Where to Buy Your Watch - Authorized Dealer vs Grey Market - Episode 16
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- In this episode of Federico Talks Watches I discuss the differences and pros/cons of authorized watch dealers and grey market dealers. Differences in the quality of stock, warranty and service. Take a look to help you decide where you should buy your next luxury watch from.
Contact: federicowatches@gmail.com
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Just do the math. If the savings you get by purchasing from the grey market is worth more than a warranty, go for it. I once bought a grey market watch for $1900 less than you could get it from an AD. This particular watch costs about $700 to service at the factory, so even if it hard turned out to be old stock that needed servicing right away (which I knew it wasn't because I bought it in 2011 and the model fist came out in 2007) I could have had it factory serviced and would have still come out $1200 ahead.
Grey market is not any kind of evil thing, as long as they are honest about the product they are selling. The watch companies just want you to think the grey market is evil in order to help ADs sell watches at the huge markup.
q
Yes, good advice,
as long you know the price & specs you can be ahead
Great advice Federico, I've used grey market dealers for low priced watches where the risk is negligible and have so far had no problems. If I was buying a high end luxury brand I would go ad everything, not just for the warranty but also the whole buying experience.
If the warranty card was stamped by an AD, which some watches from grey market dealers do, the watch will still come with factory warranty. Also, your point on new old stock may also apply to buying from an AD. The AD could very well have old stock too.
Great topic for a video.
For me, AD or grey market comes down to if the price difference between an AD and grey market dealer is good enough to give up the additional security of the AD. This is a personal choice and would be different for each buyer but giving watch buyer the information that they need to make an informed decision is exactly what is needed and what you've achieved.
I couldn't imagine, there would be that many points to consider. From my experience, it depends on the item you are looking for. Sometimes the item is hard to find in used condition at all. Plus I have to add: when I can afford the regular price, I would buy at an AD or even a branch of the manufacturer. The experience is one of a kind, plus branches of manufacturers like Cartier and others also have an unbelievable interior and extraordinary personnel. You will always remember that you bought an item there.
Nice video. I hope your advice will save somebody from being very dissapointed with a purchase from a grey market dealer.
Hi Fed - I agree, buy from an AD whenever possible. With every great deal on the grey market comes a great risk. It's the call of the individual after doing the research. Cheers!
This a a subject I have been wondering about so you've posted at the right time. Your views on this subject are particularly valid being in the industry. Keep it up Fed👍
you also know when you are dealing with a gray market jewelry store when the watches do not have that protective cover and special control sticker on the back case, you can get a good deal, especially if you pay in cash- but when it comes to servicing...you are on your own.
Great video. About the watches sitting around, I have seen that in Authorized dealers as well.
In the uk some grey market dealers come with manufacturers warranty because they source watches from ad in Europe that have stamped the warranty card. Sometimes the warranty might be slightly run down of the grey market seller has had the watch on the shelf for a while
Federico , very informative video. Two other point worth discussing: used watch distributor (truefacet, real real) and former owners. Does a warranty transfer from primary to secondary owners? Continue the great effort.
Very informative. Just subscribed. Thanks Frederico!
Another great vid, really enjoying how you speak about watches. There is no one on youtube that I know that are so good at explaining watch related things as you. Really great work Federico!
Cheers from Sweden.
+Felix Johansson
Wow felix, thank you so much my friend! Quite a compliment!
+Federico I Passion and knowledge is a winning combination.
I would say in your watch reviews it would help to have pictures of the watch occasionally on the screen whilst you talk about them rather than just a close up video at the end.
appreciate your straight forward approach!
Excellent information on the workings of the grey market. Definately food for thought...
Federico, thank you for sharing this information on grey market dealers.... Did NOT know all this, and it is good to know!
Hi mr Federico !!Congratulations for your broadcast!Whats your opinion on buying from duty free shops?Do they belong to authorised or grey market dealers?
Great episode Federico, I totally agree with what you said, however sometimes the killer deals found in grey market are so tempting..
Also is there a way to validate if the warranty card is actually void or not? and will I receive any negative reaction from the AD if it turned out that the warranty is not true?
Extremely valuable information thank god for people like you 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Grey market dealers in the uk generally advertise full international warranty. Generally sourced from ad in Spain or Italy . I have bought several and the warranty is stamped and signed from the authorised dealer before being forwarded to the grey market dealer.. Would presume these are therefore valid. Great video again Federico..
can you name some of these dealers? Thank you
Federico,
I love the channel and appreciate your experience and insight!
Please keep them coming sir!
All the best,
Scott in Charlotte
Great video as always. The vids you put up are always informative and the duration is just nice like a short cartoon in between TV shows. TGV's vids are a little lengthy (not that its bad or anything). Anyways I always look forward to an email regarding a new vid from your channel. Keep it up man.
Great video for people new to watch collecting!
Excellent video my friend. With your experience I'd like to see a video on negotiation tactics with ADs. Keep them coming.
Yes I will check at TGV but if it comes to profound expertise knowledge I listen to you. Don't take me for wrong, I "love" TGW, it's so much fun, it really really is and he is such a great person. But do you know how fantastic YOU are? Can't thank you enough that you share your knowlage with us.
Thanks Federico. Good video. How about a video explaining the best way to sell a watch for those of us, like myself, who are new to collecting. Also, could you tell us the safest places to find quality used watches. Thanks for what you are doing! Cheers!
Thanks for clarifying that ! Excellent video ! Keep up the good work !
Hey Im relatively new to the hobby and just purchased a Tissot off ebay. Brand new and after about a week it wasnt working properly. The guy who sold it to me(100% feedback) told me he got it from an AD, even sent me the receipt, and now its on its way back to Tissot. Any chance that they wont honor the receipt? (The warranty card was NOT filled out) If it does not work ebay actually has a very good return policy that I'll have to exercise if Tissot does not do it for free.
BTW love the videos, i try to watch all of them but like I said I recently took an interest in watches and there is alot to take in.
Thank you for the info! After seeing the comment I called Tissot for an update on the repair and they said it was approved! I'm glad im able to stop worrying about it now.
william alexander what kind of Tissot? And what happened to it
Thanks Federico and great topic and video. It's good to hear your perspective on it.
Awesome video Fredrico, glad to hear your straightforward thoughts on this significant topic. Especially from your past perspective
Great video. Keep them coming.
What about warranty expired used watch? Do you prefer these to grey market? But the warrant other than proving authenticity really don't mean a thing to older used watches
Dylan L good point
Good video. But buying carefully from a good gray market gets you access to used and discontinued models at large discounts. Factory Warranty? Well yes but...there's only a very tiny chance you'll need it if you bought well. Then there's the whole issue of service at the AD or brand service center. Rolex bloody well does what they want rather than what you want. You didn't want your vintage dial replaced? Oops. Too bad. And you don't even get it back. (Omega at least gives you your parts back.) I have bought AD and gray market. I've always felt better with the GM experience and the best of them will even do your service, your way, and a third (or more) less expensive than the brand will do. Still, you raise good points and I'm enjoying your channel.
Marc Goldberg, Marc do you mind Sharing what grey market dealer you have used? I’m interested in new Omega.
1. I'm always upfront from the start and state that I am just looking. 2. I always tell them that I understand retail and that if a serious customer shows up I have no problem with them moving on while I discretely stay out of the way. 3. If I ask about the price, I only ask for the full MSRP to confirm that it is the model that I asked to see unless I am actually buying something. I'm there to learn about the specific watch I came to see, not sharpen my negotiating skills.
Very interesting video, I found this informative. So many myths about there about grey market dealers. Cheers.
+Bob FromBrisbane
Glad you got something out of it Bob!
There are some excellent private grey market/pre owned dealers out there just do your research and do a lot of it if you are a new to the watch game.
+treblarefils Are these online? Looking to purchase a Rolex Yachtmaster and Omega Speedmaster
+jj reddick look for local jewelry stores and build a relationship, there not going anywhere , id steer clear of ebay,online, ect.
Just how much can you get off a Rolex, Breitling and Panerai? What percentage are these AD's allowed to take off the retail price? This could be interesting to make a good deal. Great video, with good explanation.
Another great video, Federico. Keep up the good work!
+Nicholas Rini
Cheers man!
You should do a video of AD vs grey market vs vintage/used, curious to hear your opinions. Great video!
Just a word of thx, Really appreciate the informative videos,
Great video. Are there specific grey market dealers that you recommend? Also do you get paperwork with the watch from a grey market dealer and not the factory warranty I understand.
So, the jewelry stores offering close-out deals and selling to grey market dealers, get their stock directly from the brand?
Great video, I spoke to a GMD in the UK and they assured me that I would receive a fully stamped warranty (omega) not a GMD dealer, they said it would be stamped by the shop they buy the watch from. Does that sound possible?
thank you very much for the info. were confused about the difference 👍
Hi Federico, would I be registered as the owner when I purchased Rolex watch in the grey market dealer? May I know how the process work as I understand grey market dealer should purchased from the AD right? And AD by right should registered the purchaser as the owner? Thank you.
could you do a vid on how you got in to working in the watch industry and like stuff evolving around it. Like what you studied or so. and brands you worked for (maybe whisper the percentage you get off when working in an official store)
+Thomas k
Lol... I will definitely make a video on that at some point... I will wait for a special occasion though,,,
Many manufacturers don't try real hard to police grey market dealers by choice. They turn a blind eye intentionally since the grey market helps them sell more of their products which equates to more money added to their bottom line.
carbonking53 absolutely 100% said
Excellent job Frederick 👌🏽
great info.. keep it up Frederico
love your chanel, you talk about things that matter no bs, salud
When you buy a precious metal Rolex, for example, a gray can save you many thousands of dollars. Great video once again.
Just Subscribed. Great video. What kind of discounts can you get from AD (Roles, Omega)?
Great Vid Federico! What's your take on Jomashop?
They seem solid... Prices are a bit high though...
+Federico I what grey market shop had good prices? I've purchased from ADs but I want to make sure I'm not losing money either. thanks.
Federico, many thanks for this video! What happens to the factory warranty if an AD who needs money sells a few watches to a grey market dealer at a big discount? Does the grey market dealer purchase the watches with factory warranty and can he pass any remaining warranty on to the consumer? Many thanks, love your videos!
Just hit the sub button. One thing great about being in LA, is that one can do well in dealing with certain authorized dealers, usually the three Asian prestige stores in San Gabriel Valley. Looking at up to 30% off on luxury pieces if the planets are aligned.
Always wondered how the greys got their stock. Question though: I've tried buying grey before, but have the watch arrive from an AD, filled in varranty and all. You look up the AD store, and see them selling the watch for retail, or close. How does that work then? Great vid, thanks Federico :)
Really like your videos. Good work!
One comment Federico... Some grey market dealers, on certain brands, give you the brand warranty. I'm not mentioning who, or what brands... But a few big grey market dealers can, in fact, give the warranty through the AD they get the watches from.
Really enjoying your channel keep it up!!!
Good information, thanks for sharing. I am coming to NYC this month, what would you say is the best watch shops in the city?
+MrMuttonhollow
Best shop in the city is Wempe on 5 Ave... Best store in the country!
another reason why a watch could land or is traded on the grey market is, that a authorized dealer of a brand needs to reach his turnover-goals they stipulated with the manufacturer. here in switzerland that happend pretty often during the last year as of the strenght of the swiss franc we didnt have that much tourists (which bought luxurywatches as souveniers)...
Very interesting. Thank you.
I really like your presentations.....Ill bet you were a very good sales person.
+celestialfix
I wasn't bad ;)
+Federico I they should put you in charge of Wempe on Fifth Ave or something.
+celestialfix
I used to work there ;)
Once again very informative. Thank you!
Federico, what do you think about Creation Watches? Do you have any experience with them?
Frederico I'm heading to London and NY in july and I'm looking for a datejust (two tone) stainless and gold with a white dial. Could you tell me where to go in this locations in order to acquire this model in a good condition (with the box papers and that kind of thing. Thanks in advance and keep up with the videos. You're doing a fantastic job and you got a new subscriber.
Great Video - i really appreciate your work!
Federico, will a Brand ever deny service of a grey market watch, even though you will pay for the service?
They shouldn't... They may deny service if it has been tampered with though...
Hey federico, can you recommend any AD's / grey market dealers you've worked with? and tips on how to get the best deal? thanks in advance!
What is the best online grey market dealers that you trust to purchase from online? Rolex and Omega
Hey Federico,
Great info man, but please invest in an Ikea light and a microphone. I think it would give your video quality a huge boost.
Looking forward to the next video.
+RD0519
Cheers RD... I definitely need a light... However, I am using a basic Lavalier mic in the past 2 or 3 videos... Is the audio that bad?
+Federico I Use Yeti mic :) Most UA-camrs use it :) Check it out :)
+Federico I i usually watch some tech review channels and they seem to have incredible audio (look up mkbhd). Not sure what they're doing though.
I remember in a past video that the background of your white wall was changing as clouds passed by your window. 50 shades of gray... :)
anyhow for a months time youve got incredible quality.
Pls consider reviewing some good and bad GM's and AD's in the next vid.
Great video and nice shirt big boi
I have two watches that I bought from gray market suppliers. One is a Tissot automatic that I bought from Jomashop, and never had any problems with. More recently, I bought a Baum & Mercier Capeland Chronograph from Authentic Watches. I dropped the watch, and later on it stopped working, so I had to send it back for service. Authentic Watches was very responsive and easy to deal with, but I haven’t received the watch back as yet, so I don’t know the end of the story until I receive it and get billed. Fingers crossed! 😔
did you get your B&M watch back yet?
Matt Domingo
Thanks for asking. Yes I did, a few weeks ago, much earlier than had projected. Total time away was 10 wks, which I am told is very good. Also, no charge, fixed under Authentic Watches warrantee!😃
Itsalgud1 thx for sharing! so you would recommend buying from Auth Watches.com?
Matt Domingo
I doubt very much I could have done better through an A.D., so absolutely yes, I highly recommend them.👍
Also, I did check their rratingthrough resellerratingratings.com before I bought from them, and they have a very good rating there.
@@itsalgud1459 do You have the Original paperwork of watches You buy at a grey market Dealer?
Would You be able to sell them on eBay to other people?
Actually it doesnt matter if you buy from grey market dealer as long as you know how to analyze and check the watch based on my experience i still enjoy and uses the watches on that shops.
Great info 👍🏽
I'm buying only from grey market. Would never pay retail from authorized, that's just crazy for me.
Tom Saint
Who do/don't you recommend when it comes to gray market, have you had any issues returning the item; if so how was it solved and was it to your satisfaction.
Thank you
Any recommended greys?
Bobby Corazzini
Try authenticwatches.com
They're one of the most trusted gray market websites. I'm planning to get a watch there soon.
@John Doe so basically to like to collect timepieces is a mental illness ? And the number that you proposed is no more than 3 watches. And how you get to that magic number of 3 ??? I am curious. Do you normally think that to have more “3”s of anything is also a sign of mental illness too according to you ? Or you apply this formula only to watches ? ....so having more than three shirts ; or 3 pairs or shoes or more than 3 different types of belts is also a sign of mental illness too ? have occurred to you that perhaps ppl who like to collect watches don’t do it because of what a watch does but because of what a watch is ? Is not because it gives time, but because is a machine in miniatura that relies in mechanical principles , with precision and constancy. Is a constant moving Marvel. There’s history, art and science in it that you don’t seems to understand nor appreciate. . Sorry sir, but your argument sounds purely pragmatic, which quite honestly many ppl aren’t moved by purely pragmatic stoic reasonings at all. Life is more richer than ones and zeros.
Tom Saint I recently bought 2 pieces. They retail for $595 ea. I paid $240 ea. Less than the retail cost for TWO. By almost $100
One note I want to make is how can you in the shop identify that it is a real AD? Or is it a matter of going to the brand website and check their AD list?
go to brand website, they list all of their certified dealers, rolex.com breitling.com ect.
It depends on the discount doesn't it. How much would you want an AD to give you off a new Omega Federico?
generally most ads dont discount
Excellent Video!
brilliant information,thank you..
Great vid - any tips on getting s discount from a AD ?
Quality video as usual!
+Reinhard Blade
Cheers!
I think it really depends on what the watch is and how good the discount is. If it's an easy to service watch(basic ETA movement or similar) with a great discount on the grey market(let's say 30 or more percent off), then I'd go grey market. If it has an in house movement(not quite as low of service cost) with a low grey market discount, then buy from an AD. Basically, is the discount high enough that if service was needed, it would still be cheaper than going to an AD. Just my $0.02
+redbird963
I think that is a solid philosophy...
+redbird963 I think your spot-on, would never buy a high end watch with an in-house movement from a GREY dealer. I´ve purchased many swiss watches on the GREY market ... ALL ! ALL with ETA ! another great vid Federico ! grazie mile !
Costco is a great grey market dealer. Brick and mortar stores plus, a better warrantee than most manufacturers.
my thought exactly. though they recently have tamed their selection to the middle of the road timepieces from Breitling, omega, and tag
Excellent point and Costco return policy is unmatched
Will the manufacturer service a watch if bought off grey market? I had an Oris AD tell me Oris will not even service a grey market watch even if you want to pay.
+Michael Breder
If it is 100% original and unmodified then yes if you pay they will service it...
Another great video Federico. Going grey market can save you around 5-10% but, as you stated, most of the big brands will not honor warranties if a watch sale was not completed at an AD. This places an extremely heavy risk on the buyer, not only given the possiblity of buying a fake watch, but also the unexpected chance that their watch will need to be repaired within its first 2-5 years of ownership. At an AD, you are guaranteed the factory warranty + extended dealer warranty. Repair costs for a modern Rolex start at $600-700 - a problematic grey market watch can end up costing owners hundreds and thousands of dollars to fix, therefore offsetting any initial savings from buying grey market. Not to mention the headaches, no-return policy, and zero recourse buyers must deal with when it comes to private and grey market sellers.
Finally, if youre wanting to get your hands on a new or limited edition model, the only guaranteed way is through AD. Support your local businesses and buy AD! you might even get some bonus concierge perks from it :)
+junkmonkey54
Well said Sir!
+junkmonkey54 "Going grey market can save you around 5-10%" -- Try 30-40%.
+mountainhobo Sure, I've even seen up to 50% on pre-owned watches from certain brands and certain models that don't hold any value. But not on brand new never worn fully warrantied pieces.
If you're fine with buying pre-owned, such as a 5 -10 year old Rolex, you could probably save anywhere from 20-30% off. Go make yourself proud bud :)
junkmonkey54 Who's talking about Rolex? I am talking about basic Swiss (Tissot, Mido) to mid-tier (Oris, etc). You can easily score 30% off AD price on brand new items, maybe more.
+mountainhobo lol everyone's talking about Rolex cuz that's the only mid tier Swiss that holds value
Thanks for the info watch-Yoda!
I only buy a Rolex from a AD. as for other brand grey market. jomashop is a place I bought from before.
datsunmadman
Did you had good experience and outcome when it came to shopping at jomashope and did have any issue with your purchased, if so how was it solved when it came to your purchase from them.
Also what brand did you purchases from them and what brands you don't recommend buying from them.
Thanks
Honestly have never heard something so wrong in my life. How much is a 126600 at an AD? $11,350. How much can I sell the 126600 for today? $13k and above. Next example, new sub AD $8550, I can sell for 9k right now. And on and on and on. WTF are you talking about. Lazy pisses me off.
@@BLdontM depends on the model. You buy a submariner or gmt from an Ad you can make money off of it.
Another good video.
Great advice. Thank you, Federico. And 40% margin sounds interesting... ;)
I feel a little sorry for the AD these days. They tie up enormous amounts of their cash. Maintain high rent locations. Pay lots of professional personnel. Often have a master brand certified watchmaker to pay. Yikes. 40% sounds high until you think of how much of an investment they have to make and the risk this entails. Still, I think they serve the retail market rather than the collector market. Retail customers are more likely to pay that margin in return for peace of mind. But they can needlessly pass through the arse for it.
Warranty follows the watch.
Is a store that sells multiple brands considered greymarket?
How can you tell if a store is a real authorized dealer? (one way is to check on the watch maker's website and see if they promote the dealer?).
+Antoine Thisdale
The vast majority of ADs sell multiple brands of watches. If you ask the shop if they are an AD for brand "XYZ" they should tell you the truth but the best way is to go onto the watch brand's website and search for shops in your country.
are warranties from an AD transferable? if I buy a watch used and they have a receipt, does the manufacturer honor the warranty?
Jim Lee yes
Amazing information, Federico. Thanks! Say, do you know anything about watch auctions? My feeling is that it is even riskier than the grey market. Ah, what do I know... :-)
Very informative.
Frederico would you be able to name the dishonest grey market shop that refurbish used watches and sell as "new"?
In your view, is Jomashop a relatively trustworthy grey market shop?
90% of grey market places do it... And "relatively" is relative lol... I wouldn't buy anything from them...
Fantastic channel Federico . Nice to hear great advice from someone who has been inside the business. Really enjoyed your video about servicing and the pros or cons of the grey market. I have just subscribed.
i am thinking of a datejust. a dealer near me is offering 3-10% discount. he is an ad. good deal?
What city are you in ? ... I think you can do better...
The watches, that I have checked out (various Reverso models), are quite expensive even when they are 10 years old and unworn (if that is the case). Models from the actual season might be cheaper than the ones bought at an AD, but for me, that is not a reason to choose a grey market dealer. I would rather wait a couple of months, put the price difference on the side and go to an Authorized Dealer to purchase the watch of my dreams. This is something I will never forget. Greeted by a sales representative of an AD of the brand, enjoying an espresso or another beverage, let the sales rep. explain the watch and the handling and of course paying it, did make my day and will again by buying my next object of desire (so to speak). Plus, at the AD, the bracelet or the leather strap can be fitted. However, if you are looking for a watch, that isn‘t in the catalogue, one can buy an older version for a good deal on the grey market. In case, as Federico has pointed out, you have a good feeling with the grey market dealer.