ye - Carnival (and the 'can we separate art from artist' discussion[answer: well, SOMETIMES...])
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- Опубліковано 15 кві 2024
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Do u enjoy carti’s new style? Specifically the deep voice
My honest opinion on the things he said and did I don't think I Kanye is a hateful person I think he had the mentality of what would Jesus do so basically love everyone and he went about it in a really poor way and yea he does need to be on some medication or maybe therapy HOWEVER he did go through some actual injustice and I have proof ua-cam.com/users/shorts_Qvy3llqr_g?
si=MjsmMgX04NQaBWyJ I think Kanye is just
very very misunderstood also I literally got into Kanye after all this drama and the first song I heard by him bittersweet poetry made me break down into tears Kanye transcends music into art which is very uncommon
I think it's dumb to avoid ALL movies produced by Weinstein as a lot of the times his company would buy up already completed movies and as a result actors who were against working with Harvey even back then ended up with their already finished movies being released under the name of his company whether they liked it or not so boycotting ALL movies with his name on them isn't really helping the actors any.
Separating art from artist is only valid if the art and artist are separate. Kanye and people like him put their shit IN the art, there's no separating them.
This is why I don’t feel bad listening to pre Jan 6th Ariel Pink. He’s never been the nicest guy even before his trump era but it never really effected the music. Like you could read into some of it but no one listens to round and round without context and come to the conclusion that it was made by a trumpster.
I actively avoid Kanye at all costs even if it means covering my ears in public. When you listen to him, not only are you condoning anti-semitism, you’re condoning every single injustice in the world. If listening to music by someone who says he loves Hitler is okay to you, then so are all other forms of bigotry, corruption, and child abuse. I wish I was exaggerating.
yeah it's easier to do with the Harry Potter books as they came out long before JKR got on her TERF nonsense and there's not really any of that kinda stuff in the books.
@@johnhelhoski6579I'm sorry to say but you are exaggerating. If you really cover your ears everytime you hear Kanye then that man is controlling your life, get help
@@jacksonteller3973 but people still want you to boycott hp. There was a huge controversy
Remember when Logic said ye made him wish he was bipolar? Right now, Logic's probably going "wtf was I thinking?"
Logic doesn't have a single song close to half as good as the worst Ye song
@@jaysemitchells497 Yes he does, No Pressure is a great album and waaaaay better than Vultures 1.
Logic has a lot of bars where he wasn't thinking.
@@jaysemitchells497 Even Keanu Reeves is better than this shit.
He probably should’ve thought that even back then
I remember reading in a RYM list on artists with SA allegations that Kanye behaves like someone who knows that he's gonna be outed for SA any second and that's all I hear in that last verse Jesus christ man
Can you send the link?
@nassiemartinez4399 I tried to dig for it but the list isn't up anymore 😕
"Now I'm Puff Daddy rich!"
Naw, that's too convenient. Ye knew.
He literally says "Thats me too me rich" right after
Doesn’t Ye also say “[Diddy] has his hand up Meek’s ass like a ventriloquist.”
A lot of industry people knew, 50 Cent was saying it for awhile before
A lot of industry people knew, they just didn’t care. The reason why this stuff is coming out now because we’re now in the sort of position of taking rape accusations seriously.
But in the 00s, the 90s, the 80s, etc: fuck that noise. Mens were mens.
@@TheSkaOreo wtf does that even mean "mens were mens?"
Kanye’s current music would be like if Harvey Weinstein was making movies about his own life directly referencing his bad behavior and constantly doing rape apologia. You can’t really separate the artist from that.
As valud of a statement as "sepearate the art from the artist" is, I feel like sometimes people end up using this argument as a way to excuse what someone did, which is not at all what it should be. Just because we enjoy an artist's music doesn't mean we should also turn a blind eye to what they did. But with Kanye in particular it feels so hard to do so because so much of his music IS him, nearly every song of his portrays some part of his life or mind in one way or another, which is where I honestly feel we shouldn't use this, when the music is directly or even subtlety connected to the person's wrongdoings.
Or people just wanna listen to good sounding music. It's not that deep. You realize plenty of people don't actually pay attention to lyrics, right? And those people don't wanna look for reasons to be offended and actively inconvenience their own lives.
@@wrongpingpong … is that the best excuse you could come up with? Just… willful ignorance?
„No officer, you can’t arrest this person for going 100 in a 30 mph zone. You realize that plenty of people don’t actually pay attention to speed limits, right? And those people don’t wanna look for reasons to be offended and actively inconvenience their own lives.“
And before you say „oh, you can’t compare speeding to listening to someone’s music“, just think deeply about who we’re talking about here.
And, like, I don’t know if you‘ve been apart of… any online discourse before, but usually the people who are the most vocal about „separating the art from the artist“, „guilty until proven innocent“, or are active practitioners in the sacred art of „accusing the opponent of every possible logical fallacy, doesn’t matter if they actually apply or not“, are also acutely aware of the given artist’s misgivings and are just using it as an excuse, to make themselves seem more righteous than they actually are. People‘ve been saying this kinda stuff since GamerGate. You should be aware of it by now
@@KeDe1606 you're comparison to a speed limit is incredibly dumb. Speed limit is a legal obligation. Had it been illegal to listen to Kanye, then yeah. Breaking that law should be punished regardless of the person's intentions. You're trying to say legal OBLIGATIONS act like morals. There are no moral obligations. All there are are people like you who want to push your own personal beliefs upon others. In OP's first sentence, he explains what he feels to be the reason for people using the "separate the art from the artist" comment. Trying to understand these people's behaviors is a psychological conversation. In my original retort to OP, I in response explained the human behavior from a psychological standpoint as well, not from a philosophical standpoint. I didn't excuse anyone's behavior (partly because I don't think there's anything to excuse in the first place). At the end of the day, people are going to continue living their lives anyway as you cry about it. So, stay mad.
@@wrongpingpong … man, every single one of you is the exact goddamn same, you know that? It’s like you have a script that you all have to adhere to, unless someone’s gonna blow your goddamn head off.
I am aware that, on the surface, those two things sound very different, but I chose that comparison for a reason. Do you want me to tell you? Like, genuinely? Because I certainly could. It’s really not that difficult. Like, at all. But I feel like you‘d just dance around it anyway, no matter what I said. I mean, that’s what you’re doing right now. Ignoring the entire point of my original comment, only to focus in on some innocuous comparison. So, I guess I’ll just leave you to it then
@@KeDe1606 wrote 2 paragraphs of nothing. Might as well just spit it out already.
Edit: ironic that you think I'm the one ignoring the point of your comment. You should really check yourself.
kanye really would've beaten the fake christian allegations had he released "carnival" the day before lent and not the day after.
Whenever people talk about Ye, I remember an old interview he gave in a German Rap magazin (basically "our Source" back then), where he said, that he wants to become the new Michael Jackson... that was the first sign of trouble for me. 20 years ago, I thought: let's hope he does not end like Michael Jackson. Insane, losing all touch to reality and completly isolated. Aside from the isolated thing, Ye is right there...
He's become the new Brian Wilson instead. Insane and lost touch with reality, but instead of being completely isolated, he's surrounded by people who are exploiting him. For Brian Wilson, it was Gene Landy, and for Kanye... well, where do we begin?
What really gets me about a song like this?
With other materialistic songs out there, it sounds like they're having fun. Like, yeah, I'm a broke boy but man does it sound like a blast to be YOU and live YOUR life.
This is a commercialism funeral dirge.
That kind of sums up modern Kanye.
@@Spanishdog17 He puts the "HIP" in Hypocritical.
that music video is fascinating. it seems to be proud of its 3D-ish effect, but... I had a lesson in after effect which showed what plugin to use to get that. it was in something like 2017, in a fairly basic AE tutorial.
also the horse at 5:27 has no background behind its head, and it feels like an easy fix they just didn't care to do.
It's obviously AI generated
A couple of takes from me: "Separate the art from the artist" is possible if the art doesn't completely reflect the artist's mindset.
.
For example "House at a Lake with Mountains" is a fine painting by a terrible person but if we see a White Supremacist whipping a Jewish person, then that'll be hard to separate.
.
As for the song Carnival, I get that he's trying to make himself sound worse and it's taken as a joke, but it does not help his situation and he comes off as a broken man who proved to us that he said some rambunctious shit, wrote a terrible-ass album and still made #1.
.
He needs help, but we as the people ain't gonna help him (as sad as that sounds), and he ain't gonna help himself.
.
.
Calling out stuff like this and not staying silent and pretending that it didn't happen is pretty meaningful when it comes to fighting antisemitism so I really appreciate that your doing this again like you did with that B.O.B song in 2016.
Lostprophets pretty much answers the question for me doesn't matter how much I like those albums there's no way
Lostprophets is a weird case. Unlike something like Kanye where all of his songs are extremely about Kanye, or R. Kelly where his songs for sex seem a lot gross now that we know he committed sex crimes. Lostprophets just made some perfectly fine pop-punk that *can* be easily separated from the artist… it’s just that what Ian Watkins did was so bad it just feels gross to hear his voice.
I skip straight to carti verse anytime i listen, just listening to that one verse is so much more satisfying to me 😭😭
That’s what I do with the Freddie Gibbs verse.
shows how low the standards are these days when a guy like that is this hyoed :(
its funny how rich keeps talking about reaching his goals, wasnt he hot for a few years before massively falling off ?? Seems a bit denial-ly doesnt it? and yeah kanyes verse just makes me feel uncomfortable. Playboi and ty killed it for me though
P.S. Keep at it Darren - we will never tire of RC reviews
People made fun of Rich a couple years back for being boring and using his same old flow. And Rich comes back using the same boring ass flow, he hasn’t improved at all. But since it’s a ye song, people love it. It’s wild
rich fell off but he had kids and he owns a label he probably did reach his goals lmao
Others have said the same thing before but, really you can only separate art from the artist if there's a genuine disconnect. It also helps if the art isn't part of the artist or said artist is dead. In Kanye's case, given how just about all of his recent stuff is basically him rapping his diary entries over a beat with occasional guest stars- there's no separation. Regardless, I agree that he needs help, like badly. Unfortunately, the only way he's gonna get help is if he actually drops off or people stop buying his shit. But that won't happen for several years or at least until something drastic happens.
It's all about HOW you listen to music. This isn't really that type of album people go to deeply analyze lyrics. If you can separate the lyrical content from the sound of the music, you can separate the art from the artist.
i thought the ye kelly line would be waiting until the worst lyrics of the year
You know earlier in his career Ye (I'll use it, I guess) was pretty good at doing the whole freestyling thing at the end of his verses where he sounded like he was just sort of riffing, but it's not as fun or interesting when his whole verse sounds like that.
It sucks because the beat of this song actually goes hard as hell, but everyone except carti phones it in on the verses, so unbelievably boring.
The milan ultras part is quite catchy, but lets be honest, kanye is fishing for a tiktok trend HARD
I feel like the beat makes the song corny ass hell.
The beat doesn’t even come close to touching the magic of early 2000s Kanye. I miss the old Kanye.
@@Spanishdog17 That's totally possible, I can't say I've listened to any of his music
I mean, yes Kanye needs help................but that super mario shit made me laugh hard enough to nearly choke
When you bring up Ye’s verse at 5:36, I honestly forget Ye had a verse to his own song. Anyone I’ve met in person that likes this song only talk about the hook and Carti’s verse lol
As someone who was a fan of Kanye as a kid god this makes me sad to hear his current music (usually through other means than looking him up), I missed his old "My Twisted Dark Fantasy" days. Back when it sounded like he put in effort instead of just being insane.
You saying something positive about Carti was a surprise
am i crazy for thinking Kanye shouldn't be allowed to raise children?
nor make them
Buddy, you're not the only one.
No, he definitely should never have had kids, and he should be kept further away from the poor souls he sired. Not that their mom is a good influence either.
@@bthsr7113 I feel bad for those kids either way.
do you mean his own, or the school, or both
Finally someone willing to say that Kanye needs help. I hope he realizes it too and regains long-term mental stability🙏🏾
Finally?
Separating the artist from the art feels like it would be an alchemical process from Alejandro Jodorowsky’s The Holy Mountain, where the alchemist turns literal excrement into gold.
If I had a nickel for every time I've learned of a story from someone associated with comics that involves poop turning to gold...
6:21 Worst Lyric of 2024 contender right there
We need the critic to talk about Kendrick vs Drake
i feel like the only time i heard this song was on tik tok when it got mashed with other (better) songs
Nice vid. Feels like you haven't done the classic "...I don't have to like your song" outro in a while.
Man even if you can justify seperating art from the artist with current day Kanye. Why the hell would you wanna listen to anything like his Vultures Vol 1 album?
Burn was good though, but then when you look back on Kanye’s career, a song like burn would be such an average song. It’s only good given everything else, all his verses being unfinished
8:10 - 8:16 had me laughing 😂
This instrumental deserved better.
Yep. This exactly. Great episode and I listened to the song right before I watched, bc I couldn't remember it, and I now realize why, bc I tried to forget it..... that's how uncomfortable this song and this man has become for me.
I'm forever gonna be bitter that "separate the art from the artist" kept getting used at a rebuttal for supporting problematic artist, divorcing it from its original context in art/literary/music analysis and criticism, which is to focus on what the work of art conveys, and not what the artist intended it to convey (or something like that).
I think, Carti, always wants to be creatively pushing himself. That’s why he’s so fun to look at, he never wants to stay stagnant.
I was already done with Ye after he put that fucking Chick-fil-A commercial in the middle of his "spiritual" album and my opinion of him has not remotely improved since. This drivel isn't helping.
Why did chick fil a get your boxers in a bunch ?
@@DigitalRag3X So, like, I’m not a particularly religious woman as an adult, but I grew up in a Southern Baptist community and I’m very familiar with a type of performative Christianity that closely links itself to that particular fast food chain.
I went into Jesus is King in good faith that it was something genuine and it did very much seem like that was being rewarded in the first half, but that song hit and I was like ‘oh, this is just a cynical attempt to add church moms to his demo.’
@@DigitalRag3X 1.) Regardless of the company, it's still commercialism ruining art,
2.) As to specific companies, do you know NOTHING about Chik-Fil-A??
It being the face of the tik tok rizz party definitely should taint its reputation.
I feel so bad for you you have done like 10 videos about Kanye
There are more than enough people trying to make it big in entertainment for us to cut out the toxic elements. And if said toxic elements can't even be bothered to make quality entertainment, they are overdue for being booted out.
Pretty much. There are so many great artists out there right now that don’t have Kanye’s baggage that I don’t see any reason to continue to fuck with him.
Especially when the music has been bad for awhile.
Wheres your verdicts on the recent disses?
I CANT BELIEVE THIS. OH MY GOD!!! I CANT BELIEVE THIS
I like that you used a voice cover in this review
Oh my god. I can’t believe this
You can acknowledge that art is good when the artist is bad, but in a day when people make money from streams, you can’t ethically consume it.
I seriously wonder if anyone who actually cares Kanye died or changed their mind about him at this point. Like, does he actually have no one that personally care him, outside of “the Kanye” name?
Seperating art from artist is easy. It only becomes difficult when the artists wishes to be their art and/or they cant keep their bs out of the artform. Or they come to a point of complete insencerity and hypocrisy and the art conflicts with the artists opinion or who they are
Or if they otherwise *can't shut the f%¤₩ up* with really damaging garbage that outweighs all their art.
I personally just think the song sounds bad. It's badly made. I would have felt the same way even of Kanye wasn't a piece of shit.
Wow i love your audience rap critic. The way i was expecting to see rabid kanye fans in the comments and there is NOTHING is really deplorable
seeing you with white hair .. wtf ... i remember when you were in your 20s...
That shit hits some of us in the 30s 🤷♂️😕
wtf are you on, he’s barely 27
@@mocapcow2933 there’s no way in hell he’s 26 bro
@@mocapcow2933 blud gotta stop stressing
@@OutSideTheBoxYT2 yeah, just practicing my gaslighting
WHY YE! WHY 😫!!!!!!!!!!
real fans wouldnt keep enabling this fuckin psyco lol
It’s really three camps:
1. Kids who don’t know better
2. Actual antisemetics who agree with anything Ye says
3. People who keep hoping Ye will make something as good as the College trilogy.
Why wasn't their any kind of backlash against Playboi Carti and Rich The Kid for collaborating with him after he said all the stuff about loving Hitler and blaming Jews for everything? Or against Travis Scott for making a big statement about how much he loves Kanye at one of his shows after it happened? Kanye got a ton of deserved criticism and hate for his extreme bigotry so I don't get why they didn't for continuing to associate with him
Why do we live, just to suffer
Unpopular opinion: I like Kanye's verse, he matches the raucous over the top loud energy of this track with the synths and football crowd chants, amps up controversial lines one by another until he literally gets cut off in the track. Plus the grand intro to his verse with Hell of a Life plays like a wrestling walk in, it's not perfect and I can easily see loads being turned off by it but it's pretty good imo
Carti's verse was fun too
However, Ye is in desperate need of help and I 100% agree he is unhealthy, he literally made a whole album called Donda years after she died, he still wants her back and he constantly is flipping out but I'm afraid unless he's in a different crowd he wont find it
Oh no he misses his mother lol he should be over her by now!
Yeah you’re gonna need a better reason than that for being against Kanye.
Would you people like or hate this song if someone else made it?
carnival is overrated asf i do not get why people like it. feels like a trashier diet off the grid. only song that was listenable from vultures was burn because it sounded like graduation era stuff. imo kanye music is mostly falling apart now donda was a mess but had good bits in it vultures was just all ass. even the carti features were mid.
all the weird jew nazi stuff was super awful too. cant even feel comfortable listening to his music no more
I feel what makes me dislike him more, is the fans gassing it up like this is anything interesting. Like this is what the modern rap climate is and wants. He’s not doing anything different like his fans claim.
I don't get the Carnival hype, it's just Mo Bamba plus Off the Grid. Vultures has some good tracks but Kanye's verses are always the worst part of each song.
@@TortoiseMaximusmo mamba + off the grid is the perfect description
Many Christians saw through what he was doing, but when they pointed it out many were called judgmental lol
At least when Dystopia happens, AND IT WILL
We won't have to listen to shit like this anymore
Ah..... A "glass half full" type of person, huh? I'll take it.
@@feenfader to get it all, you gotta lose this all.
TAKING NO SHORTS
Love the review / take on the song. I agree. Its repetitive in the most vain, unimpressive, unappealing way.
Also, sidenote; Harvey Winstein is NOT an Artist! He's just a producer ie the finance guys who give your movie enough money if he believes in it. That's it, he's just a money guy you go to for funding. He has no creative bone whatsoever. In fact, one of Kevin Smiths' movies Dogma - one of my favorite - was not being distributed because the company that published the film was none other than Weinstein, and held the rights to distribute the film. So for a while nobody could get the movie on Blu Ray or even DVD or even stream it since Harvey is selling the rights to Kevin Smith THE DIRECTOR OF HIS OWN FILM for more than he can afford.
Anyone who suggests separating art from artist fundamentally misunderstands art. Art is an expression of oneself, and can NEVER truly be separate.
I listen to Tyler the Creator despite being a bit uncomfortable about homosexuality (i dont hate, i just dont know where to stand on it), but his beats go hard
For once, an artist who legitimately needs to be put in a conservatorship... Because Jesus Christ, this man needs help and deprogramming...
Putting aside all the questionable lyrics and Rich's verse, wtf happened to Ye's flow? He sounds like a teenager pretending to be drunk to look cool to the older kids. That "I'm so gone off this Hard Mike's" type flow.
One name: Chris Benoit.
I don’t know
Kanye lost me years ago. The only thing of his that gave me any entertainment was his appearance on InfoWars, only because of the way he made Alex Jones sweat.
That separation of art from the artists was just made up by people who didn’t want feel bad about playing Michael jackson at their weddings. Art is intrinsically linked to the people who made it, if it wasn’t it wouldn’t be art.
Surprised there was no mention of the Mexican fan hyping up Kanye's verse
I'm still trying to separate Cole from that apology 😭
This one was hilarious. Love your content. I'm a day one Kanye hater too lol
6:56 ye knew about diddy and is one of the people who have the diddy target on him js
Same with jay, Beyoncé, meek, usher, and literally everyone else that’s big 💀
@@Drakeotheruler2 usher more than anyone
😔
Kanye is clearly unwell but I don’t think he’s actually rambling and having to be cut off when he’s recording music.
I find it's a good song purely for working out and the hook. Ignore the lyrics and you can pretend it wasn't intended to be shock value trolling.
Why does the beat sound like a worse Mo Bamba?
treat religion like a sports team lmao thank you bro
Wait.
Wait.
Am I nuts or is that hook the same as Prisencolinensinainciusol?
Kinda hard to separate the art from the artist when the art itself is ass. Like what is there even left to defend at this point?
Paddington is still great despite the Weinstein name slapped on it.
(He’s only credited because of the company, and Paddington escaped.)
Looking to playboi carti for rhyming ability is like going to mcdonalds for a wagyu steak
The beat is really good and goes very hard... too bad it's attached to current age Kanye though. But in all seriousness I don't think you can really separate the art from the artist. Like not only is he putting these themes into his current work but he is also making money off of it. Like as a fan of Eldritch Horror and someone who wants to make an Urban Fantasy RPG based on it and 2000's nostalgia I feel conflicted at times due to how much Eldritch Horror takes it themes from H.P Lovecraft and he he was very racist (even putting the n word into one of his monsters/entities) but like not only was what he did very influential and original but also he is very much dead so he is not making any money off of his work. Kanye on the other hand is still alive and yeah that kinda makes me not okay with listening to his current music and even his pre Alex Jones show interview too.
Speaking of "art", is that music video made using AI? Cause boy does it look like it at points.
you just sound a old head hater when majority of old school rap was like this too ,nonsense that sounds good
Big fan of all things football -including chants- and i think the hook is shite
Gotta be real chief, it's 2024. When are we gonna stop boxing in rap songs for not rhyming their consonances? I've been tired of it from the jump. Who cares, if the vowels rhyme, then it's close enough. You wanna hear the same words rhyme, for the rest of time, because ambiguous rules dictate, suppress and define? Try to control language in art, shits gonna fail by design
Kendrick Lamar… pls
This is a Live show song, but not really a song u will listen day to day. More like the song for u to jump at a live show
Except it doesn’t seem like Ye even wants to perform. When he does, it’s just listening parties now.
Also, he made a better version of this song years ago. It’s call Power and when you hear it you know it’s a same song but this carnival version is worse. How the hell people can even defend this 😂
Sigh. I fucking loved Power.
@@TheSkaOreo when that song pause the drum and Kanye start rapping on sample you know you are in for something wonderful. I remember that Kanye. 😇
Boss... you're on the money as usual. And btw, you're double right about "rhyming" a word with itself. It's lame af every time. Freaking Dizzy Rascal just did that in the opening bars of his latest hit.... Mumble rappers are ruining things on an international level now 🤦♂️
I liked the song before the generic trap drums.
Even if you separated the art from the artist Vultures is still his worst project. The lyrics are cringe-inducing (I gotta take it on the chin like Jay Leno), the beats are uninspired, and there’s no message behind the music besides “I’m a victim, I’m an oppressed millionaire.” Even Jesus is King was better.
It's just exhausting trying to have a coherent opinion on Kanye West
Why? He's a nazi.
I listen to the whole album and it made me wildly uncomfortable
Wait isn’t he married to a super model?
She's a lower tier model, her being an architect for one of his projects is how they met
Nah that bar went over everybody’s heads cuz of the shock. “Yeah I’m Bill Cosby bitch, yeah I’m Puff Daddy Rich, that’s “Me too” me rich” he’s basically saying he’s independently rich. Me-to-me rich. Plus Bill Cosby was in talks with buying a network before the allegations happened.
Then he said “I’m the new Jesus bitch, I turn water to Chris-t” like come on dude. These are actually bars!
kanye is not that stupid bro
Great work as always, my man.
In my view, the beat is phenomenal, but the lyrics are atrocious.
Still listening to him and will be listening to vultures 2
"Ye"? Nah, he's still Kanye. Only person I'll deadname.
“Head so good she an honor roll” was kinda creative tbh
Head, brain, bars have not been creative since like 2005. I haven’t heard this specific bar before, but I’m like 90% sure it has already been made.
It’s plagiarized from one of Big Sean’s wack lines “We honor roll like we did good in college.”
@@mocapcow2933 Kanye has made that exact same type of bar in the mid 2000s
Remember when we were all cool with with voting Kanye
for president. Now hes an actual fascist. Darkest timeline.