REACTION REDUX! | Doctor Who: The Movie
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- What could have been... on Doctor Who: The Movie!
Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro
11:03 - Reaction: Welcome to The 90s!
32:49 - Discussion
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The "Paul McGann doesn't count" line is from Queer as Folk, 1999, where one of the main characters is a massive Doctor Who fan. It was written by some bloke called Russell T Davies - I wonder what happened to him.
think he did that show with olly alexander a while ago
Must re watch that again soon
@@resiseven7407 I'm very surprised that Olly Alexander hasn't appeared in Who yet, given that RTD is back.
He got too american that's what's happened to him.
@@joshuajoshua2732 That whooshing sound above you was the joke.
(And, in terms of your ridiculous answer to a question that wasn't asked, no he didn't.)
Ah yes, “Steven Spielberg’s Doctor who” as it was known during production, despite the fact that Spielberg left the project incredibly early.
The original plan for this reboot before rewrites was for the Doctor and master (who were brothers, this draft of the script is where the “Doctor is half Human thing” came from and it stick through the rewrites) to leave Gallifrey (retconning the series so the 8th Doctor was the first to leave somehow) with their grandfather borusa. They then all fight a Dalek reboot, where instead of robots they were basically giant spiders with armour.
Imagine that call "hey doctor its the daleks on skaro yes the planet you blew up in the 80s so we put the master on trail and killed him he wants you to pick up his remains we cool you ok see you soon the daleks"
The reason the Daleks put The Master on trial is because he was accused of betraying them. (Specifically, the whole thing with the Draconians, I think.)
In the expanded universe its retcon that the reason The Master was executed on Skaro was because the Timelords gave him up to the Daleks to both answer for his crimes against them and as peace offering to prevent the time war from happening, as tensions were running high between the species at this point.
Also speaking of that Master he was played by Gordon Tipple and was suppose to have a few more scenes originally but they were ultimately cut from the final version.
the show you're referring to with the "Paul McGann doesn't count" conversation was Queer as Folk written by Russell T Davies!
35:00 - the BBC had two stations. There were 4 stations in the UK at the time (not including satellite and cable). The other two were ITV and Channel 4, which were completely independent of the BBC and were structurally different, especially ITV which until the early 2000s was a federal network of 15 companies each holding a franchise to broadcast to one region each of the UK and who made and exchanged programmes on a bartering basis.
If you were in Mildenhall in the early 60s, Richard, you may remember Anglia Television whose logo was a silver model of a knight in shining armour on horseback and whose jingle was a blast of Handel’s Water Music. They were the regional ITV station for the East of England and most of the East Midlands.
Sticky: Yes! I *do* remember the Water Music intro! ~Dad
@@richardlemin7840 It’s there at 6:05 in this video of Anglia TV’s launch!
ua-cam.com/video/8eFw39C3ZTs/v-deo.htmlsi=Oinje6pWSrtRpZsl
Also: the thing with Skaro surviving revelation of the daleks: the exact wording was the planet was “Ravaged”. So some fans have interpreted it as the planet surviving its sun going supernova, it’s just even more irradiated and devoid of life now. In fact that’s a pretty decent explanation for why Skaro becomes a red planet in the TV movie and new series.
However 2 other explanations exist. 1 was from one of the 90s spin off books at the time that claims that the Skaro that the doctor destroyed was actually a fake Skaro and the daleks tricked the doctor (something i really don’t like, but it’s what the fan wikis and google usually tells you). And another was proposed in the magicians apprentice: that Skaro was entirely rebuilt by the daleks somehow. Although this is seemingly contradicted in the same episode when the Daleks are defeated by the sludge of dead daleks from past wars flooding the city, implying that the planet is still the same one, but IDK
(As for the daleks holding the trial: of the master: it makes sense to me, the Daleks and Master have been enemies ever since the Delgado master double crossed them in “Frontier in space”)
That amazing TARDIS interior set sadly burned down before it could be used for anything else if I'm not mistaken.
The console survived apparently
i somehow didn't know this, that's tragic
It was also shown in some countries for a limited time in cinemas/movie theaters,
What's the difference between theatre and theater?
Whether you use the spelling theatre or theater will depend on where you hail from. In American English, the spelling is theater; in Britain and the rest of the English-speaking world, theatre is used.
Barrie: I’ve always heard that “theatre” is the production and “theater” was the building. ~Dad
Paul McGann is commonly considered the George Lazenby of the Doctors as Lazenby only did one Bond movie.
It's supposed to be a Whoniverse now but the BBC is still reluctant to have alternate Doctors running concurrently or even other Time Lords.
It’s honestly a shame Paul McGann’s 8th Doctor only got one television appearance. I know there’s the big finish audio dramas etc but I wish we could have seen more of his doctor. In my head after the tv movie I don’t jump right into the new series, I immediately jump right into the 8th doctor audio drama.
Technically two TV appearances but yeah, 8 deserved more love.
he doesn't get much characterisation in the movie (because he spends the first act as sylvester mccoy and the second with amnesia - no clue who's choice that was) which makes him more or less a blank canvas for expanded media, which is really interesting to see. i like his character in a lot of the EDA novels, he's a lot lighter and more youthful than much of the BF stuff where he's all gothic and mysterious. both are nice though!
@@Connor-ONeill4. It was repeated on Doctor Who Night in 1999 and ISTR Sci-Fi channel repeating it around 2003/2004.
You should look up the treatment for what the 8th doctor american series was going to be. Just a few points.
The doctor and the master where going to be brothers and rassilon was their farther
The daleks where going the be humanoid aliens with spider legs
The cybermen where going to be space cyborg pirates called cys
They'd ditched that before they started the script for this, though.
It would also have done new versions of existing stories.
Paraphrasing Al Murray, if Americans can't explain things it's aliens, they would be right for once.
It’s so funny to see Will Sasso,of MAD TV, in this movie as the morgue attendant.
The show your referring too is a show called "Queer as Folk" which was also created by Russell T. Davies before he was involved with Dr. Who but was a long time fan of the show and added in references to Dr. Who the 8th Doctor doesn't count was kind of a joke as McGann wasn't considered as the most memorable Doctor at the time.
''I always drez for the occasion.''
So camp.
and then the 8th Doctor also came back for Jodie and Chibnall's Power of the Doctor
from what i've read, there was an 'important' episode of Roseanne on a competing channel at the same time, so it didnt really stand a chance, if they had been on at different times, it may have gone very differently
the era of being subject to timed TV schedules had a lot to answer for. It's important to reasonable organising of life to have progressed some way beyond it.
It was sweeps month, which determined advertising rates back then, it got 5.5m viewers, joint 75th for the week. Share was 9, lower than the slot average of 11 and the 15 that the producer felt Fox would need to consider a series (this was commissioned as a one-off movie, not a pilot). The Roseanne episode, Heart and Soul, got 21m viewers on ABC.
Fox also had a series they wholly owned, Sliders, whereas this was a Universal/BBC co-production they had only paid for the broadcasting rights for.
But's not really true to say that Fox was a channel the no-one watched back then. It had The X-Files and the first Doctor Who trailers went out during the episode "Jose Chung's From Outer Space", which got 16m viewers.
An expanded media detail about this story I really like is the fact that the Dalek Time Controller (at this point posing as "The Dalek Litigator") was sunmoned from his time collaborating with the new Dalek Paradigm (a faction he would later grow tired of due to their failures, and abandon) to oversee the Master's trial on Skaro. He would later find out about the Master's survival (and resurrection from the end of this film. It's complicated.) And it annoys him so much that he takes over command of a time war era dalek ship, much to the protest of the incumbent Supreme, to track the master down and personally exterminate him. After this ship is destroyed by the Master, he escapes to an erlier point in the Dalek timeline. Here, the Controller would later encounter the 6th Dr, who inadvertently taught him to think ouside normal dalek pentameters (something he was already occasionally doing due to his time sensitivity) which would eventually lead to his growing ambition almost erasing the timelords from history ("genesis" style), which was a massive step towards the timewar. Now no longer a part of the primary timeline, because shenanigans with 8, he gets disowned by the Dalek Empire. He finds this quite aggravating and decides that he's the only being competent enough to live. He ends up creating an army of Time Stategists, before eventually becoming the God-like entity "the Eminence", which his past self had previously destroyed as per request by 8. The last remaining Time Strategist, after they were destroyed by order of the Emperor Dalek, was reconditioned and would eventually be 2nd in command of the Dalek race and be the leader of ALL dalek operations during the Timewar.
All of this, because the timelords decided to give the Master as a temporary peace offering to the Daleks at the beginning of this film...
It's Vancouver, B.C. Canada as San Francisco. When I took a trip out to V' in 2006, I visited several locations.
The mavity of the situation
😊
I believe in some of the novels it’s mentioned that the master had betrayed an alliance with the daleks, and the time lords agreed to allow them to execute him as part of the negotiations to prevent the time war.
I was 5 when this came out so it was my first experience with the doctor and I’ve loved it since also as a Brit I did grow up watching the original quantum leap it was mine and my mum’s favourite show
Before Duel Steven Speilberg did at least one episode of Columbo.
I am so ready to see your dad react to modern who, bring on next week
42:57 Probably worth pointing out that Jonathan Pryce played the Master in 1999's Curse of Fatal Death.
Also on the whole half-human discussion: While the show has ignored that - the expanded universe has addressed it in different ways:
I believe some Eighth Doctor stuff suggests that the Doctor's use of time travel has resulted in his own history being in flux and changing. So the Doctor wasn't half-human, then he was, then he wasn't.
Meanwhile a Tenth Doctor comic suggests the Doctor used a broken Chameleon Arch to temporarily turn himself half-human... for reasons? That being said, while the comic is a Tenth Doctor comic - it shows this during a flashback to the Eighth Doctor while he is fighting in the Time War - and of course Name/Night/Day of the Doctor reveal the the Eighth Doctor didn't fight in the Time War... So take that as you will I guess.
The weirdness of US TV's fragmentariness and not getting every investment in a show repaid with promotion. It even let a case happen, so I learned from online TV nostalgia, of a US made show that flopped there but was a success in several other countries. It was very popular in Britain for several years of reruns, I remember that as a kid.
This was a kids' show called The Red Hand Gang, made 1977, thar had multi-episode stories the same way as DW but only ran for 3 stories, 12 eps. Like if early DW had got cancelled after The Edge of Destruction.
It was about a gang of 5 kids, in a coastal urban setting, who would notice signs of folks in trouble and get into solving the mystery, self-appointed detectives. It had the merit that it was interracial, and I have never seen that it got any resistance from US TV for that. But it might raise an eyebrow, that the black boy and the token girl both always wore shorts, while the 3 white boys always wore long jeans.
Yeah, BBC Television just weren't willing to fund it at this point. BBC Worldwide were trying to find collaborations like this throughout the 1990s, but this movie was the only thing which came of it. By 2001, they'd given up and allowed BBC Interactive to start doing animated webcasts, including one with Richard E Grant as the Doctor in 2003, which ended up being overshadowed by the announcement of the revival at BBC Wales.
For the record, this tv movie got very high ratings in the U.K. but very poor ratings in the U.S. but it wasn't so much that nobody was watching Fox. In 1996 Fox had already had the NFL rights for two years and had a number of hit shows on the air like Married With Children, The Simpsons, The X-Files, America's Most Wanted, Martin, Beverly Hills 90210, Melrose Place and more, so it was being reasonably well watched. Doctor Who however, was (inexplicably ) put on during May Sweeps opposite some of the other networks biggest guns. It aired directly against the series finale of Roseanne, for instance, which won the time slot easily. As for why the BBC didn't continue with a new series just in the U.K. immediately, they couldn't under the terms of the contract they had signed with producer Phillip Seagal. That contract stipulated the show had to air jointly in both the U.K. and America. It wasn't until the terms of the contract expired that the BBC could make another attempt at relaunching.
Paul McGann was and is great and there is a lot to enjoy here. There's also stuff that doesn't make any sense whatsoever like, Why would the Time Lords design the Eye of Harmony so it could only be opened by Human Eyes? If all of the Doctor's stuff was stolen from the hospital, where did he get those jelly babies? Why would the morgue attendant get a full period set of vintage clothes (which the Doctor stole) for a relatively unsophisticated costume party? How does Grace know how to hotwire a time machine? Why would the Daleks (Not really known for being big on fair play) have a trial for the Master instead of just exterminating him? Why would the Daleks give a crap about honoring the Master's final request? etc, etc. If you don't think about it too much though, it's a fun ride.
Here we go then, on the 2nd and last episode to debut outside the UK (The other being The Five Doctors). Pertwee actually died between the US and UK airings, so our airing was dedicated to him.
This movie, like a lot of American TV of the time, was shot on 35mm film, which means theoretically we could get a 4K remaster, if they can get the original film from Fox. The 2016 Blu-Ray is sadly just an upscale of the DVD.
I rewatched this last night. Not awful, but great. Not sure how the whole half-human thing is meant to work now with the Timeless Child. Or really what the point was to begin with.
On the "cancelled almost immediately" thing, Tennant has said he was reluctant at first, because at the time he shot his first scene, they didn't know if they were gonna get a 2nd series. So he ran the risk of being the 10th Doctor for 10 seconds and nothing more.
This is one of the few episodes of Classic Who I've seen on TV. I first saw it on a repeat in the 2010s on Watch, which is a channel here that mostly shows old American dramas. So I guess an appropriate way to watch the American episode of Doctor Who.
The writer of this movie is Matthew Jacobs, son of Anthony Jacobs, who played Doc Holliday all the way back in The Gunfighters.
I believe they used the Master because the BBC owned him outright, instead of having to license the Daleks or Cybermen. Although I assume they still needed the soon-to-be-dead Terry Nation's permission for the Dalek cameo.
On the attachment to Earth, Big Finish, for the 50th anniversary, did a story called "The Beginning", which is the Doctor and Susan's first trip in their stolen time machine, and it takes them to Earth's moon. So I guess it cements an early love for the planet, as it's his first alien world.
I saw this when it was first broadcast on Fox, and I enjoyed it a lot. I still enjoy it, and I watch it every New Year's, along with "Blackadder Back and Forth". And while McGann has only made two appearances on the main series since 2005, he's done loads of audio stories, and they even brought back Eric Roberts for them. But I'm still ticked that, beyond a couple of appearances in the "Doctor Who Magazine" comic strip, rights issues with Universal have prevented Grace from returning.
Of all the new changes you can do to classic episodes and re-releases, I'm suprised they haven't redone the Dalek voices with Nick Briggs at this point. Copyright issues maybe?
2:45 - the reason why it didn’t do well in the US is because it was scheduled opposite the final episode of S8 of Roseanne.
the 'original' narration at the beginning was by the master, so quite different, its on youtube somewhere, for some reason they changed it ..and the paul mgcann narration had an error saying 12 lives, not 13 so it had to be edited 😉
did you notice in 'survival' .. the masters belt had a snake buckle?....😉
They changed the WHO AM I scene?!?!?!?!?!
Shame you both never reacted to the rejected first recording of "An Unearthly Child". It 's been broadcast/ released in several versions, including the complete raw footage and one that edits the flubs.
Could be a nice tribute to William Russell?
1. Remove the Dalek voices and mention of Skaro - That was pure fanbait that had no basis being in the story!
2. Take that mention of San Francisco Christmas 2000 and have the start of the movie BE Sylvester and Anthony in a James Bond style opening scene together stopping the world from ending because one of The Master's plans has got away from him again!
3. Have The Doctor decide on his own to take The Master's body back to Gallifrey but The Tardis plays up and they remain in San Fran but have gone back one year.
4. Have Chang Lee be a more sympathetic character - The actor isn't the problem, it's the writing.
5. Have The Doctor violently regenerate a la Nu-Who in the Ambulance causing a crash that kills the driver and remove all the hospital baggage which bogs down the film.
6. Lose the ridulous half-human ret-con!
7. Eric Roberts doesn't need to be the ambulance driver, he could be a beat cop who investigates the open Tardis {the door didn't close properly behind The Doctor}.
8. Re-cast Grace with a younger actress and have her be the EMT in the Ambulance rather than a surgeon.
9. Grace and Chang-Lee pull Paul McGann out of the wreckage of the ambulance and we go from there.
37:03 I was confused until I realised you meant cinemas and not live theatre.
I wish the characters from this film weren’t in rights problems, I’d like to see Grace and Chang Lee in the main show.
You need to watch night of the doctor before the new series
With you now moving onto the 2005 series I hope you do the spin offs as well. Given you both have now watched Sarah Jane in classic who I think The Sarah Jane Adventures would be good to do with the added context.
This played on the Fox network because Fox was the only US tv network interested and did not pick up a series because the movie ratings was not good enough for a series
The TV Movie is considered the "bridge" between Classic Who and NuWho not actually part of Classic Who.
So moving onto from proper Dr. Who to soap opera Dr. Who next week.
I've always felt the TV movie is the bridging episode between the classic and the new Who episodes. It has elements of both.
I think Donald Sutherland was considered for the Eighth Doctor?
The costume should have been Doc Halliday's
The Master is somehow a Goa'uld... got it. Whatever, let's just get through this.
I don’t tend to think of this as being part of classic WHO - more of a curious stop gap between the classic and the new show. It has a lot going for it. Paul McGann is great, the Tardis looks magnificent, the wonderfully hammy Eric Roberts Master. But the story is lacking, the amnesia plot wastes a lot of time, the half human thing is nonsense ( and never mentioned again ), and the ending with the Doctor restoring Grace and Chang Lee seems a bit of a cop out. Would have been interesting had it gone to a full series but as it stands, a curio of the 90s and ultimately a misstep. The hype at the time was HUGE. I still have the souvenir magazine issued at the time.
why were the daleks 'in charge' of the trial of the master? .. **spoilers** ...
it was a 'ruse' between the master and the daleks to lure the doctor to be alone with his remains so he could then take the doctors body over...the book 'the eight doctors' explains it😉
( 1:56 ) I thought you used BritBox?
BritBox on Amazon
Silly question but when the time comes will you show your dad torchwood and sja?
We need to see Alex watch Day One and Cyberwoman with his dad.
Because, deep down, we are very bad people.
@@mattymcmatty ohh forgot about day one. I do think tho his dad would like children of earth tho
@@mattymcmattyChildren of Earth
Just curious are yall going into the 05 reboot next
Yep. Next Monday we start Modern Who.
@edgarcarter4712 It's not a reboot it's a revival a continuation.
How soon did modern Who take off in the US?
It was on SyFy a year late for a while and then BBC America made a big deal of it starting with Matt Smith. Ratings were roughly the same on both channels, I think, about 1m viewers, but the US publicity was better on BBC America. Its media profile definitely went up. Record viewing figures around the 50th were roughly 2.5m. Although it's harder to get US figures over longer periods of time and to account for repeat showings (or people buying on iTunes et al rather than pay for BB America, which isn't even on basic cable). Always been niche, though.
I just looked up the TV movie ratings and they were 5.5m but it's a fair guess that it didn't have as much of an impact on them as the revived series did on its smaller viewership.
Peak viewers, overall, were probably on PBS in the 80s - but each station had its own schedules for those.
@@mattymcmatty Thanks very much for the info.
Why have you skipped Dimensions In Time?
Ed - it was the 30th Aniversary, shown on BBC Children In Need 1993. It is available on UA-cam.
They reacted to it 4 years ago. It's number 25 in the playlist.
It's not canon and I don't care what RTD says.
I think the mistake with the TV Movie is if your going to introduce it to a new american audience maybe giving the lore too soon was the thing who never heard of regeneration, the Master or the Daleks i can understand it would alienate alot of the american audiences perhaps if if they went the same way as RTD did when he started the 2005 series and not explain the past too soon this could had hit off as a series but it is what it is.
One thing you should learn about Doctor Who.. nobody in production , writing, or creation uses or likes the word " Canon" . The show does NOT have an official " show bible" and is careful never to call things, such as comics, audio dramas , etc, canon or not canon. It's all just stories
You need to stop tapping the table or get the mike off it or get a firmer table. The thudding noise can grate a bit. Sorry to carp.
The best thing about this movie is Paul McGann and the inside of his TARDIS but the story was garbage it was too american the half human thing was crap and the first kiss of the companion which was very controversial at the time.
Eric Roberts was a very campy Master.
The only redeeming element of this awful attempt at Dr Who is that it opened the door for the reboot.