Former Leader at Josh Howerton’s Church Speaks Out
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
- Hundreds of people have recently left Lakepointe Church - Josh Howerton’s prominent megachurch in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. Now a longtime volunteer leader who recently exited the church is speaking out.
After 11 years doing ministry at Lakepointe, patterns of church celebrity culture, top-down leadership, and spiritual abuse led Amanda and her family to leave their church home, as she recounts in this revealing podcast.
This program was also released as an audio podcast and transcript on June 13, 2024:
julieroys.com/podcast/former-...
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I am 55 minutes in and I am weeping over what this precious family and countless others have endured at the hands of this pastor and the church oversight. I hardly have words. Just grief and sadness for those so deeply wounded, and for those like Josh who have denigrated the sacred pulpit, and veered off of the true Gospel, Jesus' life of power and compassion, crucified, risen and coming again.
As a female leader, bible teacher, and home church minister, I don't dare darken the doors of any church that forbids women in any facet of ministry.
Amen, sadly these churches and pastors are woefully ignorant.
I wouldn’t equate abuse and misogyny with churches who believe they are following the biblical requirements for the pastorate.
@paulacoyle5685 absolutely agree. There are some wonderful biblical leaders who do not subscribe to female leadership. They are not all abusive by any means.
You should be very proud of yourself, very proud.
@@StandUp777 You missed my point, you sound proud., very proud.
Thanks for sharing. Sadly church has become a SHOW and the congregants are being abused. The question I have is how on earth did Josh get picked as a successor?
The Lord is cleaning out his house right now that has become a very toxic and abusive, I pray that people will cling on to Jesus Christ, receive healing and join a small healthy home church.
Regarding the picking of Josh, that was also a question I had. Clearly, Pastor Steve did not have the level of discernment necessary, even if he was great about everything else.
The seeker sensitive model has proven to be a market driven or Pastor is master type church . People have been trying to expose this seeker driven / vision casting draconian business model church for decades now.
Abuse in churches is as old as Satan is. So glad that the Internet helps bring it to forefront to the masses. 2024 is the year that God is exposing toxic pastors and cult churches.
Really, the Lord is cleaning out his house right now? I see these churches thriving and some later crashing (then rebuilding their brand elsewhere) all over the place and it looks very man- made - from relational emotional and spiritually immature people.
Thank you and your guest for speaking truth!
Great podcast, Julie. Thank you for keeping eyes on these things.
I'm a returning missionary and so I've been watching various commentaries on American culture and where the Church is headed. Recently, I have been reading 1 Samuel where the Israelities rejected God and asked for a king so that they could be like the world. The USA has done the same thing. They rejected God’s pattern for the church whereby small group of believers would encourage each other and develop interdependence and shifted towards a business model. But unlike corporations which have checks and balances such as functioning HR departments and government oversight, Megachurches are still using the relationship model found in Scripture. They do this so that they are not accountable. If they really did want to follow the Bible they would stop being a megachurch, create smaller congregations and empower everyone to serve as it states in Ephesians 4:11-12.
I don't care for mega churches. But in the book of Acts, there was a church that grew to have 3,000. But these were souls being saved, and God was adding to that church daily.
Thank you so much for an informative and helpful interview. Thank you Amanda!
You left out some important context about Josh's "apology," namely:
1) He explicitly didn't apologize to anybody outside his church "family" (which runs completely counter to I Timothy 3 and shows an utter lack of concern for female visitors).
2) His "apology" was immediately preceeded by him boasting about how many people attended the Easter services, which he described as "[Great] Awakening stuff."
3) His apology included thanks to the "hundreds and hundreds" of people who defended him online.
The message of all of this: Female visitors don't matter to him as much as male visitors, the people within the congregation who were offended were a small minority and should accept his apology, and because his ministry is drawing huge crowds, opposing him is tantamount to opposing the Holy Spirit. This is classic spiritual abuse.
Great interview & sorry that your guest had such an unbiblical/disrespectful unrepentant pastoral experience. I’m very thankful that she continues to love & serve Christ. Looking forward to your next video 🇨🇦 ❤
I’m sorry too, and I’m afraid far too many people equate that with male headship, which is absolutely not what the Bible teaches about male headship in the church. And women are just as capable of being abusive and coercive. Just look at some of the TBN churches led by pastor couples or women pastors.
Josh Howerton is a perfect example of what Jesus stated about bad fruit. You will know them by their fruit. What Josh is, is nothing more then an imposter posing as a pastor. He’s nothing more than a used car sales man or a peddler of snake oil. It’s time as a church to stop looking at outside or how much charisma they have, and start looking at character.
Josh is a puppet. He copies what he think the church want to hear to make him popular. It's nothing new. Many of these young pastor do this! That's why we should be CALLED!
Well, they all think they’ve been called. And they point to big numbers as evidence.
People have been trying to warn against seek sensitive/purpose driven/market driven / Pastor as CEO, or whatever you want to call it Church growth movement philosophy for decades. When church becomes all about numbers it’s very obvious who is going to get left out and run over. The Mars Hill bus is just one of many that run over so many welling Christians.
Being in a small church down the road we have met many who have left Lakepoint. We have some that still go on the Saturday night and they come to us on Sunday. As a future pastor it should be a lesson on the sensitivity of women's issues that when we speak we have to do it in understanding that many have been traumatized. Although not the case with Lakepoint the irony is in most churches it's the men's ministries that are suffering the most. I think women are way more active and social than men. In your smaller churches your lucky to have a men's breakfast much less any kind of discipleship program. Praying for everyone who is hurting.
Truth! In my church experience… smaller churches, that is… contrary to Hybels’ statement, the general sentiment was that if you reach the women, the men will come. Same thing with kids. Often the parents start coming if the kids get plugged into church, frequently through Vacation Bible School.
This was so very well done. Amanda has a very tender spirit. God bless her faithfulness.
By their fruit we will know them. Matthew 7:15-23
What I heard is a perfect plan was executed. 'Enemy Inside The Gates' style. Trevor Louden doc.
Joke is the moral equivalent of abusive alcoholic husband apology who says to wife 'I love you, but... when you... I just get so mad. If you'd ... Because I love you. Forgive me?'
(Anyone check their 501(c)3 tax returns? Free Covid money was funneled into millions of churches. Simple audit. Just a thot) 🙏🏻❤️
The particular podcast was triggering for me. I’ve been a Christian for most of my life and have experienced many things in church life. I had a wonderful counselor who helped me work through many things. I’m now 69 and will celebrate my 50th wedding anniversary in the fall.
The pastor’s comment on the wedding night was what was triggering for me. Well, before that was too, because I certainly didn’t start dreaming about a wedding at a young age, so to imply that the wedding was the bride’s forte and the night was the groom’s was just plain gross. What a way to start a marriage! But what was triggering was the total lack of understanding of what a woman wants on her her wedding night. And if she doesn’t get it and there isn’t an honest, caring discussion the next day, a syndrome can set in that spells pain and misery for both people for months and/or years to come. Our marriage suffered because it took a long time before we were able to have the frank discussion that should have happened before the wedding. Eventually, my husband and I were mature enough to have the necessary conversations that dealt with emotional intimacy which can be so absent when the attitude this Pastor in this podcast had is prevalent in the church. We worked through our issues and have a healthy marriage, but honestly, I felt angry by what he said. I found it so much more triggering than the Mike Bickle podcast. I’m very thankful that there are wise people out there who are calling out that type of dysfunction so the people getting married today don’t carry that attitude into their marriages.
I think a lot of people who haven’t gone through such experiences (Josh might be one) probably wouldn’t find it as triggering and would just roll their eyes because he’s joking about stereotypes and we all know that stereotypes do not necessarily hold much water. to me, it felt like he was making light of the stereotypes that many people suggest are true, but didn’t intend to be taken seriously. But plagiarizing an apology is pretty lame.
Howerton is very clearly a very immature man.
Excellent interview
The Church is in a very sad state. No longer the Church of Jesus Christ, but the Church of the celebrity pastor. The message from the pulpit is often not even Biblical. The Gospel is watered down to fit the culture. It has to be entertaining. Robes and dress clothes have been replaced by old jeans, t-shirts and sneakers. Choreography is a plus. The music is so loud that ear plugs are necessary. Hymns are shelved. Elders want to protect "the brand" rather than the TRUTH. Look around..the MEGA CHURCH may be the worst thing to happen to the Body of Christ. So much unrepentant sin from leaders who have forgotten they represent an Humble Savior...whose main focus is power and money rather than Him. Accountability is missing when these churches become so large that elders can no longer shepherd. The True Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. An arena full of truly unconverted people is just a bunch of numbers going for a "feel good" experience. So SAD!
Soooo well put. 👍
Well said! The "church" in America is unrecognizable from the persecuted (but growing) group of believers on the fringes of first century society. Well did Sam Pascoe say: "Christianity started out in Palestine as a fellowship; it moved to Greece and became a philosophy; it moved to Italy and became an institution; it moved to Europe and became a culture; it came to America and became an enterprise.”
Some of this is reasonable. That robes have been changed for other clothes is an obsolete point. Jesus never told us to wear expensive set-apart clothes. In fact he said the opposite. And as for a group of unconverted people being in church.... Is that not what it's supposed to be for, unbelievers to be able to come in? Think carefully before declaring everything unbiblical.
@KJ-lb4tj Not an obsolete point for many. My point here is saying when you are preaching and teaching in the House of the Lord, perhaps not looking like you've been mowing the lawn or working in your garage! This does not mean your robe or clothing has to be ostentatious or expensive. It is a matter of respect. When I speak of the unconverted, I am talking about the fact that numbers are not always the best way to judge. If they are just being entertained, not taught Biblical lessons (the Gospel) and not shepherded by qualified elders, their faith will never be strong. It is necessary for people to know how to build their house on The Rock and not on the sand. .Of course, the main focus for All people is to convert them to the love of Jesus Christ and disciple them in their journey. PERIOD.
It's like this in smaller churches too. I'm pentecostal and we want to be in a pentecostal church. But they have fallen into all the things you just described. Watered down sermons. Or teachings that are not Biblical. When we became Christians over 40 yrs ago, it wasn't like this. We don't know what to do?😢
Let’s just be plain and truthful here….this is NOT a pastor …..it’s a Sham! Sad, sad, sad, sad….nothing to do with Jesus.
shouldn't church be about Jesus! Focus on him! Change is always occurring we all know this. I'm just seeing to much self
Hm. @23:00 my old church did the same. After c*vid, it was loud, over the top.
I don’t disagree with covering Taylor Swift’s lower half, I also have had my daughters in a Christian dance teacher’s dance classes and they wore skirts, not just straight leotards. I would be careful not to condemn every thing he said as evidence of his wrongdoing. Sometimes even jerks can say things that are correct that we don’t particularly like. as a model, you should be aware of imagery and body shaming like you said. He was not shaming her body. He was pointing out that it was scantily clothed. Body shaming would be making fun of somebody for their looks or their weight or medical problems or whatever. I’m sure you know this. He could have handled it better clearly. Explaining why a woman should dress modestly is not body shaming, but he basically did a verbal slap, which was not compassionate at all and didn’t explain anything. I know many girls who do not understand as they are growing up because they (thankfully) have no experience in this area. There is a way to do it that demonstrates a reverence for sex and the human body and he clearly did not. But going to the opposite extreme where women can’t be criticized at all for what they choose to wear is also not a solution that honors the human body.
He does seem like a very chaotic leader, who is basically smashing around with a sledgehammer to destroy what was already there and demonstrating that he has any idea what he is trying to build . it’s very ADHD and selfish and inconsiderate of real people’s needs and feelings.
You seem to acknowledge that there is a connotation connected to tailgating, but you also don’t seem to acknowledge that there is a connotation connected with Taylor Swift’s choice of clothing or lack thereof.
Also wouldn’t broadcasting a professional sports game to the church be a violation of licensing rights?
Why is nobody talking about Robert Morris?
ua-cam.com/video/ZOOhWWj5AqI/v-deo.htmlsi=OzbWGPpNJ-h1-bKv
Robert Morris has been the headline all week…..pray for Gateway and pray for the church as a whole.
Are you kidding???
@@ivanasimic2072not clicking on the link but sure hope its not to Justin Peters video. His was awful. Absolutely disgusting. It's so obvious he's in it for the money..
If Josh has no shame in his choices of words, then his behaviors follow. No shame. His words and behaviors don't represent Jesus loving the bride. He has no support from heaven as a representative of the Trinity on earth.
Regarding the wedding night joke, I am curious though whether anyone thinks the phenomenon of bridezilla is an actual problem. Because it really is.
1:06:55 the mirror thing I said exactly what the point was the minute she described it, the law is a curb, a mirror and a guide, it’s showing us our sin. And then she said that’s what it was about. Now, if you hadn’t heard that before, it’s just evidence that you haven’t been taught scripture for a long time at that church. I don’t know if it just started with Josh or whether it was with Steve as well.
I’m not a fan of the sensitive model even from your rudimentary description of the mirror video I knew what they were getting at.
Minute 48:40-SO SICK! What in the world is he doing teaching anyone anything????? Oh my goodness. All of it was awful but it gets worse the more he speaks. -🤢🤮🤢
Another narcissist in the pulpit..
WNBA nuff said
This is a pure mess!
I'm wondering if all this masochistic preaching isn't a push back on the woke feminist agenda. Both are of the flesh and unbalanced. The truth of the Word in all its fullness and wisdom is God’s plan and people are hungry for freedom and a true love walk with God and people. 😢
Regardless to what others may think Josh Howerton is a awesome Pastor and loves everyone with his Christlike heart. Shame on you for the slander.
This video was pointless, imo.
Where does the Bible say to do this publically? Where does the Bible say to call out another Christian publically? Where does the Bible say to gossip behind another person's back? How are you spreading the truth?
by exposing predators and liars. Great job Julie Roys!!
It spreads the truth by telling people how the church and their pastors operate. If I'm looking for another church to attend, information about plagiarism is really useful for me. Then I can decide if I'm ok with plagiarism or not.
lol it actually does. See 1 Timothy 5:19-20. “Those guilty of sin must be rebuked before all” in reference to leaders. Matt. 18 is for personal, private interactions. If you’re in a public office, you should be publicly exposed because it affects…the public. As for “gossip,” putting out a video isn’t saying anything behind anyone’s back, quite the opposite. Every book in the New Testament warns about or calls out false teachers. If God considers it that important then we should too, because ultimately following a wolf or a lie means people aren’t hearing the true gospel message.
Read the New Testament. Jesus called out the Pharisees, Paul called out False teachers and people causing strife in pretty much every letter. John in his letters did the same. Living in the area and having other witnesses confirm what she say's yes she is spreading the truth. Every bit of what she say's is true.
Please stop! That joke been going around for a long time. There are other things to be scared adn worried about. The other things she mention are of more concern than this joke. It was evil and harsh, but nothing new!