Dutch Directness VS American Indirectness | CRAZY DIFFERENT Conversation Styles!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
- This is another one of those Dutch Things vs. American Things video, and here I talk about how I had to used to a completely different conversation style! Both as a tourist in the Netherlands and as an American expat, I have found that speaking English is sometimes not as straightforward as I initially thought.
--
I like to share my experiences of an American expat in the Netherlands. I describe both the unique and everyday aspects of Dutch culture, and life in Holland while enjoying every bit of it!
Blog website: www.dutchamericano.com
Instagram: DutchAmericano
Get in touch: dutchamericanonl@gmail.com
Suggested videos:
3 Dutch Things I Can't Get Used to: • 3 Dutch Things I Can’t...
5 Gezellige Dutch Things: • Life in Holland: 5 Gez...
Learning & Speaking the BEAUTIFUL Dutch Language: • An American’s Experien...
REVERSE CULTURE SHOCK: 5 American things I find weird after living in the Netherlands: • REVERSE CULTURE SHOCK:...
American PRAISES 5 Things About Living in the Netherlands: • American PRAISES 5 Thi...
--
Speaking of "speaking", I like to listen to things on this tiny, handy, portable speaker: amzn.to/31PxuHf
This low cost, affordable speaker is great to bring outside to a park, garden, or even to just use inside in your home. My uncle gave it to me as a present and I absolutely LOVE IT!
Please note: The link above is an affiliate link that may earn me a small commission, at no additional cost to you! I only recommend products I personally use and love.
![How DIRECT are the Dutch? [American Experiences Dutch Culture Shock!]](/img/n.gif)
As a Dutch person I just think that saying what you mean is the polite thing to do.
Agreed, why waste your time and theirs.
@@dion3306 Scandinavia includes Sweden and Norway too. If you compare the general attitude Swedes are very different from Dutch. Swedes are way too polite, more like British politeness. So, can't really agree with you when you put Scandinavians in same group. However, it is good to say what you think honestly. But you also should accept the similar directness from others. I think Dutch in general have problem accepting same directness from non-Dutch people. They don't really like it. That's funny!
@chris Veld Good point. What you mentioned is a great possibility though.
jan halsema not Scandinavians, but Finns. I’m Finnish, and that’s how we always feel when communicating with Swedes: why can’t we just say things the way they are? 😊
@@davidkasquare I don't think Swedes are direct either. They are too polite as far as I have experienced living and working in Sweden. Totally opposite to Dutch. Now I live in The Netherlands. So, I can see the difference how they communicate. Another thing is Swedes will always smile at you, whereas a Dutch person looks always angry seeing a stranger. :D
"Would you like a bag?"
"I'm good"
"Good at what? And how is that relevant to my question??"
Exaclty that! :D
I guess to this response "I'm good' my first thoughts were "okay this person doesnt need anything else" and assume everthing is alright to him/her. So it wouldnt throw any questions to me I guess. I'm from germany.
@Henri Zwols
No obviously i want a 'zakje' ua-cam.com/video/sWB_ev0dK8o/v-deo.html
btw Ik zou niet zeggen dat nederlanders dat niet zouden moeten herkennen; komt direct uit het Duits; Mir gehts gut
Precies! Gewoon de vraag ontwijken noem ik dat. Irritant en uiteindelijk vind ik dat juist meer onbeleefd dan gewoon direct zeggen wat je vindt!
Another common situation, I understand: "There's something between your teeth."
Dutch reply: "Ooh, thanks for alerting me"
American reply: "Did you really need to embarrass me?"
Honestly as an American, I would thank you. We would obviously prefer if it was said discreetly and not in front of a crowd of people, but my momentary discomfort is better than walking around looking like an idiot
I was born and raised in the USA and I've never once heard anyone get upset or say they were embarrassed when someone lets them know they have something in their teeth.
I guess it is a stereotype about Americans by most of the Dutch people. Americans can be indirect in certain ways but this example is an exaggeration
Perhaps I should add that this was an example given to me by three Americans that do not know each other. One of them told me that it really happened to him. The others might have been exaggerating.
My reply to that American:
No, I didn't *need* to embarrass you! You didn't require my help there, because you were doing a great job of that all by yourself.
I merely wante to save you the greater embarrassment of showing off that thing to hundreds of others.
Right?
To be fair, In Dutch culture there's still a line between directness and being rude, don't expect people to be upfront with you all the time. Also the level of directness varies heavily across the country.
Ja ik moet zeggen dat ze in Limburg vaak wel indirecter overkomen dan de rest van het land. Dat is mijn ervaring tenminste.
I find Dutch people considerate and honest, which is the exact opposite of rude. To me the indirectness is rude, because people are basically going on autocue and avoiding contact. But of course there's also the phenomenon of drunk Dutch people - then they're just as rude as the English.
It also varies wildly between people. Generally the video is true, but there will be Americans that are more direct than some Dutch people.
@@MM-vr8rj Dit kan ik als Limburger alleen maar beamen. Directheid is prima, maar voor mij zit er toch echt een grens aan.
@@katrienktrn Eerder Duitse invloed.
Dutch directness is often considered rude. But the American way seems sarcastic, dishonest and thus far more rude to me as a Dutch person.
I have experienced the 'coffee example' with foreigners indeed. Not just an American thing. So often I've been looked at like I just insulted them when I answered 'no, thank you' to a question like that. And I just don't get it. I answered your question and thanked you for asking. How is that in any way rude?
Dutch people simply don't like confusion or things that lead up to it !!
Why complicate things that are not, right?
It make going around with anyone so much easier if you just can say how it is without the intension to offend someone!!
Americans? Sarcasm? Nah!
@Kenzita exactly
Precisely! If you just said ''No.'' it would be kind of blunt and maybe rude, but the ''no, *thank you* '' clearly implies that you are grateful that they cared enough to ask.
@@whyisgamora4191 You're Dutch, right? I've never seen an American (or other English speaker) use the word "precisely" in the way you did. 😉
I truly dislike that indirectness. Human interaction is tiring as is, without the need to read between the lines to understand the answer you get after you asked a question. In my eyes indirectness has nothing to do with politeness, but all with being dishonest, beating around the bush, talking in half-truth or just plain lying.
If I would ask a really good friend, who is crying in the bathroom is he/she is ok, and he/she would answer "I am fine, how are you?" I would take it as an insult. I consider him/her a close friend, he/she is clearly NOT ok, but apparently he/she doesn't trust me enough to tell me, in other words: he/she isn't such a good friend as I thought.
for that last one i'd hammer in on it and say something along the lines of : no you are clearly not okay your face is all runny and everything tell me what's wrong and i'll see what i can do to make you feel better.. if you don't want to talk about it still i'd take them somewhere else and do something fun with them try to cheer them up maybe then they will be able to speak with me.. basically i'm a helping kind of person if someone comes to me for help i'll do whatever i can to achieve that especially if it's a close friend
Wait... 'No thank you' is direct? Thats so weird to me :')
She is younger. Her generation is more politically correct.
@@mannydiaz275 How is this related to political correctness :P. Also im 27 and i dont think she is THAT much younger.
This has more to do with extreme levels of politeness than PC culture.
I thought she was going to go with a plain 'no' as the example as that can be a bit rude sometimes, but I can't see how 'no thank you' can be rude in any way.
i'm curious why you find it to be so weird
@@smellyfeet11 what about answering a question in a polite way is rude?
Being indirect all of the time sounds to me like some kind of to lie, most of the dutch people would recognize that as dishonest
and a waste of time: why beat around the bush if you can be honest and clear.
I always feel a bit uncomfortable when a cashier asks me "How are you doin". Especially when they look like they don't care at all. I want them to shut up and do their job, unless they really care.
So true !!
I'm a native Dutch living for a little over a decade in Brazil and I think that indirect talk is something that is typical from the Americas in general.
Being direct is often conceived as rude while there no swearing or improper words used.
For me personally the meaning of "Rude" is when people approach you swearing or like a personal attack that comes with the body language and all.
People that I know appreciate my directness here though as it would be impossible to change, it's attached to my Identity.
@@baskoning9896 comes with the complexity of having a non-unitary federation such as the US is ever since post-13 colonys and the EU will be if we allow that to maintain, for directness and honesty you need familiarity
@@RJA6508 always feel a bit uncomfortable when a cashier asks me "How are you doin". Especially when they look like they don't care at all
---
This is examplary of how every dutch person will feel about it, we will go, if you don't really want to know how I am feeling, don't ask, works the other way as well, because if they ask that and we Dutch as we are go: "well actually, not that good, my cat has been ill for a while and last week i found a big dink in my car that wasn't there before"
Then the American will go... wait I didn't want you to...I was only...like err being polite and stuff, and if Americans are honest with themselfs they will at one point recognise we are quite correct about that, it's a fairly dishonest way of communicating
Very Dutch: "Ah, you went to the hairdresser? When is he going to finish it?"
If the sarcasm is not biting, it is not worth it.
For the Dutch, the more deeply you are able to insult people, the deeper the evidence of friendship.
As for 'bluntness', for the Dutch it really is opening the door for more personal interaction.
Did you fell of the stairs?
Or, 'Were you run over by a lawnmower'?
'did your hairdresser die?'
"did you go to the butcher for a haircut?"
I like being direct. You don't have to assume anything or try to second guess what's being said and what it means.
Dutch are direct
You mean, the Dutch are, well ya know, like, sort of, kinda, not to beat about the bush, but to say it directly, direct.
Dutch:Would you like more coffee?
American:I'm perfect
Dutch thoughts:Look at the ego on that one.
Baer Ververgaert I was a bit surprised at that one myself, and I’m American. Never in my life heard anyone in the US saying they were perfect like that.
i'd just go a very loud and abnoxious HUH? and pull a confused face
you are not is the correct answer
LMAOO
First example, say a Dutchie asks “would you like some more coffee” if you answer, “I’m good” that Might be misheard, or even misinterpreted as “Is good” (is goed) which is a common way to say yes to that question in Dutch.
Another similar interpretation that makes sense to me is as a confirmation that you're okay with the current direction of events, i.e. "I'm good" = "I'm okay with that" = "Yes I want some more".
You must really suck in English when you think they would mean is good lol I'm good is a normal sentence and i never even been in the US :)
“Ja hoor,” “is goed,” “doe maar”... they mean yes.
“I’m good”, “that’s okay”... they mean no.
👽 take 📝
@@HB-mj2jz no need to be rude bro :/ they are just saying that to many dutchies saying "im good" when they actually mean "no thank you" is very confusing.
because think about it: "do you want more coffee?"
"im good"
vs
"do you want more coffee?"
"no thank you"
which one makes more sense? the second one right? because the person asking immediately knows the anwser. while "im good" can be open to interpretion.
with dutchies there is little to no interpetion
Wanted to say the same thing, I also think people people confuse it with “is goed”.
When I was an English teacher in China, one of my colleagues said she explained 'politeness' in the US. As an example it was saying that you will have people over to your place, but both parties understand that it is not a serious invitation - just being friendly. She was totally stumped when a student asked her: 'why is it polite in your culture to say things that you do not mean?'
We both took a little while to reflect on that one.
@John Kochen LOL, by whom?
@John Kochen dont compare dutch people with chinese people, you are going to make a lot of people angry.
@John Kochen Old Chinese expression: All Westerners are blind, except for the Dutch, they have one eye, whereas the Chinese have two.
@John Kochen It only makes sense when it comes to directness. When it comes to for example cuisine the Dutch and Chinese are complete opposites.
@John Kochen Please elaborate! I'm curious LOL
I found this video highly interesting. I feel many Dutch take it as a form of insult or unfriendliness if you do not talk truth to them.
I'd rather you hurt my feelings outright then beat around the bush with no respect. Once the cards are all out on the table we can then do something about it or move on
Often a waitress will tell that I am very good in selecting dishes I want to order, or she will tell me that it is her favourite too. It makes me regret that I came to the restaurant and puts the restaurant on the "do not return" list. Fortunately not all waitresses do so, and also there are many restaurants in the US.
telling the truth and not beating around means you respect the person enough to handle it, yes in short:)
@@RJA6508 -WHY?
Its feels a little bit as insult when the answer is “ i am good “. You are friendly and politi and ask your guest if hè want something ( or, can i gave you something) So as a host you want to please your guest . If you say “ no thank you” and after i am good, its oké. But when you only say “ i am good “ its comes over like no intresst or do not disturb me. I don,t know but if you want to be polite than i think in this examples that politeness is unbalanced.
She's right about what she said.
Dutch people are easy to understand if you put your mindset to "it is what it is" no exceptions!!
The one thing that i found weird is that american always say: how are you. Like if you dont care dont ask
I stopped asking years ago, unless I really meant it. But I might be an outlier. It always felt disingenuous unless I really wanted to know the answer. And if I really want to know I'll look the person right in the eyes and I'll slow down to ask them. If I just want to say hi, there's plenty of ways to say it in a direct way, including the common greeting "howdy" where I live in the midwest.
It's an 'ice breaker', it means 'you're next'. (please optional), move forward ' no answer expected in this case.
The strange thing is that they always say: "How are you doing". It sounds if you're actually doing something at that moment, like how are you moving or how are you working. Even stranger that the English nowadays say the same. We learned "How do you do?" I watch English television several times a week, but I don't hear the English say "How do you do?" anymore.
@@DutchEddie -Or it could be just, "How are ya?" Answer is "Fine,can I get some postage stamps too please?"
That’s unfortunate you came across some that made you feel that way.
As an American, when I ask ‘how are you?’ It’s usually to someone I’ve already met and I genuinely want to know.
"Dutch directness, which, for the record, I love"
Me: yeah but does she really? :P
Funny thing: I'm dutch and sometimes I'm getting English speaking persons on the phone and they start "How do you do?" and I learned at school to respond with "Very well think you, and you?", but they always sound confused like they never expect the question back.
Some dutch directness: You should feed your little fox more. He looks a bit skinny 😁
@@Jb-bq2zb I think you are supposed to smile and say 'I'm great!' even if you are dying inside.. 😂
An American friend of mine came to visit Holland, so I took her to a local museum. Whenever I pointed something out she'd react with "That's crazy." and I'm here thinking to myself... 'Well it's not 'that' crazy." haha, to this day I don't know if she actually enjoyed the museum or was bored out of her wits.
Lol, I am good literally translates as 'ik ben goed' (as opposed to evil).
'wil je een boterham' 'IK BEN GOED!' 'jajaja... ik ook. Maar ehmm... wil je nou een boterham?'
This only happens when your English teachers never taught you tio translate context but allowed you to translate literally.
Evil? Whut? The opposite of 'goed' is 'slecht', and 'slecht' doesn't translate to 'evil' only, also to 'bad'. Furthermore, 'goed' itself translates to both meanings of 'good'. So I don't entirely get what you're trying to say?
@@FrancisBehnen The opposite of 'ik ben goed' is 'ik ben slecht'.
Its like saying : 'my alignment is good' (as opposed to being evil or bad) when asked a yes/no question. It makes no sense (when taken literally).
Uhuh, I know what they are trying to say, but really .... Just Answer The Bloody Question Will Ya! (we can discuss how you are feeling/ your competences some other time)
@@FrancisBehnen
"Evil? Whut? The opposite of 'goed' is 'slecht', and 'slecht' doesn't translate to 'evil' only, also to 'bad'. Furthermore, 'goed' itself translates to both meanings of 'good'. So I don't entirely get what you're trying to say?"
😁 Not according to D&D 2nd Edition.
i considered "no. thank you" polite enough. even in english
For me as a German I understand the Dutch directness very well.:)
We zijn ook eigenlijk Duitsers, nur mit nem andere klang(k).
Are Germans also direct? I've never really noticed it, but I wasn't paying attention to this on my visits to Germany?
There are many video's about Dutch directness/rudeness. In the Netherlands too it is the intonation of the voice that is the difference between directness or rudeness. I think that demands some cultural finetuning of foreigners living here. But, even that may not be enough. I had a superior at a department of the ministry of defence (a retired ltkol) remarking with a stern voice that my black trousers were worn and that I should buy new ones. I replied (I am civilian) that I would love him to please wear his uniform again so that he could polish his buttons again and be satisfied in that way. All very cordial, but I think this conversation can only take place in the Netherlands with both parties smiling.
One time, this lady called and announced that they where finally able to ship this item I bought. She asked, "when would you like it delivered?" I responded with, "yesterday would be fine." She did not expect this answer and shockingly sad, "but, that is not possible." I responded with, "then as soon as possible", but I would have loved a playful, "we will give it our best." I was just kidding ofcourse.
She has a 'Dutch' sense of humor. ( she could not understand your sarcasm.)
i would have chuckled and said i'll see what can be done
As a Dutchmen I recently started working with Americans a lot more and this video is spot on and almost hilarious. Great work!
Ah that helped me. Dutch guy living in Callifornia for 15 years. Never quite got when some people say that I am very direct and to the point. Thankfully they appreciate it 🤗
Seriously? Isn’t this one of the Dutch stereotypes. You seriously didn’t understand it? I actually don’t believe you didn’t know.
Joshboston ik ben een Limburger 🤗🤪😂
@@macexpert7247 aha, niet om onbeleefd te zijn maar ik woon in Eindhoven en kom regelmatig in contact met Limburgers en merk dat ze minder direct zijn dan Brabanders en andere delen van Nederland.
You: Starfish tattoo on your face.
Me: “Wow...that’s a bold choice.”
As a Dane first of all I think we are very similar to the Dutch.
When you said that saying no thanks was "rude" I was like 😲since saying no thanks, is what is taught a polite person would do. I wouldn't even consider it "direct", direct would simply be answering "no" which would be perfectly acceptable and normal here.
"Hi, do you like my new hairdo?"
Dutch person: "No."
Me thinking in Dutch... okay, I do :)
Me thinking in American... omg, rude!
😂
Yup, that's exactly where I would go with that question. You want my opinion, you get my opinion: plain, unsalted, flat in your face the truth.
Okay, I might say "If it works for you, congratulations on your choice. But personally, I'm not too fond of it!"
I’d say “well i mean its just hair itll grow out”
“I liked your previous look better...”
'oh, apart.'
This is so true. I find the Dutch directness refreshing. I frequently ask my fellow Americans "So... is that a yes or a no?" to their question responses. It is hard not to ask a fellow Americans to get to the point (this would be considered very rude in the U.S.). Let us not forget the super passive aggressive Southern "Well, bless your heart".
This is so interesting as a British person. It seems that our politeness level exists somewhere in between American and Dutch.
I noticed that Americans (almost) always smile, up to a point where most Dutch people will start to question your sanity because Dutch people only smile when they really feel like smiling or there is something/something happens that makes you smile.
This is the main reason Americans are seen as fake persons by us. You're not in a colgate commercial but a conversation ffs.
@@grepominer8820 -that may be true but I rarely notice a Dutch person smiling at even a funny commercial!!~
Starfish: "holy shit, you must have been very drunk... And the one who placed the tattoo, drunk too?"
Colleague in a pink shirt: "didn't the lights work, you're wearing you wive's clothes...".
Regarding the "I'm good" coffee example (2:30), I don't think it's just your positive tone that caused confusion here. In Dutch it would be perfectly normal to answer: "Would you like some more coffee?" with: "Dat is goed, dank je!" (That's good, thank you!), but that answer would indicate that you *do* want the coffee refill!
In this case the Dutch phrase: "Dat is goed" should be interpreted as: "Dat vind ik een goed idee" (I think that's a good idea), while the English phrase: "I'm good" should be interpreted as: "I'm good with the current situation - i.e. things should not be changed".
The American sandwhich method: Say something positive, something negative, something positive. When asked for an opinion.
Do you like my shirt?
''Uhmm, your pants look amazing, I'm not a huge fan of the shirt though but that may just be me, but your glasses look great!''
Interesting video, i've heard a lot of how americans think of the dutch directness, but as a native dutchman, i never quite understood in what way we are that direct or maybe rude..
Thnx for all the examples.
Bergje360 Zelfs voor ons Vlamingen zijn jullie geweldig “in your face” hoor !
Yup, this Dutch directness is often seen as rudeness in other countries/cultures.
I'm a native born Dutch, but lived about 43 years in Belgium/Flanders. It definitely softened most of that directness. Now I live in Asia, and need to adjust even more, because masters of in-directness are Asians. In Asia, also Americans are seen as direct/rude. Just to show how relative this phenomenon is. Chinese are a different breed in Asia. They are often considered just rude.
That's exactly what I thought after living in The Netherlands. I don't think Dutch people are really that "direct" as they are projected by media. Somehow, many Dutch also feel proud about that so called directness which seldom exists.
@@hansreynders6853 Asian indirectness has various factors most of which come from the colonial past how the society was there and how they used to be treated by the Western occupiers back then. Chinese never had any invasion by the West, so their society grew up differently. It's more about the way of communication so that a foreigner is not offended (as they consider them as guests). That sounds indirect to any Western person including even an American. So, comparing Asians with Western way of communication is quite absurd.
And Americans find it strange that we find them fake!
Say what you think or don't speak ad all.
There's no 'right' way. This is culture. They prefer a bit of indirectness, and that is also quite nice. When I was there I genuinely enjoyed that interactions were always so positive and you don't have to worry so much about "telling the truth" (what if you don't feel like divulging it?). Nothing fake about it, just different.
@@user-rx4jg8lq7h Sorry, but not telling the truth is the same as lying... You do not *have* to get into details all he time, no-one is asking that. There are a lot of ways to be polite, non-offensive while being absolutely honest to the other person.
Q: What do you think of my new .... ?
(you find it buttugly)
the answer does not need to be "I find it revolting" (even if it is the thruth).
Depending on your relationship with that person, it *might* be said that way (my best friends would phrase it just like that f.e. and I would appreciate their honesty.)
General politeness (to people not close) would be along "It is not my personal favorite style, but if it makes you happy that's what matters." instead of just gushing in general how great it is to have something new, how bold, how daring bla bla bla.. (Aka telling them that this is a great idea while it really is not.
@@user-rx4jg8lq7h I get what you mean, but I think this directness has helped our country develop better than indirectness did for the USA. But yeah in our eyes we have the right way and in your eyes you probably do it better.
In Dutch way my response: I think you are speaking b**s**t.
In American way: I don't agree with you.
@@TheIndianTechie007 when I lived in the USA I noticed it a lot and with all the contacts I have, I still notice it.
Americans don't have the balls to say what they think in surten cases.
That is fake. As you don't say that you don't like something or agree with someone, say it!
Not all Americans are like that, but I see it with the Americans I know in the USA and the ones that live here.
The ones that live in the Netherlands, where all shocked and the longer they live here, the more they take it over.
"Your shirt is very nice!"
American: "Thank you."
Dutch: "Do you like it? I like it, too!"
I once chided a Dutch woman for smoking, saying, "How's your cigarette?" She responded, "That's a stupid question!"
she is correct tho, it is a stupid question, if she didnt like it she wouldnt be doing it lol xD
"A shirt that is completely unflattering" part made me think of all those lovely Wallmart photo's with people dressed in manners of major WTF levels.
Now i understand why those people dress like that.. nobody telling them they look ridiculous! lol
Briliant the way you have analized the two cultures!
Actually, with the starfish example, I think I would just start laughing. Not in an insulting way, but if a friend of mine did something so stupid, I don't think I could stop myself from laughing.
When you fly in Canada the toilets are pointed out by the attendants as “toilet” in Canadian French, and also “Bathroom” in American English. North Americans can’t bring themselves to say the word toilet, but I can assure you that there is no bath on any aeroplane I have flown on in North America LOL.
This video was so helpful to my loud American Ass! Thank you! I just contacted my Dutch friend and told her that I know realize how confusing I must be to her. Lmao! 😂
When you create a society that prefers to stray away from getting hurt feelings, nobody will ever learn how to deal with getting their feels hurt..
Nothing good will come from that.
True. I’m an American who has lived in Holland. This video reminds me that I am perhaps an outsider because I don’t play these games of indirectness. (As a nerd, I do have Aspie friends; perhaps that type of socialisation marks my outsider habits?)
Here in Serbia even simple "No" is not considered as rude very often.Just like "come here, please". Do this/ that, please... is considered as very polite and formal.
"That's interesting" is just like my mom says "Oh, wat apart". I just know it's negative, but she doesn't say it directly. She says it a lot though, so it makes me uncomfortable sometimes.
Dat is omdat jemoeder waarschijnlijk een echte Hollandse is, en sarcasme iets vanzelfsprekend is.
check. I'm from Noord-Holland.
when we don't want to hurt someone's feelings.. 'apart' or 'dat is apart' is the equivalent of 'that's interesting '.
not sarcasm, but not wanting to lie.. so keeping it kinda neutral.😎👍
Dat vinden we niet raar. Dat vinden we bijzonder
my great grandmother used to do this with "Prachtig" (beautiful) but she would say it sarcastically so when kids would give a drawing and she didn't like it she would reply with that
I've always found "I'm good" anything but a polite answer.
Someone is offering you something, you thank them for offering it.
"No, thank you" Is direct and polite.
You are spot on. I'm Dutch and it took me a good number of years to learn the "code". Now when I meet new people from the US but also Asians, I ask them to be blunt with me since I have only two braincells and can't be bothered with subtilities. It is definitely an advantage to be Dutch since people know we are direct so I can be myself for most of the time.
:P
Botterik :D
Fascinating and hilarious. Great videos, Eva! An American told me she was a bit perplexed that we often announce, e.g. during a conversation, that we have to go to the bathroom. “Ik moet even plassen/ naar het toilet.” etc.
Most places in the US i've been, they call it a "restroom" and not a toilet. For me a restroom should have a bed or at least a very lazy chair....
I often say "even de aardappels afgieten".
"nature calls" ;)
As half of an American, I cracked up and subscribed.
Dutch language is 50% sarcasm and 50% honesty. At least in my experience.
First times someone said "no, I am fine" in the US I thought it was weird. Would he want the coffee only when he is not fine? I am glad you are fine, but... Do you want coffee or not???
Oh btw "would you like some more coffee?" The usual and polite respons would be "No, thank you" (in dutch as wel as english) and maybe ad something flattering like "it was lovely, but I really had enough". That way, it is clear to everyone, the answer to the question is "no" but also: the offer is really appreciated. Where americans are unspeakably rude by just focusing on themselves "I = me, myself and I= am okay" and even not thank the person offering them something.
And they call the dutch rude....
Facts and you're throwing them around like it's nothing. Thank YOU.
I was looking forward to you addressing this subject. I always love to see how non-Dutch handle Dutch directness.
I was waiting so long for this video!!!! omg everything you said is sooooo true I can’t even
When the company I worked for was being acquired by a US-based company, it took us some time to figure out what our American counterparts meant when they said "I appreciate your candour".
i am dutch and i find indirectness to be rude and dishonest even with good intentions. in my experience it's easier and more productive to work with a simple to understand and direct answer to something rather than beating around the bush.
constructive critisism and being direct about a matter is something we grow up with and the opposite makes us not trust someone. at least, i don't trust such people.
being afraid to hurt someone's feeling has no use in daily scenarios as long as you treat everyone with respect.
When I taught in America I said once to a student" That is stupid!" (Dat is stom) And got the parents at my door!!!!!
I mean as a teacher you should be encouraging even when they are wrong, so you might so that is not correct but that is stupid is rude imo.
It depends very much on the context though. Say, you ask a question to the class, someone answers wrongly and then you say it, that is rude, also in the Netherlands. But since you say "dat is stom", it doesn't fit that context and so it was probably something that's fine in the Netherlands.
@@Shredder91 it depends on what the context is really like yeah it can be discouraging but it can also be very helpful, because it might just make you stronger or rethink stuff.
You don't say the age of the student but that answer would probably not be appropriate even in the military-if he could prove he was not stupid, you'd be in trouble (exception, US military recruit instructor)
I'm Dutch but grew up in England, and there's the same "I'm good" response over there, so when I first moved back I would always say "ik ben goed" automatically,, ahh so embarrassing thinking back 😂😂
When something is interesting in the "good" way I'd personally just use "interessant" but in the "bad" way I'd probably phrase it like "vreemd" or "apart", i.e. differing from normal in a way that does not necessarily imply positivity. So the actual meaning would be more like "Wow, this has really gotten my attention" vs "Wow, this is strange".
Or "bijzonder"!
The part when an American replys with "Oooh that's so interesting" was a huge eye opener for me. Now I know not to continue the conversation on that topic :)
hah i'd get the sarcasm but misunderstand it as a personal attack.. i've had it before.. did not end in a fun goodbye i'll tell you that 🤣🤣
I was glad she explained the difference in intonation. I was under the impression that it was categorically a bad thing when they say something is interesting.
This one is tricky because it is all about intonation, facial expressions and body language. As an American, born and raised, I have often felt like an alien because, somehow, I have always just been direct...such a hassle to have to read so much tone! But, sometimes, when said enthusiastically and with engagement in facial expression, body language and follow up questions, "that's so interesting" genuinely means, thats so interesting...but if you sense disdain, judgement, boredom or DISinterest...don't let the words lead you astray, that is indeed the true message!
When someone asks me "how are you?" as an alternative to hello I am like "if you do not actually want to know how I am feeling why bother asking me it?". Often I do honestly reply to it and they do not even seem to pay attention to it :) I am Dutch from origin but I notice a lot of non-Dutch cultures have this indirectness. If for example someone has their zipper of their pants not entirely closed or if they without noticing it have someone non permanent on their clothes/face or such, I tend to tell them directly. Rather warn someone about something that might look awkward then trying to be polite and not saying what is wrong with the risk of them making a fool out of themselves for a longer unwanted time :) If someone asks me how something looks/sounds or so on I tell them my honest opinion. What would be the point in sarcasticly saying that it is interesting? A better response could be that despite one's good efforts if these certain aspects are altered that could improve the whole. Also always clearly state that it is my own opinion not that it is a fact. What I think is either good or bad does not apply to everyone :)
being indirect is like making things more beautiful than it actually is
When I moved to the UK I was so confused when people kept asking me if I was "alright." Turns out the's the British equivalent of "How you doing?" The correct answer is something like, "Yeah mate, you alright?" I probably confused some people by asking why I wouldn't be alright? lol
Dutch: we're probably going to not be able to keep in touch so there's no sense in trying to do so. Americans: We'll keep tabs!
Dutch: we're not going to be friends, but let's at least try to keep things professional. Americans: Sure, I'll be there tonight for some team-bonding, it''ll be great! (not showing up)
Dutch: I can't do anything with your comment on this, whatsoever. Americans: Alright, I'll see what I can do with this, it might take a while.
Dutch: No. Americans: I'll have to think about it and take things into consideration.
Talk about beating around the bush, alright. I've often find when I get honest regarding my feelings towards certain situations - a lot of people in the American culture can't handle the apparent, sudden directness and shock into a very passive-agressive stance or feel the need to defend their feelings. Whereas I feel like I'm having the decency and respect to be upfront about how I feel and my views concerning a fact or situation.
I think your examples go much too far. Far too blunt! (just my opinion)
Hi Eva, maybe it's time to take a look in the other cities of the Netherlands. The Netherlands is so much more than just Amsterdam. Other regions with very different habits and manners. Come and have a nice weekend with your girlfriend in Zwolle.
Yess! I live here too!
I think a lot of cultures have the same norms, but they are prioritized differently. In this case two norms apply: "Being honest and clear" and "Not bother/hurting someone else". I think the for the Dutch, being honest and clear is more important than not bother/hurting someone. In the state it is the other way around. And that results in these differences in behavior.
Fantastic, and so recognizable.
Leave it to the Americans to respond to simple questions by stating they're perfect ;p
When i was in America, and i ordered a coke, always the question followed "is Pepsi okay?" Or "is coke okay?"
When in the Netherlands you just get a cola, no mather what brand it is.
I bet your where in the south. I live here and I get that all the time.
Is that what you mean by being 'indifferent'?
I had this too, so I asked a server one time and she told me that companies got sued because they gave pepsi instead of Coke or the way around.
The cola wars were real when I was a teen. Lol.
As an American who has been steeped in American culture my entire life, I consider myself an expert in using and deciphering indirect communication. I still sometimes find it difficult at times on my job as a registered nurse. When asking patients about medical problems it is critical to get accurate and decisive information. Also confusing, different subcultures in the US will use different styles of indirectness.
As a Dutch person, Dutch directness is fun and absolutely cute. I find a lot of Dutch people blunt, but they still wrap it as their o, so cute magic power "Dutch directness". Sorry, even me, being Dutch, have issues sometimes with the bluntness, especially because some Dutch people don't realize they are just being blunt. At my age, it can still catch me off guard.
I have heard a Dutch guy say to his Jordanian friend 'That yellow shirt makes you look like a taxi.' He took it well and we laughed but I don't think Jordanians are as direct either.
I am moving to the Netherlands this November. Your videos have been super helpful!
Happy to hear it =)
Dutch Americano we should have a meetup some time in 2021!
Welcome, in advance :) Where are you from, if I may ask?
Patsy Bailey California!
Welcome, and good luck with our climate 😀
For me as a Dutchman its the other way around. In my opinion directness is way more friendly than talking in morse code and avoiding the question (like some English and American people do). What youre saying is more important than the way HOW u say it.
Thank you very much for this video!
If you see your friend in tears, would you ask "how are you doing?"
I'm American and I'd ask "What's wrong?"
im dutch and i would ask "wat is er?" which basically means "what happened?" or "whats wrong?"
so yes, pretty direct 😂
Directness is not rudeness, of course, but there's a thin line to walk.
The Dutch philosophy is that while a polite answer may sound nicer at the moment it is received, it may cause more pain and harm long term if the thing said wasn't truthful, so that in a more fundamental sense you're doing the other better service by not "beating around the bush".
But, of course, you always have to take the situation in context. For example, suppose you're over at someone's house, and that person has prepared dinner for you. You can clearly tell she has done her utmost best and you see she is desperately hankering for approval and apprehensive about it but quite frankly, the dish is .... interesting, in that American sense you mentioned. If she would then ask me for my opinion, my answer would be quite different ("it's great!") from the same situation but with a confident person who is into some experimental cooking instead and who seems to genuinely want to know what I think because it's an experiment for her, too - in which case I would tell her in non-aggressive terms why I think it wasn't that good and what might improve it. And even then, the choice of words and intonation matter a great deal so I would still try to be as "soft" as possible, but without covering any of my thoughts up.
Of course, persons that actually need to _defend_ themselves by saying: "Hey! I'm Dutch! I say it like it is! " more often than not are being needlessly direct or even rude ... and they know it themselves (or they wouldn't feel the need to defend themselves in that way).
I think that if you care for a person, You say the truth, to others you are polite...
RH 1 - Ja you speak truth - I agree!
This was really really funny. Thank you for this video.
I just love your bits on UA-cam! 🙂👍Very recognizable .. I say as a Dutch person 😁
When you get a bad haircut a dutch person in the region where I live, will say stuff like:
- did you cycle Into a storm?
- Since when do you have a Guinea Pig on your head?
And my preferred comment:
-So....when are you going to go back to have it finished?
haha, or we say: did you fall down the stairs?
Another one is: "Did you have an argument with the hairdresser (kapper)?"
Did a lawnmower run you over?
- Did your hairdryer explode :)?
I live in France for over 40 years now and some of the french habits I never got used to. The french take a long time before coming to the point. You have to talk about the weather, inquiry about family, maybe some politics and only then you say what you came for!
that's why french tv and radio is horrible
LOL! I’ve only visited France, and I’m just a nouvelle vogue cinema fan, but but your point comes through to me. It’s true.
Just discovered your channel, and I really like it! Never been to America but I heard a lot of stories from dutch friends who have been to the US
We Dutch are often very indifferent. That is our way of being indirect, by avoiding interaction.
It's a bit of a shame when you think about it, how both Americans and Dutch people interpret the other's (in)directness as quite rude or insincere sometimes. If I understand you correctly, both actually mean well and want to be nice to the people around them, which is a good thing at its core. It just seems like they go about it differently but they're aiming at the same end result. So the American logic would be, I am helping the other person, I don't want them to feel bad, and it's ok if I tell a white lie or even suffer myself to make that happen. The focus there is on the other person, and you doing or saying something that will benefit that person. Which is kind. The Dutch logic would be, I am helping the other person, I don't want them to feel bad, so it's ok if I tell the truth, even when the truth might not be ideal or even difficult for me to say. By telling the truth, the other person can do something about it, whatever it is, and that is beneficial to them. Which is also kind. I think it would be nice if more people could focus on the (imo) essential part here, how both approaches seem to come from a good place, from a place of empathy. Don't get me wrong, as a Dutch person with autism, the American way would definitely confuse the hell out of me, but I do think it's good to consider where both parties are coming from. Neither side seems rude to me. Just my 2cts 😊
Patsy - you've hit it right on the nose! Excellent analysis!!
“Good” in Dutch is ‘goed’. Therefore Dutch people might understand the ‘I’m good’ as ‘ja goed’, thus confirming you indeed would like more coffee.
Let alone 'I'm perfect'! I have a degree in English, I knew about 'I'm good', but until today I wouldn't have been able to parse 'I'm perfect'. I would probably just have acted on the one word in there that I did understand!
Dutch people understand it as "I'm in" or "I'm good to go for one more" as good is a positive word ... Although, if you use "no thanks, I'm good" it'll give the obvious understanding as a no go !!
I would understand but that's probably because I spent 50% of my time on the internet loooll
Sorry but I'm good is not even close to "JA" goed!
I'm good = het is goed geweest
I have a friend from China I met in college--she had come here for her master's degree. She could only barely speak English when we first met. The biggest issue with our communication was not the language barrier though. It was her incredible indirectness. I truly had no idea whether she was saying yes or no half the time! She decided to stay in America after she finished school and has been here for years now. I have gotten used to her indirect answers now and usually know whether she means yes or no, lol. I would say it took a couple of years to learn her ways. I wonder if she thought my American directness was rude...I will have to ask her. She will probably say something like...."ohhh. Not reaaally....I mean I wouldn't think so. But maybe it could be a little bit....but no, I dont tthink sooo...," which means, "yes."
In my experience 'How are you?' by an English speaker is not a question. It's just a greeting. Chances are if you answer truthfully, as a Dutch person would ('Hoe gaat het?' -Ja, goed hoor', or '-Ja, gaat wel. Zware week gehad'), you either get a blank look or the other person will start talking without even acknowledging you are speaking ^^
I think being direct or not has something to do with the circle of friends and family you're in. There are direct Americans and political correct Dutchies.. Just more direct people in The Netherlands ;-) I work with mostly German colleagues and they gave me at my birthday a bright orange t-shirt with on the front "Sorry" and on the back: " I am Dutch" ;-) ;-)
So some Germans do have a sense of humor?
@@corpluym No the shirt was made in the Netherlands.
@@kwando472 😂
And did you smile or not?
Just generalising here :..If you have the idea that you have everything "Bigger" and "Better" and live your life according to that, you most likely will be offended easily.
LOL, that last one is funny. My father liked to mess with people, so when he visited Boston once he went to a Starbucks and the girl behind they counter greeted him with the typical "How are you?" My father then started telling that poor confused girl all about how his day had been (just to mess with her). It was hilarious as she had no idea how to respond.
Hoe maakt u het? Hoe gaat het? We say it all the time and don't expect a real answer
Saying yes, please and no, thank you, was normal in the states when I was your age. It was called manners. But we have found other ways to express ourselves since then.
"Time to go home." you say. The host after 5 minutes when you still zipping your coffee; "You still here?"
That's just plain funny LOL
Haha ja. Or they just say “ga dan”.
Nr 3.: the Dutch do have a way of saying “that’s interresting!”. We say: “wel apart”.
It’s killing.
The face will tell it all, no words needed 😂😂😂😂
"heel bijzonder!" is ook een goeie
Leuk!
Oh and what an English student said to me: in the UK when you are visiting a friends house and they ask if you want a drink its sort of polite to do a little back-and-forth… ‘no i am fine, thanks’, ‘are you sure?’ ‘Yes i really dont want a drink its ok’, ‘really? Its no trouble at all.’ ‘Well ok if you insist then’ and then they will give you a drink.
Here if you visit a Dutch persons house and they ask if you want a drink and I say no then they will get themselves a drink and shut the fridge. 😄
Golden rule: anything potentially embarrassing, do not say it in public.
Platinum rule: be diplomatic, do not make enemies.
South Africans are the same. We literally will straight up tell each other what we want them to know. We get annoyed when people try to be too friendly or cannot get to the point quick enough. I also realised (when chatting to American friends) that you guys take everything with a pinch of salt which makes things confusing when we literally mean what we say 😂🤷♂️
How are things in South Africa for the whites, today?
That might be your Dutch heritage.
Speaking of American indirectness: the first example came up in this video after a minute and 41 seconds of chat and two commercials
Yeah, typical US waffle, waffle, waffle.
and a great many 'actually's" :)
Listen to Dutch 'influencers' on UA-cam. They talk and talk, but don't say anything.....
We are just efficient with words. You ask something, you get the answer.Telling the truth is good for heart. Love your vlogs. Keep going 👍😘😘😘
Oh, I must have scared a crap out of that American waiter, when I told him that the food is interesting. I mean, it was good, just unexpected.