TOTAL CHAOS after New York Earthquake | Control Tower Evacuates + Radio Problems
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- Опубліковано 4 кві 2024
- Video of first minutes after the earthquake - • New York HIT BY 4.8 Ma...
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PART 2 on the New York Earthquake. There's a lot more of audio from JFK, LaGuardia and other nearby airports. More videos to come (only audio and transcript or radar scope) if support is received. These take a really long time to edit, taking audio from different frequencies, merging them up and producing the radar animation.
Any support is welcome and really appreciated.
PART 1: ua-cam.com/video/MVHaEqLjbsA/v-deo.html
What was the reason that they had to move to an alternate location? Was the tower damaged or something?
MOOOOOOREEEEEEEEE
Love what you put up. Good to see everyone staying professional despite the rather unprecedented situation going on at Newark.
@@ej2953they didn't know if it was damaged or not. Better safe than sorry.
Thank you these audio transcripts. Appreciate all your efforts and work👍👍
Bet that pilot loved playing ATC for a while 😂
Luckily he wore his pink frilly knickers that morning!😂🤣
3:00 lmao Spirit Airlines clearing a United heavy for takeoff is just funny. What a weird day for ATC.
This is United 2404 and I'm your dj, Captain Smoooooth, here to play you into the night with only the best smooooth jazz.
his passenger messages must be grooooovvvvyyyyy
I could feel his voice in my SOUL, son!
Barry White is still alive and flying for United
@@eltonalonsopompeu615YEAH! This is what I was going to comment!!!
This shows the importance of regularly checking and maintaining backup/contingency equipment
As a radio operator (not ATC), you can test and maintain backup equipment all you want. There are some malfunctions that you only find while it’s in operation. Mostly environmental problems.
Example: I’m a radio dispatcher for an event first aid organization. We had set up a radio network to communicate with our people for an upcoming event. Everything worked perfectly during testing. When the event started two days later, we could barely make out anything our people in the field were saying. Turned out, the transponders the motocross was using, interfered with our radios. Interference like that will only be found while the equipment is in operation.
Sometimes a one of two degree deviation of the antenna can mess up communications with units that are more than a couple of yards from your antenna.
It's the same in IT. Say you make backups butt don't test them - when you need them they are screwed. If you have an alternative that gets you to the resolution then you're good :)
@@amberflokstra88 absolutely agree, some environmental factors can always affect performance. In your case that's just unfortunate and rotten luck. In my unit we have multiple backup transmitters and receivers and they are tested weekly, sometimes a particular set may have degraded due to weather conditions (mostly ice build up) or something else like lack of sufficient power.
The weekly checks more often than not lead to the discovery of equipment not being 100% in order.
@@amberflokstra88 That just sounds like crap coordination w/crap equipment, tbh.
@@oiseauvert_ in The Netherlands we have something that’s called “share frequencies.” That means anyone with a radio permit for these share frequencies is free to use them (the permit is called “portofoon mobilofoon tijdelijk” or “handheld and land based radio temporary” which means they have to be renewed yearly in stead of granted for a longer period of time) . As long as they follow the rules and regulations that come with that permit. It’s nearly impossible to be granted dedicated frequencies here. So, it just happened that we chose the same frequency as the motocross organization.
And coordinations around this would be awesome, if the organizers understood that frequency and channel are two completely different things. A channel is the name or number you give to a frequency. Ands it’s completely arbitrary. So frequency 143.460mhz can be called channel 1 for us while it’s channel 10 for another organization. And a CTCSS code programmed over the frequency just means your equipment doesn’t react to anyone transmitting on the same frequency without that CTCSS code. But interference would still happen, because you can’t have two transmissions on the same frequency at the exact same time (it makes both transmissions garbled).
It has nothing to do with crappy equipment or being a crappy organization. And if you had any experience with radio communications (and its pitfalls) you would have realized that.
It sounds like the alternate site could not be heard by aircraft whose COM antennas were not tall enough when they were in position. Because a United in position couldn't hear and the Spirit had to relay. Then once the Spirit was in position they could not hear and that had to be relayed to them by the United Heavy. However, the United Heavy (likely something like a 787) could hear when they were in position. What a mess.
Generally, commercial jest fly so high that comm ants work better on the bottom. No idea why the alt tower setup looked like.
I wonder why they don't do evacuation drills. Otherwise they would have known about the radio issue and it would have been fixed and they also would be aware how long it takes to move to the alt location.
It's very common, perhaps universal, that US FAA ATC towers have a contingency plan to evacuate the tower to an alternate location on the airport and attempt to continue providing service using an extremely cumbersome, battery-operated radio that amounts to a handheld. The first time I heard this, I could not believe that anyone was serious about the idea. It's complete hero fantasy. Then I found out that almost ALL towers in the US have this same plan! No one is checking whether these sites have adequate reception using that radio. All it serves to do is introduce confusion and create chaos during the already EXTREMELY chaotic situation when a tower needs to be evacuated. Utterly absurd thinking on the part of FAA management.
@@lightoff6 There's nothing wrong with a contingency plan itself. The problem is when you have a contingency plan, but never do drills to find out if it really works.
Id thought communication and crisis protocols would have been renewed after 9/11 @lightoff6
"uh... I think he went around" 7:00 lol
I am able to hear VASAviation if anyone in the comment section needs a relay.
Please relay to FAA Possible ATC missmanagement: my tax dollars spent on redundant backups were missmanaged. I have a youtube link to VAS when you're ready to copy.
@@ice_fly_alex lol
are you ready to copy the link?
Possible UA-cam deviation, i have a number for him to copy when ready 😂
Six Sierra Papa, please advise Victor Alpha Sierra that his effort is much appreciated and the line maintenance crew advise satis. Sierra Kilo Niner Zero One.
I was one of two controllers working in the tower at Spitit of St louis airport in Missouri in 1968 when an earthquake struck. Ironically the aircraft taxing did not feel it because their suspension systems absorbed the shaking. Initally it was like a very strong gust of wind had hit the tower but when objects began falling off the consoles and the tower began an violently swaying from side to side I realized it was an earthquake and looked at the other controller and said," Dick I think this is an earthquake" at which point he yelled, "Earthquake!" in a loud voice dropped his microphone and ran for the stairs repeatedly yelling "Earthquake" as he ran down the steps. My only thought was remembering what had happened to the tower in Anchorage Alaska during that quake and realized evacuating might be worse than staying so I grabbed the console and took a wide stance as though I were on a boat in rough seas. The other controller, Richard Rabco, continued to yell all of the way down the steps, no elevator then. The shaking stopped and everything that was loose was now on the floor. I leaned out the tower fire escape hatch a told Richard it was over. He would not comeback up and did not until he was told the tower was structually sound. Don't remember what the number scale was but it was quite a ride!
United 2404 has the deepest voice I have ever heard in a captain
Sexy
California pilots are like "4.8 whats the big deal? Lets go"
Exactly. I didn’t even get out of bed 🛌 bless it was at least a 6. After growing up there I grew to get a feel for what it was gonna be.
There were in fact M4.2 and M4.4 quakes, followed by five aftershocks in Northern California on Thursday.
Sounds like Cascadia's getting ready to snap with that EQ swarm that hit NorCal. So I wouldn't be mocking this too much.
I was in the 1989 Loma prieta 7.1 earthquake. 4.8? No sweat! 😆
They use portable radios that don’t have the power and the antenna. It’s always a show
Holy CRAP! When the sh-t hits the fan, those airline pilots roll up their sleeves and GET DOWN to doin what they do!
Absolutely amazing!🛫🛫🛫👍
Rare movement....
A united a/c doing a medevac... inbound from msy
Likely a organ delivery. If so it would be given a very very high priority.
A situation like this really stresses the importance of a warm site ready for immediate use. As an IT Systems Administrator I am very happy to see the quick changeover being performed and would love for my manglement to appreciate the concept as well.
Lol manglement
That’s the coolest way to describe miss-management I’ve ever heard!🤣👍🇨🇦
@@christopherbernhardt Not sure if that was a typo or deliberate. I think that it's actually funnier if it's one of those freudian typos
@@LadyLithias lol. Nah manglement is part of my everyday vernacular.
@@aland7236 Kudos to you, it's GREAT
1:14 "Barry white enters the chatroom"🧔🏿♀️
😆😂🤣
Or buffalo bill
Great teamwork with relays! For those who don't know why this 4.8 is such a big deal, it is because East Coast quakes can cause more pronounced shaking than quakes on the West Coast due to underlying rock being much much older, harder and more dense with less faulting to absorb energy. Energy is transmitted MUCH better through the old east coast rock. These quakes are felt at greater distances as well.
And the buildings are made of plasterboard, drywall and with glass fiber insulation.
A bit of a learning experience is involved. They need to work on the backup tower systems.
Three videos in one day - very impressive, and thank you! I could just watch this story on the news, but this really tells the story.
Kudos to all a job well done
Except the FAA management for not having run a test of backup site. Some manageer really flubbed on the promise to the taxpayer to have redundant backup sites.
Wow you're quick!
Another video was released 2 hours after the incident. Go check that out if you haven't yet.
I was listening to the Port Authority Police scanner on 9/11, and it went dead when the second plane hit the towers. The radio traffic was much like this for a minute while they switched over to the backup transmitters.
I'm from California so I basically stir my tea with any quake under 5.0
Seriously you probably don’t even stop doing dishes😅
Please, here in Chile we sleep through it
Imagine those pencil skyscraper billionaire towers in NYC that sway so much in the wind that the building makes creaking sounds. It must have been horrifying to be up in there.
My Shiba Inu doesn't get concerned till it hits M7.0/5+.
My Shiba Inu doesn't get concerned till it hits M7.0/5+.
Wow, bravo. So many professionals hacking away at and overcoming problems arising from a completely surprising situation. It's hearing moments like this that reinforce my feeling of safety as an air passenger. Thank you VAS.
Not sure how id feel about a relayed T/O clearance. Remember that game in school where the first person would whisper a message, and it would keep going until the last person said a completely bastardized version of the original message. Lots of room for error there.
Chinese telephone
When tower is down they become a big uncontrolled airport. Happened at Midway during covid. Everyone departed uncontrolled.
@@mikemarshall9470But that’s uncontrolled where everyone is watching out for themselves by default, whereas this is still “controlled.” I’m not a pilot or controller, but can definitely see how this would make people uncomfortable or hesitant.
Remember that the originating station can hear what is being transmitted and will very quicky advise of an error in relay - Its actually not that hard when you are in the environment as you quickly adapt. At mega thousands of bucks a minute, movement of any kind is better than waiting around
@@ChicagoMel23 It used to just be called Telephone.
If that earthquake happened out here in SoCal, I'd doubt anyone would’ve noticed. 😅
Yep, they would have kept rolling as just another day.
And if tower went off line, pilots would have just started treated the field as uncontrolled airport ops. and calling our their own positions.
I've been in a 5 here in Toronto Ontario back in 2010 Odd feeling for sure. We all just went cool, and went back to work.
Everyday event in Cali.
Your shi’z built for it.
Right, and 3 days of rain anywhere else would not be headline news either.
For those who want info. The Earthquake was a 4.8 and the epicenter was located in Tewkbury NJ and Lebanon NJ with an aftershock taking place next to Bedminster NJ.
Thank you for this. I know it’s a ton of work. I had a hat tip from twitter/x that it wasn’t a cut and dry experience. Thank you again
Not a flawless switchover, but all in all being back within 30 minutes is impressive. Also impressive: the speed at which you put out those videos!
Great job putting all of this together Victor 👍🏻
Teamwork at its finest!
Thanks Victor for another awesome video! This really shows a side of ATC that we really get to see. I hope you publish the videos of the other New York Airports!
Teamwork!! Love to see it! 🙂
I can’t wait for Juan Browne to couple up with this great ATC coverage by also one of THEE best, VAS Aviation!
We all KNOW Juan will be all over it!💕
damn good professionalism from the flight crews stepping in to relay on behalf of the back up tower.
Once again as always I echo the NY area controllers are the best. They deal with so much traffic (I seem to remember seeing a stat somewhere that 70% of all airborne traffic on a given day passes through NY controlled airspace). They just roll with it and get down to the business of keeping traffic separated. I also wanna give the pilots a bravo as well. Roll with it, relay messages and go go go. Bravo all involved.
I love this channel! need more....
Great work! From VAS, the controllers and air crew!
I'm impressed. A controller that didn't leave his post until relieved. Various people stepping up to keep a half dead radio net going. Diversions happening before they became emergencies. Departures departing.
This could have gone a lot worse
I'm seeing a lot of comments poking fun at New York for their little Earthquake, and while it is interesting to see how the other side of the country deals with what happens to Cali on a regular bases, just a reminder, a 4.8 magnitude in New York does not feel the same as a 4.8 in SoCal due to the different soil composition. Basically, East Coast rocks formed hundreds of millions of years before rocks on the West Coast and thus, had time to cool off and settle. So when an earthquake happens there, it's more like the ground shattering and is felt across greater distances, whereas in Cali, it would feel like a soft rumble in the sand only felt one county away.
No room for incompetence on a day like that, and none was shown. Pay everyone more bucks.
Money isn't the problem. Managerial competancy and staffing is the issue. HR is too focused on Biden's DEI metrics than making sure there's someone on staff dedicated to maintaining emergency failover equipment. Seems like they never checked this system out.
Ah, yes, aging equipment and staffing shortages that have plagued this industry for years, it's all Biden's fault. 🙄
Pilots will start saving the CVR to use it to apply for ATC pay.
As a Master Business Continuity professional I’m glad they had a contingency plan and that someone activated continuity operations after recognizing an earthquake occurred. I hope they will do an after action review to capture lessons learned and improve. From the outside it appears some testing of equipment and possibly additional training may be helpful. Proud of all the ATC professionals who worked through this unusual event.
4.8 !!! I was in a 6.3 in Japan in 2013 - the hotel swayed and shook for about 3 minutes and nobody was bothered .
Millions of dollars spent...and no one has a $200 handheld VHF?
Was the tower damaged or was this just a precaution?
(Do we have any ATC in Taiwan's 7.2M earthquake?)
I read it was changed to 7.7
@@recoveringsoul755 From Taiwan's official report
It is 7.2M_L
Interesting how they always change or adjust the numbers@@kblueleaf
@@recoveringsoul755 Initial reports only use preliminary data from at most a few monitoring stations. It takes time to fully analyze all of the collected data from every affected monitoring station and make a final assessment on the scale.
I felt it when i was outside
Is it normal to have this issues when switching to alternate tower? I would have thought they would have a much smoother failover plan
I live by a stone quarry here in illinois. Wed need a minute to know if it was a quake or blasting again lol
Minor earthquake and Newark falls apart. They can learn a few things from Alaska. Earthquakes are frequent. Only the 2019 7.1 quake had the tower evacuate for a short time. Pull that audio.
You have that audio. Search for it
Does anyone remember when Anchorage (PANC) got hit with a 7+ in 2019(?). I don't recall TWR/ATC being a major issue or anything like this.
Tower is shaken… we’re going to take a quick break…. brb…
I have many questions.
Is the alternate tower an actual tower, or more like a bomb shelter?
If it’s an actual tower, how is evacuating to it going to help? If it’s stronger built than the main tower, why don’t they just use the strongest one normally? And/or why isn’t the main one strongly built then?
Isn’t the point of a tower to be able to look out over the airport and runways, for safety? If the other tower is lower, wouldn’t it be less safe, and safety would be more important in a situation like this?
If a tower built of concrete and sitting permanently on the ground isn’t able to handle an earthquake, what about the little three legged tin cans with wings sitting on the taxiways holding short? Did the pilots not notice anything? Were they sure the planes didn’t sustain damage?
On top of the haywire from the earthquake itself and the closing of runways for sweeping, and all the other airports closing at the same time causing many aircraft to potentially lose too much fuel, the decision was to spend even more time evacuating the tower after the earthquake already finished, and set up a lot of radio gear causing communication problems when the most important (or, only) task of atc is to communicate? I get that there can be afterquakes, but those are smaller than the main earthquake, so the damage would already have been done.
if you had watched the video they mentioned the "United Ramp" I'm guessing that's where the "alternate tower" is set up
Omg it was a 4.5 for a few seconds. Evacuation? 😂
I can see why, if even a small one was felt. They could have worried it was a foreshock for a bigger one. Also, I don't believe buildings on the east coast are as 'earthquake-proofed' as other areas, so if there was a bigger one coming, it's probably not fun to sit in a big 320-foot concrete tower. lol
@@GreatCdn59 I don't think foreshocks are a real thing. Certainly not for New York.
As a native New Yorker, earthquakes are very very uncommon. Our buildings weren't made with them in mind - as with all things in aviation, better safe than sorry
@@GreatCdn59I think that’s more of a deciding factor.. riding out a quake on the ground is one thing, sitting in a 320ft tower built by the lowest bidder is another. The epicenter was really close to 78 which runs right by EWR.
It’s pretty interesting to note the differences in how airports handled this situation. There was a little confusion at LaGuardia it seems but nothing that comes close to this gong show.
Japan ATC: That's a Tuesday for us.
TWR had to change a tube on the backup. 😂😂
desperate times, having Spirit clear planes for takeoffs
Wow just flew out of JFK the day before, with a connection, glad I missed it
And later that day there was a magnitude 4.0 one as well!
This was a little quake imagine a real world situation. This is unbelievable comms. We are freaking screwed if something like 9/11 happens again.
If there is an earthquake within 300 miles they shut down the airport
So, if an earthquake happens all airports close for the day
is 3 by 3 an FAA standard? i'm only familiar with 5 by 5 scale. i mean it works and i never know when to use 2 or 4 XD
In 1995 New York started to require that all buildings be constructed to modern seismic standards.
LAX: _... Was that me, or was that you?_
Anyone know what the Medivac United callsign is/means?
They needed to divert, communications were impossible in remote tower, after 9/11 i thought a remote airport would be like main tower with everything they needed, they need to use remote tower more so staff get used to it, it could be handy if that tower is near remote runways to have two people in there normally to monitor issues
You need to change your keyboard
Is United 2404 in witness protection?
EWR TWR will have to do some improvements after this whole story with earthquake.
This is very interesting didn’t know they evacuated the tower must’ve been a big earthquake spirit clearing the United heavy that’s hilarious
I'm not sure that it's a good idea to relay t/o clearance. Just imagine if someone crazy started to pass clearances usong his own radiostation
It was amazing how much faster a well-trained group of criminals was able to set up a backup control center complete with perfect communications from a small church near Dulles in 1990. 😅
Why was the tower evacuated? I know there was an earthquake, but was there something wrong with the structure?
Just a normal day on Vatsim, wait that's real world? 😛
Half a day and no one's blamed the earthquake on DEI? People are start to slip on their self-appointed responsibilities
We got people in the comments blaming the radio problems on DEI and Biden, so don’t worry, the self-appointed are riding their Shetlands hard as ever.
Ran extremely smoothly under the circumstances. Earthquakes aren't exactly commonplace on the american east coast.
I heard the earthquake was centered in the state of New Jersey. Was there more than one?
There were a few aftershocks
Several aftershocks so far, but most not perceptible. The biggest of the aftershocks was a 4.0; that one I felt from 45 or 50 miles away just like the original quake, though weaker and shorter.
Just one in the morning and a smaller aftershock in the evening
It was centered in New Jersey, where Newark Liberty is located. But I hear it was felt far and wide.
@@toemblem I'm on the west coast but it's pretty unusual for east coasters.
I wonder if the big one sent shock waves that triggered something?
Earthquake happened in Jersey. FYI
So a relay is okay for take off? Seems like you would have to hear clear instructions from ATC directly.
Pilots giving pilots takeoff clearance. That's safe.
I grew up with earthquakes in Southern California, I can't imagine New Yorkers' immediate response to one
Sounds like Cali's turn is coming soon, along with the rest of the Left Coast.
They just need some Mexico City controllers' advices on earthquake operations handling. Not saying it was bad, but in Mexico we are really used to this so we have learned something over time.
Sooooooo...had they not checked the backup tower equipment in awhile? Thank God for that pilot relaying information. That was a seriously bad radio issue.
🤯
the circle is complete. when i left you, i was but the pilot. now i am the ATC.
Us Californians are laughing. I was in a 7.1 earthquake in 1989. 4.8 is just a little bump. 😆
Our little bump was given a VII (very strong) intensity rating by the USGS. We have very different geology over here, and it's much better at transmitting seismic waves. I've experienced two CA quakes in the 5s, and was here in PA for the Virginia 5.8, and this was by far the worst of all of them. I thought a tractor trailer had crashed into my house.
I'm sure it felt strong, but compared to what we feel often out here, it's not a big deal to us. The 5.8 you experienced is almost a 6.0. That makes sense why it felt strong. Try 7.1! I watched the ground literally rock and roll like ocean waves!
We get many rated VII earthquakes out here, but the Loma Prieta earthquake I'm talking about was rated at IX VIOLENT by the USGS. Buildings made for earthquakes collapsed, double decker freeways collapsed killing many people, liquefaction caused buildings to collapse and start fires, quake retrofitted homes were thrown off their foundations, a section of the Bay bridge collapsed, airport runways were damaged, etc.. Unless you've experienced an earthquake like this, a 4.8 might seem a big deal, but to me I'd probably sleep through it. lol The movie LA Story with Steve Martin has a scene at a restaurant during an earthquake and that quite demonstrates how most Californians view them. It's hilarious!!! But honestly I'd take an earthquake any given day over a tornado! No way Jose!
@@lbcarrington4601 USGS has peak Modified Mercali rating for this quake at 6.4. At the location of Newark Airport, the MMI is 3.8
Just checking, here we go.
Man I understand the massive volume they get in this airspace but it seems extremely risky to be departing planes in an already chaotic airspace. Not even to mention RELAYING TAKEOFF CLEARANCES. Imagine an incursion happens. Much better to wait.
United medivac?
I was near the epicenter in Chile for the 8.8. My cat does not even get out bed for less than a 7.0 anymore. Under 5.0, you might not even feel it. It is like a strong gust of wind. No one is in danger, untill they over reacted.
wow, I hope they don't get any federal funding
Die Hard 2 vibes
The EWR controller has the most interesting accent. Can anyone place it?
I noticed that, too. Couldn't place it. Possibly Canadian, but I'm still very unsure.
As someone who doesn't experience earthquakes, is 4,8 a lot? I mean I understand that over 7 take down buildings, but what does 4,8 do?
no, it's not a lot, it's a small magnitude but I guess they wanted to be cautious.
It depends on the soil/rock composition where it happened. 4.8 on the US East Coast is different than 4.8 on the West Coast because of soil composition. Also the buildings on the East Coast historically were not designed and built with earthquakes in mind because they are so rare here. EWR tower is far less prepared for this type of thing than, say, SFO tower is. Our infrastructure is designed more around severe weather (hurricanes, etc).
2:48 You don’t just casually say "cleared for takeoff" just like that 😂😂 "takeoff clearance" suits better, perhaps?
Shawtly? How long is that?
Wasn't the earthquake only a 4.8? Did they really have to evacuate the Control Tower for that? How?
In NY they don't build with earthquakes in mind, the way they do in CA. They probably wanted to inspect the building as a precaution, just like they swept the runways.
Would you stay in a 320ft concrete tower built by the lowest bidder😂, especially in NJ… home of the Sopranos?
Good reason to not be in towers, just have skinny towers with sensors on. Good cameras are better than our eyes today. More pleasant too, no sun in your eyes.
WhaaaAAT?!
An Earthquake in New York/New Jersey?!
East coast pansies. I was a controller in SoCal during the '94 Northridge 6.7 earthquake (80x bigger than a 4.8) and we all kept right on working without running away to some secondary location. True it was about 5am but things were pretty busy because that's when a lot of cargo jets would launch.
calm down
Yeah but you also get half an inch of rain and the city shuts down