Hi! One year late but this has been one of the most comprehensive and holistic guides to High Elves. Definitely looking forward to improving a lot of my previous mis-plays. Looking forward to binging more of your content and hope you keep up this quality of videos.
Was playing my first TW2 campaign ever, started with Imrik. And your dragon guide helped me out a ton! I collected all the dragons and still learned a lot about playing High Elves from the vid, thanks a bunch. :)
Hey that's awesome to hear. My Dark Elf content for WH2 is equally good imho, so that might be a good next stop as they're a fair bit more complex than their good counterparts.
@@ElvenPlotArmour you've just read my thoughts. ) I've tried all races to play and now think about starting dark elves or skaven campaign. I was really surprised that I liked skaven much more than lizardmen or tomb kings.
Good stuff! I could never quite get the High Elf campaign; it didn't quite suit me. On a whim, I was going to look for a playthrough, and I found this. Thank you! Some good nuances here.
Cheers mate. I've got early play through guides of all the HE Lords up now as well as a faction focus on each to break down how to best lever their strengths if that's of interest. Appreciate the comment and sub, good luck in your campaigns!
Alith Anar's faction is better than any other high elf faction. Being able to ambush attack on its own is enough to make him the number 1 high elf faction. Yes, he starts in a relatively more difficult position, but that's only gonna be relevant for the early stages of your campaign, and even then, it's not THAT difficult.
Yeah, in my Faction Rating he scored the highest of any High Elf in campaign strategy due to this ability. The underway ability is also very underrated! My faction ratings assess not just campaign ability but also the context of geopolitical and economic constraints which ultimately decide how well you can exercise these abilities. I agree Alith Anar and Alarielle have the most explosive map seizing potential but if I had to put money down on a random campaign and back a campaign's progress by Turn 50 I'd still back Tyrion. It's funny because he has arguably the most basic mechanics but he simply has unmatched ability to control his engagements and never be inhibited in his expansion. Ambushing is powerful, but a good army with lightning strike will handle most threats as well. But I do agree, Alith Anar can explode on the map far quicker than many give him credit for!
I always viewed the lothern sea guard as a 'national guard unit' or archery reserve/guard for archers, leaders, artillery, beasts, ect. They are just to inefficient to be used as a frontline combat unit, but in tests I've found them to be the best guards/combat rescue units or even early game reserves. In your humble opinion, what lores of magic are the best for high elves?
I use the term "crisis units" for those you need to quickly raise to deal with an imminent threat, and I 100% agree that once your economy is going LSG are great in this role, though even in the early/mid game a combo of spears and archers will serve just as well for cheaper. LSG are a brilliant crisis unit later on and my comments are to debunk the idea that you "doomstack" seaguard and disband your old units which is literally a waste of money. The old units will have ranks on them and perform well for a while yet and for a 'new' army simply wait for Sisters (same upkeep cost and an endgame unit). LSG are a great unit, but their basic spearmen and archers being so incredible is what leave them in limbo ever since Sisters were released. Silverin Guard imo are a much better unit than LSG - i'm thinking of doing a video on them.
Lore of Magic, I'm known as a pyromaniac because I gush so hard on fire magic, but the answer depends on the unit: Hero Mage = Fire.... end of discussion. Unless you want an entrepreneur, the sun dragon mount and fire magic being OP is the strongest unit of any HE Faction, a literal army slayer. As an Imrik main, his strength isn't him, it's because he starts with this unit. Loremaster of Hoeth = Life (3pts in Earthblood). Never get a Life Mage. Use these guys instead as your healers and they can tank. Use your mages for Fire or Entrepreneurs, not healing. Arch Mage = If I had to say one, I'd say Light for Net with Sisters. As a "Crisis" mage, go fire for burning head. Only time to ever choose Life is for a Dragon/Phoenix Stack, then again, a Loremaster can still cover this role if needed... TLDR: Light, Life, Fire Honorable Mention: High and Heavens
I don’t know if you will see this, but can you please tell me how to get silverin guards and sisters of averlorn? Also, this video is the best comprehensive guide I’ve ever seen. May great fortune forever bless you good sir.
These are units tied to DLC. The Queen & Crone from WH2 will provide Alarielle and Sisters and is also a good DLC for Dark Elves if you ever go that way. Warden and the Paunch (WH2) provides Eltharion, Silverin Guard and the Arcane Phoenix, their best monster. Not as essential but a great DLC to boot. Sisters of Avelorn are by far their strongest unit so you'll have an uphill battle without them, but it's more than doable :) Thanks for the kind words and good luck!
Cons: "Mediocre Offensive Melee" *sad White Lions and Swordmaster noises* (warning: wall of text about TT, tiers, HE buildings and infantry below) It's real shame, since on TT, high elf infantry (including their spearmen) were notorious for their high speed, high initiative, always strike first. Not to mention White Lions being same "tier" (same cost per model, both special category) as Swordmasters. Yeah, Swordmasters had higher Weapon Skill (basically MA+MD), and 2 attacks instead of one, but they had only Strength of 3 (+2 from Great Weapon) so they did 2x S5 attacks at 6 WS, meanwhile White Lions had 1x S6 attack (4 base strength + 2 from GW) at 5 WS. And while they had both the same speed, initiative, extra rank attack from Martial Prowess, toughness and both had heavy armor, White Lions also had Lion Cloak for better missile protection and Stubborn for better morale. I'd love to see White Lions be reworked into generalist T4 heavy AP infantry with Immune to Psych and better MA and Weapon Strenght (but not better at anti-inf than swordmasters, nor better at anti-large than PG). Right now, White Lions are just worse than swordmasters and only really have place in mutliplayer against high armor matchups (Chaos and Dwarves). Imo, the biggest issue high elf t2-3 units is the number of recruitment buildings and the weak HE economy at the start (requiring PO building). If White Lions got buffed into a T4 heavy AP generalist infantry and the redline cav building got removed with Silver Helms being put at T3 barracks (or T3 smith) and Reavers into T2 grove next to eagles, I think it could help the early-mid game army variety of high elves quite a bit. You could get your "glitering host" units from a single barracks chain, eg.: rangers, LSG, Shadow Warriors, Silver Helms and Silverin Guard. You could also get fast light flankers from T2 grove in eagles and reavers and eventually getting to those tasty T4 White Lions and Sisters all in one chain. And while this seems like it could put Swordmasters even further behind, I don't think so. Now you'd have your bruiser T4 White Lions and even more Tanky T5 PG for your frontline brawling, which could enable your Swordmasters to flank around and do their damage. Couple that with Resistant Prince, Resistant Handmaiden and lvl 7 redline buffs and suddenly both your WL and Swordmasters have 35% magic rest (15% from lord, 5% handmaiden, 15% red line), +15% missile resist (10% lord, 5% handmaiden) +23 MD (5 lord, 5 handmaiden, 5+8 red skill line), +8 MA & +10% WS (red skill line). I feel having beefy T4-5 frontline units like that would imo open up quite a bit of options for HE even on VH battle difficulty that go beyond missile or Dragon spam. Anyways, great video, though I would note that Moon Dragons are good challengers to Star Dragons despite their lower stats. Star Dragon breath is good at sniping single entities, a task that is already handled well by Sisters of Avelorn. Meanwhile Moon Dragon offers a wider AP breath, great against units of armoured elite infantry/cav, something you are bound to fight against once get into late game war with Chaos and Dark Elves.
Firstly, much love to a fellow HE tabletop player! I like the way you wish to divide the roster into its parts and quality of infantry. I definitely feel the difficulty is trying to integrate this along with the other races into a uniform system that works in tandem with the game engine. While I do understand the fact HE do gravitate towards missile and dragon spam, most of the races fall into an end game formula and HE actually have a good number of units that work well, unlike others which require a fairly mono-doomstack. As for swordmasters and whitelions, I'll play devils advocate and say they aren't in as bad place as many claim. with the building reworks I find myself hiring occationally 1-2 units of either of these (depending what turn) and using them in reserve to flank and help break lines. Since the Woodlands building line was required for Sisters, I've found myself hiring the odd unit and having good results (on Legendary), but here's what people don't consider. It's only 1-2 units MAX in an army. It'll make the difference but you can't build an army out of it. Yes, it is a minimal role, but HE are NOT an offensive infantry army. They never will be. A true high elf holds a shield in one hand and braids their hair with the other. Offensive melee assists the other stengths and it can achieve this. Tbh, on the tabletop HE perform quite respectably in 8E comparatively! Last thing, massive props for the "martial prowess" rule. This makes the HE function in Total War and be true to the lore.
hope to see a long walkthroug from you on this nice race, any of the strating locations would do, you have a really sothing voice ideal for campagin :)
I do plan on streaming Legendary campaigns in a few weeks. I'm currently grinding hard to build an audience and get these concise guides out (the short vids ironically take longer to make haha). Really appreciate the comment and sub. Thanks champion!
I’ve been binge watching your content, it is top tier! I have some questions. I recently tried to follow your strat to confederate Caledor early, but it seems much more difficult now. Also, what is the significance of confederating Caledor first specifically? You advise us to gain control of the gates, but how do we get them without going to war with the other factions? Is it through confederation? Also, your battle formation guide has helped me a lot! Thanks in advance!
Appreciated mate. Confederating Caledor in WH2 was key as it gave eyes on Imrik, way down in the southlands, making it easier to confederate him. In WH3 he doesn't die early like he did before so it's nowhere near as urgent, plus confederations are easier to get. In WH3, as Tyrion, either work to get Caledor on side and attack Saphery, or simply conquer them early. Other than those 2, avoid all other wars with the High Elves. You'll get the gates with confederations, as long as they're under high elf control, you're fine. Military Alliances in WH3 are very good as you get influence from outposts :)
@@ElvenPlotArmour Thanks for the detailed response! I am still playing WH2. I got it free with Amazon Prime, but I’m loving it so much already! I look forward to more content, keep it up.
I have a video coming out in a couple of days addressing exactly that. In short: Empire, Dwarfs, Lizardmen are all great choices with base armies and lords.
Really really good guide mate. So ive heard a bit of different oponions about silvern guard. People like Legend of total war just say they are awfull as they are expensive. I was interested about your thoughts.
Silverin Guard are the most underrated unit in the HE roster and are handsdown their best campaign infantry. You only need 1 barracks in your entire empire to globally recruit from and can be done in a single turn. They'll hold against anything until the lategame, by which time you'll have enough characters to do frontline duties. One of my most researched and favourite vids is my HE Tierlist. It's long but packed, so you might enjoy it: ua-cam.com/video/zUo6stR_ELg/v-deo.html Cheers for watching
Thanks mate. Virtually everything in this guide still stands except the starting positions so I'll probably hold off a full remake when they get a rework or when the pieces land for IE (still talk of moving Teclis). The individual mastery guides will absolutely be redone in IE too as some have changed dramatically.
Always been confused by the HE economy tbh - Elven trinkets is the go to, but when it comes to Ports and Entertainment i find the Embassy/Gardens to be hit or miss. Eataine only has 2 ports where as Yvresse has 3, so Yvresse would benefit from an Embassy for sure. but taking a Gardens if you've only slapped one Entertainment in your capital feels like a wasted slot (in terms of income at any rate) Perhaps im missing something or other but i guess i struggle to know when/where to put an Embassy/Garden into a province to get the most benefit. Eataine for me, would look like this (end game): Lothern - Port, Trinkets, Entertainment, Landmark, Grove, Mage Tower, Blacksmith and then either Shrine or Dragon Lair with last slot taken up most likely by Gardens? Tower of Lysean - Trinkets, Stables? and Entertainment? Angerrial - Trinkets, Port, Wine Shrine of Asuryan - Landmark, Trinkets, Embassy/Entertainment? Garden in Capitol would show its worth if i chose Entertainment as fillers, but not sure if Embassy would be worth it for 2 ports etc. But with 2 region provinces like Ellyrion, is it worth using up one of the Capitols 6/7 slots to get a Gardens just for one/two Entertainments? Same with something like Saphery with only one Port; do you slap an Embassy in the province anywhere or nah? /end ramble :p
There's always exceptions but as rule of thumb: Ports are excellent for money+growth, Entertainment in capital only unless it's a conquest in need of public order (entertainment generally only makes more from exploits long term), max growth till maxed then knock down for trinkets or entertainment for extra gold, Woodlands and Mage Tower are a must at each capital as is the Noble Building to increase hero caps (this results in more income but don't prioritize these over your other needs). Shrines only for corrupt settlements and Dragon Keep only if you want Dragons, otherwise this slot could provide an extra hero. Entrepreneur Mages and Handmaidens along side Nobles boosting Tradables will boost. I do use embassies but only where there are ports, but this is also due to the added benefit of extra influence. Trinket makers are great, if you see a player not using them it's because they're exploiting the disbanded lord exploit and farming +1% entertainment income buff.
@@ElvenPlotArmour - ok, cheers for the reply; i'll aim to give all the above a go on my current playthrough :) on T34 atm with Elth and Tec still to go, but curb stomping CoP thanks to that formation, lol
this must have all been patched out shortly after the vid, i have found that every high elf faction no matter how weak they are or how strong you are refuses 100% of attempts to confederate them, while naggarrond by turn 50 usually has 80-90 settlements
Hey mate, confederations are as clear as mud and seem nonsensical, but unless your NPC factions get a bad trait it should be consistently possible. You'll need 40% Balance of Power compared to theirs and they need to not be in a dominant situation. Often when their leader is wounded they'll feel desperate enough to join you. Recommend my Diplomacy Mastery video!
Thank you so much for the guide. currently doing a nagarythe legendary campaign and its going really well. i am at turn 97 and i didn’t confederate all of ulthuan yet (specifically caledor and eataine) because i am keeping them as a buffer against the dark elves. caledor currently controls the broken lands and has infiltrated the deadwood a bit while i am just defending hag graef without a sweat. i made sure my campaign would be an easy one by nit picking diplomatic traits and caledor had ardent at the beginning but when the chaos invasion arrived they suddenly became wary, is this a mechanic or a bug? i really wanna confederate caledor because they control the tiranoc province and eatine keeps on loitering in their area without a military access agreement and no matter how hard i influence them to be allies they wont go above a non aggression pact despite having 100+ relations. i just wanna know that if i beat the first chaos invasion will it revert caledor back into being ardent? also i really love your content and you are without a doubt an underrated channel
Firstly, thanks and stoked to help. Great to see you valuing the benefits of keeping friendly borders and not rushing confederations that might overextend you. Not utilising diplomacy with High Elves is like a wasted currency imho, good work! It's not a race, it's a story where you win as long as you survive. Nagarythe are very powerful but far from a safe start. Where you are is a good time to consolidate that middle portion of the map. Assuming you have Titan Peaks? The second/final wave of Chaos will waste Malekith so don't feel the need to overextend here. Regarding Caledor, so long as you're friendly with Tyrion, just rush confederate them by dropping some gifts and some influence at them to get them in a couple of turns (assuming they only hold the 4 Settlements?). Tyrion will get over it. Regarding the traits changing, I've heard of it happening but haven't really paid much attention to it. Chaos tend to make the ordertide come together so it's a great time to snatch up the lands, particularly by the second invasion.
@@ElvenPlotArmour thank you so much! caledor had around 11 settlements and i confederated them around turn 100. i was lucky that the bounty bonus reseted and the targets were nearby and they all had the 20+ high diplomacy bonus.
entrepreneur doesnt give tax bonus anymore. is it useful to get it now? anything better i should focus on instead? any very useful trait for the economy?
In WH3, Entrepreneur is useless in the way it was previously used. I would actually only use it on an arch mage stationed to defend a wealthy province if I had tonnes of influence and it was late game. There are much better traits to get now. You're now free to use your mages on the battlefield and are encouraged to focus more on trade. You can hire level 10 lords to boost your tradables now and most legendary lords boost tradables factionwide. Get these. I have a full WH3 conversion cost here: ua-cam.com/video/aMcMgmTSj5U/v-deo.html
@@cobrazax Mage traits honestly aren't that important unless you're cheesing Ent. Nobles have the best, Conscientious, Emollient etc. Handmaidens and Loremasters with Fecund are great for power levelling provinces. Mages are strong for their spells, not their traits.
@@ElvenPlotArmour so i shouldnt bother with Ent now that it doesnt give a global tax bonus? u only recommend these traits? which traits i should focus my mages on?
Indeed. Imrik cares not for what the rest of the high elves are doing. He's to busy marching a mediocre army in the Badlands, searching for blood and Dragons to add to his ranks :) That's why I love his campaign so much. He doesn't even need to acknowledge Ulthuan and gets to throw down with a multitude of enemies making his campaign so unique. Thanks for watching. If you're an Imrik fan check out my 'This is Total Imrik' 24 hour stream highlights:)
The Mortal Empires map is different from the standard vortex map, however, the grand strategy with Tyrion still applies. If you attack other elves, only attack Saphery, the rest should be defensive allied and then confederated in due coarse :)
It depends what you're after in a campaign. If you just want to win the campaign it's easier without splitting your attention but you miss out on getting Alarielle who's a great help. If you just want to play to short victory, don't worry about Caledor. If you want to play to long victory and finish the Dark Elves, then you need to confederate into Caledor and consolidate Ulthuan back under HE control
@@cobrazax In WH3, I definitely would. If you miss out, you can always get the Technology (bottom right research tree) that uncovers ports to find them and/or sealane to them, make a foothold and fight your way through that way. The only bad campaign is one you lose ;)
@@ElvenPlotArmour In wh2 i shouldnt confederate them from that decision event?? Btw should i build an embassy in a region with no ports? Is there something better to build? I got growth and industry there already
@@cobrazax @cobrazax In WH2 you may as well, though it makes a harder campaign but will give more dynamic. I typically only build an embassy when a port is available. Only exception is when I've hit T5 and can scrap growth buildings
Been playing over a year now and I've quit and lost more than I've won on easy difficulty. Pretty damn difficult for me, for whatever reason there has to be something I'm just not getting. If anybody else can POTENTIALLY tell me what I could be doing wrong that would be awesome. My early game success is great, mid game is pretty good but then I just start losing EVERYTHING. I also gotta say Alith Anar is the best high elf lord
Not quite the case, but I can understand why it appears that way! In WH3 every missile unit had a reload time increase to help fix the broken missile meta that was WH2. Also, the AI melee buffs have been tuned down so the result is the stopping power of arrows is not as great. The result is you need more spearmen to hold the line. Try 5 spears (see my 8 unit types video on the setup) with 11 archers + hero and support units, including a mage. High Elves are still Top Tier, it's just a different game system and once you're used to it you'll be smashing it soon :) EDIT: Also, martial prowess got buffed to stay active until 25% remaining health (was 50% prior) so HE are now better in melee now, substantially. I can promise you, it's just formations and army composition.
Hi! One year late but this has been one of the most comprehensive and holistic guides to High Elves. Definitely looking forward to improving a lot of my previous mis-plays.
Looking forward to binging more of your content and hope you keep up this quality of videos.
Appreciate it mate. I'll be covering everything in the upcoming Immortal Empires too. Hope to see you there!
Was playing my first TW2 campaign ever, started with Imrik. And your dragon guide helped me out a ton! I collected all the dragons and still learned a lot about playing High Elves from the vid, thanks a bunch. :)
Hey glad it helped out! Cheers for the comment!
Still the best High Elf guide on UA-cam.
Appreciate it mate, a lot went in so it's amazing to hear that kind of feedback
Man I love your channel, I am such a huge fan of elven races and have been having fun with Warhammer recently, this content is exactly what I needed.
Thanks mate, cheers for watching!
Thanks very much for your guides! From the second try I finished Tyrion campaign on a very hard difficulty. 😅
Hey that's awesome to hear. My Dark Elf content for WH2 is equally good imho, so that might be a good next stop as they're a fair bit more complex than their good counterparts.
@@ElvenPlotArmour you've just read my thoughts. ) I've tried all races to play and now think about starting dark elves or skaven campaign. I was really surprised that I liked skaven much more than lizardmen or tomb kings.
really, really great beginner guide. thank you!
Thanks for the comment and sub!
Good stuff! I could never quite get the High Elf campaign; it didn't quite suit me. On a whim, I was going to look for a playthrough, and I found this. Thank you! Some good nuances here.
Cheers mate. I've got early play through guides of all the HE Lords up now as well as a faction focus on each to break down how to best lever their strengths if that's of interest. Appreciate the comment and sub, good luck in your campaigns!
Best beginning guide i have seen for wh2. Thank you!!
Glad it helped. Cheers for the comment and sub.
Good luck in your next campaign and feel free to drop any questions!
Alith Anar's faction is better than any other high elf faction. Being able to ambush attack on its own is enough to make him the number 1 high elf faction. Yes, he starts in a relatively more difficult position, but that's only gonna be relevant for the early stages of your campaign, and even then, it's not THAT difficult.
Yeah, in my Faction Rating he scored the highest of any High Elf in campaign strategy due to this ability. The underway ability is also very underrated! My faction ratings assess not just campaign ability but also the context of geopolitical and economic constraints which ultimately decide how well you can exercise these abilities. I agree Alith Anar and Alarielle have the most explosive map seizing potential but if I had to put money down on a random campaign and back a campaign's progress by Turn 50 I'd still back Tyrion. It's funny because he has arguably the most basic mechanics but he simply has unmatched ability to control his engagements and never be inhibited in his expansion. Ambushing is powerful, but a good army with lightning strike will handle most threats as well. But I do agree, Alith Anar can explode on the map far quicker than many give him credit for!
Not to mention his unique units are REALLY damn good
Incredible Campaign Guide! Thank you.
My pleasure!
Your guides are the best! Thank you for sharing the tips! :)
Thanks mate, hope the rest of the channel provides some good incite. There's an entire High Elves Playlist there :)
I always viewed the lothern sea guard as a 'national guard unit' or archery reserve/guard for archers, leaders, artillery, beasts, ect. They are just to inefficient to be used as a frontline combat unit, but in tests I've found them to be the best guards/combat rescue units or even early game reserves.
In your humble opinion, what lores of magic are the best for high elves?
I use the term "crisis units" for those you need to quickly raise to deal with an imminent threat, and I 100% agree that once your economy is going LSG are great in this role, though even in the early/mid game a combo of spears and archers will serve just as well for cheaper. LSG are a brilliant crisis unit later on and my comments are to debunk the idea that you "doomstack" seaguard and disband your old units which is literally a waste of money. The old units will have ranks on them and perform well for a while yet and for a 'new' army simply wait for Sisters (same upkeep cost and an endgame unit). LSG are a great unit, but their basic spearmen and archers being so incredible is what leave them in limbo ever since Sisters were released. Silverin Guard imo are a much better unit than LSG - i'm thinking of doing a video on them.
Lore of Magic, I'm known as a pyromaniac because I gush so hard on fire magic, but the answer depends on the unit:
Hero Mage = Fire.... end of discussion. Unless you want an entrepreneur, the sun dragon mount and fire magic being OP is the strongest unit of any HE Faction, a literal army slayer. As an Imrik main, his strength isn't him, it's because he starts with this unit.
Loremaster of Hoeth = Life (3pts in Earthblood). Never get a Life Mage. Use these guys instead as your healers and they can tank. Use your mages for Fire or Entrepreneurs, not healing.
Arch Mage = If I had to say one, I'd say Light for Net with Sisters. As a "Crisis" mage, go fire for burning head. Only time to ever choose Life is for a Dragon/Phoenix Stack, then again, a Loremaster can still cover this role if needed...
TLDR: Light, Life, Fire
Honorable Mention: High and Heavens
I don’t know if you will see this, but can you please tell me how to get silverin guards and sisters of averlorn?
Also, this video is the best comprehensive guide I’ve ever seen. May great fortune forever bless you good sir.
These are units tied to DLC. The Queen & Crone from WH2 will provide Alarielle and Sisters and is also a good DLC for Dark Elves if you ever go that way. Warden and the Paunch (WH2) provides Eltharion, Silverin Guard and the Arcane Phoenix, their best monster. Not as essential but a great DLC to boot. Sisters of Avelorn are by far their strongest unit so you'll have an uphill battle without them, but it's more than doable :) Thanks for the kind words and good luck!
That was a good video! 👍 thanks for the refresher.
Thanks for watching!
thanks so much for this, the warhammer ip got me into this series but its my first strategy outside of civ lol
Welcome! It's a great series with endless replayability. Enjoy!
Cons: "Mediocre Offensive Melee"
*sad White Lions and Swordmaster noises*
(warning: wall of text about TT, tiers, HE buildings and infantry below)
It's real shame, since on TT, high elf infantry (including their spearmen) were notorious for their high speed, high initiative, always strike first. Not to mention White Lions being same "tier" (same cost per model, both special category) as Swordmasters. Yeah, Swordmasters had higher Weapon Skill (basically MA+MD), and 2 attacks instead of one, but they had only Strength of 3 (+2 from Great Weapon) so they did 2x S5 attacks at 6 WS, meanwhile White Lions had 1x S6 attack (4 base strength + 2 from GW) at 5 WS. And while they had both the same speed, initiative, extra rank attack from Martial Prowess, toughness and both had heavy armor, White Lions also had Lion Cloak for better missile protection and Stubborn for better morale.
I'd love to see White Lions be reworked into generalist T4 heavy AP infantry with Immune to Psych and better MA and Weapon Strenght (but not better at anti-inf than swordmasters, nor better at anti-large than PG).
Right now, White Lions are just worse than swordmasters and only really have place in mutliplayer against high armor matchups (Chaos and Dwarves). Imo, the biggest issue high elf t2-3 units is the number of recruitment buildings and the weak HE economy at the start (requiring PO building).
If White Lions got buffed into a T4 heavy AP generalist infantry and the redline cav building got removed with Silver Helms being put at T3 barracks (or T3 smith) and Reavers into T2 grove next to eagles, I think it could help the early-mid game army variety of high elves quite a bit. You could get your "glitering host" units from a single barracks chain, eg.: rangers, LSG, Shadow Warriors, Silver Helms and Silverin Guard. You could also get fast light flankers from T2 grove in eagles and reavers and eventually getting to those tasty T4 White Lions and Sisters all in one chain.
And while this seems like it could put Swordmasters even further behind, I don't think so. Now you'd have your bruiser T4 White Lions and even more Tanky T5 PG for your frontline brawling, which could enable your Swordmasters to flank around and do their damage. Couple that with Resistant Prince, Resistant Handmaiden and lvl 7 redline buffs and suddenly both your WL and Swordmasters have 35% magic rest (15% from lord, 5% handmaiden, 15% red line), +15% missile resist (10% lord, 5% handmaiden) +23 MD (5 lord, 5 handmaiden, 5+8 red skill line), +8 MA & +10% WS (red skill line).
I feel having beefy T4-5 frontline units like that would imo open up quite a bit of options for HE even on VH battle difficulty that go beyond missile or Dragon spam.
Anyways, great video, though I would note that Moon Dragons are good challengers to Star Dragons despite their lower stats. Star Dragon breath is good at sniping single entities, a task that is already handled well by Sisters of Avelorn. Meanwhile Moon Dragon offers a wider AP breath, great against units of armoured elite infantry/cav, something you are bound to fight against once get into late game war with Chaos and Dark Elves.
Firstly, much love to a fellow HE tabletop player! I like the way you wish to divide the roster into its parts and quality of infantry. I definitely feel the difficulty is trying to integrate this along with the other races into a uniform system that works in tandem with the game engine. While I do understand the fact HE do gravitate towards missile and dragon spam, most of the races fall into an end game formula and HE actually have a good number of units that work well, unlike others which require a fairly mono-doomstack. As for swordmasters and whitelions, I'll play devils advocate and say they aren't in as bad place as many claim. with the building reworks I find myself hiring occationally 1-2 units of either of these (depending what turn) and using them in reserve to flank and help break lines. Since the Woodlands building line was required for Sisters, I've found myself hiring the odd unit and having good results (on Legendary), but here's what people don't consider. It's only 1-2 units MAX in an army. It'll make the difference but you can't build an army out of it.
Yes, it is a minimal role, but HE are NOT an offensive infantry army. They never will be. A true high elf holds a shield in one hand and braids their hair with the other. Offensive melee assists the other stengths and it can achieve this. Tbh, on the tabletop HE perform quite respectably in 8E comparatively! Last thing, massive props for the "martial prowess" rule. This makes the HE function in Total War and be true to the lore.
Thanks mate, very good work!
Cheers mate. Thanks for the comment and sub!
hope to see a long walkthroug from you on this nice race, any of the strating locations would do, you have a really sothing voice ideal for campagin :)
I do plan on streaming Legendary campaigns in a few weeks. I'm currently grinding hard to build an audience and get these concise guides out (the short vids ironically take longer to make haha). Really appreciate the comment and sub. Thanks champion!
i hope you got lot more subs cos your videos are great man
Thanks mate, working hard to get content out. Appreciate the sub and support!
I’ve been binge watching your content, it is top tier!
I have some questions.
I recently tried to follow your strat to confederate Caledor early, but it seems much more difficult now.
Also, what is the significance of confederating Caledor first specifically?
You advise us to gain control of the gates, but how do we get them without going to war with the other factions? Is it through confederation?
Also, your battle formation guide has helped me a lot!
Thanks in advance!
Appreciated mate. Confederating Caledor in WH2 was key as it gave eyes on Imrik, way down in the southlands, making it easier to confederate him. In WH3 he doesn't die early like he did before so it's nowhere near as urgent, plus confederations are easier to get. In WH3, as Tyrion, either work to get Caledor on side and attack Saphery, or simply conquer them early. Other than those 2, avoid all other wars with the High Elves.
You'll get the gates with confederations, as long as they're under high elf control, you're fine. Military Alliances in WH3 are very good as you get influence from outposts :)
@@ElvenPlotArmour Thanks for the detailed response!
I am still playing WH2. I got it free with Amazon Prime, but I’m loving it so much already!
I look forward to more content, keep it up.
Great guide! What would be a recomended army for someone who doesn't own the dlcs?
I have a video coming out in a couple of days addressing exactly that.
In short: Empire, Dwarfs, Lizardmen are all great choices with base armies and lords.
Really really good guide mate.
So ive heard a bit of different oponions about silvern guard. People like Legend of total war just say they are awfull as they are expensive. I was interested about your thoughts.
Silverin Guard are the most underrated unit in the HE roster and are handsdown their best campaign infantry. You only need 1 barracks in your entire empire to globally recruit from and can be done in a single turn. They'll hold against anything until the lategame, by which time you'll have enough characters to do frontline duties. One of my most researched and favourite vids is my HE Tierlist. It's long but packed, so you might enjoy it:
ua-cam.com/video/zUo6stR_ELg/v-deo.html
Cheers for watching
Just great guide mate, are u planning in updating this kind of high elves videos for TWW3 now that we got IE? thanks mate good job
Thanks mate. Virtually everything in this guide still stands except the starting positions so I'll probably hold off a full remake when they get a rework or when the pieces land for IE (still talk of moving Teclis).
The individual mastery guides will absolutely be redone in IE too as some have changed dramatically.
Always been confused by the HE economy tbh - Elven trinkets is the go to, but when it comes to Ports and Entertainment i find the Embassy/Gardens to be hit or miss. Eataine only has 2 ports where as Yvresse has 3, so Yvresse would benefit from an Embassy for sure. but taking a Gardens if you've only slapped one Entertainment in your capital feels like a wasted slot (in terms of income at any rate)
Perhaps im missing something or other but i guess i struggle to know when/where to put an Embassy/Garden into a province to get the most benefit.
Eataine for me, would look like this (end game):
Lothern - Port, Trinkets, Entertainment, Landmark, Grove, Mage Tower, Blacksmith and then either Shrine or Dragon Lair with last slot taken up most likely by Gardens?
Tower of Lysean - Trinkets, Stables? and Entertainment?
Angerrial - Trinkets, Port, Wine
Shrine of Asuryan - Landmark, Trinkets, Embassy/Entertainment?
Garden in Capitol would show its worth if i chose Entertainment as fillers, but not sure if Embassy would be worth it for 2 ports etc.
But with 2 region provinces like Ellyrion, is it worth using up one of the Capitols 6/7 slots to get a Gardens just for one/two Entertainments? Same with something like Saphery with only one Port; do you slap an Embassy in the province anywhere or nah?
/end ramble :p
There's always exceptions but as rule of thumb:
Ports are excellent for money+growth, Entertainment in capital only unless it's a conquest in need of public order (entertainment generally only makes more from exploits long term), max growth till maxed then knock down for trinkets or entertainment for extra gold, Woodlands and Mage Tower are a must at each capital as is the Noble Building to increase hero caps (this results in more income but don't prioritize these over your other needs).
Shrines only for corrupt settlements and Dragon Keep only if you want Dragons, otherwise this slot could provide an extra hero. Entrepreneur Mages and Handmaidens along side Nobles boosting Tradables will boost. I do use embassies but only where there are ports, but this is also due to the added benefit of extra influence. Trinket makers are great, if you see a player not using them it's because they're exploiting the disbanded lord exploit and farming +1% entertainment income buff.
@@ElvenPlotArmour - ok, cheers for the reply; i'll aim to give all the above a go on my current playthrough :) on T34 atm with Elth and Tec still to go, but curb stomping CoP thanks to that formation, lol
this must have all been patched out shortly after the vid, i have found that every high elf faction no matter how weak they are or how strong you are refuses 100% of attempts to confederate them, while naggarrond by turn 50 usually has 80-90 settlements
Hey mate, confederations are as clear as mud and seem nonsensical, but unless your NPC factions get a bad trait it should be consistently possible. You'll need 40% Balance of Power compared to theirs and they need to not be in a dominant situation. Often when their leader is wounded they'll feel desperate enough to join you. Recommend my Diplomacy Mastery video!
Thank you so much for the guide. currently doing a nagarythe legendary campaign and its going really well. i am at turn 97 and i didn’t confederate all of ulthuan yet (specifically caledor and eataine) because i am keeping them as a buffer against the dark elves. caledor currently controls the broken lands and has infiltrated the deadwood a bit while i am just defending hag graef without a sweat. i made sure my campaign would be an easy one by nit picking diplomatic traits and caledor had ardent at the beginning but when the chaos invasion arrived they suddenly became wary, is this a mechanic or a bug? i really wanna confederate caledor because they control the tiranoc province and eatine keeps on loitering in their area without a military access agreement and no matter how hard i influence them to be allies they wont go above a non aggression pact despite having 100+ relations. i just wanna know that if i beat the first chaos invasion will it revert caledor back into being ardent? also i really love your content and you are without a doubt an underrated channel
Firstly, thanks and stoked to help. Great to see you valuing the benefits of keeping friendly borders and not rushing confederations that might overextend you. Not utilising diplomacy with High Elves is like a wasted currency imho, good work! It's not a race, it's a story where you win as long as you survive. Nagarythe are very powerful but far from a safe start. Where you are is a good time to consolidate that middle portion of the map. Assuming you have Titan Peaks? The second/final wave of Chaos will waste Malekith so don't feel the need to overextend here. Regarding Caledor, so long as you're friendly with Tyrion, just rush confederate them by dropping some gifts and some influence at them to get them in a couple of turns (assuming they only hold the 4 Settlements?). Tyrion will get over it. Regarding the traits changing, I've heard of it happening but haven't really paid much attention to it. Chaos tend to make the ordertide come together so it's a great time to snatch up the lands, particularly by the second invasion.
@@ElvenPlotArmour thank you so much! caledor had around 11 settlements and i confederated them around turn 100. i was lucky that the bounty bonus reseted and the targets were nearby and they all had the 20+ high diplomacy bonus.
entrepreneur doesnt give tax bonus anymore. is it useful to get it now? anything better i should focus on instead? any very useful trait for the economy?
In WH3, Entrepreneur is useless in the way it was previously used. I would actually only use it on an arch mage stationed to defend a wealthy province if I had tonnes of influence and it was late game. There are much better traits to get now. You're now free to use your mages on the battlefield and are encouraged to focus more on trade. You can hire level 10 lords to boost your tradables now and most legendary lords boost tradables factionwide. Get these. I have a full WH3 conversion cost here:
ua-cam.com/video/aMcMgmTSj5U/v-deo.html
@@ElvenPlotArmour
Im talking abiut wh2...
I just want to know which traits i should focus on now.
@@cobrazax Mage traits honestly aren't that important unless you're cheesing Ent. Nobles have the best, Conscientious, Emollient etc. Handmaidens and Loremasters with Fecund are great for power levelling provinces. Mages are strong for their spells, not their traits.
@@ElvenPlotArmour
so i shouldnt bother with Ent now that it doesnt give a global tax bonus?
u only recommend these traits?
which traits i should focus my mages on?
On the battlefield they adopt a defensive playstyle...
Imrik wants to know your location
Indeed. Imrik cares not for what the rest of the high elves are doing. He's to busy marching a mediocre army in the Badlands, searching for blood and Dragons to add to his ranks :) That's why I love his campaign so much. He doesn't even need to acknowledge Ulthuan and gets to throw down with a multitude of enemies making his campaign so unique. Thanks for watching. If you're an Imrik fan check out my 'This is Total Imrik' 24 hour stream highlights:)
Great video
Cheers mate. Thanks for supporting the channel!
i love this game... but whenever i play this game i always go back to shogun 2
So now it looks like when you play Tyrion on vortex. Lorthren is missing Angereial.
Or am I missing something
The Mortal Empires map is different from the standard vortex map, however, the grand strategy with Tyrion still applies. If you attack other elves, only attack Saphery, the rest should be defensive allied and then confederated in due coarse :)
@@ElvenPlotArmour ty for the reply
Great guides
Quality af
Cheers mate, welcome to the channel!
so u recommend for imrik to NOT confederate Caledor when the option emerges??
It depends what you're after in a campaign. If you just want to win the campaign it's easier without splitting your attention but you miss out on getting Alarielle who's a great help. If you just want to play to short victory, don't worry about Caledor. If you want to play to long victory and finish the Dark Elves, then you need to confederate into Caledor and consolidate Ulthuan back under HE control
@@ElvenPlotArmour
So for the long game, i should confederate them the moment the choice is presented?
@@cobrazax In WH3, I definitely would. If you miss out, you can always get the Technology (bottom right research tree) that uncovers ports to find them and/or sealane to them, make a foothold and fight your way through that way. The only bad campaign is one you lose ;)
@@ElvenPlotArmour
In wh2 i shouldnt confederate them from that decision event??
Btw should i build an embassy in a region with no ports? Is there something better to build? I got growth and industry there already
@@cobrazax @cobrazax In WH2 you may as well, though it makes a harder campaign but will give more dynamic. I typically only build an embassy when a port is available. Only exception is when I've hit T5 and can scrap growth buildings
hawkish precision is giving the bonus at LONG RANGE ONLY. the enemy must be further away than 70 meters. read the text carefully
Been playing over a year now and I've quit and lost more than I've won on easy difficulty. Pretty damn difficult for me, for whatever reason there has to be something I'm just not getting. If anybody else can POTENTIALLY tell me what I could be doing wrong that would be awesome. My early game success is great, mid game is pretty good but then I just start losing EVERYTHING. I also gotta say Alith Anar is the best high elf lord
High elves used to be good.
But i think tweaks have been made recently because they route faster than skaven these days.
Not quite the case, but I can understand why it appears that way! In WH3 every missile unit had a reload time increase to help fix the broken missile meta that was WH2. Also, the AI melee buffs have been tuned down so the result is the stopping power of arrows is not as great. The result is you need more spearmen to hold the line. Try 5 spears (see my 8 unit types video on the setup) with 11 archers + hero and support units, including a mage. High Elves are still Top Tier, it's just a different game system and once you're used to it you'll be smashing it soon :)
EDIT: Also, martial prowess got buffed to stay active until 25% remaining health (was 50% prior) so HE are now better in melee now, substantially. I can promise you, it's just formations and army composition.