I find it interesting that he says John Murray was influential in moving him toward Federal Vision. Murray, like the FV, flatten out covenant theology into a more monolithic structure. Murray was too strong on justification by faith alone to go down the road that FV has taken, but his covenant theology would have made it logical to do so.
He didn't address the denial of the need for the active obedience of Christ in the presentation of the gospel, the confluence of the covenant of works and covenant of grace, Adam being saved by grace alone through faith alone in the garden, and not through his obedience, and many other unorthodox points of federal vision. He's a deceiver and he knows it.
You are wrong. The Holy Roman Catholic Church is the one founded by Christ. Eastern Orthodoxy is schismatic, Happily many Byzantines have reunited with Apostolic Rome.
Exactly. I had our seminary-trained Elder in a sound PCA church explain Federal Vision to me three different times and I still didn't get it. Seems to be a "thing" in the Pacific Northwest . . .
@@chrismachin2166 Part of American Christians' problem is that our country was born as a rebellion against a monarch. When one comes by faith to Christ we need to realize that He now becomes our reigning King. Obedience to our loving Saviour and ruling King now becomes the central joy of our life! Show me a person who claims Christ as Saviour but who does not obey His teaching and I'll be praying for that person that they accept ALL that becoming a Christian entails.
@@Borzoi86 ..we try to be obedient to the word of God,but we are not JUSTIFIED by faith alone and obedience.If we think our obedience is part of our justification we have no understanding of Grace.
@@chrismachin2166 No argument here. I tried to establish that as rebellious "colonials," Americans are always pre-disposed to rebel against any king even our Eternal Creator King, Jesus Christ. Our triune God elected to express Himself through his Only Begotten Son and His Holy Word. God's Grace is eternally wonderous and available to all who by faith believe! So hard to believe that He would die for such a worm as me but He did. And to establish the validity of this amazing Grace, He defeated dead and rose form the dead. Soli Deo Gloria!
Yeah, but Christ, the crucified One, saves THROUGH word and sacraments. It is God the Holy Spirit who renders word and sacraments effectual and through them applies the salvific work of Christ to the souls of Christians. Peter says that we "have been born again (...) through the living and abiding word of God" (1 Pet 1,23). According to your logic he is thereby substituting the word for Christ, which is, of course, ridiculous, for it is God who saves through the word: "The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul" (Acts 16,14). The sacraments are visible words. Baptism, for example, is called "the washing of water with the word" (Eph 5,26). And God accomplishes His purposes through the word: "So shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it" (Is 55,11). Glory be to God!
justified by Christ alone by grace alone and through faith alone because the blood of Jesus saves to the uttermost because as our High Priest He always makes intercession for us. the bible says little about the supper and baptism and they are not salvific. see Romans 3:23-25
And justifying "faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ" (Rom 10,17). You see, there is no opposition between faith and the word. The sacraments are visible words instituted by Christ. God the Holy Spirit can use the preached word as well as the visibly administered word to create and strengthen faith. "The wind blows where it wishes" (Joh 3,8).
sacraments have no salvific valur, Christ does. as paul said circumcision avail nothing w/o faith. and the passover was a memorial for the night the angel saw the BLOOD and passed over. it's Christ alone through faith not sacraments
Scripture says that we "have been born again (...) through the living and abiding word of God" (1 Pet 1,23). Would you say, then, that the word has no salvific value either? Or would you agree that through the word Christ, the only Saviour, comes to us?
calvinism is evangelicalism. Calvinism, purtianism influenced the whole evangelical mindset. The presbyterian goverment polity influnenced the american government system
what are you talking about? DalPro95 just went off on onewhocomesdown and totally attacked and insulted him without even trying to answer any of his questions. He did not respond to any of his comments. how did onewhocomesdown not 'frame his post accurately'? the response was uncalled for. how can you defend such an action? I actually want to hear back from you. I have a hard time understanding why protestants act the way they do. how in the protestant mind were those insults justifiable?
@DallPro95 You are a very hurtful in your words. Is this Christ like? I admit I was upset with this man Doug because of his attacks against the True Church. I am sorry for these attacks I hope you can forgive me. But to call anyone an idiot and say these things is unchristian and wrong. I lament that the Church is split. I lament that most will not CHOOSE the True Faith. I am sorry for most will go to these "churches" to listen only to that which they wish to hear. Rather than Absolute Truth.
@royal priest "We affirm that Adam was in a covenant of life with the triune God in the Garden of Eden, in which arrangement Adam was required to obey God completely, from the heart. We hold further that all such obedience, had it occurred, would have been rendered from a heart of faith alone, in a spirit of loving trust. Adam was created to progress from immature glory to mature glory, but that glorification too would have been a gift of grace, received by faith alone." - FV statement - They deny the essence of the covenant of works.
Rambling incoherence? Tell me where. Please I beg you. Just answer these questions. Was John Calvin an attorney? Yes or no? Please tell me what was clueless? Again tell me do you believe in free will? Do you believe God pre damns people to hell? Tell me also please where does the Bible say faith alone? Tell me what is inaccurate? What is incoherent? There was no accurate criticism and NO attempt to defend the false beliefs of the Calvinist Church! Do you know who started the Orthodox Church?
I find it interesting that he says John Murray was influential in moving him toward Federal Vision. Murray, like the FV, flatten out covenant theology into a more monolithic structure. Murray was too strong on justification by faith alone to go down the road that FV has taken, but his covenant theology would have made it logical to do so.
What book is he talking about ? Minutes of the Westminster assembly
Doug Wilson's book 'reformed is not enough' affirms baptismal regeneration. Removing regeneration by the holy spirit upon believing the gospel.
Yeah the Federal stuff is garbage
What is the early mention of Macon, GA referring to?
MonteHarmon He's using it as a metonym for evangelicalism, just as he uses Geneva for Calvinism.
I’m not wholly convinced. Scripture is somewhat silent on it...
He didn't address the denial of the need for the active obedience of Christ in the presentation of the gospel, the confluence of the covenant of works and covenant of grace, Adam being saved by grace alone through faith alone in the garden, and not through his obedience, and many other unorthodox points of federal vision. He's a deceiver and he knows it.
I agree totally The Eastern Orthodox Church is the one true church
You are wrong. The Holy Roman Catholic Church is the one founded by Christ. Eastern Orthodoxy is schismatic, Happily many Byzantines have reunited with Apostolic Rome.
@@EmmanuelGoldstein74 Both are apostate.
What is federal vision ?
Exactly. I had our seminary-trained Elder in a sound PCA church explain Federal Vision to me three different times and I still didn't get it. Seems to be a "thing" in the Pacific Northwest . . .
@@Borzoi86Federal Vision doesn’t believe we are justified by Faith Alone,in Christ Alone. They try to sneak in Justified by Faith Alone + obedience .
@@chrismachin2166 Part of American Christians' problem is that our country was born as a rebellion against a monarch. When one comes by faith to Christ we need to realize that He now becomes our reigning King. Obedience to our loving Saviour and ruling King now becomes the central joy of our life! Show me a person who claims Christ as Saviour but who does not obey His teaching and I'll be praying for that person that they accept ALL that becoming a Christian entails.
@@Borzoi86 ..we try to be obedient to the word of God,but we are not JUSTIFIED by faith alone and obedience.If we think our obedience is part of our justification we have no understanding of Grace.
@@chrismachin2166 No argument here. I tried to establish that as rebellious "colonials," Americans are always pre-disposed to rebel against any king even our Eternal Creator King, Jesus Christ. Our triune God elected to express Himself through his Only Begotten Son and His Holy Word. God's Grace is eternally wonderous and available to all who by faith believe! So hard to believe that He would die for such a worm as me but He did. And to establish the validity of this amazing Grace, He defeated dead and rose form the dead. Soli Deo Gloria!
I knew you had to have come from Georgia at some point!
we can come to God through the cross of Christ, or we can try to substitute sacraments. Christ and Him crucified saves.
Yeah, but Christ, the crucified One, saves THROUGH word and sacraments. It is God the Holy Spirit who renders word and sacraments effectual and through them applies the salvific work of Christ to the souls of Christians. Peter says that we "have been born again (...) through the living and abiding word of God" (1 Pet 1,23). According to your logic he is thereby substituting the word for Christ, which is, of course, ridiculous, for it is God who saves through the word: "The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul" (Acts 16,14). The sacraments are visible words. Baptism, for example, is called "the washing of water with the word" (Eph 5,26). And God accomplishes His purposes through the word: "So shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it" (Is 55,11). Glory be to God!
justified by Christ alone by grace alone and through faith alone because the blood of Jesus saves to the uttermost because as our High Priest He always makes intercession for us. the bible says little about the supper and baptism and they are not salvific. see Romans 3:23-25
And justifying "faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ" (Rom 10,17). You see, there is no opposition between faith and the word. The sacraments are visible words instituted by Christ. God the Holy Spirit can use the preached word as well as the visibly administered word to create and strengthen faith. "The wind blows where it wishes" (Joh 3,8).
sacraments have no salvific valur, Christ does. as paul said circumcision avail nothing w/o faith. and the passover was a memorial for the night the angel saw the BLOOD and passed over. it's Christ alone through faith not sacraments
Scripture says that we "have been born again (...) through the living and abiding word of God" (1 Pet 1,23). Would you say, then, that the word has no salvific value either? Or would you agree that through the word Christ, the only Saviour, comes to us?
calvinism is evangelicalism. Calvinism, purtianism influenced the whole evangelical mindset. The presbyterian goverment polity influnenced the american government system
what are you talking about? DalPro95 just went off on onewhocomesdown and totally attacked and insulted him without even trying to answer any of his questions. He did not respond to any of his comments. how did onewhocomesdown not 'frame his post accurately'? the response was uncalled for. how can you defend such an action? I actually want to hear back from you. I have a hard time understanding why protestants act the way they do. how in the protestant mind were those insults justifiable?
Ohhh so FV baptism regenerates us, not the Holy Spirit. Hard pass
@DallPro95 You are a very hurtful in your words. Is this Christ like? I admit I was upset with this man Doug because of his attacks against the True Church. I am sorry for these attacks I hope you can forgive me. But to call anyone an idiot and say these things is unchristian and wrong. I lament that the Church is split. I lament that most will not CHOOSE the True Faith. I am sorry for most will go to these "churches" to listen only to that which they wish to hear. Rather than Absolute Truth.
Doug Wilson is a deceiver.
@royal priest how
@royal priest he’s a false teacher
@royal priest years of teaching works righteousness, paedocommunion, sacerdotalism, and many other errors.
@royal priest lol no evidence aside from all the articles he wrote + the joined FV statement he signed under
@royal priest "We affirm that Adam was in a covenant of life with the triune God in the Garden of Eden, in which arrangement Adam was required to obey God completely, from the heart. We hold further that all such obedience, had it occurred, would have been rendered from a heart of faith alone, in a spirit of loving trust. Adam was created to progress from immature glory to mature glory, but that glorification too would have been a gift of grace, received by faith alone." - FV statement - They deny the essence of the covenant of works.
Rambling incoherence? Tell me where. Please I beg you. Just answer these questions. Was John Calvin an attorney? Yes or no? Please tell me what was clueless? Again tell me do you believe in free will? Do you believe God pre damns people to hell? Tell me also please where does the Bible say faith alone? Tell me what is inaccurate? What is incoherent? There was no accurate criticism and NO attempt to defend the false beliefs of the Calvinist Church! Do you know who started the Orthodox Church?
“Where does the Bible say faith alone?” Galatians chapter 3 explains.