Best 308 ammo for elk? Part 1: Terminal Ascent vs Bondstrike vs Hybrid Hunter
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- I test the ballistics of the Federal Terminal Ascent, Norma Bondstrike, and the Berger Hybrid Hunter. I am shooting the 308 Winchester (Win) and testing accuracy, velocity, standard deviation, and extreme spread.
#rifles #shooting #hunting
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![[Don't Try This] Pushing the 308 Win to 300 Win Mag (Bat Machine, Alpha Munitions)](/img/n.gif)
Norma's ammo is highly underrated. Every time I try it out, I am impressed.
I agree
A lot of people forget that Norma produced ammo for years for Weatherby and their ammo was some of the best back in the day so no surprise that their ammo is such good quality!
My cousin harvested a large whitetail at 448yds using a 308 factory 175gr federal terminal ascent. Performed great with a shoulder hit with an exit on the opposite shoulder.
Good information, thanks for letting me know
Wow, you (your channel) is really improving…..
Good to see. Good job.
One of my favorites is Desert Dog.
I like Desert dog myself.
I like both bondstrike and Terminal ascent but my rifle really loves the federal trophy bonded in 180 grain worked great on elk and Bear for me.
Nice! I don’t have much experience with the trophy bonded, I need to check them out
My Winchester Model 70 Super Grade .308 just loves the 180 grain Norma Bondstrike. I shot a three shot group @ 100 yards with it last fall that was pretty much the same hole. Dead center of the bullseye. Ol Mr Whitetail is in for some serious trouble this fall. Norma makes excellent products.
That’s great. I’m a big fan of that Norma Bondstrike bullet.
I personally think 165 grain is the sweet spot for 308s as far as energy. You might want to try accubonds in 165s
I don’t doubt they would be great. Just the cost is higher. I could only spend so much money. Thanks Tom!
I like 150 & 168 grain.. Hornady black 168 grain A-max is my go to rounds in 308
@@joeyphillips1181168gr A-max are amazing deer bullets.
I used the 175 terminal but the 165 was way more accurate
I use the Accubond in both my 30-06 and 308 in the 165 grain and they just hammer deer and would be great for elk as well! I even use them in my 300wsm sometimes because they are so accurate in my guns when I handload them 🙌
Personally I would go with the bondstrike. Better spastics. I also would add a EC Tuner , so I can tune all factory loads. Another reason for the bondstrike is Norma brass is the best brass out of your group.😊
I appreciate the comment
You are spot on🙌 They made Weatherby brass for years before they started making it in house and Norma makes some of the best ammo and brass for the price! Hornaday made a some of the worst 😳 I know because after 60+ years hunting reloading and collecting and have used all the major ammo manufactures for ammo and brass! I recent got 2 boxes of Hornaday ammo and only 20 of the 40 rounds would close in my factory Browning rifle that is almost brand new and I have never had a problem with any other factory brand of ammo before! The TS ammo is fantastic but can be hard to find and a little pricey for someone on a budget
Im just a deer hunter in Mississippi. Me and my buddies have been knocking deer silly for 10+years with 150, SST's which blow up quick. 25% of the time they blow all the way through. Ive shot 165 bonded deer Thugs and they always blow through. I believe any bonded 165 would hammer elk.
I appreciate you sharing your experience
I'm absolutely loving my Hornaday 165 superformance absolutely unbelievable
Nice!
This is useful info to me. I just got a new 308 hunting rifle last week, Thanks!
I’m glad! Thanks for watching!
I used the Bondstrike on 2 whitetail bucks with great results. They were hard to find locally so I ordered enough to last for several hunting seasons. 👍
Right on. Did you recover the bullet?
@@hopefulballistics nope. One buck was at 257 yards , piled up in 30 yards. The other was at 30 yards and dropped right there.
Yeah, Bond Strike with the 308, cause the 308 is a little slower and the Bond Strike is a little softer (I guess)….
But it really comes down to speed. At what distance does a projectile slow down to its minimum and still react or have performance. The type target medium is also pretty important as well.
Of course higher velocity fight wind better.
And keeping flight time well under 1 second, is important for me.
I’d rather hit elk hard with more than what’s needed, than even with “just” enough.
I do believe a 308 can hit elk (hard) with more than enough, but I’d like to keep it short. Like under 300 yards.
Good comment, thanks
When I was a kid back in the early 60’s I saw my dad drop 4 elk with 5 shots at about 150 yards with his pre64 in 308🤔 the shot placement and the quality of the bullet matter more then about anything else! We were handloading Partitions and they made all the difference!
Terminal Ascent has a lower operating velocity...meaning it opens at lower velocity...Bond Strike is 17-1800fps. Terminal Ascent is around 1400fps
Great video! I ordered my Dad 2 packs of 270 win in Federal Terminal Ascent for Father’s day (it delivered yesterday) & I wanted to see how people reviewed these bullets… I was worried, because my Dad only likes his Winchester Ballistic Silvertip 270 win… but at $70 for a 20 pack, out of stock on the website I buy from & the Silvertips have better ballistics, but I think the TA’s upgraded technology makes it better overall… I had to get the TAs and I think he’ll find that he likes the TAs better once he knows he can actually range trip them occasionally instead of a 20 pack for the whole year because of the price…
Me though, I’m considering the 308 for my first hunting rifle to be chambered in, mostly because of availability & price, and I’m just seeing how the 308 Terminal Ascents do… 👍🏻
Awesome, I think your dad will happy with them. Availability of the 308 is really good. Great barrel life, and close to 30-06 performance is “typically” a shorter, lighter rifle.
Those look like pretty good well made known namebrands, alot better than the cup and core rounds. I've never gone after Elk but I've been in their presence in Colorado. Extremely magnificent, the 308WIN is more than sufficient. Great video👍👍
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Thank you for your time and result efforts. I like this content.
Awesome! Thank you
I agree with you and if you want more range, over 350, I would go up in caliber.
Thanks
Two years ago I was researching bullets for an elk hunt. I called ammo companies and when talking to someone at Federal he told me the Berger Hybrid Hunter wasn’t a hunting bullet. I asked why was an elk on the box and he said it again, it’s not a hunting bullet and that it fragments too much. I ended up using Terminal Ascent. Never saw an elk .
It’s relative. Can the Berger kill an elk? Guaranteed. Would it damage to much meat potentially? Probably. Would it penetrate deeply? No. Terminal Ascent would be better for Elk in my mind.
I kill plenty of animals with bergers. They what they are designed to do. Mass destruction.
You are correct Berger does not make hunting Bullets they just make different colored boxes.
Berger makes the very best target bullets but their bullets are not made for the largest of big game like elk! I know having hunted reloaded and collected rifles 60+ years and have tried their bullets on most of the big game in the states over the years and for deer they will get you by but will cause more meat damage then the others and for elk they are out of the question unless it’s more then 300 yards and we all know where that puts you😳 Into the group of unethical hunters!
I have 4 bolt action rifles of different weights & barrel lengths in 308. I find the lighter guns (7lbs 4 ounces with scope & sling loaded) show the difference between 150&180gr bullets most. The guns weighing 8 1/2lbs seem to recoil so similar with both weights of bullets that I don't notice it.
IMO the Terminal Acent bullet is the best choice due to its construction
Great comment, thanks!
Another good video good sir. I love the bond strikes in my 6.5 creed. I wish they had us for 7mm-08 in 150s that would be a game changer
Thank you!
🕵️♂️ So their are different qualities to look for in a good "elk bullet" and even looking at the same data, we might reach some different conclusions! "Simple Minded Fella" has tested All of these bullets, and more, out of his 308 and 30-06 and reached a "Slightly Different Conclusion" than me! He really like the Terminal Ascent (As do I) for "Longer Range Shots", but has picked it for it's better consistency at All ranges! I, however, choose to use the Nosler ABLR's for that specific purpose (longer shots, specifically)! Why? Because at closer ranges they will still get the job done! But, at longer ranges (watch his videos), what you will see is that the Nosler ABLR'S will dump their energy (have maximum expansion and dump their energy) starting at 6" into the gel block/elk (and extending from 6" to 18", with a 4" square wound cavity)! This "energy dump" and main wound cavity happens right in the center of the vitals (as the wound cavity extends for another foot) and has more than enough penetration at lower velocities (about 1,800 ft/s), which is still 30" out of a 30-06 (which will still result in more than enough penetration to go through an elk, collapse the lungs, and give you a good blood trail)! Is the Terminal Ascent a tougher bullet, if you hit bone? Yep, as are the Swift A-Frames, Federal Trophy Bonded Tips, and copper bullets - all which would give better penetration (which won't matter, unless you are hunting a bigger critter, like a Bison, that can get 3,500+ lbs on the hoof), but don't have as good lower velocity expansion at lower velocities and longer ranges! And, the B.C.'s of that 168 grain Nosler ABLR's (or 190 grain ABLR's, if your using the Bigger Magnums to generate the higher velocities and utilize them at longer distances) are among the best as well! 🤗 As far as an "elk hunting bullet", leave those "Frangable Target Bullets" (Burgers and ELD-X's) at home! I don't care what their "box says", they aren't a good elk hunting bullet (they loose 50% or more of their weight, expand immediately upon impact, won't penetrate through the elk, and won't dump the energy in the right spot/create a wound channel in the right place, veer off of the point of aim/impact, and sometimes even "blow up")! ☹ Nope! 🤮
I’ll check that video out. I think these new(ish) bonded bullets are the way to go, including the ablr.
Absolutely! We have Lots of GREAT CHOICES NOW! 🥳
🤠 That "Simple Minded Fella" is a Great Guy and a "Strait Shooter"! 🎯 Very Trustworthy! 👍
@@ronlowney4700 how long of shots are you recommending with the 308 on Elk?
🤔 For Me? I would say 350 yards with Any (the Best) 308 Winchester load (Max), even though the ballistics may say 400 yards for some loads! I like to give myself a little extra margin of error (a safety factor for the animal)! However, I don't yet own a 308 Winchester! I do, however, have a 30-06 and 270 Winchester that extend that range another 100 to 150 yards - providing that I am well practiced and the shooting conditions are just right! 🤷♂️
Damn i didn't think 308 was that much slower than a 6.5 creedmoor maybe i shouldn't have went with the 308
150 gen. Copper bullets in 308 are faster than any 6.5 creedmoor.
Same weight bullet and the 308 is going faster and bigger frontal area on the bullet but a little more recoil also!
Thanks for video. Bergers are great for accuracy but lots of meat damage. Glad most comments are positive. Not sure about the good gun and optics. Tactful answer. Thanks again
Thank you! I’m very impressed with these new bonded bullets.
Don't shoot meat.
I got 4 differnt types I’m gonna try with the 308 next weekend to get ready for season coming up I got the good ole 180 corelok, federal fusing 180gr tipped, federal 168 hybrid hunter and Hornady 178 eldx
Sweet!
@@hopefulballistics I bought the rifle last year didn’t get a chance to take it hunting but I did take it to the range and zero but in that time I now got a new scope need to rezero and test what the gun actually likes love this part of shooting and finding out it should be fun
ELDX is ok for cow elk but for a big old bull, I would look for a tougher bullet such as a partition or A-Frame
@@ChronicalsofAl I understand that
Bondstrikes shoot great out of my rifle. Curious what scope you have? That looked like a german post.
Meopta fixed 6.
Another great video,thanks
Thanks!
Great video, demonstrating what most people have to work with on a budget. Not everyone has 2k-5k to spend on a hunting rifle setup.
What’s the length of your barrel?
Thank you very much! 23”
The Bondstrike looks good, I'm starting to hear good things about them but they seem harder to find. I've had good results with Terminal Ascent on game - super accurate, high bc and bonded, what's not to like?
Awesome, good to hear!
Both excellent bullets🙌
What about federal trophy bonded tip 165grain???
Haven’t tried it, should be very similar to Terminal Ascent.
They are great especially for elk but a little more then needed for deer but will work great have used them off and on for years
I'm pretty sure those would work fine on whitetail especially up close
Probably correct
@@hopefulballistics I keep going back n forth between the fusion and TA. Can't make up my mind for deer season this year. Both shoot lights out. Idk Think I'm going w the fusion 150s. Just seem like a better whitetail rounds to me.
@@REDNECKROOTS both are really good
@@REDNECKROOTS either way is good
Don’t get me wrong, I like 308 but I have a handful of calibers/cartridges I’d prefer
I wish I could get my hands on some bondstrike bullets.
Me too! I’m very impressed with them
I won't touch them. They are all loaded at lower velocity than every other company in the same weights.
Sierra 165 game changer.
I like the gamekings, haven’t used the game changers yet.
Your 308 rifle likes heavier bullets for sure. Terminal performance will be interesting.
Thanks for watching
Midway has the .308 Norma Bondstrike for $23 a box
Yeah I bought 4 boxes of 30-06
There's a reason i use a 338rum for elk with 225gr Accubond.
I didn't catch the rifle brand or twist rate (apologizes If you said that and I missed it). Thanks 😊
Sporterized Mauser 98. 1 in 10 I believe
You're. 308 Win deserves a better scooe, like a 4-16×44 or 3-12×56. JMHO, good luck and stay safe!!! 😉😉😉
Thanks for the video. What is your twist rate and barrel length.
I have a 22" and 1:11 twist rate
This 308 I believe is 23” 1:10
Federal needs to offer the terminal accent in 150 grain.308. Not just 175. That should be the 3006 bullet load not .308
Yeah they need more offerings
@@hopefulballisticsyes I'd like to see this in a 130 grain and or 150 grain in 308. 175s are to heavy too slow
Might as well use a 3030 if your 308 bullet is 2500fps
BC doesn't matter under 500 yards. It doesn't matter at most practical hunting ranges. Nobody should be shooting at elk with any of these loads past 300 yards out of a .308.
It does matter. How much it matters is up to everyone own opinion. Higher bc will slow down velocity loss. It’s significant at around 300 yds and further in my opinion.
@@hopefulballistics They've been killing a lot of animals with low BC bullets past 500 yards for a long time. Even the high BC bullets need to go fast enough to perform.
No reason for anything heavier than 165gr. The 165gr SST Superfomance put elk down.
What about fusion?...... also, how many hunters - take shots past 400 yds? Most outfitters try to keep it under 300 because not many hunters are good at longer distances. They talk the talk.......
@@johnandrosemarywyatt977 Fusion is a good bullet. Every video can’t be about Fusion bullets. I’d like to get some of the new tipped fusion.
@@hopefulballistics got it. I like your video format and your logical conclusions.
Just FYI Norma bondstrike's BC is highly overrated. Several people have verified the BC though shooting to be around .530 which actually makes alot more sense compared to others in the same weight and bullet shape class.
I have not shot anything with the bondstrike, so no experience on terminal performance there, but I can verify the terminal ascent in 7mag works as it should on both elk and deer at closer ranges (both were about 110 yards). Both were complete pass throughs so no details on how the bullet held up but the would channel was as expected from a bullet that mushroomed well, stayed together, and retained enough energy to make a large exit wound.
I verified at the range that the BC listed on the terminal ascent box is accurate as when I punched the numbers in to the hornady app it got me dead on at 600, a few inches low at 750. I'd never shoot an elk at that range, but nice to know where it hits nonetheless.
Thanks for the comment
In each of your groups whether 3 shot or 5 shot there was always one good shot and the rest were flyers. It could be that just as well as 4 shots and one flyer or 2 shots and one flyer. lol
You could be right
It cracks me up how people look to much at paper numbers on how far a cartridge will kill an animal. Or the .308 just don’t have the rt ballistics to do the job. To much hype. The 308 has kill elk at 800 yards for yrs with 150 grns and other grn bullets. People just like numbers. We , my family takes deer at 500 yards regularly with a cheap 308.
All bullets are different. There is a lot more to a bullet than it’s grain weight.
@@hopefulballistics I agree with you completely, and everybody’s opinion about what is the best hunting bullet is different. Everyone has their own ideas but you are right.
I’m running the terminal ascent in my SFAR and getting MOA out to 500. My rifle likes it.
There are good choices out there just gotta figure it out as to what performs and the rifle likes.
I appreciate the comment
You need to try them at 50 yds
The burger isn’t a good bullet for elk. Hope people do their homework.
Thanks, I appreciate it
It might be 🤷🏻♂️ pretty sure it's a match round but match bullets are used for hunting & home defense all the time.. but rest assured I will do my homework before using anything 👍 I like the Hornady black 168 grain A-max and the Speer gold dots in 308
There is no way the listed BC is correct on the bond strike.
I’ve wondered about that too
If you have them, load some 168 Barnes TTSX and test those. I've had truly remarkable success with them in my 30-06 and 308. Within 250 yards I wouldn't hesitate using my 130 TTSX over TAC powder in my 308 for elk - nearly 3300fps. Having watched UA-cam videos of people dropping elk at 600 yards with a 243 and a Berger VLD bullet, and having witnessed what the 130 TTSX does already, that combo is a great choice in my opinion/experience
Cool, I appreciate the recommendation
Monolithic bullets fail to expand.
@@duckwacker8720 Not in my experience. They work very well and expand just fine as evidenced by the heart and lungs when I'm field dressing game. If your statement was accurate across the board, the hunters in Cali and any other state that prohibit lead core bullets for hunting are screwed and have been. That's simply not the case
@@duckwacker8720fail to fully expand at longer range possibly - but inside 300yds - which is the .308 sweet spot they do just fine, very fine.
Bondstrike real bc is more like .530
What are you basing this off of?
@@hopefulballistics forums from people shooting it at distance with verified velocity. They all came back to 530 for their ballistic calculators to line up. Which makes sense when you look at it beside a 178 eldx that is longer and trimmer and is .535
@@J_Un1t interesting
Where would the Remington/ Speer Impact 308 fall in this testing??
I didn’t have those bullets to test. However I just ordered some 172 grain Speer Impacts. I’m thinking about loading them in either 308, or 30-06.
@hopefulballistics I have a box of factory on the way, just to see
Remington factory with 172gr Impacts shot great from my Tikka
Cant add my pic of the paper
@@chadgavason1362 awesome!
Not a fan of the 180s in 308. I love 165ish.
That’s my preference too, or lighter.
@@hopefulballistics I plan to try out some 130 grain Barnes at 3100 ft./s
Numbers don't matter that much... you wanna do ballistics get tests to see expansion.
Disagree, all ballistic metrics are based, on large part, with muzzle velocity.
@hopefulballistics I wasn't dogging your video... it great to see real world numbers. Imo, penetration, expansion and bullet behavior matters more
Inside 300 yards a 308 is fine.outside 300 yards most hunter's would miss an elk anyway
Yeah, 308 is definitely not a long range elk cartridge imo.
Dats why u buy a scope goofy
@@mbemoneyplaya13.2.5
Beyond 325 yards you need more then just a good scope. You need 500$ of practice ammo and maybe some training or lots of self education and practice.
@@Yotacivare people hunting without that? For any distance?
Bhahahaa wrong
Should try Hornady CX or Barnes TTSX. Big believer in copper since i started using them
I think they would be outstanding for close to medium distances
@@hopefulballistics How long are your shots on elk typically? With my 130gr GMX out with my 270 win i can safely with proper expansion get to 450 meters
@@nemanjarasula1599 as long as your getting proper expansion that’s all that matters.
🤠 You've picked a fine caliber! 👍
@@hopefulballistics Would love to be able to get an elk with it one day
I’m betting terminal assent wins.
It’s a great bullet
Energy on paper does NOT equate to terminal performance! Match bullets have the highest BC but they are poor performers on game.
I don’t disagree, thanks
Tell that to all the deer I've killed with A-max and Eld-m.
a good gun and good optics should be used to get the test right. And now the rifle is crap, the optics are crap
Thanks for watching
Never underestimate an old scope and an old rifle in .308 Winchester. They will do the perfect job too. From Spain. Thanks for the video Hopeful Ballistics.
@@josedomingo7913 I appreciate your comment, thanks! Very true as well.
And yet with his old 308 and 6x fixed scope... He still can shoot much better than you.
I agree on the bondstrike.
I’m impressed by it