Porsche 944 - Transaxle Gear Oil Change & Axle Flange Seal Replacement Tutorial (CV Axle Service)
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- This video provides an overview of some of the drivetrain components used in the Porsche 944, including a tutorial on transaxle gear oil replacement, differential output shaft seal replacement, and a summary CV axle maintenance.
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The Difference between GL-4 and GL-5 Gear Oils: by Richard Widman -
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** NOTE ** Torque Spec for the two M8 Axle Flange bolts to the Differential is over-stated in the video, it should be 25Nm or 18 ft/lbs.
Dude, It's like you're reading my mind. I just found out that my CV axles need replacing 2 weeks ago lol
Silver lining: they are easier to replace than to rebuild. 🤣
@@NC944er You've got that right. They're way easier than I expected them to be.
Thanks! Did the oil change last weekend. Used the MT-90 and she shifts much better
That’s great to hear! 👍🏼
This channel is a hidden gem! Keep up the great videos mate!
Thanks man! Your FlowMaster sounds pretty sweet. Keep working on the welding… I could have used that skill when repairing my battery tray. Had to resort to POR patch. 😂
@@NC944er I actually just changed my exhaust setup lol I’m running a Lindsey racing 3in header back with cat delete and a borla xr1 now! It sounds amazing!
@@nathanlink4926 Wicked! You got anything on the other side to get more air coming in? I’ve been wanting the MAF kit from Lindsey for awhile, but Josh of Rogue finally pulled the plug on the EEPROM chip production. So they are unavailable until Lindsey finds a new chip manufacturer.
@@NC944er yeah I’m running the stock intake rn I was looking at that kit too
NC944er, your videos are outstanding. Thanks! You guided me thru my timing belt change (perfectly), and this will really help with the next project on my list! Ordering up axle seals now. Keep up the great work :)
I purchased a 1986 NA for my 16yr old son upon earning his Eagle Scout Rank later this month. Enjoy your videos, helps with the diy maintenance plan. Have to say replacing the drivers side input shaft seal was not as intuitive since it doesn’t have a firm lip like the passenger side. Had to watch your video a few times, but got it working. Thx!
Glad to hear it! Hope you guys are able to keep it running well for him and I’m sure some fun learning experiences ahead as well. 👍🏼
Gotta get my 944 grove on soon !!!! Picking up our 83 48,000 mile 944 on Thursday!!! 6 years in storage unit, 18 years since last inspection and registration!!! 😀😀😀😀😀😎😎😎😎
Brilliant workshop Instructions and recommendations.
Great tutorial. Thank you! 👍👍
Thanks will be doing same on my 944 😎 appreciate your videos
Nice! Best of luck. 👍🏼
Great info. Clear concise content. A rare and welcome thing on YT!
Love this channel. Great instructions, great video. Keep it up! My 944 thanks you.
I recently found your channel and the videos you make are really good. Keep up the great work!!!!
Thank you for the information
Just put new axle seals in using this video! Thank you!
Excellent, nice job! 👍🏼
@@NC944er You, sir, are my Sensei! :) Really appreciate all you do!
Good channel
Excellent video, thanks for posting.
Porsche published a TSB many years ago updating the gear oil spec to GL-5 for the 944 series. It is important to look the the TSB's for service information updates.
The TSBs can definitely be useful to incorporate into the larger body of technical information available when deciding what’s best for your car. I think there are also situations where owners can evaluate that information and make informed choices that deviate from the TSBs. An API GL-5 gear oil is superior to a GL-4 when it comes to protection against shock loading, which is why it would be an easy choice for Porsche to recommend, but the API ratings don’t account for synchromesh and the long-term degradation of yellow metals caused by the increased sulfur/phosphorus levels used in GL-5. Because my car is an 8-valve NA with relatively low HP and I’m more concerned with the longer-term preservation of the synchros, I opted for the GL-4 option in Redline’s MT-90. I might be more apt to consider a GL-5 if my car were a Turbo or an S2, but I’d also plan for a transaxle rebuild at some point in the future.
Overall, I’ve found that this topic generates a fair amount of confusion and sparks various positions as to “the best” option for all scenarios and I don’t think the changing industry standards help matters for the general consumer. If you’re interested, here’s a link to a somewhat lengthy, but informative, article on GL-4 and GL-5 gear oils that helps break down the nuances of the application differences - www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf
Cheers and thanks for checking out the channel! 👍
If you’re not satisfied with the Redline I recently put Sta-Lube 85w90 gl-4 hypoid conventional gear oil with no friction modifiers in my trans and it’s working better than it ever has. I’ve never heard it mentioned by any other 944ers but it meets all the specs. I never tried the redline but I have tried swepco, valvoline, Mobil one, and Lucas. I didn’t like that the redline says not for hypoid. The Sta-Lube comes in a gallon for $40-50 and they had it at Napa
Yeah, the Redline product language is confusing in that respect. They’ve told me that the label contains a general disclosure and it certainly does apply in cases where there is extreme pressure of “high offset” hypoid gears. That said, a GL-4 oil like MT-90 is suitable for use in a zero or “low offset”hypoid gear application like that found in the 944 transaxle.
Thanks for the recommendation on an alternative gear oil! I haven’t tried that brand either, but I do like when things are available locally, that makes it a lot easier to come by. 👍🏼
Good explanation,awesome video, a european car mechanic probably would charge 2000 for the service lmao, thanks bro
Yeah, labor rates are insane and I refuse to pay them! 😂
I hear some people mention that the MTL helped to alleviate a crunchy second gear synchro, I currently have MT90 in my car and I was curious how you would compare the two? I was thinking about experimenting with mixing the two.
I actually switched from MTL to MT-90 to try and differentiate the two, but they are fairly closely formulated. MTL is classified as a 75W80 gear lubricant and MT-90 is a thicker 75W90 version of MTL. From a climate perspective, MTL is better suited to cooler temperatures and MT-90 provides better performance in hotter climates. Under normal Spring/Summer temperatures for my area, I haven't noticed a huge difference between the two. They both equally increased the smoothness of shifts after adding fresh oil. That said, I have noticed that the MT-90 creates harder/slower shifts when driving at cooler temperatures of 40°-50°F for the first few minutes before the oil warms up. Under those conditions, the higher viscosity of MT-90 requires slightly increased shift effort to move the synchros and to squeeze the oil from between the synchronizer cones and the mating surfaces of each gear. So in general terms based on the numbers, MTL should allow the synchros to mate a little easier and reduce crunchiness as the formula is a bit thinner than MT-90. The only downside being that you lose some protection against shock loading as you move to thinner lubricants, but unless you drive your car extremely hard all the time, it shouldn't be an issue. This article is a good read if you want to get more into the tech specs and differences between the two: www.redlineoil.co.jp/PDF/WHITEPAP/mtl_tech.pdf
@@NC944er Thank you! I really appreciate your help. I'm going to go ahead and try out MTL to see how I like it.
@@NC944er How do you like your short shifter? Im noticing some slight side to side play in my shifter and I was interested in tightening up the feel, however since my second gear synchro is starting to feel a bit worn I was worried if that would negatively impact its condition in the long run. It's made me a bit hesitant to pull the trigger
@@MrUglyDinosaur I have another video on the channel that reviews the short shifter if you’re interested, but it essentially eliminates almost all the loose play and reduces the front-to-back movement by 1 inch. It therefore tightens the overall feel and makes gear selection more precise. The linkage changes themselves wouldn’t hasten or delay any further wear to the synchros, but it would enhance the sensation of any gear issues and better translate that through the shift lever. So if you’re experiencing any light grinding or hiccups when changing gears, it will feel more pronounced in your hand, but what’s happening inside the transmission will remain the same. Example: After installing the short shifter on my car, I had a better feel of some minor notchiness going into 3rd when the gear oil was cold, which has inspired me to double clutch 2nd and 3rd gears until everything is warmed up. So if anything, I have a better understanding of what is happening inside the transmission and can “play nice” until it’s ready. 😂
The Porsche 944 factory manual calls for a hypoid oil and MT90 states on the label "Not for hypoid transmissions". Yes, the shifting will be good but the crown & pinion gears will not have the needed protection of a hypoid oil and will wear very quickly.
Hey David, thanks for your comments! This is a confusing topic for sure and sorting through the noise can be a challenge, but I’ll see if I can provide some clarity.
The quoted statement from Redline is a general disclosure and it certainly does apply in cases where there is extreme pressure of “high offset” hypoid gears. That said, a GL-4 oil like MT-90 is suitable for use in a zero or “low offset”hypoid gear application like that found in the 944 transaxle.
This has been confirmed through conversations with Redline technicians and when using the vehicle product selection tool on Redline’s website for the 944, MT-90 pops up as the recommended product choice.
Here’s a link to a somewhat lengthy, but informative, article on GL-4 and GL-5 gear oils that helps break down the nuances of the application differences - www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf
@@NC944er Thanks for info, I will read, digest it and hopefully will be the wiser.
@@davidks3552 I spent hours researching oils, tech sheets, forums, and trying to understand the differences and this article summed it up the best. The lubricant industry is really confusing for consumers, especially when they keep changing regulations and production standards, and the labels don’t always help. Castrol has a relatively new High Zinc “Classic” motor oil that says, “Not for use in modern vehicles with catalytic converters,” but when I called their tech line, I was told it’s safe for the 944 even though it has a catalyst. 🤪 I feel like sometimes they just post blanket statements to hedge against potential lawsuits.
Just watched this video and you have convinced me to use the Redline MT-90 in my 87 N/A car with 97k miles on it. I'm curious, since it has been about a year since you did this work, on how you like the results? How's the shifting? Any negatives? Would you go this route again? Thanks for another great video!
At this gear oil change, I switched from Redline MTL to Redline MT-90. The MT-90 is a bit thicker and shifts were noticeably smoother than when running MTL. It’s good quality stuff, I’ve had no issues with it to date. My second gear is a little notchy when the fluid is cold, so I’ll sometimes double clutch 2nd and 3rd for the first few minutes when it’s chilly outside. It doesn’t grind, just a little slow to get into gear while the synchros catch up. Once it’s all warmed up, it’s super slick.
@@NC944er Sounds good to me. This stuff will be in my car by the end of the week, along with some fresh VR1 and ATE200.
Like your channel really, but RedLine says: "MT-90 are not for use in differentials with hypoid gears" so it's not good for 944 as far as I know, might be mistaken, please check to be sure.
Hey Robert, thanks for your comments! This is a confusing topic for sure and sorting through the noise can be a challenge, but I’ll see if I can provide some clarity.
The quoted statement from Redline is a general disclosure and it does apply in cases where there is extreme pressure of high offset hypoid gears. That said, a GL-4 oil like MT-90 is suitable for use in a zero or low offset hypoid gear application like that found in the 944 transaxle.
This has been confirmed through conversations with Redline technicians and when using the vehicle product selection tool on Redline’s website for the 944, MT-90 pops up as the recommended choice.
Here’s a link to a somewhat lengthy, but informative, article on GL-4 and GL-5 gear oils that helps break down the nuances of the application differences - www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf
Nice clean video, I think oh I asked you before, but can you give me the part numbers for the seils?
Differential output shaft seals: 016-409-399-B
Will sometimes show as a Volkswagen application in searches, the axle flanges used on the 944 are a VW/Audi produced part.
Are the seals the same for the automatic transmission???
@@TheTr0uble Yes, they are the same.
Excellent video NC944er. Just helped me tremendously w/ a 1984 944 seal replacement. Question, at min 5:54 when you pop the seal out, your differential shows a green/blue grommet (not sure what this part is since my 944 seems to be missing it!) What part is this or how do I order it? Thanks again for an outstanding video!
Hey Carlos, thank you very much! I’m glad you found it helpful. The green part you’re seeing there is actually a plastic gear for the speedometer impulse sender positioned just above it to the left on the transaxle case. The later cars featured this sending unit setup to drive the speedometer, whereas the speedometer on an early car like yours is driven by a cable to the left, front wheel. So because of those differences, you shouldn’t expect to see the green gear on your car. Cheers!
@@NC944er Wow, that's pretty awesome, thanks for the swift response!
You’ve got me questioning my choice on gear oil now. I went to my auto parts store near by and they were out of redline so I grabbed 75w90 Mobil 1 before watching this video about a year ago, what are your thoughts?
Don't open the can of worms! 🤣 There's a lot to sort through on this topic and varying opinions out there (mostly based on anecdotal evidence or marketing claims) as to what's best. The short answer is that your Mobile 1 is a GL-5 oil that meetings the viscosity and API Service requirements recommended by Porsche.
I'll include a couple links below that will give you enough information to be dangerous, but the main difference between GL-4 and GL-5 oils is the amount EP additives (sulfur/phosphorous) that support shock loading in the transmission (when a heavy load is suddenly applied to a set of rotating gears). While the sulfur additives provide pressure protection, they can bind to yellow metals and peel off layers of metal as the gears experience normal wear. GL-4 oils possess half the amount of EP additives of GL-5, so they offer less shock loading but are thereby less damaging to brass/bronze synchros. Because I don't hoon my 944 and it's also an NA with lower torque, the risk of shock loading is minimal, so I elected for GL-4 in hopes of preserving the gears and delaying an inventible transaxle rebuild. I might be in the other camp if I were a Turbo owner or running a track car.
Short Description: www.rymax-lubricants.com/updates/the-differences-between-gl-4-and-gl-5/
Long & Informative: www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf
@@NC944er Ok, I am ditching the Mobil and going your route. Thanks for the insight. Glad I saw this too.
So revisiting this. I didn’t put Mobil 1 in it. I put synthetic Chevron Delo. I was cleaning my garage and had a little left over. It says that it satisfies Gl-4, Gl-5 and Mt90.
@@P1983sche That’s cool, I think the most important thing is having clean fluid that is free of contaminants and brand is a secondary preference.
@@NC944er Had another question for you. Since I bought this vehicle roughly 4 years ago now. If I am in 3rd gear or 4th and I gently release pressure from the gas pedal (3k rpm) I get a slight whine. This whine has always been there since I got the vehicle. I was told it was torque tube noise and it’s normal. Every gear shifts like butter, no play, and I never have any trouble engaging any gear, no grinding etc. Your thoughts? Do you notice any of this with your 944? Whine slightly scares me, because in the past, I had a BMW 318i that had a much louder whine and it was the pinion. However, I babied the BMW and threw 60k more miles on it with the whine before I sold it. It never got worse and continued to shift nice.
where did you get those colored Center caps for your wheels? those look bad ass. I want some for my 1989 S2 Gaurds Red
Yeah, thanks! Those are my fave center cap design as well. They are found under part number 92836103211tpp but unfortunately are $100 apiece.
What about the 944’s with automatic transmissions????
Based upon information presented in the 2017 parts catalogue, illustration 308-00, they are the same part number.
Hi NC944er, looking to do this job while my car is laid up for the off season. I cant seem to find a brand i want (Mobil, Castrol etc) in my city in a 75w90 that does NOT have the lsd additive. Is it safe to use an oil that has the LSD additive in my open diff/transmission?
Hey Quincy, in a manual transmission with synchros, you generally should not use the limited-slip friction modifiers unless the transmission features an LSD clutch. The friction modifier makes the fluid “slicker,” and therefore could impact shock loading. Personally, I would order something without it and have it shipped in, which is commonly required with many jobs on the 944.
@@NC944er thanks man! You are the best, i cant say how much i appreciate your videos. Anyone getting into these cars i always reference and share your videos with them
The torque specs that you provided for the 6mm hex head retaining bolt for the output shaft is wrong. According to the 944 WSM it is 25 Nm or 18.4 Ft lbs, NOT 42 Nm or 31 Ft lbs. Ask me how I know 😒🤬
Hmmm, I’m seeing that now as well. Thanks for mentioning it. I believe I had gotten that value from a Pelican article and confirmed on the forums, but should have cited the workshop manual as well. Did the bolt head end up stripping on yours? UA-cam doesn’t allow easy updating for this kind of thing… I’ll have to see if I have the original source videos to make corrections.
@@NC944er Yes, the hex head stripped because it was over-torqued. I had to use a bolt extractor to get it out (on both sides) - needless to say, I had to also buy 2 new bolts 😞. I'm just lucky that the bolt didn't break or stip/shear the threads inside the transmission.
@@davewilson7914 Man, that sucks, I’m sorry to hear that. Glad you were able to get them removed. I pinned a new comment referencing the correct torque spec there. If I can edit the video as well, I’ll pull this one down and repost it. Thanks again for letting me know! 👍
Just a suggestion don't use your torque wrench to break stuff loose
Thank you and I agree! 😁 The wrench shown during removal is actually my old broken torque wrench that no longer measures correctly, but it’s long so I sometimes use it as a breaker bar. The manufacturer, EPAuto, sent me a new one under warranty and didn’t ask for the old one back. Pretty cool! 👍🏼
Hey, do you know if this process is the same for early 944s? Thanks.
Hey Nick! Yes, the processes demonstrated here apply to both the early and late versions of the 944.
@@NC944er Alright, I’ll get to it then. Thank you!
I would have marked the position of the bolts before dismantling