The Damage Inside: Rollkur, Hyperflexion, LDR & Behind the Vertical
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
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Description: Video Article of the possible damage from certain training practices and the impact upon the horse. Based on a number of articles and reported research from Volume 10 "Special Double Rollkur Edition" and Volume 47 "Enough is Enough" Horses For LIFE online Magazine. horsesforlife.com For the first time ever, Volume 47 has been made freely available online by the publishers by request. issuu.com/eques...
Many of the other articles are available for free to registered members. More information can be found at horsesforlife.com
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Just like those trying to achieve the "Big Lick" in park class horses, the Rollkur is just as cruel. Dressage is supposed to be about the symmetry of horse and rider, precision between horse and rider built on trust and skill... not force.
When the rider use metal torture tools and put in into the horse's mouth, there is no trust, only pain and fear.
A POWERFUL, POWERFUL piece! Everyone should know the repercussions of training in such a way, especially those who would emulate their idols who practice this both in private and in public. May the February 9th 2010 FEI meeting precipitate a turnaround in this despicable practice. KEEP THE PRESSURE ON!
Oh and.. Really.. It's such a nice video. I can't really explain how much I enjoyed watching it. It's so well made and with such an enthusiasm and lust for making this really understandable and good for others to learn from.
Good job, you got them, chief! :)
To all the misinformed people saying that this is not true because it would be impossible to force a horse's neck to do this, the pressure of the bit causes the horse to try and escape the pain and discomfort. This causes the horse to draw his head in. People tend to think that a bit does not hurt a horse. The truth is that more than one hundred kilograms of force is applied per square centimeter when an average halt pull is applied to the reins.
Thank you for posting this informative video. I hope that the USDF and other organizations take action on this detrimental "training method." It ruins the beauty of dressage for so many who DO ride properly and with concern for their horse.
Anybody who can not see the pain and the sadness in those horses expressions is totally heartless. A horse should look interested calm and relaxed. These beautiful animals look dispirited and blank.
This is what we need - more education, that people may understnad it is more than a philosophical issue, and that despite what the FEI and others tell us, there is already plenty of evidence proving Rollkur is detrimental to a horses' health and wellbeing. Thank you for oding this!
Wow - crazy under the bit! I never knew why going under the bit was such a bad thing - I get it now. Glad I've had people teach me about 'the give'
this is sad. they don't think about their horses anymore. just the first place.
Just the money
Dr Robert Miller used this video in his lectures and seminars. Thank you so much for making it. Please everyone when you see abuse speak up and try to educate people. Such terrible cruelty.
Very powerful piece - every horse rider should watch this regardless of riding discipline. The damage done to the horse & the sadness & pain in their eyes in too unbearable.
I took the bit off my horse about 10 years ago because she was so hard to handle, head shaking, hard to stop and would never stand still, since she has been bitless she is a different horse, happy and relaxed, still as fast but stops at the first command. she has done XC showjumping and Le Trec bitless and always placed, She is a pleasure to ride xxx
Powerful. and very distressing.i pray we can stop this abuse and have sighned many petitions
i wonder when it stopped being about the love of horses for these riders. the more natural the movement of the horse and more evidence of a strong bond between horse and rider, the more beautiful it is to watch.
A skilled rider, by the way, can complete tasks in a dressage ring without a saddle OR bridle. Look it up. There is no need for Rolkuring in any form, no matter how mildly applied.
I agree! Quite honestly if I could have a bitless bridle for the horses at my barn I would but my boss uses Micklem Bridles for some horse. I agree with the fact that their heads should not be like that at all. Allow the horses their head and if the horse is comfortable and relaxed and likes how he is being ridden, he won't be tense and he will drop his head. I have had that happen with a few of the horse's I have ridden because I relaxed my body and allowed him more head.
Powerful video. The day will not come too soon when this poor excuse for "training" is abolished. Those who who use this should be ashamed.
Thank you for your work that you do on behalf of horses, magnificent animals that protection from rollkur and the people that treat them unnaturally.
It's good to see that someone that likes and/or rides dressage is actually aware of this problem and doesn't like to see it :)
I am terrified, human what happened to you? A Horse is your friend and not like a car or a bike whcih you can damage as much as you want, throw it away and buy a new one. Rollkur LDR and stuff is the most freaking worst thing you can ever do to your horse and I can't believe it how people on dressage competitions don't say anything when they see rollkur. They just stand there and do nothing. I just can't believe it, I'm ashamed that these humans are allowed to sit on a horses' back
being ridden correctly on the bit, is beautiful to watch... this... however, really?? there are not enough words to describe the turning in my stomach.
I have not lost my mind, I'm still in possession of my senses, thank you for your concern. I take it that your comment is based on a professional & expert understanding as rider & scholar in the biomechanics of rollkur & what HYPERflexion is. As a mere student working towards my meebw accreditation I DO come across professional dressage riders who understand & abhor the practice you are referring to. Dressage requires evidence of a partnership & engagement ie. flexion NOT hyperflexion.
I don't do dressage myself. I actually recently quit my job at a dressage barn because it saddened me that the horses were forced to be stalled 20-22 hours a day (less if it was raining). My opinions on dressage have actually changed quite a bit. I still am ok with it when the owners actually care about their horses, but many of them bounce from trainer to trainer and are viewed as nothing more than a dressage machine. :(
That's so sad and cruel :( I almost threw up watching that. :'( I can't even imagine being the poor horses who have to endure this :'(
I saw so much Rolkur in the warm-up at the 2012 Olympics as well as in the arena during a test, Anky gets fabulous scores when her horse has it's ears back, it's wringing it's tail and looks totally unhappy and behind the bit, and they ignore it 'cause it's Anky -
@purplejumpergirl That why I try to educate ppl about rolkur as much as I can :)
Glad you've come around and I;m sure your horse i glad too :)
simple miomechanics states that a horse must have an elevated neck and nose in front of the vertical in order to free the shoulders and allow the hindlegs to reach further under. Your horse is moving fine. So long as the neck doesn't get stiff and flat like a board, you should be ok. You always whant a relaxed underneck and a roundish strong upperneck, be it when it's elevated or when you're in forward-down.
How can people do this? I cant understand how someone can look into their eyes and not see the pain they are causing this beautiful animal. I knew nothing about this until today and to know they are doing it at the Olympics makes me sick to my stomich. Made me cry.
im a rider myself and I would NEVER make my horse bend or do ANYTHING like this. They think it looks good to have a horse bend like that, and some people think it's GOOD for them, but it's really not. Bending is one thing, but this is ridiculous
Hi Loveyabella - the reason we are not popping the champagne and dancing in the streets is that this 'resolution' is no resolution at all. LDR, Rollkur and Hyperflexion to date are interchangeable. LDR is what the Rollkurers called Rollkur before it was coined Rollkur by the germans, and Hyperflexion by the FEI. So politically clever, but does nothing for the horse. It's a name game. What remains to be seen are the new definitions, and will THEY make a difference. The upside - it's debated now!
and people who need a bit,always yell back at those who dont need it the truth is (unfortunately uncomfortable truth for those "with the bit on the horse"),that if u have a great control over ur horse, if u 2 totally and absolutely trust and respect each other- u do not need to use a bit. it aint easy and doesnt come over one night-but this is the real shit.to love ur horse that much- that u not only train urself in riding/jumping skills, but also in horsemanship- real friendship with ur horse:)
It's like bitless riding. You have to go into it gradually and give the horse time to learn. Cruelty doesn't make them learn faster, it kills them.
It's not the bit that is the problem, it's the people handling them.
you know...its not just about the damage.. There is NOT one horse on this video that looks HAPPY to be working. My 4 year old arab i just started does collection all on his own with just a Parelli hackamore. and two fingers on the reins.
AND HE IS HAPPY to be ridden and comes to the fence to pick me up and offers me his back to get on... now thats what i call a HAPPY horse.
In all of these pictures you can see the horse's resistance to it: the stiffness in their jaw, the gaping mouth, the ears back, they don't look happy. :(
You're 100% right, people riding bitless always like to hammer everyone else for using bits when they could cause just as much or even more damage if they don't know what they're doing. Bit or bitless it doesn't matter, if you don't learn to ride properly you WILL hurt your horse.
You cannot cause more damage at all unless you're riding with metal as the nosepiece, which unfortunately is sometimes the case in high class jumping, but those aren't considered bitless by most people riding bitless.
Why would you do that to the poor horse? This video puts the point across to people about just how cruel a Rollkur is.
Same here. If you are dedicated enough to have a horse you will spend time with he or she and you will build a strong relationship. Strong enough that you would without hesitation put your life in his hands. Now if that is the case. I think there is no need for nothing more than a loose rope around his neck to help him coordinate where you want to go.
It’s heartbreaking that this is allowed in shows. Shame on the judges.
There are ways to train the horse without it being painful or cruel, but it takes time and hard work.
There is a difference between making a horse go round and this. A horse going round is to have it's back muscles used and lifted. This is taking it to the extreme. The horse doesn't necessarily need to put it's head down this far to get in a nice rounded frame.
if you consider all the german, dutsh, scandinavian riders (showjumping including) as bad riders, then your statement is correct. Otherwise, just a little tip : for dressage, at the olympics this year, not a single horse had never been rollkured in his life. To reckkognize rollkur : hollow back, massive neck/ during an extending trot the movements of the hindlegs and frontlegs don't follow parallel lines / passage and piaffe, you can see the horse's back getting hollow.
Dear God, I cannot even stand to look at this. It is an obscenity. This horrific practice must be stopped!
I ride a horse with just a plain bitless bridle, they are green and rescued horses, and in most cases it doesn't take much from my hands to do anything. it's mostly the turn of the head and a press by a leg and he's going towards the next point
Have you lost your ever loving mind? One of this biggest offenders is competing inthe Olympics right now. Today. Anyone who's competed dressage, who is in the horse world, and has half a brain knows this practice is cruel, ridiculous, and counterproductive to what the heart of dressage is ... complete trust and communication between animal and rider. It is counterproductive to performance as well. They do it because they think this freakish look is "pretty".
I want to echo Christuris and Susannah's well stated comments - we need to educate the mass horse fan base on the dangers of hyperflexion.
Thanks for the video. Rollkur is cruel. Rollkur and flash nosebands should be banned from competition. It is inconceivable that riders are allowed to clamp the horse's mouth shut but not allowed to use bitless bridles in dressage.
I'm not against hyperflexion if it is controlled. If my horse is bucking and rearing getting him in hyperflexion for a couple seconds allows me to take control. Also if your horse needs stretching in the poll a few seconds of hyperflexion now and then in warm up does him good and he will be much more compact and softer in the mouth. Somethimes hyperflexion is really exagerated, the horse should just be a little more closed in than usual for these types of exercises.
I can not figure out why the FEI will not enforce the regulations they have in place to eradicate this entire practice. They have condemed it but have done nothing to the riders using it at shows. Anky continues to place well in competition and all I can think of is what price victory?
Dressage is supposed to show relaxation, balance, and fluidity, not forcing your horse to make artificial movements.
And this is why I refuse to make any horse I'm riding do an outline. My instructor tells me to do them, I don't. I even got marked down on my dressage because I refused to make my pony do an outline. I didn't care.
I don't understand why these people think this kind of abuse is 'beautiful'
I ride my beautiful Arabian mare in a Bitless Bridle when we do dressage. YOU DO NOT NEED A DOUBLE BRIDLE WITH TWO BITS AND A FLASH NOSEBAND! I would rather die than put a bit in ANY of my 6 horses' mouths...you won't find ANY bits on our farm!
Sorry I was being stupid >.< But yes I agree that bitless bridles, even sidepulls can be cruel too.
You can see the pain in their eyes. I've been riding for 17 yrs, this here is unnatural but then again people do things to look "posh" and "elegant" at the horses expense.
In dressage, this is acceptable. It's beautiful and helps the horse concentrate and focus. In jumping however, it is terrible. The horse needs to see the jumps clearly, and use the strength it is using the breath, to get over the jumps. So, depending on your discipline, this is either a pretty practice to help the horse, or a cheat in training jumping horses.
If I were you I would experiment with a loose rope around the neck. The head is still very sensitive and if you were to pull and possibly fall you would still be taking his head with you. Which would cause damage to him. A loose rope would not hurt as much for it is in a hard area that is made up of sheer rib and muscle. So I would recommend a loose rope around their neck.
This strays so far from the principles of classical dressage that it disgusts me that these riders are even allowed in the international ring. The FEI rulebook expressly states that head carriage should be 45 degrees on the vertical or exactly on it, 90. NEVER behind, and yet you see it so often.
I use a flat bit, and a snaffle and I don't have a flash, 3 times a week I don't even use a bridle, (free schooling, lunging and riding in a headcollar)
Keep spreading the message! THIS IS NOT BEAUTY. It's just sad. I've ridden all my horses using bits, and then put them in Hackamores. They are always more relaxed. Less is always more with a horse. Anyone can make a horse do what they want with pain and fear. Teaching a horse to respond to pressure in a different way takes more time and knowledge. Check out Rick Gore's Videos on ridng in a rope halter. Many people are switching.
Was hoping for a lot more information and detail actually showing the areas, etc that are getting damaged as I have no clue about it. There was lot of fluff with the same images being shown over and over again. I would also recommend lengthening out the time the text has as well. There was less than a second for paragraphs. This could be much less than 6 mins to explain what it is. Thanks for sparking my interest though.
I'm no expert, but I always thought that "collection" was when a horse brings it's hindquaters under the body, so that the weight is distributed evenly; the head should be close to vertical and "on" the bit. The point of collection is that the horse is more balanced for the movements required in dressage.
Pulling the nose in like this un-balances the horse, decreacing it's ability to perform, which makes rollkur counter productive as well as extremely cruel. Why would anybody do this?
Many years ago I went to a top Quarter Horse show and was shocked at the unnatural and brutal ways horses were being ridden in the warm up ring in order to comply with the "look de jour" in Western Pleasure. I believe many of those methods are outlawed now and would NOT be accepted in a warm up ring.
The rollkur hits me the same way, with disgust. It makes me no longer interested in following this sport. It is extreme, and brutal.
The jury is out. Rollkur has now been banned. Turn the music off. It may help you see more clearly.
Please explain the difference!
this is so embarrasing for the people who thinks that is so good, because both, human and horse, have to enjoy this activitie, and be healthy,
omg this movie is sow right... the best movie I have ever seen!! luckly there are people who see that this is so wrong... if I was a horse I would never accept this.
i use spurs on my horse. there is a difference if u know how to properly use equipment. i ride reiners now but was classically traqined to rid hunters w a crop and spur. my reiner loves to carry his head low and if i apply a small amount of pressure w my calves he drops his head even lower and w a slight pick up on the reins will tuck his face. heis ridden w a tom balding bob avila pro roller correction bit w curb strap. he will also do his manuevers w just a leadropedraped around his neck
The eyes of this horses, they are so sad.
I agree :) horse shouldn't be tucked in, just head low and long :)
Well made video! It's really professional made, it's all really good set up. And the facts!
Finally a video which really tells what it actually is and does to the horse.
I hope that it will open up eyes for the blinded people who keep trusting the "leading riders".. Or top riders. These we were supposed to look up to. These bastards who teach young kids to be brutal to the horse to make it hit the rang list and get the credits for them. Euw..
THANK YOU!!!!!!!
Thanks for sharing
Oh God, I can't even watch this video. It's so sad. This should be illegal, and hopeful we can someday take care of this.
fantastic video, really powerful xx
P.S. Do not get me wrong, I am not talking about rollkur right now... I am just simply saying, that any bit or non-bit can be dangerous if people don't use them in the right way.
Well yeah obviously if you're applying that much pressure you're doing it wrong, my point is that you can hurt a horse with any kind of bit/bridle if you're riding incorrectly - it's not fair to blame the bit or 'gimmick' as you're putting it as its the rider that's likely at fault not the equipment. And while I agree with you that some ppl go overboard with their martingles/ spurs etc (none of which I use) it's also not fair to say that anyone riding with a bit is mistreating their horse.
ANY bit is cruel. I don't care who's hands it is, we ALL Make mistakes, why subject your horse to that?! Ive started my horse in a bitless bridle, we do trails and jumping and field races and everything, and I've NEVER needed anything more than a sidepull to slow him down, hes also starting to round his back and collect properly on his own
Very good video! Just added to my favourites (;
Plenty of evidence that the FEI turns a blind eye as witnessed by riders schooling and warming up at the 2012 Olympics in Rolkur!
those who want to have pleasure and fun for themselves: dressage, barrel race, all sorts of races at all( anything that's basicly bad for horse's health: tendons, back, hooves, not mentioning inner demages)- will say "u dont know shit! my horse LOVES IT!" and they will continue do it maybe forever, demaging horse after horse... and after dealing with horses 30, 40 years- oh yeah, they do can ride,jump,race but they may have no shitty clue ab the horse themselve...
ANYONE WHO THINKS THIS IS OKAY, GO ROUND WITH UR NECK BENT TOWARDS THE GROUND FOR A WHOLE DAY THEN U WILL KNOW
Yeah I'm aware, i was glad originally that they were apparently so against it, but the fact that the stewards/FEI wont accept even the pictures is a sign that they werent serious...
this has to stop
@G1ngerFox yeah, i agree. My mum has an appaloosa x arab and he puts neck & head right out & low and stretches it out when he`s ridden, and thats just the way he was built and the way he carries himself. a horse does not havce to carry himself in a rounded outline to work propally, but some horses have the natural ability (and breeding) to be capable of doing it easier... and some dont....
by the way...
appaloosas are amazing! :D
My horse does this...but only every now and then. Most of the time he does it as an excuse not to stop...lol. He thinks i am asking him to collect and then when i pull back on the reins for a "whoa" He does that...Sooo, i pull his head back upward and then he stops. lol...he even does it when i ask him to whoa without reins and just my seat....He does it ALOT when he plays in the pasture...I think some horses have better ability to do it than others...not that it should be done, but still.....
I work at a Dressage barn and completely disagree. They're some of the most well-cared-for horses I've ever met and are at their best when they are working.
This is not against dressage as a whole...and you can disagree all you want, but the horses obviously aren't well as shown in the video, and veterinary research actually shows this too. It's like you are saying the grass is purple at your barn when it's actually green, just because you believe it doesn't make it true.
That was a brillaint video,,I only found out recentley what rollkur is and i`am shocked at why this isn`t banned,,I have never been a fan at seeing horses in professonal `outlines` as i feel it isn`t naturally
Worse is, the people who spread the use of Rollkur are STILL competing, owning horses, and training them. They should ALL be in jail, no excuses. When they come out, they should have papers saying they can't own or be near animals. Then maybe less people would train like this and more horses would be ridden properly, not this leg-throwing bs that is still going on.
Put those riders in the human equivalent and let them feel the pain. You can clearly see the pain in those poor horses eyes. Those people are just egomaniacs!
Stop this it is disgusting...so cruel, these people are suppose to be in the sport for the love of horses!!!
this video in German and I would be very happy
i started to cry cause the horses were, and still are, being "abused" like this..i have a very soft heart when it comes to the horses. i think that this should be banned from the face of the Earth...but thats my opinnion. everytime i see this happening at shows, i wanna set the horse free, away from their abusers....running free in the wild.
I can't take this anymore..
This is all i have to say: THIS AINT BEAUTIFUL U NUMBSKULLS! THIS IS TORTURE!!!!
if you think i this is beautiful, get a life!
No bit is cruel. It's the hands that are at the end of the reins that are cruel.
I respect your choice though.
At 2:54 this video claims "The horse behind the vertical cannot see where he is going. Blind he is helpless."
This is a massive mistake and obviously there is a basic lack of understanding how the horses sight actually works. The horse has 350 degree monocular vision with a blind spot in front and back. The horse cannot see the area 3m in front of his feet.
This discredits the entire video if the author doesn't even understand how the horse's vision works!!!!!!!!!!
to make their necks look round and give the forelegs flashy movements (if you get the nose back, you overload the forelegs and so they have to exagerate the movement in order to keep from tripping and falling). People don't even know what working hindquarters are anymore! all they see is necks and forelegs and hair ponpons!
I almost cried. This horrible. I think that people that used things like the Rollkur should be banned from any type of equestrian compotions.
Officially it is.
I disagree, I have been a spectator at the olympic dressage and neither in the ring nor in the warm-up ring have I seen a single competitor overbend their horses at the poll - these riders are world class and they ALL know about the painful consequences of the practise - I think you will find the horses are either on the bit or slightly in front of the bit but never behind :o)
I agree, but also a bitless bridle in wrong hands can cause even more severe traumas. A strong pulling from the rains with a normal bit usually ends with a cut or a sore(of course, this is not normal), but a strong pull from a bitless bridle could break the horse's jaw. So what do you suggest is the best option? Should we stop riding?
That's not true at all. There was no actual case of this happening, because it is not possible, only maybe if the "bitless" bridle is made out of metal with levarage (like in mechanical hackamores). With a regular bitless bridle, a side pull, a hackamore/bosal or a rope halter, none of us is physically strong enough to break a horse's jaw. They don't break their jaws falling on their faces from jumps during cross country or show jumping competition, there is no way our arms can be stronger than the horse's entire body weight. I don't know where this lie came from, but the more I hear it the more it sounds like someone really uneducated spread it, and other people who are uneducated believe it. The worst things that can happen with a properly fitted bitless option, even if you pull with all your force, is the horse getting irritated by constant, meaningless nagging, or the fur rubbed off... Meanwhile, with a bit, most horses have what you described even with light touch over the years. What else happens are color loss on the lips because of constant trauma on the skin, bruises, bleeding because the horse bit its cheek by trying to avoid the bit, bone growth on the gums, headache, tootache, bluing tongue due to lack of air, tongue cut off, permanent nerve damage resulting in loss of sense around the mouth (this doesn't need you to ride your horse with Rollkur at all, just the regular "contact"), other bleeding in mouth, tooth damage from the bit that most people like to set really far back etc. I don't think we really need to compare.
@XoxCrimsonLovexoX He may be trying to avoid work, but I'm no expert. My friend rode a Saddlebred Mare once who used to event and do Fox Hunts, and she was chewing on the bit and putting her chin to her chest for the whole time she was being worked. Even while they were standing still, she was tucking her head in and "framing up" as my friend called it. My trainer afterwards told her that she was doing it to avoid work, as she was out of shape and hadn't been ridden for quite some time.
That's a belief that has been around for long but is actually due the the horse being in pain from the bit. This has been tested before. Horses always let us know when they are in pain but people like to make up excuses like "not being worked for a while"