This is like "chemical milling." We started performing that process in our Plating Shop before I retired. I don't recall how the Chemists determined how to shrink the pattern cutouts to allow for the undercutting that Chem Milling does, but I suspect that similar methods would be used to determine how to modify your patterns appropriately. Even if you can't find the "shrink ratio" (for lack of a better term) in a book or online, trial & error will work. Of course, the "shrink ratios" will vary for different materials being etched. I _really_ like what you did here and will have to try it myself in my workshop and/or "pole barn" (which has good ventilation) on a future project! ;)
Yes, it's exactly the same process, just with chemical milling /ECM you let it run for longer to remove more material. You can also use specialised electrodes that themselves have masks and channels to flush the electrolyte through to control the shape of the cavities produced and reduce the undercutting issue. I have used chemical milling to make moulds for plastic and rubber parts just using a vinyl mask very similar to what's shown in this video, it's only suitable for certain shapes with limited depth and it can be hard to get the parts out of the mould afterwards due to the rough surface produced by the etching.
If you haven't seen it yet, "Applied Science" has a GREAT video on a diy workflow for Photochemical Machining. I think it is for cutting all the way through, not a surface etch, but worth a look either way. I'm documenting it further on OSE's wiki, and would love to build the machines sometime!
Just got randomly reccommended your videos and I love them! I dont usually leave comments but your explanations are always sooo clear and your machines are always super interesting!! Excited for your next video :)
Nice job. I used to use a wax crayon to fill engraved letter's provided they are deep enough (crayons are specific for engraving) buff after. Another method was to use engraving paint. To remove excess ink I would wrap a scrap piece of board with paper towel soaked with paraffin wiping the face with the wrapped board flat on the job. Move to a clean spot on the paper and repeat, after two or three wipes the paint will not smear.
Yes, I've seen those wax crayons. I think it's also called dial wax as it was used by clock makers. As the etched surface is quite rough, paint sticks to it fairly well, but I'll have to get some of those crayons to try out. I've only ever seen black ones but I assume they come in other colours too?
@@AndysMachines yeah. Engravers wax gives some results on UK eBay. Think you'll want the hard type. Not sure what the soft type is used for mind. Rather pricey. Yes does come in a few colours. One stick will last a couple of life times!
Cutting plotter for mask production is an interesting idea, need to try that. Perhaps even cut the letters as positive mask, glue them on metal plate, spray paint, remove letter mask, etch, solvent to remove paint, finished.
Vinyl cutters can have many uses in addition to their intended one! That's an interesting idea, cut a positive vinyl mask and use it to make a negative one. Why not just cut a negative mask and use that? I've etched PCBs with vinyl in the past, the vinyl and adhesive don't seem to be affected by ferric chloride, I'm not sure how they would stand up to acid, but a quick google seems to suggest muriatic acid wouldn't harm PVC or acrylic (the adhesive is acrylic based).
Graphic Arts uses a similar process, it's also like developing photos in the dark room and the use of the emulsion sheet is like silk screen preparation.
Yes, I do it that way on larger items where the areas to be etched are small, you can even use just a cotton swab (Q-tip) soaked in electrolyte. It is a slower more manual process though, so often it's quicker to mask off the whole item and just dunk it in a tank. Here's the cotton swab method: ua-cam.com/video/VJOem40ggkI/v-deo.html
I have read that in ECM that is basically the same as electro etching, just without a mask when etching metals containing chromium (like stainless steel) some cancer causing elements will be made. So maybe best to stay clear of them.
Parts from thin brass sheets, yes. See my other videos on EDM machining, the thin stainless parts I made could also be made with electrochemical etching, it would take longer and the deeper/thicker you go the more undercutting of the design there will be.
@@AndysMachines - Thanks. I have been looking for a non chemical/acid way to produce the same type of brass photo-etch parts for plastic model kit detailing parts, and this may be a good alternative worth exploring.
It was actually a small manual hobby-type milling machine that I converted to CNC by adding ballscrews, stepper motors, and a high speed milling spindle. I built it before I started posting on UA-cam, so I don't have any videos on it. If you watch Blondiehacks' channel, it's the same milling machine she has.
Very interesting. Would the toner transfer method work with electro etching? I thought you needed an etching solution for that. I'm thinking of using this method to make a clock dial.
There are plenty of examples on UA-cam of people using the toner-transfer method with acid etching, I seem to recall seeing somebody doing it with electro etching? But like I say I haven't tried it myself, I think it should work, maybe I'll have to give it a try.
Thanks! I believe most of the chlorine reacts with the water to produce hydrochloric acid which stays in solution (very weak solution), but there will still be some acidic vapours and maybe some free chlorine so always best to do anything like this with plenty of ventilation. When I'm not filming I use my welding fume extractor.
This is like "chemical milling." We started performing that process in our Plating Shop before I retired. I don't recall how the Chemists determined how to shrink the pattern cutouts to allow for the undercutting that Chem Milling does, but I suspect that similar methods would be used to determine how to modify your patterns appropriately. Even if you can't find the "shrink ratio" (for lack of a better term) in a book or online, trial & error will work. Of course, the "shrink ratios" will vary for different materials being etched. I _really_ like what you did here and will have to try it myself in my workshop and/or "pole barn" (which has good ventilation) on a future project! ;)
Yes, it's exactly the same process, just with chemical milling /ECM you let it run for longer to remove more material. You can also use specialised electrodes that themselves have masks and channels to flush the electrolyte through to control the shape of the cavities produced and reduce the undercutting issue. I have used chemical milling to make moulds for plastic and rubber parts just using a vinyl mask very similar to what's shown in this video, it's only suitable for certain shapes with limited depth and it can be hard to get the parts out of the mould afterwards due to the rough surface produced by the etching.
If you haven't seen it yet, "Applied Science" has a GREAT video on a diy workflow for Photochemical Machining. I think it is for cutting all the way through, not a surface etch, but worth a look either way.
I'm documenting it further on OSE's wiki, and would love to build the machines sometime!
Yes, I think I did see that at the time, but I'll have to check it out again, thanks.
Just got randomly reccommended your videos and I love them! I dont usually leave comments but your explanations are always sooo clear and your machines are always super interesting!!
Excited for your next video :)
Thanks Andy for explaining all the important variables so clearly.
So happy to see you release another video. Thanks for doing this :) keep them coming!
Nice job. I used to use a wax crayon to fill engraved letter's provided they are deep enough (crayons are specific for engraving) buff after.
Another method was to use engraving paint. To remove excess ink I would wrap a scrap piece of board with paper towel soaked with paraffin wiping the face with the wrapped board flat on the job. Move to a clean spot on the paper and repeat, after two or three wipes the paint will not smear.
Yes, I've seen those wax crayons. I think it's also called dial wax as it was used by clock makers.
As the etched surface is quite rough, paint sticks to it fairly well, but I'll have to get some of those crayons to try out. I've only ever seen black ones but I assume they come in other colours too?
@@AndysMachines yeah. Engravers wax gives some results on UK eBay. Think you'll want the hard type. Not sure what the soft type is used for mind. Rather pricey. Yes does come in a few colours. One stick will last a couple of life times!
The added sounds made me smile.
😁
Showing off all the cool techniques. Very cool!
Nice job ! I use this method for etch knifes
So glad I subscribed to you a few days ago! That's some great content and a good style of Video making!
Excellent demonstration! :-)
Really good !! Thanks for sharing!
It's actually a pretty nice and simple process. :)
Cutting plotter for mask production is an interesting idea, need to try that.
Perhaps even cut the letters as positive mask, glue them on metal plate, spray paint, remove letter mask, etch, solvent to remove paint, finished.
Vinyl cutters can have many uses in addition to their intended one!
That's an interesting idea, cut a positive vinyl mask and use it to make a negative one. Why not just cut a negative mask and use that? I've etched PCBs with vinyl in the past, the vinyl and adhesive don't seem to be affected by ferric chloride, I'm not sure how they would stand up to acid, but a quick google seems to suggest muriatic acid wouldn't harm PVC or acrylic (the adhesive is acrylic based).
Nice machine
imma confusion. issit "my channel 2" or "my channel too"?
Graphic Arts uses a similar process, it's also like developing photos in the dark room and the use of the emulsion sheet is like silk screen preparation.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Wouldn't it be easier to use a sponge soaked in electrolyte to etch? Seems like a lot of work masking off the entire piece
Yes, I do it that way on larger items where the areas to be etched are small, you can even use just a cotton swab (Q-tip) soaked in electrolyte. It is a slower more manual process though, so often it's quicker to mask off the whole item and just dunk it in a tank.
Here's the cotton swab method: ua-cam.com/video/VJOem40ggkI/v-deo.html
I have read that in ECM that is basically the same as electro etching, just without a mask when etching metals containing chromium (like stainless steel) some cancer causing elements will be made. So maybe best to stay clear of them.
👍👍😎👍👍
Do you think this process could be used to etch/machine brass model detailing parts (i.e "photo etch") parts?
Parts from thin brass sheets, yes. See my other videos on EDM machining, the thin stainless parts I made could also be made with electrochemical etching, it would take longer and the deeper/thicker you go the more undercutting of the design there will be.
@@AndysMachines - Thanks. I have been looking for a non chemical/acid way to produce the same type of brass photo-etch parts for plastic model kit detailing parts, and this may be a good alternative worth exploring.
Andy, what CNC machine do you have?
It was actually a small manual hobby-type milling machine that I converted to CNC by adding ballscrews, stepper motors, and a high speed milling spindle. I built it before I started posting on UA-cam, so I don't have any videos on it. If you watch Blondiehacks' channel, it's the same milling machine she has.
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Very interesting. Would the toner transfer method work with electro etching? I thought you needed an etching solution for that. I'm thinking of using this method to make a clock dial.
There are plenty of examples on UA-cam of people using the toner-transfer method with acid etching, I seem to recall seeing somebody doing it with electro etching? But like I say I haven't tried it myself, I think it should work, maybe I'll have to give it a try.
Kinda, I noticed it tends to flake near the edges, thus destroying details. Photoresist film(dry photoresist for PCBs) or vinyl works much better.
I always use pickle juice, because it smells SO good.
Cool
Nice job. Definitely an outdoor job if you use salt as the gas produced will be chlorine ☠️
Thanks! I believe most of the chlorine reacts with the water to produce hydrochloric acid which stays in solution (very weak solution), but there will still be some acidic vapours and maybe some free chlorine so always best to do anything like this with plenty of ventilation. When I'm not filming I use my welding fume extractor.
🥳