Native American history needs to be presented more. The 'noble savage' idea of NA's being this monolithic group who were peaceful, friendly and in tune with nature has done so much damage. They were people, human beings, capable of great valour and great evil like the rest of us, and like the rest of us, they fought and traded with each other, sometimes brutally.
not only that but it makes the natives seem way less cool by portraying them as always on the back foot rather than as the epic warriors they could often be
I was in the Air Force with an Apache who grew up on a reservation in northern New Mexico....people talk about the Irish or us Southerners holding a grudge,,,he never missed a chance to knock the Comanche, the Spanish and the Mexicans...He and I hunted all over Wyoming and Colorado....he knew the Earth...This has been an excellent presentation....a little known bit of American history.
@@spurtikus1 Let me put it this way: I am trying to be an effective teacher who happens to be a straight white male. Unfortunately, identity trumps competency. I am frequently reminded by school LEADERSHIP that I am by birth an Oppressor. I survived the Catholic Church, but they will not grant me the title of Survivor. It's unfair! It's outrageous!
West Texas Comanche here - Fantastic channel and episode. Very informative. I'm familiar with the general topic, as many stories (this one, for sure) are passed down from generation to generation in our family. I think the only part I'd differ on would be on when the Comanche were introduced to the Spanish Mustang. Coronado and subsequent expeditions from 1540s to the 1580s came into contact with Comanche bands in Western Kansas. In the stories passed down, this is the time frame they were introduced. It took many years to master, though. And also - the Comanche took to breeding because they learned how (and why) from the Spaniards. Not saying every band of the tribe, but I can tell you that two bands for sure were very friendly with the Spaniards early on - one of them I descend from. Elders put their twists on history when it is passed down, but the 'meat' of it us very accurate. Over the next century and a half, the horsemanship and tactics would expand to all Comanche bands. Understand that the need for more resources only came as they became completely mobile, leaving all agrarian life behind.
Native American history is fascinating yet tragic, it’s worth to study and to draw inspiration from. Thank you for still being with us after centuries-long genocide! You’re one of a kind race!
This makes more sense. In the video it seems like the Comanche happened upon the escaped horses and mastered riding and fighting on them within a few years or even months. Maybe the escaped horses did give them a numerical advantage they didn't have before, but it seems probable that they had already mastered warfare on horseback.
Do you have any local sources that could confirm this story above? I really like having a story be true on multiple fronts. Would you be able to document those sources? Historian & Dine' guy here from AZ is asking. TY.
it is common in most nomadic people's to be honest, the situation also shows ricardo's law in action basically the comanche saw the succes the appache had with horses but also realised that they essentially just used them more as transport to and from than anything else. all of that makes a lot of sense when you realise how heavily what can be done on horseback has been dependent on technology, the romans had four pronged saddles that held them in place on top (before that horses could sparsely be used in (at least melee) combat outside of charriots)but which still required them to clamp on with their thighs to stay in the saddle, the stirrup was invented in the central asian steppe, it allowed for much more mobility in the saddle, the single horn saddle was invented in medieval western europe. the commanche essentially didn't have any of that..... and somehow mannaged to make that their advantage, not being locked in a saddle (and with extreme levels of training to learn to do so) they learned to do things such as riding their horses whilst hanging off their sides, if you saw what seems like a herd of wild horses on the plains, in the distance, whilst it was kind of getting dark.... well it might allready have been to late for you. though it does have to be pointed out that we see similar feats being performed in shows by steppe peoples in Eurasia all over so I would argue that the mongols may have had similar skills, and as for those stirups, they make it much easier to guide a horse but you don't have to use them if you require more flexibility (and in fact we know that during his early rise, genghis khan also used the tactic of hanging on the side of horses covered in essentially wicker shields on the other side to win a battle, being able to surprise them by going for more close quarters than was usual
Effective use of horse archers and quick raids. Also used by South American natives like the Mapuche of Peru, various Turkic and Iranic people, and even some Europeans like the Cossacks. A well armed cavalry host or even a small collection of well trained skirmishers can make life miserable and short for the enemy.
@@istoppedcaring6209 another thing about the Stirrup is that it allows you to have something to stand on and thus use your back muscle's to Pull 100-150 pound bows which the mongols did // The Comanche did not use that heavy poundage bows, they only used 60-70 pound bows which did not require a stirrup and could be pulled with just arm strength
@@aburoach9268 true, it is also why longbowmen used to stand in a certain way whilst firing on foot, they had to utilise those backmuscles as much as possible
Mongols used the same tactics that was used before them by numerous nomadic Turkic peoples, such as Scythians, Huns, Gokturks, Avars, Pechenegs, Kipchaks (Cumans), Seljuks, etc. Mongols were just the latest ones and were able to conquer the largest territory.
Comanche v. Apache v. Spanish/Mexican v. American is easily one of the most colorful epochs in North America history. As a kid I grew up in Oklahoma, just miles away from Quanah Parker’s home. In High School I learned Oklahoma history and my teacher was a slightly militant Native American woman. She was great and she sparked a love of this I have had ever since. Great vid!
That's like saying a teacher was militant Eastern Hemisphere. Which nation or "tribe" did she support stealing land from and enslaving other tribes? Or do you mean she was just anti-White?
It also kind of puts a damper on the automatic 'native-good-white-man-bad' complex that's been taught and, ah...rather insisted on, from certain quarters. Natives fought natives, brutally, for decades and centuries, before the others ever even arrived.
@@noahhyde8769 for reals. For example, the Sioux regard the Black Hills as their 'sacred ancestorial lands'. Conspicuously missing from the discussion is the Sioux stole the land in a war of extermination against the Cheyenne, Crow, Kiowa and the Arapaho in the 1700s. Somehow only the white man is the transgressor.
I was raised in the San Francisco Bay Area. Everything in the east and south bay is named after Juan Bautista de Anza! He led an expedition there is 1776 to explore the area around the San Francisco bay. I had no idea he was involved in the Apache and Commanche conflicts. It's so cool to see connections in history!
He defeated comanches´s union of Cuerno Verde ( Green horn, father and son), got peace with comanches in all the crown territories and it remained so until Spain leave in 1821. The main force at that time were the " Dragones de Cuera"( spanish from Spain, New Spain, even some other nations) , regular soldiers commanded by Anza, helped by regular enlisted( and paid) "Auxiliares", mostly of them christian apaches. And this suppoused historician ignores nearly every thing about that time and that place. Don´t trust in his words. He repeats fake WASP tales.
@@carlosgracia9888 _"He repeats fake WASP tales."_ Everything else is completely fabricated _oral traditions._ WASPs (Bearded White Gods) are the only reason that you know anything, so questioning their sole record of events is quite ridiculous.
In Fact Anza was a spaniard born near the current border of New Mexico. A curious aspect I read somewhere in Spain is that spaniards went to the North of California because indians had told them that there were people like them over there trading with fur... the spaniards knew they couldnt be britons, so they went over there and found russians. Quickly they decided to stablish a presidio and city in what is now San Francisco and therefore stop the russians dont let them take the north of California once the russians had started going down from Alaska.
I am part Apache (and Cherokee), still living in Texas. Thank you for putting together such a well laid out and detailed summary of the many events. Well done. You have a new sub off this 👍
I’m part Apache and Choctaw, and also live in Texas. Most of this was actually taught in the little, rural, Texas school district I attended. We learned Texas Geography and History together. Once you know the geography of an area, its history tends to make more sense.
@@kinidiosodlosios6892 My grandmother taught me some as a kid, but her father was REAL big into making sure all the kids learned to speak and write good English so they could have the best chance of succeeding in the "white mans world" (He was born in the 1930's, much different time where that thought process was absolutely justified). Good question though! Sometimes I wish I could remember more of it or that I had learned even more, but honestly I already speak 2 languages fluently and a third in a working proficiency (in my line of work, I come across folks of many linguistic backgrounds), so considering the last time I ever spoke to someone else in that tongue was when I was a legit little kid, I dont think it matters much to my life.
The Apache gambit of convincing the Spanish to unknowingly build on Comanche land is deliciously clever, even though it didn't work. That kind of chess is rarely shown in pop culture history, because it flies so far in the face of either positive (noble savage) or negative stereotypes (regular savage).
@Lamar Davis This doesn't seem like an apt comparison. It would make more sense to compare the people of their time, wouldn't it? Or compare the groups at similar levels of technological development? I'm sure if the Comanche had machine guns during their feuds with the other tribes. They would not have taken issue using them. And if the Comanche's brutality was present during the world wars, the results would not have been better and Dare I say, they would have been much worse. It's better to make comparisons that make sense. During the Comanche's time, the Spanish were just another group to contend with. Just like all other tribes and nations did across the globe.
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist9 Ah, we were wondering when you'd grace us with an appearance. It seems these comment sections aren't quite complete, until one of you lot weighs in. I'm a pragmatic agnostic, but here's one I've always liked, which might be applicable to you: "For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies." 2 Thess. 3:11 (KJV)
Deliciously clever? They disrespected the agreement and caused the unnecessary death of people. I don't know how you find enjoyment with this, but the outcome was expected, they should have known that. They could have gotten peace if they held to the agreements, both the Comanche and Apache might have been alive in greater numbers. It was not only not deliciously clever but the exact opposite, it was malicious stupidity.
@@Eraphion No... It'd be a black woman Comanche chieftain... Maybe even a black "woman" Comanche chieftan. Oh that would be so... brave. *eyebrow wiggle
One aspect to the Comanche I found interesting was their mastery of the horse, of course, and how they developed into the best fighters off the animal. It was how well they trained off the back of their horses and almost importantly was how they saved their warriors from succumbing to their enemy.They achieved this through their ability to swoop in during a battle and literally lift a wounded fellow warrior off the ground running at full speed, and swing the warrior up on the back of their horse. This took tremendous amounts of practice and strengthening exercises performing that feat. They learned to do this from young ages. I believe it gave the entire tribe a trust they wouldn't be left behind and that they would die for one another. Perhaps that is one of the reasons they fought so hard.
@@felipegarcia5114 the horse was originally native to the Americas, there are theories that there were already original Native American horse breeds in North America that inter-bred with the horses that were brought with colonisation by the Spaniards. If you think about it, horses evolved and potentially travelled with nomadic humans for hundreds of thousands of years, certainly long long before the colonisation of the Americas by Europeans in the last few centuries. Therefore it was certainly possible horses could have already been in the Americas as both indigenous wild species and also brought with the nomadic Native American tribes when they first came from Asia. There's no reason to think that Native Americans never saw a horse before. Just the 'Western European eye' always thinks everything revolves around itself, and never thinks about the complexity of reality of the rest of the world / universe / nature / history. outside of itself etc. We probably still have much to discover. There are Comanche narratives today that say that they kept horses before the 'Spanish horses' appeared and then interbred with native blood-lines, before then being dominated by the British DNA blood-lines shortly after. There are the Bakshir curly haired horses for example that are described as having been documented as being owned by the Sioux but then being almost exterminated due to being 'different' under colonialism. There are horses held within indigenous communities with dark stripes on their spine still to this day. History is now being re-written, but maybe it will take time for the full truth to emerge, of how the indigenous Native American horses were originally integral to Native American society and already here, long before the white man turned up. Just as the Native American people were massacred, so were their horses, but at least some Native breeds still remain and are being protected to save them from extinction to this day. www.yesmagazine.org/environment/2020/04/27/native-horses-indigenous-history
The Numunu braided their horses main into a loop where they would hook their arm into it and would hang under the horses neck revealing only one leg draped over the back. Plus the Numunu used the smallest dream catchers for target shooting. 9 inches across. Even my aim is pretty good and I don't practice. Dream catchers were used like a dart board, but rolled on the ground and the one nearest to the middle won. Not the stupid made up lie about catching dreams. Spears with barbs were used and bets were also placed. Numunu men could shoot arrows accurately from under the horses neck. Plus Numunu men broke horses in shallow rivers and creeks, so if you got bucked off no pain and it would tire the horse out faster. Plus they used mares in estrus to draw stallions. This is the answer to the other supposed Comanche indian that didn't know that.
I never heard these stories. Truly fascinating. Human beings are so...violent. But I can't imagine being a European in such an alien territory and being terrified by the bright moon illuminating the plains.
@@datesanddeadguys I dont trust Google to truthfully reply to many things in history that can falsely influence present agendas. So I wanted to ask, Is it true that American Indians learned scalping from the English? And what facts exist (around that use of fear) in westward expansion? Great job on the channel/ video- best regards.
Yes and No. There is pretty irrefutable archeological evidence of scalping centuries before the arrival of Europeans to the new world. It has been falsely pushed by different authors that natives learned it from Europeans, most notably Howard Zinn (at least that I am aware of). What is true is that the English and other Europeans absolutely benefited from Native Americans scalping. They would often pay bounties for scalps the I would have to bet made the practice more common. This series for the example has focused on the Apache. It was not a common cultural practice for them but they would capitalize on bounties. Neighbors though, like the Comanche did it commonly regardless of outside influence. In summary, The practice existed and was used prior to European arrival but it was also influenced by Europeans.
Its amazing how different and similar we are. Largely we're a product of our geography. The Comanche's sound very similar to the mongols in the way they waged war.
Yes, they do. I do see it a little differently though, the Comanche used similar tactics as the Mongols but did not wage war with the same tenacity as the Mongols. Interestingly, as I watched the video above I too had thoughts of how similar the swiftness and deadliness of the Comanche attack were to those of the Mongols.
Yess, except the mongols had superior strategy (all mongols were requried to have 5 horses), bows, and battlefield tactics (faking retreats to lure enemies into a trap) thus would have slaughtered the Comanche.
@@musicmadgic6931 mongols conquered more territory in 20 years than Rome did in it's entire existence. Mongols would have crushed the Comanche and Apache simultaneously.
@@TingTingalingy Comanche didn't set out to conquer, they raided and roamed. What makes you believe same numbers group Mongols could beat Comanches (mounted, bow / long af lance) when it took literary half of continent, guns and STDS(because of tea-bagging noobs) to stop them?
I just subscribed to your channel. My son in Florida sent your link to me. I’m now seventy two and from my earliest recollections have had an intense respect and fascination with Native people. I grew up in Colorado and we would travel through states with wonderful history of Native people. I’m obsessed with the culture and history. You are a wonderful narrator. Thank you for bringing so much information to light. ❤
Very nice presentation. You've done a great job of absorbing numerous sources and weaving them together into a fine, well-paced narrative. I'd never heard - in depth, anyway - of the Apache & Comanche war. Thanks for providing such a great introduction for me!
@@datesanddeadguys Thank you too. As an European, I'm completely ignorant about "native" American history. But then again, humans are humans, and we are not as cute as cats. (what a cruel, war mongering species we are)
@@worfoz if you would like to learn more about the Comanche in particular and the Indian tribes that they came in contact with in general ,then I can wholeheartedly recommend the book Empire of the Summer Moon by SC Gwynne . It is loaded with historical facts about the Comanche tribe and its surrounding neighbors . It is exhaustively researched and well written.
@@jackburton5483 I tried to study cultural antropology once, so in my view, Gwynne would show me how modern American culture looks at the Comanche culture, revealing the very nature of American main stream culture. I mean: The '59 movie Ben Hur reveals a lot about American imperialism at that time, but not about Rome...
Yup, you are right. With the political tones in this country the native Indians are spoken of as the poor minorities. This is used as leverage for one political party to gain what it is that they want over the other political party for power. I went to a private school in Indiana and American history taught by the Nuns was first class. Politicians are destroying this country faster than history can create it. Sad........elections have consequences.
Brilliant. I had also heard from a old man that was raised around San Saba that the Commanche were the only Indians who would fight at night. The other tribes would not want to get killed at night because it would mean thier souls would be lost and wander forever. At least that was what was told to him as a boy.
My ancestors fought at night. Chichimec and Moskitos fought at night. In fact, Moskitos were hired to guard the Panama Canal. No one screwed with them, and they turned prisoners (anarchists) over to local Carib, who guarded in the day.
I hsve died thru the night. Physical death. Spirit and body reunion 12 hrs later. Not awate of exact route either way. Altiugh just ovet tbe horizon on eastern sky plains is ehete i beliece i went. Coming back i wad wasted. So had to be a guide to do it
I can’t believe it took this long for UA-cam to recommend your channel. I’m so impressed! Keep up the great work. And thank you for all the great content!!
I learned this as a child while living in phoenix for several years with my family. There was an Apache family several houses down and became friends and heard this from the grandfather. I never forgot it and wondered why this was not covered in school books or in class. As a young man l found information slowly hints about the war between the apaches and the Comanches. Also how the after effect that brought the apaches to Arizona.
Well, if we learned the TRUE history of the Native American Indigenous population; a fuck ton of modern narratives of "white man baaaaaad" would be sunk to the bottom of davy jones locker
You didn't hear about it from any official source because it would destroy the myth of the Noble Savage! And you won't hear about it now because it would destroy the narrative of the Noble Savage who was so badly treated by the European colonists.
The beginning story of the Comanche is very similar to the beginning story of the Aztecs. Both were outcast tribes that found a source of power. The Comanche with the horse and the Aztec with their resoursefulness to where they ended up. And both were brutally vengeful people
Aztecs originally came from the North (what would is the US today), essentially kicked out by other tribes or fleeing, we don't know exactly what happens but they are not welcome anymore and they begin their long exodus that eventually brings them to the valley of mexico where they sell themselves as mercenaries and labor until the nations of the valley of Mexico find them too cumbersome and refuse to give them a place to settle, they eventually see the eagle eating the serpent, the sign announced by their late leader Tenoch. They see the sign in a marsh where local nations finally agree they can settle... fast-forward and they turn the marsh into habitable and agricultural land and eventually turn on nations that had exploited them and go on conquering roughly what is midern day mexico. It's not impossible they might have been the same peoples as the Comanche
@@gaslampnation735 if the US forces had used the Indian wars rules of engagement the war in Afghanistan would have been over by 2003 and 85% of the population would have been gone. Don't compare apples and oranges. The war in Afghanistan was fought with 2 arms and a leg tied behind our backs because our politicians and military industrial complex wanted to spin it out for decades. Trust me it only ended because they started planning this Ukraine thing....
My father described hearing an actual Comanche war cry. He was a child, and the Comanche man was old, but he said it was blood-curdling. The idea of being a Disney-Circle-Of-Life peaceful people is something they would have found disgraceful. One thing I didn't hear you mention is that in addition to stealing supplies and killing rival men, they would take women and children and make them part of the tribe. There is a concept of "replacement population", and it was a lot easier to maintain that way.
This was very, very well done. I've sub'd. As a point of interest from Fehrenbach's book, the Comanche got along very well with the Americans (trading horses) and the army as long as the latter didn't ask about hostages. It was the Spanish and Texans that they hated.
I don’t think anyone hated the Spanish more than Geronimo, that dude had a personal vendetta to kill every single one of them that he came across. Comanches would kill anyone that crossed their boundaries no matter who they were. I never understood why the mission line from Spanish Mexico abruptly turned due West from San Antonio and followed the border all the way to California. One of the most well equipped and well trained armies in the world didn’t want nothing to do with the Comancheria lol.
@@jackburton5483 comes done to cost. for Spain to wipe out the comanche would require massive outlays of capital and man power from across the Spanish empire, and it was not worth it. for the record the comache were successful because they attacked small isolated settlements. they preyed on the weak but avoided major battles unless they had clear advantage. the Spanish they fought were primarily the "local" garrisons that were mostly poorly led and often poorly trained (an issue with the Spanish colonies that persisted till the Mexican revolution, and after). if it came to a dedicated effort to exterminate the Spanish could call on vastly more manpower than the comanche had people but to do so would pull forces from Spain itself and the other colonies many of which had their own issues to deal with. end of the day the kill the comanche was not worth the effort so a simple redirection of the border was done
Agree 👍 Exactly Y I just Subscribe. I love history an thought I knew about the West's Indians. However I was Rong. The Indians had Huge Wars going on. In land disputes. Over Huge Tracts of land. Just the Weapons Tech at first primitive wood & Rocks. Horses even came Europe. IRON
@@jackburton5483 It was Mexicans that Geronimo hated, not Spaniards. They had been gone for decades by the time Geronimo was born. Mexican troops killed Gernomino's family at Janos during a trading trip.
Not really no. Russell means was way more accurate on indigenous peoples history of turtle island. This is white washed garbage and you all are brainwashed
A book that goes into a deep dive for this period is Pekka Hamalainen's "The Comanche Empire". One interesting thing I learned from that book that this lecture kind of touches on is that the Spanish engagement with Comanche were night and day between New Mexico (peaceful relations) and Texas (terrible relations full of conflict), especially as it got into the 19th Century (after the period of this video). One thing that this lecture suggests is that the role of the Apache played into that in this early stage.
This is actually horrific. The idea of a group of people (or even anything for that matter!) who can at any moment at night show up, murder you and everybody close to you, and then disappear right away, impossible to find with nothing to do about it is definitely something that scratches our primal instincts of why we feel scared as an emotion in the first place. Nothing can compare to the horror of what humanity can do to itself.
Welcome to the european seas of old with the Vikings, and to the Mediterranean Sea with that PLUS arab, berber and turkish raids. Welcome to east europe raided by tatars. And as Italian, I guarantee Venetians and Genoese weren't that better behaved.
I grew up on a farm in the Caprock Canyon, which is the southern section of the Palo Duro Canyon where the Comanche made their last stand. My family has collected lots of arrow heads, and usually donated to the Texas Tech University Department of History. For anyone interested in Native American history the book "1491" by Charles Mann is an excellent introduction to Aztec, Mayan, and Inca cultures as best we can tell.
How can someone living at the edge of Africa get hold of a Comanche relic (arrow head)? Ive never been near America but my heart has always been with the Native Americans. I would kill for something from them
Now, why would anybody want to read that? The Indian tribes lost to the more unified and intelligent caucasian race, and thank goodness they did! Want to live in a tipi? Didn't think so.
im 13 from west texas and me and my father/grandpa are half Comanche and for the past three days or so i have been learning more about my culture this is really great content explaining comache and apache's history
@Skate_Health fun part about history is seeing how the Spanish approach failed while the US succeeded to conquer the west the spanish had to fortify missions due to their centralized approach of governing citizens weren't allowed to own guns so they had to rely on the military to protect them from raids preventing growth while the US allowing gun ownership allowed for settlers to fight back against the natives when they would raid settlements making confrontation with settlements more costly
Fascinating, as a Swedish person i never really got to learn that much about North American native history. Thanks for a bit of education in the subject, liked your style and also the way you told it felt unbiased!
I just finished reading The Searchers, which is, apparently, based on a true story, and it bears out much of what you say about the Comanches. It took over 20 years for some Texans to track down a particular band of Comanches and a girl they had kidnapped because of how much they moved around. It even describes almost identically the Comanche skill as mounted combatants.
I knew people didn't that movie for using white actors to play the Comanche, but I was unsure how they felt about depicted them as violent raiders. Know I now it had some historical basis.
I knew that the Comanches and Apaches might have come to blows at times but I had no idea that there was a concerted effort to exterminate the Apache on the part of the Comanche. A very interesting video.
That's the result of liberal teaching in the public education system and other facets of Liberal ideologies. The idea is to create a, us versus them world and culture. White people are the enemy. They are the oppressors and always have been and always will be. Every other race, is just the victim and has never done anything wrong. Any violence ever attributed to minorities or in this case Native American Indians is always written out as a defensive measure, never offensive. Some of the earlier tales of Christopher Columbus, tell of him helping out some indian tribes against another indian tribes, because they would war with eachother and then eat eachother because they were cannibals. I didn't learn about that in school it was only when I was out of school and did the research myself. That sort of history, goes against the narrative, so it is suppressed.
@@madjayhawk Well thr comanche were cannibals who tortured people brutally. The apache practiced less cannibalism, but they still tortured people just as brutally
As someone with little knowledge of the history of north and south America, the book Empire of the Summer Moon blew me away. All about the Comanche and their last chief, who was half white due to them kidnapping his mother when she was a child. It's a wild ride and epic history.
I highly recommend the book "Empire of the Summer Moon" by S. C. Gwynne. It is one of the best history books I have ever read. And I love that you're teaching your daughter such history.
i did some road work with the navajos.Pretty easy going friendly folks with a good sense of humor.If you drink with them you take your chances.Fights are common
My GG Grandmother was a full blooded Mescalero Apache. My GG Grandfather and his dad farmed near the foothills north of Las Cruces. The local Apache tribe was starving and mere remnants of former numbers. Only a few hundred remained by 1870. They traded elk meat and hides for other foodstuffs with my ancestor but warned him never to enter the mountains and kill THIER Elk. All still lived in terror of the Comanche raids to cleanse New Mexico of the Spanish. I read somewhere that the Mescaleros invited small numbers of Comanche to join the Mescalero reservation but have not confirmed that comment.
Would love to see a video on the Cherokee and Creek conflicts. You rarely see anything on it, but large amounts of Creek territory were displaced by Cherokee, before the Cherokee then being displaced themselves.
We heard about how the Muskogee often were at war with the Cherokee in Northern Alabama. The Cherokees also helped Andrew Jackson defeat the Muskogee ay The Battle of Horseshoe Bend. Jackson betrayed them later though with the Indian Removal Act of 1830.
prairie nigers lived in states of constant brutal violence. Empathy was a european trait. But of course in an age of dewhitification of humanity, true history is lost.
@@Daron7181 Yeah.... the Cherokee are often sort of presented as innocent and peaceful, and almost naïve. They were anything but originally, they came into the south and Carolinas, TN, GA etc dominating the local tribes as a very expansionist group themselves. They were known to love hunting and waring, and the preferred the latter at that time. (words of another tribe I read) They made war with the colonists at first, including several grim massacres, but when they realized that wasn't working they quickly adapted to the NEW English culture, traded with them, and took advantage and adapted their technology. Under the new western culture they flourished, they created their own writing, they became very much apart of colonial America, adopting western farming, housing, and lifestyle, but they also got a little soft. The Trail of Tears was by far one of the darkest moments in American history, and esp where I live it tore local families apart that were very much a mix of settlers and Cherokee. It was a complete betrayal of a people who had become allies to the fledgling states. MANY so called "white" families in East Tennessee were in fact predominantly Cherokee. However if we're to be honest historically, I am sure many southern tribes would have seen it as Karma as the Cherokee had displaced many tribes before them and then helped the likes of Jackson in the Indian wars. I think the entire history of the Cherokee is interesting, and I wish we could remove the lens of modern PC, revision, and take a look at them as they were, and their entire arch. From fierce warriors to educated and civilized farmers, to victims of their own success. After all the whole reason for the Indian Removal Act was lust for the successful and bountiful farms and settlements they had created by newcomers who had no history with them. Older colonial families saw them as part of their community and had married in with them. Still I know little about teh pre-Columbian history or even their very early history coming into the southern areas, I would really like to learn more and separate the fact from the myths.
@@SargNickFury Ultimately White man's desire to conquer everyone and everything caused this conflict. White man's presence, pressure, and taking of land and resources FORCED Native American tribes to move and relocate, causing them to have conflict with other groups of Native Americans. White man nearly drove the bison to extinction because they wanted the bison's hide, but, also they knew that by eliminating bison, they'd be eliminating the main food source of Native Americans.
Empire of the summer moon started me on this part of American history..so fascinating to learn of pre-colonial era warriors. The Comanche story is impressive-their adaptation to mounted nomadic warriors living primarily on meat reminds me of the Mongols
Wow this is the most detailed telling of this I have ever heard. My great, great grandfather was Chiricahua from the Gila area in AZ. Thank you for sharing this forgotten history.
Are you even for real and have you looked in the 🪞 carefully at yourself? 😂 You are a descendant of pale-face colonizers and because you may have the blood of the people do not make you our people. Feel how you want to because many of us do not claim generational mutts as our people.
What a great video! As a European I had no idea of this section of history. I guess having been spoon fed westerns, Karl May's stories, history lessons about the Frontier pushing west and General Custer's expeditions as well as a lot of New Age idolatrie of how they lived in harmony with nature, it's great to hear more about the native Indian tribes and their fate and exploits. The way the Comanches fought reminds me of how the Mongols and earlier peoples from the Asian steppes (like the Huns) did. I wonder if the Comanches also applied feint retreats to lure an enemy in breaking formation and then turning around to surround small units and annihilate them one by one. Given their brutality and single mindedness it seems like something they could have done. And I'm quite eager to learn how the Apaches fared. Can't wait for the follow up!
As a Germanic/ Norse man I spent my life on basically the History of my peoples. I have more recently explored the early interactions in the NYC area from early on in the interactions between the 2 . Great review! loved it
Very interesting. Thanks for making this. We're doing a disservice by not teaching the complete history of Native Americans. They were much more than the stoic, peaceful , erudite, and condescending stereotype we constantly see in pop culture. They were human just like we are. They had their good and bad same as anyone else.
As a european boy I loved to read Fenimor Cooper"s books about Hawks Eye and Karl May's Winnetou series. Allways wondered why the Iroquois or Comanche fought other tribes. Thanks for revealing that!!! There were so many agressors on the american continent, that is still amazing there are natives alive.
Not quite as long as there’s game and housing materials humans tend to experience population booms. Needing to create wealth in order to live takes a much greater deal of importance once a financial system regulates people’s lives and controls how they spend their time if they don’t want their stuff taken away though
@Lamar Davis you act as if they didn't do it among themselves first. prior to the Europeans they were actively murdering each other to the tune of massacre in d major for generations. the Europeans were just better at it. there are no remaining natives who live completely but the old tribal traditions because many such traditions no longer have a useful place in the world. much like the native languages they are dying because the children of the tribes increasingly stop learning them due to lack of utility. the cree language as an example is useful only among the cree, and they do no make a large enough nor concentrated enough group to get much use from it. it sucks but such is life
@Lamar Davis the world gets ruled by the survivors so yes in that time being better at killing is a desirable civilization trait. the fallacy is trying to assign Europe bad because they moved into others lands and took over. while excusing the same behavior of the ones who were pushed out. the point is the native tribes were as happy to extinct each other as the Europeans were to help them. the whole reason the comanche went after the apache is because the apache pushed them out, and as soon as the comanche got the chance they did the same right back. all the European powers were doing was playing the big boy version of the same game. the story would have been the exact same regardless of if it had been the Polynesians in charge or china or the Zulu. no nation on earth in that time given the chance and power of the European powers would have hesitated to do the same or worse than was done (and there were vastly worse peoples to be taken over by than the French and brits). how are you defining the worst wars? as I can thing of several wars of extermination in Asia, for example Genghis was fond of extinction events to show his displeasure. the wars between the Hutu's and tootsies in Rwanda get pretty far down the horror slope. if your just talking casualties then yes the largest corpse piles are in Europe but beyond size they mostly were not that bad as Europe stopped doing wars of extermination fairly early on. the thing is you need to define what traits your assigning as bad because the metrics change with the assigned traits. Europe for example has little signs of eating or sacrificing prisoners but Polynesia and south America not so much. what rights are stripped and a when? north America has had Europeans for near 500 yrs and the powers are not monoliths what was condoned by Spain was condemned by the British more often than not. as of today no right of citizenship is denied any native in the US. if as a native you desire to work or live anywhere you are free to do so. granted that was not always the case but that is the US not every north American nation. so for clarity what time frame and what specifics are you talking of. if it is historical chances are I will agree with you depending on when and what as some actions taken were seen as bad even by the people of the time. others were just the standard of the day in which case I can't condemn one without condemning the other (not in good conscience at least)
@Lamar Davis you make a lot of false assumptions. right and wrong have nothing to do with it, nor does deserve. the polish have been conquered repeatedly because they were weaker then their neighbors. given the time and place their fall was inevitable. after conquest as was the standard of the day they faced suppression that was the way of things, and no one of the time was surprised by it. no all of the tribes had intertribal wars. in the more complex cases it was tribal unions against other tribal unions but they all warred with one another and most were very proud of slaughtering their enemies. you say many nations value peace...so? peace is desired at times among all nations. also desired is land power and recourses. with more advanced nations other less obvious reasons for conflict occur but end of the day peace is just the waiting period between wars and I dare you to name one nation beyond a village of amazon tribals who has no recorded wars. I asked you for specifics not general talking points. these tribes you talk of dieing ok and how was it done? was there camps, was it rampant disease they had no immunity to, was it decades of war and their pop cratered as they died to fast to replace. in north America no one was going around targeting native cultures, no great bon fires of artifacts no deliberate killings of story tellers. the closest you had was the residential schools and yeah those were bad but nothing stopped the parents and elders teaching the young people when they returned nor was anything stopping said young at any time post seeking such answers from their tribal elders. the only part you can lay at the Europeans is we took over, the schools separated the young for an extended time. baring the abuses that again were bad nothing there stopped those effected seeking their tribal identity. if you want to see real deliberate cultural genocide look up how the Spanish did things . there is only small fragments of indigenous culture left all through south America. its disinterest killing indigenous language and culture now and that is self inflicted. i am very aware of the damage of the World wars that's why I asked your criteria. as body count wise as I noted yeah big time damage. but both wars were fairly localized in other ways. where as ghengis when offended did not hesitate to erase entire peoples the Vikings were colonizers the only difference is time and tech. their influence is found all over Europe and beyond. not going to go too deep as they are a discussion of their own. the Koreans tried. their navy at the time was one of the best their land forces... not so much. for the Koreans to go to the Polynesians they needed pass china and/or japan both of whom had navies of their own and spent half their time invading Korea thus the reason for the strong Korean navy. that said the Koreans were just as invasion happy just never could make it stick the Inca peaceful? guessing you never read anything on them. yes they had their client states (most of whom were suppressed by prior wars), the Inca also had regular wars with any not aligned natives in reach f their highly mobile well armed and supplied army.. lets not also forget the lovely Inca practice of beheading or removing the hearts of war captives to appease their gods. yes so very peaceful. why didn't the Inca colonize the region... they did. those client states became so because the Inca invaded and forced submission. sure after the fact they were not bad overlords as far as it goers but does not change the fact those who were free and sovereign were not after the fact the Spanish only succeeded in overthrowing the Inca because their neighbors and client states hated them. Cortez had 300 or so men. the Inca army could field 10's of thousands. without native help he could never have toppled the Inca with the forces he had. yes today the remnants of the native population face challenges that stem from the Spanish rule. compared to the Spanish the US trail of tears was a picnic. the northern tribes were lucky they got the French and English as both were far more concerned with the cash value returns from natives than with the social aspect. for the Spanish of the day conversion to Catholicism was a priority for the British (who already had a form of freedom of religion) and the French (who had other concerns) native culture and practices were at best an afterthought. so the natives had civil rights issues till the 60's? i'm sorry but maybe my math is wrong but pretty sure that puts it around 3 generations ago (a generation being approx 20 yrs) the right to vote although important hardly cripples you. now lets say they were denied the right to work, or own land yeah those would be crippling oppressions while not having a vote hurts it isn't crippling. didn't ignore the boarding schools but as noted above once out nothing stopped those same students seeking to relearn their culture you say barriers to voting.. like what? is there guards to stop them casting a vote? no polling stations in their towns? what specifically is preventing the native vote? are they prevented from assembling? (i know for a fact they are not as they have had several protests in my life time). if you can show an actual injustice from lets say the last 40 yrs that is a law or enforcement causing or preventing then hey I'm on your side but you need to show an actual act targeting natives or other group. not liking a pipeline route isn't an oppression (one of the protests I know of and for the record agree with to a point). worst in history? yeah you don't read much history. prior to the European rules of war do you know what the standard act was when taking over new lands? spoiler it is mentioned in the bible a couple times. the migrating people would kill or outright enslave any of the original inhabitants they could catch. you would see cities leveled entire tribes erased in a night. the Europeans didn't to do this even the Spanish did not do it (arguably they were not far off) by the time of the colonization (a period that spanned from 1562 to the 1900's) the players and objectives changed but beyond a few outliers (the Beothuk in newfoundland being one ) the tribes were mostly not wiped out pushed off what had been their lands yes but exterminated no. what happened to the natives was no different than what the comache in the vid did to the apache , or the apache did to them prior. only difference was scale and ability to make it stick spread of disease is not a crime in a time prior to germ theory nice try tho. yes the comanche take over of apache lands in the above video defiantly didn't involve forced relocation, desecration of sacred sites, nor murder, rape, forced labour or slavery nope they was saints I tells you. it is no different in any way that counts. just so happens it looks real bad from the losers side. the natives lost and are living with the regrettable consequences of it. on the plus side they were not actually targeted for extermination as had been common a few thousand years prior. no I acknowledge Europe's history the good and the bad. just not silly enough to think they were unique. Europe has been the bastion of higher thinking in the last 600 years or so, for a time it was the middle east before that India and china. and every last one of them has done similar acts to those unable to stop them. forced relocation hell the video above notes an extended war of extermination to drive the apache from the plains and notes very clearly some of the tamer atrocities. I don't see you condemning those. nor am I asking you too. it was what happened it was before both our times by a long shot. the comanche tried to exterminate the apache and as I understand it the apache eventually managed to turn it around and near exterminated the comache. how is their deliberate geocide of each other any different from similar wrongs done by European powers in the past? what makes their mass murder better? no one denies what king Leopold did in the Congo was a crime. niether is the US trail of tears romanticized as a great victory.
@Lamar Davis never said favored going to war I said did go to war. they are two different things in several instance the video for one it is noted and known that yes tribes occasionally did in fact try to wipe each other out. you keep acting like Europe had some planned over arching goal to wipe out the indigenous population... they didn't. you and people like you keep trying to pain a process that took hundreds of years as if it was a decade. it was not the first north American colony was in the late 1400's, the comanche wars were in the 1850's and those were only the mid point of the European expansions. the final state was finalized in the late 1800's to early 1900's (can't be bothered to get the exact date) the colonization of the Americas were a series of fall backs by the native populations because they lacked the numbers and power to hold the borders. as they were outnumbered in a region they fell back some fought causing the US Indian wars, others were just attacked as was done with Andrew Jacksons illegal invasion of Florida (this was a crime even in his day), mostly tho they just got out numbered by settlers pushing beyond prior borders in violation of treaties in the US case they had no intention of keeping (also a crime by the standards of the day) of course by then the over hunting had caused near irreparable ecological damage etc. this was not a great well thought out plan it was simply the results of circumstances. the natives lacked the unity and by the time of the 1800's lacked the numbers to stop it history is full of similar stories. the Turks are originally from the northern steps but now adays they magically are in Anatolia, the Huns drove the goths Visigoths and Slavs before them into Europe forced migrations are not new. ok so my half remembered numbers of Cortez army was inaccurate..... and? he was out numbered thousands to one without local help he had no chance of taking the Inca on. fortunately for him he had no issues finding people work with him. If the Inca were as loved as you suggest he would not have found enough support but he did. now clearly I am not using too many speciffics because they don't matter to the over all point. the inca, Maya and aztecs were not strangers to war. your strange defense of human sacrifice as "not" cruel is just odd. it is the literal deliberate murder that was done multiple times a year every year in each city even if it was just one per it is still barbaric. now I am willing accept that for them it was the norm. unfortunately for them it was not the norm most anywhere else. I count all deliberate murder of large numbers of people equally. I did not go into the Russian death marches, the kulaks , the Khmer rouge, or any of the others to specifically condemn them because we were not discussing them. but if it helps you sleep yes all genocides are bad however what happened with the natives is mostly not a genocide (still bad but not a genocide) the reason is simple it was not a targeted attempt to kill them (if it had been they would not still exist) the natives fell to something in some ways worse irrelevance. once they were broken (a consequence of many factors) they were pushed aside. the tribes signed the treaties (the first ones being incredibly predatory). now for the record at least in Canada the residential schools were not originally intended to do anything but provide education so the natives could function outside the reservations. obviously that is not what happened and no one in my life has ever tried to say the abuses that happened were a good thing. they should not have been allowed to happen. that you could accurately say was deliberate acts to remove native culture as letters and such exist saying as much (not just from victims) but even so as I noted before nothing was stopping those young people from seeking out their culture and stories if they chose to. are all people capable of committing the same levels of violence and atrocities? yes unequivocally yes. not only are they capable every last blood line surviving today has a some point done it. the Iroquois were not shy about killing their enemies including slaughtering entire villages, the Cree, comanche, apache, the Maori etc all over the world you see the same trend with the right situation you get the same atrocities over and over. it isn't a society thing nor an ethnic thing it is standard in humans all humans. The comache tried to exterminate the Apache in the vid because they hated them but they were not shy about attacking others either. the plains had plenty of land they could have made peace and lived with more unity but nope for many reasons most known only to themselves they chose to murder each other until they were eventually both pushed off. things not new to the natives: forced migration under pain of death, slavery, forced labour (see slavery), destruction of cultural sites, famine (hunter gatherers are always a meal away from starving), forced assimilation (see slavery) not unprecedented it was millions over near 500 years this drops the yearly deaths to tens of thousands spared over a vast area. it isn't as impressive when put in proper context yes natives versus European wars did occur but of those 500 or so years most of the time it was low key raids and local massacres (committed by both sides), or the tribe was hired as mercenaries to fight for the colonial forces against other colonial forces and their native axillaries (most common on the east coastal and Appalachian regions) not gonna lie the US ecological standards suck donkey dong. yes the natives lost their round of the civilization game. news flash they are not the first nor the last. right now they have a choice, and it is an individual choice accept you lost pick up the pieces and move on or winge over the fact you lost. right now this day outside of available funds there is nothing stopping a native person living in any fashion they choose. get an education, don't get an education, work don't work it all the same choices everyone else has. if they desire to know of their tribal culture it is on them to seek those answers (best they do it soon as increasingly fewer practice the culture and languages). now the stuff about infringing on tribal lands (the stuff that by laws is their not the ancient lands lost hundreds of years ago) yeah that's dirty pool and the tribes absolutely should fight it in court etc. for the record the comanche and apache both actively attacked anyone in range. your making a classic mistake. in history right and wrong are meaningless. the justification was because we could that's it . the land was there and the tribes could not adequately defend it. so they lost it. it is the same story replayed across millennia. The only thing that change was the reach. when the Jews invade Canaan they butcherer everyone save the virgin girls...I don't think I need go into why. the comache attacked and massacred tribes and settlements again taking young girls and boys. it is common among modern people to try applying modern sensibilities to ages past and it does not work. the entire frame of thought used has completely different foundations. no Viking thought it wrong to enslave an Irishman to work the oars. any more than the Irishman wouldn't do the exact same if given the chance. the natives warred and fought each other forcing migrations into lesser lands if the losing tribe did not flee they died. the only difference is how recent and scale and even scale is inaccurate, because as you rightly point out not all tribes are the same. it isn't shared trauma it is dozens of similar but different trauma only tied together by they all were on the losing end
My great grandmother bless her soul was Spanish and Apache. I've learned so much from this because she was ashamed of it and would rarely speak about it. She was born in the early 1900's
@richardmullins1883 yes absolutely yes, she passed away thinking I still went to mass lol but yeah now I have a feeling that had something to do with it
@@jerlaine1638 the catholics were good at making people ashamed of their original non catholic background. They recently found many remains of Cree children here in Saskatchewan on land where there was a catholic school...so they've got no place to make people ashamed of the past. I recommend the book Empire of the summer moon which covers the Comanche in more detail and of course covers a lot about their sworn enemies the Apache.
@nlcatter I'm a Candelario however that's my great-grandfather's name and he's Mexican. His wife my Great Grandmother and her mother who were from the rez and all my mother can recall was calling her Grandma Sophia and she's the 1 who is Apache according to my grandfather
I can imagine Apache councils sitting around discussing what to do about the Comanche. I bet everyone laughed when some young brave said “let’s get the Spanish to fight the Comanche.” Then, they all cheered later when the chief made the same proposal.
The ironic thing is, the horse evolved in North America and migrated out across the Bearing Straight during the last ice age. In North America the horse went extinct. Only to be returned by boat centuries later.
Interesting video. I was educated in England in the 1970s and they left out massive parts of our own history (but did touch on the American Civil War). Our understanding of what happened in other countries was what we saw in Hollywood movies. Thanks for posting this, I enjoyed it.
Aussie here. That was a fascinating presentation. Factual, well presented and engaging. I do like a factual "warts and all" history. I notice comments about why this history isn't taught and I dare say it's for the same reason we don't teach much about Australian Aboriginal history, it's not politically convenient. It's hard to paint the white guys as land stealing invaders if the original inhabitants were doing the same thing to each other.
Native American tribes' histories were taught during my 7th grade Texas history class although the historical narratives were brief as were discussions covering the Texas colonization periods (Spanish, French, and Mexican). However, the Comanche nation and their land, Comancheria, dominated the subject of Texas' Indian tribes. I imagine most Texans from my generation were/are quite familiar with the Comanche war chief Quanah Parker.
Teaching history did not begin at the stealing invaders part though. The omissions on what the pre colonial or non colonial people were doing exist because it goes against the cultural narrative kinda prevalent in all colonizing groups of the history of this land kinda begins with us narrative. This is not limited to the industrial era colonialism though but all the one that existed prior and likely will exist in the future. It’s unlikely that if a humanoid species makes it out of this Earth there will be great efforts to preserve earth history among them and most stuff will focus in however their new founding fathers and early conflicts are.
@@locknload4691 I am from Europe: we have had our differences between our tribes as well. Celts, Germans, Saxons, Gauls, Tartars, Vikings: you name it. Now all tribal people accuse US of your tribal wars... BECAUSE WE ENDED IT humanity....
Excellent job. Well researched. And the rare low key commentary the way a documentary should be narrated. I look forward to more of your work, and highly recommend this video. Oh, and loved the use of paintings for graphics.
Absolutely. I’m trying to tell an interesting and engaging story but at the same time it is just horrifying and tragic because it’s true. Thanks for watching.
An outstanding presentation of the complexities of native American history. Well done! Of the three histories you cite, I've read only Gwynne, which in my estimation is indispensable. I've ordered the books by Fehrenbach and Britten.
Being small helped the Comanche a ton as well. Mustangs aren't huge, living off the land as nomads makes caloric requirements difficult to meet, their gear was minimal as well. So efficient.
However but People always act as if only the Europeans were the bad guys in America. But the Native Americans were no better either. Because they have done all the bad things that the Europeans have done. Including oppression, enslavement and genocides.
@@wutm8 In fact, the Comanches forged an alliance with the Spanish against the Apaches. Therefore, the Spaniards delivered the Comanches weapons and ammunition. The content of the contract, which provided for joint military action against the Apaches, also included that the Comanches received a bonus for each Apache killed, for a warrior killed (from the age of 14) around 100 pesos, for a woman 50 pesos and for a child 25 Pesos. Then a peso was about a dollar, but after the American-Mexican War premiums on Apache scalps were increased significantly to offset inflation.
How were they small? Average height was 5,6, that was a bit taller than the average European at that time and around the same height as the European American.
Some Apache blood mixed with Navajo, sometimes, black and Mexican too, as they were captured as slaves, and assimilated into Dine…some also our Northern Athabaskan blood, Dene, of Canada and Alaska, tall and lean.
Good joke. Ironically, that movie starts out with the Pocahontas’ tribe the which tribe was the Powhatan at war with at the beginning of Pocahontas Powhatan returning victoriously from war with the Massowamecks, a rival nation to the north. I’ve known about the intertribal warfare between the Native nations for decades.Maybe because its history is well known in my state with the descendants of those rival tribes still living there. It’s just the warfare between Europeans and Natives eclipses intertribal warfare in American history. Tecumseh was the only Native leader that was semi successful in uniting many of the native tribes despite all the bad blood between them. Other than that, they were mostly at war with each other as most ethnic groups were. There was no sense of pan-native, pan-African, Pan-Asian, or even pan European solidarity at that time.
This was the first video I’ve seen from your channel, but must say, I’m impressed. Read the book by S.C. Gwynne you mentioned (LOVED it!) and have always had a fascination with Native history. Getting harder to find material where I can still learn new info, but this looks like a good place…got yourself a new sub. Keep it up!
Thanks for reference to Empire of the Summer Moon. Great read on this history in southwest. Your maps were great help in understanding the scope of this fight.
Really enjoyed this documentary, and particularly your style of narration. Smooth and laid back, it sounds like you are talking to us directly, not just reading a script.
Outstanding! By far the most accurate & entertaining account of native American history I've found on youtube. Compelling for all the right reasons. Narrator uses descriptive vocabulary to paint evocative images, while avoiding cluttered dialogue with overused adjectives. Solid.
I am a New Zealand Maori My tribe Nga Puhi use to raid and pillage up and down the country, similar to the Comanche. But we didn't have horses. Being an island nation, we used war canoes, which were sleeker and faster than normal canoes.
I think that is a valid comparison. The Mongols were also masters of the horse, and, of course, were equally terrorizing and unbelievably cruel. Neither did they cultivate food. They stole everything they needed through raiding and pillaging. But their primary weapon was the bow rather than the lance. The Mongols met their match in Hungary when the Hungarians changed their battle tactics by a scorched earth policy and the building of many castles to house and protect the peasants and their food supplies. The land was stripped of everything which could support life, the provisions having been placed safely within castle walls. The Mongols had neither the time nor the energy to invest castle after caste. They were left in a virtual desert, and a whole army starved to death before they could withdraw and reach their own empire to the east. The Comanches ultimately faced a similar end as the bison were killed off and the Americans attacked them with repeating weapons like the revolver and hunted them down to the point of total exhaustion.
As a Quahadi Comanche myself, I can say the backstory to our family and it's stories of our ancestors basically line up with that. Empire of the Summer Moon is a good book if you want more specifics
This is learning. I'm engaged, getting facts deeper than I already knew but not overwhelmed with frivolous detail. Already I see history has a way of repeating itself in ways I never thought of. In this I mention the Vikings. Various tribes from the Danes to the Nords feels a bit like the Native American tribes in their movements and power levels over time.
The important thing here, the Comanche didn't call themselves Comanche AND not all the warriors in the Comanche Army are related by Tribe. It's a confederation of Tribes. If you are sitting in a canyon listening to your Comanche wife bitch about running out of flour, AND you know where there is some flour.... You asdk your buddies if they want to go down to Walmart, right? Insert (some othe tribe's camp that has flour in the story) AND that is the purpose for raids. The Indian tribes didn't have the "money system' concept. The only way to get massive amounts of "stuff for free" was to take it by force. It's a game. Not political in nature. The thought behind it is, "Apache did it to us", we do it back. Not about right or wrong. You keep what you kill, Law of the Plains
There is a line in Thucydides’s Peloponnesian War I thought about while researching this quite a bit. There is a section, many years into the conflict where the Athenians travel to the island of Melos. They demand that the Melians pay them tribute or that they would be slaughtered. The Melians tried to reason with the Athenians and swore that the Spartans would avenge them. The Athenians are to have said “The strong do as they will and the weak suffer what they must.” Before slaughtering the men and taking the women and children as slaves. I tried to get that sentiment across in the video. Our pacified world of institutions that arbitrate for us is not the world of the past.
@@datesanddeadguys excellent !!!! So, the Apache were "playing the game" there, a politcal move, and lost. The Emeny of my Enemy is my friend. Wonder which San Antonian recognized after the Apache refused to move to the settlement, it was a trap? That's a smart realization really for a bunch of guys sitting in a large house by a river and not any real enemys around to learn such devious ways. Even more clever for the Apaches to think it up.Sounds Roman in nature.
Outstanding work, sir. You have well-researched content, calm delivery, yet liven it up with the occasional pop-up comments that add a bit of humor. Mixed together it's _very_ informative and entertaining. Thank you. Liked and subscribed. [edit] My compliments for the mountain of prep work you had to do for the content, visuals to overlay the spoken word, and all the work in post. Bravo. (Cool channel name, too.)
I am descended from that history. As i grew from a child to young man, my grandfather’s admonition when things got hard was to remember that i was Apache. That toughened my resolve. It was my source of spiritual center. As a young man i studied the history of the Apache and the history of the region. I loved my home of Northern Arizona and Western New Mexico. Life has carried me many places, and i have lived among many cultures, and yet to hear someone share the history of my home and people, my heart swells. Your presentation is well told, and aside from some pronunciation errors, accurate history.
All people be it White, Red, Black, or Yellow need to have a stong connection to their ancestors. This modern world really tries to steal that from our men.
I just passed through the White Mountain Apache reservation on a road trip through Arizona. Stunningly beautiful country up there. Unspoiled pine forests with open meadows, creeks and lakes.
My son-in-law is Comanche. He was raised with Apache's from Geronimo's band. They still share a reservation with the Kiowa's, Apache and Comanche outside of ft. Sill OK. He is extremely proud of being Comanche. His dad a famous artist and flute player.
From what I have heard they basically tortured/mutilated and executed anyone they found though. No real mercy shown. Therefore imo nothing to be proud about. Besides the horsemanship.
@@darkfoxjjyea they were legitimately universally reviled by ALL other Native tribes and ALL Europeans for being needlessly cruel savages. But since they are direct descendants of the Aztecs who fled north after their cannibal death cult was overthrown in Mexico, and who promptly ate the entirety of the Hopi and Anasazi and Puebla tribes of southwest US when they arrived at the beginning of the 17th century, this makes sense.
Randomly got this in my youtube feed. I was sceptial at the first minutes but continued and 10 mins in I was hooked. Great stuff and you tell it very well, it never ceased to be interesting. Got a sub from me.
This is my first time viewing this channel. I found myself transfixed to your presentation of Apache/Comanche/Spanish warfare. You did a great job and this has garnered you an instant subscribe. Thank you.
As a boy in Europe, who grew up on Karl May's and James Fenimore Cooper's books allways was interesting in the history of the native Americans but I've never heard about this war. I knew there were some wars between the tribes but I didn't imagine they were so brutal and bloody.
Thank you for shedding light on this subject. Despite their ultimate failure, the fact that the Apache were so good at the political manipulation of their enemies speaks to the sophistication of their society. This is important for people to understand. Just because they were not as technologically advanced as Europeans does not mean they were uncivilized. These were peoples with long traditions and an amassed body of knowledge that was the equal of other peoples around the planet. I find it interesting that what made the Comanche suddenly so fearsome is basically the same thing that made the steppe horsemen of Asia so dangerous. Great stuff!
@Gib59er isn't that amazing how every race of people on every different continent all shared a willingness to kill each other brutally for whatever reason, kinda sad
I started this just a year ago. Give it time. I have some confidence I can make it something more respectable. I do really appreciate the praise. Thank you.
Why in the Hell did I just find your channel or it pop up on my feed, THIS IS AWESOME AND TRULY AMAZING FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME THAT SIMPLY ADORES THE HISTORY OF NATIVE CULTURE, I LOVED EVERY DAMN SECOND OF THIS & I'M DEFINITELY RECOMMENDING YOU TO ALL MY FRIENDS & FAMILY, TRULY AWESOME BIG GUY!!!!! ✌🏾
If i didn't know any better ( and i do) I'd be foaming at the bit about this very accurate and very honest CRT lesson😆 we appreciate real American history out here on the reservation! Thanks for your content, keep it up.
As a boy I had a real fascination with American natives but no idea anything as wild as this video lays out was happening, thanks for posting. Steve, Perth, Western Australia ☺
I remember visiting Indian Painting at Philmont Scout Camp in New Mexico. One of the old rock paintings showed farms with corn on one side of the river and men with bows on the other. Our camp guide asked us to interpret the painting. I had read the book empire of the summer moon and knew the maps of the extant of Comanche territory which bordered on Philmont. So i toldour group the painting showed Apache farms on one side of the river and Comanche raiders on the other.
Great presentation. I’ve always argued that the Western hemisphere had been in a continual battle for supremacy for centuries. It’s easy to vilify those who eventually won, not acknowledging that it was only part of a very violent process. There were hardly any “peaceful” participants, and “ownership” of the land changed with the wind. It was inevitable that eventually a more technologically advanced culture would settle the issue once and for all. History is literally packed with identical stories through the ages.
@@pasofino9583 Yeah, living out in the wild, eating people, going to war over someone having sexual relations with a member of another tribe, really technological stuff.
@@TheSultan1470 I’m referring to the more technologically advanced European powers that eventually came in and took over. It was the natural and inevitable course of events, but people still piss, moan, and judge without any historical context
I’ve found Native American history fascinating. When I was young history was my favorite subject. I am not claiming to be Native American, but my great grandmother told me that I had a relative (6 generations from me we believe) walk the trail of tears. Which was barley covered in my school lessons. I find this a shame, we need to know the history or we WILL be doomed to repeat it. In a lot of ways you can say the Spanish and English were as vengeful as the Comanche by not telling their history or traditions. Screen shot alot of the books you showed and I will be reading these. Thanks for the great video and teaching us what our education system did not.
History will repeat itself even if we know history just because shit happens like rivers drying up, resources running out, etc. and it always leads to conflict. If we do away with conflicts we'll just be reduced to wandering around starving and dying of disease like a bunch of rabbits instead of getting a better and more glorious death in combat.
You might consider that the Spanish and American conquest of these tribes was not the most significant event that happened to either of those cultures. The history of the Americans and the Spanish are filled with much more historically important events such as the Mexican War of Independence and the American Revolution and Civil War of which we know almost every detail. The fact that the vanquished participants of those wars also knew how to read and write made the knowledge of what happened more available. The Comanches and the Apaches couldn't read or write much and almost everything was passed down in stories. Much of the history had to be pieced together by interested authors. Also at that time, both the Americans and the Spanish had faced scores, maybe hundreds, of tribes, many of which had equally rich histories. Sometimes hundreds of years had to be part of the history and we still don't have it all right. There is nothing vengeful about it, it just took time and there was probably a lot that wasn't true they had to sort through. In that time, or not long after, even the true events at the OK Coral could not be accurately determined even perhaps today. What I find especially interesting is that if you go back to 1869, within a hundred years the US would put a man on the moon.
After you read these books, you'll understand the inevitability of clashing cultures. You'll know it could not have ended any other way. You will realize just how complicated the real story is and you will recognize the biasedness of each culture's story. Read these books, please. Then look carefully and honestly for a hero. Good luck with that. Beautifully done video. Keep em coming.
Texas history is required for all 7th grade students in Texas. When I took it, all I remember was ... blah blah cortez, blah blah misdions, blah blah, the evil mexicans, blah blah brave settlers from American territories, blah blah Stephen F Austin, the Alamo, blah Santa Ana, blah blah evil evil, blah cowboys, Sam houston, Texas independence, the almighty Texas republic... the US, blah blah , oil at spindletop, millionaires... Texas our Texas. They may have covered native tribes? If they did, they might have done it when I was sick that day.
Well most schools don't want to teach how much of a savages the Indians were back in the day. Because the Indians then would lose their victim status. And the we are all living on stolen land would mean nothing.
Native American history needs to be presented more. The 'noble savage' idea of NA's being this monolithic group who were peaceful, friendly and in tune with nature has done so much damage. They were people, human beings, capable of great valour and great evil like the rest of us, and like the rest of us, they fought and traded with each other, sometimes brutally.
Excellent. I have also been looking at the 'people of fire series about the peoples of the southeastern USA.
That's essentially anti-white propaganda
@@karlscher5170 The noble savage trope was invented by a white guy
@@forbiddendomeeverything was invented by a white guy lol 😂
not only that but it makes the natives seem way less cool by portraying them as always on the back foot rather than as the epic warriors they could often be
I was in the Air Force with an Apache who grew up on a reservation in northern New Mexico....people talk about the Irish or us Southerners holding a grudge,,,he never missed a chance to knock the Comanche, the Spanish and the Mexicans...He and I hunted all over Wyoming and Colorado....he knew the Earth...This has been an excellent presentation....a little known bit of American history.
What are you talking about. His biggest grudge is against you, the invading white man coming to steal his land
Did he take his horse in the sky
He took YOUR horse into the sky.
@@resipsaloquitur13 i don't own a horse
@@scottmaclaren4695 anymore
I think this would make an epic series. You could show this story from all three sides, who else would binge-watch it?
I would
Hell yeah! However, who would be the victim and who would be the oppressor?
@@drgordo112 Great question. Wouldn't they all see themselves as the victims at some point in the story?
@@spurtikus1 Let me put it this way: I am trying to be an effective teacher who happens to be a straight white male. Unfortunately, identity trumps competency. I am frequently reminded by school LEADERSHIP that I am by birth an Oppressor. I survived the Catholic Church, but they will not grant me the title of Survivor. It's unfair! It's outrageous!
Not if he's gonna self-censor history
West Texas Comanche here - Fantastic channel and episode. Very informative. I'm familiar with the general topic, as many stories (this one, for sure) are passed down from generation to generation in our family. I think the only part I'd differ on would be on when the Comanche were introduced to the Spanish Mustang. Coronado and subsequent expeditions from 1540s to the 1580s came into contact with Comanche bands in Western Kansas. In the stories passed down, this is the time frame they were introduced. It took many years to master, though. And also - the Comanche took to breeding because they learned how (and why) from the Spaniards. Not saying every band of the tribe, but I can tell you that two bands for sure were very friendly with the Spaniards early on - one of them I descend from.
Elders put their twists on history when it is passed down, but the 'meat' of it us very accurate.
Over the next century and a half, the horsemanship and tactics would expand to all Comanche bands. Understand that the need for more resources only came as they became completely mobile, leaving all agrarian life behind.
Yeah right, anyone can say they are Comanche! Get off your knees.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Native American history is fascinating yet tragic, it’s worth to study and to draw inspiration from. Thank you for still being with us after centuries-long genocide! You’re one of a kind race!
This makes more sense. In the video it seems like the Comanche happened upon the escaped horses and mastered riding and fighting on them within a few years or even months. Maybe the escaped horses did give them a numerical advantage they didn't have before, but it seems probable that they had already mastered warfare on horseback.
Do you have any local sources that could confirm this story above? I really like having a story be true on multiple fronts. Would you be able to document those sources? Historian & Dine' guy here from AZ is asking. TY.
The warcraft of the Comanche in America appears very similar to the Mongols in Asia. The Mongols covered vastly more territory, of course.
it is common in most nomadic people's to be honest,
the situation also shows ricardo's law in action
basically the comanche saw the succes the appache had with horses but also realised that they essentially just used them more as transport to and from than anything else.
all of that makes a lot of sense when you realise how heavily what can be done on horseback has been dependent on technology, the romans had four pronged saddles that held them in place on top (before that horses could sparsely be used in (at least melee) combat outside of charriots)but which still required them to clamp on with their thighs to stay in the saddle,
the stirrup was invented in the central asian steppe, it allowed for much more mobility in the saddle, the single horn saddle was invented in medieval western europe.
the commanche essentially didn't have any of that..... and somehow mannaged to make that their advantage, not being locked in a saddle (and with extreme levels of training to learn to do so) they learned to do things such as riding their horses whilst hanging off their sides, if you saw what seems like a herd of wild horses on the plains, in the distance, whilst it was kind of getting dark.... well it might allready have been to late for you.
though it does have to be pointed out that we see similar feats being performed in shows by steppe peoples in Eurasia all over so I would argue that the mongols may have had similar skills, and as for those stirups, they make it much easier to guide a horse but you don't have to use them if you require more flexibility (and in fact we know that during his early rise, genghis khan also used the tactic of hanging on the side of horses covered in essentially wicker shields on the other side to win a battle, being able to surprise them by going for more close quarters than was usual
Effective use of horse archers and quick raids. Also used by South American natives like the Mapuche of Peru, various Turkic and Iranic people, and even some Europeans like the Cossacks. A well armed cavalry host or even a small collection of well trained skirmishers can make life miserable and short for the enemy.
@@istoppedcaring6209 another thing about the Stirrup is that it allows you to have something to stand on and thus use your back muscle's to Pull 100-150 pound bows which the mongols did // The Comanche did not use that heavy poundage bows, they only used 60-70 pound bows which did not require a stirrup and could be pulled with just arm strength
@@aburoach9268 true, it is also why longbowmen used to stand in a certain way whilst firing on foot, they had to utilise those backmuscles as much as possible
Mongols used the same tactics that was used before them by numerous nomadic Turkic peoples, such as Scythians, Huns, Gokturks, Avars, Pechenegs, Kipchaks (Cumans), Seljuks, etc. Mongols were just the latest ones and were able to conquer the largest territory.
Comanche v. Apache v. Spanish/Mexican v. American is easily one of the most colorful epochs in North America history. As a kid I grew up in Oklahoma, just miles away from Quanah Parker’s home. In High School I learned Oklahoma history and my teacher was a slightly militant Native American woman. She was great and she sparked a love of this I have had ever since. Great vid!
That's like saying a teacher was militant Eastern Hemisphere. Which nation or "tribe" did she support stealing land from and enslaving other tribes? Or do you mean she was just anti-White?
Don't trust white people go to San Carlos or white river and mescalero get the truth this all lies
Native people don't make treaties this all lies from a white man let us here this from a true apache not a white person.
It also kind of puts a damper on the automatic 'native-good-white-man-bad' complex that's been taught and, ah...rather insisted on, from certain quarters. Natives fought natives, brutally, for decades and centuries, before the others ever even arrived.
@@noahhyde8769 for reals. For example, the Sioux regard the Black Hills as their 'sacred ancestorial lands'. Conspicuously missing from the discussion is the Sioux stole the land in a war of extermination against the Cheyenne, Crow, Kiowa and the Arapaho in the 1700s. Somehow only the white man is the transgressor.
I was raised in the San Francisco Bay Area. Everything in the east and south bay is named after Juan Bautista de Anza! He led an expedition there is 1776 to explore the area around the San Francisco bay. I had no idea he was involved in the Apache and Commanche conflicts. It's so cool to see connections in history!
This is a valuable bit of context, thank you.
He defeated comanches´s union of Cuerno Verde ( Green horn, father and son), got peace with comanches in all the crown territories and it remained so until Spain leave in 1821. The main force at that time were the " Dragones de Cuera"( spanish from Spain, New Spain, even some other nations) , regular soldiers commanded by Anza, helped by regular enlisted( and paid) "Auxiliares", mostly of them christian apaches. And this suppoused historician ignores nearly every thing about that time and that place. Don´t trust in his words. He repeats fake WASP tales.
@@carlosgracia9888 _"He repeats fake WASP tales."_
Everything else is completely fabricated _oral traditions._
WASPs (Bearded White Gods) are the only reason that you know anything, so questioning their sole record of events is quite ridiculous.
San Jose's first Mayor was an Apache.
In Fact Anza was a spaniard born near the current border of New Mexico. A curious aspect I read somewhere in Spain is that spaniards went to the North of California because indians had told them that there were people like them over there trading with fur... the spaniards knew they couldnt be britons, so they went over there and found russians. Quickly they decided to stablish a presidio and city in what is now San Francisco and therefore stop the russians dont let them take the north of California once the russians had started going down from Alaska.
I am part Apache (and Cherokee), still living in Texas. Thank you for putting together such a well laid out and detailed summary of the many events. Well done. You have a new sub off this 👍
I’m part Apache and Choctaw, and also live in Texas. Most of this was actually taught in the little, rural, Texas school district I attended. We learned Texas Geography and History together. Once you know the geography of an area, its history tends to make more sense.
Do you speak Apache or Cherokee?
@@wjspade 100% agree
@@kinidiosodlosios6892 My grandmother taught me some as a kid, but her father was REAL big into making sure all the kids learned to speak and write good English so they could have the best chance of succeeding in the "white mans world" (He was born in the 1930's, much different time where that thought process was absolutely justified).
Good question though! Sometimes I wish I could remember more of it or that I had learned even more, but honestly I already speak 2 languages fluently and a third in a working proficiency (in my line of work, I come across folks of many linguistic backgrounds), so considering the last time I ever spoke to someone else in that tongue was when I was a legit little kid, I dont think it matters much to my life.
I just signed up myself. History that I did not know about.
The Apache gambit of convincing the Spanish to unknowingly build on Comanche land is deliciously clever, even though it didn't work. That kind of chess is rarely shown in pop culture history, because it flies so far in the face of either positive (noble savage) or negative stereotypes (regular savage).
They were not noble savages... by today's standards. If we judge Europeans by today's standards let's judge natives by the same standard
MOre like humans being human.
@Lamar Davis This doesn't seem like an apt comparison. It would make more sense to compare the people of their time, wouldn't it?
Or compare the groups at similar levels of technological development?
I'm sure if the Comanche had machine guns during their feuds with the other tribes. They would not have taken issue using them.
And if the Comanche's brutality was present during the world wars, the results would not have been better and Dare I say, they would have been much worse.
It's better to make comparisons that make sense.
During the Comanche's time, the Spanish were just another group to contend with. Just like all other tribes and nations did across the globe.
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist9 Ah, we were wondering when you'd grace us with an appearance. It seems these comment sections aren't quite complete, until one of you lot weighs in. I'm a pragmatic agnostic, but here's one I've always liked, which might be applicable to you: "For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies." 2 Thess. 3:11 (KJV)
Deliciously clever? They disrespected the agreement and caused the unnecessary death of people. I don't know how you find enjoyment with this, but the outcome was expected, they should have known that. They could have gotten peace if they held to the agreements, both the Comanche and Apache might have been alive in greater numbers. It was not only not deliciously clever but the exact opposite, it was malicious stupidity.
Comanche vs Apache would make a great historical action movie. Even a series of movies.
Naw, nobody wants to see that sh**. Too violent and soulless. I don't know if there is a heaven, but they sure deserve to go to hell.
Netflix could do it. With a black Comanche chieftain of course. "My grandmother told me.."
@@Eraphionwe wuz chiefs mang
@@hooktraining3966 Twerks With Wolves.
@@Eraphion No... It'd be a black woman Comanche chieftain... Maybe even a black "woman" Comanche chieftan.
Oh that would be so... brave. *eyebrow wiggle
One aspect to the Comanche I found interesting was their mastery of the horse, of course, and how they developed into the best fighters off the animal. It was how well they trained off the back of their horses and almost importantly was how they saved their warriors from succumbing to their enemy.They achieved this through their ability to swoop in during a battle and literally lift a wounded fellow warrior off the ground running at full speed, and swing the warrior up on the back of their horse. This took tremendous amounts of practice and strengthening exercises performing that feat. They learned to do this from young ages. I believe it gave the entire tribe a trust they wouldn't be left behind and that they would die for one another. Perhaps that is one of the reasons they fought so hard.
They would have been the Mongolians of The Americas if they had horses wayyy before.
@@felipegarcia5114 the horse was originally native to the Americas, there are theories that there were already original Native American horse breeds in North America that inter-bred with the horses that were brought with colonisation by the Spaniards. If you think about it, horses evolved and potentially travelled with nomadic humans for hundreds of thousands of years, certainly long long before the colonisation of the Americas by Europeans in the last few centuries. Therefore it was certainly possible horses could have already been in the Americas as both indigenous wild species and also brought with the nomadic Native American tribes when they first came from Asia. There's no reason to think that Native Americans never saw a horse before. Just the 'Western European eye' always thinks everything revolves around itself, and never thinks about the complexity of reality of the rest of the world / universe / nature / history. outside of itself etc. We probably still have much to discover. There are Comanche narratives today that say that they kept horses before the 'Spanish horses' appeared and then interbred with native blood-lines, before then being dominated by the British DNA blood-lines shortly after.
There are the Bakshir curly haired horses for example that are described as having been documented as being owned by the Sioux but then being almost exterminated due to being 'different' under colonialism.
There are horses held within indigenous communities with dark stripes on their spine still to this day.
History is now being re-written, but maybe it will take time for the full truth to emerge, of how the indigenous Native American horses were originally integral to Native American society and already here, long before the white man turned up. Just as the Native American people were massacred, so were their horses, but at least some Native breeds still remain and are being protected to save them from extinction to this day.
www.yesmagazine.org/environment/2020/04/27/native-horses-indigenous-history
@@liliaaaaaaaa the historical sources in that puff piece is dubious at best
@@felipegarcia5114Agreed.
The Numunu braided their horses main into a loop where they would hook their arm into it and would hang under the horses neck revealing only one leg draped over the back. Plus the Numunu used the smallest dream catchers for target shooting. 9 inches across. Even my aim is pretty good and I don't practice. Dream catchers were used like a dart board, but rolled on the ground and the one nearest to the middle won. Not the stupid made up lie about catching dreams. Spears with barbs were used and bets were also placed. Numunu men could shoot arrows accurately from under the horses neck. Plus Numunu men broke horses in shallow rivers and creeks, so if you got bucked off no pain and it would tire the horse out faster. Plus they used mares in estrus to draw stallions. This is the answer to the other supposed Comanche indian that didn't know that.
Just finished Empire of the Summer Moon. Learned so much about this war between tribes and their history of conflict.
Excellent book.
@@madjayhawk Agreed, amazing book.
Great book.
simple, not overdone, cheap but effective, intriguing without that much over-the-top editing. I love it. New subscriber.
To bad it's an overreaction to fit the "we weren't all that bad, ya'll were doing it too", so you can sleep at night narrative.
@@lorenzovillarreal4693 Those who are secure in their own need not to speak of it.
Honestly, this is the best channel on this platform. This gentleman is a great storyteller, and that's a rare gift in reality.
This is about the best kind of compliment I can get. I trying to take the stuff I learn and tell it in a entertaining story. Thank you.
I never heard these stories. Truly fascinating. Human beings are so...violent. But I can't imagine being a European in such an alien territory and being terrified by the bright moon illuminating the plains.
@@datesanddeadguys I dont trust Google to truthfully reply to many things in history that can falsely influence present agendas. So I wanted to ask, Is it true that American Indians learned scalping from the English? And what facts exist (around that use of fear) in westward expansion? Great job on the channel/ video- best regards.
He has a pleasing tone of voice and enunciation. His speaking pace is also pleasing. He breathes and speaks at the correct speed for a story teller.
Yes and No. There is pretty irrefutable archeological evidence of scalping centuries before the arrival of Europeans to the new world. It has been falsely pushed by different authors that natives learned it from Europeans, most notably Howard Zinn (at least that I am aware of). What is true is that the English and other Europeans absolutely benefited from Native Americans scalping. They would often pay bounties for scalps the I would have to bet made the practice more common. This series for the example has focused on the Apache. It was not a common cultural practice for them but they would capitalize on bounties. Neighbors though, like the Comanche did it commonly regardless of outside influence. In summary, The practice existed and was used prior to European arrival but it was also influenced by Europeans.
Its amazing how different and similar we are. Largely we're a product of our geography. The Comanche's sound very similar to the mongols in the way they waged war.
Yes, they do. I do see it a little differently though, the Comanche used similar tactics as the Mongols but did not wage war with the same tenacity as the Mongols. Interestingly, as I watched the video above I too had thoughts of how similar the swiftness and deadliness of the Comanche attack were to those of the Mongols.
Yess, except the mongols had superior strategy (all mongols were requried to have 5 horses), bows, and battlefield tactics (faking retreats to lure enemies into a trap) thus would have slaughtered the Comanche.
@@musicmadgic6931 mongols conquered more territory in 20 years than Rome did in it's entire existence. Mongols would have crushed the Comanche and Apache simultaneously.
@@TingTingalingy Comanche didn't set out to conquer, they raided and roamed. What makes you believe same numbers group Mongols could beat Comanches (mounted, bow / long af lance) when it took literary half of continent, guns and STDS(because of tea-bagging noobs) to stop them?
@@lymphy12 sorry, your red man heroes were no match for superior forces like Europeans and mongols.
I just subscribed to your channel. My son in Florida sent your link to me. I’m now seventy two and from my earliest recollections have had an intense respect and fascination with Native people. I grew up in Colorado and we would travel through states with wonderful history of Native people. I’m obsessed with the culture and history. You are a wonderful narrator. Thank you for bringing so much information to light. ❤
Very nice presentation. You've done a great job of absorbing numerous sources and weaving them together into a fine, well-paced narrative. I'd never heard - in depth, anyway - of the Apache & Comanche war. Thanks for providing such a great introduction for me!
Super nice. Thank you.
Agreed 💯
@@datesanddeadguys Thank you too.
As an European, I'm completely ignorant about "native" American history.
But then again, humans are humans, and we are not as cute as cats.
(what a cruel, war mongering species we are)
@@worfoz if you would like to learn more about the Comanche in particular and the Indian tribes that they came in contact with in general ,then I can wholeheartedly recommend the book Empire of the Summer Moon by SC Gwynne . It is loaded with historical facts about the Comanche tribe and its surrounding neighbors . It is exhaustively researched and well written.
@@jackburton5483 I tried to study cultural antropology once, so in my view, Gwynne would show me how modern American culture looks at the Comanche culture, revealing the very nature of American main stream culture.
I mean: The '59 movie Ben Hur reveals a lot about American imperialism at that time, but not about Rome...
Wow, 69 years old and I have never heard this level of detail about this history. Snippets about some of it but nothing this encompassing. Well done!
Yup, you are right. With the political tones in this country the native Indians are spoken of as the poor minorities. This is used as leverage for one political party to gain what it is that they want over the other political party for power. I went to a private school in Indiana and American history taught by the Nuns was first class. Politicians are destroying this country faster than history can create it. Sad........elections have consequences.
It's the internet..we didn't have the access to that vast info that we do now. So many ppl can share stories and documents em
If you like detail, read Empire of the Summer Moon by S. C. Gwynne. You will learn about the Comanches, a fascinating book.
Brilliant. I had also heard from a old man that was raised around San Saba that the Commanche were the only Indians who would fight at night. The other tribes would not want to get killed at night because it would mean thier souls would be lost and wander forever. At least that was what was told to him as a boy.
There is something to that because the Apache for the most part did not fight at night...read that in several troopers autobiographies
My ancestors fought at night. Chichimec and Moskitos fought at night. In fact, Moskitos were hired to guard the Panama Canal. No one screwed with them, and they turned prisoners (anarchists) over to local Carib, who guarded in the day.
I hsve died thru the night. Physical death. Spirit and body reunion 12 hrs later. Not awate of exact route either way. Altiugh just ovet tbe horizon on eastern sky plains is ehete i beliece i went. Coming back i wad wasted. So had to be a guide to do it
@@davidtyndall3786 sounds fun
@@marschlosser4540 and where are Moskitos and Chichimec from?...this is a post about Apache ...and most Apaches did not fight at night.
I can’t believe it took this long for UA-cam to recommend your channel. I’m so impressed! Keep up the great work. And thank you for all the great content!!
Thank you! I have a new video coming out this afternoon on Mangas Coloradas. Let me know what you think.
I learned this as a child while living in phoenix for several years with my family. There was an Apache family several houses down and became friends and heard this from the grandfather. I never forgot it and wondered why this was not covered in school books or in class. As a young man l found information slowly hints about the war between the apaches and the Comanches. Also how the after effect that brought the apaches to Arizona.
Well, if we learned the TRUE history of the Native American Indigenous population; a fuck ton of modern narratives of "white man baaaaaad" would be sunk to the bottom of davy jones locker
It would hurt the myth that the native pagan tribalists were all happy peaceful flower eaters.
@@AR15andGOD Facts
You didn't hear about it from any official source because it would destroy the myth of the Noble Savage!
And you won't hear about it now because it would destroy the narrative of the Noble Savage who was so badly treated by the European colonists.
Yeah schools need much more time to cram in all of that white guilt.
The beginning story of the Comanche is very similar to the beginning story of the Aztecs. Both were outcast tribes that found a source of power. The Comanche with the horse and the Aztec with their resoursefulness to where they ended up. And both were brutally vengeful people
Aztecs originally came from the North (what would is the US today), essentially kicked out by other tribes or fleeing, we don't know exactly what happens but they are not welcome anymore and they begin their long exodus that eventually brings them to the valley of mexico where they sell themselves as mercenaries and labor until the nations of the valley of Mexico find them too cumbersome and refuse to give them a place to settle, they eventually see the eagle eating the serpent, the sign announced by their late leader Tenoch. They see the sign in a marsh where local nations finally agree they can settle... fast-forward and they turn the marsh into habitable and agricultural land and eventually turn on nations that had exploited them and go on conquering roughly what is midern day mexico. It's not impossible they might have been the same peoples as the Comanche
I’m Tarascan Yeah we defeated the Aztecs and sent them away from our land too 😂
But those fools had the Devil inside them
Go to hell with your stupid Religion you pos
The horse was a big factor
@@luiscarlosgarcia9354 Who is we?
Once they entered the mountains, the Apache became one of the greatest guerilla fighters ever known.
100%
boring
North Vietnamese.
How do you think they would have compared to the Afghans? They held their mountains too against a far more advanced empire.
@@gaslampnation735 if the US forces had used the Indian wars rules of engagement the war in Afghanistan would have been over by 2003 and 85% of the population would have been gone. Don't compare apples and oranges. The war in Afghanistan was fought with 2 arms and a leg tied behind our backs because our politicians and military industrial complex wanted to spin it out for decades. Trust me it only ended because they started planning this Ukraine thing....
My father described hearing an actual Comanche war cry. He was a child, and the Comanche man was old, but he said it was blood-curdling. The idea of being a Disney-Circle-Of-Life peaceful people is something they would have found disgraceful.
One thing I didn't hear you mention is that in addition to stealing supplies and killing rival men, they would take women and children and make them part of the tribe. There is a concept of "replacement population", and it was a lot easier to maintain that way.
This was very, very well done. I've sub'd.
As a point of interest from Fehrenbach's book, the Comanche got along very well with the Americans (trading horses) and the army as long as the latter didn't ask about hostages. It was the Spanish and Texans that they hated.
I don’t think anyone hated the Spanish more than Geronimo, that dude had a personal vendetta to kill every single one of them that he came across. Comanches would kill anyone that crossed their boundaries no matter who they were. I never understood why the mission line from Spanish Mexico abruptly turned due West from San Antonio and followed the border all the way to California. One of the most well equipped and well trained armies in the world didn’t want nothing to do with the Comancheria lol.
@@jackburton5483 comes done to cost. for Spain to wipe out the comanche would require massive outlays of capital and man power from across the Spanish empire, and it was not worth it. for the record the comache were successful because they attacked small isolated settlements. they preyed on the weak but avoided major battles unless they had clear advantage. the Spanish they fought were primarily the "local" garrisons that were mostly poorly led and often poorly trained (an issue with the Spanish colonies that persisted till the Mexican revolution, and after).
if it came to a dedicated effort to exterminate the Spanish could call on vastly more manpower than the comanche had people but to do so would pull forces from Spain itself and the other colonies many of which had their own issues to deal with. end of the day the kill the comanche was not worth the effort so a simple redirection of the border was done
Agree 👍 Exactly Y I just Subscribe.
I love history an thought I knew about the West's Indians.
However I was Rong.
The Indians had Huge Wars going on.
In land disputes. Over Huge Tracts of land. Just the Weapons Tech at first primitive wood & Rocks. Horses even came Europe. IRON
@@jackburton5483 It was Mexicans that Geronimo hated, not Spaniards. They had been gone for decades by the time Geronimo was born. Mexican troops killed Gernomino's family at Janos during a trading trip.
@@jackburton5483 I'm sure geography had nothing to do with it..
This is REAL history, not the phony garbage which passes for history in our schools. Bravo, friend!
Amen.
Yes, the notion that Native American Tribes lived in Harmony firmly quashed.
@@emlynjay8633 Yeah, it is almost as if humans, regardless of origin, make war on each other. Who'd of thunk it?
@@emlynjay8633 yes but you u can’t tell White liberal brain dead do gooders that or POC…
Not really no. Russell means was way more accurate on indigenous peoples history of turtle island. This is white washed garbage and you all are brainwashed
A book that goes into a deep dive for this period is Pekka Hamalainen's "The Comanche Empire". One interesting thing I learned from that book that this lecture kind of touches on is that the Spanish engagement with Comanche were night and day between New Mexico (peaceful relations) and Texas (terrible relations full of conflict), especially as it got into the 19th Century (after the period of this video). One thing that this lecture suggests is that the role of the Apache played into that in this early stage.
This is actually horrific. The idea of a group of people (or even anything for that matter!) who can at any moment at night show up, murder you and everybody close to you, and then disappear right away, impossible to find with nothing to do about it is definitely something that scratches our primal instincts of why we feel scared as an emotion in the first place. Nothing can compare to the horror of what humanity can do to itself.
Horrific methods are what is required to defend yourself as a native American while under oppression or invasion.
It's still interesting history
Welcome to the european seas of old with the Vikings, and to the Mediterranean Sea with that PLUS arab, berber and turkish raids. Welcome to east europe raided by tatars. And as Italian, I guarantee Venetians and Genoese weren't that better behaved.
@raymondjmcclain Good thing the Indians were conquered
What is crazy to think about is we are all descendants that survived through the horrors and uncertainties of Human existence..
This was DAMN good! I loved this! The amount of research done for this shows, and made this flatout amazing! I wish I could give you 3 thumbs up!
Nicely done! As a resident of the former Comancheria (Central Texas), I appreciate your work to resurrect and preserve this history.
Yeah you appreciate it because it fits the "we weren't so bad because y'all were doing it too" so I can fall asleep at night narrative.
Modern Texans makes much more sense, now! They are living on the old Comanche Indian lands. 😨 Comanche energy is everywhere.
Your awesome Cherokee Here. Natives # 1 all our tribes
I grew up on a farm in the Caprock Canyon, which is the southern section of the Palo Duro Canyon where the Comanche made their last stand. My family has collected lots of arrow heads, and usually donated to the Texas Tech University Department of History. For anyone interested in Native American history the book "1491" by Charles Mann is an excellent introduction to Aztec, Mayan, and Inca cultures as best we can tell.
How can someone living at the edge of Africa get hold of a Comanche relic (arrow head)? Ive never been near America but my heart has always been with the Native Americans. I would kill for something from them
is there any bias in its re-telling?
Lubbock native, I may have to dig into this, cuz it's pretty interesting stuff to learn
Thanks
Now, why would anybody want to read that? The Indian tribes lost to the more unified and intelligent caucasian race, and thank goodness they did! Want to live in a tipi? Didn't think so.
im 13 from west texas and me and my father/grandpa are half Comanche and for the past three days or so i have been learning more about my culture this is really great content explaining comache and apache's history
This is very interesting to me,I'm part Algonquin, respect to you❤
_me and my father/grandpa are half Comanche_
Probably not (mathematically speaking).
Be proud. My mate is a direct descendant of Quanah Parker.
@@John.Flower.Productions Well, it is possible... If grandma and mom were both half Comanche, too...
I live in San Antonio and while I was aware of the “missions” I didn’t know how or why it was built. This is a great doc!!
210!!!!!
What part?
@@damianketcham oh castle hills! Sup!!
sooo the word "mission" stands for a castle too? My dictionary doesn't know this meaning.
@@Zeratsu not necessarily. “Misión” is the Spanish word for a Catholic settlement/church. Most times fortified to defend against attacks tho.
@Skate_Health fun part about history is seeing how the Spanish approach failed while the US succeeded to conquer the west the spanish had to fortify missions due to their centralized approach of governing citizens weren't allowed to own guns so they had to rely on the military to protect them from raids preventing growth while the US allowing gun ownership allowed for settlers to fight back against the natives when they would raid settlements making confrontation with settlements more costly
Fascinating, as a Swedish person i never really got to learn that much about North American native history. Thanks for a bit of education in the subject, liked your style and also the way you told it felt unbiased!
A diversion from the well known fact that the Euro colonizers exterminated Native Americans?
I just finished reading The Searchers, which is, apparently, based on a true story, and it bears out much of what you say about the Comanches. It took over 20 years for some Texans to track down a particular band of Comanches and a girl they had kidnapped because of how much they moved around. It even describes almost identically the Comanche skill as mounted combatants.
It's based on the story of Cynthia Ann Parker. You should read about the fort Parker massacre.
You should watch the John Wayne movie The Searchers based on the same story. One of the finest piece of cinematography and storytelling out there.
I knew people didn't that movie for using white actors to play the Comanche, but I was unsure how they felt about depicted them as violent raiders. Know I now it had some historical basis.
@@lucinae8512 I see no problem with that
@@lucinae8512 I’ve seen the movie numerous times, but those playing the comanches looked native enough to me !
I knew that the Comanches and Apaches might have come to blows at times but I had no idea that there was a concerted effort to exterminate the Apache on the part of the Comanche. A very interesting video.
That's the result of liberal teaching in the public education system and other facets of Liberal ideologies. The idea is to create a, us versus them world and culture. White people are the enemy. They are the oppressors and always have been and always will be. Every other race, is just the victim and has never done anything wrong. Any violence ever attributed to minorities or in this case Native American Indians is always written out as a defensive measure, never offensive. Some of the earlier tales of Christopher Columbus, tell of him helping out some indian tribes against another indian tribes, because they would war with eachother and then eat eachother because they were cannibals. I didn't learn about that in school it was only when I was out of school and did the research myself. That sort of history, goes against the narrative, so it is suppressed.
The camanche regularly engaged in trying to exterminate or enslave their enemies
@@JM-bl3ih They were the most feared tribe on the plains. And it wasn't due to anything connected to white people.
@@madjayhawk Well thr comanche were cannibals who tortured people brutally.
The apache practiced less cannibalism, but they still tortured people just as brutally
As someone with little knowledge of the history of north and south America, the book Empire of the Summer Moon blew me away. All about the Comanche and their last chief, who was half white due to them kidnapping his mother when she was a child. It's a wild ride and epic history.
Does this cover the entire history of the red man or just the Comanches?
@@Morgue12free Its focused on the Comanche, their rise and fall.
My great great grandfather Quanah Parker.
I dont know much of my
Family's history, but i hope to learn more. I do know that we have Comanche blood from somewhere down the line
@@chillones9574 oh wow! Thats incredible!
I use some of your stuff to teach my daughter about our native American heritage (APACHE), and you're ALWAYS spot on. Thank you from her and me.
I highly recommend the book "Empire of the Summer Moon" by S. C. Gwynne. It is one of the best history books I have ever read. And I love that you're teaching your daughter such history.
One of my best friends throughout my 25+ years as a truck driver was a Mescalero Apache. What an amazing man and friend.
i did some road work with the navajos.Pretty easy going friendly folks with a good sense of humor.If you drink with them you take your chances.Fights are common
Y u indians always so violent?
@@andrewpinkham9904 That’s because all N.A.’s lack the Gene to break down alcohol. Scientific fact.
This is the best account of regional history I have seen. I very much appreciate the presentation style and well-researched material.
My GG Grandmother was a full blooded Mescalero Apache. My GG Grandfather and his dad farmed near the foothills north of Las Cruces. The local Apache tribe was starving and mere remnants of former numbers. Only a few hundred remained by 1870. They traded elk meat and hides for other foodstuffs with my ancestor but warned him never to enter the mountains and kill THIER Elk. All still lived in terror of the Comanche raids to cleanse New Mexico of the Spanish. I read somewhere that the Mescaleros invited small numbers of Comanche to join the Mescalero reservation but have not confirmed that comment.
Rfoggooo❤
My GG was a mountain man named bear claw by the Indians, he was loved by many animal. He could shoot the legs off a fly at 1000 yards,
@@chocolateface8664 Chuck Norris checks under his bed for my ancestors - Steven Seagull modeled his tough-guy persona on my warrior clan's reputation!
@@dancarter482 - Is that the same Steven Seagull who is related to Jonathan?
@@dougearnest7590 Living-Stone; he'll raid ya bins & steal your chips!
Would love to see a video on the Cherokee and Creek conflicts. You rarely see anything on it, but large amounts of Creek territory were displaced by Cherokee, before the Cherokee then being displaced themselves.
We heard about how the Muskogee often were at war with the Cherokee in Northern Alabama. The Cherokees also helped Andrew Jackson defeat the Muskogee ay The Battle of Horseshoe Bend. Jackson betrayed them later though with the Indian Removal Act of 1830.
prairie nigers lived in states of constant brutal violence. Empathy was a european trait. But of course in an age of dewhitification of humanity, true history is lost.
@@Daron7181 Yeah.... the Cherokee are often sort of presented as innocent and peaceful, and almost naïve. They were anything but originally, they came into the south and Carolinas, TN, GA etc dominating the local tribes as a very expansionist group themselves. They were known to love hunting and waring, and the preferred the latter at that time. (words of another tribe I read) They made war with the colonists at first, including several grim massacres, but when they realized that wasn't working they quickly adapted to the NEW English culture, traded with them, and took advantage and adapted their technology. Under the new western culture they flourished, they created their own writing, they became very much apart of colonial America, adopting western farming, housing, and lifestyle, but they also got a little soft. The Trail of Tears was by far one of the darkest moments in American history, and esp where I live it tore local families apart that were very much a mix of settlers and Cherokee. It was a complete betrayal of a people who had become allies to the fledgling states. MANY so called "white" families in East Tennessee were in fact predominantly Cherokee. However if we're to be honest historically, I am sure many southern tribes would have seen it as Karma as the Cherokee had displaced many tribes before them and then helped the likes of Jackson in the Indian wars. I think the entire history of the Cherokee is interesting, and I wish we could remove the lens of modern PC, revision, and take a look at them as they were, and their entire arch. From fierce warriors to educated and civilized farmers, to victims of their own success. After all the whole reason for the Indian Removal Act was lust for the successful and bountiful farms and settlements they had created by newcomers who had no history with them. Older colonial families saw them as part of their community and had married in with them. Still I know little about teh pre-Columbian history or even their very early history coming into the southern areas, I would really like to learn more and separate the fact from the myths.
a good book that touches this subject is "Creek Mary's Blood"
@@SargNickFury Ultimately White man's desire to conquer everyone and everything caused this conflict. White man's presence, pressure, and taking of land and resources FORCED Native American tribes to move and relocate, causing them to have conflict with other groups of Native Americans.
White man nearly drove the bison to extinction because they wanted the bison's hide, but, also they knew that by eliminating bison, they'd be eliminating the main food source of Native Americans.
Empire of the summer moon started me on this part of American history..so fascinating to learn of pre-colonial era warriors. The Comanche story is impressive-their adaptation to mounted nomadic warriors living primarily on meat reminds me of the Mongols
I absolutely love that book
You'll love "Man Corn" by Christy G . Turner.
Recently read Commanche Moon and the Rise of Quanah Parker. Great presentation here, thank you.
Wow this is the most detailed telling of this I have ever heard. My great, great grandfather was Chiricahua from the Gila area in AZ. Thank you for sharing this forgotten history.
My great great grandfather was Quanah Parker. Our ancestors wow just wild times.
@@chillones9574 And look now, here we are just chatting on social media! Our ancestors would have never imagined it. 😂😂
Are you even for real and have you looked in the 🪞 carefully at yourself? 😂 You are a descendant of pale-face colonizers and because you may have the blood of the people do not make you our people. Feel how you want to because many of us do not claim generational mutts as our people.
What a great video!
As a European I had no idea of this section of history. I guess having been spoon fed westerns, Karl May's stories, history lessons about the Frontier pushing west and General Custer's expeditions as well as a lot of New Age idolatrie of how they lived in harmony with nature, it's great to hear more about the native Indian tribes and their fate and exploits.
The way the Comanches fought reminds me of how the Mongols and earlier peoples from the Asian steppes (like the Huns) did. I wonder if the Comanches also applied feint retreats to lure an enemy in breaking formation and then turning around to surround small units and annihilate them one by one. Given their brutality and single mindedness it seems like something they could have done.
And I'm quite eager to learn how the Apaches fared. Can't wait for the follow up!
The steppe people crossed the bearing straight ice bridge to become Native Americans. They share the same blood.
As a Germanic/ Norse man I spent my life on basically the History of my peoples. I have more recently explored the early interactions in the NYC area from early on in the interactions between the 2 . Great review! loved it
Very interesting. Thanks for making this. We're doing a disservice by not teaching the complete history of Native Americans. They were much more than the stoic, peaceful , erudite, and condescending stereotype we constantly see in pop culture. They were human just like we are. They had their good and bad same as anyone else.
I normally can't sit through videos like these, but you are such a good story teller
As a european boy I loved to read Fenimor Cooper"s books about Hawks Eye and Karl May's Winnetou series. Allways wondered why the Iroquois or Comanche fought other tribes. Thanks for revealing that!!! There were so many agressors on the american continent, that is still amazing there are natives alive.
Not quite as long as there’s game and housing materials humans tend to experience population booms. Needing to create wealth in order to live takes a much greater deal of importance once a financial system regulates people’s lives and controls how they spend their time if they don’t want their stuff taken away though
@Lamar Davis you act as if they didn't do it among themselves first. prior to the Europeans they were actively murdering each other to the tune of massacre in d major for generations. the Europeans were just better at it. there are no remaining natives who live completely but the old tribal traditions because many such traditions no longer have a useful place in the world. much like the native languages they are dying because the children of the tribes increasingly stop learning them due to lack of utility. the cree language as an example is useful only among the cree, and they do no make a large enough nor concentrated enough group to get much use from it. it sucks but such is life
@Lamar Davis the world gets ruled by the survivors so yes in that time being better at killing is a desirable civilization trait.
the fallacy is trying to assign Europe bad because they moved into others lands and took over. while excusing the same behavior of the ones who were pushed out. the point is the native tribes were as happy to extinct each other as the Europeans were to help them. the whole reason the comanche went after the apache is because the apache pushed them out, and as soon as the comanche got the chance they did the same right back. all the European powers were doing was playing the big boy version of the same game. the story would have been the exact same regardless of if it had been the Polynesians in charge or china or the Zulu. no nation on earth in that time given the chance and power of the European powers would have hesitated to do the same or worse than was done (and there were vastly worse peoples to be taken over by than the French and brits).
how are you defining the worst wars? as I can thing of several wars of extermination in Asia, for example Genghis was fond of extinction events to show his displeasure. the wars between the Hutu's and tootsies in Rwanda get pretty far down the horror slope. if your just talking casualties then yes the largest corpse piles are in Europe but beyond size they mostly were not that bad as Europe stopped doing wars of extermination fairly early on. the thing is you need to define what traits your assigning as bad because the metrics change with the assigned traits. Europe for example has little signs of eating or sacrificing prisoners but Polynesia and south America not so much.
what rights are stripped and a when? north America has had Europeans for near 500 yrs and the powers are not monoliths what was condoned by Spain was condemned by the British more often than not. as of today no right of citizenship is denied any native in the US. if as a native you desire to work or live anywhere you are free to do so. granted that was not always the case but that is the US not every north American nation. so for clarity what time frame and what specifics are you talking of. if it is historical chances are I will agree with you depending on when and what as some actions taken were seen as bad even by the people of the time. others were just the standard of the day in which case I can't condemn one without condemning the other (not in good conscience at least)
@Lamar Davis you make a lot of false assumptions. right and wrong have nothing to do with it, nor does deserve. the polish have been conquered repeatedly because they were weaker then their neighbors. given the time and place their fall was inevitable. after conquest as was the standard of the day they faced suppression that was the way of things, and no one of the time was surprised by it.
no all of the tribes had intertribal wars. in the more complex cases it was tribal unions against other tribal unions but they all warred with one another and most were very proud of slaughtering their enemies.
you say many nations value peace...so? peace is desired at times among all nations. also desired is land power and recourses. with more advanced nations other less obvious reasons for conflict occur but end of the day peace is just the waiting period between wars and I dare you to name one nation beyond a village of amazon tribals who has no recorded wars.
I asked you for specifics not general talking points. these tribes you talk of dieing ok and how was it done? was there camps, was it rampant disease they had no immunity to, was it decades of war and their pop cratered as they died to fast to replace.
in north America no one was going around targeting native cultures, no great bon fires of artifacts no deliberate killings of story tellers. the closest you had was the residential schools and yeah those were bad but nothing stopped the parents and elders teaching the young people when they returned nor was anything stopping said young at any time post seeking such answers from their tribal elders. the only part you can lay at the Europeans is we took over, the schools separated the young for an extended time. baring the abuses that again were bad nothing there stopped those effected seeking their tribal identity. if you want to see real deliberate cultural genocide look up how the Spanish did things . there is only small fragments of indigenous culture left all through south America. its disinterest killing indigenous language and culture now and that is self inflicted.
i am very aware of the damage of the World wars that's why I asked your criteria. as body count wise as I noted yeah big time damage. but both wars were fairly localized in other ways. where as ghengis when offended did not hesitate to erase entire peoples
the Vikings were colonizers the only difference is time and tech. their influence is found all over Europe and beyond. not going to go too deep as they are a discussion of their own.
the Koreans tried. their navy at the time was one of the best their land forces... not so much. for the Koreans to go to the Polynesians they needed pass china and/or japan both of whom had navies of their own and spent half their time invading Korea thus the reason for the strong Korean navy. that said the Koreans were just as invasion happy just never could make it stick
the Inca peaceful? guessing you never read anything on them. yes they had their client states (most of whom were suppressed by prior wars), the Inca also had regular wars with any not aligned natives in reach f their highly mobile well armed and supplied army.. lets not also forget the lovely Inca practice of beheading or removing the hearts of war captives to appease their gods. yes so very peaceful.
why didn't the Inca colonize the region... they did. those client states became so because the Inca invaded and forced submission. sure after the fact they were not bad overlords as far as it goers but does not change the fact those who were free and sovereign were not after the fact
the Spanish only succeeded in overthrowing the Inca because their neighbors and client states hated them. Cortez had 300 or so men. the Inca army could field 10's of thousands. without native help he could never have toppled the Inca with the forces he had. yes today the remnants of the native population face challenges that stem from the Spanish rule. compared to the Spanish the US trail of tears was a picnic. the northern tribes were lucky they got the French and English as both were far more concerned with the cash value returns from natives than with the social aspect. for the Spanish of the day conversion to Catholicism was a priority for the British (who already had a form of freedom of religion) and the French (who had other concerns) native culture and practices were at best an afterthought.
so the natives had civil rights issues till the 60's? i'm sorry but maybe my math is wrong but pretty sure that puts it around 3 generations ago (a generation being approx 20 yrs) the right to vote although important hardly cripples you. now lets say they were denied the right to work, or own land yeah those would be crippling oppressions while not having a vote hurts it isn't crippling. didn't ignore the boarding schools but as noted above once out nothing stopped those same students seeking to relearn their culture
you say barriers to voting.. like what? is there guards to stop them casting a vote? no polling stations in their towns? what specifically is preventing the native vote? are they prevented from assembling? (i know for a fact they are not as they have had several protests in my life time). if you can show an actual injustice from lets say the last 40 yrs that is a law or enforcement causing or preventing then hey I'm on your side but you need to show an actual act targeting natives or other group. not liking a pipeline route isn't an oppression (one of the protests I know of and for the record agree with to a point).
worst in history? yeah you don't read much history. prior to the European rules of war do you know what the standard act was when taking over new lands? spoiler it is mentioned in the bible a couple times. the migrating people would kill or outright enslave any of the original inhabitants they could catch. you would see cities leveled entire tribes erased in a night. the Europeans didn't to do this even the Spanish did not do it (arguably they were not far off) by the time of the colonization (a period that spanned from 1562 to the 1900's) the players and objectives changed but beyond a few outliers (the Beothuk in newfoundland being one ) the tribes were mostly not wiped out pushed off what had been their lands yes but exterminated no. what happened to the natives was no different than what the comache in the vid did to the apache , or the apache did to them prior. only difference was scale and ability to make it stick
spread of disease is not a crime in a time prior to germ theory nice try tho.
yes the comanche take over of apache lands in the above video defiantly didn't involve forced relocation, desecration of sacred sites, nor murder, rape, forced labour or slavery nope they was saints I tells you.
it is no different in any way that counts. just so happens it looks real bad from the losers side. the natives lost and are living with the regrettable consequences of it. on the plus side they were not actually targeted for extermination as had been common a few thousand years prior.
no I acknowledge Europe's history the good and the bad. just not silly enough to think they were unique. Europe has been the bastion of higher thinking in the last 600 years or so, for a time it was the middle east before that India and china. and every last one of them has done similar acts to those unable to stop them. forced relocation hell the video above notes an extended war of extermination to drive the apache from the plains and notes very clearly some of the tamer atrocities. I don't see you condemning those. nor am I asking you too. it was what happened it was before both our times by a long shot. the comanche tried to exterminate the apache and as I understand it the apache eventually managed to turn it around and near exterminated the comache. how is their deliberate geocide of each other any different from similar wrongs done by European powers in the past? what makes their mass murder better?
no one denies what king Leopold did in the Congo was a crime. niether is the US trail of tears romanticized as a great victory.
@Lamar Davis never said favored going to war I said did go to war. they are two different things
in several instance the video for one it is noted and known that yes tribes occasionally did in fact try to wipe each other out. you keep acting like Europe had some planned over arching goal to wipe out the indigenous population... they didn't. you and people like you keep trying to pain a process that took hundreds of years as if it was a decade. it was not the first north American colony was in the late 1400's, the comanche wars were in the 1850's and those were only the mid point of the European expansions. the final state was finalized in the late 1800's to early 1900's (can't be bothered to get the exact date)
the colonization of the Americas were a series of fall backs by the native populations because they lacked the numbers and power to hold the borders. as they were outnumbered in a region they fell back some fought causing the US Indian wars, others were just attacked as was done with Andrew Jacksons illegal invasion of Florida (this was a crime even in his day), mostly tho they just got out numbered by settlers pushing beyond prior borders in violation of treaties in the US case they had no intention of keeping (also a crime by the standards of the day) of course by then the over hunting had caused near irreparable ecological damage etc. this was not a great well thought out plan it was simply the results of circumstances. the natives lacked the unity and by the time of the 1800's lacked the numbers to stop it history is full of similar stories. the Turks are originally from the northern steps but now adays they magically are in Anatolia, the Huns drove the goths Visigoths and Slavs before them into Europe forced migrations are not new.
ok so my half remembered numbers of Cortez army was inaccurate..... and? he was out numbered thousands to one without local help he had no chance of taking the Inca on. fortunately for him he had no issues finding people work with him. If the Inca were as loved as you suggest he would not have found enough support but he did. now clearly I am not using too many speciffics because they don't matter to the over all point. the inca, Maya and aztecs were not strangers to war.
your strange defense of human sacrifice as "not" cruel is just odd. it is the literal deliberate murder that was done multiple times a year every year in each city even if it was just one per it is still barbaric. now I am willing accept that for them it was the norm. unfortunately for them it was not the norm most anywhere else.
I count all deliberate murder of large numbers of people equally. I did not go into the Russian death marches, the kulaks , the Khmer rouge, or any of the others to specifically condemn them because we were not discussing them. but if it helps you sleep yes all genocides are bad however what happened with the natives is mostly not a genocide (still bad but not a genocide) the reason is simple it was not a targeted attempt to kill them (if it had been they would not still exist) the natives fell to something in some ways worse irrelevance. once they were broken (a consequence of many factors) they were pushed aside. the tribes signed the treaties (the first ones being incredibly predatory). now for the record at least in Canada the residential schools were not originally intended to do anything but provide education so the natives could function outside the reservations. obviously that is not what happened and no one in my life has ever tried to say the abuses that happened were a good thing. they should not have been allowed to happen. that you could accurately say was deliberate acts to remove native culture as letters and such exist saying as much (not just from victims) but even so as I noted before nothing was stopping those young people from seeking out their culture and stories if they chose to.
are all people capable of committing the same levels of violence and atrocities? yes unequivocally yes. not only are they capable every last blood line surviving today has a some point done it. the Iroquois were not shy about killing their enemies including slaughtering entire villages, the Cree, comanche, apache, the Maori etc all over the world you see the same trend with the right situation you get the same atrocities over and over. it isn't a society thing nor an ethnic thing it is standard in humans all humans. The comache tried to exterminate the Apache in the vid because they hated them but they were not shy about attacking others either. the plains had plenty of land they could have made peace and lived with more unity but nope for many reasons most known only to themselves they chose to murder each other until they were eventually both pushed off.
things not new to the natives: forced migration under pain of death, slavery, forced labour (see slavery), destruction of cultural sites, famine (hunter gatherers are always a meal away from starving), forced assimilation (see slavery)
not unprecedented it was millions over near 500 years this drops the yearly deaths to tens of thousands spared over a vast area. it isn't as impressive when put in proper context
yes natives versus European wars did occur but of those 500 or so years most of the time it was low key raids and local massacres (committed by both sides), or the tribe was hired as mercenaries to fight for the colonial forces against other colonial forces and their native axillaries (most common on the east coastal and Appalachian regions)
not gonna lie the US ecological standards suck donkey dong.
yes the natives lost their round of the civilization game. news flash they are not the first nor the last. right now they have a choice, and it is an individual choice accept you lost pick up the pieces and move on or winge over the fact you lost. right now this day outside of available funds there is nothing stopping a native person living in any fashion they choose. get an education, don't get an education, work don't work it all the same choices everyone else has. if they desire to know of their tribal culture it is on them to seek those answers (best they do it soon as increasingly fewer practice the culture and languages). now the stuff about infringing on tribal lands (the stuff that by laws is their not the ancient lands lost hundreds of years ago) yeah that's dirty pool and the tribes absolutely should fight it in court etc.
for the record the comanche and apache both actively attacked anyone in range.
your making a classic mistake. in history right and wrong are meaningless. the justification was because we could that's it . the land was there and the tribes could not adequately defend it. so they lost it. it is the same story replayed across millennia. The only thing that change was the reach. when the Jews invade Canaan they butcherer everyone save the virgin girls...I don't think I need go into why. the comache attacked and massacred tribes and settlements again taking young girls and boys.
it is common among modern people to try applying modern sensibilities to ages past and it does not work. the entire frame of thought used has completely different foundations. no Viking thought it wrong to enslave an Irishman to work the oars. any more than the Irishman wouldn't do the exact same if given the chance. the natives warred and fought each other forcing migrations into lesser lands if the losing tribe did not flee they died. the only difference is how recent and scale and even scale is inaccurate, because as you rightly point out not all tribes are the same. it isn't shared trauma it is dozens of similar but different trauma only tied together by they all were on the losing end
My great grandmother bless her soul was Spanish and Apache. I've learned so much from this because she was ashamed of it and would rarely speak about it. She was born in the early 1900's
Was she a catholic by any chance?
@richardmullins1883 yes absolutely yes, she passed away thinking I still went to mass lol but yeah now I have a feeling that had something to do with it
@@jerlaine1638 the catholics were good at making people ashamed of their original non catholic background. They recently found many remains of Cree children here in Saskatchewan on land where there was a catholic school...so they've got no place to make people ashamed of the past. I recommend the book Empire of the summer moon which covers the Comanche in more detail and of course covers a lot about their sworn enemies the Apache.
name? jaramillo, sanchez, garcia, etc ??
@nlcatter I'm a Candelario however that's my great-grandfather's name and he's Mexican.
His wife my Great Grandmother and her mother who were from the rez and all my mother can recall was calling her Grandma Sophia and she's the 1 who is Apache according to my grandfather
I can imagine Apache councils sitting around discussing what to do about the Comanche. I bet everyone laughed when some young brave said “let’s get the Spanish to fight the Comanche.” Then, they all cheered later when the chief made the same proposal.
I'm Comanche and how dare you suggest we weren't peace loving hippies! Haven't you seen Hollywood?..... (Satire 😂)
Outstanding narration of unreported history. Always a good listen.
The ironic thing is, the horse evolved in North America and migrated out across the Bearing Straight during the last ice age. In North America the horse went extinct. Only to be returned by boat centuries later.
I love that story so much but when I tell it to most people they do not get the same kick out if it that I do.
@@datesanddeadguys WOW! Thanks for the note! I too get that kick you mean. WOO! HOO!
"In North America the horse went extinct" - Because newly arrived Native Americans hunted remaining North American horses down by 8000 BCE.
And more ironically, the re-introduction of horses to North America was due to Christopher Columbus.
@@harleyquinn8202 ...Source? I'm honestly interested.
Interesting video. I was educated in England in the 1970s and they left out massive parts of our own history (but did touch on the American Civil War). Our understanding of what happened in other countries was what we saw in Hollywood movies. Thanks for posting this, I enjoyed it.
Empire of the Summer Moon is an incredible book and gives all the gruesome honest details of each side. Crazy piece of history
That book has terrible inaccuracies, I'm afraid to tell you. If you want actual honest details go to the source. That author got many things wrong.
@@kingkeeno1711 Much of what he wrote about came from eyewitness accounts.
Aussie here. That was a fascinating presentation. Factual, well presented and engaging. I do like a factual "warts and all" history.
I notice comments about why this history isn't taught and I dare say it's for the same reason we don't teach much about Australian Aboriginal history, it's not politically convenient. It's hard to paint the white guys as land stealing invaders if the original inhabitants were doing the same thing to each other.
Native American tribes' histories were taught during my 7th grade Texas history class although the historical narratives were brief as were discussions covering the Texas colonization periods (Spanish, French, and Mexican). However, the Comanche nation and their land, Comancheria, dominated the subject of Texas' Indian tribes. I imagine most Texans from my generation were/are quite familiar with the Comanche war chief Quanah Parker.
A Sioux once bemaoned that the US aArmy/WHites wwere doing to them what they had been doing to the Pawnee, Crow, Shoshone etc for decades.
Teaching history did not begin at the stealing invaders part though. The omissions on what the pre colonial or non colonial people were doing exist because it goes against the cultural narrative kinda prevalent in all colonizing groups of the history of this land kinda begins with us narrative. This is not limited to the industrial era colonialism though but all the one that existed prior and likely will exist in the future. It’s unlikely that if a humanoid species makes it out of this Earth there will be great efforts to preserve earth history among them and most stuff will focus in however their new founding fathers and early conflicts are.
@@locknload4691 I am from Europe: we have had our differences between our tribes as well.
Celts, Germans, Saxons, Gauls, Tartars, Vikings: you name it.
Now all tribal people accuse US of your tribal wars... BECAUSE WE ENDED IT
humanity....
Rofl. Ah, a racist trying to further his own agenda. And here I thought you actually cared about history.
I'm incredibly grateful to have found this channel. Thank you.
I am incredibly grateful that batman likes history videos.
Excellent job. Well researched. And the rare low key commentary the way a documentary should be narrated. I look forward to more of your work, and highly recommend this video. Oh, and loved the use of paintings for graphics.
Oh wow, this is so intresting but with all the human suffering also sad at the same time.
Greeting from Germany.
Absolutely. I’m trying to tell an interesting and engaging story but at the same time it is just horrifying and tragic because it’s true. Thanks for watching.
This was awesome. I’m a native of the Pomo tribe out of Big Valley, and I love learning about other native tribes and cultures so thank you.
Great coverage and background of events spanning centuries! Loved it.
An outstanding presentation of the complexities of native American history. Well done! Of the three histories you cite, I've read only Gwynne, which in my estimation is indispensable. I've ordered the books by Fehrenbach and Britten.
Being small helped the Comanche a ton as well. Mustangs aren't huge, living off the land as nomads makes caloric requirements difficult to meet, their gear was minimal as well.
So efficient.
However but People always act as if only the Europeans were the bad guys in America. But the Native Americans were no better either. Because they have done all the bad things that the Europeans have done. Including oppression, enslavement and genocides.
Also being small makes them harder to shoot with arrows or muskets
@@wutm8 In fact, the Comanches forged an alliance with the Spanish against the Apaches. Therefore, the Spaniards delivered the Comanches weapons and ammunition. The content of the contract, which provided for joint military action against the Apaches, also included that the Comanches received a bonus for each Apache killed, for a warrior killed (from the age of 14) around 100 pesos, for a woman 50 pesos and for a child 25 Pesos. Then a peso was about a dollar, but after the American-Mexican War premiums on Apache scalps were increased significantly to offset inflation.
Well, blooded horses like Thoroughbreds couldn't be expected to run wild and live by foraging.
How were they small? Average height was 5,6, that was a bit taller than the average European at that time and around the same height as the European American.
Wow, that was very well presented and informative. I learned a lot about the subject matter, and the editing with the artwork was excellent! ❤😊
Very kind, thank you.
I'm full blooded Diné and Nakai Diné this is very interesting considering the bloodline I might have in connection with these other tribes
Respect to your ancestors
From a Nga Puhi Maori
Some Apache blood mixed with Navajo, sometimes, black and Mexican too, as they were captured as slaves, and assimilated into Dine…some also our Northern Athabaskan blood, Dene, of Canada and Alaska, tall and lean.
Wait - I thought all the Indians just painted with all the colors of the wind in peace and harmony.
😂😂😂 your sense of humor is savage. You can count on this: anything Dis.Ne.y touches is a lie.
Good joke. Ironically, that movie starts out with the Pocahontas’ tribe the which tribe was the Powhatan at war with at the beginning of Pocahontas Powhatan returning victoriously from war with the Massowamecks, a rival nation to the north. I’ve known about the intertribal warfare between the Native nations for decades.Maybe because its history is well known in my state with the descendants of those rival tribes still living there. It’s just the warfare between Europeans and Natives eclipses intertribal warfare in American history. Tecumseh was the only Native leader that was semi successful in uniting many of the native tribes despite all the bad blood between them. Other than that, they were mostly at war with each other as most ethnic groups were. There was no sense of pan-native, pan-African, Pan-Asian, or even pan European solidarity at that time.
@@DarrenMoore-le6pgTrue indeed. And a bit surprising as well.
This was the first video I’ve seen from your channel, but must say, I’m impressed. Read the book by S.C. Gwynne you mentioned (LOVED it!) and have always had a fascination with Native history. Getting harder to find material where I can still learn new info, but this looks like a good place…got yourself a new sub. Keep it up!
Thanks for reference to Empire of the Summer Moon. Great read on this history in southwest. Your maps were great help in understanding the scope of this fight.
Really enjoyed this documentary, and particularly your style of narration. Smooth and laid back, it sounds like you are talking to us directly, not just reading a script.
Outstanding! By far the most accurate & entertaining account of native American history I've found on youtube. Compelling for all the right reasons. Narrator uses descriptive vocabulary to paint evocative images, while avoiding cluttered dialogue with overused adjectives. Solid.
And you used ten adjectives.
The comanche sounds like the Mongols of America, great video! Keep them coming.
I am a New Zealand Maori
My tribe Nga Puhi use to raid and pillage up and down the country, similar to the Comanche. But we didn't have horses. Being an island nation, we used war canoes, which were sleeker and faster than normal canoes.
I think that is a valid comparison. The Mongols were also masters of the horse, and, of course, were equally terrorizing and unbelievably cruel. Neither did they cultivate food. They stole everything they needed through raiding and pillaging. But their primary weapon was the bow rather than the lance. The Mongols met their match in Hungary when the Hungarians changed their battle tactics by a scorched earth policy and the building of many castles to house and protect the peasants and their food supplies. The land was stripped of everything which could support life, the provisions having been placed safely within castle walls. The Mongols had neither the time nor the energy to invest castle after caste. They were left in a virtual desert, and a whole army starved to death before they could withdraw and reach their own empire to the east. The Comanches ultimately faced a similar end as the bison were killed off and the Americans attacked them with repeating weapons like the revolver and hunted them down to the point of total exhaustion.
As a Quahadi Comanche myself, I can say the backstory to our family and it's stories of our ancestors basically line up with that. Empire of the Summer Moon is a good book if you want more specifics
Was thinking the same. Fascinating!
I agree the Huns of America's
great channel, I love how youtube is becoming a hub for often overlooked historical events and people now, keep it up (subscribed)
This is learning. I'm engaged, getting facts deeper than I already knew but not overwhelmed with frivolous detail. Already I see history has a way of repeating itself in ways I never thought of. In this I mention the Vikings. Various tribes from the Danes to the Nords feels a bit like the Native American tribes in their movements and power levels over time.
The important thing here, the Comanche didn't call themselves Comanche AND not all the warriors in the Comanche Army are related by Tribe. It's a confederation of Tribes. If you are sitting in a canyon listening to your Comanche wife bitch about running out of flour, AND you know where there is some flour.... You asdk your buddies if they want to go down to Walmart, right?
Insert (some othe tribe's camp that has flour in the story) AND that is the purpose for raids. The Indian tribes didn't have the "money system' concept.
The only way to get massive amounts of "stuff for free" was to take it by force.
It's a game. Not political in nature.
The thought behind it is, "Apache did it to us", we do it back. Not about right or wrong.
You keep what you kill, Law of the Plains
There is a line in Thucydides’s Peloponnesian War I thought about while researching this quite a bit. There is a section, many years into the conflict where the Athenians travel to the island of Melos. They demand that the Melians pay them tribute or that they would be slaughtered. The Melians tried to reason with the Athenians and swore that the Spartans would avenge them. The Athenians are to have said “The strong do as they will and the weak suffer what they must.” Before slaughtering the men and taking the women and children as slaves. I tried to get that sentiment across in the video. Our pacified world of institutions that arbitrate for us is not the world of the past.
@@datesanddeadguys excellent !!!!
So, the Apache were "playing the game" there, a politcal move, and lost.
The Emeny of my Enemy is my friend.
Wonder which San Antonian recognized after the Apache refused to move to the settlement, it was a trap?
That's a smart realization really for a bunch of guys sitting in a large house by a river and not any real enemys around to learn such devious ways. Even more clever for the Apaches to think it up.Sounds Roman in nature.
“Nords” is a Skyrim concept buddy, it’s not a real thing …
@@whynottalklikeapirat Correct, but it came from Norse which was what we wherem also Viking is an occupation, not a tribe
Interesting piece.
The karankawa, iroquois and their cannibalism, like the mayans, their sacrificing their own regularly was ghoulish as well.
Outstanding work, sir. You have well-researched content, calm delivery, yet liven it up with the occasional pop-up comments that add a bit of humor. Mixed together it's _very_ informative and entertaining. Thank you. Liked and subscribed.
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My compliments for the mountain of prep work you had to do for the content, visuals to overlay the spoken word, and all the work in post. Bravo. (Cool channel name, too.)
Thank you. You highlighted a lot of thing I put a lot of time and effort into and I am grateful that it is noticed.
I am descended from that history. As i grew from a child to young man, my grandfather’s admonition when things got hard was to remember that i was Apache. That toughened my resolve. It was my source of spiritual center. As a young man i studied the history of the Apache and the history of the region. I loved my home of Northern Arizona and Western New Mexico. Life has carried me many places, and i have lived among many cultures, and yet to hear someone share the history of my home and people, my heart swells. Your presentation is well told, and aside from some pronunciation errors, accurate history.
All people be it White, Red, Black, or Yellow need to have a stong connection to their ancestors. This modern world really tries to steal that from our men.
I just passed through the White Mountain Apache reservation on a road trip through Arizona. Stunningly beautiful country up there. Unspoiled pine forests with open meadows, creeks and lakes.
My son-in-law is Comanche. He was raised with Apache's from Geronimo's band. They still share a reservation with the Kiowa's, Apache and Comanche outside of ft. Sill OK. He is extremely proud of being Comanche. His dad a famous artist and flute player.
Charles Littleleaf or Carlos Nakhi?
@@brushwolf No, Doc Tate Nevaquaya
@@brushwolf No Doc Tate Nevaquaya
From what I have heard they basically tortured/mutilated and executed anyone they found though. No real mercy shown. Therefore imo nothing to be proud about. Besides the horsemanship.
@@darkfoxjjyea they were legitimately universally reviled by ALL other Native tribes and ALL Europeans for being needlessly cruel savages.
But since they are direct descendants of the Aztecs who fled north after their cannibal death cult was overthrown in Mexico, and who promptly ate the entirety of the Hopi and Anasazi and Puebla tribes of southwest US when they arrived at the beginning of the 17th century, this makes sense.
Randomly got this in my youtube feed. I was sceptial at the first minutes but continued and 10 mins in I was hooked. Great stuff and you tell it very well, it never ceased to be interesting. Got a sub from me.
This is my first time viewing this channel. I found myself transfixed to your presentation of Apache/Comanche/Spanish warfare. You did a great job and this has garnered you an instant subscribe. Thank you.
As a boy in Europe, who grew up on Karl May's and James Fenimore Cooper's books allways was interesting in the history of the native Americans but I've never heard about this war. I knew there were some wars between the tribes but I didn't imagine they were so brutal and bloody.
Adolf hitler was a fan of Karl May's books'
Well, Karl May didn't really know much about native Americans. At all.
Thank you for shedding light on this subject. Despite their ultimate failure, the fact that the Apache were so good at the political manipulation of their enemies speaks to the sophistication of their society. This is important for people to understand. Just because they were not as technologically advanced as Europeans does not mean they were uncivilized. These were peoples with long traditions and an amassed body of knowledge that was the equal of other peoples around the planet. I find it interesting that what made the Comanche suddenly so fearsome is basically the same thing that made the steppe horsemen of Asia so dangerous. Great stuff!
Difference being the superior recurve bow.
Well said James. I was not aware that the Apache and Comanche fought each other in such a long and brutal war. You summed this up well. Take care!
@Gib59er isn't that amazing how every race of people on every different continent all shared a willingness to kill each other brutally for whatever reason, kinda sad
From what I understand, as late as the4 1920's there was still a band of Apache warriors eluding detection and living in the mountains.
Great storytelling. I love it thank you. Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦
Thanks for watching. I appreciate the kind words.
This is one of the best history channels on UA-cam
Very high praise. I’m doing my best, thank you.
THANK YOU!!!!! It's an unbelievable tragedy that you only have 22K subscribers. You deserve way more. Like, 100TIMES MORE
I started this just a year ago. Give it time. I have some confidence I can make it something more respectable. I do really appreciate the praise. Thank you.
@@datesanddeadguys well you definitely have the charisma, material, and knowledge. I'm looking forward to seeing it develop
🙏
Why in the Hell did I just find your channel or it pop up on my feed, THIS IS AWESOME AND TRULY AMAZING FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME THAT SIMPLY ADORES THE HISTORY OF NATIVE CULTURE, I LOVED EVERY DAMN SECOND OF THIS & I'M DEFINITELY RECOMMENDING YOU TO ALL MY FRIENDS & FAMILY, TRULY AWESOME BIG GUY!!!!! ✌🏾
If i didn't know any better ( and i do) I'd be foaming at the bit about this very accurate and very honest CRT lesson😆 we appreciate real American history out here on the reservation! Thanks for your content, keep it up.
The chilling way you said “if you were within 400 miles of the Comanche, you were in danger” was magnificent
Indian Territory was the word they used back then. No knew what was beyond. Few people lived to tell the tale.
Oh My God, this was some AWESOME narration of history reading the native Indians of the American plains...can't wait for more.👍👍
As a boy I had a real fascination with American natives but no idea anything as wild as this video lays out was happening, thanks for posting.
Steve, Perth, Western Australia ☺
I remember visiting Indian Painting at Philmont Scout Camp in New Mexico. One of the old rock paintings showed farms with corn on one side of the river and men with bows on the other.
Our camp guide asked us to interpret the painting. I had read the book empire of the summer moon and knew the maps of the extant of Comanche territory which bordered on Philmont. So i toldour group the painting showed Apache farms on one side of the river and Comanche raiders on the other.
Great presentation. I’ve always argued that the Western hemisphere had been in a continual battle for supremacy for centuries. It’s easy to vilify those who eventually won, not acknowledging that it was only part of a very violent process. There were hardly any “peaceful” participants, and “ownership” of the land changed with the wind. It was inevitable that eventually a more technologically advanced culture would settle the issue once and for all. History is literally packed with identical stories through the ages.
No shit. It's called nature
@@TheSultan1470it’s called trade, flow of ideas and technology with other cultures.
@@pasofino9583 Yeah, living out in the wild, eating people, going to war over someone having sexual relations with a member of another tribe, really technological stuff.
@@TheSultan1470 I’m referring to the more technologically advanced European powers that eventually came in and took over. It was the natural and inevitable course of events, but people still piss, moan, and judge without any historical context
@@nickrugg Of course. It's called civilized boredom.
I’ve found Native American history fascinating. When I was young history was my favorite subject. I am not claiming to be Native American, but my great grandmother told me that I had a relative (6 generations from me we believe) walk the trail of tears. Which was barley covered in my school lessons. I find this a shame, we need to know the history or we WILL be doomed to repeat it. In a lot of ways you can say the Spanish and English were as vengeful as the Comanche by not telling their history or traditions. Screen shot alot of the books you showed and I will be reading these. Thanks for the great video and teaching us what our education system did not.
History will repeat itself even if we know history just because shit happens like rivers drying up, resources running out, etc. and it always leads to conflict. If we do away with conflicts we'll just be reduced to wandering around starving and dying of disease like a bunch of rabbits instead of getting a better and more glorious death in combat.
You might consider that the Spanish and American conquest of these tribes was not the most significant event that happened to either of those cultures. The history of the Americans and the Spanish are filled with much more historically important events such as the Mexican War of Independence and the American Revolution and Civil War of which we know almost every detail. The fact that the vanquished participants of those wars also knew how to read and write made the knowledge of what happened more available. The Comanches and the Apaches couldn't read or write much and almost everything was passed down in stories. Much of the history had to be pieced together by interested authors. Also at that time, both the Americans and the Spanish had faced scores, maybe hundreds, of tribes, many of which had equally rich histories. Sometimes hundreds of years had to be part of the history and we still don't have it all right. There is nothing vengeful about it, it just took time and there was probably a lot that wasn't true they had to sort through. In that time, or not long after, even the true events at the OK Coral could not be accurately determined even perhaps today. What I find especially interesting is that if you go back to 1869, within a hundred years the US would put a man on the moon.
I assume you have read "Black Elk Speaks"? Good place to start if not.
How did barley cover your school lessons??? It’s barely believable.. There, I taught you something that your education system clearly didn’t.
This is awesome man! i lvoe historical education videos, and i love the way you tell them! keep up the good work and thanks!
After you read these books, you'll understand the inevitability of clashing cultures. You'll know it could not have ended any other way. You will realize just how complicated the real story is and you will recognize the biasedness of each culture's story. Read these books, please. Then look carefully and honestly for a hero. Good luck with that. Beautifully done video. Keep em coming.
Why wasn't history class this enlightening all those years ago ? I like the chronological timeline and learned quite a bit here.
Because it would revoke to perpetual victim status of Native Americans if the general public was aware of how much they enjoyed massacring each other
Texas history is required for all 7th grade students in Texas.
When I took it, all I remember was ...
blah blah cortez, blah blah
misdions, blah blah,
the evil mexicans,
blah blah brave settlers from American territories,
blah blah Stephen F Austin,
the Alamo,
blah Santa Ana, blah blah evil evil, blah
cowboys,
Sam houston,
Texas independence,
the almighty Texas republic...
the US, blah blah ,
oil at spindletop, millionaires...
Texas our Texas.
They may have covered native tribes? If they did, they might have done it when I was sick that day.
Well most schools don't want to teach how much of a savages the Indians were back in the day. Because the Indians then would lose their victim status. And the we are all living on stolen land would mean nothing.
I read the Fehrenbach book years ago. It was one of the books that Cormac McCarthy read while doing research for his masterpiece Blood Meridian.
This Guy is Just A Natural At Documentaries.
It's amazing that the Comanche utilized the horses almost exactly the same way as the Huns, and both were alpha warriors.