AMGA Instructor Team Member Patrick Ormond explains three techniques for building an ice anchor. The classic pre-equalized two piece, the quad, and the three piece anchor.
Thanks for the tutorial. In the case of lead climbing, I prefer to use a personal anchor sling such as a Kong Slyde or a common nylon sling to clip myself into the first ice screw that I place so I'm not depending anymore on my belayer. And that method of clove hitching and then uncliping and re adjusting the clove hitch I find it quite unsafe and unpractical in the scenario of a vertical belay station. All that slack that you generate before readjusting your second clove hitch is quite risky. And also quite complicated to do if your belayer is giving you tension. Just my opinion, but I would like to hear a good argument that justifies this video techinque over some other techniques. Cheers!
Generally the argument against using a personal tether at an anchor on multipitch routes is that it's less gear and time efficient than just tying in with the rope, since you always have the rope with you. A PAS or sling is also less dynamic than using the rope, although either of those may allow you to feel safer sooner at the next anchor rather than relying on your belayer. But your point about having all the slack is valid as that could cause a shock-load situation if you fell in that moment, or if your clove hitch is loose it might not hold a fall.
As a disciplined rock and mountain climber who has yet to ice climb, can one explain how ice climbing is using two piece anchors mostly vs 3? is this a gear management? or is ice really that bomber depending I guess?
the Chanel "How Not 2" has a video on that. an ice screw in good ice is bomber ua-cam.com/video/Hy_W10xMrCM/v-deo.html with 13 cm screws the ice around them failed at 16 kn, the longer ones went up to 26 kn before the ice around them pulverized.
Can we use the three piece anchor as a tope rop anchor when no trees are close ? If you clip two opposite locking carabiner on the masterpoint and setup the anchor at the top of a pitch. Thanks
Thanks for the video. Someone mentioned "quickdraws" earlier, but I ask again, why don't you use locking carabiners, or at least mention that "guys now i'm doing this w/ wire gate, but you should use locking biners"
Have you ever tried unclipping a tensioned sling from a wire gate? There's really no need for every point in a belay to have a screwgate on it, it's heavy and unnecessary.
This term is used when the anchor is only approximately equalized. He estimates/anticipates the direction of pull and ties a knot. But if the direction of pull changes, the equalization won't change. This is as opposed to something like a quad, which can change direction of pull within a certain margin
I'm not trying to be a dick, but they're not, they're using wire gate carabiners which I'm assuming is what you mean? Again, I'm not trying to be a smart ass but as far as I know, wire gates aren't really unsafe to use on anchors because they're under constant tension (otherwise risking shock loading of the dyneema etc etc) and they're generally only about 1-2Kn weaker than screw gates I think? Obviously we all know very well that screw gates are 'belt and braces' but correctly orientated and serviceable wire gates on anchors aren't a huge safety issue. Or maybe I'm a fucking idiot and I'm lucky I'm not dead. Either way haha!
Redundancy comes in the fact that there are multiple pieces of pro each with their own wiregate. IMO, the extra weight of the screwgates overshadows the marginal benefits in security--especially since the system is already redundant. Only lockers where there would be a single point of failure (masterpoint and belay shelf). Saves weight and more efficient (not bringing extra lockers w/ limited functional versatility compared to the 'biners you already have on draws)
I don’t mind if you use lockers, but you and your second might mind if the locker gets frozen shut. I guess not a big deal if you are just talking about using them on the screw end, not the rope end. It it is still more awkward than a wire gate. I don’t know of any trad or sport climbers that regularly use lockers on their individual pieces of pro.
Also make sure your screw is flushed, all the way against the ice. Good practice. It shouldn't be hanging out at all.
You have to go to the comment section to find the real experts.
Thanks for the tutorial.
In the case of lead climbing, I prefer to use a personal anchor sling such as a Kong Slyde or a common nylon sling to clip myself into the first ice screw that I place so I'm not depending anymore on my belayer. And that method of clove hitching and then uncliping and re adjusting the clove hitch I find it quite unsafe and unpractical in the scenario of a vertical belay station. All that slack that you generate before readjusting your second clove hitch is quite risky. And also quite complicated to do if your belayer is giving you tension.
Just my opinion, but I would like to hear a good argument that justifies this video techinque over some other techniques.
Cheers!
Generally the argument against using a personal tether at an anchor on multipitch routes is that it's less gear and time efficient than just tying in with the rope, since you always have the rope with you. A PAS or sling is also less dynamic than using the rope, although either of those may allow you to feel safer sooner at the next anchor rather than relying on your belayer. But your point about having all the slack is valid as that could cause a shock-load situation if you fell in that moment, or if your clove hitch is loose it might not hold a fall.
As a disciplined rock and mountain climber who has yet to ice climb, can one explain how ice climbing is using two piece anchors mostly vs 3? is this a gear management? or is ice really that bomber depending I guess?
the Chanel "How Not 2" has a video on that. an ice screw in good ice is bomber ua-cam.com/video/Hy_W10xMrCM/v-deo.html
with 13 cm screws the ice around them failed at 16 kn, the longer ones went up to 26 kn before the ice around them pulverized.
Can we use the three piece anchor as a tope rop anchor when no trees are close ? If you clip two opposite locking carabiner on the masterpoint and setup the anchor at the top of a pitch.
Thanks
Thanks for the video. Someone mentioned "quickdraws" earlier, but I ask again, why don't you use locking carabiners, or at least mention that "guys now i'm doing this w/ wire gate, but you should use locking biners"
Have you ever tried unclipping a tensioned sling from a wire gate? There's really no need for every point in a belay to have a screwgate on it, it's heavy and unnecessary.
Two non lockers reversed and opposed is sufficient.
critical links should be lockers (i.e. your clove, anything involving belay device or 3rd hand) everything else non-locker
Can someone explain to me how the anchor is “pre equalized”? Wouldn’t that insinuate the anchor has already been equalized? 1:47
This term is used when the anchor is only approximately equalized. He estimates/anticipates the direction of pull and ties a knot. But if the direction of pull changes, the equalization won't change. This is as opposed to something like a quad, which can change direction of pull within a certain margin
So AMGA is recommending people use quick draws on their anchors? I hope know one minds if I keep using screw gates. :/
I'm not trying to be a dick, but they're not, they're using wire gate carabiners which I'm assuming is what you mean? Again, I'm not trying to be a smart ass but as far as I know, wire gates aren't really unsafe to use on anchors because they're under constant tension (otherwise risking shock loading of the dyneema etc etc) and they're generally only about 1-2Kn weaker than screw gates I think? Obviously we all know very well that screw gates are 'belt and braces' but correctly orientated and serviceable wire gates on anchors aren't a huge safety issue. Or maybe I'm a fucking idiot and I'm lucky I'm not dead. Either way haha!
We use non lockers for the single points of pro on an anchor and of course lockers for the master.
Ollie Your not a dick.
Redundancy comes in the fact that there are multiple pieces of pro each with their own wiregate. IMO, the extra weight of the screwgates overshadows the marginal benefits in security--especially since the system is already redundant. Only lockers where there would be a single point of failure (masterpoint and belay shelf). Saves weight and more efficient (not bringing extra lockers w/ limited functional versatility compared to the 'biners you already have on draws)
I don’t mind if you use lockers, but you and your second might mind if the locker gets frozen shut. I guess not a big deal if you are just talking about using them on the screw end, not the rope end. It it is still more awkward than a wire gate. I don’t know of any trad or sport climbers that regularly use lockers on their individual pieces of pro.
I would use locking carabiners 100% of the time for both screws.