I work for Genesis and have used the ppdraw to find a draw coming from the interior junction box works great, also can be used to change vehicle battery so you don't lose memory.
That meter is pretty cool that it does the conversion to amps on the display for you. The obd tool isn’t very practical for the majority of drain issues I see though where it’s either intermittent or it’s networks awake so it’s 5 plus amps that would drain the internal battery pretty fast.
@@autodiagyt yup was thinking the same thing, Jake! For long-term testing of sizeable draws, a battery charger and in-series ammeter at the battery post is definitely the best option 👌
Extra tip: the PPDRAW can also be used as a memory saver whenever the battery is disconnected or replaced. It has a 12v battery inside of it and does need to be recharged every so often.
I bought that a few months ago. It is a fantastic tool. I especially love the Bluetooth feature so I can graph it to a bigger screen while I'm doing other things. Edit: I'm referring to the PPDRAW
these are so cool!!! it can take days to find a draw on some cars I have been a mechanic for 45 years and said I am not going to buy any more tools but I can not live without this, you can also use the draw tester to keep memory alive on a battery replacement
Thank you so much for going out of your way of your normal scope of work to teach us about tools and diagnostics. Quality parts, chasing draws, quality vs bad tools, loving all of it! Who makes the fuse leads?
That’s a more elaborate version of the Amp Hound. If it can help someone fix a car correctly the first time then there’s more happy customers. A win win.
That's an amazing tool. I use to have to place an ammeter between one of the cables running to a battery post and pull each fuse one by one to check where the parasitic drain was running. Very fiddly, slow and awkward and as you say, pulling a fuse could confuse the situation even more. Brilliant tool. Another great video! I'll have to see if there's a cheaper way to create a DIY tool that does the same ;)
Be careful of the trap you may be setting yourself up for: the tool is now "backfeeding" through the obd port, and whatever fuse normally supplies the obd port (usually the cigar lighter fuse) will now also show up as an amp draw--but it's really the tool supplying power to the parasitic draw. So it'll look like you have an extra draw. edit: also, although the powerprobe tool may be able to supply 10 amps through this "backfeed" the car itself may only supply the obd port via a 5 or lesser amp fuse. You may not be able to reach the full limits of the tool if the car is more limiting.
I had a 20 amp draw on a town and country. Nothing was on fire. The fuel pump relay was stuck and the fuel pump was running all the time. A common problem on Chrysler/dodge products. The relay is on the fuse box circuit board. You can either replace the fuse box or buy a kit to relocate a new fuel pump relay outside of the fuse box
@ no, it was not stuck to the circuit board. They are soldered to the board ( intregal to the board) the relay was stuck closed to itself. You cant pull it out and simply replace it. You either wire a new one outside the board or you replace the whole board.
The OBD II DLC +12V power feed is usually protected by a 5 Amp fuse, but may be as low as 2 Amps depending on the OEM. It is faster to use a current clamp to measure roughly what the parasitic draw, and if this draw is dynamic (changing, periodic, better to measure with a scope). Using a clamp meter can be done without disconnecting the battery, which is good because we want to power the vehicle with a sustainer and charge the battery at the same time (usually with parasitic draw the battery is under charged), and if by chance a large inrush current load is activated the battery is there to handle the surge current. Today I think most master technicians will use a thermal camera instead of looking at voltage drop across fuses. If you want to use the fuse charts and look at voltage drop it is best to have a very accurate DMM in the millivolt range to get the needed resolution. However this feature is an expensive one in a DMM (see Fluke 87V, I have an older Fluke 87 and I can attest to its resolution). The biggest issue with looking at fuses with a DMM is some automotive cartridge fuse types (e.g. FMM, FMS, JCASE, MCASE, MCASE+) do not have top test terminals like an ATC blade fuse. The reason for the high current on parasitic draw, and one of the reasons you do not want to disconnect the battery, is that some parasitic draw problems actually only occur after key on engine off to key off (ignition off). Unfortunately, when you go key on you can draw a considerable amount of current which will usually blow an in line DMM fuse even on 10 Amp scale.
I’ve never seen them before, damn sure a lot faster then using my my ol Fluke 88. Guess I know what to ask Santa for now 👍. Thanks for the info. I always seem to pick up something from your videos, even if it’s just an opinion with a solid argument for why. Keep up the great work
Oh you mean the multimeter with those special leads? That should work with 24v since it’s just doing a mathematical calculation converting the voltage drop across the fuse to the chart you can find online for each size and rated fuse.
This is great for a tool junkie , however using logic and tried and true diagnostic techniques is just as effective and utilizes tools most technician's should already have
I agree 100%. I don't need these 2 tools. I'm happy with what I have and I can be just as quick. I do have the Power Probe magnetic multimeter probes. Those are nice. They came with my PP breakout box.
Funny true story, at a greased Pinocchio shop, the Pinocchio owner called me a liar when I explained voltage drop across a fuse on a live circuit, to prove me wrong he hooked up an ohmmeter to a fuse on the bench and said you see there is no resistance.
That's funny. I can't believe he's the owner and doesn't know about voltage drop. As ScannerDanner always says: "No current flow; No voltage drop". It amazes me how many mechanics don't know this basic stuff.
😂there are certain technical issues. But you'll figure it out as you learn by trial and error. Also, Amazon has a cheap version of what you describe that clips onto a 12 volt source. But that also has issues and I've found it imperative to be comfortable with soldering circuit boards.
@@bernardocisneros4402 some cars arrive in uncertain conditions. So if the ignition is on and running power to the vehicle (even with engine off) the circuit board can very slowly overheat. Also, one of the adapters arrived sounding like a rattle cause one of the diodes had fallen off the circuit board. I just re soldered the piece back on without problems. Since it was a bulk purchase, I could see the quality control was not standard for all of them. Wondering how the power probe version would handle these hiccups (slow overdraw, high current short, potential cross polarity errors).
@@n9wox Nope, some of the newer Audi/VW are solid plastic, definitely no cut outs, always pissed me off. You have to take very thin probes up the fuse to touch the spade portion.
When / if you find a fuse that has amperage going through it (or a voltage drop in the mv range) you then look up what consumer that fuse powers, and that is your source of the amperage draw (in theory.......assuming the draw matches the amperage going through that fuse)
I'm a bit confused by video... WHY use the 2 different tools for trying to figure out parasitic draw? Why not just use the 2nd tool (DM300Auto) - for both the battery connections AND then the fuses? Seems like it would do both just fine, unless i'm missing something?
The PPDRAW (the one that plugs into the OBD2 port) has an internal battery that powers the car when the car battery is disconnected. So with the battery connected to the car you plug the PPDRAW into the DLC, close your latches, and wait for all the systems to enter quiescence, then disconnect the main battery. The PPDRAW displays the total draw, and you can then proceed seeking out the draw with your meter or Amp Hound, and you don't have to wait for the car to enter quiescence again (like you would if you disconnected the battery to measure the draw and then reconnected it). I've had both of these tools since the summer and they really make it quick.
fuses would show a (small) resistance under load. the measured resistance across the fuse under parasitic load can be interpolated from the fuse's known resistance at its rated amps to estimate the current.
No, thanks. The "Amp Hound" with the Power Probe tips on the end of my leads works just as good if not better than this. I got the PP tips with my PP breakout box.
Thanks you as always very info video . I was in Sema too .Too many excitingh stuffs to see ,but not enough time . I passed by Power proble boot late last day ,missing to check out DM300 meter . I also went to see Picoscope at Aapex and hopefull will be my Xmas gift to myself ;)
I don’t have the pleasure of working on those. My guess would be you need to make super thin back probes with guitar strings and shove them on the edge to make contact and get a voltage reading. Or get a really good thermal camera with a macro lens and check for loaded fuses that way.
I struggled with a intermittent draw on my Superduty that only happened once every few weeks. Turned out to be the alternator. I found it by touching the alternator and it was hot.
ua-cam.com/video/EamSfMtC2T8/v-deo.htmlsi=0DC_QelUMV71DzZD Curien has had this option for a long time. Can also record drain for 3 days if needed to an SD card you can view on PC.
the kid at work hooked his multimeter directly across the + and - on the battery at work ... I saw smoke come out of his meter. He claims to have mechanic degrees from college.
Your ego is talking. If you're as good as you think you are, you wouldn't need to make comments like that. This guy is a humble man who is more than likely 10x smarter than you.
@@SOP83 He's a fool for not having a fused ammeter in his multimeter. Almost all multimeters today have at least a 10 Amp fuse in their ammeters. Maybe he had a cheap meter. I agree with Isaacharo5501, he's probably a UTI grad. I don't even know if you can consider UTI a college. I would just call it a trade school.
Nice demo and slick tools! Now we need to see them in action on some real live case studies 😊
I work for Genesis and have used the ppdraw to find a draw coming from the interior junction box works great, also can be used to change vehicle battery so you don't lose memory.
That meter is pretty cool that it does the conversion to amps on the display for you. The obd tool isn’t very practical for the majority of drain issues I see though where it’s either intermittent or it’s networks awake so it’s 5 plus amps that would drain the internal battery pretty fast.
@@autodiagyt yup was thinking the same thing, Jake! For long-term testing of sizeable draws, a battery charger and in-series ammeter at the battery post is definitely the best option 👌
It works. My problem parasite is the IRS.
Extra tip: the PPDRAW can also be used as a memory saver whenever the battery is disconnected or replaced. It has a 12v battery inside of it and does need to be recharged every so often.
I bought that a few months ago. It is a fantastic tool. I especially love the Bluetooth feature so I can graph it to a bigger screen while I'm doing other things.
Edit: I'm referring to the PPDRAW
these are so cool!!! it can take days to find a draw on some cars I have been a mechanic for 45 years and said I am not going to buy any more tools but I can not live without this, you can also use the draw tester to keep memory alive on a battery replacement
I have both of these and use them several times a week,it's a game changer and time saver
Thank you so much for going out of your way of your normal scope of work to teach us about tools and diagnostics. Quality parts, chasing draws, quality vs bad tools, loving all of it! Who makes the fuse leads?
That’s a more elaborate version of the Amp Hound. If it can help someone fix a car correctly the first time then there’s more happy customers. A win win.
Best video I’ve seen actually explaining the ppdraw tool. Definitely going to have to look into that.
I hv the tool and love it, went out to eat was paired to my phone and watched graph at different times, blue tooth
Man that's awesome multimeter with built in different type of fuse setup , plus it gives you the amperage. Time to buy both soon.
I bought one on monday its a game changer
When you said, “If you got a 10-amp draw on the car, you got something on fire.” I had a good laugh. I don’t know why, but that was just really funny.
when mechanics laugh it is a customers bad day...
That's an amazing tool. I use to have to place an ammeter between one of the cables running to a battery post and pull each fuse one by one to check where the parasitic drain was running. Very fiddly, slow and awkward and as you say, pulling a fuse could confuse the situation even more. Brilliant tool. Another great video! I'll have to see if there's a cheaper way to create a DIY tool that does the same ;)
Thanks man! Great content; great comments as well. Very valuable info!
Nice video, love those magnetic leads/ smart!!!
Those Power Probe tools are game changers. A direct read-out is very convenient. I will be looking to purchase both tools.
Fine job
Be careful of the trap you may be setting yourself up for: the tool is now "backfeeding" through the obd port, and whatever fuse normally supplies the obd port (usually the cigar lighter fuse) will now also show up as an amp draw--but it's really the tool supplying power to the parasitic draw. So it'll look like you have an extra draw.
edit: also, although the powerprobe tool may be able to supply 10 amps through this "backfeed" the car itself may only supply the obd port via a 5 or lesser amp fuse. You may not be able to reach the full limits of the tool if the car is more limiting.
I had a 20 amp draw on a town and country. Nothing was on fire. The fuel pump relay was stuck and the fuel pump was running all the time. A common problem on Chrysler/dodge products. The relay is on the fuse box circuit board. You can either replace the fuse box or buy a kit to relocate a new fuel pump relay outside of the fuse box
Funny you should mention that. I saw an outside fuel pump fuse on Rainman Rays channel the other day. Now we know why. Thanks
@@mikesabin8568 a relay stuck to a circuit board? The horror
@ no, it was not stuck to the circuit board. They are soldered to the board ( intregal to the board) the relay was stuck closed to itself. You cant pull it out and simply replace it. You either wire a new one outside the board or you replace the whole board.
The OBD II DLC +12V power feed is usually protected by a 5 Amp fuse, but may be as low as 2 Amps depending on the OEM.
It is faster to use a current clamp to measure roughly what the parasitic draw, and if this draw is dynamic (changing, periodic, better to measure with a scope). Using a clamp meter can be done without disconnecting the battery, which is good because we want to power the vehicle with a sustainer and charge the battery at the same time (usually with parasitic draw the battery is under charged), and if by chance a large inrush current load is activated the battery is there to handle the surge current.
Today I think most master technicians will use a thermal camera instead of looking at voltage drop across fuses. If you want to use the fuse charts and look at voltage drop it is best to have a very accurate DMM in the millivolt range to get the needed resolution. However this feature is an expensive one in a DMM (see Fluke 87V, I have an older Fluke 87 and I can attest to its resolution). The biggest issue with looking at fuses with a DMM is some automotive cartridge fuse types (e.g. FMM, FMS, JCASE, MCASE, MCASE+) do not have top test terminals like an ATC blade fuse.
The reason for the high current on parasitic draw, and one of the reasons you do not want to disconnect the battery, is that some parasitic draw problems actually only occur after key on engine off to key off (ignition off). Unfortunately, when you go key on you can draw a considerable amount of current which will usually blow an in line DMM fuse even on 10 Amp scale.
I have a parasitic draw that cannot be tested. It's my girlfriend
Or disney +
That's a money draw.
😂😂😂😂
Life is one big joke.
😂
Just have to be carefull with the ppdraw bought it when it came out found out the hard way it blows fuses on bmw and euro vehicles
I’ve never seen them before, damn sure a lot faster then using my my ol Fluke 88. Guess I know what to ask Santa for now 👍. Thanks for the info. I always seem to pick up something from your videos, even if it’s just an opinion with a solid argument for why. Keep up the great work
An alternative is the Cal-Van Amp Hound.
I have the PPDraw now I'm going to look at that meter
❤it
Enjoy your weekend with all your family around you, my mentor
Definitely need that ppdraw
very nice!
Thank you!
Will all of those work on a 24 volt system? Other than the OBDII of course. I work with heavy equipment.
Oh you mean the multimeter with those special leads? That should work with 24v since it’s just doing a mathematical calculation converting the voltage drop across the fuse to the chart you can find online for each size and rated fuse.
Oh boy I bet someone got some free power probe swag this past week or two….. 😂 It’s alright though as you earned it!!
Amp Hound 2 works well too.
Dude I need to get my hands on this setup
First thought (re the probes): RTFM! 😁
I need one!
Just do a milli volt test at the fuses without unplugging battery .
This is great for a tool junkie , however using logic and tried and true diagnostic techniques is just as effective and utilizes tools most technician's should already have
Logic? Apparently you haven't worked with most of the techs I have had to 😂
I agree 100%. I don't need these 2 tools. I'm happy with what I have and I can be just as quick. I do have the Power Probe magnetic multimeter probes. Those are nice. They came with my PP breakout box.
Funny true story, at a greased Pinocchio shop, the Pinocchio owner called me a liar when I explained voltage drop across a fuse on a live circuit, to prove me wrong he hooked up an ohmmeter to a fuse on the bench and said you see there is no resistance.
That's funny. I can't believe he's the owner and doesn't know about voltage drop. As ScannerDanner always says: "No current flow; No voltage drop". It amazes me how many mechanics don't know this basic stuff.
@@bernardocisneros4402 I guess it is not that basic LOL
That interesting. That just made me realize that you can use a bench power supply to do this. Just need a obd cable to butcher. Nice!!
😂there are certain technical issues. But you'll figure it out as you learn by trial and error. Also, Amazon has a cheap version of what you describe that clips onto a 12 volt source. But that also has issues and I've found it imperative to be comfortable with soldering circuit boards.
@@JAERepair What issues have you found with OBD2 adaptor that clips onto a 12V source?
@@bernardocisneros4402 some cars arrive in uncertain conditions. So if the ignition is on and running power to the vehicle (even with engine off) the circuit board can very slowly overheat. Also, one of the adapters arrived sounding like a rattle cause one of the diodes had fallen off the circuit board. I just re soldered the piece back on without problems. Since it was a bulk purchase, I could see the quality control was not standard for all of them. Wondering how the power probe version would handle these hiccups (slow overdraw, high current short, potential cross polarity errors).
When will they be available in uk?
Hi, I am wondering if I can get the draw tester in australia. It is a very handy tool but I could not seem to find it to buy it in australia market.
How to measure the voltage on a fuse covered from the top?
The fuse usually has a couple of very small cutouts in the plastic to put a probe.
@@n9wox Nope, some of the newer Audi/VW are solid plastic, definitely no cut outs, always pissed me off. You have to take very thin probes up the fuse to touch the spade portion.
@@nickpappas4133 yep, *usually*
TAKE MY MONEY!
Is there a part number/link for the fuse tester? Release date?
DM300auto
awesome
Great
I can't justify the cost of the tool over time saved at the frequency i see this problem.
but it and return after job done 😂
I still don’t get it. So the amperage draw on the fuse tells you what?
You measure voltage drop across the fuse, which then can be translated to current draw based upon fuse type.
When / if you find a fuse that has amperage going through it (or a voltage drop in the mv range) you then look up what consumer that fuse powers, and that is your source of the amperage draw (in theory.......assuming the draw matches the amperage going through that fuse)
@ oh, I see now. Thanks for that.
What is the tool number on this device? I wanna make sure I get the right one.
POWER PROBE DM300AUTO MULTIMETER looks like matco is the only one who has it in stock atm, students get it for like 200 bucks.
I'm a bit confused by video... WHY use the 2 different tools for trying to figure out parasitic draw? Why not just use the 2nd tool (DM300Auto) - for both the battery connections AND then the fuses? Seems like it would do both just fine, unless i'm missing something?
The PPDRAW (the one that plugs into the OBD2 port) has an internal battery that powers the car when the car battery is disconnected. So with the battery connected to the car you plug the PPDRAW into the DLC, close your latches, and wait for all the systems to enter quiescence, then disconnect the main battery. The PPDRAW displays the total draw, and you can then proceed seeking out the draw with your meter or Amp Hound, and you don't have to wait for the car to enter quiescence again (like you would if you disconnected the battery to measure the draw and then reconnected it). I've had both of these tools since the summer and they really make it quick.
Rewatch the video, he explains Why the 1st tool is needed.
@@VorsprungDurchNik Thank You for the reply... Does the magnetic fuse tester leads come with the DM300Auto, or is that an aftermarket product?
@dahrfry5011 They come with the DM300, but I think you can get them separately as well
No need to respond... i found out...
How do you get a voltage drop off a fuse it’s basically a piece of wire
And current draw this would only work if the fuse was open. Very confused
fuses would show a (small) resistance under load. the measured resistance across the fuse under parasitic load can be interpolated from the fuse's known resistance at its rated amps to estimate the current.
@@EmperorCrzyDmnd wouldn’t that be like micro amps?
Because one is a constant supply the other side is draw so ams is like flow think of it as a liquid so you looking for a leak or a break
The fuse gives you access to to the circuit to diagnose it. Instead of having to splice the wire to measure voltage
No, thanks. The "Amp Hound" with the Power Probe tips on the end of my leads works just as good if not better than this. I got the PP tips with my PP breakout box.
Your "Wheel Hub Cleaner Kit" link sends you to brake caliper hooks. 😠
I will double check that and correct it, thanks for letting me know!
Same with the Kroil oil
Add 0:23, is that Jake?
Yes he came by and watched us film and talked with us afterwards. Super nice guy!!
Trying to find which meeter that is. I have the other device coming. Isbit the dm300?
Thanks you as always very info video . I was in Sema too .Too many excitingh stuffs to see ,but not enough time . I passed by Power proble boot late last day ,missing to check out DM300 meter . I also went to see Picoscope at Aapex and hopefull will be my Xmas gift to myself ;)
Call me when they figure how to test the draw on all the fuses that are covered in plastic and don’t have test points
Yeah, I ran across that. It’s a bad design.
Are you talking about cartridge fuses?
Thermal camera
👍
Good video. U didn't have link for multimeter u was using.
Thanks for watching! Unfortunately they said it’s only available through Matco right now. I’m sure that’ll change soon though.
Nice tool
@@theroyaltyautoservice thank you for the information
OK OK OK....what about the dang idiotic cartridge fuses? Especially the newest mini cartridge lol
I don’t have the pleasure of working on those. My guess would be you need to make super thin back probes with guitar strings and shove them on the edge to make contact and get a voltage reading. Or get a really good thermal camera with a macro lens and check for loaded fuses that way.
@@markm0000 the thermal camera should be everyone's next purchase before this
I’m not sure this will work on gateway cars.
I think it will. It is not feeding over the data line. It just needs the two standard pins for ground and 12V supply.
athermal camera should be everyone's next purchase before this
I struggled with a intermittent draw on my Superduty that only happened once every few weeks. Turned out to be the alternator. I found it by touching the alternator and it was hot.
Too expensive 10 dollars of electronics.
Scotty Kilmer already tested this awhile back
ua-cam.com/video/EamSfMtC2T8/v-deo.htmlsi=0DC_QelUMV71DzZD
Curien has had this option for a long time. Can also record drain for 3 days if needed to an SD card you can view on PC.
Never don't try thermal first.
Why do they have to break everything down Barney style for auto technicians? Every tech should know how to use a traditional DMM!!!
the kid at work hooked his multimeter directly across the + and - on the battery at work ... I saw smoke come out of his meter. He claims to have mechanic degrees from college.
@SOP83 sounds like a UTI grad
Your ego is talking. If you're as good as you think you are, you wouldn't need to make comments like that. This guy is a humble man who is more than likely 10x smarter than you.
@@SOP83 He's a fool for not having a fused ammeter in his multimeter. Almost all multimeters today have at least a 10 Amp fuse in their ammeters. Maybe he had a cheap meter. I agree with Isaacharo5501, he's probably a UTI grad. I don't even know if you can consider UTI a college. I would just call it a trade school.
So let me guess, they're like 500 dollars each? lol
Both under $300
Strange it doesn't have capacitance