Really? A mysterious chosen one and his rangers from the north defending the realm against some vague evil? Sounds suspiciously familiar to a certain son of Arathorn
Alyn Oakenfist was a Velaryon bastard, and he went on to become the admiral of the royal fleet and the Lord of Driftmark, so Jon could have done pretty well, especially if Robert had lived and Ned continued to serve as hand of the king.
@@ohthreefiftyone Also, assuming R+L=J, as most people do, it’s not so much the fact because he’s a bastard that he ends up at the wall, it’s because of who his father was.
@@thomascrawley5972 Yeah. The fact that Robb was even willing to make him his heir in the books just before he went to the Red Wedding makes me think if he fought with his brother and they both lived he would be legitimized and possibly given lands and a keep somewhere in the North
@@spearshake4771 No doubt, since Robb was King he was not obligeted anymore to follow the rules about the Night's Watch and would certainly give Jon the family name and lands to hold in his northern kingdom, if Jon so wished.
Bloodraven was bastard of king Aegon IV, and he was Hand of the King for two kings, and Lord Commander of The Night Watch. And he end as creepy tree wizard.
I heard he had either a cameo or a role in the pilot episode that was shot with different actors and eventually scrapped. When they shot episode 1 for good he didnt want to be in it.
People are not equal at the wall Nobles are privileged and will be put in position of command much faster than low born The very first scene of the show is about that issue specifically
@@garvwadhwaney306 That's not what the old bear Joer Mormont says, he specifically says that he did to curry favor with his father, and gave him command of the ranging party while he had only 6 months of experience againts Gared's 50 years and Will's 3 years the quote is from Tyrion III AGOT "The Royce boy was green as summer grass, yet he insisted on the honor of his own command, saying it was his due as a knight. I did not wish to offend his lord father, so I yielded. I sent him out with two men I deemed as good as any in the Watch. More fool I."
They’re so right about Jon Snow being everyone’s favorite hero. I feel so much empathy for him having a struggling childhood being neglected by Catelyn but Ned and his brother showed him love at least. But being a bastard was never easy for him. Everytime they spit on him I just am like MAN LEAVE HIM THE FUCK ALONE!
@@putinsneighbor8351 Hey if it wasn’t for them Jon Snow would never be born. Plus he can have a promising future compared to the one he had in the show.
In the books characters often refer to members of the Night’s Watch as ‘Black Brothers’, which makes me think of the Benedictine and Cistercian orders. GRRM was also inspired by The Book of the New Sun, which contains a guild of monastic torturers.
The Wall is really cool in the books. When the wildings are going over the first time, three parties make the initial descent and there’s a point three fourths of the way up where Jon can’t see the climbers anymore because the wall is too thin near the top and the sunlight is shining through. A massive chunk the size of a house falls off and even broken apart against the ground people duck and dive out of the way because chunks the size of fists blow past them. The Wall doesn’t have to even be at peak form to be intimidating and formidable.
The Nights watch always remembers me of the Teutonic order A German crusader order who fought in the Baltic area, in Russia and in Lithuania and Hungary, ( coat of arms was a black cross on white ground with the German eagle in the middle ) only difference to the Templar’s is that the Teutonic Knights didn’t have to cut their hair, and they could have children.
Well, the “Great Wall” was less of a single contiguous brick wall as often imagined, and more a series of defense in depth walls, military outposts, forts and roaming border patrols along favorable terrain, which the goal of funneling northern invaders into chokepoints. The Great Wall of China was intended ironically as a strategic offensive into the Mongol Steppe, providing supply havens and safe redoubts for expeditions north, whereas the Wall in GoT is meant as a quarantine, a defensive structure against Wildlings and White Walkers. The Wall is meant as a singular defensive structure. From what I can tell, the Night’s Watch is mainly supposed to act as the first response to any attack from the North, intended to hold out until reinforcements could arrive. I know this is a weird rant, but I find military structures and the doctrines that inspire their creation really fascinating, just wanted to comment.
@@phantomkryptid2549 May be the Mongols are more like the dothraki. Anyway Im still waiting for the release of the winds of winter. The sooner the better.
I remember 2 years ago when the show disappointed me and I started to wait for the books. I later completely forgot about the books until recently and was hyped to get Winds Of Winter just to realize he hasn’t finished it yet...
I always look at the Night's Watch as a Gulag with some democracy sprinkled in or a severely underfunded Corrections facility especially when it comes to Jon and his friends it's like juvie you got delinquents and cliques harsh Veteran inmates except everyone serves for life and swears off women and end up spending the rest of their lives endless cold and misery
I wonder if the grey ward ends in dragon age are based on the nights watch. Both are extremely similar. An order that takes anyone. It does not discriminate to race and takes criminals. They were formed to defeat a greater otherworldly evil and as soon as you swear your vows you’re washed from your past life
I believe Grey Warden is inspired from The Fellowship of The Ring (LOTR). Although it could also be argued that The Templars in DA like inspired from Night Watch (also inspired from Knight Templars). Meanwhile we also got Witchers Order that also have similarities with Grey Warden especially when it comes to the dark initiation stuffs. The Witcher books actually older than ASOIAF, while The Witcher 1 came out before DAO 2 years early. So yeah, there is no solid proof aside from DA world itself definitely inspired from LOTR & D&D Baldur's Gate.
There were no Scots north of the wall. They were Picts. Scots came to Scotland later, from Ireland, although lowland Scots were more likely Angles from Northumbria, which is why lowland Scots have long spoken a form of English, rather than the Gaelic of the highlanders.
If I know anything about the Scots, they'd be proud as fuck to be compared to the Wildlings. Rugged, independent survivalists and warriors who were looked down upon, but could be every bit as honourable as any knight
Listening to this history gives me a new perspective on the Pink Letter. Whoever wrote it threatened a military order; therefore as Lord Commander of said order Jon was well within his rights to respond by force in defense of his troops. Granted that's not why Jon wanted to march on the Boltons; but technically he didn't violate his vows by attempting to leave. I say it all to say in order to circumvent the desertion issue, I suspect the author might've taken deliberate care to word the letter in such a way as to threaten the entire Night's Watch as opposed to just Jon. That way he could get down to Winterfell without getting himself killed.
The Nights Watch is sworn to take no part in matters of the realm. According to the rules John should have just given Ramsey what he wanted assuming of course that he was the author of the letter which is doubtful. The Nights Watch is only a military order when it comes to defending the realm they are definitely not allowed to wage war against lords in Westeros even if severely provoked!
Because Westeros is loosely based off the geography and history of England. Scotland for the most part is colder because it’s in the (far) north. Historically Scottish tribes were pretty fierce and wild and would not bend(the knee) to the will of the Roman Empire so they built a giant wall cutting off the wild north and anyone on the wrong side when the wall went up from the rest of civilisation. There are obviously huge comparisons to the Great Wall but overall Westeros is just fantasy England. The red wedding is based off our history. The war of the roses involved the York’s(starks) and the lancasters(lannisters) ( also the fact that two separate factions during that time in essence had a rose as their coat of arms(house Sigil) it’s just crazy how much stuff is a dramatic retelling on English history. The north rebelling against the crown etc haha there’s so much. Scotland even has a place called ‘isle of arran’ ( vale of Arryn much ) honestly there so much and it’s so interesting dude but it’s like 2am and I’m ranting. Apologies x
Objection on saying Jerusalem is a Christian land Because if you go back to the omari's agreement It was between Muslims and Christians At that time it was a Christian land but according to that agreement it was given to Muslims by the Christians on conditions that Muslims prevent jew forces from it . So Muslims did but we didn't prevent people who come for pray or praying places etc All of Palestine is a Muslim country
"All brothers are equal and your past doesn't matter" isclearly not true: high born are clearly favored for command roles regardless of skills or experience.
I don't think Scots can be all that offended by comparing our people to wildlings. Scots were brutal and tribalistic in all the senses of the world and in keeping with all the negative connotations it possesses. In many ways backwards, resistant to culture, perpetually poor for centuries and the history is filled with savage and violent acts between families, clans and regions. I was taught the entire Michie family name comes from an act of murder. The story is told that Michael McDonald intended to overthrow the heads of the clan, committed murder, but then none of those who said they'd follow him did, and he fled, taking his family name as his family name: Michie, diminutive form of his first name, Michael. It wasn't until the time of David Hume in the 1700s when he and a few other truly great Scottish thinkers encouraged their fellow Scots to adopt and truly embrace the English language, so as to be connected to the wider world, to all of England's discoveries and accomplishments, to the parts of the world touched by the empire, and everything that had been written from far afield in the English language. By the end of the century some of the leading minds in philosophy, science, language and engineering were Scots. It's proof that a people can be uplifted by equipping them with the knowledge of those who are thriving, and evolution by embracing a different way.
3 роки тому+1
Sounds like some well written English history. You know that there were no Scots north of Hadrian's wall, and that Scots as a culture was invented by the mixing of Anglo and Pictish cultures on the border? I'm sure that your clan had it's history written too. I'm from Oxford.
This was one of the vows of the Knights Hospitaller. The traditional vows of a holy order were poverty, chastity and obedience, the Hospitaller added a fourth, to be serf and slave to their lords the sick. Remember this was a devoutly religious, monastic Order. They were monks who helped the poor and sickly and fought wars to protect and hold the holy lands of Jerusalem against the heathens, to them the Jews and Muslims especially. The whole point is absolute commitment to the service of God and the forsaking of all else. Hence a vow of poverty, to give up worldly desires for riches and wealth and luxury.
The only difference is that the real monk warriors were not past criminals given way to repent, major difference. They were mostly nobles who chose the religious path, although rich many times and imbued with the social values of the time they were not scum like the common criminals among the Night's Watch. Very often Martin mixes real historical backgrounds with his hippie like and post modern approaches which have nothing in common with the Middle Ages. Middle Ages societies were not egalitarian and criminals would be quickly executed.
I love how George's inspirations are grounded in history.
The Ice Wall and the Night's Watch are one of the most distinctly unique parts of George's books.
Really?
A mysterious chosen one and his rangers from the north defending the realm against some vague evil?
Sounds suspiciously familiar to a certain son of Arathorn
The Codex Alera fantasy series has an ice wall in the north as well
@@tylerfletcher1982 He's not a chosen one. Your argument failed before it ever started.
Codex Alera came out decades after ASOIAF
@@flesruoYkcuFoGuoYprince that was promised?
This George guy knows a lot about Westeros. He should be a Maester or something.
He certainly looks like one.
Or just bring back Mance Rayder
He should write a book about it or something.
Stolen joke.
Heard he was a writer on the TV show… but nobody listened to his ideas.
Bastards could also be captains of household guard and battle commanders probably so Jon could have fought beside Robb as his general hypothetically
Alyn Oakenfist was a Velaryon bastard, and he went on to become the admiral of the royal fleet and the Lord of Driftmark, so Jon could have done pretty well, especially if Robert had lived and Ned continued to serve as hand of the king.
@@ohthreefiftyone Also, assuming R+L=J, as most people do, it’s not so much the fact because he’s a bastard that he ends up at the wall, it’s because of who his father was.
@@thomascrawley5972 Yeah. The fact that Robb was even willing to make him his heir in the books just before he went to the Red Wedding makes me think if he fought with his brother and they both lived he would be legitimized and possibly given lands and a keep somewhere in the North
@@spearshake4771 No doubt, since Robb was King he was not obligeted anymore to follow the rules about the Night's Watch and would certainly give Jon the family name and lands to hold in his northern kingdom, if Jon so wished.
Bloodraven was bastard of king Aegon IV, and he was Hand of the King for two kings, and Lord Commander of The Night Watch. And he end as creepy tree wizard.
They should have had George as the Maester of the Night's Watch
They did.
And as the Commander.
Woter
I heard he had either a cameo or a role in the pilot episode that was shot with different actors and eventually scrapped. When they shot episode 1 for good he didnt want to be in it.
@@Lorenna1234 he has pics from that first shoot
Looks like he would've been a merchant of some kind who attends danys wedding
People are not equal at the wall
Nobles are privileged and will be put in position of command much faster than low born
The very first scene of the show is about that issue specifically
That's because they are usually trained to lead and fight at birth. It's mostly a matter of skillset.
@@garvwadhwaney306 That's not what the old bear Joer Mormont says, he specifically says that he did to curry favor with his father, and gave him command of the ranging party while he had only 6 months of experience againts Gared's 50 years and Will's 3 years
the quote is from Tyrion III AGOT "The Royce boy was green as summer grass, yet he insisted on the honor of his own command, saying it was his due as a knight. I did not wish to offend his lord father, so I yielded. I sent him out with two men I deemed as good as any in the Watch. More fool I."
They’re so right about Jon Snow being everyone’s favorite hero. I feel so much empathy for him having a struggling childhood being neglected by Catelyn but Ned and his brother showed him love at least. But being a bastard was never easy for him. Everytime they spit on him I just am like MAN LEAVE HIM THE FUCK ALONE!
I don't remember him getting spit on but he's had a rough one
It’s all Lyanna’s and Rhaegar’s fault
@@putinsneighbor8351 Hey if it wasn’t for them Jon Snow would never be born. Plus he can have a promising future compared to the one he had in the show.
Yea he still doesnt have it that bad
In the books characters often refer to members of the Night’s Watch as ‘Black Brothers’, which makes me think of the Benedictine and Cistercian orders. GRRM was also inspired by The Book of the New Sun, which contains a guild of monastic torturers.
The Wall is really cool in the books. When the wildings are going over the first time, three parties make the initial descent and there’s a point three fourths of the way up where Jon can’t see the climbers anymore because the wall is too thin near the top and the sunlight is shining through. A massive chunk the size of a house falls off and even broken apart against the ground people duck and dive out of the way because chunks the size of fists blow past them. The Wall doesn’t have to even be at peak form to be intimidating and formidable.
The Nights watch always remembers me of the Teutonic order
A German crusader order who fought in the Baltic area, in Russia and in Lithuania and Hungary, ( coat of arms was a black cross on white ground with the German eagle in the middle ) only difference to the Templar’s is that the Teutonic Knights didn’t have to cut their hair, and they could have children.
I always thought they were based on the Knights Templar or Knights Hospitalier, I wasn't that far off
The Teutonic Order and the Livonian Order too I think.
Love your videos.
Remember when if you try to leave the knight watch you will be killed? Me neither
"Tray"???
@@QueenDaenerysTargaryenmy English is weak :(
@@theancientone2269 I Apologize. Is that all right???
It’s nights
Well, Jon died. That relieved him of his duty
“In my habit to turn it up to eleven, actually I turned it up to thirty seven in this case.” Lmao
Love how GRRM gets his inspirations. He based the Unsullied after the Mamlucks and Janissary. 🔥🐲
There are clear differences but they look alike I guess.
Sry unsullied look nothing like janissarys . They look more like spartans with phalanx formation
Shame he added the idiotic notion of gelded soldiers...who in his right mind would think a eunuch would make a good fighter?
Night's watch is a place were all brothers are equal and your past doesn't matter.
What a funny line, I laughed at this.
what about the "Great wall of China" and the Mongols? I think that would be apt comparison with nights watch and wildlings.
Well, the “Great Wall” was less of a single contiguous brick wall as often imagined, and more a series of defense in depth walls, military outposts, forts and roaming border patrols along favorable terrain, which the goal of funneling northern invaders into chokepoints.
The Great Wall of China was intended ironically as a strategic offensive into the Mongol Steppe, providing supply havens and safe redoubts for expeditions north, whereas the Wall in GoT is meant as a quarantine, a defensive structure against Wildlings and White Walkers. The Wall is meant as a singular defensive structure. From what I can tell, the Night’s Watch is mainly supposed to act as the first response to any attack from the North, intended to hold out until reinforcements could arrive.
I know this is a weird rant, but I find military structures and the doctrines that inspire their creation really fascinating, just wanted to comment.
@@phantomkryptid2549 Appreciate your fascinating reply. I watched crash course US history. John Green would always make the mongols exceptional.
@@phantomkryptid2549 May be the Mongols are more like the dothraki. Anyway Im still waiting for the release of the winds of winter. The sooner the better.
George said his insparation for the wall in GOT is from hadrians wall. Btw
@@phantomkryptid2549 Very educational. Thank you.
I remember 2 years ago when the show disappointed me and I started to wait for the books. I later completely forgot about the books until recently and was hyped to get Winds Of Winter just to realize he hasn’t finished it yet...
I always thought they were modelled after the French Foreign Legion
What? How?
@@radhiadeedou8286 the french foreign legion is a military force that accepts convicts. Look it up, it still exists
I’ve watched some of these videos but are these from a full documentary? If anyone knows the same of the documentary please tell me
I always look at the Night's Watch as a Gulag with some democracy sprinkled in or a severely underfunded Corrections facility especially when it comes to Jon and his friends it's like juvie you got delinquents and cliques harsh Veteran inmates except everyone serves for life and swears off women and end up spending the rest of their lives endless cold and misery
Where can I find the full documentary?
I wonder if the grey ward ends in dragon age are based on the nights watch. Both are extremely similar. An order that takes anyone. It does not discriminate to race and takes criminals. They were formed to defeat a greater otherworldly evil and as soon as you swear your vows you’re washed from your past life
I believe Grey Warden is inspired from The Fellowship of The Ring (LOTR). Although it could also be argued that The Templars in DA like inspired from Night Watch (also inspired from Knight Templars). Meanwhile we also got Witchers Order that also have similarities with Grey Warden especially when it comes to the dark initiation stuffs. The Witcher books actually older than ASOIAF, while The Witcher 1 came out before DAO 2 years early.
So yeah, there is no solid proof aside from DA world itself definitely inspired from LOTR & D&D Baldur's Gate.
There were no Scots north of the wall. They were Picts. Scots came to Scotland later, from Ireland, although lowland Scots were more likely Angles from Northumbria, which is why lowland Scots have long spoken a form of English, rather than the Gaelic of the highlanders.
If I know anything about the Scots, they'd be proud as fuck to be compared to the Wildlings. Rugged, independent survivalists and warriors who were looked down upon, but could be every bit as honourable as any knight
Where is this clip from?
I would like to see the whole documentary.
Maybe G Martin better tell us when he'll finish those books, we are waiting for
Listening to this history gives me a new perspective on the Pink Letter. Whoever wrote it threatened a military order; therefore as Lord Commander of said order Jon was well within his rights to respond by force in defense of his troops. Granted that's not why Jon wanted to march on the Boltons; but technically he didn't violate his vows by attempting to leave.
I say it all to say in order to circumvent the desertion issue, I suspect the author might've taken deliberate care to word the letter in such a way as to threaten the entire Night's Watch as opposed to just Jon. That way he could get down to Winterfell without getting himself killed.
The Nights Watch is sworn to take no part in matters of the realm. According to the rules John should have just given Ramsey what he wanted assuming of course that he was the author of the letter which is doubtful. The Nights Watch is only a military order when it comes to defending the realm they are definitely not allowed to wage war against lords in Westeros even if severely provoked!
@ you're rude, perhaps offer perspective? None, wow
This Goerge guy seems to know a lot about the game of thrones lore and characters. He should make a book adaptation of the series..
Meh.
Very interesting
Anyone know what documentary this is from?
So why does the nights watch still exist at the end of GoT?
I don't know ask Dave and Dan
Got lost all meanings in s5
In the books at least, the others seems to live in the land of the unending winter. Maybe there are more in there. In the show don't make sense at all
Bs
So, Tyrion said that
There should be a thing where bastards , crippled men have respect
Not inspired somewhat by the limitanei? You have wild fire which was also inspired by Roman Greekfire.
Reminds me of Hadrian’s wall
Hadrian's Wall is entirely in England - the Antonine Wall is further North
My favorite brand of the warrior monks are the Ikko-ikki.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikk%C5%8D-ikki
Ikko-Ikki are badass.
How this guy came up with this is beyond me. Like really?
Dracarys🔥🔥🔥 🐲
House of the Dragon 2022!
Fire will reign!
I thought Jon Snow's story was so damn boring until he died and came back
“The scots were looked at as wildlings in the Middle Ages” one of the most historically illiterate takes I’ve ever heard
I always saw parallels to the French Foreign Legion
Why does everyone mention Hadrians wall and not the Great Wall of China?
Because Westeros is loosely based off the geography and history of England. Scotland for the most part is colder because it’s in the (far) north. Historically Scottish tribes were pretty fierce and wild and would not bend(the knee) to the will of the Roman Empire so they built a giant wall cutting off the wild north and anyone on the wrong side when the wall went up from the rest of civilisation. There are obviously huge comparisons to the Great Wall but overall Westeros is just fantasy England. The red wedding is based off our history. The war of the roses involved the York’s(starks) and the lancasters(lannisters) ( also the fact that two separate factions during that time in essence had a rose as their coat of arms(house Sigil) it’s just crazy how much stuff is a dramatic retelling on English history. The north rebelling against the crown etc haha there’s so much. Scotland even has a place called ‘isle of arran’ ( vale of Arryn much ) honestly there so much and it’s so interesting dude but it’s like 2am and I’m ranting. Apologies x
Because westeros is england
Objection on saying Jerusalem is a Christian land
Because if you go back to the omari's agreement
It was between Muslims and Christians
At that time it was a Christian land but according to that agreement it was given to Muslims by the Christians on conditions that Muslims prevent jew forces from it .
So Muslims did but we didn't prevent people who come for pray or praying places etc
All of Palestine is a Muslim country
No one cares
"All brothers are equal and your past doesn't matter" isclearly not true: high born are clearly favored for command roles regardless of skills or experience.
Cat sure was a bastard to Jon Snow.
Bro let the man speak
I don't think Scots can be all that offended by comparing our people to wildlings. Scots were brutal and tribalistic in all the senses of the world and in keeping with all the negative connotations it possesses. In many ways backwards, resistant to culture, perpetually poor for centuries and the history is filled with savage and violent acts between families, clans and regions. I was taught the entire Michie family name comes from an act of murder. The story is told that Michael McDonald intended to overthrow the heads of the clan, committed murder, but then none of those who said they'd follow him did, and he fled, taking his family name as his family name: Michie, diminutive form of his first name, Michael.
It wasn't until the time of David Hume in the 1700s when he and a few other truly great Scottish thinkers encouraged their fellow Scots to adopt and truly embrace the English language, so as to be connected to the wider world, to all of England's discoveries and accomplishments, to the parts of the world touched by the empire, and everything that had been written from far afield in the English language. By the end of the century some of the leading minds in philosophy, science, language and engineering were Scots. It's proof that a people can be uplifted by equipping them with the knowledge of those who are thriving, and evolution by embracing a different way.
Sounds like some well written English history. You know that there were no Scots north of Hadrian's wall, and that Scots as a culture was invented by the mixing of Anglo and Pictish cultures on the border? I'm sure that your clan had it's history written too. I'm from Oxford.
No offence taken from us scots being called wildlings cause we are wild 😜
Scotsmen were not as scary as Mongolians.
You've never been in Dingwall on a Friday night
Too bad he didn't want it...
Assassins Creed.
They were sworn to proverty...? mmmm i don't think so
This was one of the vows of the Knights Hospitaller. The traditional vows of a holy order were poverty, chastity and obedience, the Hospitaller added a fourth, to be serf and slave to their lords the sick.
Remember this was a devoutly religious, monastic Order. They were monks who helped the poor and sickly and fought wars to protect and hold the holy lands of Jerusalem against the heathens, to them the Jews and Muslims especially. The whole point is absolute commitment to the service of God and the forsaking of all else. Hence a vow of poverty, to give up worldly desires for riches and wealth and luxury.
The only difference is that the real monk warriors were not past criminals given way to repent, major difference. They were mostly nobles who chose the religious path, although rich many times and imbued with the social values of the time they were not scum like the common criminals among the Night's Watch. Very often Martin mixes real historical backgrounds with his hippie like and post modern approaches which have nothing in common with the Middle Ages. Middle Ages societies were not egalitarian and criminals would be quickly executed.