Destiny 2 Lore - The Secret of the Black Garden! What was this doing in Taranis's Lair?
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- Опубліковано 15 січ 2024
- Destiny 2's Lore and Story in the Season of the Wish has hit a strange point. We've completed the last of the interactions with the Wish Keeper Exotic Bow's quest. This has led us to a secret in the heart of Taranis's lair. An Ishtar Collective Logo made of Vex parts. Why was this found in the Black Garden? What is its significance? Today I dive into it and try to find out.
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It's so crazy that there was no dialog at the end of the mission. It SEEMS so important for SOMEONE to talk about it. But we're just met with silence.
I mean it's just our character who goes there. We aren't being guided by anyone else and we haven't got anyone scouting ahead like crow or anyone on comms support like Osiris. We're the only ones to see it, and the player character certainly isn't smart enough to figure it out. The whole point of this is clearly just the reveal of the Ishtar symbol, which we'll have to discover the meaning of as more is revealed to us. It also wouldn't make any sense if another character could explain what's going on straight away either. This is brand new information to everyone. They should be as clueless as us, no one else has seen this before. If there was dialogue there, it would just be talking about how crazy or strange it is and how they don't know what it is yet. It would all be a bunch of untested and unproven theories if they did say anything about it. And they wouldn't have much to base it off either.
It probably is a hint for Episode 1 of Final Shape
@@seb5542 Most of what you said I agree with except the "the player character certainly isn't smart enough to figure it out" We were the ones that figured out the 15 wish was made by Savathun as we found the pattern on her wing and showed it to Ikora and Osiris. Not trying to get into a lore war just saying.
It doesn’t seem too crazy when you take everything Bungie has failed to do in the last decade into consideration.
@@happystate2480 It was Eris actually just saying
I feel like there is so much story potential for the Vex as the new big bad guys post Witness. There is some delightful psychological horror the deeper you go into the lore, and I'd love to see more of that used moving forward. Monster horror worked really well for the Hive, and psychological horror could be amazing for the Vex.
I mean, imagine being trapped like Cayde by the Vex during the Red War.
Aesop, sovereign mind for next big bad 2025 (read Swarmers lore)
I feel like part of the problem with the Vex is that they're too vague and 'unemotional' to be a traditionally compelling villain, and their endgame is too similar to the Witness's, IE a kind of final shape where everything is vex everywhere just doing vex calculations forever. Maybe I've got that wrong, but the whole 'convert the substance and state of the universe to our single static vision' is pretty similar to Unibrow's.
The Vex, as designed, require constant narration by our ally characters explaining what the hell is going on with them since they don't really speak for themselves, and creating speaking, humanized Vex kind of ruins what makes them mysterious and aloof. The Vex and their technology would be a fun way to introduce a new, non-Vex villain however. I'm just hoping they don't do the lazy Borg Queen kind of thing that sort of ruined the whole point of the Borg.
@@atomic_wait thats the interesting thing. your point is 100% true, which is why bungie seems to be moving away from those unthinking calculations and more towards "deal with the devil" type robots (i know i already mentioned it in this thread, but Aesop from The Swarmers warlock lore is a great example of this). With this teaser in the garden, they may go further in depth with the different vex collectives as well as what they see as the best course of action for survival.
leak says they are.
Spinfoil hat: If the Istar clones were in the vex network to create an advantage for humanity, them looking over Taranis's Lair may indicate they had a hand in the Ahamkara returning. Since the Witness/Vex want to remove all entropy in the universe, it would make sense to reintroduce elements of uncontrollable chaos to reality. Perhaps it would slow down the Witness's plan.
Honestly, I think it's just an easter egg saying that the clones or Ishtar will be making an appearance in the Vex themed episode after Final Shape.
That's the same thing I said. I mean why else would the Ishtar logo just be sitting there with no dialog. That let's me know there's bigger things going on. The final shape may answer this for us
"Echoes" as a title could refer to those copies.... As we originally would have been playing that episode soon, it could "just" be a teaser for the next story chapter after the final shape campain
Yeah, that was one of the first things that came to mind. Echoes seems to have multiple meanings, as it could also be referring to the aftermath of the final (?) battle with the witness
Back when he was exploring the Infinite Forest, didn't Osiris use vex-tech based copies of himself called "echoes"? I feel like this adds credence to the idea that the episode "Echoes" will be about copies of someone/thing.
oooooh i forgot abt that good shout!!@@TheDragonman55
What struck me as really odd is that the area this is in does not look much like The Garden. It is usually with some organic matter, no matter where you look. But this really reminds me of the Pyramidion, with hoe well kept it is and how the architechture is done
the Pyramidion was my first thought as well.
the friend I played it with also confirmed that he had the feeling, but didn't think it was as important. Maybe it's not, I hope it is
I THOUGHT IT WAS SUPER WEIRD TOO! that room has typical vex architecture
But the Sol Divisive their whole thing is keeping organic. There hasn't been a single place without plants seen in the garden so what gives?
even weirder, when you look at the portal before going in, it shows the typical Vex structure, not something you would expect from the black garden. SO either the Ishtar collective wanted to keep it maintained, or that is not the garden
Yea 300-400 seconds of silence lol i also thought that was odd … prob broken
I've noticed a lot of narrative set ups for the episodes after Final Shape. This helps set up the Echoes episode, the stuff with the Fanatic and the scorn sets up the Revenant episode and last season helped set up the Heresy episode which definitely will be dealing with Xivu Arath.
Since it was a portal, assuming that the logo of the Ishtar Collective is in the black garden may not be what's actually happening here. It could be anywhere like the pyramidion.
Something I noticed in the recent lore is the Black Garden is described as a place of Dark AND Light. Even Riven in the Constellation: Wish dialogue describes the eggs as "children of Light and Dark in many ways".
Specifically, the lore describes Light and Dark "giving off new buds together", as if saying Light and Darkness together are responsible for the life that grows within the Garden.
I do not believe we've ever seen the Garden described as a place of Light, before. It's always had a strong association with Darkness on account of the Black Heart and the Vex presence. But if Light is also intrinsic to the Black Garden's existence, then that's a big deal.
i wonder if it has any correlation to the singularity the awoken were in/distributary
Back in shadowkeep, it stated that the black garden is exempt from time and space and that both light and dark used to coexist
It's just that we haven't seen anything related to Light as far as I know. If there was a Black Heart associated to the Darkness, there should be a White Heart or some kind of connection to the Traveller that we just haven't found yet. Those episodes after TFS will be very entertaining
@@juanjodpr I think you're forgetting the black heart was a failed attempt at making a 2nd veil, and the veil itself is light and dark physically manifested. It is neither evil, nor good, not dark nor light. It works off of the darkness by using your will and mind to shape itself, but also is powered by the light, which is more tangible to life itself. The veil is essentially a guardian without mind, without will. It wields and morphs the world around it with the darkness, and it embraces the world around it, with the light.
The Black Garden is connected to the story of creation involving the Gardener and the Winnower, the beings that would create the Light and Darkness respectively, as well as their ideologies, so while it hasn't been touched on much, there is a connection between the Light and the Black Garden, although I think that connection has weakened over the course of Destiny's timeline
In Destiny, it seems more and more that our guardian is more of an archeologist than a legend. Lore after lore speak about these previous people/guardians who had already discovered what we are discovering. We’ve spent years trailing behind true legends lol
Couldn't agree more, the lore card ending to the season of the witch when we put Savathun in her place is one of the rare times I felt legendary
we're still a legend in the sense we get shit done. you got a big bad you need to die? send The Guardian
@@MrTavrosNitram so we are in a sense just a gun or plot device , something the real characters weild to get things done , fantastic , in most games the world revolves around the player, in Destiny the player revolves around the world
I mean not really. We've killed gods and beings more powerful than anything anyone has ever faced. We are literally the most powerful guardian that has ever existed. But the lore serves to give context to events in the past or present and not for us.
Yeah but the difference is we’re actually solving the problems they found. “Oh no the Vault of Glass is super dangerous and full of mystery, no ones come out alive” lol too bad I’ve already cleared it out
"I wish I had the power to understand and control the vex"-IC
"are you sure about that?!" Taranis
In the lore around Neomuna, there is lore of a Vex mind called Aesop the Sovereign. They wanted to be the King of Neomuna, but the people of Neomuna refused his offer. Aesop then deleted all the children in the Cloud Ark.
I've always liked how anonymous and decentralized the Vex are. They're wholly alien and the fact that they've never spoken to us makes it so much more terrifying. Thanks in large part to your lore deep dives, I consider the Vex to be the single greatest threat facing the Destiny Universe (after the Witness.)
I'd like to submit that that secret space is NOT in the Black Garden.
That's a Pyramidion. That's for sure Pyramidion architecture.
The last two years, we’d seen two factions from each race, except the Vex, diverge to form on either side of the war: those against the Witness, and those that submitted to it. For the Cabal, there’s Caital and Calus. The Elksni, Mithraks and Eramis. None of the Hive and Vex care to join us against the Witness. But, we could see a leader of the Vex, and those that may wish to ally with us emerge. The lore has eluded that there could be more copies of Maya Sundaresh among the Vex network. Who’s to say she doesn’t have enough antonymy to take control of the Vex? Then there is the Ishtar Collective, we could see them ally with us, with the aid of Elizabeth, Mithraks, Osiris, and Quinn, to mediate for the Ishtar copies. Perhaps they may be inspired by Asher’s sacrifice, and may wish to aid us against future threats? Time will tell.
Savathun vs Xivu Arath, even if it wasn't directly drawn as Savathun on our side, we'd be death without her.
Asher is still alive in the Vex network he shows up in the vexcaliber mission and as a blue eyed Vex multiple times in other places.
The only Vex aligned with the Witness has been the Sol Divisive. The rest of the Vex have *always* been unaligned, and they’ve even been known to briefly ally with us when our interests align. Very briefly. Like “single mission where we clear out some Taken for them” briefly.
The problem is the Vex way of being is so alien there really isn’t an analogue to Mithrax, Caiatl, or even Savathun. No one to negotiate with. But it can be assumed the main Vex Collective are just as invested in preventing the Final Shape as us: they’re just powerless to do anything.
@@happystate2480it's implied Asher is dead unfortunately
@@RuiNDieM1988 Physically, yes. But his consciousness is still very much alive in the Vex network.
I think the vex are gonna develop individualism in the same way the Borg did, and now develop personalities, and a hierarchy system for their species.
I for one am so excited to see the vex getting more attention moving forward. Theybare my favorite faction in destiny and I couldnt br happier. Inalso LOVE the story aspects of the fireteam lost deep in the vex collective i find that very intresting and captivating.
Seeing the D1 gameplay makes me remember that I really REALLY miss Venus as a playspace!
I feel like they are going to make one or all copies of Maya the main villain in the future who has somehow figured out how to control the vex. We already found out in lightfall that Maya has no issues crossing ethical boundaries. So I feel like one or many copies of her that has been stuck in the vex network will probably cross the line in the future. Vex as villians have always had a problem since they don't really have a personality. Maya might add that personality in some way.
Gods I hope not. We've already done the "Mad scientist will do anything for power" trope. Add in that between Osiris' multiple copies and Elsie's traveling through different versions of reality to change the outcome, a Multiverse Maya is not ideal storytelling to keep folks around.
We also got a look at what those copies are like in the Clovis Bray logbook especially during the nightmare fuel scene with him on the operating table
@@dominobuchanan-vargas7601what scene are you talking about
I love the call backs to D1 content. Helps make things feel more cohesive.
Here is something that I’ve been thinking about in an odd way what if when bungie releases a new dark subclass it ties into the Vex simulating the darkness. We know they can’t simulate the light or dark paracausal energy but what if the Sol collective at the end of final shape can and we inherently learn it to which brings back Asher as our mentor
Considering that its in a Vex Structure and not in the open, it could mean x amount of things. What I really want to know is why the portal to it is Awoken design and not Vex. Has well as the platforms. But its most likely going to be 'fits with the seasonal theme.'
It was a really small thing but I liked how the vex had built a mausoleum of sorts to Saint-14 and I wish that there had been a little dialogue about it after we got him from the sundial
The Vex faction isn't that "empty"... You forgot we had to deal with Penoptes, the Sanctified Mind, the Undying Mind & Persys. Then there's this one Vex from some Neomuna lore who supposedly stole some kids in the Cloudark & it calls itself "King" of some kingdom in the Vex Net
besides the last one, the rest are all generic bosses with no character/ compelling narrative
The Vex are the least fleshed out faction, and for food reason. The other 3 have been carrying the narrative well, but for Vex you'd have to go into time travel bullshit and that is a DEEP rabbit hole.
@@dillon3044 While Persys is just a Wyvern trying to blow up an arc reactor to stop us from figuring out that the Witness is researching the collapse to see where Nezerac lost the Veil the others have some nifty lore.
Undying is the oldest grumpiest and angriest of all repair technican minds in the vex network, due to the way the blackgarden works "growing backwards and forwards in time" the blackgarden could subjectively be older than the universe and Undying is the mind that repairs it whenever some important research function breaks and it has done so for eons. Compared to other repair/management minds like Quaria and the destiny 1 playstation exclusive giant harpy Undying doesn't have special abilities or powers, it is just unfathomably old and very determined to repair the garden.
Panoptes is arguably one of the scariest minds along with Atheon on the existential dread front for our guardians who are otherwise very resistant to simulation and time travel sheningans. Panoptes with data from the Travelers anti Ghaul blast managed to calculate an outcome where both light and dark died out leaving the Vex the unversal winners. Panoptes was busy calculating exactly what caused that outcome to happen to figure out a strategy for the vex to follow to turn that possibility into a certainty. Sure Osiris had to do the villain monolgue explaining for Panoptes since it can't talk but if we didn't stop Panoptes we would have lost without even knowing it. Because the Vex would then figure out a way to act to manipulate us and the witness into getting a tie and mutual kill leaving both the witness and us dead.
Finally Sanctified and Consecrated Mind are perhaps the most intressting if you look at the deeper readings of the Garden of Salvation lore. The kentarch 3 a fireteam of guardians following a guardian sect who belives in researching dangerous knowledge and either using it or destroying it if it is to dangerous. The Kentarch 3 or just The 3 arrived in the garden ahead of us and they didn't seem to have any issues with raidboss vex guarding the way. They communed with the darkness at the end of the raid, they got the vex armor and weapons as gifts from the darkness and found Divinity. 2 of them wanted to bring this darkness knowledge back with them but 1 decided that this knowledge had to be buried and killed the other 2:s ghosts. In the end it was him with a sniper and a ghost against the other 2 guarding the portal out to keep them from leaving.
After the end there where no bodies found and 2 giant darkness wielding vex meditating in the garden and divinity safetly locked away again. The theories are either the hunter guarding the portal won and transformed into the sanctified mind while his ghost became the consecrated mind or the other 2 won and the titan became the sanctified mind and the warlock became the consecrated mind.
Ok so the Vex mind that called itself "king," Aesop, overran the then unprotected cloudark with viruses. It offered peace if the citizens of Neomuna worshipped him, but they denied. then the Aesop mind cuts the Neomuni children's link to the cloudark, or viruses or something like that, killing them all. only place I've seen of this so far is the poem found on the Swarmer's lore tab.
I think I’d rather see a vex character where like they create a vex mind that’s literally trying to replicate a human mind and speaks to us and like has emotions and develops. And we learn more about vex motivations that way.
Since the Ishtar insignia is found within Taranis's lair specifically, I wonder if maybe the copies of the researchers who found their way to the Black Garden could make wishes.
I don't know how "real" something has to be to bargain with an Ahamkara, but if these copies are real enough to interact with figures like Praedyth and gather information, then they could possibly make wishes too. Perhaps Taranis, who we know to be something of a benevolent sort, granted their wish for a safe haven within the Garden (with the unintended consequence of protecting his lair as a whole).
Tangentially, I also think it would be interesting to see a "corrupted" simulation of, say, Maya Sundaresh that has somehow gained the ability to direct and manipulate Vex units. Could give some much-needed... personality to the faction.
Been saying for awhile now that Maya/Lakshmi will become a Locutus analog for the Borg-like Vex. If that's the case I might just stick around after FS to see how that plays out.
i love so much that after 10 years, we are STILL in the black garden. it feels very interconnected, and looping back into D1
my first thought is Venus. Where the Ishtar collective mostly gathered. A planet where the Ahamkara had razed. So I'm curios to know if theres somekind of connection between that event and the collective
lets go was just saying time to wait for the byf video
how about the lore book we get for completing the catalyst quests?
Would be really awesome if the simulated copies have set up outposts in Vex space where they've wrestled control away from the Vex in, and that little symbol there is how they mark them.
I feel like this may be setting up something that we will learn more about in the Echoes episode post Final Shape. From the image that was revealed showing the first 3 episodes we see a figure that (at least to me) vaguely resembles a vex goblin head, could be a potentially new unit of vex or a new villain related to the vex, maybe even a new ally.
I also think this is a set up because we've seen earlier this season a similar thing happening with Fikrul, aka The Fanatic. We know the second episode, Revenant, has to do with the scorn and I don't think Fikrul was mentioned multiple times in dialogue this season for no reason. He's up to something.
And, you know, Asher Mir being in the network.
except he's been consumed by the network@@ShadowDreamer100
For a vex story I think it would be interesting to see Clovis Bray AI taking control over some of the Vex. Building him a gate lord body or something
Byf I know your pain, have been having internet problems keeping me from doing anything until now so stay strong.
Asher could also hear the vex and has yet to make a full corporeal return. He could easily be used in some interesting ways along with others in the vex networks
The Veil had been compared to the OXA machine -- a structure that continually records and documents thoughts, minds, qualia. The Vex want it for its endless simulation ability.
What might that say about the nature of the Black Heart? What did the Black Heart offer other than just power?
I just did this today avoiding vids from you and Myelin to not hear the dialogue. Its nice to know I did nothing wrong, and it just wasn't there. That was a strange choice. Curious if that was on purpose or if someone screwed up.
Even with the lack of dialogue, it was still neat to see considering past lore, Veil Containment , and Avalon. Feels like all of this has to be building to something big with Vex finally starting in Echoes.
I wonder if the copies of the Ishtar team have been keeping the full might of the Vex from conquering the system wholesale? It's also interesting the Act 1 "Echoes" image seems to be a Guardian (a Titan?) seemingly wearing a goblin's crest as a helmet or headdress.
Gosh, I want to see the Vex to have more depth. Like Panoptes. That thing moved and behaved like it had emotion, and while I understand it was probably hell to make a model like that, it was an amazing experience.
No Panoptes
There was a campaign mission a while back that had you follow a "friendly" Harpy into the depths of Nessus. Later, at the end of the season of the splicer, there was another Harpy that was trying to communicate via morse code. There were claims that this Harpy was Asher Mir, but given this new information perhaps maybe it was an echo of Asher Mir. It would not surprise me in the least if there was a small faction of "echos" within the Vex network that have been working against the majority.
I was waiting for this video !!!!! Let’s gooo
definitely a tease for echoes (i think maya sundaresh is the mysterious exo lady)
I really have high hopes for the story with the Vex, they seem so interesting and the lore has the potential to run so deep, it just feels like we've only ever gotten a look at the very surface level stuff.
I wonder if the emblem has a secret code like Morse code or something. It's unlikely but that's all we got besides the logo in of the Ishtar Collective in the black garden.
It’s almost like a calling card, the ishtar scientists have never out right contacted us before and the last thing in universe we heard from them was them attempting to jailbreak a certain warlock out of his loop in the Vault of Glass
This is why Destiny keeps going on after 10 years, the subtleness of obscure and potential progression of what will, may or not become. Just when I thought I was out.... they pull me back in!
The craziest thing was seeing that exotic machine gun in the footage 😂
That danged shrouded statue is one of the Mayas. I've always thought that she would be a master of the network. But maybe she influenced everything...
I've always thought that the Black Garden was a Vex construction, but this makes me think that it's just a separate dimension that was colonised by the Vex.
In the Aspect lore book's chapter: Jussive, it details Praedyth's observation of the Ishtar Collective's simulations leapfrogging within the networks, sending messages to the their edges while Praedyth is attempting to use those channels to send his own message(s) (which he successfully does with No Time to Explain in D1). But this chapter tells us three potential things, the third being a potential gateway to the Echoes episode post-Final Shape:
1) The Ishtar simulations are still within the networks, attempting to communicate with the outside world and reach us. This purpose is still vaguely unknown because we don't know what Ishtar is trying to accomplish aside from establishing said communication, but MSund12 also acquired info on the OXA machine. What they learned or whether or not they were able to communicate with it is still unknown post-Insight Terminus, but it could be a foresight into potentially post-Final Shape story (i.e. Echoes).
2) It's unknown if the No Time to Explain from D1 is the same variant or a completely separate copy of the version we obtain in Beyond Light. The one we obtained in D1 is crafted from Praedyth's gear that he sent through the network and eventually ended up with the Future War Cult; but the first instance of *our* Elsie acquiring NTTE was when Clovis retrieved it from her corpse in the alternative timeline of 3025. It could be paradoxical in nature like the Perfect Paradox, but other variations (i.e. Machina Dei 4, Adhortative) suggest that NTTE's entire existence could be multidimensionally/multi-chronologically complex (unless it's purely coincidental and reused assets) where it just travels from one timeline to another until it reached its current state (i.e. the version we currently have).
3) It is unknown what the fate of Ishtar and Praedyth will be post-Final Shape. MSund12 came in contact with the OXA machine (and it's unfortunate we didn't get info on Taox during Lightfall's seasons), Praedyth knew of the coming "tidal wave" (i.e. Pyramid fleet, the Witness, the Final Shape) and his warning via D1's No Time to Explain, and the Vex have only simulated the Final Shape's inevitable arrival (or rather, it's unknown if they were able to simulate beyond that). Asher's actions throughout Avalon and the simulation of the Veil *could've* granted the Vex a potential methodology to simulate paracausality so it could be possible that they're planning for post-Final Shape *if* we win (which I'm assuming we will). Bungie also hinted about the Vex's ultimate endgame, claiming that they'd want to survive post-Final Shape by waiting to see the conclusion [i.e. if we wipe each other out and the Vex survive afterwards].
I would love to see more with the vex even some origin story time travel bs
From Age old bond we know that Praedyth was caged in the Vault of Glass not because of the Vex but because of a wish granted from an Ahamkara.
The lore tab from Aspects where Praedyth and the copies of the Ishtar's experiment are trying to free themself is called "irrealis" which is an action that is not happening as the speaker talks.
The tab says "Somewhere, a veil is always lifting.
Somewhere, Kabr is always dooming himself.
Somewhere, a door is always opening.
Somewhere, they are always stepping through."
My speculation is that in echoes Praedyth and the Ishtar's copies will be free and face some darkness infused vex in the Garden.
Was waiting to hear about the Ishtar Collective item because the game didn’t give ANYTHING.
it will be nice to get a deeper dive into vex stories. im hoping that we once we beat the big bad everyone under their control will split and go after their true goals. that includes humans of earth. we will see a lot of factions scramble to claim remnants of the witnesses power.
I really love how they’re setting up for after TFS
Thanks Mr Byf
Right off the bat, I didn't know that was the Istar collective's logo, the more know.
3:00 this is how Bungie will bring in new players post TFS. "yeah, this was all a Vex simulation, now try again like Elsie"
Great video
As I am working on a project at home and listening to some of your old Destiny lore videos, I had a thought. Is it possible that the Ishtar (spelling?) Collective simulations could be the Nine? While I listened to this video and the video about what are the Nine had a lot in common. Just a thought.
Love the lore and story
Did anyone else pay attention to the music clip that plays in that room? Bungie likes to sneak snippets of the future OSTs into things to foreshadow the next expansion. They did it with spire of the watcher. A very small, short, 2 or 3 second clip of music can be heard that is only ever heard on neomuna. The music in this room is unlike anything I've heard in the game. It's new. Anyone else notice that??
definitely a hint towards the episodes after final shape
Loved this season so much the lore was so good..
Best destiny page
I found portal somewhere in the dreaming city, it’s like I found something there , a room that show a exotic symbol
We love some destiny 1 lore connections!
I was hoping he would talk about it being called the 'Roost.'
I’m really hoping that if we get more expansions after final shape that we get one focused on the vex, I’m also hoping this mission kinda leads us into the first episode of echoes which seems to have a vex theme to it
Byf I need help iterating how I see the story going!!
I can feel it in my mind I just can't express it in words...
I need to write some stuff down
I'd love to see some rogue factions from the vex, to give them some kind of independence or a voice like you said
I think there is evidence to point in the exotic mission to suggest that the vex incorporated the remains of Taranis... there are at least two dragon themed vex frames and it would explain why they are protecting the eggs.
I have also been wondering since the veil containment missions if the simulated copies of the ishtar teams could have fused their symulated conciousness together to for a symulated Witness... that we coule have met in the black garden all those years ago... symulated.
Okay, but what about failsafe? She was awesome during the Red War and then COMPLETELY ignored and left out since then. I really hope she gets included during some of the vex stores and campaigns in the future.
For those saying the portal leads outside the Black garden, this may not be true. When you pull out your Ghost, the location says 'Roost' which is Taranis' lair within the BG. Also, the text for the starcat triumph speaks something along the lines of "A starcat in the BG?... How did they get in here?"
So not really a comment on the video as I’m just starting it but are you still planning on doing a massive “this is the whole story of Destiny” video before Final Shape Byf? If not that’s a bit of a bummer but I’d understand since it’d be extremely massive. Hoping it will still be a thing though, love your super long videos.
Lets make Byf glad.
I'm really glad the exotic mission rolled out the lore and didn't just dump it all at once, especially since there was lots to dive into every week. Definitely a Bungie W
I would love to see another named big bad Vex, instead of just "___ Mind". Maybe a new vex spacecraft?
i'm at 5min in the vid' dunno if you answer it later, but i have that little thought at the moment.... why wouldn't the Vex be able to simulate Rasputin? If they are able to simulate perfect copie and the scientist are like: "OMG how they do that?" Then, if we we're able to build Rasputin, it should be a piece of caqke for them (not only that but pretty sure their submind are pretty much on par with Rasputin at this point, i mean, one vex that control an entire planet like it is an organism, i feel that even that is maybe too much for our little Rasputin)
Rasputin was the result of Golden Age innovations only possible thanks to the Traveler.
That small caveat likely wasn’t considered by the team, but it explains Rasputin still holding an edge.
I always assumed it was because the it was a single damaged goblin doing the simulating, so it may not have had enough computational power to simulate Rasputin and all of his subminds while also simulating 280+ perfect realities
I really do hope this is a very subtle setup for a "main baddy being Vex" focused future after the Witness is dealt with.
What I'm really curious about is if whether or not any of the copies of the Ishtar team actually made wishes to Taranis before his sacrifice to save his and Riven's eggs and what those wishes potentially were
13 minute video about a simple logo YES sensational video 🥵🥵
What if the Ishtar Collective or at least some of the scientists to include Mya Sunderesh are the proto-Vex or creators. Like at what point did they actually appear in Sol. What if the IC scientists that initially went into the portal were the creators of the Vex or at least influenced enough by radiolaria to create the Vex. Couple that with all the predictive outlets at their disposal (OXA, Rasputin/Soteria, Infinite Forest, etc) and its plausible. Or I'm missing some key lore and this is just head canon.
i'd argue pnoptes was also a potential threat seeing as it managed to find a future where they won...kind of
Hopefully there is more information about quria in the vex episode because a part of me believes that its alive still somewhere and wasnt just some small boss back in season of the splicer. If anybody knows something as well then that would also be greatly appreciated.
Are we even sure that the logo is in the black garden? Sure the mission takes place in the black garden, but you go through a portal to reach the room with the logo in it. It could be anywhere in vex space couldn’t it? The architecture doesn’t seem to match with the black garden, at least to me
It's quite identical to the Citadel on Venus, but there's a construct similar to it in the mission, so it is in the Black Garden
@@legitimadfs1151 could It be a teaser well go to Venus in the Future?
The Ishtar Collective, inside the Black Garden? That's strange, wasn't there one on Mars and Neptune?
& most importantly, the Ishtar Academy on VENUS
Oh, right. sorry. Forgot there was always one more. But why the Black Garden, in Taranis' lair?
i think it was more of a "place in time" there was way too much vex infastructure for us to still be in the black garden, the triangle like corridors lead me to belive it was a spot in the corridors of time. Potentially leading up to us saving Praedyth in the same way we saved saint.
@@Jakesterpop1
Isn't that crazy that the logo seems to be the traveler in the center, a ring or shield being pierced by the veil......
We know that Taranis was the most benevolent of the Ahamkara to our knowledge. Those that made deals with him were cared for. Could it be that the copies of the researchers made wishes with Taranis?
Like everyone else is saying. It crazy to think there wasn’t no dialogue. Would have been cool our ghost questioning it or like randomly Osiris speak.
Maybe he heard someone wishing within the black garden and helped them, them being one of the copies
May this also be a hint at the possibility of a returning Venus to coincide with the ishtar collective story?
Here’s my take on the whole thing: the veil is the winnower, it reaps on its own and discovered the first knife aka the witness. Maya was trying to use the veil to merge Ishtar minds, they were too weak and died. The veil found a collective strong enough to bear the burden of emotion in the civilization of the witness. It reaped and cropped away any people not strong enough. The traveler is the gardener, sowing seeds of life. The guardians are the opposite of the first knife, not sure what that is yet but we are an avatar of its will. Remember the flower rules? We are the flower that is growing and thriving. While the witness is trying to impose the rest of the rules by resetting the set up of the initial game
My thinking is that the Echoes episode, since we know it will feature the Vex, is specifically going to focus on the Sol Divisive. That particular group of Vex has been repeatedly shown as looking for something to worship - at present, that's The Witness. But, when we defeat The Witness, what will there be for them? Maybe, a certain simulation of Maya Sundaresh, considering the Veil Containment logs? My thinking is that some of the simulations of Ishtar Collective within the Vex Network will take over as the "Gods" of the Sol Divisive, and the episode will deal with bringing that under control, likely with the help of Mithrax.
Anyone else miss the goblin’s smaller head plate design?
Seen this and said byf will tell me what this means 😂
I definitely feel like this is a set up for episode 1 seeing how we have set up episode 2 with the dungeon and story, and then episode 3 with last season
My guess is that Praedyth will be involved somehow
It seems this is pointing towards towards Echos after Final Shape?
Season of the Witch set up Episode 3, Season of the Wish set up Episode 2, and LF plus this info set up Episode 1.
Have an idea what Season of the Deep set up?
@@outrunrider3661 Nothing. It finished the missing story pieces of LF and continued the seasonal content
I believe the vex homeworld, Asher, Maya, Osiris Reflections, Praedyth, everything Involving the vex that hasn't Led directly to the witness is going to be the subject of the next era for destiny, we have many things to tie up, The Vex, Fikrul and of course Xivu Arath, which is perfectly lining up with the episodes thing we've seen, like PERFECTLY, the next era for destiny will be cleaning up loose ends
The portal finally, oh kitty beat me through!
Most shocking part of this video is Buf using Deterministic Chaos 😮
I’m gonna guess in typical destiny fashion, one of those guys who was lost in time will return with a friendly vex army