Perennial Weed Management on a No-Till Farm | Four Winds Farm
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- Опубліковано 29 лип 2023
- In today's video we get to hear about how Jay and Polly of Four Winds Farm in New York manage perennial, noxious weeds like Canada thistle and quack grass. We also hear how, on a mulit-acre commercial farm, they use comfrey to keep out creeping grasses.
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Great video. These "lessons learned from long experience" videos are golden. I really appreciate all the details on comfrey management and vehicle traffic.
_"These "lessons learned from long experience" videos are golden. "_ Way more than the care bears "it grows alone, weed-free in my no-till wonderland" videos that are, lets face it, the biggest part of what is found on the web.
Several years ago, as a worker on an 8 hectare organic veg farm in italy, where purslane was extremely common, we used to use it both as a living mulch (of course keeping it in check) and as a "dead" mulch by simply pulling it out from the center root and flipping it upside down on the soil, letting it dry and decompose. It was quite effective
Smart
Another reason to love comfrey!
A video on how Four Winds use their tractor, and what implements they use, would be fantastic.
Comfrey is indeed very useful as a weed barrier, but for a front yard veg garden I have found day lilies work just as well and the neighbors appreciate the aesthetics
As a rancher; Canadian thistle can be brought to nearly 0% ... you must always walk your livestock with a hoe or shovel every day. Is this a minor feat? No, 535 acres
As a Canadian, I have never heard of Canada thistle before. We just call it thistle. Lol
Wow! This is such a wonderful series. So helpful and informative! Thanks you, Jesse!!!
WOW this couple really know their stuff. Thanks 👍👍
Comfrey is an amazing food source for the garden as well but didn't know the garden Snakes love comfrey like that we do learn something new each day.
Thanks for this great series. Would love to see more videos about perennial weed management, especially from farms who used to be tillage farms until the weeds got out of control and now what they are doing to bring the system back into balance. Thanks!
Thistle Thursday is the best thing I’ve heard off in a long time!
Great videos, beautiful people, tons of knowledge. Thank you nerd Jessie, you are awesome.
OMG I am going to plant comfrey boarders everywhere now! Many thanks and greetings from Poland 😊
the Comfrey Barrier is AWESOME!
Love this video.
I've been enjoying listening to these two over the past two episodes
Comfrey border is an interesting idea, Im glad its being shared. Unfortunately for me I have gophers and despite sterile Bocking comfrey not spreading by seed, gophers do gnaw on it and move it through their burrows to new locations. Quite clever gardeners they are
Use to live near comfrey. Made great tea. Have herbalists found you? Lamb's Quarters are delicious steamed. Haven't eaten Chickweed but hear its good. And some thistles are edible. Here I pull thistles and let them lay until soft and then feed to animals. Google edible weeds. Milk thistle saved my liver.
Yeah, at some point the cure can become the disease, comfrey spreads like wild fire. Even a tiny peace of root can screw a permanent bed in no time.
I have rattlesnakes so need to keep things cut short where we walk and pull (never push, which blocks your view of where you're stepping) the garden cart.
RIP HEADPHONE USERS FOR INTRO>
~
had the chance twice this week to explain to people why no tilling is one of the best ways to manage and grow food. love seeing more farmers!
Comfrey is an amazing activator for compost...
This video was so helpful! I did not know that comfrey could prevent spreading rhizome weeds! I am totally adding that into my yard plan. (All my neighbors have Bermuda grass and I am working on eradicating it one patch at a time from my property.
Many thanks for this series!
Thanks Jes and team for sharing your beautiful video's.
Learning so much from these folks! Thank you.
I can't wait to try your comfrey boarder tip!
I have several snakes in my garden and still have a terrible slug problem.
Great series 👍
I love the comfrey idea!
Aaawesome tip, I have such a Quackgrass problem! Thanks!
This was awesome. Definitely changed the way i think about some things.
You should keep filming no till farms!
I absolutely love your channel. There is so much useful knowledge in each video. I bought your book and find the information contained within it to be very useful . I highly recommend picking his book up.
My best friend, Great video. Love your channel. Keep up the excellent work!!! Wonderful upload! Keep it up! +thumb up3!
Very good!
_Outstanding_ video. The details Polly in particular provided resonated strongly with me; I appreciate all that she said.
I probably should mention that comphrey's one of my favorite things on the planet.
this is amazing
Love this series, and thoroughly enjoyed learning about the comfrey. I have a couple of plants that I harvest and make comfrey tea with, great fertilizer to encourage blossoms and fruits. I'm buying more comfrey plants for sure.
You don't have to buy more Comfrey Plants, a chunk of the root will grow another plant. They propagate readily by stem or root division. Try it out to see. :-) Makes great Fermented Plant Juice too!
Post in a local buy nothing sell group or gardening group asking if anyone has comfrey. I just picked up some from two people and have literally over 40 starts now and they still have more to give me!
Luv this couple
Great content!
~ Sandra
Thanks
Really interesting, and I'm very tempted to try creating a comfrey border of my own now! I have an allotment and my neighbour on one side has let his plot get quite overgrown, this might be a good way to stop his grasses and bindweed from coming over to my side quite so much. I've already planted some bocking 14 for making compost and homemade fertiliser but I'll see if I can take some root cuttings in spring to increase the number of plants I have to create a border.
Canada thistle is native to Europe, western Asia and North Africa, and was possibly introduced to farms south of the border before making it to Canada. FYI.
Great tips! I wish we had slug eating snakes here in Norway
I was thinking the same thing, but our problem here is feral cats that kill most ground-based wildlife. Talk about a perennial weed!
ThankQ
Thanks!
Amazing, thank you!
I didn’t know that about comfrey,.. great I have lots of comfrey and have a difficult partly shady, steep hill tractor access… the comfrey is going down the center because that is where the quack grass lives and I constantly have to weed it so it doesn’t get into the beds on either side which I did free of quick grass. I live on a steep slope and this is just our personal 1/4 acre garden but still applicable.
bom dia acompanhando aqui do Brasil👏
Thistle Thursday 🎉🎉
This wont help on a large farming situation, but I grew an 8x8 raised bed, filled it with "everything" cucumbers, zucchini, beats, radishes, lettuce, pumpkins, turnips, and many other things.
This gave me a LOT of biomass at the end of the season, I was able to chop it up and throw it back into that bed,
(which had a massive weed problem, due to it being horse manure from a weed infested horse lot.)
When all said and done, I had several inches of material across the entire bed, didn't add anything else, just let it compost in the bed over the winter.
I have had VERY little weed pressure in that bed this year, I assume If I do this again this year, It will have much fewer weeds next year.
Just let draping vines flow over the side, and collect them at the end, and throw them back in, and keep the cycle.
Use your biomass to kill off the weeds, for a small gardening experience.
This year, I have several large ground plots, and the weed pressure is intense, Hopefully, I am able to drastically reduce it with a similar trick.
This can work on large scale too. Ex; leave the Organic Matter in the field after the harvest is complete. Ex; leave Wheat Chaff in the field after the wheat has been harvested. As I understand it, they now have machinery, that can dig a furrow amongst the Chaff and plant seeds directly in it. Thus, the new seeds already have mulch on the bed. The biology in the soil is protected by the mulch/chaff.
Good news for my Bermuda problem-- I hope. Got to try it. Hope it grows in 6 b. Y’all havagudun.
Fantastic series I am going to try a comfrey border for bindweed and blackberries from my neighbors. Surprised they don’t make use of the comfrey in a compost system.
After it it is stepped over, the comfrey will resprout and flower again. Meanwhile, the stepped-down parts of the plant continue to bloom and grow, widening the strip that is shaded and discouraging weeds. (I learned this from Sean at edible acres.)
My experience trying to establish a farm where clear cutting and overgrazing by deer allowed Canada thistle establish a near monoculture: let grass/mixed meadow grow. Chopping and dropping the thistles provides mulch and nutrition (and spiky armor) that allows the grasses to get established. The grasses can handle cutting without dying, so just keep cutting it and leaving it there (or if there's sufficient material, use it as mulch elsewhere.) The grass roots eventually get dense enough that the thistles can't push up new shoots (just like with the comfrey.) Once the thistle rhizomes have been starved of energy and died, then you can sheet mulch to kill the grass and then move into crops. If you try to grow where the thistles are established, then you waste more time and energy managing the thistles than you would by just exporting that material as mulch and waiting for the thistles to run out of steam trying to compete with the grass. But that does mean choosing to leave that space out of production for a season or two... but I find I end up getting more production out of my existing beds when I can put my time and energy into them rather than into managing thistles.
Of course, you still have to pull thistle seedlings from the seeds that blow in, but as noted, that's basically a non-issue in no-till, as long as you get them before they establish sufficient rhizome mass.
The other management strategy is to use the thistles, both whole and as a liquid extraction. There is a species of rust that exclusively affects Canada thistle and causes significant or total mortality within 18 months, if I recall correctly. By using the thistle material extensively, my goal is to get spores from the thistle rust well-established in my beds so that any thistles that do show up are in a really hostile environment. It's my understanding that some states offer thistle rust to farmers as a powder that can be dusted on plants, but since that's not available where I am, my hypothesis is that importing enough diseased material into my beds will ultimately have the same result. But, given my other management strategies, I can't really say how much the thistle rust is contributing to my overall success.
And obviously, a comfort or other thick-rooted border is key, because the edges are where you're going to fight continual attempts at infiltration.
Very interested in the control of quack grass as it sounds similar to our kikuyu grass in Australia. Bane of my life. While I have comfrey it’s quite low growing and does spread. No idea which variety it is.
Oy. We have Canada thistle AND California thistle. But the Canada thistle is the worst. I take my spouse with me every time I make the rounds of the planting plots.
The milkweed is a problem, too.
The key is consistency in digging them out.
So loving this series and the owners of the Four Winds Farm. Unfortunately it seems like these plants with rhizomes seem to be an universal problem/issue. We are still clueless and if we will ever get control of the Bermuda Grass issue that we have? Now this year we are also infested with a form of Johnson grass. Fortunately it is easy enough to pull. Still reading and studying the Living Soil Handbook. Trying to get our compost program going. Living where we do we are VERY short on green material. Also wanting to mix our hay/goat manure into the compost but confused there as well. Just like life it will be a day by day learning process. As always Thank You for the great videos!
Goat manure? Do you also have chickens? If so, while learning about the composting of goat manure, could you simply find a spot on your land to pile the goat manure and mix in some chicken bedding. Father time will eventually solve the questions for you. In a year or so you will be able to return to the pile, scrape off the top and find wonderful material at the bottom. (At least that's the theory)
Shortage of compost is what drove me into using Winter Rye and other cover crops like Buckwheat -- creating compost in place rather than hauling in -- the microbes will eat compost faster than you can haul if your operation is large enough! Hint: plant into standing cover until the crop emerges then flatten the rye for best and longest lasting control.
@@jvin248 We have been considering using cover crops in our garden. The main thing that has held us back is the way that we garden. Because of where we live we still garden like they had in the past. We garden using rows. So if we do go to cover crops (which we will). We think that we would then go to a weed eater to lay the crop down before it comes to seed. Thank You for your reply!
@@jvin248 Flatten the Rye...does it still keep growing if you bend it over? Just wondering if it's still living mulch or if it just breaks down on the bed as Organic Matter.
here's a silly idea: if you cross johnson and normal sorghum you might have a perennial grain crop.
About how far on spacing between plants for establishing a new comfrey border?
vast and fertile plantations
I wonder if just terminating the tops of the rhizome-based weeds is more efficient, given that both methods require a number of repeated interventions. I'd think keeping a zero-leaves policy on it would eventually run the roots out of energy. Curious about others' experience on this.
I'm currently trying this with trumpet creeper in my new garden. It seems to make sense to me, we'll see.
@@loganozarks4102 well, reply here after you've played with it if you think of it. plenty of such rooty characters around here - not an issue as of yet - but my grandpa used to do this and then water to give them everything they wanted.. then strip the leaves again and call it good. I haven't had quite the same experience yet but saw it work for him.
I've been dealing with an English Ivy infestation. While it's not quite the same, I found that taking the time and digging the roots out as much as possible to be vastly superior to repeatedly trying to take down the foliage and depleting the energy stored in the roots and in the runners. Digging it up more time intensive but convention typically tells you to remove as much of the foliage and treat with an herbicide/solarize repeatedly to kill the ivy. But in a no-till situation, I'm not sure what would be best. I was benefited by having residence and fence-line more or less infested with it, so I could disturb the soils more or less freely.
Do you know what kind of Comfrey that is?
Looking for technical resources regarding starting a permanent bed, market garden system (approx. 1/2 acre) from well established rhyzomatic perennial grasses (crab grass, bermuda grass etc.) in disturbed urban soils in a dry climate (southern california). Think neglected urban yard/lot/easement. Any leads appreciated.
Anyone have suggestions for bindweed. It’s showing up on top of mulch, along edges of fences. It’s out competing groundcovers, hand pulling. I resorted after it went crazy to herbicide and it died off and came back a month later. On the list for mites next season. It’s a nightmare. I haven’t tried comfrey as a groundcover only ornamentals so maybe that’s my answer
After watching this, I’ve looked into comfrey, which sounds like an awesome idea. However, what I’m reading says it’s invasive especially varieties that self seed. She said hers doesn’t spread. Can you please clarify and give some more information on the invasive aspect of comfrey? Thank you so much. Nikki
Hi Nikki, there is a sterile hybrid comfrey known as Bocking 14. It is more vigourous than species comfrey and can only be spread by root cuttings. It's not invasive and it's likely the cultivar that is being grown on this farm. Hope that helps!
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply!! The information is much appreciated!! 😊
I’m constantly battling Canada thistle as well. What an awful weed
WE'RE GONNA NEED MORE COMPOST!!!@Disabled.Megatron
As others might have asked here, but what type of comfrey is used there ? I think the Bocking 14 is sterile due to flower shape, preventing pollinators to feed and do their job (not sure about this fact). But Comfrey can also really become invasive and is hard to remove once established.
We would appreciate more details on this point :) thanks for everything else, the content is great.
Jesse, if you ever read this : I'd like to buy your book directly from you but I'm in Europe and shipping costs as much as the book itself. Is there a better solution for us Europeans to get your book and you the money ?
Right now I'm considering buying it from a "cheap" retailer and just giving you money through donation or patreon. But there might be a better solution ?
Maybe there is option to buy e-book? I am in Europe too and have the same provlem ;)
Hi, I grow Bocking 14 and I believe they are also growing it on this farm. It looks identical. Bocking 14 is a sterile hybrid of two comfrey species. I can attest to the fact that bumblebees absolutely love it; they even visit the flowers many hours after it has been cut. So it is not sterile due to inability to feed pollinators :) And it is not invasive because it does not drop seeds. My patch has not spread at all over 7 years! Best wishes
OMG i NEED snakes then! So many slugs in Western WA! 😂
warshington, or westralia?
@ 9:20 , they're confusing Eliot Coleman for Bill Mollison (of permaculture fame)
Has anyone had any luck eradicating Bind Weed? I converted a lawn into a garden, by covering in cardboard and then new soil. Unfortunately the lawn contained bind weed, and it eventually sprouted up through the cardboard. My method so far, is to pull up what I can (the roots go down too deep) and then cover with multiple layers more cardboard and more soil. If there are any other techniques you have had success with, I'm all ears! Thanks!
Now i know why i dont have slugs anymore.
As someone who is just pulling off black plastic after occultaion of almost 2 years (!) on a quarter acre of comfrey, i had to laugh that you are using it to contain quackgrass. If I had to choose one noxious weed to have in my garden, i would almost choose the quackgrass. At least you have somewhat of a chance of getting a crop with quackgrass... but in solid comfrey... 😂
controlling weeds is a lot like being the SCP foundation but in real life. sometimes you have to use one crazy magic artifact to contain another
My comfrey program has just been exposed as lacking! ( Which I already knew.)
Same here!
Ok, so now are you or J&P collecting comfrey seed packets or roots to sell? ... I have used winter rye (and spring oats seems promising) to block quack and crab grass. Three years of a good rye stand is supposed to eradicate those grass problems (I found you need to bust the sod the first year, if no other tricks are used, then no-till after). I have a Buckwheat and late planted oats mix that is drowning out thistles, J&P might want to bury their thistles and heavy seed buckwheat and oats (separate and together to test what works for them best). Buckwheat brings in the beneficial insects.
Hi Jvin - where are you located? We are in sw colorado and trying to manage our thistle problem as well with compost and cover. I am curious when you planted your buckwheat and oats?
I’ve found peeing on them a couple times destroys thistle down to the roots
For my garden prep, I killed EVERYTHING on my lawn an replaced it with Dutch white clover.
Uh oh, did I make a big mistake in planting comfrey very close to my fruit trees? Will it’s root mass compete with my tree’s roots? I mean like 6 inches from the trunk.
How big are your fruit trees? If mature trees, probably the Comfrey won't bother them. When Comfrey becomes tall, laying it down (like they did in the video) will be a wonderful nutritious mulch for your Trees. It will retain moisture for them too. Comfrey is a very nutritious plant, so hopefully it will support your trees. Might be okay for smaller trees too, time will tell I suppose.
@@helentc thank you. My trees are between 2-4 years old. I think it might be more damaging to move them at this point. Fingers crossed!
Many of us don't consider dandelions to be weeds... flowers make wine, leaves great in salads roots can be roasted, dried and powdered and made into coffee.
I think this is a totally fine outlook and people should be more thoughtful about weeds. 100%. But in production agriculture, things like dandelions can be tremendously disruptive to production, costing significant time and money and yield.
What?! Coffee?!?!?! Seriously? Is it an actual flavor substitute? Cause you know coffee tree is not. Hmmmm I may have to try this. I've never heard this before. Thank you
@Disabled.Megatron , this one I have heard of but never tried.
Joel Salatin says cows will eat thistle if it’s dried. So, sounds like a lot of free feed to me 😂
And goats eat the purple flowers like candy!
Uur goats love it as well. The labor to pull and get up to their yard is intensive, but as we got further into our deep compost methods it does get easier.
SOME TYPES of comfrey won’t spread if you don’t disturb it. Some spread by seed readily. Some research in your chosen variety needed !
I'm told purslane can be eaten.
Such a short video to wait a week for.
Sheep goats and hogs all help defeat Canadian thistle
Why not just simply do a burn to the area and kill the root system.
It's the whole issue with no till. Weeding annuals is a piece of cake with any system (till or no-till). Perennials are THE problem. Couch grass, thistle and horsetail, in my part of the world. No solution on the no-till side so far... and that's a big + for tilling methods that can cover the crap for a season at least, imo 😞
3:55 that's what I'm talking about: this soil is no-till, really ? 🙂Perennials = end of the no-till wonderland bedtime stories.
6:30 For how long, exactly? 5, 6 years of 1-2 feets digging to try removing the rhizomes? That will improve the soil structure greatly. How is it no-till, exactly?
7:00 crab grass are NOT perennials, nor have true rhizomes, Am I wrong? Again: peace of cake to deal with in general compared to, let say, couch grass if you're organic or horsetail in general. Then comfrey can become the issue rather than the solution if you happen to mix roots in your compost or spay it by mistake one way or the other.
We NEED solutions with perennials in no-tills systems. I don't find any, so far...
I see Canada thistle as sin. Don't let even a little grow in your garden. Just like a little sin that is allowed to grow in your life, it will take over and corrupt your soul. Just a little left unchecked in your garden, it will multiply and take control of your garden
Jesus, mulch your crops. Bare ground is the worst approach to cropping
Their ground is mulched heavily with compost. This video for context: ua-cam.com/video/Y1mXk4xydio/v-deo.html
Okie dokie, just going with what I saw at 3.56
It depends on the place. Some places don't heat up fast enough for mulching to work well, as it insulates.
@@ellenorbjornsdottir1166 soil function is more important than just the speed in which it warms up.
It is more advantageous to have a functioning soil that warms slower and retains moisture longer through the drier months.
A functioning soil will also have a deeper and more aerated profile, and drain more readily, whilst holding moisture longer
I think you’re approaching the Thistle completely ridiculously. It’s a huge waste of labor.
All love but you’re spreading madness
What would be your approach?
Their approach is precisely what I would do. In the beginning of a garden, perhaps you could use a tarp for several months to at least to weaken it and then start with a thick layer of cardboard, but you would likely still have to pull some. You could start over with an new layer of compost and cardboard but that would be expensive and excessive. Thistle is a very persistent weed. Ditto Johnson grass, Bermuda grass, and bindweed.
@@ProlerSkyphet Let's take a wild guess as to your suggested alternative...I'm gonna guess "spray with roundup" because it's so much faster?
That would be where you and myself and likely the rest of us diverge since we see the labor as time well spent versus the application of chemicals that will undo much of their time managing their land.
Is it safe for chickens or humans to consume? Also other gardener channels say it is invasive except for the variety Bockin 14.
Dandelions are NOT weeds!
Thank you for power of knowledge. ❤️🍀🌿🥬
Thanks