In regard to Scotland if they are allowed back into the EU ,they are off and running. Better from a economic, social point of view than see being on the English titanic.
Not for the very intelligent, enterprising young it's not. Whom, I fear, we may lose a great many of, to the EU, over the coming years if Brexit continues to make things as bad for that demographic as it appears to be doing...
As an observer from America, I believe I can tell you what pushed Brexit over the line in the final analysis. It’s obvious. The UK population was told that if they voted for Brexit in the referendum, their decision would be honored by the government. They did that and then arrogant elites did everything they could to renege on the deal. It didn’t matter to them that democracy had spoken, in a very direct fashion, and that they as the governing class had made a promise to the ordinary people to honor their wishes. I watched panel discussions on Brexit after the referendum on the BBC where not one Leaver was present. How many times did some well-educated professor, journalist, or PM tell an audience of ordinary people that they didn’t know what they voting for and that it was a mistake to hold the referendum in the first place? Insulting people is no way to change their peoples’ minds. If anything, they only become more entrenched. One of your panelists talked about “populist” politicians as if Brexit was some sort of trick to fool the ignorant masses into voting them into office. This is truly insulting to ordinary people, whether they voted for Brexit or not. The implication is that the UK’s relationship with the EU is too complicated for the ordinary schmuck to understand and therefore only the elite should be consulted on such matters. It’s this kind of disdain for the opinion of the voter which will keep Brexit alive and kicking for years to come. By the way, you should invite a prominent Brexiteer onto your next panel. It would show respect for the opposing view and would make the discussion more interesting. - Michael Ochoa Chicago
@Stefanie thanks a bundle for your comment about the Future at the end. We have to assure that this becomes possible again for the, as you ˋve put it, next generation. et al thank you, highly interesting
Just on the french fishermen the uk has over 100 French vessels with licences to fish in the 6 mile zone,for uk fishermen it's no more than 5 in total 🤔 seems fair to me what about you I look forward to any of your replies
Which kind of proves that the EU was very effective at protecting Britain from the crap that the French government would, if given the chance, throw at us...
Not sure if you really understand UK democracy, it was the democratic majority of the UK who, in 2016 after the referendum, issued the mandate to the UK government to 'leave' so the future of the country would be in the hands of the UK public and not in the shackles of Brussels, it was not BJ or any other politician.
@@jasonkingshott2971 have you ever wondered why before Brexit campaign no Tory Party in or out of government has ever promoted referendums as a superior form of democracy, on say things like immigration or capital punishment? In fact you will find it is Tory politicians who traditionally have been the most vocal opponents of holding referendums in principle. Furthermore, it's the same Tory politicians who crow about winning the advisory only referendum in 2016 when nobody, not even themselves knew what precisely the negotiated outcome would be, who are now back to being vociferously opposed to the very idea of holding a referendum at all now that they and the electorate have some idea after two years of negotiations what their deal actually offered. Why so afraid of not winning the argument yet again?
@@christinethomas6763 You seem very confused, UK political parties, UK politicians, deals are all irrelevant, it was the democratic majority of the UK electorate who voted for and issued the 2016 mandate to the pro EU incumbent UK government to leave, for sovereignty, independence from a corrupt, anti democratic, unaccountable, protectionist, mafioso organisation run by a bunch of childish, vindictive, self serving, gravy train riding, free loading parasites. You also forget to mention people like German born British Labour MP Gisela Stuart who sat at the top table of the Leave campaign, people like Labour MPs Caroline Flint, Kate Hoey, the Labour Leave Group. Ultimately, the relationship and conversation is now between the UK electorate and it's democratically elected government.
Most British people were not aware of what the word prologue meant. If you had told them that Johnson had cancelled, sacked, shut down or ignored Parliament they would have been shocked.
Proroguing isn't what you've described it as either. If you understand the workings of parliament you will know that proroguing is a normal and regular function, which was already well overdue when it happened in 2019. I do think it was a political move though as it had been reported that Corbyn, Swinson and co were preparing to mount an ACTUAL COUP to force the Tories out and take over so they could stop Brexit. Boris simply headed them off at the pass. The Supreme Court headed up by loyal Blairitee and Remainers did their job to thwart it but I have not forgotten. The Supreme Court was a modern invention by Blair to put an American style layer over and above our DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT. There was no precedent for this before and now we could see just why it should have never been installed. It attempted to overturn a normal and lawful action by government who were acting to implement the democratic will of the British people. You need to educate yourself because your ignorance and contempt for democracy is a disgrace.
The above comment gives some indication of a deep-seated problem within British politics: the specialised language used by the political class to describe the workings of and within parliament. Still wrapped up in the mystique of an anachronistic medieval monarchy, it affords undue status and privileges to a modern day Representative of the People. More to the point it creates a huge gulf between politicians and the everyday concerns of the wider electorate whose education in such matters is frankly pretty dismal and one suspects perhaps deliberately so. Good use, for example, was made by instigators of Brexit of the concept of Sovereignty to wrest powers not only away from Brussels but UK electorate itself. Proroguing parliament just the start.
We were told that unemployment would soar - what happened, we've now got 1.2 million vacancies, more than anyone can remember. We were told that house prices would fall sharply - what happened, they all charged up. We were told that sterling would depreciate - what happened, it went the other way. We were told that the City would suffer - what happened, there are now nearly 50,000 jobs more in the City than before Brexit. We were told that the car industry would collapse, or move abroad - what happened, massive investment programs announced in the North East and Liverpool. I could go on, but I question why these arguments are continually ignored. I hear these lofty, wafty ideals being discussed all the time but are never grounded in what's actually going on.
"We were told that unemployment would soar - what happened, we've now got 1.2 million vacancies, more than anyone can remember." Vacancies many of which you now simply cannot find people to fill, and with increasing evidence daily of the deleterious economic impact of what happens when this work does not get done. "We were told that house prices would fall sharply - what happened, they all charged up." Driven, as in any area of economics, by a shortage of supply in the face of growing demand. Fewer and fewer people however are able to purchase a house at all and those who still can are competing with each other in an artificially inflated market. "We were told that sterling would depreciate - what happened, it went the other way." Simply not true, unless one is measuring trend solely against its catastrophic plummet in the 2nd quarter of 2020. At the moment its pretty stable, though still at around 75% of its status immediately prior to leaving the EU. "We were told that the City would suffer - what happened, there are now nearly 50,000 jobs more in the City than before Brexit." Financial services and insurance jobs - the ones that most people mean when they cite "The City" - dropped by 1.1% over the last year. This followed a 5% drop in the previous calendar year. A further drop is presently forecast as companies increasingly relocate major HQ ops to Europe, though this may be mitigated through re-purposing. "We were told that the car industry would collapse, or move abroad - what happened, massive investment programs announced in the North East and Liverpool." The industry saw a whopping 41% drop in sales within one year, announced only three weeks ago, and is currently second only to hospitality in terms of catastrophically shrinking productivity base. Whether the "investments" you refer to will be enough to save the industry and not just one or two firms within it is looking less likely - at least according to the SMMT's own assessment of their industry as stated only a few weeks ago. "I could go on" You could, but your desperation to be the bearer of spurious "good news" would most likely only lead to even more mendacity on your part. The UK economy has certainly shown much more resilience than many predicted in spite of pandemic and being cut off from a huge chunk of the market and labour pool on which it depended, but its performance has to be assessed honestly with regard to the massive internal adjustments now underway, very few of which will conceivably arrest its trend towards shrinkage or which bode well for the UK's ability to fund its own general welfare facilities, public or private, as time goes on. As a wiser person than either of us (Herbert Butros "Tiny Tim" Khaury) once wryly observed - "The 'glass half full' principle hardly works in one's favour if its contents are pure piss".
@@SonOfViking Are you aware that mass immigration is a Ponzi scheme to artificially inflate 'growth'? For example, the NHS - 10% BAME. The UK - 10% BAME. The NHS 'needs' immigrants to service immigrants, so we need more immigrants. If climate change is real then this notion of ever increasing 'growth' being a good thing and mass immigration only ever being positive, needs to stop. We need managed population reduction if anything and more self sufficiency. We don't need more 'diversity' either, we have plenty thanks. Including some that is actively negative. You're also ignoring the impact of Covid, I'm sure you don't when it suits though. Much of the Remainstream media hysteria had been completely overblown. Outside the big cities I don't know anyone who has had shortages of anything and maybe that's because in middle England we don't panic buy, fight over toilet rolls or believe media bullshyte. The fact is the UK economy and people have shown remarkable resilience through the double whammy of Brexit and Covid. You're just playing your global masters' games.
@@SonOfViking Jesus you are pathetic. Nothing I've said is remotely extreme or even right wing (whatever that means nowadays). But it is the truth whether you like it or not. You are no 'Son of Viking' you're just a wannabe keyboard warrior.
@@mogznwaz I've passed your message on to Jesus. He's way too nice a chap to be rude in return, I believe, but I think you can take it you're no longer invited to his upcoming birthday.
@@mogznwaz So your supportive of a moronic "wot a load of crap " comment. Well done. How supremely intellectual of you. What devastating insight and reason. 🤣🤣
So good to hear these interesting informative points of view. Thank you.
In regard to Scotland if they are allowed back into the EU ,they are off and running. Better from a economic, social point of view than see being on the English titanic.
Sorry to disappoint you but, Scotland has never been in the EU.
It's also very difficult for British citizens to work & live in the EU now.
Not for the very intelligent, enterprising young it's not.
Whom, I fear, we may lose a great many of, to the EU, over the coming years if Brexit continues to make things as bad for that demographic as it appears to be doing...
As an observer from America, I believe I can tell you what pushed Brexit over the line in the final analysis. It’s obvious. The UK population was told that if they voted for Brexit in the referendum, their decision would be honored by the government. They did that and then arrogant elites did everything they could to renege on the deal. It didn’t matter to them that democracy had spoken, in a very direct fashion, and that they as the governing class had made a promise to the ordinary people to honor their wishes. I watched panel discussions on Brexit after the referendum on the BBC where not one Leaver was present. How many times did some well-educated professor, journalist, or PM tell an audience of ordinary people that they didn’t know what they voting for and that it was a mistake to hold the referendum in the first place? Insulting people is no way to change their peoples’ minds. If anything, they only become more entrenched. One of your panelists talked about “populist” politicians as if Brexit was some sort of trick to fool the ignorant masses into voting them into office. This is truly insulting to ordinary people, whether they voted for Brexit or not. The implication is that the UK’s relationship with the EU is too complicated for the ordinary schmuck to understand and therefore only the elite should be consulted on such matters. It’s this kind of disdain for the opinion of the voter which will keep Brexit alive and kicking for years to come.
By the way, you should invite a prominent Brexiteer onto your next panel. It would show respect for the opposing view and would make the discussion more interesting.
- Michael Ochoa
Chicago
excellent, important discussion with genuinely informed, balanced insights - thank you
@Stefanie thanks a bundle for your comment about the Future at the end. We have to assure that this becomes possible again for the, as you ˋve put it, next generation.
et al thank you, highly interesting
Chaos and incompetence
we may have lots of low paid jobs what do not pay the bills but may lose them with bj, we out of the eu , we are just school rejects thick or sick
Just on the french fishermen the uk has over 100 French vessels with licences to fish in the 6 mile zone,for uk fishermen it's no more than 5 in total 🤔 seems fair to me what about you I look forward to any of your replies
Which kind of proves that the EU was very effective at protecting Britain from the crap that the French government would, if given the chance, throw at us...
You left simple , and you do not have a home market for your fish.
Even Nigel Farage said it’s failed 😂
There are so many of us so angry with BJ and we belong to lot's of groups on Facebook..
9 days later ..... multiply that by 100.
Not sure if you really understand UK democracy, it was the democratic majority of the UK who, in 2016 after the referendum, issued the mandate to the UK government to 'leave' so the future of the country would be in the hands of the UK public and not in the shackles of Brussels, it was not BJ or any other politician.
@@jasonkingshott2971 have you ever wondered why before Brexit campaign no Tory Party in or out of government has ever promoted referendums as a superior form of democracy, on say things like immigration or capital punishment? In fact you will find it is Tory politicians who traditionally have been the most vocal opponents of holding referendums in principle.
Furthermore, it's the same Tory politicians who crow about winning the advisory only referendum in 2016 when nobody, not even themselves knew what precisely the negotiated outcome would be, who are now back to being vociferously opposed to the very idea of holding a referendum at all now that they and the electorate have some idea after two years of negotiations what their deal actually offered. Why so afraid of not winning the argument yet again?
@@christinethomas6763 You seem very confused, UK political parties, UK politicians, deals are all irrelevant, it was the democratic majority of the UK electorate who voted for and issued the 2016 mandate to the pro EU incumbent UK government to leave, for sovereignty, independence from a corrupt, anti democratic, unaccountable, protectionist, mafioso organisation run by a bunch of childish, vindictive, self serving, gravy train riding, free loading parasites.
You also forget to mention people like German born British Labour MP Gisela Stuart who sat at the top table of the Leave campaign, people like Labour MPs Caroline Flint, Kate Hoey, the Labour Leave Group.
Ultimately, the relationship and conversation is now between the UK electorate and it's democratically elected government.
Most British people were not aware of what the word prologue meant. If you had told them that Johnson had cancelled, sacked, shut down or ignored Parliament they would have been shocked.
Proroguing isn't what you've described it as either. If you understand the workings of parliament you will know that proroguing is a normal and regular function, which was already well overdue when it happened in 2019. I do think it was a political move though as it had been reported that Corbyn, Swinson and co were preparing to mount an ACTUAL COUP to force the Tories out and take over so they could stop Brexit. Boris simply headed them off at the pass. The Supreme Court headed up by loyal Blairitee and Remainers did their job to thwart it but I have not forgotten. The Supreme Court was a modern invention by Blair to put an American style layer over and above our DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT. There was no precedent for this before and now we could see just why it should have never been installed. It attempted to overturn a normal and lawful action by government who were acting to implement the democratic will of the British people. You need to educate yourself because your ignorance and contempt for democracy is a disgrace.
Britain once fought a viscous war over that.
And 370 years later: it's starting to look like we're in for more civil strife if we carry on like this.
@@mogznwaz It was unlawful
The above comment gives some indication of a deep-seated problem within British politics: the specialised language used by the political class to describe the workings of and within parliament. Still wrapped up in the mystique of an anachronistic medieval monarchy, it affords undue status and privileges to a modern day Representative of the People. More to the point it creates a huge gulf between politicians and the everyday concerns of the wider electorate whose education in such matters is frankly
pretty dismal and one suspects perhaps deliberately so. Good use, for example, was made by instigators of Brexit of the concept of Sovereignty to wrest powers not only away from Brussels but UK electorate itself. Proroguing parliament just the start.
stop saying Um UM UM
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH................
We were told that unemployment would soar - what happened, we've now got 1.2 million vacancies, more than anyone can remember.
We were told that house prices would fall sharply - what happened, they all charged up.
We were told that sterling would depreciate - what happened, it went the other way.
We were told that the City would suffer - what happened, there are now nearly 50,000 jobs more in the City than before Brexit.
We were told that the car industry would collapse, or move abroad - what happened, massive investment programs announced in the North East and Liverpool.
I could go on, but I question why these arguments are continually ignored. I hear these lofty, wafty ideals being discussed all the time but are never grounded in what's actually going on.
"We were told that unemployment would soar - what happened, we've now got 1.2 million vacancies, more than anyone can remember."
Vacancies many of which you now simply cannot find people to fill, and with increasing evidence daily of the deleterious economic impact of what happens when this work does not get done.
"We were told that house prices would fall sharply - what happened, they all charged up."
Driven, as in any area of economics, by a shortage of supply in the face of growing demand. Fewer and fewer people however are able to purchase a house at all and those who still can are competing with each other in an artificially inflated market.
"We were told that sterling would depreciate - what happened, it went the other way."
Simply not true, unless one is measuring trend solely against its catastrophic plummet in the 2nd quarter of 2020. At the moment its pretty stable, though still at around 75% of its status immediately prior to leaving the EU.
"We were told that the City would suffer - what happened, there are now nearly 50,000 jobs more in the City than before Brexit."
Financial services and insurance jobs - the ones that most people mean when they cite "The City" - dropped by 1.1% over the last year. This followed a 5% drop in the previous calendar year. A further drop is presently forecast as companies increasingly relocate major HQ ops to Europe, though this may be mitigated through re-purposing.
"We were told that the car industry would collapse, or move abroad - what happened, massive investment programs announced in the North East and Liverpool."
The industry saw a whopping 41% drop in sales within one year, announced only three weeks ago, and is currently second only to hospitality in terms of catastrophically shrinking productivity base. Whether the "investments" you refer to will be enough to save the industry and not just one or two firms within it is looking less likely - at least according to the SMMT's own assessment of their industry as stated only a few weeks ago.
"I could go on"
You could, but your desperation to be the bearer of spurious "good news" would most likely only lead to even more mendacity on your part. The UK economy has certainly shown much more resilience than many predicted in spite of pandemic and being cut off from a huge chunk of the market and labour pool on which it depended, but its performance has to be assessed honestly with regard to the massive internal adjustments now underway, very few of which will conceivably arrest its trend towards shrinkage or which bode well for the UK's ability to fund its own general welfare facilities, public or private, as time goes on. As a wiser person than either of us (Herbert Butros "Tiny Tim" Khaury) once wryly observed - "The 'glass half full' principle hardly works in one's favour if its contents are pure piss".
@@SonOfViking Are you aware that mass immigration is a Ponzi scheme to artificially inflate 'growth'? For example, the NHS - 10% BAME. The UK - 10% BAME. The NHS 'needs' immigrants to service immigrants, so we need more immigrants. If climate change is real then this notion of ever increasing 'growth' being a good thing and mass immigration only ever being positive, needs to stop. We need managed population reduction if anything and more self sufficiency. We don't need more 'diversity' either, we have plenty thanks. Including some that is actively negative. You're also ignoring the impact of Covid, I'm sure you don't when it suits though. Much of the Remainstream media hysteria had been completely overblown. Outside the big cities I don't know anyone who has had shortages of anything and maybe that's because in middle England we don't panic buy, fight over toilet rolls or believe media bullshyte. The fact is the UK economy and people have shown remarkable resilience through the double whammy of Brexit and Covid. You're just playing your global masters' games.
@@mogznwaz If you're in "middle England" than may Beelzebub please save us from those to your right!!!!
@@SonOfViking Jesus you are pathetic. Nothing I've said is remotely extreme or even right wing (whatever that means nowadays). But it is the truth whether you like it or not. You are no 'Son of Viking' you're just a wannabe keyboard warrior.
@@mogznwaz I've passed your message on to Jesus. He's way too nice a chap to be rude in return, I believe, but I think you can take it you're no longer invited to his upcoming birthday.
wot a load of crap
We do not have your level of knowledge on the matters discussed here, obviously. Could you please elaborate on your views?
Please, don't elaborate anything, but listen to Vera Lynn.....
@@haraldbjthunem4059 Your patronising tone is indicative of your lazy elitist thinking.
Wot a load of crap.
See - Im not än elitist.
@@mogznwaz So your supportive of a moronic "wot a load of crap " comment. Well done. How supremely intellectual of you. What devastating insight and reason. 🤣🤣