The stones just obtained all of the rights to this music from their record company and immediately removed their names from the Bittersweet Symphony writing credits and are giving all future royalties to The Verve. Proof that it was the record companies who had the issue, not the artists. Rock on!
Yeah, they basically copied the orchestral version, they didn't change a single note, great job as the orchestral version was perfect, changing it would have made it worst
They slightly changed the rhythm....and made it only with strings, that's all... only 6 notes, and yet, it is great, I like the Verve's version better.
The fact that this song is all The Verve is known for tells you everything you need to know. While Andrew Oldham, though not a household name, has the legacy of having been the producer for The Rolling Stones.
That transition at 1:58 is like the momentary rush you get when you walk to the edge of the roof of a skyscraper and look down and your mind tries to catch up with the view of the huge drop....
Absolutely, the transition is a masterpiece. And I have little doubt The Verve copied the tune from the Rolling Stones, who had previously copied it from the Staple Singers!
Fallon brought me here. I'm musically retarded, I hear not one bit of The Last Time in this. The whole thing sounds like Bitter Sweet Symphony to me. To my tin ear, those songs have nothing in common. Is this a giant prank on me?
So, the story goes more or less like this. Back in the day, a gospel group called "The Staple Singers" recorded a traditional folk song called " This May be the Last Time". In the 60´s, The Rolling Stones ripped it off and made a typical Rolling Stone song with more or less the same lyrics called "The Last Time". Soon after, their manager Andrew Loog Oldham assembled a group of musicians to create orchestrated versions of Rolling Stone´s songs, and among those, he asked David Whitaker, an english composer and arranger to create the orchestration for "The Last Time", which he did. This string orchestration is the one we hear in "Bitter Sweet Symphony", the one that The Verb ripped off. The Rolling Stones "original" song has hardly anything to do with this version. They were mediators, they ripped of a song and later sued a band for copyright infridgement on an arrangement the didn´t made from a song that wasn´t originally theirs in the first place. If anyone should ask for copyright is the 19th century anonymous hillbilly/black countryman songwriter or the orchestrator David Whitaker, the rest are full of shit. So, this is the kinda crap copyright bullshit that fucked up today music... I said so.
why? He´s the manager, even less relevant. Managers are parasites. I think they were anyway, it was Oldham that made the claim as I recall, not Jagger.
I think most are parasites, I don't know why, but I've always had a hunch that Peter Grant was responsible for Led Zeppelin's "stolen money" incident in 1973.
Exactly, it was a case of greed, the verve got permission to use a sample, even if it was used throughout the song, they had no right to take %100 royalties and songwriting credit when there's no similarities in melody or lyrics in relation to "the last time". If anything, David Whitaker should have gotten %30 for writing the popular melody/motif, the rolling stones/oldham %20, and the verve %50 for original lyrics and melody.
Actually it wasn’t the stones collecting the royalties, it was the record company that had 100% of the rights to the stones “the last time” song…I just wish the stones would’ve been more vocal about the whole issue…
@@sergewangneur it was Allen Klein, not the Stones. He controlled all of their Decca catalog recordings from 63-69. He kept bleeding the Stones dry. So he did the same to The Verve. Klein was the main reason the Beatles broke up. Everyone except for Paul wanted him as their manager and Paul was astute enough to know how shady Klein was. He had a reputation for being a ruthless businessman.
@@marlboro308 they did... they were given the rights to sample the music, but Jagger saw that The Verve were going to have a smash hit and wanted to take the money and credit. I'm guessing the stones own the Andrew Oldham Orchestra, and it sounds nothing like the original song 'this could be the last time'. Its just been about money for the stones... they've lost my respect
@@christhomas7905 Mick and Keith didn't care, band manager Allen Klein was the only one who made a big deal out of it, it was all him that got the rights taken away from The Verve. Keith is quoted as saying that it was some "serious lawyer shit" and "if The Verve can make a better song, they can keep the money."
I like both version but I think The Verve's version make the Stones's version even more beautiful. In a way, Bittersweet symphony is an improve version of The last time.
@@BeachBoysSummerPartywhy odd? Marries are part of the "hopelessness of life", you need to stick with that and like it, because me nor you know the future. Because this is part of the life. And somewhat, this is the great thing of living! You will always have to give your best regardless of the rest, and even if it isn't enough, you will have done the best you could, that's excellent. Imagine the boredom of already knowing what will happen, I couldn't live in a life like that. So throw yourself into the desolate world of circumstances, play dice with luck, and you will see that those who win are those who struggle. I wish you a world of goodness
These songs are the biggest example of Record Companies / Group Managers taking undeserved control over the artists material, Jagger and Richards never agreed with the rights going to them. Good on them for sorting it out!
So it all started over a sample from this Andrew Oldham Orchestra recording of the Rolling Stones' song "The Last Time"......There never actually was an "Andrew Oldham Orchestra" -- Oldham was the Stones manager/producer at the time, & he used his musical connections & studio knowledge to create various side projects under that name. The Verve had successfully negotiated the rights to use a six-note sample of said recording from Decca Records, the recording's copyright holder -- however, they did NOT obtain direct permission from another former Rolling Stones manager Allen Klein, who owned the actual song copyrights. One version of the story is that the Stones & Decca agreed to license a five-note segment in exchange for 50 percent of the royalties, but Klein claimed the Verve voided the agreement by using a SIX-note sample. Although "Bitter Sweet Symphony" had already been released, Klein refused to grant the licence for the sample, as Decca Records had previously done -- This led to a lawsuit with ABKCO Records (Klein's holding company), which was settled out of court. The Verve ended up having to relinquish all royalties to Klein, and the songwriting credits were changed to Jagger/Richards, with Ashcroft receiving just $1,000 for completely relinquishing those rights. Verve bassist Simon Jones said, "We were told it was going to be a 50/50 split, and then they saw how well the record was doing -- They rung up and said we want 100 percent or take it out of the shops....you don't have much choice." Ashcroft sarcastically said, "This is the best song Jagger and Richards have written in 20 years", noting it was their biggest UK hit since "Brown Sugar". In a 1999 interview, when asked whether he believed the end result was fair, Keith Richards said: "I'm out of whack here, this is serious lawyer shit. If the Verve can write a better song, they can keep the money!" Eventually, Andrew Loog Oldham jumped on the money train as well & sued The Verve after failing to receive the so-called "mechanical royalties" he claimed he was owed. After receiving his royalties, Oldham joked that he bought "a pretty presentable watch strap" compared to the watch Jagger and Richards would get with their money. In a later interview, he said: "As for Richard Ashcroft: well, I don't know how an artist can be severely damaged by that experience. Songwriters have learned to call songs their children, and he thinks he wrote something. He didn't. I hope he's got over it. It takes a while." In May 2019, Ashcroft received the Ivor Novello Award for Outstanding Contribution to British Music from the British Academy of Songwriters, Composers, and Authors. Ashcroft announced that the dispute was over following negotiations with Klein's son, Jody, and the Rolling Stones' new manager Joyce Smith. Ashcroft thanked Jagger and Richards "for acknowledging me as the writer of a fucking masterpiece!" He added: "As of last month, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards signed over all their publishing for Bittersweet Symphony, which was a truly kind and magnanimous thing for them to do. I never had a personal beef with the Stones. They've always been the greatest rock and roll band in the world. It's been a fantastic development. It's life-affirming in a way."
As far as I know the Verve had permission from the Rolling Stones to use the sample from "The Last Time". The definition of a sample is that a "sample" of an original piece of music can be used in another composition but cannot form the foundation of it or in other words be used from start to finish. This is where the Verve got themselves in trouble. There is no denying it is a crystal clear sample for which permission of use was given so never mind the name calling and cries of plagiarism, the reason the courts ruled against the Verve is because the "sample" runs from start to finish of "Bitter Sweet Symphony". Probably the toughest lesson learned in music legal history but my God, what a fucking tune!
jonesybar Actually, the sample runs from the beginning to the end of Bitter Sweet Symphony. All the way through dude. A sample can't be the foundation of the new song. Get your facts straight bub.
Who else appreciates the irony that Bittersweet Symphony, which was HUGELY influenced by The Last Time was featured in Cruel Intentions which was HUGELY influenced by Dangerous Liasons?
It was all about ego and greed, the stones received royalties they didn't deserve, and after a huge amount of money was made off the verve's version and paid to the stones, they finally agreed to give "future" royalties to the verve, kind of "we have squeezed all the juice out of this orange, you can have it now"
The Stones “sampled” Andrew Oldham Orchestra for their song “The Last time.” (Orchestral version) ✔️ The Verve also “sampled” Andrew Oldham Orchestra for Bittersweet Symphony. ✔️ What the Verve failed to do was “sample“ The Stones “The Last Time.“ ❌ I think the root of the problem is that the Verve did not have adequate music industry legal counsel before publishing, Bittersweet Symphony. If they had been better represented by a knowledgeable, music attorney, they would’ve realized that it was encompassed in The Stones song The Last Time. But sampling a song does not give you the rights to the original music. That’s what I don’t get and I think it was wrong. But I’m not a judge, nor am I in the music industry. I think they got hosed. But at least this is a well played song so they will get royalties enough to live comfortably, but not like “Rockstars.“
Amo profondamente sia i Fab4 che gli Stones e devo dire che this could be …”The Last One” è uno dei loro pezzi che mi fanno impazzire …. però: grazie a Oldham e soprattutto ad Ascroft per aver insistito, resistito ed avere infine portato alla luce uno dei più bei pezzi di sempre ! Viva il Rock ! .. e bravi Mick & Keith per aver rinunciato ai diritti : questo bellissimo pezzo fa bene anche alla loro grandezza, probabilmente lo hanno capito anche se in ritardo.
It is a wonderful marriage of the 2 - the Oldham orchestra w/ Bittersweet symphony. the bells are what make it. which are a symphony on their own merit.
Can't believe that in this age of information, there is still so much disinformation out there. The Rolling Stones did not, I repeat, did not sue The Verve. The Stones were not involved in this in any way ! It was ABKCO Music Inc that sued them, based on the recording of "The Last Time" by the Andrew Oldham Orchestra of which they (ABKCO) own the publishing rights. ABKCO owns and controls 100% of the worldwide copyright to the original 1963-1971 publishing catalog of Jagger/Richards Rolling Stones compositions. Sadly, The Verve made a great musical creation by using the sample from the Oldham version , but they paid a heavy price for a small mistake... Taken from wikipedia: On their song "Bitter Sweet Symphony" the British alternative rock group the Verve sampled the Andrew Oldham Orchestra's version of the Rolling Stones song "The Last Time," the rights to which were owned by ABKCO, and included it on their 1997 album Urban Hymns. The Verve had obtained the rights to sample the recording from Decca but didn't think of getting permission from ABKCO until the album was ready for release by EMI. Realizing that he had the advantage in negotiations, Klein forced Verve vocalist Richard Ashcroft to sell his rights as lyricist to ABKCO for $1,000 and ABKCO became the sole publisher of "Bitter Sweet Symphony." The song became a hit, popular for use at sporting events, and it was a big money-maker for ABKCO, which licensed its use for commercials advertising Nike shoes and Opel automobiles. Mick Jagger and Keith Richards were nominated for a Grammy for Song of the Year, even though "Bitter Sweet Symphony" bears little resemblance to the Stones' "The Last Time
"The Verve made a great musical creation by using the sample from the Oldham version" ...using a Sample? It's basically a polished copy with added lyrics, which are to be honest good but not great. I really don't see the greatness in this last creation phase. Don't get me wrong it IS a great musical creation after all, but it's more like 80% Oldham, 18% Verve and 2% Stones.
Bitter Sweet Symphony é uma linda versão da música original. Ficou até melhor que a música original. Não tem nada de plágio. Os direitos autorais foram concedidos.
The sad thing is that nobody remeber about the song of The Staples Singers, ''This May Be The Last Time'', that once was stolen too, but by the Stones...
+Roman Výbošťok you are aware the last time has two different recordings right? The first one is from the Stones and it in fact is ripped off. The one playing here was done by the guy who owns the rights to Stones pre 1970s music.
There is only the one sentence that is the same, "may be the last time, I don't know", so I think in the Stones song it was more about making reference to the song than stealing it. The whole song sounds nothing like the Staple Singers' song.
Some one should make a movie where a father and son bond over their depression and the son ha bittersweet symphony while the dad has last time and then they combine as they bond more
apartir del minuto 2 waoooooo es una de lasejores canciones que he escuchado en mi vida ....sin duda alguna esta cancion en tu auto a todo vpmumen y luego bajas del carro y caminas haciatras locazooooooo
Well done to the stones for the great instrumental then to the verve for 1 ov the best indie songs ever.never tire ov listening to this song.up there with the best imo.
Lorena00 que tonto, cómo puedes decir eso ? A eso se le llama plagio. Se les hizo muy fácil cambiar los arreglos y pensaron que pasarían desapercibidos y hacerse famosos a costa de los demás. Afortunadamente los derechos de la canción están a nombre de quien lo merece.
@@sahibzitho que ignorante eres... Se les pidió permiso para arreglarla se llama un Sample... Al ser un Sample de una canción te pertenece .. así que infórmate q en la actualidad los ladrones le han devuelto todos los derechos a El q arreglo mágicamente esa canción claro les peso la conciencia y se arrepintieron ya que el #Daño ya está hecho.
Okay, I see little to no connection between the original The Last Time and the orchestral version of The Last Time, and I am listening for it really hard. At best it sounds like a really slow version of the original. I really don't see anybody connecting these two songs together on their own. So...let me get this straight...this Andrew Oldham made a song that was at best inspired by The Last Time (a song that is decent but nothing special), and called it a cover of The Last Time. Then The Verve came along, heard this, and got full rights to it. Then they offered 50/50 royalties to THE ROLLING STONES for their sampling of the orchestral version that is at best tangentially related to The Last Time. Then, when the song became a hit, the Rolling Stones demanded FULL ROYALTIES? I think I officially have deep moral qualms with the Rolling Stones.
The Rolling Stones didn't demand the full royalties, their former manager Allen Klein did. Klein's ABKCO Industries (now distributed through Universal Music) owns all of the Stones' catalogue along with Andrew Loog Oldham's compositions. He's the one that demanded 100% of the royalties after the song became popular and then furthermore licensed the song to Nike to use in a commercial against both the Verve and the Rolling Stones' wishes. You have to realise the Stones fired Klein as their manager in 1970 and then also went through a nearly 20 year legal dispute with him to buy back their music catalogue because he wasn't paying their royalties as well. At no point did Jagger/Richards ever sought after royalties for Bitter Sweet Symphony. It's one of the greatest misconceptions in music history.
Yeah, but the Stones ended up with all the royalty $ from the song. They have enough money of their own, so you'd think they could be upstanding dudes and give it back to the Verve? Nope.
There's no fucking comparison between a cludgy musical oddity and the majesty of Bittersweet Symphony. I'm not talking about the Stones song, which is great in a different way, but more with the Loong Oldham orchestral version. The Verve ended up sharing their royalties, as they should have, but BSS a triumph of 90s Britpop, and stunning in any era.
I can't say that I met Richard Ashcroft and Liam Gallagher in the middle of Camden High Road all those years ago .. it was about summertime and there was no traffic at all .. these things only happen in Camden Town .. I never met any Stones tho'
The fact that this song is all The Verve is known for tells you everything you need to know. While Andrew Oldham, though not a household name, has the legacy of having been the producer for The Rolling Stones.
"The fact that this song is all The Verve is known for..." Erm, that isn't a fact. Or even a half-truth. The Verve are known for more than this one song. Much more. Do some research.
@@jackdubz4247 @jackdubz4247 I did. In the United States, this is their only song that charted. On their "best of" Vevo playlist on UA-cam, this song has more than 9 times the views of any other song listed. Apart from music aficionados, this is the only The Verve song that the average person can name.....I'm willing to bet you that, though I haven't actually gone out into the field to poll people. It's a brilliant song, but when I first heard the Oldham Orchestra version of The Last Time, I shat a brick. It was the entire skeleton of Bitter Sweet Symphony, as well as some of the organs.
everyone who says the Verve "didnt make a penny from it" you are wrong. This song brought them a level of success they didnt have previously im sure they made some good money from the myriad of concerts they have been able to play and the fame they have parlayed since this. They should be thankfull because honestly they just straight up stole this and sung over top of it.
se for escutar Last Time esperando ouvir Bitter sweet, vai achar pouca semelhança. Pq na real eles pegaram Last Time na versão instrumental.... daí sim, dá pra ouvir q é parecido.
Si vas a plagiar, tiene que ser para hacer algo mucho mejor a lo ya hecho.... Y The Verve lo hizo de sobremanera!! Bitterweet Symphony top 10 de las mejores composiciones de la historia.
few comments here about The Staple Singers "This May Be The Last Time" from which Roling Stones take a healthy chunky sample of tune and unashamedly just use the original lyrics and title no problem. The total result is a big musical jump but may warrant a mention to the staples but in those days this kind of building on the works of the black american singers was very common and almost no one ever bothered to recognise. Again the Verve really did something way beyond in a radically different direction than the original it is hard to believe more than a nod to the original sample source is needed. Potty. Seems whoever got the most expensive lawyers win.
Mick Jagger y Keith Richard hicieron lo correcto, regresaron los derechos a Richard Ashcrofth. No estaba en manos de los Stones desde un inicio hacerlo, porque Allen Klein tenía los derechos de la canción. Es quizá la mejor canción de los 90's.
Doesn't matter if it sounds different, it's a symphonic version of a riff that was written by Keith Richards and that symphonic version was used in The Verve's song, but it is still Richards' riff.
The Verve made a rather fair song into a great song. Listen to the Bittersweet Symphony at the BBC and the stones never did anything that good. Never ever. They simply are more talented when it came to that style of sound.
Everyone keeps mentioning the Rolling Stones, but this version of 'The Last Time' is an almost completely different arrangement by the Andrew Oldham Orchestra. Sure, Bitter Sweet Symphony didn't really rip off anything from the Stones, but you can't seriously believe that their song is any different from the main bit of this version of the last time. They essentially added lyrics to it and called it a day (not that that is necessarily all that bad) . It's the same even down to the beat.
Oasis also copied “my sweet lord” by George Harrison with their “supersonic”. Also with “cigarettes and alcohol” with “bang a gong”, and “don’t look back in anger” with “imagine”.
The stones just obtained all of the rights to this music from their record company and immediately removed their names from the Bittersweet Symphony writing credits and are giving all future royalties to The Verve. Proof that it was the record companies who had the issue, not the artists. Rock on!
Too bad they missed out on the last 22 years of royalties that they never got a cent of huh?
TheDrexxus he would have spent it on cigarettes and heroin anyway so...
Chris Slade Yeah, because the Rolling Stones didnt take drugs at all .....
It’s a “Bittersweet Victory”
The big money has already been made, which they will never see any money for. Kind of sad that he only got the rights so late
I think the Verve did an amazing job.
Yeah, they basically copied the orchestral version, they didn't change a single note, great job as the orchestral version was perfect, changing it would have made it worst
An amazing job of theft.
They slightly changed the rhythm....and made it only with strings, that's all... only 6 notes, and yet, it is great, I like the Verve's version better.
How the fuck is it theft? They asked to sample it 😂😭
The fact that this song is all The Verve is known for tells you everything you need to know. While Andrew Oldham, though not a household name, has the legacy of having been the producer for The Rolling Stones.
That transition at 1:58 is like the momentary rush you get when you walk to the edge of the roof of a skyscraper and look down and your mind tries to catch up with the view of the huge drop....
That’s called vertigo, this is different this is called absolute pleasure
...as you do
And the huge drop isn’t there ………..
That’s mad. Why are you doing that for.
Dang, you're right.
Holy crap, when it switches songs at like 2:00, that's one of the nicest things I've ever heard :O
now that you pointed it out.. awesome transition and straight to best part
David Van Legendary the power sets in. Just wonderful indeed.
Much better and deeper in lyrics too
Are you serious or kidding?
Absolutely, the transition is a masterpiece. And I have little doubt The Verve copied the tune from the Rolling Stones, who had previously copied it from the Staple Singers!
1:57 Luv the transition
Fallon brought me here.
I'm musically retarded, I hear not one bit of The Last Time in this. The whole thing sounds like Bitter Sweet Symphony to me. To my tin ear, those songs have nothing in common. Is this a giant prank on me?
BlueMouse97 wealth dude thats some wealthy sounds
Hell yes. Total goosebumps.
number51oco listen to the real version of "the last time". it sounds a bit different
Justicia ❤
1:55 it's like the 70's skipped the 80's and went straight into the 90's
2:00 te most epic change ever
So, the story goes more or less like this. Back in the day, a gospel group called "The Staple Singers" recorded a traditional folk song called " This May be the Last Time". In the 60´s, The Rolling Stones ripped it off and made a typical Rolling Stone song with more or less the same lyrics called "The Last Time". Soon after, their manager Andrew Loog Oldham assembled a group of musicians to create orchestrated versions of Rolling Stone´s songs, and among those, he asked David Whitaker, an english composer and arranger to create the orchestration for "The Last Time", which he did. This string orchestration is the one we hear in "Bitter Sweet Symphony", the one that The Verb ripped off. The Rolling Stones "original" song has hardly anything to do with this version. They were mediators, they ripped of a song and later sued a band for copyright infridgement on an arrangement the didn´t made from a song that wasn´t originally theirs in the first place. If anyone should ask for copyright is the 19th century anonymous hillbilly/black countryman songwriter or the orchestrator David Whitaker, the rest are full of shit. So, this is the kinda crap copyright bullshit that fucked up today music... I said so.
This has to be one of the smartest things I've ever read about this whole affair.
Well said. The royalties should have been Andrew Oldham's and not fucking Mick Jagger's.
why? He´s the manager, even less relevant. Managers are parasites. I think they were anyway, it was Oldham that made the claim as I recall, not Jagger.
I think most are parasites, I don't know why, but I've always had a hunch that Peter Grant was responsible for Led Zeppelin's "stolen money" incident in 1973.
Exactly, it was a case of greed, the verve got permission to use a sample, even if it was used throughout the song, they had no right to take %100 royalties and songwriting credit when there's no similarities in melody or lyrics in relation to "the last time". If anything, David Whitaker should have gotten %30 for writing the popular melody/motif, the rolling stones/oldham %20, and the verve %50 for original lyrics and melody.
At least the Verve actually made something of it, we would have never heard this awesome compilation had it stayed in the fogarty stones archive.
Gotta hand it to The Verve for hearing the potential.
That transition is heavenly
Not arguing the similarities, but Stones getting 100% of the royalties for all those years is one the worst injustices i've seen in the music world.
I agree, they should've been only getting 90%
They asked to use it. Of course there are similarities.
If that is already past, no one will die for it.
Actually it wasn’t the stones collecting the royalties, it was the record company that had 100% of the rights to the stones “the last time” song…I just wish the stones would’ve been more vocal about the whole issue…
@@sergewangneur it was Allen Klein, not the Stones. He controlled all of their Decca catalog recordings from 63-69. He kept bleeding the Stones dry. So he did the same to The Verve. Klein was the main reason the Beatles broke up. Everyone except for Paul wanted him as their manager and Paul was astute enough to know how shady Klein was. He had a reputation for being a ruthless businessman.
Rolling Stones made a great song but the Verve made one of the best songs ever.
still, they should have credited the Stones for their cover
@@marlboro308 they did... they were given the rights to sample the music, but Jagger saw that The Verve were going to have a smash hit and wanted to take the money and credit. I'm guessing the stones own the Andrew Oldham Orchestra, and it sounds nothing like the original song 'this could be the last time'. Its just been about money for the stones... they've lost my respect
@@marlboro308 but as you can see the stones didn’t make that version it was some composer
This orchestral version doesn't sound much like the RS' song though. It does however sound a lot like the Verve's.
@@christhomas7905 Mick and Keith didn't care, band manager Allen Klein was the only one who made a big deal out of it, it was all him that got the rights taken away from The Verve. Keith is quoted as saying that it was some "serious lawyer shit" and "if The Verve can make a better song, they can keep the money."
I like both version but I think The Verve's version make the Stones's version even more beautiful. In a way, Bittersweet symphony is an improve version of The last time.
The last time sounds horrible but the Verve ❤❤❤ it is so beautiful!
Cuz someone either didn’t know how to play or like the string was out of tune
I used this song for leaving church when I got married. Amazing moment
Odd. Even though the string part is heavenly, the rest of the song is about the hopelessness of life.
@@BeachBoysSummerPartywhy odd? Marries are part of the "hopelessness of life", you need to stick with that and like it, because me nor you know the future. Because this is part of the life. And somewhat, this is the great thing of living!
You will always have to give your best regardless of the rest, and even if it isn't enough, you will have done the best you could, that's excellent.
Imagine the boredom of already knowing what will happen, I couldn't live in a life like that.
So throw yourself into the desolate world of circumstances, play dice with luck, and you will see that those who win are those who struggle.
I wish you a world of goodness
@@BeachBoysSummerParty You've never seen my friend's marriage.
That defines hopelessness.
2:00 is one of the most satisfying things I've ever heard
called a plagiat
@@marlboro308 Nobody cares
@@brunovinicius4194 Unnecessarily rude... I found it interesting.
@@brunovinicius4194 I care
The comments section can tell a lot about this song and the people that listen to it I love it
The combination from Min 1:55 is amazing 😱😱😱😱😱
These songs are the biggest example of Record Companies / Group Managers taking undeserved control over the artists material, Jagger and Richards never agreed with the rights going to them. Good on them for sorting it out!
So it all started over a sample from this Andrew Oldham Orchestra recording of the Rolling Stones' song "The Last Time"......There never actually was an "Andrew Oldham Orchestra" -- Oldham was the Stones manager/producer at the time, & he used his musical connections & studio knowledge to create various side projects under that name. The Verve had successfully negotiated the rights to use a six-note sample of said recording from Decca Records, the recording's copyright holder -- however, they did NOT obtain direct permission from another former Rolling Stones manager Allen Klein, who owned the actual song copyrights. One version of the story is that the Stones & Decca agreed to license a five-note segment in exchange for 50 percent of the royalties, but Klein claimed the Verve voided the agreement by using a SIX-note sample. Although "Bitter Sweet Symphony" had already been released, Klein refused to grant the licence for the sample, as Decca Records had previously done -- This led to a lawsuit with ABKCO Records (Klein's holding company), which was settled out of court. The Verve ended up having to relinquish all royalties to Klein, and the songwriting credits were changed to Jagger/Richards, with Ashcroft receiving just $1,000 for completely relinquishing those rights. Verve bassist Simon Jones said, "We were told it was going to be a 50/50 split, and then they saw how well the record was doing -- They rung up and said we want 100 percent or take it out of the shops....you don't have much choice." Ashcroft sarcastically said, "This is the best song Jagger and Richards have written in 20 years", noting it was their biggest UK hit since "Brown Sugar".
In a 1999 interview, when asked whether he believed the end result was fair, Keith Richards said: "I'm out of whack here, this is serious lawyer shit. If the Verve can write a better song, they can keep the money!" Eventually, Andrew Loog Oldham jumped on the money train as well & sued The Verve after failing to receive the so-called "mechanical royalties" he claimed he was owed. After receiving his royalties, Oldham joked that he bought "a pretty presentable watch strap" compared to the watch Jagger and Richards would get with their money. In a later interview, he said: "As for Richard Ashcroft: well, I don't know how an artist can be severely damaged by that experience. Songwriters have learned to call songs their children, and he thinks he wrote something. He didn't. I hope he's got over it. It takes a while."
In May 2019, Ashcroft received the Ivor Novello Award for Outstanding Contribution to British Music from the British Academy of Songwriters, Composers, and Authors. Ashcroft announced that the dispute was over following negotiations with Klein's son, Jody, and the Rolling Stones' new manager Joyce Smith. Ashcroft thanked Jagger and Richards "for acknowledging me as the writer of a fucking masterpiece!" He added: "As of last month, Mick Jagger and Keith Richards signed over all their publishing for Bittersweet Symphony, which was a truly kind and magnanimous thing for them to do. I never had a personal beef with the Stones. They've always been the greatest rock and roll band in the world. It's been a fantastic development. It's life-affirming in a way."
As far as I know the Verve had permission from the Rolling Stones to use the sample from "The Last Time". The definition of a sample is that a "sample" of an original piece of music can be used in another composition but cannot form the foundation of it or in other words be used from start to finish. This is where the Verve got themselves in trouble. There is no denying it is a crystal clear sample for which permission of use was given so never mind the name calling and cries of plagiarism, the reason the courts ruled against the Verve is because the "sample" runs from start to finish of "Bitter Sweet Symphony".
Probably the toughest lesson learned in music legal history but my God, what a fucking tune!
That is exactly what I said!!!!!
jonesybar Actually, the sample runs from the beginning to the end of Bitter Sweet Symphony. All the way through dude. A sample can't be the foundation of the new song. Get your facts straight bub.
Chris Mann so you are also agreeing with what I said!
jonesybar I know
+jonesybar agreed, they screwed up legally, and it cost them. But, the result is one of my favorite songs
I told you once and I told you twice, it's a bittersweet symphony, that's life.
That's the nicest thing I've heard in a long time.
Me too
This band, The Verve Stones..............they're gonna be big someday.
Who else appreciates the irony that Bittersweet Symphony, which was HUGELY influenced by The Last Time was featured in Cruel Intentions which was HUGELY influenced by Dangerous Liasons?
Actually, Dangerous Liaisons and Cruel Intentions are both based on the same source material; a book published in 1782(!).
@@IllisiaAdams Yes it was.
The verve put the lirycs on this orchestral version of the last .
That lil sample is what makes the Bitter Sweet Symphony amazing💗
I disagree. The string section is what makes the song amazing.
It was all about ego and greed, the stones received royalties they didn't deserve, and after a huge amount of money was made off the verve's version and paid to the stones, they finally agreed to give "future" royalties to the verve, kind of "we have squeezed all the juice out of this orange, you can have it now"
The Stones “sampled” Andrew Oldham Orchestra for their song “The Last time.” (Orchestral version) ✔️
The Verve also “sampled” Andrew Oldham Orchestra for Bittersweet Symphony. ✔️
What the Verve failed to do was “sample“ The Stones “The Last Time.“ ❌
I think the root of the problem is that the Verve did not have adequate music industry legal counsel before publishing, Bittersweet Symphony.
If they had been better represented by a knowledgeable, music attorney, they would’ve realized that it was encompassed in The Stones song The Last Time.
But sampling a song does not give you the rights to the original music. That’s what I don’t get and I think it was wrong. But I’m not a judge, nor am I in the music industry.
I think they got hosed.
But at least this is a well played song so they will get royalties enough to live comfortably, but not like “Rockstars.“
*I can't say how much I love this mix* 💚💛🎶🎶🎹🎹🎵🎵🌹👏👏👏👏
La combinación perfecta cuando se fusionan ambas me hizo explotar 🎶🎵
Imagine they played this together, the verve and Rolling Stones.
LOVED BOTH SONGS. AND I LOVE THE IDEA OF THIS VIDEO MIXING THEM UP
SUCH AN UPGRADE OMFG I LOVE THE VERVE WHEN IT REACHES 2 MIN OMFG CHIILS
Bittersweet symphony all the way
Amo profondamente sia i Fab4
che gli Stones e devo dire che this could be …”The Last One” è uno dei loro pezzi che mi fanno impazzire …. però: grazie a Oldham e soprattutto ad Ascroft per aver insistito, resistito ed avere infine portato alla luce uno dei più bei pezzi di sempre !
Viva il Rock !
.. e bravi Mick & Keith per aver rinunciato ai diritti : questo bellissimo pezzo fa bene anche alla loro grandezza, probabilmente lo hanno capito anche se in ritardo.
the last “time “ scusate
It goes to show how endlessly inspired these artists were in the 60s and 70s.
It was like an alien invasion, but a cool alien invasion.
They wrote it....?????? So obviously they get royalties.
It is a wonderful marriage of the 2 - the Oldham orchestra w/ Bittersweet symphony. the bells are what make it. which are a symphony on their own merit.
Can't believe that in this age of information, there is still so much disinformation out there. The Rolling Stones did not, I repeat, did not sue The Verve. The Stones were not involved in this in any way ! It was ABKCO Music Inc that sued them, based on the recording of "The Last Time" by the Andrew Oldham Orchestra of which they (ABKCO) own the publishing rights. ABKCO owns and controls 100% of the worldwide copyright to the original 1963-1971 publishing catalog of Jagger/Richards Rolling Stones compositions. Sadly, The Verve made a great musical creation by using the sample from the Oldham version , but they paid a heavy price for a small mistake...
Taken from wikipedia: On their song "Bitter Sweet Symphony" the British alternative rock group the Verve sampled the Andrew Oldham Orchestra's version of the Rolling Stones song "The Last Time," the rights to which were owned by ABKCO, and included it on their 1997 album Urban Hymns. The Verve had obtained the rights to sample the recording from Decca but didn't think of getting permission from ABKCO until the album was ready for release by EMI. Realizing that he had the advantage in negotiations, Klein forced Verve vocalist Richard Ashcroft to sell his rights as lyricist to ABKCO for $1,000 and ABKCO became the sole publisher of "Bitter Sweet Symphony."
The song became a hit, popular for use at sporting events, and it was a big money-maker for ABKCO, which licensed its use for commercials advertising Nike shoes and Opel automobiles. Mick Jagger and Keith Richards were nominated for a Grammy for Song of the Year, even though "Bitter Sweet Symphony" bears little resemblance to the Stones' "The Last Time
I'd say NO RESEMBLANCE to The Stones song AT ALL, but the intro was snatched directly from the AOO rendition.
WOw.. what a reliable source... Wikipedia.
exposfan77 Amen
"The Verve made a great musical creation by using the sample from the Oldham version" ...using a Sample? It's basically a polished copy with added lyrics, which are to be honest good but not great. I really don't see the greatness in this last creation phase. Don't get me wrong it IS a great musical creation after all, but it's more like 80% Oldham, 18% Verve and 2% Stones.
But it wasn't sample from the Stones version.
The verve still by far the best and should get full credits to there song 🙏
without that sample at the beginning there would BE no song!
thanks verve for the great work w this sample
Igual,aessa, música, não tem maravilhosa,😊.
Bitter Sweet Symphony é uma linda versão da música original. Ficou até melhor que a música original. Não tem nada de plágio. Os direitos autorais foram concedidos.
Without This, Bittersweet wouldn't exist.
The Staple Sisters are the ones that were ripped.
The sad thing is that nobody remeber about the song of The Staples Singers, ''This May Be The Last Time'', that once was stolen too, but by the Stones...
+Flavia Santos Exactly, I'm thinking that exact thing right now.
+Flavia Santos wtf are you talking about? only the names of these two songs are similar, they dont have same song base
+Roman Výbošťok you are aware the last time has two different recordings right? The first one is from the Stones and it in fact is ripped off. The one playing here was done by the guy who owns the rights to Stones pre 1970s music.
+Flavia Santos The Verve have made a masterpiece you say The Stones are rubbish
There is only the one sentence that is the same, "may be the last time, I don't know", so I think in the Stones song it was more about making reference to the song than stealing it. The whole song sounds nothing like the Staple Singers' song.
I love Rolling Stones but this song is awesome I do not care who sings it!!
Some one should make a movie where a father and son bond over their depression and the son ha bittersweet symphony while the dad has last time and then they combine as they bond more
The Verve incredibly underrated
Uma das músicas mais lindas que eu já ouvi na minha vida
apartir del minuto 2 waoooooo es una de lasejores canciones que he escuchado en mi vida ....sin duda alguna esta cancion en tu auto a todo vpmumen y luego bajas del carro y caminas haciatras locazooooooo
Well done to the stones for the great instrumental then to the verve for 1 ov the best indie songs ever.never tire ov listening to this song.up there with the best imo.
Stones really had nothing much to do with the instrumental--that is Oldham and Whitaker.
Jagger y Richards reciben el dinero pero todo el mundo sabe que este himno es de The Verve.. y eso no lo podrán cambiar jamás
si claro....con la musica de los Stones...ellos la cambiaron...no les da la cabeza para hacer algo por su cuenta!
Los Stones no nesecitan robar el tema..jajaja hicieron algunos no?
Lorena00 que tonto, cómo puedes decir eso ? A eso se le llama plagio. Se les hizo muy fácil cambiar los arreglos y pensaron que pasarían desapercibidos y hacerse famosos a costa de los demás. Afortunadamente los derechos de la canción están a nombre de quien lo merece.
@@sahibzitho que ignorante eres... Se les pidió permiso para arreglarla se llama un Sample... Al ser un Sample de una canción te pertenece .. así que infórmate q en la actualidad los ladrones le han devuelto todos los derechos a El q arreglo mágicamente esa canción claro les peso la conciencia y se arrepintieron ya que el #Daño ya está hecho.
Jajajaja no sabes nada los stones no necesitan recibir plata de este desconocido
Okay, I see little to no connection between the original The Last Time and the orchestral version of The Last Time, and I am listening for it really hard. At best it sounds like a really slow version of the original. I really don't see anybody connecting these two songs together on their own. So...let me get this straight...this Andrew Oldham made a song that was at best inspired by The Last Time (a song that is decent but nothing special), and called it a cover of The Last Time. Then The Verve came along, heard this, and got full rights to it. Then they offered 50/50 royalties to THE ROLLING STONES for their sampling of the orchestral version that is at best tangentially related to The Last Time. Then, when the song became a hit, the Rolling Stones demanded FULL ROYALTIES? I think I officially have deep moral qualms with the Rolling Stones.
remember its not the band its their managers record label etc.
The Rolling Stones didn't demand the full royalties, their former manager Allen Klein did. Klein's ABKCO Industries (now distributed through Universal Music) owns all of the Stones' catalogue along with Andrew Loog Oldham's compositions. He's the one that demanded 100% of the royalties after the song became popular and then furthermore licensed the song to Nike to use in a commercial against both the Verve and the Rolling Stones' wishes. You have to realise the Stones fired Klein as their manager in 1970 and then also went through a nearly 20 year legal dispute with him to buy back their music catalogue because he wasn't paying their royalties as well. At no point did Jagger/Richards ever sought after royalties for Bitter Sweet Symphony. It's one of the greatest misconceptions in music history.
AakwardAardvark it's the band. See what Keith Richards said about the Verve.
Then you're an idiot.
It's understandable that you don't hear it. Most people can't tell, additionally original Rolling Stones song had a bit more of a sped up tempo.
Fantastic!!!!!...
Great transition!!
Thank you, The Rolling Stones! #Inspiration #Influence
Eddie Hall pointed out it was their manager (RS) who came after the Verve. And the melody is very recognizable on all versions.
it also seems "The Savage Resurrection - Someone's Changing" (1968)
What's funny is The Verve Bittersweet Symphony is about how life is a bitch and look what happened to them SMH 😭
shepchri88 It wasn't the Rolling Stones who sue the verve it was Allen Klein who did he owns all of the stuff from 62 68. The Stones had no say
Yeah, but the Stones ended up with all the royalty $ from the song. They have enough money of their own, so you'd think they could be upstanding dudes and give it back to the Verve? Nope.
***** Yeah it's scientifically that all Jews only ever care about money proven isn't it?
Sometimes you have to hurt yourself in order to make the existing world, more beautiful, if you know what i mean ;p
yes
Hurt yourself more if that's true. Make the world a better place!
Hendra Suryadi I now exactly what you mean kinda like no one really loves life untill death is so close by
I know everyone's talking Bittersweet Symphony, but before that does anyone else think it sounds exactly like the Futurama theme song?
Kris true
Kris No, Futurama theme song is, indeed, derived from a famous hit, but it's Pierre Henry's "Psyche Rock", made famous by Fat Boy Slim remix
Kris i always thought it sounded like smells like teen spirit
Futurama theme song is actually itself a copy of Pierre Henry's "Psyche Rock", also from the 1960s!
8 billion different ways to wake up and greet the day your way.
There's no fucking comparison between a cludgy musical oddity and the majesty of Bittersweet Symphony.
I'm not talking about the Stones song, which is great in a different way, but more with the Loong Oldham orchestral version.
The Verve ended up sharing their royalties, as they should have, but BSS a triumph of 90s Britpop, and stunning in any era.
2:03 YAYYYY MY CHILDHOOD BACK ON THIS SONG 💙 😢😢😢😢😢😢 💜
Está muy bonita este musical
Totally the same orchestrated version with their own lyrics. Great song either way. Love the instrumental version as well.
ALB AMEN AND AGREE
I can't say that I met Richard Ashcroft and Liam Gallagher in the middle of Camden High Road all those years ago .. it was about summertime and there was no traffic at all .. these things only happen in Camden Town .. I never met any Stones tho'
The fact that this song is all The Verve is known for tells you everything you need to know. While Andrew Oldham, though not a household name, has the legacy of having been the producer for The Rolling Stones.
"The fact that this song is all The Verve is known for..." Erm, that isn't a fact. Or even a half-truth. The Verve are known for more than this one song. Much more. Do some research.
@@jackdubz4247 @jackdubz4247 I did. In the United States, this is their only song that charted. On their "best of" Vevo playlist on UA-cam, this song has more than 9 times the views of any other song listed. Apart from music aficionados, this is the only The Verve song that the average person can name.....I'm willing to bet you that, though I haven't actually gone out into the field to poll people. It's a brilliant song, but when I first heard the Oldham Orchestra version of The Last Time, I shat a brick. It was the entire skeleton of Bitter Sweet Symphony, as well as some of the organs.
everyone who says the Verve "didnt make a penny from it" you are wrong. This song brought them a level of success they didnt have previously im sure they made some good money from the myriad of concerts they have been able to play and the fame they have parlayed since this. They should be thankfull because honestly they just straight up stole this and sung over top of it.
The verve!! Oh the verve not the Rolling Stome please!! God bless you!!
This is so good
se for escutar Last Time esperando ouvir Bitter sweet, vai achar pouca semelhança. Pq na real eles pegaram Last Time na versão instrumental.... daí sim, dá pra ouvir q é parecido.
Exatamente, o instrumental é parecido mesmo.
Si vas a plagiar, tiene que ser para hacer algo mucho mejor a lo ya hecho.... Y The Verve lo hizo de sobremanera!!
Bitterweet Symphony top 10 de las mejores composiciones de la historia.
few comments here about The Staple Singers "This May Be The Last Time" from which Roling Stones take a healthy chunky sample of tune and unashamedly just use the original lyrics and title no problem. The total result is a big musical jump but may warrant a mention to the staples but in those days this kind of building on the works of the black american singers was very common and almost no one ever bothered to recognise. Again the Verve really did something way beyond in a radically different direction than the original it is hard to believe more than a nod to the original sample source is needed. Potty. Seems whoever got the most expensive lawyers win.
blanca roca Exactly. I’m glad you brought this up and I bet you The Rolling Stones didn’t pay a dime to them.
the andrew loog edition is all the money, orchestration magnifique
S*** the collaboration sounds awesome!!!
Mick Jagger y Keith Richard hicieron lo correcto, regresaron los derechos a Richard Ashcrofth. No estaba en manos de los Stones desde un inicio hacerlo, porque Allen Klein tenía los derechos de la canción. Es quizá la mejor canción de los 90's.
O the verve ganhou os direitos autorais hoje uuu 🎸
Como assim, matheus??
2:00 is when the song starts ;)
The stones gave kd land a cut when someone pointed out that 'anybody seen my baby' sounded like 'constant craving' so fair play to them for that
the case was a nightmare for all the parties involved, but in the end it was generous of Jagger/Richards towards Ashcroft.
Everyone stop arguing. Rolling Stones made the song, the Verve enhanced it.
+Bella Luna It was Andrew Oldham not the Stones, listen to the original The Last Time, it's nothing like this.
+leonardo h Is based on a Symphonic versión of the Rolling Stones The Last Time.
Pedro Hereira I know... but listen to the original and then listen to Oldham's version. Totally different.
Doesn't matter if it sounds different, it's a symphonic version of a riff that was written by Keith Richards and that symphonic version was used in The Verve's song, but it is still Richards' riff.
+Bella Luna and NIKE wins. Verve lost all rights to this, sadly. but yes, well said.
Superou...🎉
Man, you just did the perfect mix here. Congrats !
The Verve made a rather fair song into a great song. Listen to the Bittersweet Symphony at the BBC and the stones never did anything that good. Never ever. They simply are more talented when it came to that style of sound.
this Song (the Verve) is a F*cking Master Piece!
If we can send the verve back to the 60's, rolling stone will be the third best band, not the second anymore.
at 2:00 i thought i was entering heaven
Cedar Flags oh god i'm so happy to see a coaster enthusiast here!
👼
Love this
ADifferentSam: bonita version the last time.Me gusta FELICIDADES.
that pitch correction to concert pitch goes wild
Play 1:41 at 0.75 playback speed you can see how the verve copied them
H. D. They *DID NOT COPY THEM YOU FOOL*
Awesome song, Manc toe-gazing at its best...(PS...I know Richard Ashcroft is from Wigan but I'm claiming him)
2:00
They were my drug 😊❤
Everyone keeps mentioning the Rolling Stones, but this version of 'The Last Time' is an almost completely different arrangement by the Andrew Oldham Orchestra. Sure, Bitter Sweet Symphony didn't really rip off anything from the Stones, but you can't seriously believe that their song is any different from the main bit of this version of the last time. They essentially added lyrics to it and called it a day (not that that is necessarily all that bad) . It's the same even down to the beat.
If u put the video on 1.25 its more obviusly
Yes Allen Klein the gift that kept screwing everyone!!
Oasis also copied “my sweet lord” by George Harrison with their “supersonic”. Also with “cigarettes and alcohol” with “bang a gong”, and “don’t look back in anger” with “imagine”.
The rolling stones is my new shit