I grew up in rural Az in the 60's and 70's. It was not uncommon to still see "well witching" using divining rods. In fact they are still common in finding well water in folk communities today. So while seer stones may have fallen out of favor in the 19th century, divining had not. At least not in rural communities. And sure it could be coincidence, but my father found a fresh water well using the technique when most of the deeper commercial wells in the area were coming up salty. Just something to think about...
Old Cowboy: Texans still use divining rods to find water on their land. People pay thousands for a “professional” to find water, to no avail. Hire a local diviner, and on the first time the water is found. My elderly LDS mom hired a diviner, found water on the first try. The person who sold her the land had dug three deep wells where a professional had said there was water. After 1,000 feet, still no water. Mom’s diviner lady found water and it was a couple hundred feet.
I've used one a number of years ago. My wife inherited the tradition from her father. My wife used it successfully to find a buried water pipe in our yard. I was very skeptical before that, and then I tried it and it worked for me also, for a different section of a different pipe. I was quite surprised by that and it turned me from a staunch skeptic to a believer. I really think there is something to this, though it cannot be explained by current science, and of course there is a great deal of skepticism towards it.
I don't think that it really matters much whether it was done with a seer stone or the Urim and Thummim. I see critics try to condemn Joseph Smith for using divination in the translation of the Book of Mormon, but in doing so, they also condemn the original Apostles, who used cleromancy to determine a replacement for Judas. Cleromancy was essentially casting lots like you would with dice, but instead you were using pebbles or other odd objects in place of marked cubes. Yet again, these critics prove their hypocrisy and make their argument void. I've seen people say that they were lied to their whole lives because they never learned about these things when they were younger. In my case, I was taught from the very beginning that before the loss of the 116 pages, Joseph had the Urim and Thummim, but afterwards, those were taken away and he was handed a seer stone instead. Eventually, he became so adept that he no longer needed the stone to translate but he kept it throughout his life. In fact, he apparently had two of them. I'm fairly certain that the first was given to him by Moroni and the second he found in a well. The second was his favorite, and he gave the first to Oliver Cowdery. In the end, it just doesn't really matter how it was done, so we shouldn't let that bother us. All that matters is that it happened, and we continue forward with the task that we've been handed: bringing the Restored Gospel to all nations, kindreds, and tongues. Whatever happens in the coming days, we can't let the little things get in the way.
If you want a helpful history on the seer stones, you will get a lot out of the book "Joseph Smith's Seer Stones" by Michael Mackay and Nicholas Frederick; it is quite a fascinating read put together from their research on the Joseph Smith Papers project. I like your finishing sentences - the miracle is the book itself, a tangible witness and fruit of this miraculous process - that is what matters and is our witness to the world of the divinity of the restoration. My favorite video to make on the channel was "Book of Mormon - Match It!" because it goes to the heart of this issue.
“Rough Stone Rolling” by Bushman is an astounding and thoroughly-researched work based on every extant scrap of history relative to Joseph’s life & times. An essential read and an essential source in your library!
Yes, it is definitely in my top 10 of all time! You will see me highlight it again in the next evidences video coming out, which will be about Joseph Smith
Dizzy Derwish Dizzy, I agree that RSR is a very helpful work, and that Bushman is a talented, fair-minded document hound. The book is an asset for us! But I would caution anyone not to deify Richard Bushman. I am thankful for some of his work, but I do not trust him. He and MHA officers have showcased and given highest awards to apostate ‘scholars,’ e.g., Dan Vogel and Mike Quinn. Some of his other utterances in formal and informal settings have been nonsense. I am not into scholar worship, for good reasons. I’ve also seen stunningly ignorant mutter from Leonard Arrington. I like the idea of appreciating the _good_ things that come from these flawed history commentators. I can do that without venerating them.
Thanks for collecting all of this excellent information together. I'd heard most of it (but not all), but I'd not kept track of where all the sources were. This video episode is very valuable!
Is there more context of the use of “seer” stones other than those in use by Joseph? Is there text of others in contemporary use as Joseph? And have you come across any text of what qualifies a stone to be a seer?
Here are the top resources I would suggest for you to do a deeper study on the topic: By far, as the top recommendation, I would suggest the book Joseph’s Seer Stones by Michael MacKay & Nicholas Frederick As for some shorter, but still helpful pieces, I would suggest these articles: Ensign Article, Oct 2015, Joseph the Seer by Richard Turley Jr (Asst Church Historian & Recorder), Robin Jensen & Mark Ashurst-McGee (Church History Dept) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng Deseret News Article from Michael Ash on Seer Stone in Translation: www.deseret.com/2009/11/23/20354481/challenging-issues-keeping-the-faith-how-a-seer-stone-helped-in-the-book-of-mormon-translation Church Website - Gospel Topic: Seer Stones www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/seer-stones?lang=eng Church Website - Gospel Topics Essay - Translating the Book of Mormon: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng
Yes I am familiar and also dismayed by these arguments and the confusion it may cause for some. The idea that Joesph didn’t use a seer stone goes against a lot of first person credible witness accounts from people such as Emma Smith, Martin Harris, David Whitmer and Joseph Knight Sr. It also goes against the church itself and all of the church history department scholars who have tried to carefully dissect all of this history (which hopefully this video I did here helps to show). The church is in possession of the seer stone itself and published it in the Liahona with this article from Richard Turley Jr, the assistant church historian: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng You can also see the confusion that sometimes came later with the use of the term Urim & Thumim, which I discussed in the video; here is also a helpful covering of that topic on the church website under the gospel topics essay on Book of Mormon Translation: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng Here is also a video from the church history department discussing the seer stone: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2017-12-0120-seer-stones-and-the-translation-of-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng And 3 other quick links that are helpful sources from the church website, the Joseph Smith Papers project and a helpful write up in the Deseret News: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/seer-stones?lang=eng www.josephsmithpapers.org/topic/seer-stone www.deseret.com/2017/2/26/20606987/10-insights-about-joseph-smith-and-seer-stones-from-the-authors-of-joseph-smith-s-seer-stones If you want to do a deep dive - I highly recommend the book Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones by Michael Hubbard MacKay and Nicholas Frederick, published by the BYU Religious Studies Center and Deseret Book (especially valuable for the large section in the back of the book with all of the sources - clearly labeled and quoted). The miracle of the translation of the Book of Mormon isn’t any less using the seer stone than the interpreters, and I even think it is can make it even more mind-boggling! I also intentionally finished this video with a special reference to a stone we should all long to receive: a precious white stone that everyone that is exalted will be given, according to Revelation 2:17. In D&C 130:10-11, we are told this white stone will become a “Urim & Thumim” to each who receive it :) One last thing, just because I have come across a few interesting UA-cam videos on this very topic in the last month - I will share them here as a resource: CWIC Media - “Joseph Smith Did Use A Seer Stone” - interview with Brant Gardner ua-cam.com/video/4O1WkttYTfs/v-deo.html Mormonism with the Murph - “Evidence to support the authenticity and historicity of the Book of Mormon” - interview with Stephen Smoot (begin at 32:45 and listen until about the 57 min mark - note the reference to the Joseph Smith Foundation just after the 55:30 mark) ua-cam.com/video/m1FCmBhQoew/v-deo.html ….and finally, saved the best for last - there is a fairly new website run by the BH Roberts Foundation called mormonr.org and they are creating an incredible database of primary sources related to various gospel topics and questions. Here is a link to the topic of seer stones (277 primary sources!): mormonr.org/qnas/Gzjcc/seer_stones?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-LCMk5SH_gIVKSdMCh0S4wW0EAMYASAAEgKto_D_BwE
Here are the names and authors of those 3 books I held up at the start of the video: Rough Stone Rolling - Richard Bushman Joseph’s Seer Stones - Michael MacKay & Nicholas Frederick From Darkness Unto Light - Michael MacKay & Gerrit Dirkmaat
@@latterdaysaintsqa Yes, rough stone rolling. Thank you! There is another book I've been meaning to order called "No man knows my history." It's the life of our Prophet, Joseph Smith.
Fyi, there are a lot of problems with Fawn Brodie’s book “No Man Knows My History.” I would certainly stick with Rough Stone Rolling, written by a faithful member, while covering the same topics without the skewing and anti approach Brodie uses. If you do end up buying Brodie’s book, I would simultaneously buy (and read together), Hugh Nibley’s response book called ‘No Ma’am, That’s Not History”. You can also use this link to Fairmormon, which responds to the problems found in virtually every chapter: www.fairmormon.org/answers/Criticism_of_Mormonism/Books/No_Man_Knows_My_History:_The_Life_of_Joseph_Smith
@@latterdaysaintsqa Thank you for the warning. I was unaware the book was not accurate. I'm being baptized next month and want to study about the prophet but money is very tight now due to taking my housemate to dialysis 3x a week so the books I do have has to be cheap as possible.
Congratulations on making the choice to be baptized! With regards to studying Joseph Smith, I have a few free suggestions for you. A wonderful recent publication done by the Church itself is the updated Church History presented in narrative form - the book is called Saints and volume 1 will cover a lot of Joseph Smith’s history. Here is a direct link (and you can also get it in audio on the church website or your phone gospel library app): www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/ldsorg/media-library/ebook-pdf/Saints-v1-English-PD60001624.pdf?lang=eng Also here is a link to a video I just did on Joseph Smith, which will share a number of interesting tidbits: ua-cam.com/video/EviWdWh3ooM/v-deo.html And lastly, as I mentioned in the Joseph Smith video I just referred you to, there is a lecture series from Truman Madsen that you can now get for free through UA-cam that will take you on an amazing journey through Joseph’s life. Here is a link to all 8 lectures he gave: Truman Madsen Lecture Series on Joseph Smith from BYU SpeechesUA-cam channel: Lecture 1: The First Vision and Its Aftermath www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea2v8... Lecture 2: Joseph’s Personality & Character: www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVXkB... Lecture 3: Joseph Smith and Spiritual Gifts: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz5Gz... Lecture 4: Joseph Smith and Trials: www.youtube.com/watch?v=juLZC... Lecture 5: Joseph Smith & The Kirtland Temple www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmPJi... Lecture 6: Joseph Smith as Teacher, Speaker, and Counselor www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzG7t... Lecture 7: Doctrinal Development & the Nauvoo Era www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcmej... Lecture 8: The Last Months & Martyrdom: www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S9JF...
Yes, there is a lot of evidence he did. The seer stone Joseph used is still in the possession of the church. The picture of the seer stone on the video thumbnail was taken from the church released picture included with the October 2015 Ensign article entitled Joseph the Seer, written by Richard E. Turley Jr., Assistant Church Historian and Recorder, Robin S. Jensen and Mark Ashurst-McGee, Church History Department I would invite you to read the article to hear directly from the church historians on the issue (which information was greatly enhanced through the Joseph Smith Papers Project): www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng If you want to do a deeper dive, I would highly suggest the book Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones by Michael Hubbard Mackay and Nicholas J. Frederick (this was an expansion on the work done and learned through the Joseph Smith Papers Project)
Another awesome video! This brought up so many thoughts for me. First, my fifth (I think) great grandfather is Joseph Knight. The Prophet Joseph used his buckboard wagon to get the plates and the spectacles from the hollowed out tree stump to finally bring home. One of the first things Joseph talked about was what he could see with the seer stones. He hadn't even started translating yet and he was seeing all sorts of things. Father Knight was actually asking about the plates rather than the spectacles. Also, Father Knight is listed as one who touched the plates under the cloth. He supported Joseph and Oliver while they were down in Harmony, PA translating. He provided food and paper for the translation process so they wouldn't have to go work to provide for their sustenance. I come through Newel Knight who had an evil spirit cast out of him and had a heavenly vision open up to him. This is considered the first miracle in the church. He, Newel, was the first marriage the Prophet Joseph performed. There are a few other firsts with the Knights, but I won't bore you. As for the Prophet's face in his hat, for some reason this bothered me quite a bit. More than anything since my mission. My wife, as precious and strong as she is told me, "...why does it matter how the Book of Mormon was translated? You know it's true, the how shouldn't matter." Even with this I still struggled with this. I thought it looked stupid and dumb, just like the critics wanted me to see it. I wasn't understanding it in it's proper context. I was only understanding it with a modern eye. So I fasted and prayed about it and started driving to the temple. The second I stepped foot and that sacred ground, the spirit told me what I already knew; but did so reminding me what my wife had said. I have never doubted the Book of Mormon since my mission. But now I will never doubt the process either. Thank you again for your videos. They help me so much with my writing process. You have so much more material that I haven't obtained yet. You've really made an impact on my book list. Much to my wife's frustration. But she can't say much. She has a whole room with of crapbook - I mean scrapbook stuff so she doesn't have much room to talk. Keep it up.
Thanks for the comment. You come from an amazing heritage! Joseph Knight was an amazing man and helped contribute right at the outset of the restoration and he and his family continued on faithfully through much persecution and sacrifice. Glad you got through the struggle over the seer stone - for me, it makes the translation of the Book of Mormon even more miraculous, particularly in light of the video I did entitled “Book of Mormon: Match It!” I had to crack up about the scrapbook room comment…I have one of those in my house too 😁
It is true that we should not listen to those things that plant doubt in our mind or hearts that God lives, that the church and kingdom have been restored in the last days. But this video has helped me realize that it is a good and righteous thing to be learned in the true history of things that happened, cultures and practices etc. I have a friend that is gifted with a divining rod, and did watch him use two wires that would cross as he found a spring on our ranch. I could not do it ,but when he placed his hands upon my shoulders, it worked for me also..! I am so impressed with this good brother and his spiritual talent of gathering information and teaching it To us in a way that is new and exciting. Thank you
Most eyewitness accounts appear to indicate the plates did not seem to be directly involved in most of the translation, (even if Joseph would have been directly looking at them, it doesn’t appear he was able to generate any text without looking directly instead at translation aids). So in one sense this would make it appear that the plates weren’t required; however, the plates I believe were very necessary - it helped everyone to appreciate the ancient nature of the record and the tangible physical aspect of what God had called Joseph to do. Without the plates, Joseph would have been severely handicapped in the production and reception of the translated product. Here is an excellent article discussing this very topic at Book of Mormon Central: knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/why-were-the-plates-present-during-the-translation-of-the-book-of-mormon I copy/pasted one of the concluding paragraphs to their article here: “These insights-both practical and spiritual-suggest that rather than being unnecessary, the physical plates may have been essential to the translation process. The engraved characters copied from their pages helped strengthen the faith of Martin Harris and others. Their tangible reality was an ever-present reminder that Joseph’s words were derived from an actual record of ancient prophets. And their veiled presence meaningfully symbolized Jesus Christ’s full participation in the translation.” I did do 2 videos on Book of Mormon plate witnesses as well. If you are interested, here are the titles and links to those: David Whitmer: An Irrefutable Witness - Evidences ua-cam.com/video/cMtwW-KhgsU/v-deo.html Defending the Book of Mormon Witnesses ua-cam.com/video/uPZ1mDD1SmU/v-deo.html
Yes I do. You can find all the transcripts for the videos on my website latterdaysaintsqa.com. I usually put the direct link underneath the video description but I didn’t see it when I just checked (thanks for your question helping me to realize this - I am just adding it now). Here is the direct link to the transcript for you: latterdaysaintsqa.com/josephs-seer-stone-culture/
I just found your channel. It is excellent thank you. I think more members that have questions or doubts should watch your videos to balance the information out there that is contrary to what you present. But it is your enthusiasm that is engaging. I have shared your video with others as I believe your content builds and strengthens faith. Thank you so much.
This channel is utter pricelessness! Really thankful. Quick suggestion on production: a channel like this deserves better sound. Suggest booming a supercardioid shotgun or condenser mic immediately above head and slightly in front, just out of frame. This will give great sound, eliminating room echo. Suggest too, move you forward and change depth of field to slightly blur the background. Love your channel! 💛😊
Glen - I needed you 18 months ago when I was starting!! I upgraded the mic 3 times over that period, due to feedback but never reached perfection. Wish I had cared as much about the production quality as I did about the content! I only have a few videos left until the library is complete so I am just going to stick with what I have to finish (but thanks for the input and positive comments about the channel content!!)
When you stated that Joseph put his face into a hat to exclude all light and then the stones would light up, it reminds me of how Christ is a light that shines in darkness and brings light (aka knowledge). I really feel it was a physical object that had a very symbolic meaning of Christ
I grew up in rural Az in the 60's and 70's. It was not uncommon to still see "well witching" using divining rods. In fact they are still common in finding well water in folk communities today. So while seer stones may have fallen out of favor in the 19th century, divining had not. At least not in rural communities.
And sure it could be coincidence, but my father found a fresh water well using the technique when most of the deeper commercial wells in the area were coming up salty. Just something to think about...
Old Cowboy: Texans still use divining rods to find water on their land. People pay thousands for a “professional” to find water, to no avail.
Hire a local diviner, and on the first time the water is found.
My elderly LDS mom hired a diviner, found water on the first try. The person who sold her the land had dug three deep wells where a professional had said there was water. After 1,000 feet, still no water. Mom’s diviner lady found water and it was a couple hundred feet.
Old Cowboy: Same in southern Utah. My dad had a friend who was quite good at it.
Old Cowboy Similar family story in Malad, Idaho among Welsh immigrants of the 1860s.
What did your dad do? Did he youse the stick? How dose the stick work?
I've used one a number of years ago. My wife inherited the tradition from her father. My wife used it successfully to find a buried water pipe in our yard. I was very skeptical before that, and then I tried it and it worked for me also, for a different section of a different pipe. I was quite surprised by that and it turned me from a staunch skeptic to a believer. I really think there is something to this, though it cannot be explained by current science, and of course there is a great deal of skepticism towards it.
I don't think that it really matters much whether it was done with a seer stone or the Urim and Thummim. I see critics try to condemn Joseph Smith for using divination in the translation of the Book of Mormon, but in doing so, they also condemn the original Apostles, who used cleromancy to determine a replacement for Judas. Cleromancy was essentially casting lots like you would with dice, but instead you were using pebbles or other odd objects in place of marked cubes. Yet again, these critics prove their hypocrisy and make their argument void. I've seen people say that they were lied to their whole lives because they never learned about these things when they were younger. In my case, I was taught from the very beginning that before the loss of the 116 pages, Joseph had the Urim and Thummim, but afterwards, those were taken away and he was handed a seer stone instead. Eventually, he became so adept that he no longer needed the stone to translate but he kept it throughout his life. In fact, he apparently had two of them. I'm fairly certain that the first was given to him by Moroni and the second he found in a well. The second was his favorite, and he gave the first to Oliver Cowdery. In the end, it just doesn't really matter how it was done, so we shouldn't let that bother us. All that matters is that it happened, and we continue forward with the task that we've been handed: bringing the Restored Gospel to all nations, kindreds, and tongues. Whatever happens in the coming days, we can't let the little things get in the way.
If you want a helpful history on the seer stones, you will get a lot out of the book "Joseph Smith's Seer Stones" by Michael Mackay and Nicholas Frederick; it is quite a fascinating read put together from their research on the Joseph Smith Papers project. I like your finishing sentences - the miracle is the book itself, a tangible witness and fruit of this miraculous process - that is what matters and is our witness to the world of the divinity of the restoration. My favorite video to make on the channel was "Book of Mormon - Match It!" because it goes to the heart of this issue.
“Rough Stone Rolling” by Bushman is an astounding and thoroughly-researched work based on every extant scrap of history relative to Joseph’s life & times. An essential read and an essential source in your library!
Yes, it is definitely in my top 10 of all time! You will see me highlight it again in the next evidences video coming out, which will be about Joseph Smith
Dizzy Derwish Dizzy, I agree that RSR is a very helpful work, and that Bushman is a talented, fair-minded document hound. The book is an asset for us!
But I would caution anyone not to deify Richard Bushman. I am thankful for some of his work, but I do not trust him. He and MHA officers have showcased and given highest awards to apostate ‘scholars,’ e.g., Dan Vogel and Mike Quinn. Some of his other utterances in formal and informal settings have been nonsense. I am not into scholar worship, for good reasons. I’ve also seen stunningly ignorant mutter from Leonard Arrington. I like the idea of appreciating the _good_ things that come from these flawed history commentators. I can do that without venerating them.
this was a fun episode to watch. Thanks for sharing it
Good to hear - thank you!
Thanks for collecting all of this excellent information together. I'd heard most of it (but not all), but I'd not kept track of where all the sources were. This video episode is very valuable!
Thank you!
Is there more context of the use of “seer” stones other than those in use by Joseph? Is there text of others in contemporary use as Joseph? And have you come across any text of what qualifies a stone to be a seer?
Here are the top resources I would suggest for you to do a deeper study on the topic:
By far, as the top recommendation, I would suggest the book Joseph’s Seer Stones by Michael MacKay & Nicholas Frederick
As for some shorter, but still helpful pieces, I would suggest these articles:
Ensign Article, Oct 2015, Joseph the Seer by Richard Turley Jr (Asst Church Historian & Recorder), Robin Jensen & Mark Ashurst-McGee (Church History Dept)
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng
Deseret News Article from Michael Ash on Seer Stone in Translation:
www.deseret.com/2009/11/23/20354481/challenging-issues-keeping-the-faith-how-a-seer-stone-helped-in-the-book-of-mormon-translation
Church Website - Gospel Topic: Seer Stones
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/seer-stones?lang=eng
Church Website - Gospel Topics Essay - Translating the Book of Mormon:
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng
I'm curious if you have listened to the Joseph Smith Foundation's claims on this issue.
Yes I am familiar and also dismayed by these arguments and the confusion it may cause for some. The idea that Joesph didn’t use a seer stone goes against a lot of first person credible witness accounts from people such as Emma Smith, Martin Harris, David Whitmer and Joseph Knight Sr. It also goes against the church itself and all of the church history department scholars who have tried to carefully dissect all of this history (which hopefully this video I did here helps to show). The church is in possession of the seer stone itself and published it in the Liahona with this article from Richard Turley Jr, the assistant church historian: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng
You can also see the confusion that sometimes came later with the use of the term Urim & Thumim, which I discussed in the video; here is also a helpful covering of that topic on the church website under the gospel topics essay on Book of Mormon Translation:
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng
Here is also a video from the church history department discussing the seer stone:
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/video/2017-12-0120-seer-stones-and-the-translation-of-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng
And 3 other quick links that are helpful sources from the church website, the Joseph Smith Papers project and a helpful write up in the Deseret News:
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/seer-stones?lang=eng
www.josephsmithpapers.org/topic/seer-stone
www.deseret.com/2017/2/26/20606987/10-insights-about-joseph-smith-and-seer-stones-from-the-authors-of-joseph-smith-s-seer-stones
If you want to do a deep dive - I highly recommend the book Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones by Michael Hubbard MacKay and Nicholas Frederick, published by the BYU Religious Studies Center and Deseret Book (especially valuable for the large section in the back of the book with all of the sources - clearly labeled and quoted).
The miracle of the translation of the Book of Mormon isn’t any less using the seer stone than the interpreters, and I even think it is can make it even more mind-boggling! I also intentionally finished this video with a special reference to a stone we should all long to receive: a precious white stone that everyone that is exalted will be given, according to Revelation 2:17. In D&C 130:10-11, we are told this white stone will become a “Urim & Thumim” to each who receive it :)
One last thing, just because I have come across a few interesting UA-cam videos on this very topic in the last month - I will share them here as a resource:
CWIC Media - “Joseph Smith Did Use A Seer Stone” - interview with Brant Gardner
ua-cam.com/video/4O1WkttYTfs/v-deo.html
Mormonism with the Murph - “Evidence to support the authenticity and historicity of the Book of Mormon” - interview with Stephen Smoot (begin at 32:45 and listen until about the 57 min mark - note the reference to the Joseph Smith Foundation just after the 55:30 mark)
ua-cam.com/video/m1FCmBhQoew/v-deo.html
….and finally, saved the best for last - there is a fairly new website run by the BH Roberts Foundation called mormonr.org and they are creating an incredible database of primary sources related to various gospel topics and questions. Here is a link to the topic of seer stones (277 primary sources!):
mormonr.org/qnas/Gzjcc/seer_stones?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-LCMk5SH_gIVKSdMCh0S4wW0EAMYASAAEgKto_D_BwE
@@latterdaysaintsqa so what you’re saying is that you’ve got an opinion on this! Lol. Thanks for that reply. I will review the links you posted.
What was the name of that book of Joseph Smith? I didn't catch the name. Thank you
Here are the names and authors of those 3 books I held up at the start of the video:
Rough Stone Rolling - Richard Bushman
Joseph’s Seer Stones - Michael MacKay & Nicholas Frederick
From Darkness Unto Light - Michael MacKay & Gerrit Dirkmaat
@@latterdaysaintsqa Yes, rough stone rolling. Thank you! There is another book I've been meaning to order called "No man knows my history." It's the life of our Prophet, Joseph Smith.
Fyi, there are a lot of problems with Fawn Brodie’s book “No Man Knows My History.” I would certainly stick with Rough Stone Rolling, written by a faithful member, while covering the same topics without the skewing and anti approach Brodie uses. If you do end up buying Brodie’s book, I would simultaneously buy (and read together), Hugh Nibley’s response book called ‘No Ma’am, That’s Not History”. You can also use this link to Fairmormon, which responds to the problems found in virtually every chapter:
www.fairmormon.org/answers/Criticism_of_Mormonism/Books/No_Man_Knows_My_History:_The_Life_of_Joseph_Smith
@@latterdaysaintsqa Thank you for the warning. I was unaware the book was not accurate. I'm being baptized next month and want to study about the prophet but money is very tight now due to taking my housemate to dialysis 3x a week so the books I do have has to be cheap as possible.
Congratulations on making the choice to be baptized!
With regards to studying Joseph Smith, I have a few free suggestions for you. A wonderful recent publication done by the Church itself is the updated Church History presented in narrative form - the book is called Saints and volume 1 will cover a lot of Joseph Smith’s history. Here is a direct link (and you can also get it in audio on the church website or your phone gospel library app):
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/ldsorg/media-library/ebook-pdf/Saints-v1-English-PD60001624.pdf?lang=eng
Also here is a link to a video I just did on Joseph Smith, which will share a number of interesting tidbits:
ua-cam.com/video/EviWdWh3ooM/v-deo.html
And lastly, as I mentioned in the Joseph Smith video I just referred you to, there is a lecture series from Truman Madsen that you can now get for free through UA-cam that will take you on an amazing journey through Joseph’s life. Here is a link to all 8 lectures he gave:
Truman Madsen Lecture Series on Joseph Smith from BYU SpeechesUA-cam channel:
Lecture 1: The First Vision and Its Aftermath
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea2v8...
Lecture 2: Joseph’s Personality & Character:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVXkB...
Lecture 3: Joseph Smith and Spiritual Gifts:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz5Gz...
Lecture 4: Joseph Smith and Trials:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=juLZC...
Lecture 5: Joseph Smith & The Kirtland Temple
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmPJi...
Lecture 6: Joseph Smith as Teacher, Speaker, and Counselor
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzG7t...
Lecture 7: Doctrinal Development & the Nauvoo Era
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcmej...
Lecture 8: The Last Months & Martyrdom:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S9JF...
So did he use seer stones, there are some who think he did not use them?
Yes, there is a lot of evidence he did. The seer stone Joseph used is still in the possession of the church. The picture of the seer stone on the video thumbnail was taken from the church released picture included with the October 2015 Ensign article entitled Joseph the Seer, written by Richard E. Turley Jr., Assistant Church Historian and Recorder, Robin S. Jensen and Mark Ashurst-McGee, Church History Department
I would invite you to read the article to hear directly from the church historians on the issue (which information was greatly enhanced through the Joseph Smith Papers Project):
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng
If you want to do a deeper dive, I would highly suggest the book Joseph Smith’s Seer Stones by Michael Hubbard Mackay and Nicholas J. Frederick (this was an expansion on the work done and learned through the Joseph Smith Papers Project)
Another awesome video! This brought up so many thoughts for me. First, my fifth (I think) great grandfather is Joseph Knight. The Prophet Joseph used his buckboard wagon to get the plates and the spectacles from the hollowed out tree stump to finally bring home. One of the first things Joseph talked about was what he could see with the seer stones. He hadn't even started translating yet and he was seeing all sorts of things. Father Knight was actually asking about the plates rather than the spectacles. Also, Father Knight is listed as one who touched the plates under the cloth. He supported Joseph and Oliver while they were down in Harmony, PA translating. He provided food and paper for the translation process so they wouldn't have to go work to provide for their sustenance. I come through Newel Knight who had an evil spirit cast out of him and had a heavenly vision open up to him. This is considered the first miracle in the church. He, Newel, was the first marriage the Prophet Joseph performed. There are a few other firsts with the Knights, but I won't bore you.
As for the Prophet's face in his hat, for some reason this bothered me quite a bit. More than anything since my mission. My wife, as precious and strong as she is told me, "...why does it matter how the Book of Mormon was translated? You know it's true, the how shouldn't matter." Even with this I still struggled with this. I thought it looked stupid and dumb, just like the critics wanted me to see it. I wasn't understanding it in it's proper context. I was only understanding it with a modern eye. So I fasted and prayed about it and started driving to the temple. The second I stepped foot and that sacred ground, the spirit told me what I already knew; but did so reminding me what my wife had said. I have never doubted the Book of Mormon since my mission. But now I will never doubt the process either.
Thank you again for your videos. They help me so much with my writing process. You have so much more material that I haven't obtained yet. You've really made an impact on my book list. Much to my wife's frustration. But she can't say much. She has a whole room with of crapbook - I mean scrapbook stuff so she doesn't have much room to talk. Keep it up.
Thanks for the comment. You come from an amazing heritage! Joseph Knight was an amazing man and helped contribute right at the outset of the restoration and he and his family continued on faithfully through much persecution and sacrifice. Glad you got through the struggle over the seer stone - for me, it makes the translation of the Book of Mormon even more miraculous, particularly in light of the video I did entitled “Book of Mormon: Match It!” I had to crack up about the scrapbook room comment…I have one of those in my house too 😁
It is true that we should not listen to those things that plant doubt in our mind or hearts that God lives, that the church and kingdom have been restored in the last days. But this video has helped me realize that it is a good and righteous thing to be learned in the true history of things that happened, cultures and practices etc. I have a friend that is gifted with a divining rod, and did watch him use two wires that would cross as he found a spring on our ranch. I could not do it ,but when he placed his hands upon my shoulders, it worked for me also..! I am so impressed with this good brother and his spiritual talent of gathering information and teaching it To us in a way that is new and exciting. Thank you
Thanks for the comment
really enjoyed your presentation of this info
So the plates were not necessary?
Most eyewitness accounts appear to indicate the plates did not seem to be directly involved in most of the translation, (even if Joseph would have been directly looking at them, it doesn’t appear he was able to generate any text without looking directly instead at translation aids). So in one sense this would make it appear that the plates weren’t required; however, the plates I believe were very necessary - it helped everyone to appreciate the ancient nature of the record and the tangible physical aspect of what God had called Joseph to do. Without the plates, Joseph would have been severely handicapped in the production and reception of the translated product.
Here is an excellent article discussing this very topic at Book of Mormon Central:
knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/why-were-the-plates-present-during-the-translation-of-the-book-of-mormon
I copy/pasted one of the concluding paragraphs to their article here:
“These insights-both practical and spiritual-suggest that rather than being unnecessary, the physical plates may have been essential to the translation process. The engraved characters copied from their pages helped strengthen the faith of Martin Harris and others. Their tangible reality was an ever-present reminder that Joseph’s words were derived from an actual record of ancient prophets. And their veiled presence meaningfully symbolized Jesus Christ’s full participation in the translation.”
I did do 2 videos on Book of Mormon plate witnesses as well. If you are interested, here are the titles and links to those:
David Whitmer: An Irrefutable Witness - Evidences
ua-cam.com/video/cMtwW-KhgsU/v-deo.html
Defending the Book of Mormon Witnesses
ua-cam.com/video/uPZ1mDD1SmU/v-deo.html
Wow this was very very eye opening thank you
Thank you for the comment and glad the video was helpful
Check out the book of Acts and the gift of the The Holy Spirit to the church😊❤ and THE gospel of JOHN on the new birth!
Do you have a transcript of this video?
Yes I do. You can find all the transcripts for the videos on my website latterdaysaintsqa.com. I usually put the direct link underneath the video description but I didn’t see it when I just checked (thanks for your question helping me to realize this - I am just adding it now). Here is the direct link to the transcript for you:
latterdaysaintsqa.com/josephs-seer-stone-culture/
@@latterdaysaintsqa thank you...I enjoy your channel
Thank you!
I just found your channel. It is excellent thank you. I think more members that have questions or doubts should watch your videos to balance the information out there that is contrary to what you present. But it is your enthusiasm that is engaging. I have shared your video with others as I believe your content builds and strengthens faith. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for your kind words and support!!
This channel is utter pricelessness! Really thankful. Quick suggestion on production: a channel like this deserves better sound. Suggest booming a supercardioid shotgun or condenser mic immediately above head and slightly in front, just out of frame. This will give great sound, eliminating room echo. Suggest too, move you forward and change depth of field to slightly blur the background. Love your channel! 💛😊
Glen - I needed you 18 months ago when I was starting!! I upgraded the mic 3 times over that period, due to feedback but never reached perfection. Wish I had cared as much about the production quality as I did about the content! I only have a few videos left until the library is complete so I am just going to stick with what I have to finish (but thanks for the input and positive comments about the channel content!!)
Latter-Day Saints’ Q&A Yes, content is king! God bless!
Very interesting! Thank you!
Thanks!
The gospel is true.
Absolutely!
When you stated that Joseph put his face into a hat to exclude all light and then the stones would light up, it reminds me of how Christ is a light that shines in darkness and brings light (aka knowledge). I really feel it was a physical object that had a very symbolic meaning of Christ
Great insights - thank you for sharing!
Good presentation. Disagree with Mormonism for a variety of reasons but petty things like muh seer stones aren't a valid reason to
I want one.
😁
And in biblical and Lehi' s time they cast lots..