After 23 years are Voyagers still OK?
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- Опубліковано 16 тра 2024
- I am making a trip north from Exeter to Leeds, so on this Sunday I'm going to have over 5 hours aboard a Class 220 Voyager. These much-maligned InterCity DMUs have been on the line since Virgin Trains introduced them in around 2001. Are they wearing well or are they a disaster?
Departure: Exeter, England, UK
Destination: Leeds, England, UK
Distance: 495 km / 308 miles
Duration: 5 hrs 34 mins
Average speed: 89 km/h 55 mph
I was travelling on an Interrail ticket, however example costs could be:
+ Advance First class single: £187.30 / €218,00
+ Advance Standard class single: £42.50 / €49,50
Date of Travel: April 2024
Operator: Cross Country Trains
Motive power: Class 220 Voyager DMU. Built: Bombardier (2000-2001)
Thank you to everyone that supports the channel by subscribing, liking, commenting or just watching these videos. I really appreciate it!
These videos just get better and better but how you missed a Sunday replacement bus service is a near miracle. Thank you.
Yes. I was happy with the diversion for sure.
Thanks for the kind words 👍
Hello. When the route was taken over by Virgin they put on the Voyagers, which were much shorter than the HSTs they replaced, they promised twice as many trains. However, within a short time they cut out the extras and we were left with short trains, hence the desperate overcrowding. Virgin should have been forced either to maintain the promised level of service or to restore the train length.
Yes i was a regular traveller at the cut over and missed the HSTs, primarily due to the comfort and space. The voyagers did shorten the journey with their improved acceleration but the short trains were a disaster.
I remember virgin promising more trains. We said "that's all well and good, but that won't stop EVERYBODY, trying to get on the 17:11 out of Leeds."... which of course they did!
In the end, when the main part of the route stretches all the way from Edinburgh to Plymouth, any service leaving at any time of the day is bound to arrive somewhere on the route during the high peak. And that guarantees overcrowding, even if it is only one section of a very long overall service.
That 17:11 from Leeds, was rammed as far as Sheffield, often to Derby, and sometimes to Birmingham. By the time it arrived in Exeter around 9pm it was pretty empty...
Best wishes to you and thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels Thanks for your response. I also recall that Virgin claimed that the trains were only used by people doing short(ish) journeys - e.g. Taunton - Bristol, Sheffield-Leeds. Of course, now if you want to do Exeter-York, is much quicker to go via London, so I suppose Virgin were right (in a sense).
When the 222's were introduced on the Midland passengers at Kettering & Wellingborough would let the Meridian go in favour of the more comfortable HST following behind.
When there was a mixed service on Virgin as the voyagers were being rolled out, i would try to get the old HST service too. Mainly though due to size of train and hence overcrowding issues.
Thanks for watching 👍
CrossCountry badly need to run longer trains, and hopefully receiving the 221s from Avanti will help, but the Voyagers are also just outdated in general. The bodyshape makes them cramped without the advantages of tilting, there's very little luggage space for a train that serves a major airport, and running pure DMUs through New Street on cross-country routes should not be allowed at this point.
All valid points. There's always been a problem with those narrowing coach sides, which are pointless given the train doesn't tilt.
Thanks for watching 👍
if theyre outdated then IETs are outdated as they share all the characteristics you just described, they even manage to have a cramped interior without a tilting profile. pure DMUs work just fine, especially when they have to be due to varying electrifcation on the XC routes
I totally agree with you regarding overcrowding, when in the uk we have travelled on the voyagers many times in first class and they are great for their age.
Yes. They are just too short!
Thanks for watching 👍
I honestly don't know how UK train companies get away with charging several hundred quid for such a long-ass ride on a such a short-ass train - and standing room only to boot. It's scandalous! Luckily, your video-making skills are always on point and so it was and enjoyable watch for me, at least. Cheers!
Welcome to the UK, where most things cost a fortune and are complete shite.
"I do it, so you don't have to!"... as they say 😀
Thanks for watching another 👍
A brilliant video, I actually quite like the voyagers, I know not everyone likes them but I must admit I enjoy riding on them ,the Cross-country ones just need a refurbishment that's all. Apparently they are plans for a new train station to be built in Torquay ,I think it's gong to be by the hospital. And with the recent palaver that's going on in Brixham, a certain vintage comedy starting stephen Lewis and pat Coombs springs to mind, it was a follow up to On the buses .😊😊
Operators controlling demand by pricing. More profitable than running more trains I presume.
@@somersetbiker or longer trains...
Great Video As Always Johnny
Thanks Paul 👍
Well done, Johnny and Voice Over Man.
Thanks from them both 👍👍
Great video, nice to see trains diverted away from their original routes and the progress on Ashley Downs Station is looking good
Yes. Do say "Hi" if you are at Ashley downs on opening day!
Best wishes to you 👍
4 car train needs to become an 8 car train by the sound of it.
I would say nine!
Thanks for watching 👍
You've hit the nail right on the head! They aren't fit for purpose, they should be at least 6 coaches or operate in pairs. I regularly travel Derby-Birmingham and Derby-Sheffield/Leeds and it's always a case to checking the train formation and standing by the stop board or back end to try and grab a seat in the unreserved coach. As for the fares...... you could save money with an All Line Rover!
Yes. Even on the day they were put into service we could all see they were too short... i think 9 coaches like the 800 series trains would be best. Once they get more 221s, bang a 4 and 5 car unit together and run them permanently in that configuration 🤷♂️
Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels Careful Johnny,your'e trying to apply logic.
I just have found your channel and I love your videos already! (just a thing, add some music for background I think would be great)
Thank you for finding me and for those kind comments. I'm not a big fan of too much music (or very much at all really), so that is a deliberate decision. Sorry. However, I do include music sometimes if the mood dictates it.
I hope with that caveat you'll stick with the channel. Thanks so much for watching this one 👍
Brilliant video and great review of your journey. Needs to be more than 4 cars though.
Shame the window is so dirty.
Hope all is well, take care
In the end, size does matter. 4 cars never was and never will be enough.
Best wishes to you too 👍
Another excellent video Johnny, nice to see parts of my local area in Leicestershire on here . I have been using Dore and Totley station regularly for a few years now, once a huge bottleneck. the additional track and platform are a huge improvement, but the car park is still closed (I think until August) which causes problems on local roads with commuters parking their cars.
Thanks for that. And thanks too for watching 👍
Quite agree re. overcrowding. I've been on many X country Birmingham to York services that have had just 4 cars. The train crew often apologise for the stupidly short train (their words).
Indeed i have heard the same. But apologies ring hollow when it repeats every day...
Thanks for watching 👍
The seats in 1st class remain comfortable after 23 years because no one can afford to sit in them, however the carpets in standard class wear out quickly from all the standing on them. Why oh why do Cross Country still only put 4 car units on busy routes?
Haha love that. So true!
Thanks for watching 👍
I once travelled to Leeds from Liverpool Lime Street. Leave Monday morning, Return Friday evening. Always booked first class advanced singles. In 2020 (before the pandemic) it was £34 each way.. Marvelous journey, except when one gets to Huddersfield. First class had standers on train as there was zero room. Liked my tea and biscuits, free full wifi, return journey on Friday, the greatest steward would save me a bottle of red wine for journey home. Superb staffing. First name terms. All good staff. Trans Pennine at its best. Great train company. I am used to the UK's best train company, Merseyrail. Of whom I was a signalman for. I know my stuff. Trans Pennine Express was approaching Merseyrail standards.. The staff treat you as friends, and will always do everything to help.
Nice to hear the staff are/were so good. Of course the main issue with TPE has recently been the cancellations. My daughter lives in York and has for a long time had no confidence her booked train will appear...
Thanks for your comments and also for your remembrances of you working life 👍
Grand job JH
Thanks Kevin. And thanks for watching another 👍
Good stuff 👍
Thanks! And thanks too for watching 👍
Great video! XC are getting more 221s soon, and in June, im going to go on one for the first time! I do live near a XC serving station but never got around to doing one so I well see your review to see about them!
Yes. We will see how things improve when these 221s cascade down to XC.
Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels PS, Did you hear about the 465 on Southeastern's video?
Great video as always.
@@purplesTrainsUK no I did not. What it is this?
Great to see you coming back up North Jonny H. I might have done that route myself a few times over the last 20 years! Even when I started doing it regularly around 2004 it could get pretty crowded around Birmingham and Bristol. I think I only once missed the Exeter St David's stop and had to come back from Newton Abbot. Those Voyagers aren't bad though when they're not rammed, just maybe not as spacious and comfy as an old HST.
Yes. I miss the old HST.
Hope you and yours are all good. Best wishes to you Mat...
...still need that drink in the Sheffield Tap 🍺
The only problem with the Voyagers is that they didn't make 9 car versions. I know that they sometimes run them as two paired units but even then that's not often enough
Absolutely. It was the big mistake (or lie) from Virgin that they may be shorter units but there would be many more of them... they must be nine cars to cover for the busy sections.
Thanks for watching 👍
Great video. I usually message XC on twitter to reserve a seat beforehand to avoid the overcrowding. If you can get a seat I find them rather comfortable
True and good advice. However i have had seats booked out of Leeds before and have been unable to physically get to the seat due to the tube like crowding inside the train!
Thanks for watching 👍
Went from Taunton to Exeter this morning on a Super Voyageur, standard class. Jumped on board, turned right and found myself in the buffet. Buffet? As the host explained to me, this was an Avanti hand me down. And what a hand me down! A buffet, comfortable seats, adjustable tables , and I would swear it, more leg room.
I have emailed XC to beg them not to refurbish them. How can i identify these units for future planning?
Thank goodness you didn't have to experience the Horrors of Standard Class!!!
Too right. I have done that enough times for work back in the day.
Thanks for watching 👍
Crosscountry (XC) are due to get 12 more 5 car Class 221 Voyagers from Avanti West Coast once the latter's new Class 805 and 807 trains are delivered. Also the entire XC fleet, including the Class 170 Turbostars will be refurbished in the not too distant future. The XC Voyagers have had little done to them since they entered service. Used to travel between Birmingham and Plymouth fairly regularly, no real issues with the trains themselves other than 4 car sets were never going to be enough for long distance travel. I am sure the 12 additional 221s will improve things overall.
Yes. I may return when there are refurbished units on the service. I will also like to see what they do with the woeful turbostars. Many of their seats are completely knackered and the legroom is dreadful
Thanks for watching 👍
I wonder if they’ll deactivate the tilt like they did on the original 221’s they got when they took over the route from Virgin XC
@@gordonprentice7090 my guess is "yes". With a mix of 220 and 221 running diagrams, how could you make use of the reduced journey times using tilt?
I actually wish we had them up in Inverness, by comparison, our ancient class 158 ScotRail fleet is just awful now. They have given up maintaining the air conditioning, the toilets are utterly disgusting with mould and areas behind the door you really wouldn’t want to touch. I recently did an Inverness to Aberdeen trip on a 158, frankly was the worst train trip I have ever had. Was so hot inside I ended up with sweat rashes on my legs. The engine kept going off. It’s like they have given up on maintenance. The Voyagers need refurbishing, but compared to 158 a massive upgrade on comfort
Yes. I think you make a good point there.
Best wishes to you and thanks for watching another 👍
Wow, that's bad. The Northern 158s we have here in Newcastle (for the Chathill line up to Northumberland) are clean as a whistle, highly maintained and very reliable.
Nice video Johnny. I've never liked the fact that CrossCountry never provide enough capacity on their trains, I never see them doubled up, and I heard an irritating rattle in the coach during some of the shots between Birmingham and Meadowhall. Look forward to some more trips in Gods Country Yorkshire
I think that is the primary failure. There are so many large conurbations all along this route, they will always get full for at least part, if not all, the journey.
I think nine coaches is a minimum on this route.
Thanks for watching 👍
Off and you are right about the rattles. Hopefully a refurb could help that...
You should travel standard class to give people a real sense of what it is like. The interiors of these train are not in great shape. Rammed with passengers is the norm in my experience. I really admire the way XC make money.
I would love to have shown standard class in the rammed way it was on my journey, but it is unfair to squeeze through the train disturbing people and pointing a camera in their faces. People do appear in these videos but i do try to limit the intrusion as much as i can 🤷♂️
Thanks for watching 👍
Yeah spot on just ashame you lose signal a lot
A brilliant video Johnny ,hope you are well, I actually quite like the voyagers ,but the Cross-country ones just need a refurbishment. I believe that there are plans for a new train station to be built in Torquay, I think it's going to be built near the hospital. And with the recent palaver in Brixham, a certain vintage comedy staring Stephen Lewis and Pat Coombs springs to mind, it was supposed to be a spin off to On the Buses, but it didn't last long
Thanks! I wait to hear more in the future about the Torquay station. These things always take time.
Thanks for watching 👍
When my parents lived in Huddersfield
and we went to a Teacher's Conference in Exeter
I think we did this journey (and in first class)
that would be 15 - 20 years ago
I don't remember whether the connection from Exeter to Leeds
was a through train but the route seems memorable.
Enjoy Yorkshire!
Yes it will have been back then. That was just the time i was almost commuting between Exeter and Leeds!
I always enjoy Yorkshire! 😃
Thanks for watching 👍
Hi there Johnny, Cross County have refurbished the First Class cabins of the Bombardier Class 220 + 221 Voyager DEMU trains with retrimmed carpets in new moquette, retrimmed seat covers in new moquette and the seat top mounted hand grips have been repainted. It is a shame that you were not offered a sandwich and a packet of crisps as well as your Chocolate Brownie and cup of Tea.
Best wishes and take care. Kind regards, Peter Skuce, St Albans. Hertfordshire.
Yes, I would have liked a little more but at least i got a cuppa and a seat. Which was a lot better than many standard class passengers..
Thanks for watching 👍
Those chunky seats and tray tables have a cartoon-character like appeal, complete with ears. I wish trains didn't have such absurd pricing for close to the travel date--makes spontaneity go right out the window, which is sad. If you just want a fun jaunt out for the day on the spur of the moment, forget it. It's the same here in US for intercity rail. But my local commuter rail has a $10 weekend ticket for ride as much as we want that goes to some appealing places.
Yes, there is very little chance for spontaneity when travelling by train unless you live in or close to London.
Mind you... to be fair, down my way a Devon Day Ranger is a pretty good deal.
Thanks for watching 👍
Solid trains to ride in but
- Not enough legroom for vehicle length
- Should not have adopted tapered tilting profile when did not run on tilt-conpatible WCML
- should have figured out how to gangway 125mph stock
- should have had longer carriages a la original Mk5
Nothing wrong with the trains themselves, but they are not suited to routes with regularly high load factors.
Just what i feel. They are just too small to deliver the high load factors they are bound to face as they travel through so many large population centres.
Thanks for watching 👍
I live in S.Devon, and have to travel a few times of year ‘up north’. I’ve given up using CC as their trains are so scruffy, rammed and expensive. Priced for short hops not long journeys, and as we all know, woefully too short. I drive instead…. To London, I’ll happily use GWR - much more pleasant!
Yes, I can see why you say that. We have friends in Leeds and always drive when it is myself and my wife. The train cannot come close with two of us.
South Devon is well connected to Paddington. As i have to change at Exeter, then i often travel into Waterloo as my family lives on the south west side of the city anyway.
Thanks for watching 👍
Great video cross country are the worst company for not enough seats in standard class. Many time I have to stand for hours and get charged a fortune. 4 carriage train from Cornwall to Newcastle or Scotland is ridiculous.
Agreed. The train length is ridiculous.
Thanks for watching 👍
With that walk-up single fare for first class, you might as well just get the All Line Rover for just a little bit more and get far more for your money! Easiest way to cut down the price of walk up fares is to split ticket, making sure you split at stations that the train will definitely stop at, so you can stay on the same train.
Yes there's a number of workarounds. The app I was using does do split ticketing, but wasn't offering anything on those particular journeys. I didn't mention in the video but i was sneakily using one of the days of my Interrail pass, otherwise there was no way i could have afforded this trip.
Thanks for watching 👍
Yes like most people I have suffered with acute over crowding on XC Voyagers but even when not I have found the standard class cabin claustrophobic and really showing their age with bashed seats, trays and dirty/marked windows. I try to avoid.
Yes they need the refurb for sure. I agree that things are tired and battered... more so in tbe standard class i couldn't show.
One thing i didn't mention was the yellowing plastic trim and also the yellowing lights too.
I will give them another go after the refurb...
Thanks for watching 👍
It's fashionable bordering on obsessional to hate the Voyagers. And people follow people! (Sheeple). I've been travelling on 220s (and 222s in the East Midlands) for all of those 20+ years. They are great units. Very fast acceleration and being diesel, can go anywhere. You're absolutely right that what lets these great trains down, is the low utilization; short trains on busy routes. But that's the operator's fault - not the train!
Yes. Short trains are the problem. Was on a 4-car from Bristol to Exeter only yesterday and it was standing room only...
Thanks for watching 👍
Not just the short forming. It is the fact that XC stubbornly refuse to declassify 1st class despite the extra capacity being needed and the width of these trains are narrow due to the pathetic loading gauge in the UK.
How much to charter a private jet from Exeter to LBA? Those fares are a disgrace - we've got to make train travel belong to the public and not shareholders. And maybe if every person who is forced to stand gets an 80% refund they might make sure there are enough seats for everyone. Remember to boil the water Johnny!
It is a disgrace. If we are going to cut congestion on the roads, then we have to get more people on the trains. But it ain't happening at those prices!
The water is fine in East Devon 😃
Thanks for watching 👍
Hi Johnny, Really enjoyed your trip to Leeds. Some years ago,my wife and I got a train from Bristol Temple Mead...nice station. How come trains in England are so expensive? By comparison trains here in Ireland are cheaper.
I suppose it goes down to politics. 🤷♂️
Thanks for watching 👍
I absolutely detest Voyagers and CrossCountry are generally a disgrace with their sky high pricing. Unfortunately, my regular journeys to Newcastle and Manchester (from Birmingham New Street) means I can't avoid this pathetic company. Their trains power through my own local station (Bromsgrove) which is another source of frustration. I rarely see anything other than a four-car train, almost always heaving with passengers. If you're lucky to get a seat, you are treated to a pretty uncomfortable ride with coaches that should have been refurbished many moons ago. I note that your journey was comfortable enough and you acknowledged the state of (sub)standard class!
All very valid complaints. They needed those extra units from Avanti. And they must have a thorough refit ( not just a kick of paint and new seat covers).
Right now it ain't good enough!
Thanks for watching 👍
Do the Voyager trains usually have tea and snack trolleys? I can't bear a long journey without refreshment!
Certainly on Taunton to Plymouth trains they all do. Beware however; when 2 sets are coupled only the front set is refreshed. On GWR, only sets from London are refreshed . Those that depart Cardiff or Gloucester, enroute for Plymouth and Penzance are unrefreshed throughout the entirety of the journey.
@@colinriley123Thanks for the info. The last time I travelled to the West Country there was a class 50 at the front and there was a buffet car.
As Colin says, you do usually get something. I would add the caveat that in overcrowded trains the trolley cannot operate. This would have been the case in the train i was on in this video.
Simple answer is no.... restricted to a number of flushes in the toilet, then the smell.... oh god the smell.... Same as a Pendo seat wise, but oh the smell...
Oh crikey. I forgot the days of the toilets going out of service one by one during the day as they had backed up and been locked out by the train manager... and yes... the smell
Thanks (!) for those memories 😉
Great video Johnny and some good points. I really dislike Voyager and XC though. How they retain their franchise is a mystery to me.
A fair point. We can't fix the inward sloping cabin sides (for a tilt that isn't there) but with a refurb and with more 221s coming meaning longer train configurations , just maybe it will become a half decent service.
Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels Sounds like polishing turds to me .Get rid.They have never been fit for purpose.
XC don't have a franchise - that's the whole point/problem. They're an open access operator, so receive no subsidy from the government. That's the reason for the sky high fares and lack of investment in more trains, to reduce overcrowding.
@@BobC250 agreed about the state of the trains and high fares. But XC do have a franchise. And it's likely to be extended too.
It would be nice if one was The Bentham Line. I do love this line.
Your wish should be coming true fairly soon... 😉
When I was still working I used to have to travel often between Leeds and Birmingham. I began using X-Country but the overcrowding was so bad that I took to driving to Tamworth and getting a local train from there. I also tried X-Country between Leeds and Edinburgh (another regular trip) but once the Voyagers got onto the East Coast Main Line they had to run at 125mph and the combination of underfloor engines and small wheels led to vibration that made your feet itch! I gave up and changed at York to LNER!
So the conclusion - the Voyagers are too small and unsuitable for their intended purpose. (I have never used X-Country in a private capacity and judging by the prices you quote I never will...)
All very fair comments. I will report back when the refurbished happens. Until then... well... what can i say?
Thanks for watching 👍
Lucky you weren't detrained onto an RBS, having a convenient diversion albeit a lengthy one was a bonus. For a journey of that length would have expected better catering than a tea and a biscuit. Surely the overcrowding can be alleviated by coupling two or three units together.
Yes... i was happy to accept the diversion through Leicester!
The answer to your question is that they don't have enough units to couple them up. Maybe they will if they get more Class 221 voyagers cascaded from Avanti in the future 🤷♂️
Thanks for watching 👍
If I want to travel from Bristol(or somewhere like Exeter) up to say Leeds, York, Newcastle or Edinburgh, rather than get a direct CrossCountry service up there, I'd instead travel via GWR to London Paddington, and then from London King's Cross via LNER or LUMO. Far more comfortable trains to travel on, and with fewer stops enroute makes for a more comfortable journey. CrossCountry stops at umpteen stations between Bristol and the North/Scotland, and with people keep coming and going so often, it makes for a not very relaxing journey. Additionally travelling with GWR and LNER or LUMO is a hell of a lot cheaper than travelling with CrossCountry. There fares are absolutely extortionate!
I absolutely agree. I often take the train that way too. This was a deliberate choice to go on the voyager to see how it was doing...
I haven't covered lumo on the channel so i should tick that one off!
Thanks for watching 👍
This was taken overall a very interesting video. But you never mentioned the biggest drawback with Voyagers. They are noisy polluting diesels. They should certainly not be refurbished. We need to 'get the wires up' over all our main lines. As you must surely have gathered from your recent Swiss and Benelux trips, Britain lags way behind continental Europe when it comes to the electrification of its public transport. (And by public transport I mean buses as well as trams and trains.)
I can guarantee you’ll never see electrification south of Exeter.
Well yes... but of course that depends on govt and public perception of what we should spend our collective money on.
Much more electrification can be done for sure. Just needs the will, which is not there at the moment.
Best wishes and thanks for watching another 👍
I think people just hate on the Voyagers because everyone does and they dont want to stick out. Id be blaming the operators, if the comfort is that poor then they should refurb it with better seating. The units themselves run fairly smoothly on long distance runs and i personally really like them.
Yes, I'm going to stick with the view that you are bound to hate them if a 4 or 5 car train rolls in and you are left standing in the corridor or jammed into an aisle seat every time you travel.
Is this a fault of the design? Maybe not... if you are asked to design a short train that's what you do. All XC trains should be 9 cars imho
Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels I agree Cross Country as a whole has way too many services and far too little stock. I can feel the Hitcahi order coming before 2026 and mabye a 170 supplement because even on my local Leicester to Cambridge route (3 car 170s) theyre standing room only regularly
I don't understand the hate for these trains, yes they are getting old but they still work fine. I've ridden on them many times and I didn't have any issues.
Well yes. Are they still "ok" was my specific text. I think they are OK. Not anyone's favourite train probably. Most of the comments reflect the primary issue that they are just too short...
Thanks for watching 👍
Never liked them compared to a HST or a Locomotive & MK2 coaching stock train which is more comfortable
How come CrossCountry was on diversion along the Midland Mainline?
Track works around Burton on Trent.
Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels Thanks great video aswell i do love the 220 221 and 222 great trains dont know why people hate them so much.
Everything that is wrong with railways in the UK these days. Operators know that their trains are over crowded but all they do is look at the revenue
Given these train have been getting overcrowded for 23 years, you may have a point...
Thanks for watching 👍
I remember being caught on a yoyager between Exeter and Plymouth on a hot summer day coming from Aberdeen (cross country). Thankfully it broke down, and I got transferred to HST. The smell of wee wee onboard the voyager was overpowering; and the train was mobbed. I would avoid these trains at all costs. Second class is usually standing room only as these trains are only 4 cars long.
Yes, i forgot to mention the fault from the early days where the toilet water collectors would overflow... yuk
Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels That happened 2018.
@@undertheradar001 oh...
Far better to travel via Paddington and Kings Cross and avoid the CrossCountry Voyager overcrowding - standard class advance fares from £36.30 and 1st class from £81.25. it should simply not be acceptable to run weekend trains as 4 Car sets, knowing that will not be enough seats.
I totally agree. I have done Exeter to Leeds or York via London many times for that exact reason. But on this trip, I wanted to specifically look at the old Voyager, so I "took one for the team" so to speak!
Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels As you travel this route frequently, the current split ticketing best buys are via Exeter - Grantham and Grantham - Leeds, of course using your Railcard & planned sufficiently in advance to get Advance tickets.
Not very often someone is visiting Leeds. Your first journey will probably go via Harrogate to York. My I ask for a trip to Bradford and an investigating why there is no railway connection between the two stations there?
Good point wrt Bradford. I think there has been talk of doing something about that...
I didn't go to York this time or Harrogate...🤷♂️
Best wishes 👍
Just back from Taunton Plymouth return on X Country. i agree with what you say. The sets are noisy, but apart from that, are superior to Class 800s on GWR. They feel more comfortable and have a better ambience. First class in a GWR 800 is a bit like a hospital waiting room. The question is capacity. I came back today in a coupled pair of super voyageurs i.e. 10 cars. Why do X Country do this, and leave single 4 car units to ply their trade. Why not always couple 4&5 or 4&4 and leave super voyageurs to be solo units?
There must be a technical reason for this, because it seems common sense to me.
Mind, the technical reason could be in competence!
No idea either Colin why they're sending out 4-cars on these long services. I suppose it will be to do with pathing their limited stock over such an insanely long route between effectively Aberdeen and Penzance.
Best wishes to you. Btw just edited one where you get a mention... it's out on Friday 😉
I'm not a fan atall of the combination of CrossCountry and these Voyagers. The narrow bodied carriages have a very cramped feel to them compared to other trains, and they are often very overcrowded(especially when they are running as just a 4 or 5 car unit!), making for not very comfortable journeys. A number of times I've got on them to travel from say Exeter to Bristol or Birmingham to Bristol. Get on them and already loads of people on them because the trains have come from places like Penzance or Edinburgh and LOADS of stops enroute. I've struggled to be able to find a window seat, so usually have to make do with an aisle seat sat next to someone and unable to enjoy the view out the window. If there are any so called "window" seats free, they've usually tended to be ones that have only got about half a window view or none atall!!!
Yep. That is the experience of many people on these services...
Thanks for watching 👍
the cramped interiors isnt a great critisism anymore as the IET is now the alternative and it too has a cramped interior
I've seen a lot of youtubers complaining of the extortionate train prices there. They do seem unreasonably expensive! Why is that??
Running a railway is expensive, simple as that. The usual argument is how much Govt subsidy there should be but that opens a whole new can of worms
It is down to not just the govt, but also the public will. My strong belief is that a well funded (therefore cheaper) railway network would have increased ridership, thereby improving road transport by taking traffic off the roads. But that argument generally doesn't win the day (unless you are in London)
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Hmm in my opinion Voyagers were never ok, compared with what they replaced.
Certainly a view. I was regularly riding the line when they came in. The service was quicker than the Virgin hst but the sets were too short 🤷♂️
Under floor engines always make the train noisy too..
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They're alright but the trains need to be much longer and the fares are exorbitant, which is not a good incentive to use public transport. Personally I dont think the government cares about getting people onto trains at all. They'd rather everyone drove and paid road tax.
I agree it is a daft idea to make the trains so expensive. Road users benefit from good train services as it then reduces traffic congestion. But govt and people do not see it that way. 🤷♂️
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They are not the best but somehow get you from a to b
Certainly not the best... functional? Serviceable? Maybe... just too small...
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Cramped and noisy things!
Indeed, that is a very common view!
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'Still' ok?
Yep. I think they are good enough trains to be referred to as "OK". Though I know many disagree. 😀
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try second class like the majority ,absolute terrible
I find it ok... as long as it isn't overcrowded!
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I’m sorry a 4 car set for an almost 6 hour journey. And why is it still a DMU. Isn’t like 90% of the route electrified. I thought you English loved power switching trains. Why isn’t this route run by some class 800s
All because of money I'm afraid...
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Hitachi don't manufacture anything less than 5 cars long.Thats way too much capacity for Cross Country.
800s arent used because theyre worse. no XC route is 90 percent electrified apart from the bournmouth routes, but good luck equiping an 800 for DC third rail. theyre DMUs because they work just fine as DMUs, there was a plan to equip the voyagers with a pantograph coach but it was ditched long ago
@@Trainman10715 this route is run by EMR right. Didn’t they jus buy Class 810 dual powered 5 car train sets from Hitachi. To replace both the 222 and 180 sets.
And how is the 800 series worse, it’s literally the only modern high speed train the UK has right now.
@@MrJimheeren no, emr run the midland mainline, which only runs common to the XC route for about 40 miles. And you wouldn't want 810s for most of the reasons you wouldn't want 800s. 800s are worse for several reasons, namely ride quality, reliability, and vastly inferior diesel acceleration. Being "modern" is irrelevant, infact it's normally a bad thing, what matters is what benefits the trains offer, an 800 offers nothing over a voyager
There's only one thing worse than a Voyager . . . Leeds itself!
That's harsh! (..albeit very funny)
Harsh. I like Leeds !
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There's no bloody way a Voyager is better than Slough.