Where the Bishop has taken me to is that we must get “The Great Mystery” out of religion. Need pay attention to 200 years of critical Christian scholarship and Laws of Nature “Great Mystery” created. Faith needs doubt not piety
Bruh, I am an Agnostic Atheist, but I could listen to him teach. He is comfortable with questioning and I love that and being honest with his answers and I love that. He makes a thoughtful argument. I wish I could have conversations with him.
When I was eight years old, I asked a question of my Sunday school teacher - If Adam and Eve were perfect, they wouldn't have eaten from the Tree of Knowledge. They couldn't have been tempted. ??? I was told it was a sin to ask questions like that about the Bible. Maybe so, but I kept asking myself questions, but kept them to myself.
It’s interesting how much most people desire to deviate from scripture because it says things we don’t want to hear. Although, after encountering these truths we are forever effected. I’ve learned very early to allow scripture to define scripture. Have you ever considered that your definition of perfect may be different from what scripture describes? And does scripture even suggest that Adam and Eve were perfect? Believe it or not, our creator has give us the ability to make choices and most definitely informed choices. His creation has all the faculties needed for critical thinking. Just as you were well on your way in experiencing, at an early age. Context is so important, but anything stated out of context can be very difficult to truly grasp or understand. So with regards to the word perfect, read Matthew 5:43-48, and see if it may help put this term in a proper biblical perspective. On a side note, I’m not saying my perspective can not be wrong, but that’s not a worthy enough cause not to share what I believe may help.
with dimash's gift of music you see about 20 years of work with his natural gifting . with spong and his reflection and studying ,we get about 60 or more years of reflection etc etc . i consider myself very fortunate to have his take to help shape my view or a new way to consider my walk. and he sure makes sense to me and satisfies more than most my intellectual take og the christian god story
“Do not murder UNLESS I tell someone to tell you to slaughter the Canaanites - women and children included.” Doesn’t flush up,at all. The Holy Spirit or whatever you call or don’t label this infinite love so beyond concept is precisely what words cannot begin to explain via institutional guilt and rescripted verses. “In the beginning was the word...” Had we understood a word is a unit of speech perhaps we would have used them exceedingly sparingly.
I love his insights. I was a religious person many years ago, and though I have departed from any kind of religious faith/belief, I still leave an open door because I just can't say for sure that there's no god/gods out there somewhere. TBH, I hope there's at atleast one and I hope, he/she/it is good!
God bless you my beloved. the moment I want through my comment I saw a revelation concerning you, your family and things around you. my dear, I saw God favour, success, joy, breakthrough. behind that I saw more spiritual attacks, from the enemies working on holding such blessings, causing your set back, but you are lefted above any spiritual tower. so the Lord is instructing you to sow a seed of faith into to a motherless babies home.(orphanage) this is going to be a covenant seed between you and God. the Lord ask me to tell you before the end of,3 three days, you should try as much as possible to sow the seed the into godstime motherless babies home (orphanage) located in somewhere in Nigeria to bring spiritual and divine breakthrough in your life and that of your family because there is power in sowing of seed contact the (orphanage) home management or you can also WhatsApp them on this numbers,+2348025125218 if you are through with this let me know, so I will give you guide line on how you should pray God bless you...
@forest gump Isaiah 45: 6-7 says: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil. I the lord ((( DO ALL THESE THINGS ))) Why THEN would God have a reason for also creating a Hell for evil-doers when it is God that creates all things?
@forest gump No, that is a contradiction. That is like punishing another for your own creation and that is not JUSTice but UNjust. Given a choice and then punished for choosing is not RIGHTous but Psycho.
@forest gump If the Bible were truly only Elohim's words and not also man-made religions then the Bible would be the only book Humans must swear by in the Court of LAW.
What brought me to break away from church and rejecting faith is that I do feel deeply that church dogma is inherently anti-human. Finding this vid on youtube is interesting.
God bless you my beloved. the moment I want through my comment I saw a revelation concerning you, your family and things around you. my dear, I saw God favour, success, joy, breakthrough. behind that I saw more spiritual attacks, from the enemies working on holding such blessings, causing your set back, but you are lefted above any spiritual tower. so the Lord is instructing you to sow a seed of faith into to a motherless babies home.(orphanage) this is going to be a covenant seed between you and God. the Lord ask me to tell you before the end of,3 three days, you should try as much as possible to sow the seed the into godstime motherless babies home (orphanage) located in somewhere in Nigeria to bring spiritual and divine breakthrough in your life and that of your family because there is power in sowing of seed contact the (orphanage) home management or you can also WhatsApp them on this numbers,+2348025125218 if you are through with this let me know, so I will give you guide line on how you should pray God bless you
No I’m not a troll Promise didn’t the bible teach you that cursing is a sin. Cursing him will not make the truth go away. He is speaking the truth. You are so use to traditional Christian bullshit that you can’t handle the truth.
God bless you my beloved. the moment I want through my comment I saw a revelation concerning you, your family and things around you. my dear, I saw God favour, success, joy, breakthrough. behind that I saw more spiritual attacks, from the enemies working on holding such blessings, causing your set back, but you are lefted above any spiritual tower. so the Lord is instructing you to sow a seed of faith into to a motherless babies home.(orphanage) this is going to be a covenant seed between you and God. the Lord ask me to tell you before the end of,3 three days, you should try as much as possible to sow the seed the into godstime motherless babies home (orphanage) located in somewhere in Nigeria to bring spiritual and divine breakthrough in your life and that of your family because there is power in sowing of seed contact the (orphanage) home management or you can also WhatsApp them on this numbers,+2348025125218 if you are through with this let me know, so I will give you guide line on how you should pray God bless you
The problem with Spongs ministry is that he does not tell the listener how to decipher which sentences in the Bible to take "literally." For instance, consider Luke 10:27 "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind." Mr. Spong, is this just another piece of scripture that we aren't supposed to take literally? I can ascertain that, that one seems like we should, and I think you would say the same, so please make that clear to the listener or reader as to which scriptures a person should be a fundamentalist about and which scriptures should not be taken literally (such as the story of Jonah and the big fish...)
you need to take responsibility for that your self. Use some reasoning. Taking the bible literally is what you do when you are to lazy and irresponsible and lack any type of logicmentation.
The Bishop has set down the right path but its up to you to free your mind and determine whether or not to follow it. He will not and he cannot define who god is for you. Once you determine that for yourself then you can decide which lines to take literally. The bible tells us to look within ourselves to find god because thats where he/she resides. With that in mind, i take love your god with all your heart, soul, and mind very literally because its telling me to love myself that deeply!!
Brokenstring21, that’s a fair question but no one but you can discern the difference. Thomas Jefferson had a sensible way of doing it. He deleted with his razor all passages based on supernatural “miracles” in the NT because they defy the reality of physics and the principles (laws) of the universe - like walking on water, or the physical resurrection of dead people (there are many resurrections in the NT) and then the ascension because physical bodies can’t soar through the clouds hundreds of miles into the universe without going into orbit around the sun at 186,000 miles per second. Jefferson deleted all passages claiming supernatural authority as though a god can speak words to favorite people, etc. He deleted vocal revelation, and miracle healings. He deleted all passages that actually require superstition to practice. His outcome is in the Library of Congress, called The Jefferson Bible. So maybe start where a reasonable, logical mind like Jefferson began, and simply apply your best logic to discern the difference between 1st century religious superstition and propaganda, as opposed to deeper wisdom and teachings.
There really is not a problem here. Since he's not a literalist he's not going to break down every single sentence of the Bible in that way. You have rationally decided for yourself to take that sentence literally. That makes your decision all the more powerful rather than just taking it literally because someone in a collar told you too.
cuz its the only way xian sheeple will listen. and to be fair its not bashing the larger bdsm affinity groups which are mostly consensual. More like bdsm-rape(meaning to take with force)
While I respect the Bishop's views, I can't help thinking that he is crediting scripture with far too much. It surprises me that an Anglican Bishop does not understand that Christianity is FAR more than its texts.
As a nonbeliever, I find Bishop Spong's lectures thoughtful, insightful, and moving. I listen to them frequently.
Where the Bishop has taken me to is that we must get “The Great Mystery” out of religion. Need pay attention to 200 years of critical Christian scholarship and Laws of Nature “Great Mystery” created. Faith needs doubt not piety
People need to hear that the Bible does not do justice to the idea of a loving God.
Hello somebody...
Bruh, I am an Agnostic Atheist, but I could listen to him teach. He is comfortable with questioning and I love that and being honest with his answers and I love that. He makes a thoughtful argument. I wish I could have conversations with him.
Finally, someone worth listening to.
He just gets better and better. This is his best and most inspiring sermon I've seen on UA-cam.
more than agree with this . we need our dissenters
@@flatoutt1 One of my favorite pastors, now deceased, referred fondly to Bishop Spong as "my favorite heretic."
Beautiful teaching ❤❤❤❤. Thank you! Listening in 2023!
Awesome. Some powerful concepts here.
Outstanding message from an outstanding man.
He was a great preacher. He is making me question what I believe, and it's helping to see things more clearly.
He is an honest priest. There should be more of him
sidgdansk you’re an extremist. He knows the Bible more than you
The best way to control people is by controlling their minds and religion does a very good job of that.
When I was eight years old, I asked a question of my Sunday school teacher - If Adam and Eve were perfect, they wouldn't have eaten from the Tree of Knowledge. They couldn't have been tempted. ??? I was told it was a sin to ask questions like that about the Bible. Maybe so, but I kept asking myself questions, but kept them to myself.
Are u still keeping your questions to yourself?
I hope not. You should not afraid to challenge DOGMA.
It’s interesting how much most people desire to deviate from scripture because it says things we don’t want to hear. Although, after encountering these truths we are forever effected. I’ve learned very early to allow scripture to define scripture. Have you ever considered that your definition of perfect may be different from what scripture describes? And does scripture even suggest that Adam and Eve were perfect? Believe it or not, our creator has give us the ability to make choices and most definitely informed choices. His creation has all the faculties needed for critical thinking. Just as you were well on your way in experiencing, at an early age. Context is so important, but anything stated out of context can be very difficult to truly grasp or understand. So with regards to the word perfect, read Matthew 5:43-48, and see if it may help put this term in a proper biblical perspective.
On a side note, I’m not saying my perspective can not be wrong, but that’s not a worthy enough cause not to share what I believe may help.
with dimash's gift of music you see about 20 years of work with his natural gifting . with spong and his reflection and studying ,we get about 60 or more years of reflection etc etc . i consider myself very fortunate to have his take to help shape my view or a new way to consider my walk. and he sure makes sense to me and satisfies more than most my intellectual take og the christian god story
“Do not murder UNLESS I tell someone to tell you to slaughter the Canaanites - women and children included.” Doesn’t flush up,at all. The Holy Spirit or whatever you call or don’t label this infinite love so beyond concept is precisely what words cannot begin to explain via institutional guilt and rescripted verses. “In the beginning was the word...” Had we understood a word is a unit of speech perhaps we would have used them exceedingly sparingly.
I love his insights. I was a religious person many years ago, and though I have departed from any kind of religious faith/belief, I still leave an open door because I just can't say for sure that there's no god/gods out there somewhere. TBH, I hope there's at atleast one and I hope, he/she/it is good!
Why do you need God?
@@holulu777 I don't know. Maybe because I still have some baggage from my previous faith that's why I said I hope.
@@AkoSiFrance I used to be religious myself but I broke free 30+ years ago. It is all CHILDHOOD indoctrination.
God bless you my beloved. the moment I want through my comment I saw a revelation concerning you, your family and things around you. my dear, I saw God favour, success, joy, breakthrough. behind that I saw more spiritual attacks, from the enemies working on holding such blessings, causing your set back, but you are lefted above any spiritual tower. so the Lord is instructing you to sow a seed of faith into to a motherless babies home.(orphanage) this is going to be a covenant seed between you and God. the Lord ask me to tell you before the end of,3 three days, you should try as much as possible to sow the seed the into godstime motherless babies home (orphanage) located in somewhere in Nigeria to bring spiritual and divine breakthrough in your life and that of your family because there is power in sowing of seed contact the (orphanage) home management or you can also WhatsApp them on this numbers,+2348025125218 if you are through with this let me know, so I will give you guide line on how you should pray God bless you...
Ive noticed Bishop Spong says every publisher names the book.
beautiful message
ExcaliburHead X amen
Beautiful
One of my few regrets in life is I never got a chance to see John Shelby Spong speak in person. I’ve always wanted to go see him at Chataqua.
Daniel S amen brother
@forest gump Isaiah 45: 6-7 says: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil. I the lord ((( DO ALL THESE THINGS ))) Why THEN would God have a reason for also creating a Hell for evil-doers when it is God that creates all things?
@forest gump No, that is a contradiction.
That is like punishing another for your own creation and that is not JUSTice but UNjust. Given a choice and then punished for choosing is not RIGHTous but Psycho.
My way or the HIGHWAY is not a given CHOICE but is a FORCED condition.
@forest gump If the Bible were truly only Elohim's words and not also man-made religions then the Bible would be the only book Humans must swear by in the Court of LAW.
not religious myself, but that was profound
What brought me to break away from church and rejecting faith is that I do feel deeply that church dogma is inherently anti-human. Finding this vid on youtube is interesting.
God bless you my beloved. the moment I want through my comment I saw a revelation concerning you, your family and things around you. my dear, I saw God favour, success, joy, breakthrough. behind that I saw more spiritual attacks, from the enemies working on holding such blessings, causing your set back, but you are lefted above any spiritual tower. so the Lord is instructing you to sow a seed of faith into to a motherless babies home.(orphanage) this is going to be a covenant seed between you and God. the Lord ask me to tell you before the end of,3 three days, you should try as much as possible to sow the seed the into godstime motherless babies home (orphanage) located in somewhere in Nigeria to bring spiritual and divine breakthrough in your life and that of your family because there is power in sowing of seed contact the (orphanage) home management or you can also WhatsApp them on this numbers,+2348025125218 if you are through with this let me know, so I will give you guide line on how you should pray God bless you
Love this man so much RIP
I believe he is not dead yet...
he ain't dead yet ')
And you are a sleep walker. Hell he is kind..He makes a better god than the jack ass god of abraham. Now that guy was a real asshole.
@Eruj Jgt
He's still alive.
No I’m not a troll Promise didn’t the bible teach you that cursing is a sin. Cursing him will not make the truth go away. He is speaking the truth. You are so use to traditional Christian bullshit that you can’t handle the truth.
We sometimes call it identity politics
What could be more tribal than that?
God bless you my beloved. the moment I want through my comment I saw a revelation concerning you, your family and things around you. my dear, I saw God favour, success, joy, breakthrough. behind that I saw more spiritual attacks, from the enemies working on holding such blessings, causing your set back, but you are lefted above any spiritual tower. so the Lord is instructing you to sow a seed of faith into to a motherless babies home.(orphanage) this is going to be a covenant seed between you and God. the Lord ask me to tell you before the end of,3 three days, you should try as much as possible to sow the seed the into godstime motherless babies home (orphanage) located in somewhere in Nigeria to bring spiritual and divine breakthrough in your life and that of your family because there is power in sowing of seed contact the (orphanage) home management or you can also WhatsApp them on this numbers,+2348025125218 if you are through with this let me know, so I will give you guide line on how you should pray God bless you
Bishop John Shelby is a great human - but Aramaic faiths cannot compete with eastern religions today - fact.
At last i'm listening to logic!!!
So basically what I got from this is that god is the force
I think 🤔 I clicked on the wrong video... history?? I’m trying to grow not get more damaged
The problem with Spongs ministry is that he does not tell the listener how to decipher which sentences in the Bible to take "literally." For instance, consider Luke 10:27 "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind." Mr. Spong, is this just another piece of scripture that we aren't supposed to take literally? I can ascertain that, that one seems like we should, and I think you would say the same, so please make that clear to the listener or reader as to which scriptures a person should be a fundamentalist about and which scriptures should not be taken literally (such as the story of Jonah and the big fish...)
you need to take responsibility for that your self. Use some reasoning. Taking the bible literally is what you do when you are to lazy and irresponsible and lack any type of logicmentation.
@@alankuntz6494 erroneous Alan!
The Bishop has set down the right path but its up to you to free your mind and determine whether or not to follow it. He will not and he cannot define who god is for you. Once you determine that for yourself then you can decide which lines to take literally. The bible tells us to look within ourselves to find god because thats where he/she resides. With that in mind, i take love your god with all your heart, soul, and mind very literally because its telling me to love myself that deeply!!
Brokenstring21, that’s a fair question but no one but you can discern the difference. Thomas Jefferson had a sensible way of doing it. He deleted with his razor all passages based on supernatural “miracles” in the NT because they defy the reality of physics and the principles (laws) of the universe - like walking on water, or the physical resurrection of dead people (there are many resurrections in the NT) and then the ascension because physical bodies can’t soar through the clouds hundreds of miles into the universe without going into orbit around the sun at 186,000 miles per second. Jefferson deleted all passages claiming supernatural authority as though a god can speak words to favorite people, etc. He deleted vocal revelation, and miracle healings. He deleted all passages that actually require superstition to practice. His outcome is in the Library of Congress, called The Jefferson Bible. So maybe start where a reasonable, logical mind like Jefferson began, and simply apply your best logic to discern the difference between 1st century religious superstition and propaganda, as opposed to deeper wisdom and teachings.
There really is not a problem here. Since he's not a literalist he's not going to break down every single sentence of the Bible in that way. You have rationally decided for yourself to take that sentence literally. That makes your decision all the more powerful rather than just taking it literally because someone in a collar told you too.
Cool dude, but why the bdsm bashing?
cuz its the only way xian sheeple will listen. and to be fair its not bashing the larger bdsm affinity groups which are mostly consensual. More like bdsm-rape(meaning to take with force)
While I respect the Bishop's views, I can't help thinking that he is crediting scripture with far too much. It surprises me that an Anglican Bishop does not understand that Christianity is FAR more than its texts.
Are you trying to exonerat the Scripture?
Scripture, Christianity & all Religions have been tools of mind control.
Oh stop being a drama queen. And, quite frankly, human beings need controls for their minds - as you have just demonstrated.