Randy is a good friend from my past. We played together when he was boosting amps in Prune Music in Mill Valley, CA and then building Mesa Boogie amps in his garage in Lagunitas CA. Boogie was TOTALLY Randy back then! He developed Mesa Boogie into a world class name in his Petaluma factory, along with the amazing ears of Doug West and a great team. I got to watch Randy and Doug develop a couple of amps, and it was TEAMWORK!! Randy would make a couple of changes in the circuitry, and then Doug would plug it in and make suggestions on tonal changes, then randy would make more changes and Doug would try it again, repeating until they had a desired tone. They did this almost every afternoon!!! THAT is how Mesa Boogie tone was developed!! One can bet the farm that Gibson won't/can't do that!!! I'm mind blown that Gibson has the gall to let him go! Mesa Boogie IS Randy Smith!!!!!!!
I’m sorry to see Randall Smith go. I’ve known him since maybe 1971-he worked on a lemon of a Fender Twin that I had then. I don’t see him much these days, but I’d run into him in the mid-2000s when I was going to NAMM shows. I hope he’ll do well; from what I’ve heard, he had a year to go on his contract with Gibson. I’d love to know why he was fired-if certainly doesn’t seem like it was mutual. He founded Mesa/Boogie, for cryin’ out loud, and that should count for something. I’ve been fired from bands before, and it hurts, even when I was already looking for another gig.
I don't believe Randall will be the one who comes out of this with a damaged reputation for being "fired". His legacy should be secure. Gibson on the other hand...hmmmm
one problem … mesa themselves said some years ago they cannot possibly reissue the llc+ , they cannot possibly get the same parts anymore to make it . i can’t remember where i read it , but they talked about reissuing that amp as its so in demand - but they cannot the closest they could do is the jp2c or the mark 5 or 7 circuits . but they said themselves the original parts are not available anymore , it would never be the same amp so perhaps the argument was gibson will reissue it using different parts & transformers & randall said no way , its a piece of history don’t fuck it up i hope the main mesa team walk out & leave gibson in the shit
@@3000KTM this could have been one of the things Randall disagreed with Gibson about that led to this… Gibson wants to reissue; Randall says it can’t be done; gibsons says gtfo
Randall Smith vowed to never make a Mesa/Boogie any where but in the USA. He also has used quality parts. I'm sure Gibson wants to make Mesa/Boogie amps in China and use the cheapest parts they can get. That's my take on why Randall Smith is out.
@@jupitermoongauge4055do you think a Mesa Rect sounds like an SLO? Because if you do, you should go to the doctor and get your ears cleaned of the wax.
@@SteveC-h6o well, there are a number of points that can be made. Fender had already discontinued that Bassman design when Marshall went into production with the JTM45. Mesa ripped off the SLO preamp component for component while the SLO was still in production. The way Mesa ripped off Soldano was way more dishonest and opportunistic than what Marshall did. So what exactly is your point ?
Spot on analysis. Complete clash of cultures. I worked for a tech company that got bought by a global empire. Exact same story. All the innovators left within 36 months and the behemoth ran everyone else off in 6 years.
Same, I have worked in IT for 20 years, and have been bought 4 times in different companies. The purchasing company ALWAYS destroys the culture and the innovators of the company they bought. And it's generally about when I start brushing up my resume...
I needed a new speaker from MB for a combo amp I had, called into there service department, and the guy I spoke to was an arrogant jerk. Acted like he could care less, I was just wasting his time. I was prepared to buy it from them and give them my business, but told the guy to forget about it and just bought one on the used market. A lot of these companies get so big that they think that they are above their customers if you’re not a rockstar.
Randall Smith didnt even like the modern sounding high gain amps, he just made them because thats what there was demand for Boogie having risen to mainstream prominence in the metal era, He would've been much happier making amps like the Lonestar and Filmore. The main development team were all Fender fanboys.
I thought Gibson were dead against ‘knock off’ products and their customers had to play ‘authentic’! Hard to play ‘authentic’ when you play through a ‘re-issued’ amplifier built from non standard parts! Gibson are almost doing a Behringer, the biggest difference of course would be the ‘affordability’ for the masses.
cant someone just ask Randall. And if he doesnt answer, its probably because he can't legally say anything. If Randall still wants to make amps, im sure he can find people to help him, if he even needs it.
Marshall is a weird company because they've allowed other manufacturers to make the amps they should have made. Examples: Bogner Helios, Friedman BE-100, Metropolous Metroplex, etc. They haven't really done much innovation at all in the last 15 years. The Studio Series is all the "innovation" Marshall can muster right now, which is pretty sad. They're literally just 20w versions of the big iron amps. Fairly affordable and they sound good (except for the Jubilee), but there's not really anything new there.
So possibilities include being part of the contract that he exits? Or that he was retiring? Yeah that's not what FIRED means. More likely a disagreement in quality and cost concepts and Randall wouldn't sell out to Gibson... Randall is a man of integrity
You comment about "shitty local techs" is certainly a blanket statement. I've taken various Mesa amps and preamps to a local tech who has always done excellent work, and thank goodness for that - I consider myself fortunate. In general, though, for pretty much any Mesa amp after the Mark III, a tech really needs to know what they're doing, because the complexity will bite them otherwise (and the expense will bite the owner) - components are not well-identified (if identified at all) and may not be located where they might be expected to be in accordance to their in-circuit function. There's a video on UA-cam of a tech changing (as I recall) one little cap in a Mark IV and - OMG - the disassembly and reassembly work that he had to do...
Totally understand and I know there are some local techs, especially in larger cities, that can competently work on Mesa Boogies. Honestly, though, there is no one here in San Diego that I would trust with my Boogie. I used local techs here a few times and the amps always continued to have issues or the original issues were not completely fixed. That's why I think it's worth sending to Mike B or Dave Friedman.
Dude, outstanding video! I couldn't agree more with your take on Randall's departure. This is my first time here and I'll def be back (liked & subbed).
Thanks for lots of good information, and your very plausible conjectures about the issues. (One humble suggestion -- PLEASE try to minimize the use of "right" as a filler in your speech. Probably doesn't bother many listeners, but wow for some of us the constant flow of "right"s makes it very difficult to listen to your presentation. Thanks.)
I think this is spot on. Even if they don't have the exact same parts, they will still try to put out artist signatures and reissues. Maybe he will have his own custom shop for artists or something that are one offs. That would be interesting.
I rarely leave comments on YT posts, but your insights from start to finish were excellent. Makes total sense as to why Randall Smith was fired, pushed out or forced to retire. Gibson does what they do. Thanks for the info about the next gen of amp builders.
You can find their older stuff for a steal! I just bought an express 5 25 which is a 15 year old amp I believe and I am always blown away at how good it sounds . You can find them all day for $700
But the real question is, what future of amps??? The main issue here is that the best recorded sounds we all seek where captured with those old amps. The tone of rock was shaped long time ago and its not chancing any time soon. There are no longer epic bands that gig with new amps and innovative tones, and the ones that do are in a very small nitch of the music landscape.
I understood from an article interview with Randall how important the Output Transformer is to the sound and tone of the Tube Amplifier. I have 25 solid years of Tube Amp repair, restoration and hand-made. Unfortunately Mesa-Boogie is yet another victim of Shareholder Capitalism. No good company is immune from a buy-out. Gibson obviously has other priorities, than making great products these days. A sad but predictable ending to the legacy of a brilliant Designer, Company, Products. The value of “real” Mesa amps has just increased.
Another note - Jonathan Blick is a tech in Milwaukee and is FANTASTIC. He's factory authorized and you can find his contact info on Mesa's website. Most of the local shops use him and one other guy but I prefer Blick.
Hunt Amplification out in Phoenix does amazingly with Boogie amps. Had my tremoverb modded & given a clean bill of health there in 2021 and she still plays hard 💯
The only thing I can say, if Randall left because of Gibsons push just to make money. Man, much respect for him. I remember going into the Hollywoods Mesa store, I was still in high school, and would go and hang out after school. That sweet tube smell. Finally saved enough money to buy a Mesa single rectifier combo. That was good old day. And now I'm looking forward meeting Mr. Freidman when I take my amp for service.
Seems that Randy was on his way out over a year ago, as in Guitar Player article published in June of last year, “Smith has hinted it’s the last Mark amp he’ll design, and while it’s anyone’s guess if that actually turns out to be the case, the Mark VII is a stunning achievement…”(Art Thompson)
Rest assured, people are going to advertise their amps as pre-Gibson and pre-Randall getting fired, mark my words. I loved Mesa but I doubt I'll grab one made after Randall get fired unless I get a hell of a deal.
😂 he called Jim Marshall an amp guy! Jim was not even in the same universe as Randall Smith. Randall is up there with Leo. Ken Bran was behind the Marshall amps, not Jim
I bought a Mesa Baron years ago and called up the company and the dudes that made it still worked there and helped with schmematics for something they made 30 years ago. Very few companies out there that stood by old gear and kept great talent.
This is a good video. I think a lot of your predictions and thoughts are probably right. The only thing is we don't know if tube amps will retain value in 20 years, but I would argue that if that's why you're buying tube amps there are much better and much safer alternatives. Buy them because it's fun to piss off your neighbor and feel the music.
not sure tube amp retain value in 20 years, but tube looks getting expensive, i think in Russia some manufacturers still making new tube today ?? at least few years ago still making, lot recording still using tube and hifi nuts like tube amplifier, tube wont go away soon just like combustion engine i guess .
What you’re saying makes sense. Because the community is very loud and clear about the 3 channel rectifiers not sounding as good as the old 2 channels. No one wants a new rectifier. I 100% agree with those reissues.
I think amp builders are going to join collectives like Boutique Amp Distribution that work from a shared platform with built-in digital features such as cab simulation. The future (as much as it hurts) is digital, and working on some hybrid designs with preamps and tubes but modern digital convenience features will keep analogue and the guys working on it relevant for longer. If this would have happened earlier, maybe Randall would have done work for Synergy to release some of his amps as modules and benefit from the shared knowledge in those circles for the "modern" stuff.
it's depending on the clause of the contract with Gibson they usually stay on for 2 years and they won't be able to start another amp business for 2 or 5 years so they are not in direct competition
There was another UA-camr I listened to the other day who has been a working musician in Nashville. What is interesting is that he believes that Nashville is moving towards getting amplifiers completely off the stage even in larger venues. Since Gibson is based in Nashville I have to wonder how that might be affecting their decision making. I agree that Gibson is probably going to be taking advantage of reissued amplifiers. Proof is the new Falcon series of amplifiers. I have no idea how well those sold, but they aren’t cheap. What I find interesting is that both Fender and Marshall put their name on inexpensive solid state and digital amplifiers. This is bread and butter for them and it works. I would bet that a grand majority of working musicians in Nashville owns a Fender Deluxe and a lot of them may have started off with something like a Frontman.
Interesting theory. If this is their master plan hopefully these “re-issues” you talk about aren’t just modeled/profiled digital versions, just another cheap way out and not the same as the real thing.
@@armandodiaz3485 I doubt they will be. Th it’s not gibsons thing. Theyre a legacy brand for older players with a lot of disposable income. Plus amps cost more than modelers.
I was worried that you were going to make a generic video regarding Mesa but I love the turn you took making declarations and issuing responsibility where it is due, and that is to the POS company that Gibson has become. This is the first video of yours I’ve seen, automatically subscribed.
I wasn't sure about your supposition when I first pressed play on the video but after listening I think you're right: forward thinking amp maker figurehead butted heads with the "vintage lifestyle" company known for never producing anything really new after the 1960s.
I have to argue this point - Gibson tried a bunch of new stuff, but no one bought it. Firebird x as example - brass nuts and motor tuners, blueshawk guitar, etc. no one bought it.
Saying Smith is some victim is a little over the top. His lawyers read the agreements and he signed them, so he knew what he was getting into. Cesar came from Private Equity or that type of financial business. It's what these guys do with companies.
A lot like Leo Fender- he could have just reproduced classic Fender designs at Music Man and G&L (though after Leo passed the new G&L owners did just that), but he never did (the ASAT was the closest to that, and it was pushed into production by Dale Hyatt using Leo's new pickups in a Tele shaped body). These kinds of designers are motivated/obsessed by the idea of progress and innovation and see obsession with profit as abhorrent! Going back to old designs runs against the grain of these people too
Not entirely true regarding the reissue theory. Mesa actually continues the legacy of old circuits by including them in the new designs with a little more refinement. All the technology that was developed throughout Mesa history is then instantiated into the new amps. You get the all the mark circuits in a mkv starting with the mk one. Then you got dynawatt power that was developed in the mid eighties in every el84 based boogie (amazing power amp!) you get the the transatlantic technology where your amp can go from a blackface to a Brit sound with stunning authenticity and no oscillation problems when switching channels. Nobody but nobody has been able to get very real American and Brit sounds in one chassis with no compromise. You can’t start an amplifier company and just dream up a Mark series amp and release it in a couple years. It’s the amalgamation of 55 years of R&D. Obsessive, meticulous design. Randall was most likely fired because of his eccentricity and attention to quality and detail with no compromise. Big corporations seek those types out and terminate them.
S'ils font une réissue améliorée du Triaxis ce serait bien aussi, même si je pense qu'une tête sonne mieux qu'un rack. If they make an improved reissue of the Triaxis it would be nice too, even if I think that head sounds better than rack.
I too am worried about the future of Mesa Boogie. Randall Smith is just one of those guys who not only builds great amps, but has an attention to detail so good, he addresses common design flaws in amps, like the tube bias is a fixed value and grades the tubes to match it so there's no need to take it to a tech to adjust it, or building the chassis in such a way that the amp doesn't just sound good, but it's built like a tank. The Badlander I think is an excellent example of how traditional tube amps can still be relevant in the world of Kemper and Axe FX. Thanks to the Cabclone, you can hook it directly into a DAW or PA without the need for a speaker cabinet and still get real tube tone. Kempers do have more amp profiles on tap, but I personally get option paralysis. I had a Mark 5:35 and each channel had 3 voicings and while it was an amazing piece of kit, I was forever trying to decide which one I liked best, so God knows how I'd cope with a Kemper. But the cool thing about the Badlander is that you have the same clean, mid gain and high gain option on each channel, so you can have two identical clean channels with different settings if you wish. Its voicing options keep it fairly simple, but that added flexibility is a stroke of genius. Well done Randy!!!!! The world of amps is gonna miss him.
Did Gibson also get the Mesa pedals ? In any case I couldn’t afford a Dual Rectifier no matter who makes them. But if Gibson wants to make a mini version like Fretted Americana tried to make Phil X’s Evil Robot Mini years ago which never happened (even though I preordered and then got my money back) that could be cool.
it's karma. randall got his punishment for : 1. stealing mike soldano's preamp and putting it in the rectifier series 2.making our lives complicated with crappy complicated designs, that's why all the techs hate mesas
@@aliensporebomb they don't sound the same since they have a different power section and also it's one thing in the preamp he stole not the whole thing but it's still unfair, he took mike soldanos work and acted like it's his own.
@@KevinCoblerOfficial they don't sound alike but he stole a piece (in the preamp section) from soldano's design and put it in the rectifier ,look it up if you don't believe me ,mike spoke about it in tone talk with dave friedman.
I dream of having some form of Colosseum Mesa I doubt it would happen but the moment they make a mark Colosseum version I am the first in line. I am one of the few weirdos who hate it when companies reinvent the wheel. I love myself heritage companies
This explanation makes perfect sense. If it is the case, then I have even greater respect Randall Smith. Enjoy your retirement Sir! New Subscriber. This was great.
Gibson is known for buying brands and then killing them off. Its what they do best which is alienate the long standing and loyal followers, ruffle up production facilities and employees and eventually force their design and cut corner practices on the brand. Kramer was dead for years and only now is enjoying a slight come back. Firing the guy that drove the complete tidal wave that is MESA is not a step in the right direction by any means. My advise is for people to buy the original Boogies up because soon they will not be produced the same and will likely see a huge price bump. Boogies are hard for newb tech too work on but many well versed techs have no problems repairing them. Ymmv.
Gibson, like Harley Davidson, sells nostalgia. The big thing is, VC's understand selling nostalgia, selling 'lifestyle'... they are sales, marketing, accounting and finance; not engineers. Vale innovation.
Yeah Gibson, Apple and more companies have the same vision of money above what actually got us in the map. This theory makes sense and I’m sure it’s the case
Because Speculators and Short Sellers are running these companies. They only care about grabbing as much as possible because tomarrow may never come mentality. Buyers Beware.
gibson should have acquired marshall - it's the prefect pairing and, frankly, there is a market and space for legacy; some things are so good that they don't need improving upon
Demand is why any company manufacturers products. Les Pauls are IN like never before. People buy reissues because they want the storied design, a sweet R9 is $7k, a real one is $300k! Reissue is driven by reality that best designs made and public wants those tools, that sound the best. Old tube amps, i have a dozen, are temperamental people want a new Mark Boogie because a boosted Fender sounds best for most of our old rock and blues. Smith must have clashed over politics, timing, he warred with someone at Gibson, recently acquired by venture cap firm, so both Gib and Mesa belong to this fund who seems to like making good stuff because Les Pauls right now are sweet
@@eldoradoguitars6456 The company delivering psu's was bust and Mesa were not shipping amps to Europe due to a lack of psu's but told customers it was a capacity shortage 😅 The had to find psu's that fit in their gear.
@El Dorado are 100% correct. This is a *very good* analysis. I'm your newest sub as a result woo-hoo!! - Randy Smith was no doubt a big thorn in Gibson's side. NO DOUBT. A bad apple constantly poisoning the well... a grouchy old man complaining about everything Gibson was up to (I don't blame him BTW). - Randy Smith no doubt had a 3-yr contract with Gibson to get them through the transition. - Also... if he split early, he probably would have forfeited some (large) portion of his pay-out from the sale. Nobody is thinking about that. Well he stuck it out... he's done... he gets the balance of his deal and rides off into the sunset to either start another venture (doubtful at age 80, but maybe...) or spend the next 15 years enjoying the fruits of his labor. THINK "LEO FENDER" - YES Gibson will almost certainly re-issue all the early Mesa-Boogies, and if they're true to their past I might even buy one because I coiuld not afford one in 1975 . That is what Gibson does... if they could make money re-issuing Orville's tenor and bass mandolins and banjo-lins from 1800-whatever you can bet your arse they'd be on it in a heartbeat... Murphy-labbed and all. I deal with M&A backlash on former company owners all the time in a different industry. This is very very standard stuff in the world of M&A and 100% predictable. Everyone wants the money - nobody wants the corporation. But if you take the money.... Cheers folks.
The folks who already have Boogies won't be affected by the departure. Then you have the the purchase of used boogies. Still no affect.... New Boogies from stores who already have a stock. Not affect. Getting Boogies directly from the factory. The workers who work on the floor will continue to make the amps the same way. Gibson won't change the way these things are made. These are the things that make Mesa/Boogie what they are. And especially if Doug West sticks around. Randall Smith may have started Mesa......but the making of the amps are there people....Gibson isn't an amp company. So there shouldn't be a decline in quality. I personally have my Les Paul and don't plain on buying another.
And since this video was made, Gibson is re-issuing the 2c+ 😂😂😂 This video aged perfectly.
Gibson will ruin mesa. Everyone knew that.
It’s was ruined before Gibson got there.
Gibson needs to reissue their own amps but they are too stupid.
It's such a shame...
Gibson is stupid. Cannot believe Randle Smith sold Boogie. 😢
Corporations ruin everything they touch.
Randy is a good friend from my past. We played together when he was boosting amps in Prune Music in Mill Valley, CA and then building Mesa Boogie amps in his garage in Lagunitas CA. Boogie was TOTALLY Randy back then!
He developed Mesa Boogie into a world class name in his Petaluma factory, along with the amazing ears of Doug West and a great team.
I got to watch Randy and Doug develop a couple of amps, and it was TEAMWORK!!
Randy would make a couple of changes in the circuitry, and then Doug would plug it in and make suggestions on tonal changes, then randy would make more changes and Doug would try it again, repeating until they had a desired tone. They did this almost every afternoon!!!
THAT is how Mesa Boogie tone was developed!!
One can bet the farm that Gibson won't/can't do that!!!
I'm mind blown that Gibson has the gall to let him go! Mesa Boogie IS Randy Smith!!!!!!!
I’m sorry to see Randall Smith go. I’ve known him since maybe 1971-he worked on a lemon of a Fender Twin that I had then. I don’t see him much these days, but I’d run into him in the mid-2000s when I was going to NAMM shows. I hope he’ll do well; from what I’ve heard, he had a year to go on his contract with Gibson. I’d love to know why he was fired-if certainly doesn’t seem like it was mutual. He founded Mesa/Boogie, for cryin’ out loud, and that should count for something. I’ve been fired from bands before, and it hurts, even when I was already looking for another gig.
I don't believe Randall will be the one who comes out of this with a damaged reputation for being "fired". His legacy should be secure. Gibson on the other hand...hmmmm
Gibson could fuck up a wet dream my dude.
one problem … mesa themselves said some years ago they cannot possibly reissue the llc+ , they cannot possibly get the same parts anymore to make it .
i can’t remember where i read it , but they talked about reissuing that amp as its so in demand - but they cannot
the closest they could do is the jp2c or the mark 5 or 7 circuits .
but they said themselves the original parts are not available anymore , it would never be the same amp
so perhaps the argument was gibson will reissue it using different parts & transformers & randall said no way , its a piece of history don’t fuck it up
i hope the main mesa team walk out & leave gibson in the shit
lesa should go out the akg /austrian audio / lewitt / heritage way.
Yeah, but they have a warehouse full of those crappy orange 400v caps that they stuff their amps with.
Who says they would reissue the real deal instead of a cheap knock out with different parts for a gross amount of money?
In someway shape or form I always felt the component argument was bullshit.. I could be wrong
@@3000KTM this could have been one of the things Randall disagreed with Gibson about that led to this… Gibson wants to reissue; Randall says it can’t be done; gibsons says gtfo
You nailed it. Didn't expect a iiC+ that quickly, though.
if Smith was concerned about new and inovative he wouldnt have sold to Gibson
He won't live forever, he sold because he was lied to by Gibson that they would not do what they are doing.
He sold his company, he's 80 years old. End of story
The mesa oversized 4x12 will go down in history as one of the greats.
Randall Smith vowed to never make a Mesa/Boogie any where but in the USA. He also has used quality parts. I'm sure Gibson wants to make Mesa/Boogie amps in China and use the cheapest parts they can get. That's my take on why Randall Smith is out.
This is why Gibson is born to fail.
Smith also ripped off the circuit of the Soldano SLO virtually component for component to make the Mesa rectifier. So F him.
@@jupitermoongauge4055do you think a Mesa Rect sounds like an SLO? Because if you do, you should go to the doctor and get your ears cleaned of the wax.
@@jupitermoongauge4055 Marshall ripped off fender, and fender pulled their Ideas from the RCA tube manual. So what's your point?
@@SteveC-h6o well, there are a number of points that can be made. Fender had already discontinued that Bassman design when Marshall went into production with the JTM45. Mesa ripped off the SLO preamp component for component while the SLO was still in production. The way Mesa ripped off Soldano was way more dishonest and opportunistic than what Marshall did. So what exactly is your point ?
Spot on analysis. Complete clash of cultures. I worked for a tech company that got bought by a global empire. Exact same story. All the innovators left within 36 months and the behemoth ran everyone else off in 6 years.
Same, I have worked in IT for 20 years, and have been bought 4 times in different companies. The purchasing company ALWAYS destroys the culture and the innovators of the company they bought. And it's generally about when I start brushing up my resume...
I agree that the future of amps is in refining a Marshall amp, that's why Jason Tong, Friedman and Ceriatone are so poplular.
Interesting vid Mike, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the industry...and tnx for the shout out!
Thanks for watching Jason!
I needed a new speaker from MB for a combo amp I had, called into there service department, and the guy I spoke to was an arrogant jerk. Acted like he could care less, I was just wasting his time. I was prepared to buy it from them and give them my business, but told the guy to forget about it and just bought one on the used market. A lot of these companies get so big that they think that they are above their customers if you’re not a rockstar.
Randall Smith didnt even like the modern sounding high gain amps, he just made them because thats what there was demand for Boogie having risen to mainstream prominence in the metal era,
He would've been much happier making amps like the Lonestar and Filmore.
The main development team were all Fender fanboys.
I thought Gibson were dead against ‘knock off’ products and their customers had to play ‘authentic’!
Hard to play ‘authentic’ when you play through a ‘re-issued’ amplifier built from non standard parts!
Gibson are almost doing a Behringer, the biggest difference of course would be the ‘affordability’ for the masses.
cant someone just ask Randall. And if he doesnt answer, its probably because he can't legally say anything. If Randall still wants to make amps, im sure he can find people to help him, if he even needs it.
How do you evaluate the studio series products released by Marshall in recent years? Is it a re-release or some kind of innovation?Boogie Mark 7？
Marshall is a weird company because they've allowed other manufacturers to make the amps they should have made. Examples: Bogner Helios, Friedman BE-100, Metropolous Metroplex, etc. They haven't really done much innovation at all in the last 15 years.
The Studio Series is all the "innovation" Marshall can muster right now, which is pretty sad. They're literally just 20w versions of the big iron amps. Fairly affordable and they sound good (except for the Jubilee), but there's not really anything new there.
So possibilities include being part of the contract that he exits? Or that he was retiring? Yeah that's not what FIRED means. More likely a disagreement in quality and cost concepts and Randall wouldn't sell out to Gibson... Randall is a man of integrity
You comment about "shitty local techs" is certainly a blanket statement. I've taken various Mesa amps and preamps to a local tech who has always done excellent work, and thank goodness for that - I consider myself fortunate. In general, though, for pretty much any Mesa amp after the Mark III, a tech really needs to know what they're doing, because the complexity will bite them otherwise (and the expense will bite the owner) - components are not well-identified (if identified at all) and may not be located where they might be expected to be in accordance to their in-circuit function. There's a video on UA-cam of a tech changing (as I recall) one little cap in a Mark IV and - OMG - the disassembly and reassembly work that he had to do...
Totally understand and I know there are some local techs, especially in larger cities, that can competently work on Mesa Boogies. Honestly, though, there is no one here in San Diego that I would trust with my Boogie. I used local techs here a few times and the amps always continued to have issues or the original issues were not completely fixed. That's why I think it's worth sending to Mike B or Dave Friedman.
@@eldoradoguitars6456same here w my mesas. They never really got 'fixed' when I'd bring them to guys here in SD
Great video! I really like the perspective you shared.
Thanks so much!
Dude, outstanding video! I couldn't agree more with your take on Randall's departure. This is my first time here and I'll def be back (liked & subbed).
Tequila Ocho!! Great choice, broham. I'd buy a reissue markIIc++ colosseum if it was 3k for sure...but not for the $8k Gibson will sell them for.
Thanks for lots of good information, and your very plausible conjectures about the issues. (One humble suggestion -- PLEASE try to minimize the use of "right" as a filler in your speech. Probably doesn't bother many listeners, but wow for some of us the constant flow of "right"s makes it very difficult to listen to your presentation. Thanks.)
I was loosing my mind after the 100th like and 500th "right"
And lip smacking too
This was concise and well done! Thanks for all the info and tips.
I think this is spot on. Even if they don't have the exact same parts, they will still try to put out artist signatures and reissues. Maybe he will have his own custom shop for artists or something that are one offs. That would be interesting.
I rarely leave comments on YT posts, but your insights from start to finish were excellent. Makes total sense as to why Randall Smith was fired, pushed out or forced to retire. Gibson does what they do. Thanks for the info about the next gen of amp builders.
Really appreciate you watching the whole video and leaving a comment!
This was great! Felt like chatting with a pal that I never found in real life haha
Ive always wanted a Mesa. Way out of my price range though.
You can find their older stuff for a steal! I just bought an express 5 25 which is a 15 year old amp I believe and I am always blown away at how good it sounds . You can find them all day for $700
But the real question is, what future of amps??? The main issue here is that the best recorded sounds we all seek where captured with those old amps. The tone of rock was shaped long time ago and its not chancing any time soon. There are no longer epic bands that gig with new amps and innovative tones, and the ones that do are in a very small nitch of the music landscape.
Speculation regarding Randall Smith's departure aside, I appreciated your insights on Gibson's reissue objectives and the future of amps. Great video!
I understood from an article interview with Randall how important the Output Transformer is to the sound and tone of the Tube Amplifier. I have 25 solid years of Tube Amp repair, restoration and hand-made. Unfortunately Mesa-Boogie is yet another victim of Shareholder Capitalism. No good company is immune from a buy-out. Gibson obviously has other priorities, than making great products these days. A sad but predictable ending to the legacy of a brilliant Designer, Company, Products. The value of “real” Mesa amps has just increased.
I thought that Randall had hinted at retirement being on the slate in his letter announcing the sale to Gibson???
Is that a Bogner Xtc classic behind him?
Considering they just reissued the mark iic+
That makes sens
Great video !
DEAD ON! Well done!
Thats why Alexander Dumble wouldnt partner with Fender. He couldve been rich.
Another note - Jonathan Blick is a tech in Milwaukee and is FANTASTIC. He's factory authorized and you can find his contact info on Mesa's website. Most of the local shops use him and one other guy but I prefer Blick.
Hunt Amplification out in Phoenix does amazingly with Boogie amps. Had my tremoverb modded & given a clean bill of health there in 2021 and she still plays hard 💯
Milwaukeen here. Blick has done right by me several times!
I hope Mike Fortin gets back with Randall Amps. He has the potential be the next Randall Smith.
Excuse Jim Marshall for getting it right the first time….and you missed the JVM series by the way.
I always figured that Gibson would ruin Mesa/Boogie. I’ve got a Mark V and will hang on to it
The only thing I can say, if Randall left because of Gibsons push just to make money. Man, much respect for him. I remember going into the Hollywoods Mesa store, I was still in high school, and would go and hang out after school. That sweet tube smell. Finally saved enough money to buy a Mesa single rectifier combo. That was good old day. And now I'm looking forward meeting Mr. Freidman when I take my amp for service.
Seems that Randy was on his way out over a year ago, as in Guitar Player article published in June of last year, “Smith has hinted it’s the last Mark amp he’ll design, and while it’s anyone’s guess if that actually turns out to be the case, the Mark VII is a stunning achievement…”(Art Thompson)
Yes yiu are correct, i recently spoke to David, and yes he told me, I can take me mesas to him. Few minutes away.
Rest assured, people are going to advertise their amps as pre-Gibson and pre-Randall getting fired, mark my words. I loved Mesa but I doubt I'll grab one made after Randall get fired unless I get a hell of a deal.
😂 he called Jim Marshall an amp guy! Jim was not even in the same universe as Randall Smith. Randall is up there with Leo. Ken Bran was behind the Marshall amps, not Jim
As the head of the company, Jim pushed the innovation. He’s an amp guy, correctly respected and revered. Learning history is important.
Wrong.
I bought a Mesa Baron years ago and called up the company and the dudes that made it still worked there and helped with schmematics for something they made 30 years ago. Very few companies out there that stood by old gear and kept great talent.
Were you there when it happened ?
This is a good video. I think a lot of your predictions and thoughts are probably right. The only thing is we don't know if tube amps will retain value in 20 years, but I would argue that if that's why you're buying tube amps there are much better and much safer alternatives. Buy them because it's fun to piss off your neighbor and feel the music.
not sure tube amp retain value in 20 years, but tube looks getting expensive, i think in Russia some manufacturers still making new tube today ?? at least few years ago still making, lot recording still using tube and hifi nuts like tube amplifier, tube wont go away soon just like combustion engine i guess .
What you’re saying makes sense. Because the community is very loud and clear about the 3 channel rectifiers not sounding as good as the old 2 channels. No one wants a new rectifier. I 100% agree with those reissues.
I think amp builders are going to join collectives like Boutique Amp Distribution that work from a shared platform with built-in digital features such as cab simulation. The future (as much as it hurts) is digital, and working on some hybrid designs with preamps and tubes but modern digital convenience features will keep analogue and the guys working on it relevant for longer. If this would have happened earlier, maybe Randall would have done work for Synergy to release some of his amps as modules and benefit from the shared knowledge in those circles for the "modern" stuff.
it's depending on the clause of the contract with Gibson they usually stay on for 2 years and they won't be able to start another amp business for 2 or 5 years so they are not in direct competition
Thanks this was great.
That John Sykes amp sounds like a solid idea
Don’t forget about Jens Kruse at Kruse Amplification
Jen modified an EVH we have and it is insane. Definitely one of the best!
I have a Kruse modded uberschall. Very pleased with it.
There was another UA-camr I listened to the other day who has been a working musician in Nashville. What is interesting is that he believes that Nashville is moving towards getting amplifiers completely off the stage even in larger venues. Since Gibson is based in Nashville I have to wonder how that might be affecting their decision making.
I agree that Gibson is probably going to be taking advantage of reissued amplifiers. Proof is the new Falcon series of amplifiers. I have no idea how well those sold, but they aren’t cheap.
What I find interesting is that both Fender and Marshall put their name on inexpensive solid state and digital amplifiers. This is bread and butter for them and it works. I would bet that a grand majority of working musicians in Nashville owns a Fender Deluxe and a lot of them may have started off with something like a Frontman.
Interesting theory. If this is their master plan hopefully these “re-issues” you talk about aren’t just modeled/profiled digital versions, just another cheap way out and not the same as the real thing.
@@armandodiaz3485 I doubt they will be. Th it’s not gibsons thing. Theyre a legacy brand for older players with a lot of disposable income. Plus amps cost more than modelers.
Within 2 years we’ll be seeing a whole slew of Chinese-made Mesa Boogie junk. $49.99 “Boogie” headphone amp anyone?
I was worried that you were going to make a generic video regarding Mesa but I love the turn you took making declarations and issuing responsibility where it is due, and that is to the POS company that Gibson has become. This is the first video of yours I’ve seen, automatically subscribed.
Where do we go from here?? Nik at Ceriatone all the way😂
Rumor I heard is that it had to do with overseas production.
That would be a good reason.
I wasn't sure about your supposition when I first pressed play on the video but after listening I think you're right: forward thinking amp maker figurehead butted heads with the "vintage lifestyle" company known for never producing anything really new after the 1960s.
I have one of his OG Prune Music boosted prototype, i love that guy! 😢
imho, tech is ruining our lives, I live in the Bay Area and see the industry giving zero back ,
I believe life was better before cellphones and pc's
you should have to take a drink every time you use the word right, it would make the video more interesting, right?
I’d be annihilated after 3 mins in
Well this video aged like a fine wine.
Don't panic about service, just look it up and be prepared or learn it yourself.
I have to argue this point - Gibson tried a bunch of new stuff, but no one bought it. Firebird x as example - brass nuts and motor tuners, blueshawk guitar, etc. no one bought it.
Reissue Brad Gillis's rig with switching to go from Ozzy to Night Ranger eras
Saying Smith is some victim is a little over the top. His lawyers read the agreements and he signed them, so he knew what he was getting into. Cesar came from Private Equity or that type of financial business. It's what these guys do with companies.
A lot like Leo Fender- he could have just reproduced classic Fender designs at Music Man and G&L (though after Leo passed the new G&L owners did just that), but he never did (the ASAT was the closest to that, and it was pushed into production by Dale Hyatt using Leo's new pickups in a Tele shaped body). These kinds of designers are motivated/obsessed by the idea of progress and innovation and see obsession with profit as abhorrent! Going back to old designs runs against the grain of these people too
Reissue, rerun, repeat, the Gibson mantra.
Right right right right...like I'm back at my fucking corporate job watching this...right?
You mentioned 'Jim Marshall', but not Leo Fender?
Not entirely true regarding the reissue theory. Mesa actually continues the legacy of old circuits by including them in the new designs with a little more refinement. All the technology that was developed throughout Mesa history is then instantiated into the new amps. You get the all the mark circuits in a mkv starting with the mk one. Then you got dynawatt power that was developed in the mid eighties in every el84 based boogie (amazing power amp!) you get the the transatlantic technology where your amp can go from a blackface to a Brit sound with stunning authenticity and no oscillation problems when switching channels. Nobody but nobody has been able to get very real American and Brit sounds in one chassis with no compromise. You can’t start an amplifier company and just dream up a Mark series amp and release it in a couple years. It’s the amalgamation of 55 years of R&D. Obsessive, meticulous design.
Randall was most likely fired because of his eccentricity and attention to quality and detail with no compromise. Big corporations seek those types out and terminate them.
S'ils font une réissue améliorée du Triaxis ce serait bien aussi, même si je pense qu'une tête sonne mieux qu'un rack.
If they make an improved reissue of the Triaxis it would be nice too, even if I think that head sounds better than rack.
Money, always. Someone wants his salary, cut corners on product, give executives bonuses.
I too am worried about the future of Mesa Boogie. Randall Smith is just one of those guys who not only builds great amps, but has an attention to detail so good, he addresses common design flaws in amps, like the tube bias is a fixed value and grades the tubes to match it so there's no need to take it to a tech to adjust it, or building the chassis in such a way that the amp doesn't just sound good, but it's built like a tank.
The Badlander I think is an excellent example of how traditional tube amps can still be relevant in the world of Kemper and Axe FX. Thanks to the Cabclone, you can hook it directly into a DAW or PA without the need for a speaker cabinet and still get real tube tone. Kempers do have more amp profiles on tap, but I personally get option paralysis. I had a Mark 5:35 and each channel had 3 voicings and while it was an amazing piece of kit, I was forever trying to decide which one I liked best, so God knows how I'd cope with a Kemper. But the cool thing about the Badlander is that you have the same clean, mid gain and high gain option on each channel, so you can have two identical clean channels with different settings if you wish. Its voicing options keep it fairly simple, but that added flexibility is a stroke of genius. Well done Randy!!!!! The world of amps is gonna miss him.
Did Gibson also get the Mesa pedals ? In any case I couldn’t afford a Dual Rectifier no matter who makes them. But if Gibson wants to make a mini version like Fretted Americana tried to make Phil X’s Evil Robot Mini years ago which never happened (even though I preordered and then got my money back) that could be cool.
Andy Fuchs and maybe Steve Freyette for Mesa repairs. Dave Friedman for anything Marshall esc. Psonic for fender etc.
it's karma. randall got his punishment for :
1. stealing mike soldano's preamp and putting it in the rectifier series
2.making our lives complicated with crappy complicated designs, that's why all the techs hate mesas
Except: the Soldano amps sound nothing like a rectifier to my ears. Is that so?
@@aliensporebomb yeah, no played both through same speaker they don't sound alike at all...
@@aliensporebomb they don't sound the same since they have a different power section and also it's one thing in the preamp he stole not the whole thing but it's still unfair, he took mike soldanos work and acted like it's his own.
@@KevinCoblerOfficial they don't sound alike but he stole a piece (in the preamp section) from soldano's design and put it in the rectifier ,look it up if you don't believe me ,mike spoke about it in tone talk with dave friedman.
Yes and no
I dream of having some form of Colosseum Mesa I doubt it would happen but the moment they make a mark Colosseum version I am the first in line. I am one of the few weirdos who hate it when companies reinvent the wheel. I love myself heritage companies
Called it. Nailed it. Randall was fired.
I think my Mesa built in 1978 by Randall which I waited 9 months for, its value is going way up now!
You sound like you work for Gibson.
This explanation makes perfect sense. If it is the case, then I have even greater respect Randall Smith.
Enjoy your retirement Sir!
New Subscriber. This was great.
You know, a real man wouldn't be up there spouting stuff that he has to say supposedly and allegedly every other word.
Gibson is known for buying brands and then killing them off. Its what they do best which is alienate the long standing and loyal followers, ruffle up production facilities and employees and eventually force their design and cut corner practices on the brand. Kramer was dead for years and only now is enjoying a slight come back. Firing the guy that drove the complete tidal wave that is MESA is not a step in the right direction by any means. My advise is for people to buy the original Boogies up because soon they will not be produced the same and will likely see a huge price bump. Boogies are hard for newb tech too work on but many well versed techs have no problems repairing them. Ymmv.
As long as they reissues their bass amps the got my attention
Don’t forget Lichtlaerm audio a young builder who understands needs of modern guitar player
Gibson, like Harley Davidson, sells nostalgia. The big thing is, VC's understand selling nostalgia, selling 'lifestyle'... they are sales, marketing, accounting and finance; not engineers. Vale innovation.
Randall will just start a new brand.
Yeah Gibson, Apple and more companies have the same vision of money above what actually got us in the map. This theory makes sense and I’m sure it’s the case
Because Speculators and Short Sellers are running these companies. They only care about grabbing as much as possible because tomarrow may never come mentality. Buyers Beware.
gibson should have acquired marshall - it's the prefect pairing and, frankly, there is a market and space for legacy; some things are so good that they don't need improving upon
Demand is why any company manufacturers products. Les Pauls are IN like never before. People buy reissues because they want the storied design, a sweet R9 is $7k, a real one is $300k!
Reissue is driven by reality that best designs made and public wants those tools, that sound the best.
Old tube amps, i have a dozen, are temperamental people want a new Mark Boogie because a boosted Fender sounds best for most of our old rock and blues. Smith must have clashed over politics, timing, he warred with someone at Gibson, recently acquired by venture cap firm, so both Gib and Mesa belong to this fund who seems to like making good stuff because Les Pauls right now are sweet
Does the psu saga have anything to do with this?
What is the PSU saga?
@@eldoradoguitars6456 The company delivering psu's was bust and Mesa were not shipping amps to Europe due to a lack of psu's but told customers it was a capacity shortage 😅
The had to find psu's that fit in their gear.
@@Michel-r6m Ah ok no idea 🤷♂️
@@eldoradoguitars6456 Plz double check because there is a lot of nonsense on the web, but that is what I read procurement issues.
@El Dorado are 100% correct. This is a *very good* analysis. I'm your newest sub as a result woo-hoo!!
- Randy Smith was no doubt a big thorn in Gibson's side. NO DOUBT. A bad apple constantly poisoning the well... a grouchy old man complaining about everything Gibson was up to (I don't blame him BTW).
- Randy Smith no doubt had a 3-yr contract with Gibson to get them through the transition.
- Also... if he split early, he probably would have forfeited some (large) portion of his pay-out from the sale. Nobody is thinking about that. Well he stuck it out... he's done... he gets the balance of his deal and rides off into the sunset to either start another venture (doubtful at age 80, but maybe...) or spend the next 15 years enjoying the fruits of his labor.
THINK "LEO FENDER"
- YES Gibson will almost certainly re-issue all the early Mesa-Boogies, and if they're true to their past I might even buy one because I coiuld not afford one in 1975 . That is what Gibson does... if they could make money re-issuing Orville's tenor and bass mandolins and banjo-lins from 1800-whatever you can bet your arse they'd be on it in a heartbeat... Murphy-labbed and all.
I deal with M&A backlash on former company owners all the time in a different industry. This is very very standard stuff in the world of M&A and 100% predictable. Everyone wants the money - nobody wants the corporation. But if you take the money.... Cheers folks.
You were 100% right...
Maybe don’t turn the camera on when you have been drinking. The SOB was an attempt at a reissue, the Mk1 was reissued, the King Snake.
The folks who already have Boogies won't be affected by the departure. Then you have the the purchase of used boogies. Still no affect.... New Boogies from stores who already have a stock. Not affect. Getting Boogies directly from the factory. The workers who work on the floor will continue to make the amps the same way. Gibson won't change the way these things are made. These are the things that make Mesa/Boogie what they are. And especially if Doug West sticks around. Randall Smith may have started Mesa......but the making of the amps are there people....Gibson isn't an amp company. So there shouldn't be a decline in quality. I personally have my Les Paul and don't plain on buying another.
Gibson will fuck this up, just like they have their brand.
Randall should start a new amp company and name it Nosbig Amps.