The SPIRITED AWAY PROBLEM
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- Miyazaki returns after the brutal production of Princess Mononoke, with Spirited Away.
It is his first Digital Movie, but will the same problems plague it as the prior Ghibli?
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All Sources In the Pinned Comments
Ghibli Playlist
• Ghibli Videos
#ghibli #spiritedaway #hayaomiyazaki
00:00 Intro
1:56 New Age Animation
11:50 The Bread Loaf
13:24 The Truth of the Disney Deal
19:00 It all keeps tumbling down... - Фільми й анімація
SOURCES
docs.google.com/document/d/1mlC9vOkSDg7PNz5cQMZo-y63er4jRYwSThkqmvwHus8/edit?usp=sharing
VIDEO
Princess Mononoke trailer
Titanic Japanese poster
Spirited away
Whale hunt
My neighbour the yamadas
Nippon tv making of spirited away
Ghiblies
Ghiblies 2
Princess mononoke
Castle in the sky
Koros big day out
Beauty and the Beast 1946
Spirited Away Wins Best Animated Feature 75th Oscars (2003)
Spirited Away Wins the Golden Bear (2002)
Thank you lasseter san
Hayao Miyazaki at SDCC 2009
Hayao Miyazaki receives an Honorary Award at the 2014 Governors Awards
Lilo & Stitch Trailer
Pokemon 2000
Princess Mononoke in the US
Art of Spirited Away Featurette
The Deer King
Howl’s Moving Castle
MUSIC
Spirited Away (assorted OST)
Milkcan - Fright Flight!!
Shenmue II Music Green Market Qr. (Night)
Legend of Dragoon OST
Ruined Seles
Meru's Theme
Zieg's Theme
The Divine Tree
Thank you for posting the songs used too!!!! You’re the best!!
Hope you read this...are you planing in making one about Laputa castle in the sky? it will be REALLY cool if you do..
Reply
You really want to spread hate against legendary animator hayao miyazaki😂
Your comments about Disney hesitating, before the Oscar win, to embrace Ghibli reminds me of how The Nightmare Before Christmas was supposed to be part of Disney's animated canon, it was originally meant to be released as a Walt Disney Animation Studios film even, but Disney got cold feet at the last moment because they feared the movie could be too weird and scary, so it was released as Touchstone Pictures, no mention of Disney. As the film went on to become the classic it is, Disney erased the original Touchstone logo and intro, and now credits the film as presented by Walt Disney.
yep sounds about right
@@StevemThe Nightmare Before Christmas also reminds me of your video on Hideaki Anno and Shin Godzilla. If I remember well, you said that Hideaki Anno wasn't really that heavily involved in the production, despite even being credited as director (unlike other films where he is simply credited as producer).
The Nightmare Before Christmas is often also called "Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas", that's how it has always been advertised. But Burton's involvement in the actual production was very limited. He wrote the poem that the film is based on, and the overall concept and rough storyline were by him. But when it came to actual production, the people who really worked it every day were the director, Henry Selick, and all the animators. According to Selick, Burton didn't spend more than 10 days in total actually working on the film, Burton was extremely hands-off and busy with other projects. Even the sole credited writer, Caroline Thompson, ultimately had most of her script discarded by Selick and the animators. Selick would say that his job was to make the film feel like as if Tim Burton had made it, which wasn't that hard because, in Selick's own words, his own sensibilities are very similar to Burton's. Selick said that Burton laid the egg, while Selick himself was the main responsible for sitting on it and hatching it. To be clear, Selick never said any of this to criticize Tim Burton, or to deny Tim Burton's importance.
@@matheus5230 yeah annos role was more like scripting, overseeing boards and then all SFX, in a traditional sense Higuchi was the director of the movie,
though of course with any animation work its not the best to even put it on selick alone the entire team would be need 10 fold for stopmotion
@@StevemExactly. It would be unfair to put all credit on Selick, even though he was the director in a traditional sense. It was him and many animators working together, imagining visuals together. Stop-motion is insane to do, perhaps even more so than hand-drawn animation.
@@matheus5230 yeah i messed around with stopmo when i was younger by the time id set it all properly in the school, the lesson was bascially over and had to pack it away lol
If Ghibli can't survive after Miyazaki because they kept going through productions like this, maybe it's just time for them to go. Nothing lasts forever and several of the artists who left Ghibli showed they didn't need to be there to do good work. Though it would be sad other artists wouldn't get to take advantage of the brand recognition.
EDIT: Forgot to include - great channel! Got me to watch Sherlock Hound, which has been fun.
thank you for the comment! it might be easier for them to keep going if they got rid of suzuki tbh he's the one thats been not great about letting the talent spread
Yeah, Ghibli should close up. Miyazaki himself entertained the idea for the first time, various times indeed. Nobody can carry that specific prestige. Besides, Ghibli went from being the most ahead of the curve animation to become a bonified tradition, and japanese animation in itself evolved from it anyways, while still carrying the heritage. There's no real need of other Ghibli, nor Miyazaki, movies anymore. The works will still be rewatchable forever. It's not like anime is in good hands, authorially speaking, like Kon's dead, Anno is virtually retired, and Imaishi's still going strong but of course the reality of anime keeps pushing for exploitative businesses like Studio Mappa and such, but on the other side letting Ghibli become like other companies, even with the promise of authorial works, would be so depressing.
Said that I would love for Ghibli to let Anno make something, but it would surely feel different without the Miyazaki touch. It wouldn't be Ghibli.
@@brutanedda3107plenty of movies have been made at the studio without him already not like they couldn't, problem being they lost many of their talents to different studios when they wanted to direct, perhaps takeshi Honda will take on the reigns he's great
@@brutanedda3107I would point out that, while Ghibli has indeed become an outdated company in the eyes of the animation market, the quality of the animation itself remains very strong, if not, in most cases, way ahead of the rest of the industry. Have you seen "The boy and the Heron" trailer? The opening scene is already the most expressive sequence in Ghibli's history. I do agree with your comment though. Ghibli isn't leading the industry anymore, it's just doing its own thing while the rest of the world continues to spin.
This is literally my favourite film of all time, now I’m looking forward to see how painful it was to make
seems after the extensive detail they went into in the last production this time they kept some of the finer details under wraps but overall it didnt go well
Its not his best film though, it was partly messed up by the staff's input, unlike earlier films,Totoro or Laputa.
@@counterstrike89 Well in my opinion it is, and that’s talking aside from how the production went while making it. I do think that Ghibli really didn’t manage the production of the films greatly, but I’ve heard that they are making the production process better for The Boy And The Heron
@@behindtheanimatorsdesk Yeah, they need an animator with vision, they should use a manga or comic artist, most of the animation directors for Ghibli haven't created any stories or comics on their own, and that's a problem, Miyazaki would draw Nausicaa straight ahead without any planning I believe.
what staff input are you talking about exactly@@counterstrike89
That Miyazaki quote “Filmmaking only brings pain” hits differently now lol
its both sad and funny how each new film during this period is "the film that may completely destroy studio ghibli" 😔
Yeah I feel after these two the studio is at least pretty solid on these films are going to make a lot of money
Animation takes a lot of time and is pretty expensive 😢
Even if Miyazaki basically ended up getting all the credit for Spirited Away in the minds of most American movie lovers, we should probably remember that this was at a time when most people who weren't anime fans just thought of movies like Akira or Ghost in the Shell as coming "from Japan" and likely couldn't name a single person behind them. Actually getting so many people to become aware of a particular studio and director for an anime film at that time was a testament to just how good it was.
Miyazaki us pretty much a swis one man army when it comes to Japanese anime. We should be thankful to him for bringing ghost in the shell and akari to the west😢
You know it’s a good damn piece of art when you ask “who made this?”
Spirited Away is honestly the best Ghibli film they've done in all aspects. It's not my favorite film by them though.
My favorite is Whisper of the Heart. Whisper of the Heart is such a beautiful movie in every way. But Spirited Away is my 2nd favorite Ghibli movie.
Yeah I grew up with Spirited Away. Even though I had seen Mananoke, my pre teen kid self could relate to Chihiro more so then Mananoke. It was much more colorful and not as dark serious in the sense that it was masked with the fantasy and unique characters unlike mananoke that had the dark seriousness present and direct throughout. Mayhaps if i was a teen I could have related to Mananoke more so. Anyways its what got me into animation, "Anime" style rather then cartoony kids shows.
That clip of Lasseter and Miyazaki eating is so funny. They are not having the same conversation.
Translator and all I guess
Knocked it out of the park once again. These videos are proper documentaries and I love learning from them 😎
thank you!!
Well, you can't have two "number ones" on a project. I can completely understand both Miyazaki and Ando. Miyazaki does want a lot of "his touch" in the film, he can't be just an overseer and organizer. While Ando wants to be more than just assistant. Studio wasn't big enough for both of them!
eh thats not it ando was the animation director and his job is to do what he was suppose to do, which is set the characters designs and approach to animation, what happened is miyazaki then through that idea to the ground and said nah we'll do it this way putting ando is an awkward spot because it was also him in part who brought those animators in for the project on the conditions he specified
Well at the end of the day, most of the industry and ghibli staff knew how much Miyazaki wanted to oversee and overstep everything even if they agreed to take a new approach of him just handling timing. Even newer films he was still correcting hundreds of layouts, so that never actually changed much (until now it seems with How do you Live) @@Stevem
@@axlosauroan expectation for someone to break your confidence Is not an excuse, miyazakis corrections were loose directions which were then finished by said animation directors, that is not the same thing as stepping over and fucking up a verbal agreement to get animators on your film
Itts lessthat he cant have his touch, but miyazakis perfectionism is really bad a letting others do theirs and grow themself. Youcan have collabs of hat m just miyazakiis tooperfectionist tolet that happen iguess.
Himretiringmostly , was a good cholce i guess, tolet fresh blood in.
@@Stevem not saying it was an excuse just pointing out that he still kept doing it until recent films bc we was always like that, so I’m guessing he “fucked up” verbal agreements a lot to get the films to the point they ended up at today
There's this old quote, or maybe its actually a proverb: if you like sausages then don't look at how they are made. But that leaves you all comfortable without any inconvenient truths. Thing is I've made sausages and I just love 'em! I guess I can handle some of my favourite films being made by mere faulty humans, or how horrible the crunch was. This stuff needs to be documented too.
if you cant stomach how it's made then you shouldnt be eating it is what i've always thought ahah
"Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." - Otto Von Bismarck, supposedly. I like the idea that the dude that unifies Germany also has a thing for sausages, nice quote.
I agree. It's painful to know just -how- abusive the working conditions could get, but its an important reality to know.
@@fishfingers4548 Bismarck also said he was destined to be a politician, because he was born on April 1st
@@jacobackley502 That man really had a way with words.
Crazy to think how little promotion The Boy and the Heron got with it possibly being the last Ghibli film ever due to no one really being there to take over. It will likely make less than The Wind Rises or Ponyo though. A story for another time.
Toshio Suzuki is one hell of a producer but if there is one person who is responsible for the studio becoming the Miyazaki factory then it is him.
He tried something similar with howl's moving castle after so many people told him it was that great advertising campaign that did it for spirited away, he did little for howl's, how true that is in full I don't know
The boy and the beast isntbad,if hasoda ,who probably is healthier wih as good movies, oh wolf children is great.
@@Stevemfunny you mention that, since my mom introduced me to Ghibli via Howl after learning about Spirited Away's Oscar. Pretty much word of mouth.
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Nice to get a peek at what was going on behind the scenes. Thanks, sir!
thank you!!!!
My number 2 favorite film, and the one that got me into anime cinema. But I am seriously convinced that when Miyazaki passes away, studio ghibli is gonna be the spongebob scene with the panicking brain with the papers flying around. Suzuki absolutely succeeded in making ghibli known as "the Miyazaki studio" to a point that they likely can't find other directors to make films there. They could've had several directors at this point such as Ando or Kosaka, but they don't. And they likely never will as long as Suzuki is there.
Amazing video as usual also, Stevem
Thank you !
I love your editing/cinematographic style. Always a piece of art
thank you for the kind words
Thank you so much for this insight. Informative and swift watching. Appreciated!
thank you for watching!!!
The Um Jammer Lammy Fright Flight cover used at the start of this video was amazing and humorous to listen to on top of Spirited away footage.
lol i thought so too
Miyazaki releases The Wind rises
Miyazaki: I’m retiring
Audiences: 😢😭😢
Miyazaki: I’m hot dropping The Boy and The Heron
Audiences:😲😂😲
Lol
He has a habit of doing such, though at 82 he's not really in the position to be taking on another 6 year project
Miyazaki: *After boy and the heron* This is it guys I’m officially retiring
Audience: 😭😭😭😭😭
*Years later*
Miyazaki: Bish I just fooled you all I’m back 😂
Audience : 💀😮😂😭😊😁
Excellent video as always Stevem, although this one felt a bit more surface level in terms of pre and production details, I can understand it could be due to them not being too public about how the chaos went. Cheers either way
They were not as open about the inner details this time my hands were tied there
My first Ghibli film
Interesting and insightful video, really shows how much grind and perseverance happens behind the scenes. Keep doing what you doing man!
thank you!!!!
Such a great essay about this film. Thank you - I love your videos! Keep up the excellent work!
Thank you! Will do!
this is amazing thank u for making it 😭😭😭
thank you for watching
Fantastic video. The Legend of Dragoon music choice gave me a wave of unexpected nostalgia, so thanks for that!
14:42 i dunno. I think hayo miazaki is very complex, we werent there for every second of his life so filling in the gaps is just guessing. He's definatly the minority here and knows it and owns it. I think theres much more to his reaction, like his personality on stage, his unique perspectice of life, his strong morals and willingness to stick woth them (so iraque, yes), and his japanease culture being foren ans vastly different than americas. Its not that he doesnt know how amerca works or gets camera shy or timid, I think its more like he just despises the very nature of the oscars and publicity and he is well aware of the "fakness" of the oscars. He makes art for a living and has been more humble about it than the average person, he seems very wise and incontrol here at the oscars. Self aware and even probably understanding. He stays transparent wich means he is literally just himself. He's not putting on a show and he downst wanna be there but neither does he make a scene or throw a fit. He's in a forgen country and came to pick up a golden statue that he might not even take too much pride in. I dont see it in his personality to be stoked about an oscar, his life is centered around his art and very much his personal life and not the capitalits mass media strive to fame life style. He's truly a conplex character, it shows in his art. I dont think he's bull shitting anyone here.
And it has nothing to do with "japans anti war stance" and more to do with miazakis. Look at his films, princesse mononoke, howls moving castle and wind rises. He's been anti war and pro nature and a very spirituality driven man. Im a firm believer, if a man puts years of work to make a peice of art and doesnt expect much, if anything in return, theyre art is a pure projection of their mindset, uncontious subcontious or uncontious. Wichever one it is, its a reflection of that
Yeah now you're just contradicting his own answer, where he said it was his anti war stance and the bigger message of him being against awards, which is fair but you cant come to the states brag about the reasons you didnt take the award to then show up several years later for the same award. However complex the man is playing arm chair psychologist with him because we've seen some films he's made with a couple hundred other people isnt giving us insight.
@@Stevemok i missed the part about him coming back for the award. I only focused on him not taking the one award. And yeah, i did play arm chair psychologist, FAIR POINT xD. Ill take the L u_u
But even though he made the films with several hundereds of people, he's the visionist. I mean several hundreds worked on it, how many worked in the story telling? Not several hundered. He was the head of that, several hundered worked on the animation because thats the labor aspect of animation work. Im sure Miazaki was open to bouncing ideas off of one another and even prefered ideas over his own, he probably lerned alot from his employees. But he definatly was the vision and the conductor of the this train. I do believe his work reflects him more than anyone else on that team of writers.
And by "japans anti war stance" i was just being nitpicky. I ment it was his war stance, i dont believe japan has much influence on this man at his age and how much he's probably expirienced in life.
@@cronaman3196 well technically every animator is the literal visualiser of the boards so theyre all storytellers that's the point, miyazaki wouldnt have animated like hashimoro, tanaka or shinya ohira that's why they are there. And miyazaki while stern will ask for insight from people he trusts as its not uncommon for him to do what they say like changing the ending of both Mononoke and Nausicaa
@@StevemI'm thinking of Anno's comments about the Nausicaa manga being 100% Miyazaki, while in animation you always need to have many people contributing, it can't be helped. But, and now it's me talking, a huge group of people bouncing off each other is also great. In Brad Bird's commentaries, he is always talking about the contributions of everyone, which person had which idea, and how thankful he is.
@@matheus5230 yeah its more of a preference thing, like a large scale commercial project will come with pros and cons, like i do love the nausciaa manga but i gotta say to see the toxic jungle in colour with that music hits different
The Mythologizing of Miyazaki is crazy.
for real
Its inspiring
He is undoubtedly a legendary artist in the medium of animation, and he exercises a level of control in his films that is not common in feature-length animation, at least not among animators and directors (the opposite of the classic Disney model, it would be disingenuous to call even Walt Disney THE "auteur" in those classic films).. That said, no one is perfect, and animation always needs the collaboration of many people. And Miyazaki is a complex individual: not a bad person, not a saint. He is human. But learning to understand the differences between the untouchable myth and the flawed human can be very hard, and this goes far beyond Miyazaki, it applies to all areas (Ayrton Senna, legendary F1 driver and who I have a lot of respect and admiration for, is mythologized by some people as if he was a God in all aspects you can think of, specially after his tragic accident death on 1994 in race).
In american animation, for example, I'm thinking about how the many legendary animators behind the Looney Tunes, directors who were "auteurs" such as Chuck Jones, Tex Avery, Bob Clampett, Friz Freleng, Frank Tashlin, and so on, were often very unreliable in their stories. Either due to memory or wanting to be the one to receive the most credit for the Looney Tunes as the status of these cartoons grew as decades passed, having a lasting cultural and artistic value way beyond what any of the people behind these cartoons expected. Jones and Clampett in particular hated each other, tried to downplay each other, and had infamous reputations of arrogance and trying to take credit of everything. Mel Blanc, the legendary voice actor for the vast majority of characters in Looney Tunes cartoons, wasn't the most reliable person in the world, I'm not saying he was bad.
Adding one more thing to my previous comment here: Miyazaki has such an insane level of control at Ghibli that it suffocates new artists trying to be their own selves, hence why the studio has good chances of dying altogether when Miyazaki dies. New artists have to go somewhere else to fully express themselves.
The death of Walt Disney was an insane blow that can't be underestimated, and the Disney animation studio almost ended in the mid-1980s. Walt was a shadow over everyone. But even then, Walt hadn't been too closely involved with Disney's animated features ever since the post-Golden Age era, after Bambi. Walt was distracted with a lot of other endeavors taking his time. And while the animators didn't like how absent Walt had become, it perhaps gave the studio a higher chance of being able to survive beyond his death. But who knows?
@@matheus5230 youre missing the point a little its not new artists you have to worry about at with ghibli they learn and are given good fundermentals, its the higher up artists like kitaro kosaka, sunao katabuchi and masashi ando ect who are all super talented and end up making their debuts at studio that were not ghibli or leaving completely, this is also a management issue as we will see next time
Another absolutely fantastically produced ghibli video. I really look forwards to watching these, I always feel like you give a really unique look into the studio and directors. Despite being a massive ghibli nerd I had not even heard about ando before !
Thanks! really appreciate your effort!
thank you!
Just discovered your channel. Keep up the great work!!
Thank you! Will do!
This became my favorite UA-cam channel really fast
thats a very nice thing to say hope you enjoy the next one
Excellent video. Can't wait for the next!
Coming soon!
Awesome video, Steve!
thank you!!!
It's been interesting getting to here about the production of these films. Good stuff dude!
More to come!
Great video!
Thanks for the S tier content once again. Always an interesting watch!
Glad you enjoyed!
For as much as I always dream of making a film that feels like one of Miyazaki’s and Studio Ghibli’s, I would hate to treat my staff the same way as Miyazaki. Perhaps I want the magical themes and visual splendor of his work without the-quite frankly-cruelty of Ghibli’s production line. Is that possible? Maybe not, but if I have to choose between making an amazing film and treating the people working on that film well, I hope to choose the latter always.
Id say it's possible if you finish your storyboard first and be more realistic about the schedule
Hard to say.
Directors, chefs, conductors, anyone that leads significant projects where they have to guide others to reach the vision within their brains are always very wont to ride those workers hard.
There aren't many great artistic leaders that aren't also known to be slave drivers that demand the world from their workers and make sure they get it.
There are always exceptions. But it isn't like the anime industry outside of Miyazaki is known for its easy work and favorable conditions.
There aren't many important fields of labor that are.
@@tristanc3873generally it's better to think long term nothing wrong with working hard but without the proper breaks and time off you'll burnout staff and lose them for longer than you would prior, the issue here is more the money incentive to go faster,
People die, Art stays.
Excellent video, thank you.
Glad you liked it!
Fantastic work as always/
thank you!!!
Great video, thanks!!!
Glad you liked it!
wonderfull as always
appreciate it !
another great vid
Glad you enjoyed it
You bring a new face to this material. Keep posting.
Thank you!
Great video as usual but one note: when Miyazaki won the Oscar, it was a surprise for the people in the West who didn't know anime, maybe, but Miyazaki was already a powehouse in Japan. Totoro was known by every person in Japan, not only by the university students who were reading Nausicaa's manga on Animage, literally everybody knew Totoro in Japan, 1988.
I know miyazaki is very well known in Japan I made many videos on the subject and talk about his Japanese success especially post mononoke in the prior video . Totoro failed at the cinema but over home release and Nippon tv rebroadcasts every year it became a bigger success and the logo of the company, but that didn't happen in its first year. When talking internationally it is quite different.
@@Stevem Yes, I've seen all your content and I truly admire it, but I think you shifted the perspective a bit too much in that passage.
@@andreap2320 well im thinking of the mononoke to spirited away to howl videos kinda like a trilogy so i dont want to repeat too much from the prior video, like to be clear the oscar stuff is irrelevant in japan im only talking internationally (sorry which passage are we talking about specifically anyway)
@@StevemNot to mention that Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away won Best Picture awards from Kinema Junpo, the oldest and most prestigious cinema magazine in Japan's history. They are a lot more open to give the biggest prize to animation than the Academy Awards ever were (an animated film never won Best Picture).
Love that Legend of Dragoon music btw! Nice touch!
yeah i wanted something with that vibe
Lovely vid❤
thank you!
Thank you for unlocking the deeply buried memory of my love for Umjammer Lammy’s music 🎶
it slaps
Bro love your stuff
thank you!
great vid as always
how did you get Ghibli to stop nuking your vids?
I dont know tbh I've tried to get these videos to get caught, as to deal with any copyright stuff before release, but currently they havent been getting picked up.
Which might be because the percentage of movie footage is much lower so they dont catch on as fast
I’m just watching it for the 50th time approx , I am forever in love with Spirited Away ! ❤
always fascinating that such warm and lovely characters are created under such cruel circumstances. shows that some people know how to push buttons and you don´t find the artist real personality in it
Love the analysis and vid.
Also what song plays at the end of the intro? Ita stuck in my head! Lol
all the songs are in the pinned comment in the read more section that one is from jammy lammy
@@Stevemamazing, thank you so much!
Love the light these videos show in the industry of animation. I wonder how these practices in for say Spirited Away compares to todays productions. How have things changed etc...
Also do you know any source showing the difference between anime Film productions and anime tv series productions?
Again love what you do!
how do you live the latest ghibli film is reported to have no crunch,
there wouldnt be one source on the difference because like movie production tv production can vary wildly, but the main points to take are spirited away might have had a 20 month production, where youll be lucky as a tv production goes to get more than a several weeks to a month per ep
Just discovered your channel. I look forward to all your rabbit holes of anime. I’m watching ghost in the shell today. It’s free on UA-cam 🎉
I would reallly enjoy a channel like yours doing a deepdive into Jin Roh
When I heard the song from Um Jammer Lammy, I smashed the Subscribe button so hard, I shattered every bone in my body. I hope you appreciate this sacrifice.
I love your videos.
Thank you!
Hey Stevem, great video. Will you be going to the London Film Festival to watch the new one?
I'm trying to get a press pass without one it might be too costly with travel
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ONE YYYYIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
its hereeeeee
I like all animation from Ghibli. Expertly done and superbly enjoyable
Drinking game: Take a shot every time hair is touched.
Don't die
The Legend of Dragoon tracks in the background made my day.
Great ost
Wonder when the Howl's moving castle will come out. Great video!
Do you know about the crunches of Spider-Man Across The Spider-Verse? Supposedly, producer and writer Phil Lord was the main figure to blame due to being very indecisive, and changing his mind about scenes after many months of work on them. Sounds similar to what you once said about Takahata's indecisiveness.
honestly spiderman sounds worse, like my jaw dropped when i heard what he made them do, like it's one thing to be difficult about how to correct a shot it's another to make someone do the entire shot painted and finished and then tell them to scrap it
@@StevemYes, that's exactly what happened. From the reports, it seems that Phil Lord would override even the directors, and ask for entire scenes to be redone from scratch after they had already been finished. His demands for many last-minute changes dragged the production and generated insane crush. In animation, you really have to try as hard as possible to do as many of your edits in the early phase, that's what storyboards are for.
Even seeing all work go down the drill, even when you don't have to do it again, can be already devastating. In the making of Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs, Walt Disney decided to cut a whole sequence of the dwarves eating soup for pacing reasons. The sequence had already been finished, Ward Kimball had been working hard on it for almost a year and a half. He was so devastated to see it deleted that he wanted to quit the studio altogether, but Walt convinced him to stay by giving him the role of animator for Jiminy Cricket in Pinocchio if I'm mistaken.
So, I can only imagine how even more devastating it would be to have to redo your work as well.
@@matheus5230well post snow white the unionization drive started I don't recall if it's after that or dumbo Disney promised bonuses on one of those too and failed to deliver them, it's insanely shitty management to cut a finished scene you should have already timed the film by that point
council of geeks yt channeldid a good video on spiderverse 2.
It seemed they used n insane a proachwwhere they ordered scened, before knowing if they didnt change their mind later. and when done, nah we chage that . Whih is insane in an aniated movie witha lotof work.
Notthat you sketh itout and then lookovver and give it a go, if youare that indecisive. Thats why sketches exist.
or play itoutin other ways, before fully animating it. If changing that is part of your creaive process, dontoverworkartists for scenes youmightnever use.... . sketches doexist,ordr them.or voce actin sessions,nozhard animation. (notthat voiceacting is childs play, butless work exhausting)
Anyways council of geeks intothe spiderverse yt video covers it well
@@StevemIf I'm not mistaken, Fleischer Studios had to join the union in the late-30s, and then Disney had to join it in 1941 after a strike that changed the studio forever. While Disney offered the best working conditions in the industry is comparison to the other studios, the inequality had only grown. When Disney moved to Burbank in 1940, the top animators had all sorts of privileges, while the animators way down in the hierarchy were earning enough barely enough to eat. This destroyed any feeling of community and family that the studio used to have in the 1930s. It all boiled over when Walt made a speech saying "if you're not progressing as you should, do something about it". Well, joining an union was doing something about it.
When it comes to Snow White specifically, the fact that it was the first american feature-length animated film ever, and a lot had to be figured out the hard way, I think it has a better excuse than any modern production.
Ha! I was wondering if you'll do Howl. And you even confirmed my feeling: the studio for one reason or another, collapsed with that.
there were issues, which lead to the production unable to hit deadline and having to push back the release which is the only time that happens with a miyazaki movie to my recollection,
a lot comes from unrealistic deadlines too, just not feasible at all.
Dude I love Legend of Dragoon!
I recognized the Divine Tree theme immediately. Then you played Ruined Seles, and I could hear the Great Commander's Lines over the notes. Not to mention Zeig's Theme and Meru's Theme. You're over here talking about Miyazaki and his legendary films, meanwhile I'm reliving my entire childhood.
it's a good ost
Was any Ghibli movie not a nightmare for the staff?
Was basically any animated movie not a nightmare for the staff? 😭
@@bibroskoProbably The Iron Giant.
the latest one is reported to have no crunch but we dont know too much about how that went yet
Another certified STEVEM classic!
thank you!
Interesting, curious if Miyazaki wasnt at the helm if they'd be more international exposure of his films. Seems like the Yanks went out their way to open the door for more cooperative work, but it wasnt of interest to Miyazaki. Can't say I blame him though, the Yanks seeing the colour green on the backs of other people's hard work by the sounds of it.
they never made what they wanted it seemed, ghibli us box office never broke past 19 million
Ikinda wish he let the nxtmovie at least be theirs :(
I dunno, Studio Ghibli has been closed in some capacity since 2014, it seems unlikely that the studio resurrect itself from the grave. The old days of big budget anime from Ghibli feels over... still, there's always Studio 4c I suppose @@marocat4749
Literally just how business works, but go off I guess.
Mononoke was my favorite film by Gibli, and it was obvious SA took them in a different direction, dealing more with emotionally focused characters and their internal struggles without as much outer action, except where absolutety necessary.
It's fine, but it never felt as good for me, but it worked well for mass attraction.
Personally, I find that a lot of films from Spirited Away forward meander a little bit; like the "romance" between the protagonist and the boy just doesn't feel right.
The rest of his films since seem to struggle with what the actual focus of the film and the protagonists are, but as far as animation quality, it's all still top notch, even if I find myself struggling to pay attention sometimes; this problem was not there with Mononoke and films before Spirited Away, in my opinion.
11:06 it's Crazy how much work this one studio does. You see this studio a lot in the Credits of animes (some of them)
they have a contract with Madhouse which how they got into the industry
@@Stevem thanks. I think it's a good idea to make a video about madhouse (rise and fall) or What masao maruyama wanted the Studio to become and What the Studio does nowdays
@@user-og6pb6dd5p ive done two madhouse months (went through every movie theyd released for the most part) so ive basically covered all that stuff as well as in the redline video
@@Stevem thanks. Your videos are great
How do you do to your hair? looks great
i cut it myself, i dont do a lot of crazy stuff with it, shampoo bars haha
Would be interesting to see that missing 20 minutes in maybe an extended version or something.
Id like to see the boards though it's suppose to mainly them moving out
Surprisingly good video about Studio Ghibli
Thank you!
Dude you are crazy with your research and production! Great work, don’t stop!
I appreciate that!
7:25 Haven't seen the Yuno shirt for a while :)
she's about
That Legend of Dragoon music lol. My dude.
LETS GOOOOO!!!
🎉
The guy who starts talking at 20:00 in the green shirt is a voice actor from a ton of old cartoons and stuff. He was even in Tak and the power of Juju i believe. I recognize his voice anywhere!
Pressure creates diamonds. Miyazaki is that pressure. Interesting video.
Diamonds are worthless unless pitched as not by certain companies
At least some people get it. Thank you for existing.
I specifically appreciate you for focusing on films in the anime space, Stevem., They've never been as popular as shows it seems, and I've always found that disappointing. Thanks for all you do man
im not against covering shows its more of a pain though ahahah, i dont know if theyre more popular either depends on the show i guess
I find anime movies to be the perfect middle ground for me. I don't often have the time to invest in an entire series, but I can spare a few hours for a marvelous story.
Hope you read this...are planing in making one about Laputa castle in the sky? it will be REALLY cool if you do..
I might do one day there's an important Convo to have about the first ghibli movie and how marketing has changed the story around it
This is very informative and well made. Miyasaki doesnt shy away to tell people about his bad traits, so I already suspected that the studio runs like that. Thank you for putting the other animators on the spotlight. This way I really recognized the unique style behind those animation sequences. I always try to tell people that the movies are made by a hardworking team, when they praise only miyasaki for them- Even though I enjoy Miyasakis vison and his way of storytelling, It takes a lot more than one man for such a wonderful movie.
I disagree with you on the marketing though. Even though the movie has themes of greed, I think it's okay to market it so everyone will know when it comes out. I don't feel like it conflicts necessary with the message. Especially when the main theme is a different one. Anti Capitalist Media can't always survive on word of mouth. So sadly marketing is an important part of spreading the word.
But I agree that it was very overblown with the nestle deals and similar stuff.
well its funny you mention about the marketing because allegedly suzuki was so tired of people talking about the marketing that he didnt do basically any prep for the next movie or so he says there was a trailer etc
@@Stevem yea I heard about that too! (You mean the boy and the heron ,right?) Very bold move to rely on the Ghibli brand alone
howls moving castle actually but they are doing that for the boy and the heron to a more extreme amount !@@ViviButter
Ah yes, you were teasing about it in the video, I was wondering back then why the hype wasnt as big as spirited away before it came out. So I'm eager to find out more. @@Stevem
17:03 is this music from a Pokémon game?
Hello STEVEM, I do notice there are some stutters when I slow down to 0.75x to listen to important details. Could you make the audio smoother when being slowed down? It's okay if there's no quick fix, I do not know how to edit video so it's up to you. You have a charming voice btw.
Also English is my second language, so if a sentence ends with a dot, could you pause for like 0.5 or 1 second. It takes a lot of processing for me to understand a long sentence that is a combination of 6 subtitle lines.
There's no way to smooth audio when slowed down I'm afraid, the video is fully captioned
What's the anime @7:00 ?
Spirited away...
wtf was that awesome dance animation by shinya ohira, I can't find it anywhere
Charles Schultz was the same about Peanuts. Beautiful Effort worth the work. 😍 🌈
First of all, excellent editing work and presentation of research. There's a lot of information in this video I've never heard of before, and now I feel a little closer to this special movie.
But I have mixed feelings about some of your main points. Especially after reading through people's comments (which rare for YT are some really interesting conversations, good job everyone) I'm wondering if you're dismissing the legitimacy of auteur theory just a little too much. I mean, he wrote the movie. Spirited Away didn't have a story table with eight credited screenwriters like most Western animation. At least one component of why the movie resonates with people is because of the dialogue, themes, and individual scene composition that are the result of Miyazaki drafting storyboards by himself. Yes, there are some things he had jack shit to do with, which I think you illustrate well. It's tempting to say the editorial and animation process were 100% a collaborative effort and call it a day, but he's still the origin, none of it would have happened without him. A lot of ex-Ghibli animators turned directors kind of have a soulless feel to the stories in their solo movies regardless of animation quality, including Ando's Deer King which you show a clip of. I think this argument is separate from Miyazaki being a bullish, overbearing boss. I believe he was toxic to work for, but that shouldn't be an excuse to dismiss him being an auteur. Is it just how marketing hypes him up? 99% of regular people watching Spirited Away don't care about the production specifics, just us animation nerds.
Also, a different tangent, and sorry for rambling, me spending several years in a coding "crunch culture" workplace has given me a new perspective on situations like this. It might be a hard truth, but some aspects of tight, endless overtime working conditions may craft the identity of the film. Yes, abusive conditions and burnout. I get it. But it's just a fact that this atmosphere means that animators are spending more time working with each other, knowing each other's nuances, and getting to be on the same wavelength. In a way some people can't relate, when you're all in the trenches together you just buckle down and find personal fulfillment in knocking out milestones. It's the only way to get through it and keep your sanity. Not a defense, just an observation from my own experience. Pixar operated the same way in the 90s/2000s and resulted in some pretty iconic synergy that can't be felt today. I read an article about Toy Story 2's production where an employee felt nostalgic about these sleepless nights a reporter would label evil. Sorry if this seems like the ramblings of someone who's been brainwashed. Have I become a monster? Haha.
Autuer theory is not taken serious within the broader film historian community and was critiqued strongly at the time , this isn't a film it's an animated project this is not the area which auteurism was created for, people take auteurism as default because it's a perfect marketing tool, to act as though your experience in a different field being crunched is insight into how this film was made is overstepping. The finer work would have been outsourced towards the end as stated in their own production diary if it wasn't for Dr movie, spirited away would not have finished on time. The crews perspective on the crunch in that diary is it was awful and we never want that to happen again which is echoed throughout the entire production on the next movie can't let it turn into another spirited away.
And the team already have a strong connection some of them have been working together for decades! They don't need to be brutalized to feel that.
WHOOOO LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOO!!!
GOOOOOOO!!!
1:19 what's the song playing?
List of songs in the pinned comment think thats the one from jammy lammy
Sorry, didnt notice the pinned has the songs listed
Will you cover Ghost in the Shell: Innocence? The half-Ghibli movie where production seems to be split equally between IG and Ghibli? The writing and direction were of course all Oshii, with material from exactly 2 manga chapters being used. One of the least mainstream consumable anime films ever. Even the title is just Innocence in Japan to maximize the confusion.
Yeah I will at some point there's about 7 ghibli esc animators in key animation and a couple in-betweeners, as well as the sfx/ photography department of ghibli working on it. There seems to be some interesting stories to tell here
Am I hearing Legend of Dragoon music in the background, or an I wrong?
Unrelated but im digging this Um Jammer Lammy opener 😎
same
yeah it slaps
I know this isn’t very much of a hot take and while I was quite young when Chicken little came out I didn’t think of it then but in the last few years especially I began to realize and notice that there was no reason for the way Chicken little turned out animation wise because granted it was a contractual relationship with PIXAR at the time but they got way too much credit with Toy Story that’s why even if Chicken Little was their actual first CG I’m not letting it off the hook so easily. Also I hope realize that the reason John Lasseter was let go was mostly due to a stupid movement because in his instance it didn’t seem like they said really anything to incriminate him. Now I’m not saying that the movement was a complete lost cause but it shows how much people are willing to turn even if there was no merit to the points in question. I think we both know what movement I’m referring to.
19:09 - u r very good at it anyway.
I am so very excited for the Howl's video. I really appreciate this deconstruction of Miyazaki the Auteur, and the ways you've reevaluated your old work to be more inclusive of the whole staff at Ghibli. In some ways, I relate to how an idea can get away from you when telling a story for sure, but I also wonder how I would react if I had a team of staff beneath me as well. I cannot imagine the years of life that must get stripped away from you when crunching that hard. The last time I got anywhere close to that, I gave myself a pretty permanent RSI, so I've always had to be careful with how I approach my own projects.
Frustrating and fantastic. Seems like we can't escape the pain that comes with creating beautiful art sometimes.
Yeah I fucked up my wrist a couple years ago, when I was animating and pushing past injury, it was not worth it at all.
Luckily there's no nerve damage, but also they told there's nothing they can do for it outside physio, but it took about 3 years before they told me that and I'm still waiting on that.
@@Stevem yeah thankfully I myself have not gotten nerve damage either, but it's been several years of on/off physio for me and it reallt comes and goes. I'm hoping I can work up enough muscle in the coming year to stabilize my joints so I can get back to more consistent work. Best of luck to you man. I'm so glad you're still able to be out here making stuff. I hope I can start doing stuff as well, you're a huge inspiration.
@@NeoNovastargood luck with it, I had to just work through the pain a lot unfortunately and find where my limits were on drawing
Is that legend of dragoon music?
Can some
Asks if we can get part
To of
Spirit away, they left me curious at the end I wanna see what happened I want to see if they fall in love n live tg
Whats this? A video essayist who is critical of Miyazaki? As in someone who analyzes the social dialectic of worker and manager in the japanese animation industry? Complete with sources? 🤯
The algorithm awarded me juicely. I just uhm, ‘acquired’ all Ghibli films. I was going to make a video essay series on all myself, so this is perfect. 💚
Subscribed! Keep doing what you are doing!