a temporary work offset. Either for the center of my rotary table or a stop setup on the second vise. Yes, I have 2 vises & a 10" rotary table on my mill. :-)
I hope you center that mass up before you go home at night.
@@joepie221 Absolutely!!
Very rarely does this method have an application anymore with CAD software so accessible. Going off a datum you don't need to worry about error stack up. Used the software to define your hole coordinates and you're in business.
I wish you would use a better mic setup when you do your 'chalk talk'. It's so difficult to understand. Like the material, and have learned a lot from your videos
Noted!
I have never touched a milling machine till I bought one.. Web, I forget the model, but I have put a DRO on it.. I don't understand 95% of what things are on it.. But, have partly figured out the bolt circle function. I have trouble figuring out how to change the starting point, and still have the end point still be correct...
... Not a big issue. All I am making once in a while are repair plates to fix a riding mower deck, there the spindles are ripping the deck mounting holes out. So, 3 or 4 bolt holes. I clamp and weld to the damaged deck.
Thanks Joe you da man!
When doing hand laying with even the best measuring devices, you always go from the absolute. If you increment from one measure to the next then your errors will add to each other. If you have 5 measurements and you are off by 10/1000's on each one because of eyeball precision, by the 5th you will be off by 50/1000 or more.
If you constantly layout (sheet metal, for example) from the "starting point" then each 5 will be no more than the 10/1000's tolerance.
On digital incremental is OK because nothing accumulates.
Joe, you are a good teacher!
Stack tolerancing is a whole nuther animal. Many young engineers have the best intent, but are stumped when the holes don't line up. A dimensioning scheme can make or break a well designed part. Thanks for the comment.
Incremental mode is fast when you are dealing with symmetrical pockets. Example: four machined holes, each is 2" x 1" in a 6" x 6" plate. 0.375 end mill, 16 corners means 16 times to make a mistake. Incremental Mode is fast: I just have to think about two numbers. I can remember two numbers. :)
Good reminder.
Thanks for the tip!
Thanks, another helpful vid 👍
How did we every get by, fumbling and stumbling in our shops, before Joe Pie? Thanks for explaining how to properly and efficiently use our DROs, Joe.
Cheers, Gary
thanks Gary. The incr button is very handy.
Ialways use absolute. Of course my old Mitutoyo display is so old, the most advance feature is mm/in button.
Very helpful! Thanks
thanks Joe.....wondered about that....
incremental is less accurate than absolute. When you hit the X or Y reset, you establish a new zero. You may lose or gain a few tenths each time you do this. I actually prefer incremental but depending on the part I am making I may use absolute.
i got into gear shaving with the slot saw. was seriously disappointed when gearotic/mach3 didnt actually generate helicals.
and that started me on lessons with incremental and absolute whilst indexing a rotary table... a steep learning curve.
a few minutes amusing oneself assigning different rotation axes and generating oddball toolpaths :)
at which point a helical gear is just throwing the cutter/rotary over at the helix angle and running the same generating principle with an added rotation...
and on that note, i also dislike the manner in which most of the gear generating shavers work at one tooth at a time, lots of rotary reversals. backlash seems to be of no concern despite them generally being DIY setups.
so i always keep my rotary running the same way, increment the Z on every full rotation, blah blah. seems faster as well?
I stay in incremental mode. seems very easy for to keep track of where I am. most recently used it to make a new tee nut for my tool post on my lathe. it made it simple to rough in and then come in for the finish cut. everything came out right on size and symmetrical. through hole already located simple right?
If you are over the center of the part, or hole, either setting works exactly the same. It is simple.
Thanks Joe
I would like to be able to explain things as well as you do!
One difference between abs and inc on mine seems to be that I can enter a value into inc, but not abs?
Interesting. I have to try it.
You may have a defective DRO. You should be able to enter location values in both ABS and INC modes. After touching-off with an edge finder, I enter a value to compensate for the probe's radius. Likewise, when changing tools, the Z value needs to be updated. You are missing out on a lot of functionality by only being able to zero out values.
i use it like this all day. if i dont want to lose my abs 0. And if i need more pockets, i use just offset of a tool fore eatch pocket
Once again I learn! could you do Video on DRO I bought mine and read instructions but the spoken word is far better than the written
Great suggestion!
Joe -- Great Video , Here is a challenge for you. I have a problem that I hope you can clear up. Everybody assumes that a DRO is on the money and measures correctly. I installed one a DRO on my Jig Borer, which uses stick standards for measuring. After installing it, I check the stick standards against the DRO. They argued with each other. Obviously I hang my hat on the stick standards. The data that came with the DRO showed how to make the necessary adjustments to qualify the DRO. I can't understand their instructions. Can you weave your mystical web.
Many of us don't even know the true power that is hiding inside our DRO units !
I have these options on my small clausing clone in a home shop. I see the value but generally speaking dont have the time to dive in to deep.
Never have . going to try it.
Simply because my manual mill has a quite old Mitutoyo DRO that only has one coordinate system, I cant use both obviously but question regardless; any particular reason why you would switch to incremental after finding "center" of the feature rather than say the left back corner (center of the .25 radius)?
At least for rectangular / square features like illustrated in the video, it seem like it would be less math and easier to remember the numbers if you found that corner first and worked off that corner.
Unless I'm missing something here, since most prints I'm use to dealing with have pockets with their dimensions referenced to the edges / walls (like your whiteboard drawing), it seems like it would be easier to simply take your X,Y offsets from absolute (i.e., 1.626 , 3.112), add half the cutter diameter (assuming you are using a 1/2" endmill to match the .25" corner radius) and you then have the center of that back left corner of the pocket and thus would zero incremental there. Then you would just have to take your X and Y pocket size (i.e., 2.812 , 1.40) and subtract the cutter diameter and that is your incremental X and Y moves.
No having the split those numbers because of working from center to find center and no having to use the half / split values along with half cutter dia. values and having half value + and - X and Y moves.
Just seems like working from the center of the pocket like shown is adding more math / calculations and thus more chance for possible error from not paying attention when figuring out all your numbers.
With lose tolerance work, your method will provide similar results for the same amount of effort as working from the center. The differences between the methods becomes more apparent when tight tolerances are required.
As an example, if your opening is 0.002" undersized, when working from the center, you just increase your offsets by 0.001", and that's it. When working from a corner, you have two coordinates that are going to be either plus or minus 0.001" (it will depend upon which corner you used as a reference) and the other two offsets will also need to be increased by 0.001". You can't just add 0.002" to your original offsets because then your opening would shift by 0.001" in both directions.
Do you happen to have a way to be contacted ?
I have a contact page on my website. Listed below the video description.
Hi Joe, I sent you an email for a couple of topics I'd like to see, would be very valuable for an oil field machinist, hope you got it . cheers, Max
joe, you need a mic
Hi Joe love your videos, but can't stand the audio quality. I don't want to hear what your shop echos like, I want to hear your clear distinct voice. It always sounds like the mic is across the room, because it probably is. Please start using a lapel mic, audio should not be an afterthought with all the effort you put into your videos.
Noted
Nice vid. 2nd
Joe great videos but your audio sucks. Get a mic!
In editing, I have no issues. Maybe check your audio settings.
@@joepie221 Thanks Joe, but my audio settings are fine. Your whiteboard sessions at the begining sound like an onboard mic. Didn't mean to offend you. It's just my field. Great audio makes a huge difference. Again, nice content.
After a good g73 my girlfriend loves it when I pull out an m88 all over her chin 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thanks Joe