Did Jesus Exist? A Doubter's Guide to Historical Evidence Outside the Bible
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- Опубліковано 15 бер 2021
- apologeticsguy.... Did Jesus of Nazareth really exist? In this full length presentation, I discuss the historical evidence for Jesus outside the Bible, focusing on the Greco-Roman Evidence and the debate surrounding the Josephus passage. Stay to the end, because I also demonstrate how Jesus' Virgin Birth and his Crucifixion were not copied from other religions.
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🤔 Question of the day: What would YOU say is the best evidence for the historicity of Jesus? Let me know in the comments. ⬇️ ⬇️ ⬇️
Literally the best presentation on the historicity of Jesus i ever heard. I understand the topic so much more clearly nowm thanks so much!
Glad you found this! I think you might like my presentation on the historicity of Jesus' divine claims as well. ua-cam.com/video/yEqBm58Z13k/v-deo.htmlsi=2KOHmewBS7rZtg5u
@@apologeticsguy Just now saw your reply. Bout to check the link you sent, thanks brother!
The writing of Justin Martyr, Ignacious of Antioch, Clement of Rome are not in the Bible, but they were contemporaries of some of the Apostles and their first followers. They wrote extensively about Jesus.
Great point. These authors certainly contribute to the data we need to consider when looking at sources outside the Bible.
@@apologeticsguy ,and they proudly died as did all the apostles but John and many other early Christian in some of the most gruesome way never wavering in their proclamation of Christ crucified and rising from the dead.
@@jeffridder1221 Amen
what someone wrote bout jesus is not any kind of evidence. Why do you give a hit whether or not the chap existed or not?you don't care whether or not Mane existed, or whether or no Sidatha existed-what does it matter? none are matters that you can verify for yourself.
Gorget christianity , it is extinct, and there are no christians.
@@vhawk1951kl I touch on this at the beginning of my talk. How can you say "there are no Christians" when 33% of the world identifies as Christian? BTW, you're reading a note from a Christian right now!
Besides this informative and valuable presentation, the other fascinating thing is that you answered everybody who has made a comment here!! Impressive.
Yes, I do try to respond to most people who take the time to engage with my content. I appreciate you watching and noticing that!
Watching these videos is incredibly helpful to me as a person studying conformation bias.
It's important to be aware of one's horizon and submit theories to unsympathetic experts in order to reduce confirmation bias. What did you think about the presentation?
northstreet13- I'm curious as to whether or not you identify any confirmation bias in yourself.
I'm interested in CB in the study of the so-called " Jewish question "
I enjoyed the content it was very well done. All too often when one tries to research the topic of an historical Jesus the videos are vague and leave a lot to be desired.
Thanks for watching and letting me know. Glad you found this presentation!
When I read the gospels I always have the thought 'Who would make this stuff up?' I mean really. For example, the story of Jesus's garment being touched by that woman with menstrual problems. Nobody would even think of making that up!!! This is one of my arguments anyway....if Jesus was fictional, the stories would be more 'normal'. Thanks for this video 🥰🙏
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
This is actually a great point..I hadn't thought of this before
Why do you bother with the gospels at all little bigot?
I really loved your presentation, Jay Smith in one of his presentations has an individual by the name of Phallus I believe? In Greece, a few years after the crucifixion, talking with somebody else whose name I can’t remember about the earth going pitch black just after the event happened. Do you know anything about it?
Thanks, Taffo. You're thinking of the Roman historian Thallus, who wrote about a solar eclipse happening at the time of Jesus' death.
I came across this out of the blue. I am less than 6 minutes in. Which case are you referring to in California? Cases such as those are public record and nothing is showing up. Do you have a case number?
No. It was at Los Angeles County Superior Court in Norwalk sometime between 2000 and 2003.
"All things are similar if you ignore the differences." I'm going to remember this! I love it!
Yes! I love that, too. I actually got it from a guy named Win Corduan. He said it during a conversation we had on Facebook. Thanks for watching and commenting here!
I'm going to put it in a poster in my Sunday school class. I have teens. They are facing a lunatic world. Please pray for all our youth, in church and outside the church.
Hi, Mikel, that's a great video! I like it. I had just heard about Josephus, but never the other folks! God bless you!
Hello, I am glad I found you on my walk. I would say that the evidence is my changed life
So glad you found my channel. Thanks, Kathy!
Amen Kathy! I can say the same for myself.
This is a powerful lecture! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching, Derek. I appreciate your encouragement! Keep the faith, brother!
A worth to save video to be better equipped. Thanks much
You're welcome. Glad you can save this for future reference. Please share it with someone who needs to see this!
I am having doubts as a born again Christian. I believe it’s spiritual warfare after falling into sexual immorality. The devil can get a foothold due to that kind of sin. I never had doubts before. I hope he didn’t harden my heart.
Jesus is my ultimate treasure 🥰🥰🥰
You are not alone, sister. Wrestling with our doubts can be a part of healthy spiritual growth. I hope this video was helpful to you in some way. Let me know if you have any specific questions!
@@apologeticsguy thank you so much 😊
And also don’t give the devil more credit than he is due. No sexual immorality can separate you from the love of Christ.
And be patient with yourself and allow God to introduce/reintroduce Himself to you. I grew up in a non-trinitarian evangelical cult, and it took me a few years of deconstruction before I was sure of my faith in Christ again.
Of course my precious bro/ sis who answered your OWN QUESTION!!!
@@driventoaccount3276 What do you think about the historical evidence I presented for the existence of Jesus?
I really enjoyed your matter-of-fact presentation. So many apologists, try to 'convince', whereas you have just shown the evidence available, not only for the historical Jesus, but also what even his critics said of him. I like your comment, 'It's in the Bible because it is true!' This is a more acceptable statement for non-believers than 'If it is in the Bible it must be true'. That is such a barrier for so many people these days. Thank you.
what is the difference between jesus simpliciter and your famous"he historical Jesus"? the " historical adds what
You have no idea on either score? That you will demonstrate.
@@vhawk1951kl If by "jesus simpliciter" you mean "the real Jesus," this refers to the real human being who did things that we have no evidence for (like having breakfast with his parents as a boy). When we say the "historical Jesus," we mean only the Jesus that can be reconstructed using standard historical methods, without appealing to the doctrine of inspiration. This is distinguished from "the Christ of faith" which is the Biblical portrait of Jesus arising from the final text of Scripture usually preached in churches.
What is the best evidence of jesus’ resurrection?
"Best" is difficult to say, since persuasion is always person-relative. The existence of Christianity is a potential contender, as is the conversion of Paul and the early preaching of the resurrection appearances. What might you say is the best evidence?
@@apologeticsguy that’s like saying the existence of the Jewish faith proves Iesus is not the messiah, referencing ALL messianic prophecies in the Hebrew Bible - they’re right. All of the documentation outside of the Bible is written by historians far after Cristos’ supposed death. There are no documented events that reflect the extraordinary claims in the Christian Bible. What about the false prophecy of Cristos’ return, attributed to Cristos?
Mathew 16:28
Deuteronomy 18:15-20
Was Cristos a false prophet? A liar? Or did he even exist? Or was he just a regular man who was mythologized posssing some of the same attributes as savior gods in earlier mythology?
MY SALVATION, MY CHANGED LIFE, PEACE, LOVE, JOY, HOPE...THE SPIRITUAL GIFTS...SPEAKING IN TONGUES, JUST GOING FROM PROSTITUTION, HEROIN ADDICTIONS, EVIL HEARTED SELFISHNESS, PRACTICING MARTIAL ARTS TIL RECEIVING BLACK BELT, GOING TO MA INTERNATIONALS AND LIVING WITH HATE. NOW? THO HUSBAND, MOM ALL MY FAMILY DYING AND BEING BROKE DOWN AND SHOULD OF DIED.. JESUS RESCUED ME!!
@@danielolley5949 Awesome!
@@danielolley5949 Amen in Jesus’ name! To God be the glory!
This was outstanding Mikel? great job!
Thanks! Glad you got to see it.
I'm from Guam. I just found this video because I wanted to strengthen my faith. Thank you for sharing this.
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching and letting me know!
@Samuel Roberto
Håfa Adai & blessings to you from Dededo! May your faith grow more & more as you spend more & more time in the Word of Christ.
💕🙏🌴🇬🇺🇺🇸
Fantastic lecture, do you have an email I can reach you on?
Thanks. Please use the contact link in my bio.
This is very informative. Thank you Dr.Mikel. God Bless you!!
You’re welcome. Glad you your found this informative!
Thank you so much, Mikel! Sharing this on my blog... 1 Peter 3:15! Happy Thanksgiving from my family to yours!
You're welcome, Meridith. Thanks so much for sharing it. Happy Thanksgiving to you, too! 😃
Awesome talk. Thank you so much. I will be checking out the rest of your material. This is VERY needed right now.
You're welcome! I appreciate you letting me know if was helpful to you. 😃
What does it mater whther the chap existed or not and if it matters or signifies, *W- h-y* does it matter when the way of jesus is effectively extinct, and what is called christianity is no more than a niche interest or obscure hobby, ther being no what used to be called christians?
@@vhawk1951kl it matters very much because Jesus is still changing people's lives for the better. I'm one of many. Do you know of anyone who has the power to completely change someone's entire life?
@@Mediamessengers Jesus is*D-e-a-d* sunshine.
@@vhawk1951kl even if you are right (I disagree obviously) there was something EXTREMELY SPECIAL about Him that over 2,000 years after he walked the earth, 1/3 of the world worships Him, more books, songs monuments were created to venerate this man. Someone VERY special indeed.
Thank you, Dr. Del R, for your scholarly testimony about the existence of Jesus, a slap on Dr. Carrier on his insistence that Jesus was a myth, clearly ignoring or brushing aside the same evidence he also knew and read about, just to sell his books
knowing people love controversy.
You’re welcome. One thing I’ve learned over the years is that persuasion is always person-relative and that is sometimes most obvious when engaging with Jesus’ mythicists. Thanks for watching!
Thank you for your research, this is very good work here.
Much appreciated, Justin. Glad you got to see this!
Love Apologetics showing history and truth from all kinds of ancient sources who even opposed Christ just gives me that much more faith
Glad you found this helpful, Nick. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@driventoaccount3276 Although this can be a connotation the word apologetics has for some people, it isn't part of the definition of the term used in the New Testament. To me, honesty with the data should be the foundation of any rational justification for Christian truth claims.
@@driventoaccount3276 That's not what the word means. In fact, the Christian tradition itself is much more concerned with historical evidence than most people realize.
@@driventoaccount3276 Christianity was a movement well before The Flavian Dynasty (69-96 A.D.). Why do you believe that?
@@driventoaccount3276 oh but apologetics do exist in science. Its called theories. They remain theories because they can't be proved. Evolution may very well be true, but it can't be adequately be explained as to how it came into being or the intricacies of how it works. Otherwise scientist could themselves create life. Science itself continually evolves.
Does it matter whether he did or not, and if so why?
I give an initial answer at the beginning of my presentation. Also, see 1 Corinthians 15.
Dropping by as I have a friend who was “attacked” on YT for her arguments about Jesus’ existence as historical fact. If I’d have those kinds of comments, can I direct them here?😅 ‘cause you have the ammo in hand. I still have to learn more on apologetics. My strength is more on teaching on spiritual growth and discipleship.🤪
To answer your question, I believe the apostle Paul is in Roman history and that part from being persecutor to christian was recorded. The reason why he was “converted” wasn’t mentioned there but we all know what it was. I’ll have to double check my sources though. - Hanna
Feel free to send anyone interested in the historical evidence for Jesus to this video and I'll be happy to help them with any questions they have. Thanks!
Tremendous presentation! God bless you richly!
Thanks, Kathleen. Glad you found this helpful.
Loved this so much! Thank you!
You're welcome, Gwen! So glad you found this and dropped a comment to let me know. Please consider sharing this with someone who needs to see it!
Thank you for sharing. I think I need to take notes on it to fully grasp everything.
You're welcome, Mark. Feel free to grab a PDF of all my slides here if it would be helpful to you as you take notes: apologeticsguy.com/doubtingjesus
Hey, at the minute 22:9, you said us to look in the Bible for the confirmation in Luke 1, verse 3, but actually, the numbers should be inversed, because it's in Chapter 3 of Luke, verse 1. :) Btw, thank your for this video! May God bless you!
To be honest, I'm actually dyslexic and this happens sometimes when I get tired. I gave this talk 3 times in a row and they filmed the 3rd one. Sorry for the mix-up! But thank you,
Zerni, for taking the time to watch this and leave a comment here.
@@apologeticsguy, no worries! It could happen to everyone of us! What matters is that you took your time to explain through real facts of history the existence of Jesus, which many people is curious about it! Keep doing the great job for the Name of Jesus! 😇😇😇
Glory be to God and our Lord I have never doubt the existence of my Lord jesus and I will never ever even in my grave jesus is and will be my Lord and salvation
Amen. Thanks for watching and commenting here!
Great presentation. God bless you.
Thanks for watching and letting me know you found this helpful.
It would be intresting to see the info of this video stacked up with the prophecies of the OT pretaining to Jesus historically. That would be perfectly undeniable.
One of my favorite prophecies is Psalm 110 as quoted in Peter's speech in Acts 2, the apologetics talk that kicked off the church!
@@apologeticsguy do you have any decent sources i could look into who have explained it. im very novice and simple minded😂
I appreciated this presentation, and I learned from it, but I take issue on the suggestion that someone added to Josephus. I'm surprised to hear him just repeating what atheists say about Josephus. They say, Josephus wouldn't have written that because he was a Jew." JESUS was a Jew. Many of His disciples were Jews. Paul was a Jew, a Pharisee, and a Roman citizen. ALL of them, including Jesus himself, said that He was the Christ. Whether or not Josephus was a follower of Jesus, there is no reason why he wouldn't have written the things other Jews had written, and continued to write about Him. I have no doubt Josephus wrote it. The mythicists only say it was added so they can continue saying that there are no extra-Biblical sources for the historicity of Jesus. Christians should never help them in their revisionist history.
How many times must this take?
Do we see the Word GOD has a Whole middle way to measure together?
I’m not sure what you mean, but thank you for watching!
@@apologeticsguy
Of course you understand. You can see the Words picture. Its middle is its Whole measure.
I use the Words Whole measure, as we take it from the Word GOD being Sacrificed.
Thanks for the response.
@@apologeticsguy
If you ever have the time, take the time to draw the Words remains into its Sacrificed measure.
That way, you can see the Words time yourself.
The Word is GOD, taking its middle way for its O measure.
From its measure we see the Words remains, G D.
Since we took what belongs to it, we draw its remains into its measure.
Its easy, all we have to do is give it truth.
G is an incomplete whole with one square angle drawn in Earth.
O is a Whole.
D is a split whole with two square angles drawn in Earth.
How does one example from Zeitgeist being wrong mean that no elements of the stories about Jesus were borrowed from other stories?
It’s an example of how some conspiracy theories about Jesus work, pulling in themes or details from a variety of religious figures to question the existence of Jesus. What did you think about the historical evidence I presented?
@@apologeticsguy, no doubt that's one way conspiracies form. Zeitgeist and, as another example, Religiulous, are guilty of mixing history with speculation with unsupported supposition. I think some of the evidence for Jesus' existence is really solid. I think it's even possible we have an accurate representation of some of the things he said. I also think is probable that some of the stories we have about Jesus formed the same way the stories of other religious figures form, growing with each telling.
There is an incredible amount of bad evidence for historicity. Zero good evidence. You need to explain why there is an alarming lack of contemporary evidence and only later historians quoting from Christian sources. In short, evidence for historicity is at best very weak.
Historians don't see things that way. Grab a copy of the Oxford Classical Dictionary, produced by scholars for scholars and you'll see that zero doubt is raised about whether Jesus really lived. Same thing with the Cambridge Ancient History, a secular account of ancient history. The section on Christianity is written by a famous classicist about the historical Jesus. Virtually every critical scholar who works in this area is persuaded by the evidence, including the famous atheist New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman who finally wrote a book to respond to mythicists. I realize persuasion is person-relative, but I wonder why your standard seems so different. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
Also paper was very fragile, you store them in the wrong temperature conditions and they won’t last a month.
Here is your non-biblical proof that Jesus existed.......Whose name do people curse in vain all over the world? Tell me if you know. Allah? Nope. Karma? Nope. The pope? Nope. Evolution? Nope. Do you want me to go on? The only name used in vain around the entire globe is Jesus. Why, because it breaks a commandment!
I'm not sure I would take this approach, but that is one way to look at it! Thanks for watching and leaving a comment here.
Maybe because evolution isnt a person. Also are you blind? People criticize evolution all the time
Some 5,000 show up to hear him, there is a big spectacle of Jesus speaking with the Roman ruler and you say “it was a little thing, therefore it would be like Guam is to the US? Huh.
Galilee was a tiny part of a vast Roman empire and it wasn’t until Christianity became a larger movement that we see Jesus mentioned in the sources
that have survived to this day. During Jesus’ lifetime, however, Rome did take notice on a local level. Perhaps the sign Pilate had created with the charge against Jesus was the earliest Roman text about him. Thanks for watching!
I don't have time for a 45 minute video, but if there was ANY evidence of God, he'd be able to provide the information in 5 minutes or less. The same way I can disprove the validity of the entire bible in a single paragraph. It's actually very simple when you aren't a coward who has an emotional attachment to a fictional belief system. Science has gone far over the last couple centuries. Learn it, or risk living your life in the pursuit of ignorance rather than knowledge.
How did you come to that conclusion about God? If you do find time to watch the video, I would love to get your thoughts on the existence of Jesus as a historical figure-something which even most atheist and Jewish scholars can agree on!
If you don't have time for a 45 minute video, it sounds like just a refusal to watch it and instead be combative against Christianity to try to display some misguided "mental superiority"
@@adammeyer3129 you almost figured it out! The truth is, I spend my valuable time learning about reality. Specific topics like psychology, physics, astronomy, and philosophical introspection. Actual tools that are useful to existence. Rather than some ridiculous emotional ordeal based on a fiction. Feel free to find out yourself, as you gain knowledge through careful research. Do not confuse convenient opinions, with observed and calculated facts.
Even Johannes Kepler, one of the fathers of modern astronomy, had a Christian faith that motivated his scientific work. Consider his thoughts on God and the divine rationality that makes it possible to study the real world. Then come back and watch the video and see how Kepler’s belief in Jesus is grounded in history!
Tacitus
Yes! Good taking point I like to incorporate often. Glad you got to see this!
The reason Jesus became very popular is because of the claim of accepting Jesus guarantees eternal life and the forgiving of sins. It was the best offer than any other religion for pagans.
You may be onto something. The message of forgiveness of sins through Jesus became especially popular among women, children, and slaves in the ancient world. There is a remarkable uniqueness to Christianity when compared to other religious traditions-even today. The claims of the historical Jesus are a good place to begin any critical investigation of this.
what must I do to be saved
Thanks for watching, Nicc. Watched your video, too! You know Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9, 1 Cor 15, etc.
Great talk and very helpful. Thank you very match!
You’re welcome, Marcellin. Glad it was helpful to you!
I ask all GOD disbelievers to watch this critically important video while there is still time to be forgiven and Saved from eternal condemnation
Thanks for watching. Please share this with those who need to see it!
I found this searching for info for my Sunday school lesson. I'm doing the study "The Jesus you may not know" with my teens and wanted to start off with this topic. God let this pop up. Thank you Lord, for Your guidance. Please pray for youth today. They are navigating a world that is like a mine field of wickedness waiting to destroy them. School really IS, as bad as you hear.
Thanks for letting me know. So glad you came across this presentation and found it helpful. God bless your students and your ministry!
Wow! Great video, thank you. ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you! 😃
Great talk, really nice job!
Thanks, Andy!
what are the best contemporary eyewitness we have on Jesus ?
The New Testament Gospels and Paul contain this. Josephus is another 1st century author but he was probably born shortly after Jesus died.
@@apologeticsguy , yes, Josephus was born in 37AD so he would not qualified ; did Paul ever claim he saw Jesus in person or in visions and revelations .Consensus of bible scholars claim gospels written much later .
Well EVEN THE OLD TESTAMENT SPEAKS OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOR. THE ARK OF THE COVENANT THAT IS A TEMPORARY "PICTURE" OF CHRIST SHEDDING HIS BLOOD. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THE ANIMAL SACRIFICE HAD TO BE REPETITIVE BUT CHRIST DID INCE FOR ALL TIME!
@@danielolley5949 , contemporary eyewitness
@@charlesboles9307 Dating the Gospels later doesn't change the fact that the events they record include eyewitness accounts of Jesus. Paul did claim to see Jesus and he wrote before any of the Gospels. Also, classical scholars do not reject Josephus Ant 18 and 20 as evidence for Jesus. Why do you?
Where's the government documents from Jesus' time ? There surely has to a lot of other proof to repeat what the Bible says,,why would it be concealed?
In the video, I mentioned that Jesus’ crucifixion is a bedrock historical fact but I didn’t have time to mention that the official charge against Jesus, written by the Roman government and publicly posted as an inscription on a sign above his head, is another highly evidenced historical fact. I also talked about Josephus’ 1st century writing, but didn’t mention that after the Jews were defeated by the Romans, the emperor actually paid Josephus to write for Rome, so in some sense, this is another government-sponsored mention of Jesus. I could say more. But what did you think the other evidence I mentioned in my presentation?
I have to ask. If Jesus was real, where was he really from? Seems to depend upon which gospel you choose. Choice one Nazareth, choice two Bethlehem. Here is one where you loose. BTW. it was a B-17 that hit the Empire State Building. Not a B-52. Check it out for yourself.
It actually a B-25 (see the newspaper). I have a mild form of dyslexia and sometimes reverse numbers when I get tired (I gave this talk 3 times in a row across 2 cities and they filmed the last one)! BTW, if you ask where I'm "from" or where I was born, you'll get 2 different answers so it's no big deal that Jesus was born in Bethlehem but was "from" Nazareth. Thanks for actually watching the video!
More likely, Jesus was from Sidon where his father, Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera, owned a home. That is why Jesus was called "Yeshu ben Pantera" in the first and second centuries.
See Mark 7:24 where Jesus, uninvited, enters a home in Sidon and hopes to remain inside undisturbed so that he can get some rest from the populace.
That’s was good 😌
Glad you found this helpful. Thanks for watching and letting me know!
@@apologeticsguy no problem! This topic is the bridge for non believers
OK if there god why is the world full unhappiness then why the god hiding all the time why don't he show himself then
If the Bible is true, then what you’re asking for happened-God revealed himself in Jesus and knowing him is the way to lasting human fulfillment. But of all the questions you could post here, why these?
May positivity and strength surround anyone reading this. Believe in yourself, for you have the power to overcome any challenge. 🌈✨
I appreciate you watching and wishing us well! 1 John 5:5 “Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” 😃
Did Jesus exist? He has always existed... The same yesterday today and, forever!!!
The tomb is empty., The veil in the Herodian temple was torn from the top to the bottom.... Signifying there's no separation between man and the Holy God... Forever....💖🕊️
Thanks for watching and sharing your reaction here.
why fake green screen a talk? Or do my eyes deceive me?
Not sure what you’re taking about. This was recorded live at South Valley Church in Gilroy, CA.
You are amazing. I'm so glad I found you!
Glad you found my channel, too. Thanks for watching and commenting here!
Uh oh, B-26 not B-52.
Actually, it says it was a B-25 right on the newspaper (34:55). Still, I'm not surprised I accidentally reversed the numbers when I spoke (This happens to me sometimes). I actually gave this presentation 3 times in a row that day and you're watching the last presentation (I actually walked offstage at the Gilroy campus and hopped into a car to the Hollister campus where I jumped right on stage to present. Then, I jumped right back into the car to give the talk you're watching here at the Gilroy campus again...all wearing the same microphone which was kind of cool). I really enjoyed it but it was kind of like an "Iron Man" of public speaking. What a day! 😂
@@apologeticsguy ah yes B 25. Built the model myself. That was a laugh for me seeing a B-52 before it existed hit the Empire State Bldg. Lololol!
New subject: i immediately gravitated to your teaching. Great balance and efficient use of time. Your on point to what I’ve been wanting to know thanks! I teach too. I understand how and why God created air.
The First tithe was the tree!
This kind cometh out by.....
The true reason for Hell.
Excellent!!!!!
Glad you liked the presentation!
I would say with the evidence you are trusting your entire identity on you might as well believe in all the Gods.
Thanks for watching. Early Christians did believe in other gods as real spirits who were opposed to the God of Israel. How does your question relate to the evidence I presented for Jesus as a figure in ancient history?
I don't need evidence or proofs.. I believe Jesus Christ is true and real because God said it IS!
This is actually similar to why the first Christians began to worship Jesus: They believed God validated Jesus’ claims to be both Lord and Messiah! For them, that WAS the proof! Thanks for your comment, Rebekah.
"The Crucifix Fish Testifies" Look it up. This proves beyond a doubt that the crucifixion happened, how it happened, and also that the resurrection happened.
Thanks for watching. The historical crucifixion of Jesus and the popularity of crucifixes in public spaces and personal effect do raise the question of the Resurrection. Great Holy Week conversation topic during the lead-up to for Easter!
This so much more evidence that I usually have heard. Amazing
Thanks for watching and letting me know. Glad you found my channel!
Evidence! 😂😂😂
@@chrisbrooks4032 I know right? 🤣🤣🤣
Very nice !!! Noted the content
Glad you found it helpful. Please share it with someone who needs to see it. Thanks for watching!
i doubt that any god would get his message out via a collection of paper scrapes and tall stories...he could just text us all today..But nay...too busy
The overwhelming majority of human beings throughout history have had no access to 21st century text messaging.However, they have had access to documentary evidence of Jesus of Nazareth, including eyewitness testimony. If you really got a text message supposedly from God, wouldn't you think it was a prank? I would! What did you think of the historical data I shared?
Thanks sir.
You’re welcome.
The Bible is Truth. It's the Word of God. Stand on the Word of God. He's the ONLY authority. Atheists always want to keep the Bible out of it, because the Bible is Truth. It's your sword and your shield. Put on the armor of light. Bring the Bible into it, and use it to stand your ground.
Amen. I’ve found this historical approach to be a great way to do just that-bring the Bible into it in a way that some who doubt can appreciate. Thanks for watching!
Fantastic ❤
Thanks for watching!
Three reasons why one (not relying on faith) should be agnostic about the claim "Jesus certainly existed".
1) The Gospels/Acts are overflowing with signs of literary fabrication.
"Those who want to find a historical record in Mark face an even greater obstacle than the ambiguous evidence for Mark's literary borrowing of non-Jesus material to create Jesus stories. This obstacle is the fact that if Jesus' earthly ministry actually happened as Mark portrays it, the history of Paul's Gentile mission and the opposition it encountered would be incomprehensible. How could it be that neither Paul nor anyone who worked with him, nor his opponents, knew about Jesus' determined endorsement of a mixed community sharing table fellowship together? How is it that everyone somehow forgot that Jesus explicitly "declared all foods clean (7:19)"? In the pitched battles Paul waged against his Judaizing opponents in his epistles, any one of the many stories about Jesus' conflicts over Law observance would have been devastating evidence of the rightness of Paul's side, yet none are ever mentioned."
Tom Dykstra, Mark, Canonizer of Paul, pp. 229-230
"A raft of scholars, including Randel Helms, Thomas L. Brodie, John Dominic Crossan and others, have shown again and again how this and that Gospel passage likely originated as a Christian rewrite of this or that Old Testament passage."
Thomas L Thompson, Is This Not the Carpenter, pp. 113-114
"Yet, regardless of the difficulty, comparing Luke-Acts and Mark with this verifiable literary antecedent is worthwhile. A key reason is simple: in looking for a literary precedent to the Gospels there is no verifiable pre-Christian text which comes as close to any gospel as the Elijah-Elisha narrative does to Luke-Acts and Mark."
Thomas Brodie, The Crucial Bridge, pp. 97
"While issues with the gospels are certainly not enough to rule out the possibility that there was a historical Jesus behind the gospel story, it also cannot be said with certainty that there must have been one. The lack of primary sources and the problems with the Gospel stories alone, would seemingly justify having some doubt."
Raphael Lataster, Jesus Did Not Exist, Sources: We All Know They're Rubbish - pp. 35/73
"The use of cycles, parallels, repetitions, melodramatic characterization, stereotyped scene construction, inventing or presenting stories that replicate biblical narrative, unbalanced narrative with evident symbolic import, and a balanced structure-all these raise insurmountable objections. History cannot be quite so symmetrical. In addition there are any number of historical problems."
Richard Pervo, The Mystery of Acts, pp. 151
Note: Nowhere in Acts do the authorities show concern that Jesus escaped justice.
"Despite scholarly efforts to detect an underlying Aramaic original for Mark or Matthew, it is probable that all the evangelists wrote in the common (koinē) Greek of their day. Further, the vast majority of Hebrew Bible citations in the New Testament are taken from the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible (the Septuagint)."
"Large sections of Matthew, Mark, and Luke repeat stories about and sayings of Jesus in nearly identical words. Hence these three Gospels are referred to as the “Synoptic” Gospels. On a linguistic level, both Luke and Matthew improve on Mark’s style, smoothing out inelegant expressions and repetitions. Luke eliminates Mark’s characteristic use of parataxis (one short phrase following another without indicating how they are related) by employing balancing particles and subordinate clauses. Matthew follows Mark’s outline, though the insertion of considerable sections of discourse material may obscure that relationship for the casual reader. Luke knows most of Mark but has no parallels to Mk 6:45-8:26; whether Luke chose to omit this section or had a different version of Mark remains unclear. Detailed analysis of the traditions shared by Matthew, Mark, and Luke provides strong support for the view that Mark provided the template that Matthew and Luke revised, both correcting and smoothing out its language and expanding the Jesus material it contained."
"While the Synoptic Gospels have a close literary relationship, the Fourth Gospel, the Gospel of John, presents a much greater puzzle. Its chronology of Jesus’s ministry differs from that of the Synoptics. In John, Jesus spends three years preaching, during which he journeys between Galilee and Jerusalem; in the Synoptic Gospels, he visits Jerusalem only once, at the end of a ministry that apparently lasted less than a year."
The New Oxford Annotated Bible NRSV, pp. 1380-1381
2) The earliest Xtian writings (Pauline Epistles) are odd when looked at closely. Paul is adamant that his Gospel is not from humans, but from scripture, and visions/dreams (Gal. 1:11-18, Rom. 15:4, 1 Cor. 15:3-8). A secret hidden through the ages now revealed (Rom. 16:25-26, 1 Cor. 2:6-7). Also Paul says his apostleship is by the same means as the founding Pillars (Gal. 2:6-8). Paul's preexisting being was killed for looking like a human (Phili. 2:7), and his killers would not have killed him if they knew it was God's secret plan for mankind's salvation (1 Cor. 2:6-8). This makes more sense when looking at the Joshua/Jesus in the OT who tricks Satan and is exalted by God. Note that these verses have what can be perceived as symbolisms for flesh (dirty clothes= sinful flesh & Five Kings= Five Senses that enslaves one to sin). So Zech. 3:1-9, 6:11-13, & Jos. 10:22-27 together symbolically has a Jesus in a flesh disguise getting hung in a tree, shoved into a tomb, and exalted by God to remove guilt of the land.
Zechariah 3:1-9
"1 Then he showed me the high priest Joshua (Savior) standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan (Adversary) standing at his right hand to accuse him. 2 And the LORD said to Satan, "The LORD rebuke you, O Satan! The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is not this man a brand plucked from the fire?" 3 Now Joshua was dressed with filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. 4 The angel said to those who were standing before him, "Take off his filthy clothes." And to him he said, "See, I have taken your guilt away from you, and I will clothe you with festal apparel." 5 And I said, "Let them put a clean turban on his head." So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him with the apparel; and the angel of the LORD was standing by.
6 Then the angel of the LORD assured Joshua, saying 7 "Thus says the LORD of hosts: If you will walk in my ways and keep my requirements, then you shall rule my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you the right of access among those who are standing here. 8 Now listen, Joshua, high priest, you and your colleagues who sit before you! For they are an omen of things to come: I am going to bring my servant the Branch. 9 For on the stone that I have set before Joshua, on a single stone with seven facets, I will engrave its inscription, says the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the guilt of this land in a single day."
Zechariah 6:11-13
11 Take the silver and gold and make a crown, and set it on the head of the high priest Joshua son of Jehozadak (Savior Son of the Righteous God); 12 say to him: Thus says the LORD of hosts: Here is a man whose name is Branch: for he shall branch out in his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD. 13 It is he that shall build the temple of the LORD; he shall bear royal honor, and shall sit upon his throne and rule. There shall be a priest by his throne, with peaceful understanding between the two of them."
Joshua 10:22-27
"22 Then Joshua (Savior) said, "Open the mouth of the cave, and bring those five kings out to me from the cave." 23 They did so, and brought the five kings out to him from the cave, the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, and the king of Eglon. 24 When they brought the kings out to Joshua, Joshua summoned all the Israelites, and said to the chiefs of the warriors who had gone with him, "Come near, put your feet on the necks of these kings." Then they came near and put their feet on their necks. (see Psa. 110:1/Heb. 10:13) 25 And Joshua said to them, "Do not be afraid or dismayed; be strong and courageous; for thus the LORD will do to all the enemies against whom you fight." 26 Afterward Joshua struck them down and put them to death, and he hung them on five trees. And they hung on the trees until evening. 27 At sunset Joshua commanded, and they took them down from the trees and threw them into the cave where they had hidden themselves; they set large stones against the mouth of the cave, which remain to this very day. (see also Deut. 21:22-23/Gal. 3:13)"
3) Verses held up as undeniable evidences for an historical Jesus have plausible alternative explanations. The verse Gal. 4:4b "God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law," looks to have Jesus born of a woman, and is Jewish. But what Paul could mean is that "woman/law" is Divine Wisdom (Greek Sophia personified feminine wisdom/see Prov. 3:13-20, 8:1-36, Baruch 3:37, 4:1) in that Jesus was made all knowing unlike Adam. The verse Gal. 1:19 "but I did not see any other apostle except James the LORD's brother." is seen as a slam dunk for historicity. But Paul's theology is of spiritual kinship (Gal. 4:5-7) and everyone in Christ are brothers/sisters. Paul makes no distinction that this James is blood related to Jesus, and maybe "Lord's brother" is a cultic title? The verse Rom. 1:3b "who was descended from David according to the flesh" (2 Sam. 7:12) is good evidence for historicity. But 2 Sam. 7:12c "who shall come forth from your body," can mean God made a flesh body from David's semen for Jesus (it was a belief that the male seed contained the whole body). This is a convenient way to fulfill messianic prophecy for a celestial event instead of on Earth.
Why is the sky blue? The Old Testament answers this 1,000s of years before modern science.
Genesis (NRSV)
1:6a "And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters,"
1:6b "let it separate the waters from the waters."
1:7 "So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so."
1:14a "And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky"
7:11d "...and the windows of the heavens were opened."
8:2bc "the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,"
Psalm 148:4-6 "Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens! Let them praise the name of the LORD, for he commanded and they were created. He established them forever and ever; he fixed their bounds, which cannot be passed."
Proverbs 8:28-29 "when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,"
Job 22:12, :14c “Is not God high in the heavens? See the highest stars, how lofty they are!" "...and he walks on the dome of heaven.’"
Job 37:18 "Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?"
Isa. 24:18b "For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble."
"Finally, it is worth pointing out that the world picture of the Jewish people, as reconstructed from various passages in the Bible, was essentially the same as that of the Egyptians and the Babylonians. ...The flat, disc-shaped Earth is surrounded by a sea; beneath the Earth, there are wells and fountains connected with the upper part of the Earth as well as with the great deep, called Tehom. The Earth rests on pillars, and above it is the sky or firmament. Waters are to be found not only on the Earth or beneath it, but also above the firmament."
Helge S. Kragh, Conception of Cosmos, pp. 10
So the sky is blue because a massive molten glass dome holds up an ocean. Also the reason why when looking over the ocean the dark blue does not mix with the light blue all due to an unpassable barrier. Who knew but the Lord.
Even though the Quran mentions terrestrial salt and fresh water seas, there's references though vague are reminiscent of the OT's cosmology (perhaps a vestige of the OT).
Quran Pickthal/The Clear Quran
(PICKT) 21.032 "And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents."
(TCQ) 21.32 "And We have made the sky a well-protected canopy, still they turn away from its signs."
(PICKT) 25.053 "And He it is Who hath given independence to the two seas (though they meet); one palatable, sweet, and the other saltish, bitter; and hath set a bar and a forbidding ban between them."
(TCQ) 25.53 "And He is the One Who merges the two bodies of water: one fresh and palatable and the other salty and bitter, placing between them a barrier they cannot cross."
(PICKT) 27.061 "Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode, and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any God beside Allah ? Nay, but most of them know not!"
(TCQ) 27.61 "Or [ask them,] “Who made the earth a place of settlement, caused rivers to flow through it, placed firm mountains upon it, and set a barrier between [fresh and salt] bodies of water? Was it another god besides God?” Absolutely not! But most of them do not know."
(PICKT) 55.019-020 "He hath loosed the two seas. They meet. There is a barrier between them. They encroach not (one upon the other)."
(TCQ) 55.19-.20 "He merges the two bodies of [fresh and salt] water, yet between them is a barrier they never cross."
See how blatantly John takes a parable in Luke and reverses the Lazarus theme from *"neither will they be convinced even if someone rises from the dead"* in Luke to *"Many... had seen what Jesus did, believed in him"* in John. Also in Luke there's no mention of the sisters having a brother named Lazarus, nor does Mark, or Matthew mention him.
Luke 10:38-39
"38 Now as they went on their way, he entered a certain village, where *a woman named Martha welcomed him into her home. 39 She had a sister named Mary,* who sat at the LORD's feet and listened to what he was saying."
Luke 16:19-23, :27-31
"19 *"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,* 21 who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man's table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 *In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side."*
"27 He said, *'Then, father, I beg you to send him to my father's house - 28 for I have five brothers - that he may warn them, so that they will not also come into this place of torment.' 29 Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the prophets; they should listen to them.' 30 He said, 'No, father Abraham; but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31 He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."'*
John 11:1-4. :17,
"1 Now a certain man was ill, *Lazarus of Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha* 2 Mary was the one who anointed the Lord with perfume and wiped his feet with her hair; *her brother Lazarus was ill.* 3 So the sisters sent a message to Jesus, "Lord, he whom you love is ill." 4 But when Jesus heard it, he said, *"This illness does not lead to death; rather it is for God's glory, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it.""*
"17 When Jesus arrived, he found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb four days."
"38 Then Jesus, again greatly disturbed, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone was lying against it. 39 Jesus said, "Take away the stone." Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, "Lord, already there is a stench because he has been dead four days." 40 Jesus said to her, *"Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"* 41 So they took away the stone. And Jesus looked upward and said, *"Father, I thank you for having heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I have said this for the sake of the crowd standing here, so that they may believe that you sent me."* 43 When he had said this, he cried with a loud voice, "Lazarus, come out!" 44 The dead man came out, his hands and feet bound with strips of cloth, and his face wrapped in a cloth. Jesus said to them, "Unbind him, and let him go." 45 *Many of the Jews therefore, who had come with Mary and had seen what Jesus did, believed in him."*
Note: In the synoptics the Jewish leaders plot to kill Jesus because of the Temple cleansing incident, but in John it's the raising of Lazarus.
*Acts 9:3-8*
"3 Now as he was going along and approaching Damascus, *suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground* and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5 He asked, "Who are you, Lord?" The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 But get up and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do." 7 *The men who were traveling with him stood speechless because they heard the voice but saw no one. 8 Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; so they led him by the hand* and brought him into Damascus. "
2 Maccabees 3:23-28
"23 Heliodorus went on with what had been decided. 24 But when he arrived at the treasury with his bodyguard, then and there the *Sovereign of spirits and of all authority caused so great a manifestation that all who had been so bold as to accompany him were astounded by the power of God, and became faint with terror. 25 For there appeared to them a magnificently caparisoned horse, with a rider of frightening mien; it rushed furiously at Heliodorus and struck at him with its front hoofs. Its rider was seen to have armor and weapons of gold. 26 Two young men also appeared to him, remarkably strong, gloriously beautiful and splendidly dressed, who stood on either side of him and flogged him continuously, inflicting many blows on him. 27 When he suddenly fell to the ground and deep darkness came over him, his men took him up, put him on a stretcher, 28 and carried him away - this man who had just entered the aforesaid treasury with a great retinue and all his bodyguard but was now unable to help himself. They recognized clearly the sovereign power of God."*
*Acts 9:17-19*
"17 So Ananias went and entered the house. He laid his hands on Saul and said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on your way here, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18 And *immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and his sight was restored.* Then he got up and was baptized,19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength. For several days he was with the disciples in Damascus, 20 and immediately *he began to proclaim Jesus in the synagogues, saying, "He is the Son of God."'*
Tobit 11:7-8, :11-15a
"7 Raphael said to Tobias, before he had approached his father, *"I know that his eyes will be opened. 8 Smear the gall of the fish on his eyes; the medicine will make the white films shrink and peel off from his eyes, and your father will regain his sight and see the light."'*
"11 *with the gall of the fish in his hand, and holding him firmly, he blew into his eyes, saying, "Take courage, father." With this he applied the medicine on his eyes, 12 and it made them smart. 13 Next, with both his hands he peeled off the white films from the corners of his eyes. Then Tobit saw his son and threw his arms around him, 14 and he wept and said to him, "I see you, my son, the light of my eyes!" Then he said, "Blessed be God, and blessed be his great name, and blessed be all his holy angels. May his holy name be blessed throughout all the ages. 15 Though he afflicted me, he has had mercy upon me. Now I see my son Tobias!"'*
2 Maccabees 3:34-36
"34 *And see that you, who have been flogged by heaven, report to all people the majestic power of God."* Having said this they vanished. 35 Then Heliodorus offered sacrifice to the Lord and made very great vows to the Savior of his life, and having bidden Onias farewell, he marched off with his forces to the king. 36 *He bore testimony to all concerning the deeds of the supreme God, which he had seen with his own eyes."*
@@bleirdo_dude Let's engage with the actual content of my presentation since virtually all classical scholars and historians of antiquity agree that Jesus existed. What do you think about the historical evidence I used (sources outside the Bible written by non-Christians) to make the case fo the existence of Jesus?
@@apologeticsguyHow about answering two simple multiple choice questions:
In the context of what Paul wrote:
1) Who would most likely kill Jesus just for looking like, and believed to be just a human as related in the Kenosis Hymnal in Philippians? In other words who would find it a crime just for looking like, and believed to be human that's punishable by death?
Philippians 2:7-8
NRSV
"but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death - even death on a cross."
YLT
"but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made, and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,"
A) Romans B) Jews C) Satan
In the context of what Paul wrote:
2) Who would most likely not kill Jesus if was made known to them (without a doubt) that killing Jesus would fulfill God's preordained secret plan for mankinds salvation as per God's will? In other words who would be against eternal life for humans in that they would not follow through in killing Jesus because it would give said humans a chance at immortality?
Note: Rulers of this Age (Principalities); Rulers of the Earth realm is interchangeable with rulers of the spiritual realm to the ancient reader.
1 Corinthians 2:6-8
NRSV
"Yet among the mature we do speak wisdom, though it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to perish. But we speak God's wisdom, secret and hidden, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
YLT
"And wisdom we speak among the perfect, and wisdom not of this age, nor of the rulers of this age -- of those becoming useless, but we speak the hidden wisdom of God in a secret, that God foreordained before the ages to our glory, which no one of the rulers of this age did know, for if they had known, the Lord of the glory they would not have crucified;"
A) Romans B) Jews C) Satan
Taking these verses all together; We have Jesus not taking equality with the Father, but lowered himsellf taking on a flesh disguise, and ventured where it is a crime punishable by death for being a human. In this same place (Paul does not say where) of being found in human form whoever it is would not kill Jesus if it was made known to them. Whoever it is does not want the gift of immortality for mankind from the Creator. Who best describes killing humans on site, and not wanting eternal life for them?
Jews/Romans: Did they go around enforcing death sentences for the crime of looking like a flesh & blood human? If they were made known with no doubt, and whatever misconceptions they had were corrected of the plan of the Highest God (note: Romans seen their highest God Jupiter & the Jewish God Yahweh as the same deity, but they worshipped it differently)? Would they be for their own destruction, or for their own immortality (a gift from an all loving God)?
Satan: Would Satan attack flesh, and, or kill a human? Would Satan be against humans gaining a chance at immortality?
Note:
1 Cor. 5:5 "5 you are to hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord."
2 Cor. 12:7bc "7 Therefore, to keep me from being too elated, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me, to keep me from being too elated."
Gal. 4:3 "So with us; while we were minors, we were enslaved to the elemental spirits of the world."
Gal. 4:9 "Now, however, that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits? How can you want to be enslaved to them again?")
Psa. 78:49 "49 He let loose on them his fierce anger, wrath, indignation, and distress, a company of destroying angels."
Job 1:7 "7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it."'
You asked me to come here and comment so I'll post the same text.
I disagree with your finding, just because we don't have document for other people of the time of the Jesus character says nothing about him being a god. If he was a god then it would be in the best interest to 'inspire' people to write about him. A clear failure of this supposed god. However, it fully fits the no god idea. After all christians say that the collections of writings are inspired by god. It does not make any logical sense. Without the originals then we are stuck not knowing what was actually written in these "Gospel stories." So to say other people were also not written about is really no good evidence for the character of a Jesus.
We don't have any originals and the earliest fragments are copies of copies. Minimum 50-70 years then 150 years and far beyond that. I'll say it again without originals we have no idea what those originals even said to begin with. Then the 'we don't know who wrote them' along with the other writings that were tossed out by the early church as it went about just making stuff up with what goes in and what comes out. Textual analysis shows how they were copied from each other. As Bart Ehrman suggests read the gospels across each account and you quickly run into some serious problems that are not explained by different points of view.
Just think for a moment, if there was a god then this is a really bad way to keep his precious book don't you think? We should all know and there would not be the need for anyone to call themselves an "apologetic" as even you do. The fact that we have any of these 'apologetic' is a really big sign that something has gone terribly wrong with the '''word'''.
People are fed nonsense in church and from a young age until they become convinced of what they is true without the necessary good evidence. Just don't ask questions and continue to pay your 10%. I actually think that without that 10% people would just let it die out. One generation of people stopping putting this nonsense in the heads of children should put an end to it. It's not like birthday cake candles where for one generation everyone in the world stops this nonsense to children then the god pops up and relights everyones candles again.
Please don't give me the 'sin of man' nonsense because it a ridiculously floored argument. We are born broken? Really!! Then as broken people how can we know there is this loving god who just happens to have a furnace for us for 'all eternity' when we get it wrong. Then which 'apologetic' and or 'preacher' and or which 'religion' do we listen to? There are many, can you say you are correct over the other 'apologetics' peddling their versions? The fact is people become convince by both good and bad reasons.
There are many christians that certainly have got it wrong as there are over 1000 (One Thousand) versions of christianity alone. Forgetting about the other religions. That shows how poor and old Bronze Age book is at conveying a single message. Isn't it strange how, for most, we take on the religion of our parents. Isn't it lucky that we are born into the correct religion and then the correct denomination at that. WoW what are the chances of that? This is truly the most silly thing when you actually research and find that there is zero "good" evidence for the positive claim of the supernatural. The issues come down to childhood indoctrination stopping critical thinking skills.
Any thoughts from your side?
Stay safe - Gray
Hey, Gray. Turns out, I posted a "Did Jesus Exist?" video around the same time that Filip at Let's Talk Religion did. I just subbed him and I'm following him on Twitter now, too. You shared a lot , but let me get clarity on your first sentence: "I disagree with your finding, just because we don't have document for other people of the time of the Jesus character says nothing about him being a god." In this video, I made a historical argument for Jesus' existence, not his deity. So, did you mean to say that you disagree with my finding that Jesus was a real historical figure? If so, which ancient sources do you think I'm mistaken about and why? What about the other sources?
Listen to Fr Frank Turek on cross examine podcast on you tube
@@danielfortonforton223
Hi Daniel,
You said, "Listen to Fr Frank Turek on cross examine podcast on you tube"
I've no idea on which side you sit but for me, I'm not a fan and have seen much of his dribble in the past.
Frank Turek is dreadful, another money-making Christian conman. His ridiculously poor arguments were not even his and he peddles this utter nonsense as if it does a thing to move the needle towards the unproven supernatural.
Personally, I cannot stand that condescending hateful bully but thankfully I am not foolish and gullible enough to ever give that conman a single penny.
I am very happy to chat if you are a fan of his, clearly, I am not.
Gray
Im inspired by the replies of lets just say agnostics people to at least be opened yo this faith based but in time is becoming fact correlation eith historical evidence 😮
Thanks for watching, Mark!
28:00 Mexico is full of jesus names...even so Jesus was not a middle eastern name.just like native americans would not be call John Smith ot Susan Jones 400 years ago.
Jesus is an English translation of his name in the Greek texts, which is itself from his actual Hebrew name, Yeshua. How does this impact the question of his existence?
Wow!!!!
Glad you liked this, Ramuntshi. Thanks for watching!
@@apologeticsguy You've answered many questions which I had
Again scripture written by a guy back when that has all questions and hypocrisy…scripture is not proof…or evidence a very old document does not make it accurate or even truthful
Virtually all the data I discuss in this presentation are from sources outside the Scriptures, written by non-Christians. Historians use the criteria I mentioned to see how sure we can be that any ancient source is accurate in what it reports. Can you explain your concern?
"Many things would be different if Jesus never lived..."
Except that none of the things you listed require Jesus to have lived. People believe things and worship beings that are not true. They make art and build civilizations around false ideas all the time. I'm not arguing for or against the historical "Jesus." I happen to think there's a real person the stories are based on, but that's not required for a religion to exist or for people to do things in the name of that religion. FWIW, much of the art and music made depicting biblical people and stories were done because the Catholic Church was paying the most for the best art and using it as propaganda. It's not a mystery that we have a version of Jesus for every culture where he's preached.
I'm in for the long haul, still going to watch the whole video. Wish you hadn't come out of the gate with that kind of choir goosing.
If you think Jesus is a real person who lived, then I think we have some common ground! It fits with the historical data and our experience of the world better than the Jesus myth theory. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts here.
Extra points for picking the logical fallacies he uses to support the physical existence of a mythical character from the bible.
Thanks bro go on show the doubting Thomas's that God of the Bible lives.
Thanks for watching!
Refer to historian scholars for historical facts.Not individual thought.
Hey, Rosel. Thanks for engaging with me here. What do you mean by this comment?
The way a court looks at forensic evidence is the same way a historian looks at evidence? Why did you make a courtroom analogy to explain how historians look at evidence?
To make a point about corroboration and degrees of certainty that both lawyers and historians work with.
@@apologeticsguy
Hmmm, I think I would have been able to follow your point better if you had just talked about how historians look at evidence. The court room analogy doesn’t seems like a one for one comparison and muddied it for me.
@@talithaleah6563 Thanks for your feedback!
How can you say that mixing Christian beliefs with pagan stories wasn't done or wouldn't make Christianity more attractive to nonbelievers? That's exactly what the Roman church did over and over and over again... And it worked really, really well... Or did we imagine all those Easter egg hunts at churches all over the place last weekend?
Thank for watching! Good question. We're not talking the modern Roman Catholic Church or even the first Gentile converts. We're talking about the earliest Christians who were pious, Second Temple Jews. They knew how seriously God took syncretism and the trouble Israel endured because of it. This raises the question of why some of those pious Jews would think that that God of Israel required them to worship Jesus the Messiah. For example, the Apostle Paul's thought connected Jesus to the identity of Israel's God. And his high Christology is undoubtably related to his experience on the Damascus road, where he says he saw the risen Jesus. What do you think caused such a radical, sociological moment of pious Jews?
@@apologeticsguy Fair question. I’ll answer it… First, though, I’m not sure I accept the premise imbedded in the question…
I’m not sure we can say how pious those early Jewish converts were, any more than we can apply that label to modern American Christians, who come in a wide spectrum of belief and practice from devout to casual. There are a lot of people who show up to ministries today for food and fellowship, or if they have basic needs the church will meet. They’re believers and probably decent folks, but not what anyone would call “pious.”
I think it’s reasonable to assume that a good number of the early Jewish converts were this kind of “Christian,” and there’s no reason to believe they weren’t also “casual” Jews too. Especially given what we’re told about how the church at Jerusalem grew. Many of the earliest converts were widows, orphans, and other poor folks who depended on Stephen and the other deacons for their livelihoods. That process has direct parallels to charitable and missions work all over the globe. It’s basic Maslow. Give people sustenance, and they will stick around.
I’ll grant you that there were pious Jews who became pious Christ followers. Based on what we know of Paul’s ministry, those are the folks who told Paul to take his theology and hit the bricks, hence his ministry beginning in Antioch. We know they didn’t like where Paul was coming from, but it’s tough to nail down exactly what they believed, except that while they accepted Jesus as Messiah, they demanded that Christians also be practicing Jews.
Beyond that, our best record of how they practiced their beliefs comes thirdhand (at best) from Luke. He heard it from Paul who spent some time with Peter who, from what we read, may not have been the most reliable narrator. So, that leaves us at least three degrees of Kevin Bacon from knowing what the vast majority of those folks actually believed or how pious they were.
So… that’s the framework for my answer to your question, which is:
I don’t know that there was a “radical sociological moment” for pious Jews. Most seemed to talk about it as if it was just another sect of Judaism. They certainly approached it in this way. And, looking historically at the grown trajectory of the early Christian church, we see parallels in the LDS sect and even in Islam. Let’s look at the LDS, which we have good, solid, modern records for:
The LDS church was founded in NY. The people there were pious and dedicated. Some of them suffered a great deal for their beliefs. Based on what? An obviously farcical story… But there was enough belief for that church to build on. When it was “requested” that they leave NY, the church truly flourished. People joined up like crazy, and for a lot of reasons, some of which had little to do with theology. Some signed on because of the safety in numbers when traveling west. Or they married into it or they liked the structure of the culture… a lot of different, personal reasons. If you asked them, they would tell you they were true believers, but does that make them “pious?” Not really. I think, human nature and history being what they are, it’s safe to assume the early Jewish converts fall somewhere on a similar spectrum. Some were pious, most were not. Those who were pious Jews, remained pious Jews.
Jesus Exist he’s just like us Humans its not hard to Believe that. Whats hard to believe is that Jesus didn’t have Bible to begin with he use no scriptures. The People who made the Bible are not a reliable source they could be just as a bad Actors. Also Bible has been rewrite, edited many times. I don’t think Jesus Approves everything thats says on the Bible. Here’s the most annoying facts Jesus did not Know Paul, Paul is the Author of New Testaments of the Bible. Im catholic but i dont accept Pope and priest, and You the guy talking on Stage you can talk about the Bible but to me that is not Valid.
Glad you at least agree that Jesus is a human being. What makes you think Jesus didn’t know the Hebrew Scriptures? The New Testament is basically the teachings of Jesus and his official spokespeople. Consider reading it!
Heron of Alexandria was an inventor, scientist & engineer in the 1st century. He lived during the time of Christ
He invented 3 different trick devices to turn water into wine.
He never mentioned the existence of Jesus even tho Heron & his inventions were well known between Egypt & Greece
Thanks for watching. Your comment supports my view that Jesus was a generally obscure figure for most people in the ancient world. Also, Heron's devices would have something like a vessel from which wine or water may be made to flow, separately or mixed. Nobody thought he was a miracle worker. Still, it is a bedrock fact that the historical Jesus was believed to be a miracle worker. How is Heron relevant to the question of Jesus' existence? Why does it matter if he never mentions Jesus while talking about his inventions in the Pneumatica?
What if I believe in Jesus Christ, but question the Bible? I 1000% believe Jesus lived and died as resurrected for the savior of humanity through Gods mercy and grace. I do question the stories in there.
I repent and trust and have faith in our savior Christ. The Bible idk tho. The stories of Jesus I do believe because people were willing to die for this. It’s like if a gay liberal switched to being the most straight conservative hardcore and was willing to die for that. Your thoughts?
@@Jhart44 As a Christian who believes the stories about Jesus in the Bible, what exactly do you doubt about the other parts of the Bible? Can you explain your hesitancy to accept the faith handed down by the apostles, including the truth of the rest of the Scriptures?
@@apologeticsguy I believe In Jesus. I just don’t believe in the stories outside of him in the Bible. Like snake talking and 700 year old people. I whole heartedly love and trust and know Jesus Christ lived and died for humanity.
I just question other things in the bible
Billy Graham once had these doubts in 1949. His best friend, Charles Templeton, questioned the veracity of the Bible and became an agnostic, Billy started having doubts to the point where he couldn’t sleep. He had no doubt that Jesus was divine and that the Gospels were valid but his question was regarding whether the whole Bible is true. One night, he went into the woods and prayed by a tree stump and he said, “Lord, there are things in this book that I don’t understand, there are parts that seemingly contradict modern science, there are philosophical and psychological questions from others that I can’t answer, but I’m going to accept by faith that this is Your infallible Word.” Someone told him that because Jesus said it’s true, that means it’s true and that’s all the evidence you need.
Jesus is all knowing (He knows past, present and future intricately) and is morally perfect (He cannot lie), so when He says that the entire Old Testament is true, it’s true.
@@Jhart44 There are Christian scholars who see the snake in Genesis as the devil (not a literal snake) and many numbers related to years as symbolic in the Hebrew Scriptures. Your views on these texts don't have to be a barrier to faith.
Yehoshua Jehovah is Salvation. Mashiah, Anointed. Joshua the Anointed, Greco Roman Anglo Saxon Americanized Jesus, Joshua, Christ, Anointed. Maybe that could be the reason it was said many will call my name but few will be chosen. If someones calls you by someone else's name are you going to be answering them? "This person called Jesus" didn't exist until Greek translation??? The truth shall set you free, Lol. Jews are of Israel but all of Israel is not of Judah. Jesus Christ is all Greek??? to me. Lol.
Let’s not lose sight of the fact that he existed even though English didn’t exist in any recognizable form in the 1st century. Thanks for watching.
@@apologeticsguy let's also not lose sight of the fact names have meanings and their isn't a Hebrew Judean from Nazareth named Jesus Christ and his name meanings and origins most so called Christians are oblivious to. Also at the time of Christ which I believe in the possibility of was the Roman White Man City of Scythopolis, so while Jesus Christ wasn't blonde haired and blue eyes some of his followers probably would have been before Christianity came to Western Europe. Calling out the name of Jesus Christ and calling ones self a Christian the Bible is quite clear it takes more than that. "Forgerer's of Lies and Physicians of No value" as the Book of Job Chapter 13? says preachers of the love of money leading the masses astray. 81% of Americans in a Gallup Poll a year or so ago claimed they believe in God. While their works on living and dying in the streets and America's Suiciding Overdosing and Murdered in record numbers Blessed/Cursed Little Boys and Girls. The first great lie it has been said a child learns is the mass psychotic lie of China Disney Walmart Macy Department Store Madison Avenue Wall Street Advertising Campaign of Santa and his persecuted tortured murdered China and World's Slaven Elves for Plastic Toys and Artificial Intelligent Virtual UnReality Reality Games and Fantasyland "Hallow"een Plastic Costumes for )clastic Kids Cos/Play turning Little Boys into Fairy Tale Princess''s and Girl Power Girl Power Girl Power and Empowerment Empowerment Empowerment and Pride Pride Pride. Never mind Power Corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely and Pride Goeth Before the Destruction. Many will call and few will be chosen and don't expect that I would be so worthy let alone preaching to the World I Know I am Saved and You are Condemned to a Fiery Hell if You Don't Believe as I Believe. No man knows the time and no man Knows he is Saved.
There has never been any acceptable proof that the biblical Jesus existed.
The bible has never been acceptable proof..
If you wish to prove his existence to yourself, in your own way, be happy.
Thanks for watching. While there is a virtual consensus on the existence of Jesus among critical scholars, I wanted to help people like you who do not see the Bible as acceptable proof. What did you think about the ancient evidence outside the Bible?
quick synopsis - no proof at all
That’s just how history works. We study surviving traces of past events. What constitutes proof in your mind?
@@apologeticsguy incredible claims require incredible evidence. I don’t know what would convince me but none of your proofs are very good. Kinda just he said she said.
@@ethanmatthews2863 Why is the existence of Jesus an incredible claim in your mind? Even atheist scholars admit the strength of the historical case and virtually all agree on the historicity of events like Jesus' crucifixion.
@@apologeticsguy no they don’t.
@@ethanmatthews2863 Read Bart Ehrman's book called, Did Jesus Exist? for an example of an atheist scholar who demonstrates the strength of the historical case for the existence of Jesus and see why virtually all agree on the historicity of events like Jesus' crucifixion.
If God exists why would he need a man to justify his existence? If the Bible didnt exist how would humans gain knowledge about this God?
Hey, Jeremiah. Before the Bible existed, God revealed himself through creation, prophets, acts of power, and even directly in dreams and visions. What did you think about the data I presented about Jesus as a historical figure?
@@apologeticsguy It was informative, but as for the historicity of Jesus I side with Dr. Richard Carrier. I believe theres a high probability that the story is man made. Almost all stories in the Bible contain events most rational people know would not happen in reality.
@@jeremiahchandler8397 Not sure what you mean by "most rational people." Grab a copy of the Oxford Classical Dictionary, produced by scholars for scholars, and you'll see that zero doubt is raised about whether Jesus really lived. Same thing with the Cambridge Ancient History, a secular account of ancient history. The section on Christianity is written by a famous classicist about the historical Jesus. Virtually every critical scholar who works in this area is persuaded by the evidence, including the famous atheist New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman who finally wrote a book to respond to mythicists. I'm glad you found my presentation informative and wanted to engage with me in the comments. But I'm curious. What do you find so compelling about mythicism?
@@apologeticsguy Sorry to answer a question with a question, but without the Bible how would you have come to know the God referenced in the Bible? How could you even define that God without the Bible?
When you talk about Celsus, you are playing pretty fast and loose. You don’t bother to mention that he’s writing in the second century and is making fun of the Christian practices and beliefs, not attesting to the historical existence of Jesus.
This is in a section on the effects Jesus had. Curious about your own view. Are you convinced that Jesus did not exist?
@@apologeticsguy you are not clearly delineating what is attesting to his historical existence and what is meant to attest to Christians and their behaviors.
My view for most of my life was that it was clear that Jesus existed. First I thought he was obviously a deity, then more likely an apocalyptic preacher, and then more I examine the evidence, the less sure I am that we can be confident there even was a man that the legends are attached to. It’s just so thin. It’s hard for me to believe that you would accept such sparse and late attestations to the existence of any other religious figure. If I apply the same standards to Jesus as Buddha, or Krishna, or Hercules, or Inanna, it’s not clear that he was more likely a real person than they.
@@talithaleah6563 What do you find so compelling about this view? Virtually every critical scholar who works in this area is persuaded by the evidence, including the famous atheist New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman who finally wrote a book to respond to mythicists.
@@apologeticsguy I don’t know what you mean when you ask why I find that view compelling. What view? The claim has been made that there was a historical person who inspired, at least in part, what is written in the New Testament and I don’t find the evidence very compelling. I think Ehrman’s most persuasive argument is the way in which the New Testament stories had to warp the Old Testament prophecies to try and make his life fit. If there was no historical person, they could have made up a messiah who was a better fit from the start. Jesus may be based on a real person, or several, or completely made up, but your video is presenting pretty thin arguments in my estimation. I’m halfway through and so far the only thing you’ve convinced me of is that there were Christians around the second century. Oh, and that mention of James the brother of Jesus from Josephus, how did you determine that brother means a blood relative and not “brother in Christ” which was used to refer to Christians?
@@talithaleah6563 Persuasion is always relative, so that's OK with me. Thanks for engaging with my video! Christians were worshipping Jesus even in the 1st century, not just the 2nd. And the origin of the Christian movement is linked to the early belief in the resurrection of a real human being, Jesus. I don't know of any doubts that are raised in the scholarly literature about James' relationship to Jesus based on your idea that Josephus may have thought of Jesus as James' "brother in Christ." What historians specializing in this area have you read that you find compelling? Or that support your suspicions about the ancient evidence for the life of Jesus?
I found a couple errors in the Bible that can be debunked sadly, but I wasn't sure about the resurrection. I still think jesus rose again, but not sure if he even existed.
Thanks for watching my video. I'm a bit confused about your view. How can you believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead but also believe that he did not exist?
@@apologeticsguy he existed I did my research on the Roman writings talking about his executions and Christians ✝️ actually living in those times being and seen as a threat to society and not being able to find his body. Still today they can't find him.
My main issue is the tower of babel. I dont believe its possible to have such a big population in just 100 years and be able to build a tower. How is that even possible? Jesus did rise from the dead yet the old testament is a mystery. This is the only issue I have with the Bible. Everything else has been proven already.
@@apologeticsguy what I was saying before was I believe Jesus wouldve rose again if there's evidence, but seeing errors on the Bible makes me think he's a myth, yet apparently he existed evidence checks out.
@@XxlightxX Must a news report about a certain person be inerrant in order to count as evidence of his or her existence? Even historians who believe the Bible may get some details wrong do not doubt that Jesus was a historical person. So if you recognize that Jesus existed, the next step is to investigate how much the Gospels line up with sources outside the Bible, like I begin to do towards the latter part of my presentation. It's an interesting study for sure!
@@XxlightxX Perhaps you should check out "When Critics Ask" by Dr. Norman Geisler, it deals with apparent contradictory text from Genesis to Revelation, it was a great help for me.
So no evidence. No proof of demonstrating what he was claimed to do? Got it. Now do Santa clause.
I get where you’re coming from if you think proof means 100% certainty, but that’s not how history works. It’s OK if the evidence isn’t convincing to you, since persuasion is person relative. But Christianity is different from other religions because by the Bible’s own standard, Christianity is false if Jesus did not exist. And BTW, St. Nicholas was a Greek bishop who believed this, too! Thanks for sharing your thoughts here.🎅
@@apologeticsguy Thank you for answering these comments because it's also a class on engaging objections.
You start the talk by saying let’s talk about Jesus, and you immediately switch to talking about Christian’s and Christianity. It’s a bit like saying “let’s talk about the historical Mickey Mouse” and immediately switching to talking about Disneyland. Not a good start.
Virtually every source I mention in this presentation represents non-Christian voices, including authors hostile to the Christian movement.
@@apologeticsguy but you did not, in fact, start off by talking about Jesus as you said you would. You talked about Christians. No one disputes that Christians exists, the question is did Jesus exist.
@@talithaleah6563 The sociological movement of Jews to Christian traditions is part of the data to consider when assessing whether or not Jesus existed, and it is interesting that non-Christian sources discuss these worship practices.
@@apologeticsguy would you agree that the rise of Hindu worshipers (or any other worshipers) is a data point in favor of the existence of one of their gods? If you were to discover that historians talked about how many Hindus there were in the past, would that convince you of the historical accuracy of their core claims?
@@talithaleah6563 If a deity exists, it's likely that various human conceptions of that deity would emerge, each with varying levels of accuracy. The Christian claim seems unique among World Religions as it is based on the historical existence, death, and resurrection of a human person: Jesus of Nazareth. This is why so much scrutiny is rightly placed upon the historicity of Christian claims. Hinduism isn't based on similar historical assertions.
Your reasoning is not convincing there are many scholars today that say that Particular Jesus may not have existed . However the actual name for Jesus in Hebrew was as common as John is today, So chances are someone with that name it exists and did get crucified. However that does not mean he is the messiah As you misunderstand what messiah is obviously. Even if this Jesus actually existed you have a total misunderstanding of tanak Or as you pagans call it the Old Testament. The mythology that has been associated with the man is nowhere to be found in tanak. Even if that man Jesus existed he is not the one that made your belief pagan your forefathers have , We have inherited lies from our fathers,you have a total misunderstanding of YHVH. Creator is not a man Nor do you have to have sacrifice to be forgiven for your wrong doings. According to Old Testament you turn back from your wrong doings and take hold of what creator told Israel at the bottom of the mountain. You do not engage in human sacrifice That is against Torah Nor are you allowed to engage in symbolic consumption of human flesh or symbolic consumption of drinking human blood for atonement . Your atonement is to turn back from your wrong doings ,which is what creator said which is Torah. But I expect all of you to go with the human sacrifice, heaven and Earth will Testify against you for your actions, You have the book therefore you have no excuse start with the front of the book. Not the add on to the Hebrew Bible you call it the New Testament, You stapled your stuff on the back of the Hebrew Bible. Remember anything True in the New Testament is not new, And anything new in the New Testament is not true. That is according to Torah.
By the way Paul was from tartes And there where he grew up at they had a God named Attis you Ought to research Him. Kind to remind you of the statue of liberty If you look at his statues.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Persuasion is always person-relative, so the fact that you're currently unconvinced is OK with me. Just wanted to give you something to think about. BTW, you should grab a copy of the Oxford Classical Dictionary, produced by scholars for scholars and you'll see that zero doubt is raised about whether Jesus really lived. Same thing with the Cambridge Ancient History, a secular account of ancient history. The section on Christianity is written by a famous classicist about the historical Jesus. Virtually every critical scholar who works professionally in this area is persuaded by the evidence, including the famous atheist New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman who finally wrote a book to respond to mythicists. Putting aside your concerns about Messianic expectations and pagan deities for now, what do you find so compelling about Jesus mythicism?
Stop pushing the lie. There were people like Philo who were jews that combined Greek mythology with Judaism and came up with the first theology of what we now call Christianity. Philo was before this man called Jesus. Since the letter "J" didn't inter the alphabet till much later. How do we have a Jew named Jesus.Isuse. Stop it. Most of the people your reference never met the man. Like Paul. Take any man's word for it and run with it.
Is your problem really just with the English translation of a Hebrew name? Grab a copy of the Oxford Classical Dictionary, produced by scholars for scholars and you'll see that zero doubt is raised about whether Jesus really lived. Same thing with the Cambridge Ancient History, a secular account of ancient history. The section on Christianity is written by a famous classicist about the historical Jesus. Virtually every critical scholar who works in this area is persuaded by the evidence, including the famous atheist New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman who finally wrote a book to respond to mythicists. What do you find so compelling about mythicism?
Paul was a Pharisee and likely knew who Jesus was since he often clashed with the Pharisees. Paul's Damascus road experience is key in discussing why he changed from a persecutor of the Christian movement to one of it's chief proponents. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts.
There is no prove here just another claims..
Thanks for watching. There is a virtual consensus on this among PhDs who are experts in ancient history. What kind of evidence would convince you that Jesus existed?
@@apologeticsguy I love how they don't respond.
Sadly, many commenters aren’t really that interested in dialogue.
@@apologeticsguy They will find 45 minutes worth of evidence that Jesus Christ existed, and then just say, "lies." It's genuinely depressing that these people are so scared of serving God that they will do everything in their power to stay away from Him.
I still have my doubts. I wonder why this lecture is even necessary. Not only can you not prove the miracles and tons of ridiculous supernatural claims of the bible, you can’t prove that Jesus or any of the main characters were even historical figures. I remember watching The Bible series on the History Channel about a decade ago, and they presented it like it was actual history. But it’s clearly not. Sure, there are some historical figures and sites mentioned in the bible, but at best you can only label it historical fiction. I feel sorry for anyone taken in by religion. I’d love to see my dead relatives again as well, but I realize wishful thinking’s not gonna work.
History doesn’t work like that. Proof doesn’t mean 100% philosophical certainty so that it’s impossible to be wrong about the sayings or events or existence of a given person in history. But doubting Jesus’ existence is playing into a conspiracy theory, not doing responsible history. I get being skeptical of miracles, but the existence of Jesus as a figure in ancient history is not controversial in classical scholarship or ancient historiography.
The Bible is neither the answer or the question, it is the claim. The Bible makes a claim. The work is to determine if the claims made in the Bible’s are accurate.
For many people, the truth of the Bible's claims are in fact the question in their minds. Investigating how accurate the Bible's claims about Jesus are is in fact the work of Historical Jesus studies. It is a fascinating discipline. Thanks for watching, Talitha.
@@apologeticsguy I get that you were being a bit poetic in your presentation, but you present the Bible as though it could be an answer, when it fact it is the claim. The bible can’t be the answer to its own veracity, that needs to be established externally.
Jesus didn't exist he live.
He is risen indeed!
Great information, but I will make an argument against something you said about the "Jesus Myth Theory."
And that is, that I can think of several valid connections between Jesus and the various pagan concepts.
The fact that Jesus died at the age of 33, on Golgotha (the place of the skull), and was dead for 3 1/2 days (the sky became dark = he died at mid-day) AND the fact that John 3:14 says "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up."
This connects to the Kundalini of the Hindu tradition too perfectly to be "just a coincidence."
I'll explain:
Moses made a bronze (copper + tin) serpent, and hung it on a pole. All who looked up at it were healed of their snake bites.
In alchemical tradition: copper = feminine = negative = yin .... tin = masculine = positive = yang
By mixing the two together, you get a "yin yang" of mixing male and female, positive and negative.
It's also in the shape of a snake, AND it's also associated with the crucifixion.
As for the kundalini, the word "kundalini" = "Kundal" (coiling / serpent) + "ini" (energy) = so it translates to "coiling energy" or "serpent energy"
(note that it's called serpent energy because it coils like a snake, in other words, it is in the SHAPE of a snake.)
the kundalini LIFTS UP the spine (33 vertebrae) to the "place of the skull," where it causes healing and rejuvenating effects
It also coils up the spine 3 1/2 times, and has a positive and negative current (just like Moses' serpent) which flows like an electrical circuit.
The 33 vertebrae of the Kundalini = the 33 years of Jesus' life
when the kundalini (serpent energy) is LIFTED UP to the "place of the skull" = Golgotha
the body is filled with energy (healing, rejuvenation, resurrection)
As for the 2 thieves also crucified with Jesus, this corresponds to the Ida and Pingala (the positive / negative currents moving up / down the spine)
One of the thieves goes UP to heaven, and the other goes DOWN to hell
while the Ida goes UP the spine, and the other goes DOWN the spine, creating a continuous flow of energy.
Not only that, but basically every religion on Earth, all have the same exact "Golden Rule."
I don't think this is just coincidence. And I think the only way you could really dismiss this is if you didn't attempt to examine it at all.
Hey, thanks for engaging with my video. One actual myth is that Jesus was 33 when he died. He was probably 34 or 37 (born around 4 BC) when he was executed so the parrallelomania surrounding the number 33 doesn’t work or call the event into question. Where did you read someone making these connections and promoting Jesus mythicism?
@@apologeticsguy hmm I had heard he was 33 but apparently there is debate on that. But yeah I didn't assume 33 would have been historically accurate, but I thought it would have been written, my mistake.
and it's not a single source. I've studied many sources and put them all together personally.
The fact that he was not 33 means I cannot directly connect it to the 33 vertebrae.
But he could hypothetically still be connected to the serpent of Moses, healing, Ida / Pingala / Shushumna (the 3 crosses / energy paths up and down the spine).
And not a problem, was a great video, thanks for the response
What a pile of crap. Richard Carrier has debunked all these arguments
He is basically alone on this. The existence of Jesus is uncontroversial among virtually all critical scholars with relevant PhDs, including atheist New Testament scholars like Bart Ehrman. Why? Because there is good historical evidence for the life of Jesus.
@@apologeticsguy carrier most certainly is not alone on this. And again all you get from the historicists is the logical fallacy of the argument of from authority.
@@jupitermoongauge4055 It's common to misunderstand a minimal facts approach and think it's an appeal to authority. The key difference is in examining the reasons WHY there is a virtual consensus among scholars across a spectrum of religious belief and those of no faith when it comes to the existence of Jesus.
@@apologeticsguy yes exactly, and you still have presented no valid evidence for the historicity of Jesus and let's face it 99.9999% of Christians couldn't come up with even a slightly credible one either, and they don't care. Your cult has had 2000 years to lie to people so it's no wonder the debate from your side always starts with "EVERBODY believes Jesus really existed" and then on to some debunked flimsy and unscientific drivel. I personally couldn't care less if there really was a Jesus that was the basis for the gospels but as an impartial observer, all I've ever been presented with wouldn't convince anyone in any other aspect of life.
And Frank turek has done the same all the atheists he has debated over the years.