I don't think Blizzard is going to magically get it right after neglecting and mishandling the game for 8 years. Overwatch is the most mishandled IP in history
5v5 format doesn't work in overwatch... doesn't matter if the game is balanced, one tank will always be the best. And counterpicking can't be solved without two tanks (hero bans won't prevent this).
One tank always being the best doesn’t mean that instantly wins the game. Just like one dps player being the best, or one healer. And counter picking absolutely can be solved by balancing. Almost all characters have a counter but the majority of them don’t get actively counter swapped in match because it doesn’t make more of a difference than just playing the character you are best at. I’m miles better with Pharah than with Sombra. Even if I get double counter picked with a soldier and an Ashe, I will still absolutely do better on Pharah than I would theoretically swapping to someone who plays better against those two. I’m not against the idea of going back to 6v6, but I’m not sold that the problems with the game currently can only be resolved by going back, or that 6v6 would even be better. I say that as a split dps and tank main in diamond. And I think these problems you brought up certainly don’t just go away because we go back to 6v6. Balancing will be even more of a problem then, as it was at the start of ow2.
@@deyensi play genji once i leaved the game 250 hours only genji and now i cant play the game the same way with genji the balance is shit a assasin cant kill a support or healer because they do more dmg than a assasin
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 The Problem why it inherently doesnt work in OW is the Power Dynamic, in OW1 2 Tanks shared their power and DPS (or even some Supps) could 1v1 them if they were good. This means the Heroes were relative to each other, you had more playmaking potential because of your other Tank helping you and the enemies had more playmaking potential because your HP and Sustain was lower. With a Solo Tank, they need the power of 2 Tanks to compete and protect their team, make space, etc. this just doesnt work in OW In League of Legends which is 5v5 too, youre not bound to a "Tank" you could have a team of 5 squishy Champions and win, because the structure of the game is different (and its also very dependent of how you play in the beginning) but in OW having a Tank is a must atleast in RoleQ. Its obvious that everyone would focus the most threating, biggest and arguably most important enemy with every abilitiy they have. I disagree with the Video on trying to make 5v5 work, i think its just a lost cause, even if there is some way by changing maps, passives, hero design, etc. the game was just not build for that. Its much easier to make Tank fun again (and roles like DPS/Supp too because they dont have to shoot 800HP Raid Bosses) by going back to 6v6 and balancing from there. Im very excited to see the 6v6 Test, it should really remind people how good OW used to be, for all Roles, even if OW1 Tank had some issues with CC but that got drastically reduced with OW2 so we will see about that.
@@deyensibut that only works if at least three of your team mates are miles better than the enemy if both teams are equal in strength and strats it is down to who’s tank is better and who’s still alive to back up said tank a great tank with bad team mates is just a tank with his team at spawn and as you said all characters have a counter or two in all roles then your good tank will just get countered to no end and team will still be in spawn this is counterwatch it’s overwatch the whole point of this game when it came out was to pick a hero you like and play with them now it’s just who’s team is better at hard countering the only real way to solve this problem is to either take another member away and make it 4v4 or 6v6 and even then there will be problems such as dmg hp reductions and scaling back hp in which case maybe adding pickable buffs with equal debuffs like paladins does also adding more penalties for switching characters to fast to discourage counter picking
@@comedial6829 Over all, yes. People mainly just play who they want to and are good and not counter swap 24/7. I was in the lower ranks when it was ramped, before the shield nerfs, I ran into it maybe 3 times out of most of my competitive games and we won 2 of them because we were just plat/diamond players now OWL players. They’re not playing perfectly it was completely possible to win. Just lock in and communicate with your team in this team based shooter and you’ll win. I’ve done in multiple times and I’m sure you when too. And it was NEVER in QP. 5v5’s issues trickle down to the lowest ranks and even QP. Everyone runs into toxic comps in OW. But people act like they never beatable. I know we have all overcame a toxic comp you thought you’d lose against. Either way double shield is basically fixed now. 6v6 is a better baseline format than 5v5. Not even QP is enjoyable anymore because of 5v5 and its lopsided balance. Giga tanks on each team have proven to not be fun and be even more problematic than the small subset of people who’d experience a real double shield comp.
@@AlexTheHorriddouble shield was most definitely played in lower elos and quickplay because people just copied whatever they saw the pros do because people wanted to win. I don't think I have ever seen a community most obsessed with winning than the Overwatch community.
"I feel like i slashed through an entire dungeon, defeated the boss, and there just is no loot" THIS. This, so much. I can't stand how unrewarding the game is and it doesn't need to be, this is just greed.
Super well-made and thought-through video and your suggestions sound promising! I'll be sticking around regardless of the amount of overwatch content you decide to put out so just keep up the good vibes!
I like this alot. This is 1 of 4 well done opinion videos instead of screeching the entire time or quoting unrelated philosophers. Even though I enjoy the game there are fundamental problems with it other than just "this hero is too strong". Alot of core things are outdated and don't mesh well and I don't feel like it gets talked about enough. Maybe if we had a different more thoughtful community we would have people asking for changes that would benefit everyone instead of only receiving balance changes that do nothing or break the game. Sadly enough we have to be with uncertain devs dealing with a community that cannot agree on any issue trying to change a game with deep nuanced issues. Maybe it's just too much to ask for.
“Without giving 5v5 a fair shot”. They gave 5v5 more of a fair shot then 6v6 role lock ever did. The devs just don’t know how there game works and haphazardly swap formats because they are to incompetent to understand the fundamentals of their own game. They canned open queue because of brig and horrible role distribution. They canned role lock 6v6 because they didn’t care about support or tank. Now we are stuck in 5v5 and they refuse to accept that it’s unfixable. These devs have way too much impulsive and glaring egoistical tendencies to ever understand this game and that’s why it will never be good again.
Yeah it's like people forgot that the game was literally abandoned for 3 years and you still had active players. 6v6 is the *obvious* option and it's clear one of the primary reasons the big wigs refuse to do that is because of sunk costs and because it would become even more obvious that this game isn't a sequel but a shop update.
Brig wasn't even that bad; people don't remember that she was hated because of the Overwatch League. Not even regular people's games, the streams they watched when they weren't playing. The entire game was fundamentally altered to make the esport streams more entertaining.
@@PlatinumAltaria Nah brig on release could 1v1 Rein, could 1 Shot tracer and sustain your whole team while not even trying. Im sorry but that just isnt true. Theres a reason she got 20 nerfs back to back and was still "good" or atleast playable and even is part to blame for 2x Shield meta but Baptiste was probably worse there.
@@heiko2255 I really don't agree as someone who played her at the time. She shipped with a lot of bugs but I don't think she was anywhere near as overtuned as some of the later heroes. The main thing that's a problem with her is the AOE healing, which just needs a nerf across the board.
@@PlatinumAltaria She was the main Reason Goats was able to exist for 18 Months, she provided way too much AoE Heal which by the way has a way bigger Range than Lucio and heals more than AMPED LUCIO and you can have it up basically all the time There was a plat player who mained brig on release and he got from 2600 Plat to 4200 GM only playing her Her being one of the most Important pieces to the 2 most broken metas ever (Goats/2x Shield) shows how broken she really was
personally instead of negative passives I feel like just removing them would be great and does a good job at forcing team play. in ow1 with no passives the game revolved around diving and protecting the supports which was much more fun for everyone involved and forced teams to play together to win. giving supports self-heal was just the start of a slippery slope that made it so ow2 plays a lot more like team deathmatch in comparison.
this is by design since its a direct quote from Bobby himself that he wanted to make OW more like COD and be a dps focused liked TDM. Jeff strongly disagreed so he left.
@@Sizzylwhile I’ve never personally heard that quote in an interview I very vividly remember how owl and pumping so much money and resources into the pro scene while also ignoring the main game and significant balance issues that just didn’t make it fun to watch or to engage in at a high level was pretty much almost solely due to Bobby kotick at the time wanting to create a new cod league but with overwatch instead I don’t know the man personally but he’s very heavily disliked for good reason at best and an actual asshole and one who’s business smart but not very smart in literally any other area in life and I can only imagine he deadass assumed he reasonably COULD do just what you described and have a billion dollar ip/game franchise by the end of it instead of actually understanding the product and its audience I can only imagine in his mind every game that isn’t like cod is genuinely stupid and backwards because he’s too backwards himself to fundamentally understand what he’s engaging with that’s just my two cents though.
If blizzard was planning on turning OverWatch into a unicycle they should have done it by now, or at least started to move in that direction. It's been nearly two years of them flandering around making the current game we sit in progressively worse over time with no vision or direction. If they're going to keep OverWatch as a bicycle with no front wheel they might as well just fix the bicycle instead of saying how they're committed to making a unicycle while were riding around with no front wheel for another 5 years. That's just my opinion but good video overall.
yeah they make these characters so good. i'm obsessed with OW. The game was so good tho. I still play OW2 everyday now but it just feel off about the game. They were unpromising... the game can be way more better
5v5 is this maze... if they roll back Overwatch all the way to late 2022, 6v6, remove the new characters and maps entirely, then little by little add them back rebalanced/reworked for 6v6, that can maybe (MAYBE) save Overwatch. But I think the devs are so lazy, they will test 6v6 in a sloppy way, call it a failure and give up. We're talking about the team who released Brigitte, then gave up on balancing goats and enforced role lock, now 5v5, etc.. this is the worst case of mismanagement in videogames history, Overwatch had potential to be a super popular multimedia franchise
@@endershel8163 Yep. Luckily Marvel Rivals is right around the corner, at least half of the player base are going to jump on Rivals, Overwatch will go through a very slow and painful death while Rivals thrives. And if Valve is really working on Team Fortress 3 (wild rumors, they are working on something else besides Deadlock), oh boy, against Marvel and TF at the same time, Overwatch will be erased from existence
The Souvenirs need to be something that's interactive. Imagine when you used the Souvenir "emote" it would put your characters weapon away and they'd pull out the Souvenir and then it had its own inspect animation/voice lines and you could also turn it around to show it your teammates/enemies. That would be a billion times better than the trash we have right now.
I think they should take a page from League of Legends with teams taking turns picking heroes and bans and once its locked in thats it. Counter watch is not fun and never will be, we all want to play the heroes that bring us the most fun.
y'know what im pretty sick of seeing these overwatch dying vids because all they did was cry about literally the same topics and offered no solutions. However atleast you genuinely do a deep dive into the issues so good vid man.
@@MER17T I mean most say the solution for Gameplay is 1. 6v6 2. Less dumbing down the Game 3. Less Passives that give free value And I would agree with all 3 but doing deep dives into how someone would balance all that could make Videos 2h long As for Progression or Incentives to play, sure people who make these videos could come up with some stuff
I can't do another season, I've officially quit. Season 9 changes combined with the current rank deflation and making ranks pointless has left me no other reason to play. I play 6v6 customs or nothing.
Problem with a unicycle is that not only is it hard to balance but also easy to push over and exploit its many flaws. This is why the bicycle is far more generally enjoyed and mainstream in terms of usability. We are 2 years in, and people are still experiencing the same balancing issues with the 5v5 unicycle. Having handle bars, 2 wheels and the option of multiple seats is why the 6v6 bicycle is a better foundation for overwatch.
This and the reality that the TANKS were DESIGNED around 6v6 with TWO tanks, they could have implemented sub roles like off tank and main tank and force tank players to choose one of each to prevent shield metas etc Designing a whole system around 6v6 and then removing a key element and expecting the whole thing to just work is delusional
@@phil-lI mean the sole reason for 5v5 was to shorten q times, adding a second q doesn’t fix the issue it makes it worse. I believe the way was open to not change the formatting of the game for a single character(brig), if they nerfed her from the start we wouldn’t have to have gone to role q keeping q times short. And for everyone that argues but it was always 6 dps, that was in lower ranks and with enough game sense and mechanical skills you can bully your way out of most ranks.
@@danielalvarez1230 That's the only valid argument they've ever given for it, and even then it's blatantly an overcorrection. The queue times would have been infinitely more bearable with the game going f2p alone. Yes, they did it to shorten queue times, but they wanted to shorten queue times specifically to milk the game going f2p. Less downtime between games leads to people impulsively playing more. Now, they're using their internal statistics retroactively to justify the decision. People didn't want to play tank before because it was stale and the devs weren't reacting to community feedback, they especially don't want to play tank now because it feels miserable.
The game was literally designed to be 6v6 at it's core. To change to 5v5, it's not a matter of "adaptation" (like what they did with the entire roster), they have to rework characters entirely (if that was the case, Overwatch "2" would be a legit sequel). And it's ironic because the only character who was reworked entirely, Doomfist, he is super problematic, lol so really, this is a classic example of laziness + incompetence, the Overwatch devs had a golden goose at their hands, but they mismanaged the goose since day 1, just awful direction
Hero ban and then draft fixes literally everything about this game, but it will never happen because... reasons... 95+% of the playerbase hates counterpicking and would rather just play their favorite heroes but most end up swapping/countering because it's the only way to reliably win, not mention the constant screaming from your teammates to swap. Take that option off the table, and 90% of games would come down to skill/execution instead of matchups, and players would have to focus on themselves and actually learning matchups, instead of constantly swapping to counters and screaming at teammates to do the same. It's literally the only change that actually does anything to fix the inherent problems with 5v5
Unfortunately, Overwatch has had a multitude of setbacks. Someone at Blizzard needs to wake up and make meaningful player-driven changes to this train wreck of a game. 🥺💔
Blizzard is more concerned about preaching “the message” than the gameplay experience I play out of Miami Florida and this is horrible for me since we have no local server and my isp has huge packet loss to their server, it’s insane. But they add icons and hero’s being stuff that makes zero sense in a non-story driven game that they’re non binary or sny LGBTQIA stuff, sorry, this is irrelevant. The truth is, balance fair and fun gameplay is what we need, also more local servers, not force 40 states into Chicago server and 10 states into LA server, that’s not fair at all, we can’t control our isp touting!
You didn't enjoy when Blizzard leg sweeped the religious faithful after selling them a Statue of a Gay man in the Collectors ED and revealing it afterwards? Its not something I would do, but I admit the reddit comments were funny to read.
Glad someone, other than spilo, can give a good answer to keep 5v5 While i personally think 6v6 would be balance-wise easier too go back to vs the all the changes for 5v5 You suggested at least it's a direction that would work for an enjoyable game Like with your Bicycles analogue i imagine that the parts and the blueprint for the full Bicycle are still in the garage while the seat, some of the frame, and the handle bars are still attached for a Bicycle and not a Unicycle and they don't know what one looks like but they know it has 1 wheel With the Unicycle looking like an unfinished Bicycle most of the suggestions are how to make a Bicycle instead of a Unicycle
at this point, even with the tank patch, i've stopped queing tank at all. since quickplay is so sweaty, it feels like i can never play dps (my worse role) since people can get so fucking toxic, or someone who actually plays dps or even worse sombra, just starts focusing you and there it goes the fun for the day. Also sombra is the single reason why i dont join ranked, since its one of the most frustrating and consistent experiences i had since the rework. But apart from that, i pretty much agree with everything you said. overwatch feels like it genuinely is to afraid to nerf things, to innovate things and to use the opportunities it ocassionally gets to improve the game considerably. the only way im still having fun in overwatch, its just playing support and hoping for good competitive matches. Even you who has inspired me to play winton and brought some fun into my games, its no longer enough for me to want to queue tank anymore (dont get me wrong, i do love your videos a lot btw). If the games feel to sweaty or i have to fight constant sombras and widows, i just shut the game off and hope that i have better luck tomorrow.
I would have talked about a lot more heroes but the video would have been SOOOO much longer. There's far more issues than what I addressed but I wanted to keep it more general so you get the idea of what I'm upset with
15:26 Illari's rate of fire(full charge) is half of Cass's to have same damage if you look at the wiki, if she does rapid fire (no charge) her dps is 1/3. Her headshot multiplier is only 1.5x while cass's is 2x. So although each shot feels powerful, overall through the game her DPS output is still relatively lower, and she can't quick reload with a roll or Ult cancel like cass does.. Although I would say her ult is better than cass's
I really like the idea of supports not being able to headshot actually. It would fix the problems people have with support util, without completely removing things or even altering things too drastically. Bap at least needs it removed, if no one else. edit: I'd remove supporting being able to headshot, except to other supports, and let only zen headshot non-supports. Then nerf moira suck by letting genji destroy the grasp in deflect.
I admire people who still clings on the 5v5 formula, maybe you can salvage this thing if you rework the game at it's core, but that means a actual sequel, Blizzard will never do that. These band-aids changes and adaptations, trying to adapt a archetypal tank like Rein to 5v5, etc.. such awful concepts, Rein had to be completely redesigned, good luck with that. The idea of supports not head shoting, idk how other shooters who have Team Fortress elements deals with this kind of stuff (Apex, Valorant, Paladins, TF2 itself, etc), but I was positively surprised with Marvel Rivals, Venom is the only tank who can head shot (and that made him broken, I bet the devs are going to remove his head shot), this can look like a extreme course of action, but really, sometimes the head shot doesn't make too much sense (like Ana). Anyway, I think Overwatch is pretty much facing the abyss right now, they are going to test 6v6 in a sloppy way, call it a "failure", return to this eternal cycle of mistakes of 5v5. Meanwhile here it comes the Marvel monster literally erasing Paladins from existence, then in a matter of months Rivals will snatch away half of the Overwatch playerbase. Blizzard will get desperate, idk what will happen (maybe firing the director, Microsoft will step in, etc), but really, 5v5 proved to be broken at it's core, the devs are mishandling this IP since day 1, it's over mate, time to change to another game
People trying harder in qp than in ranked is so true. Only once in a blue moon do you get people messing around, and you'll most likely lose because the enemy team is not. Part of it is because the only way some people can have fun is by counterswapping every chance they get, and in some cases you can't even blame them because of how mandatory counterswapping has become.
You can find so many problems with 5v5, and it never gets better. Yet we never felt any of this crap with 6v6. At some point Blizzard has to admit defeat, because this 5v5 format is a complete failure.
I sometimes get teammates picking Hanzo and tell me that a tank I’m on is not good against another tank. When he not doing anything to help. This game sucks and i don’t want to play this anymore.
They legit are the meme riding a bicycle and putting a stick into there own tire. They walk back so many changes that contradict there own past statements lol.
I think esports should've been mentioned too. Ever since the death of the Overwatch League they've completely neglected the esports scene. OWCS isn't advertised anywhere. The drops are trash. Why not make OWL tokens into OWCS tokens and let us earn them? Give us skins for at least the teams that made it to a major. I mean Calling All Heroes (streamed on the overwatch esports twitch channel) got more views in 5 MINUTES than a TIER 1 MATCH on the faceit overwatch channel. Everyone used to know who the Hangzhou Spark was, or Shanghai Dragons even if they have never watched the esport. Now, what quick play player has heard of Crazy Raccoons? Great video though
I thought about talking about OW e-sports but the game itself isn't built for e-sports anymore. It's why OWCS is 3rd party and OWL is dead. Game needs to be fixed first imo
Overwatch 2's biggest problem imo is the ranked system and matchmaking. Climbing out of bronze and silver feels like an impossible task. Match quality varies heavily from one match to another. Often times you stomp the enemy team or you get stomped. To many times I had players in my team that did not understand the fundamentals of the game at all, playing Genji and Junkrat against Mercy and Echo,and even if you ask them to counter they dont Listen, and that is just one example of many. I gave up at this point because OW2 is just a frustrating game to play. Maybe Marvel Rivals works better.
Climbing out of bronze and silver isn’t a game problem, it’s a player problem, not if you would’ve said plat instead it would’ve made more sense. Since if ur struggling to get out of silver, or especially bronze then you’re just beyond bad at the game.
See the problem with letting ow1 stay dead and moving forward is that ow2 without existance of 1 behind it would just concord out and die day 1. Ow1 players are the only reason this game lasted long enough to get that stupid 2. And what did we get? Lied to gaslit and spat in our faces. If you abandon us the entire game will die. Do with that what you will.
Easy fix, undo all ow2 balance but keep the new hero's minus Kiri... 200hp squishys, 375-500hp tanks. Marvel Rivals did so much right, it truly felt like early ow1 (seasons 1-5 to be exact). Remove passives, IT'S NOT NEEDED!! They also just added Sombra/Genji to Rivals...
When you talk about the 5v5 vs 6v6 difference I feel like 5v5 has had more of a chance than 6v6 did. The devs didn't understand how to balance the game during 6v6. And buried their head in the sand when it came to player feedback. And lets be real, there was no balance or updates for the last few years of 6v6. At the same time, I feel like we could give 5v5 another year. But when you look back at the now nearly 2 years most of it it feels like the tires have been rolling in the mud. And one could say because of this the balance has not gotten any better. If they can't do 5v5 what makes us think they can handle 6v6? There are a lot of tanks that just don't fit the mold for 5v5. Which is a big reason. But also this balance team has been much more willing to experiment and listen to the community. So, again, 6v6 never really got a shot either. I agree with a lot of your sentiments and maybe a third of your solutions.
i used to mock the intro but man this game lost so much soul from the swap, like the borders and even this intro and i really miss it. hell we dont even get quality events like we used to
Honestly you hit the nail on the head. Ever since they made the health changes, the game has just been going downhill It’s like they’re trying to purposely make the game unfun Tank is ass, either it’s completely worthless or it’s a raid boss and makes the entire enemy team miserable Characters being buffed/nerfed horrendously Some characters having abilities with almost none to zero counter play Counter swapping is way too easy and gives too much value I ain’t gonna go on forever but you’ve put exactly how I feel into a video. I wanna pray for this game but.. man it’s hard 😞
I know OW 2 is in bad state now , it's really really really bad when our cheerful winton main starts talking about how bad the state of the game now... If thats not a wake up call than what is...
Having something that reflects the match you’re in would be nice, but you can’t mess with the modifiers. That just causes chaos in any ELO/MMR system. If it makes you feel bad, then they were right to hide them before. I can sum it up as needing more positive feedback after a match has ended, especially longer ones. And if after 12 hours you’re in the same spot, again, isn’t that MMR working as expected? Not that it isn’t frustrating, but it’s looking at the wrong system. Earlier in the video you mention you should feel bad for losing, but you want to still feel good for playing for 12 hours if you lost enough to pull you back to where you started. It’s not a complete contradiction, but I wonder if Competitive Drives will help.
Fr. If you say “I’m playing like ass” you get reported. I got banned for 2 weeks once for calling my dps bozos (im a tank main primarily) a few matches in row. “Extreme toxicity” if I recall.
@@Calamity4 You lowkey deserved that. I play brawlhalla and it's the complete opposite, the devs never do anything about toxicity, to the point where every other game you'll fight a toxic player, it makes the game an incredibly miserable experience a lot of the time, so trust me when I say you do NOT want blizzard to do the same
Blizzard needs to LOCK :clap: IN :clap: The best thing they can do for the community right now is to drop another hero next season, back-to-back. Show to us that they are willing to put in the effort to actually make the game feel good.
Bravoo. What a video. As a nerd for game balancing. I decided to make my own games and can only add (I just agree to everything nevertheless) Blizzard shows with Ow2 why stat based (statistica/so we look always in the past and think about consistent player skills) isn't a good way to balance a PvP Game with many skill curves and so on. As a top500 Hog Main, I have to say; for me Ana was always the beginning of bad hero design. I know I might be alone with this take, but having two buttons to decide the whole team fight outcome is ridiculous.
I had high hopes for overwatch 2 with the season 9 changes, but now im just tired of waiting for it to be good for now im having a lot of fun playing deadlock and I don't think im coming back to ow2 unless some big changes make the game good
2:46 "With Overwatch, it was as if your dog got sprayed by a skunk, you're not just gonna replace your dog" It says a lot when you're compariing a living, breathing animal to a garbage video game
Almost 3years of rebalancing nothing has worked years of tank reworks nothing has worked what makes you think it will ever work after 12 seasons of balance reworks
There is a problem but it is possible to go against your counter tanks need to play more cover and no when to go in and out and trust your team to help you and read the play. Yes in low ranks it doesn’t really work. I will happily play against my country and prove the game isn’t counter swapping they can yell complain. You can open others eyes that it’s just as possible. People need to learn not to take the ez why out. Yeah there is a problem but it’s fun going against counters and look for more perspectives and capabilities and learn what and not what to do. My thoughts just trying to have fun!!
I have a few questions. Are you a tank main? Also the excuse that to counter a counter pick is to use cover doesn’t recognize that most tank mains already do that quite a lot. Furthermore, the excuse to a counter pick should not be that a tank, which already has to play more passive then it ever has, has to play more passive. It’s not engaging for the tank player nor fun for their team having to step up and either baby them in the case of the mauga counter pick against most the tank roster, or completely step up and balance yet another factor, that being the tank or whatever heroes the tank was previously holding up. The issue is the balancing methodology. I wasn’t a fan of going back to 6v6 until recently. I remember how fun that first overwatch 2 open beta was, the balancing was really really solid and I have never had more fun playing overwatch. Unfortunately I don’t think that has been transferred into the game proper. With their focus being pvp it makes no bloody sense on why the game, almost every season is implementing a massive buff or nerf and then reverting or mostly reverting it the next patch. It’s just changing stuff to change it. The issue is the format. A multiplayer game with 40ish heroes will always be an extremely challenging undertaking and the removal of the second tank which would normally check many overtuned heroes doesn’t help. Either way, this is just my two cents.
Very in depht review, reflecting what you keep saying in your stream. I gave up playing ow2 seriously for months now, Solo Q only and chat+voice mute because people are using them for toxic uses 100% of time: Too much healing, nothing is dying. Too much damage, that's impossible to kill a hitscan pocket by a mercy all by myself as a monkey. Playing tank is not funny anymore, especially winston, my fav heroe from the start mostly because of counterwatch. Counterwatch is a pain, reaper, bastion and hog are destroying my game. Teamate being unable to kill hog, at the end of the day hog walking to the point while i kill his team and he's killing mine, ending 1v1 Hog as a Monkey. I am sorry you can't stop playing ow2 because you are living from playing it. But regular players like us stoped playing this game, because it is not fun anymore. Blizzard want money, they don't care about anything else. As long as ow2 bring (enough) money, that's fine for them. Money's rule the world.
I just play the game ans have fun i guess im simole like that i dont cry to have characters nerfed or buffed win or loose i just play the game and have fun perhaps your over handling the ball
Well im glad u apologized for saying hurtful stuff, hope we stay constructive from here on out and dont apologise just to go on another hostile rant a week later, like some other content creators..
As much as i loved this game its absolutely been a drag to play lately and i really want to enjoy it and have fun but them first game in and i already wanna get off its sucks man
leaved overwatch because i main genji (genji is unplayable after season 9 and now is worse that that) now i love play yamato bepop and shiv with a lore of deep mechanichs to play but overwatch keep doing the mechanichs more simple and easy to sup players having all the posibilites to win vs a dps its a joke of balance that game
@@kyozata support players should be able to win a 1v1 vs a DPS. It's just that in overwatch the support players abilities are significantly easier to use... So they have an easier time winning the 1v1. No one complains when it's zen who rolls you because he's basically just a DPS anyways. In deadlock, the support play style for characters actually takes skill because even landing a Kelvin nade is difficult. Even using viscous cube is tricky. Even ivys healing requires her to AIM. Like im not gonna get mad when a support kills me in deadlock because it just means they were objectively better than me and used their abilities well. Instead of you know, locking, Moira with the best mobility skill in the game and two auto aim abilities that heal her and have basically 0 cooldown
Yea.. we don’t need to get rid of global healing passive. It’s one of the few “let’s make this game easier for noobs” change they’ve added to the game.
![[Viol2t POV] From the Gamer vs Team Falcons - OWCS Korea - Day 9](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h7pJ6g6WU7M/mqdefault.jpg)
I've always skiped the Winton speech intro, and now I realise...
I miss it so fucking much
real
We took it for granted.
I don't think Blizzard is going to magically get it right after neglecting and mishandling the game for 8 years. Overwatch is the most mishandled IP in history
That's a strong claim considering Star Wars exists
@@dirt_dert_durtReal shit. And Halo..and Battlefield.. man it's rough out here
@@dirt_dert_durtStar Wars at least has a few good products every once in a while
Seriously though, how do the executives keep messing things up?
Rockstar mishandled rdr2 online so abysmally that you forgot about that an put ow over it
5v5 format doesn't work in overwatch... doesn't matter if the game is balanced, one tank will always be the best. And counterpicking can't be solved without two tanks (hero bans won't prevent this).
One tank always being the best doesn’t mean that instantly wins the game. Just like one dps player being the best, or one healer.
And counter picking absolutely can be solved by balancing. Almost all characters have a counter but the majority of them don’t get actively counter swapped in match because it doesn’t make more of a difference than just playing the character you are best at. I’m miles better with Pharah than with Sombra. Even if I get double counter picked with a soldier and an Ashe, I will still absolutely do better on Pharah than I would theoretically swapping to someone who plays better against those two.
I’m not against the idea of going back to 6v6, but I’m not sold that the problems with the game currently can only be resolved by going back, or that 6v6 would even be better. I say that as a split dps and tank main in diamond.
And I think these problems you brought up certainly don’t just go away because we go back to 6v6. Balancing will be even more of a problem then, as it was at the start of ow2.
Fr Ive seen other games make 5v5 work but ow is not one of em at least not with these devs
@@deyensi play genji once i leaved the game 250 hours only genji and now i cant play the game the same way with genji the balance is shit a assasin cant kill a support or healer because they do more dmg than a assasin
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 The Problem why it inherently doesnt work in OW is the Power Dynamic, in OW1 2 Tanks shared their power and DPS (or even some Supps) could 1v1 them if they were good.
This means the Heroes were relative to each other, you had more playmaking potential because of your other Tank helping you and the enemies had more playmaking potential because your HP and Sustain was lower.
With a Solo Tank, they need the power of 2 Tanks to compete and protect their team, make space, etc. this just doesnt work in OW
In League of Legends which is 5v5 too, youre not bound to a "Tank" you could have a team of 5 squishy Champions and win, because the structure of the game is different (and its also very dependent of how you play in the beginning) but in OW having a Tank is a must atleast in RoleQ.
Its obvious that everyone would focus the most threating, biggest and arguably most important enemy with every abilitiy they have.
I disagree with the Video on trying to make 5v5 work, i think its just a lost cause, even if there is some way by changing maps, passives, hero design, etc. the game was just not build for that. Its much easier to make Tank fun again (and roles like DPS/Supp too because they dont have to shoot 800HP Raid Bosses) by going back to 6v6 and balancing from there.
Im very excited to see the 6v6 Test, it should really remind people how good OW used to be, for all Roles, even if OW1 Tank had some issues with CC but that got drastically reduced with OW2 so we will see about that.
@@deyensibut that only works if at least three of your team mates are miles better than the enemy if both teams are equal in strength and strats it is down to who’s tank is better and who’s still alive to back up said tank a great tank with bad team mates is just a tank with his team at spawn and as you said all characters have a counter or two in all roles then your good tank will just get countered to no end and team will still be in spawn this is counterwatch it’s overwatch the whole point of this game when it came out was to pick a hero you like and play with them now it’s just who’s team is better at hard countering the only real way to solve this problem is to either take another member away and make it 4v4 or 6v6 and even then there will be problems such as dmg hp reductions and scaling back hp in which case maybe adding pickable buffs with equal debuffs like paladins does also adding more penalties for switching characters to fast to discourage counter picking
If they brought the winston recall intro back this should be it.
5v5 issue. 6v6 worked so much better the game was actually at least fun in quick play. 5v5 sucks so hard even QP sucks now
yeah I miss double shield
@@xFulgor was never in QP and was a top rank issue. 5v5 is worse in every mode. 6v6 is a better baseline to balance from.
@@AlexTheHorridare you saying Double Shield wasn’t played in lower ranks…..?
@@comedial6829 Over all, yes. People mainly just play who they want to and are good and not counter swap 24/7. I was in the lower ranks when it was ramped, before the shield nerfs, I ran into it maybe 3 times out of most of my competitive games and we won 2 of them because we were just plat/diamond players now OWL players. They’re not playing perfectly it was completely possible to win. Just lock in and communicate with your team in this team based shooter and you’ll win. I’ve done in multiple times and I’m sure you when too. And it was NEVER in QP. 5v5’s issues trickle down to the lowest ranks and even QP. Everyone runs into toxic comps in OW. But people act like they never beatable. I know we have all overcame a toxic comp you thought you’d lose against. Either way double shield is basically fixed now. 6v6 is a better baseline format than 5v5. Not even QP is enjoyable anymore because of 5v5 and its lopsided balance. Giga tanks on each team have proven to not be fun and be even more problematic than the small subset of people who’d experience a real double shield comp.
@@AlexTheHorriddouble shield was most definitely played in lower elos and quickplay because people just copied whatever they saw the pros do because people wanted to win. I don't think I have ever seen a community most obsessed with winning than the Overwatch community.
"New heroes are fun to play but not face" is an issue for like half of the heroes added post launch.
"I feel like i slashed through an entire dungeon, defeated the boss, and there just is no loot"
THIS. This, so much. I can't stand how unrewarding the game is and it doesn't need to be, this is just greed.
Super well-made and thought-through video and your suggestions sound promising! I'll be sticking around regardless of the amount of overwatch content you decide to put out so just keep up the good vibes!
Thanks! I want to make more OW content for sure but it gets harder every day to want to play
I like this alot. This is 1 of 4 well done opinion videos instead of screeching the entire time or quoting unrelated philosophers. Even though I enjoy the game there are fundamental problems with it other than just "this hero is too strong". Alot of core things are outdated and don't mesh well and I don't feel like it gets talked about enough. Maybe if we had a different more thoughtful community we would have people asking for changes that would benefit everyone instead of only receiving balance changes that do nothing or break the game. Sadly enough we have to be with uncertain devs dealing with a community that cannot agree on any issue trying to change a game with deep nuanced issues. Maybe it's just too much to ask for.
winton
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“Without giving 5v5 a fair shot”. They gave 5v5 more of a fair shot then 6v6 role lock ever did. The devs just don’t know how there game works and haphazardly swap formats because they are to incompetent to understand the fundamentals of their own game. They canned open queue because of brig and horrible role distribution. They canned role lock 6v6 because they didn’t care about support or tank. Now we are stuck in 5v5 and they refuse to accept that it’s unfixable. These devs have way too much impulsive and glaring egoistical tendencies to ever understand this game and that’s why it will never be good again.
Yeah it's like people forgot that the game was literally abandoned for 3 years and you still had active players. 6v6 is the *obvious* option and it's clear one of the primary reasons the big wigs refuse to do that is because of sunk costs and because it would become even more obvious that this game isn't a sequel but a shop update.
Brig wasn't even that bad; people don't remember that she was hated because of the Overwatch League. Not even regular people's games, the streams they watched when they weren't playing. The entire game was fundamentally altered to make the esport streams more entertaining.
@@PlatinumAltaria Nah brig on release could 1v1 Rein, could 1 Shot tracer and sustain your whole team while not even trying.
Im sorry but that just isnt true. Theres a reason she got 20 nerfs back to back and was still "good" or atleast playable and even is part to blame for 2x Shield meta but Baptiste was probably worse there.
@@heiko2255 I really don't agree as someone who played her at the time. She shipped with a lot of bugs but I don't think she was anywhere near as overtuned as some of the later heroes. The main thing that's a problem with her is the AOE healing, which just needs a nerf across the board.
@@PlatinumAltaria She was the main Reason Goats was able to exist for 18 Months, she provided way too much AoE Heal which by the way has a way bigger Range than Lucio and heals more than AMPED LUCIO and you can have it up basically all the time
There was a plat player who mained brig on release and he got from 2600 Plat to 4200 GM only playing her
Her being one of the most Important pieces to the 2 most broken metas ever (Goats/2x Shield) shows how broken she really was
This is an actual video i thought it was just the winton short lmao
personally instead of negative passives I feel like just removing them would be great and does a good job at forcing team play. in ow1 with no passives the game revolved around diving and protecting the supports which was much more fun for everyone involved and forced teams to play together to win. giving supports self-heal was just the start of a slippery slope that made it so ow2 plays a lot more like team deathmatch in comparison.
this is by design since its a direct quote from Bobby himself that he wanted to make OW more like COD and be a dps focused liked TDM. Jeff strongly disagreed so he left.
@@nemesis0088 never heard that quote, where was that all said? or just rumors?
@@Sizzylit was in some interview long ago
@@Ccscenario if someone could find a clip/date thatd be dope cuz i dont doubt it but i just wanna hear/see it lol
@@Sizzylwhile I’ve never personally heard that quote in an interview I very vividly remember how owl and pumping so much money and resources into the pro scene while also ignoring the main game and significant balance issues that just didn’t make it fun to watch or to engage in at a high level was pretty much almost solely due to Bobby kotick at the time wanting to create a new cod league but with overwatch instead I don’t know the man personally but he’s very heavily disliked for good reason at best and an actual asshole and one who’s business smart but not very smart in literally any other area in life and I can only imagine he deadass assumed he reasonably COULD do just what you described and have a billion dollar ip/game franchise by the end of it instead of actually understanding the product and its audience I can only imagine in his mind every game that isn’t like cod is genuinely stupid and backwards because he’s too backwards himself to fundamentally understand what he’s engaging with that’s just my two cents though.
If blizzard was planning on turning OverWatch into a unicycle they should have done it by now, or at least started to move in that direction. It's been nearly two years of them flandering around making the current game we sit in progressively worse over time with no vision or direction.
If they're going to keep OverWatch as a bicycle with no front wheel they might as well just fix the bicycle instead of saying how they're committed to making a unicycle while were riding around with no front wheel for another 5 years.
That's just my opinion but good video overall.
Good use of my analogy! It could go either way and I think we'd both be happy if OW went anywhere to begin with
@@Winton_OW2 100%
They dont care about the game anymore. It's a cash cow; people are still buying skins like crazy
yeah they make these characters so good. i'm obsessed with OW. The game was so good tho. I still play OW2 everyday now but it just feel off about the game. They were unpromising... the game can be way more better
Funny is that everyone was so excited about free to play and look at what happened 😂😂
Man says 5v5 can work while showing some of the most *miserable* times playing Winton. Brother, I can respect the tank play but don't lie to yourself.
the intro was real asf
Personally i dont think counter picking should be a viable thing what so ever
Fr, I remember when they said no cars had wheels because it represented the priority of fun. Now you can’t even play your favorite hero’s
Im that winton who makes reaper cry blood
"I can't come up with a negative tank passive"
Playing tank is already the negative tank passive
It sucks overwatch 2 is stuck in a maze with no exit.
5v5 is this maze... if they roll back Overwatch all the way to late 2022, 6v6, remove the new characters and maps entirely, then little by little add them back rebalanced/reworked for 6v6, that can maybe (MAYBE) save Overwatch. But I think the devs are so lazy, they will test 6v6 in a sloppy way, call it a failure and give up. We're talking about the team who released Brigitte, then gave up on balancing goats and enforced role lock, now 5v5, etc.. this is the worst case of mismanagement in videogames history, Overwatch had potential to be a super popular multimedia franchise
Im gonna be honest i dont think 6v6 will save the game.
@@endershel8163 Yep. Luckily Marvel Rivals is right around the corner, at least half of the player base are going to jump on Rivals, Overwatch will go through a very slow and painful death while Rivals thrives. And if Valve is really working on Team Fortress 3 (wild rumors, they are working on something else besides Deadlock), oh boy, against Marvel and TF at the same time, Overwatch will be erased from existence
@@RRRRRRRRR33 Im gonna be honest I dont want overwatch gone I really do enjoy this game its a fun time to just play around with heroes
The Souvenirs need to be something that's interactive. Imagine when you used the Souvenir "emote" it would put your characters weapon away and they'd pull out the Souvenir and then it had its own inspect animation/voice lines and you could also turn it around to show it your teammates/enemies. That would be a billion times better than the trash we have right now.
I think they should take a page from League of Legends with teams taking turns picking heroes and bans and once its locked in thats it. Counter watch is not fun and never will be, we all want to play the heroes that bring us the most fun.
y'know what im pretty sick of seeing these overwatch dying vids because all they did was cry about literally the same topics and offered no solutions. However atleast you genuinely do a deep dive into the issues so good vid man.
Thanks! I really tried to make a good video that can maybe lead to some change somewhere in the OW community
@@MER17T I mean most say the solution for Gameplay is
1. 6v6
2. Less dumbing down the Game
3. Less Passives that give free value
And I would agree with all 3 but doing deep dives into how someone would balance all that could make Videos 2h long
As for Progression or Incentives to play, sure people who make these videos could come up with some stuff
I can't do another season, I've officially quit. Season 9 changes combined with the current rank deflation and making ranks pointless has left me no other reason to play. I play 6v6 customs or nothing.
the intro was gold , it was soo good lol
8:50 pog air control
Let’s all switch over to marvel rivals. I’m looking forward to you going hulk main
Problem with a unicycle is that not only is it hard to balance but also easy to push over and exploit its many flaws. This is why the bicycle is far more generally enjoyed and mainstream in terms of usability. We are 2 years in, and people are still experiencing the same balancing issues with the 5v5 unicycle. Having handle bars, 2 wheels and the option of multiple seats is why the 6v6 bicycle is a better foundation for overwatch.
This and the reality that the TANKS were DESIGNED around 6v6 with TWO tanks, they could have implemented sub roles like off tank and main tank and force tank players to choose one of each to prevent shield metas etc
Designing a whole system around 6v6 and then removing a key element and expecting the whole thing to just work is delusional
@@phil-lI mean the sole reason for 5v5 was to shorten q times, adding a second q doesn’t fix the issue it makes it worse. I believe the way was open to not change the formatting of the game for a single character(brig), if they nerfed her from the start we wouldn’t have to have gone to role q keeping q times short. And for everyone that argues but it was always 6 dps, that was in lower ranks and with enough game sense and mechanical skills you can bully your way out of most ranks.
@@danielalvarez1230 That's the only valid argument they've ever given for it, and even then it's blatantly an overcorrection. The queue times would have been infinitely more bearable with the game going f2p alone.
Yes, they did it to shorten queue times, but they wanted to shorten queue times specifically to milk the game going f2p. Less downtime between games leads to people impulsively playing more. Now, they're using their internal statistics retroactively to justify the decision. People didn't want to play tank before because it was stale and the devs weren't reacting to community feedback, they especially don't want to play tank now because it feels miserable.
The game was literally designed to be 6v6 at it's core. To change to 5v5, it's not a matter of "adaptation" (like what they did with the entire roster), they have to rework characters entirely (if that was the case, Overwatch "2" would be a legit sequel). And it's ironic because the only character who was reworked entirely, Doomfist, he is super problematic, lol so really, this is a classic example of laziness + incompetence, the Overwatch devs had a golden goose at their hands, but they mismanaged the goose since day 1, just awful direction
Hero ban and then draft fixes literally everything about this game, but it will never happen because... reasons... 95+% of the playerbase hates counterpicking and would rather just play their favorite heroes but most end up swapping/countering because it's the only way to reliably win, not mention the constant screaming from your teammates to swap. Take that option off the table, and 90% of games would come down to skill/execution instead of matchups, and players would have to focus on themselves and actually learning matchups, instead of constantly swapping to counters and screaming at teammates to do the same. It's literally the only change that actually does anything to fix the inherent problems with 5v5
Unfortunately, Overwatch has had a multitude of setbacks. Someone at Blizzard needs to wake up and make meaningful player-driven changes to this train wreck of a game. 🥺💔
Blizzard is more concerned about preaching “the message” than the gameplay experience I play out of Miami Florida and this is horrible for me since we have no local server and my isp has huge packet loss to their server, it’s insane. But they add icons and hero’s being stuff that makes zero sense in a non-story driven game that they’re non binary or sny LGBTQIA stuff, sorry, this is irrelevant. The truth is, balance fair and fun gameplay is what we need, also more local servers, not force 40 states into Chicago server and 10 states into LA server, that’s not fair at all, we can’t control our isp touting!
You didn't enjoy when Blizzard leg sweeped the religious faithful after selling them a Statue of a Gay man in the Collectors ED and revealing it afterwards?
Its not something I would do, but I admit the reddit comments were funny to read.
Glad someone, other than spilo, can give a good answer to keep 5v5
While i personally think 6v6 would be balance-wise easier too go back to vs the all the changes for 5v5 You suggested at least it's a direction that would work for an enjoyable game
Like with your Bicycles analogue i imagine that the parts and the blueprint for the full Bicycle are still in the garage
while the seat, some of the frame, and the handle bars are still attached for a Bicycle and not a Unicycle and they don't know what one looks like but they know it has 1 wheel
With the Unicycle looking like an unfinished Bicycle most of the suggestions are how to make a Bicycle instead of a Unicycle
And lastly they lost some of the bolts to put the wheel back on but didn't want to tell everyone till now
at this point, even with the tank patch, i've stopped queing tank at all. since quickplay is so sweaty, it feels like i can never play dps (my worse role) since people can get so fucking toxic, or someone who actually plays dps or even worse sombra, just starts focusing you and there it goes the fun for the day. Also sombra is the single reason why i dont join ranked, since its one of the most frustrating and consistent experiences i had since the rework.
But apart from that, i pretty much agree with everything you said. overwatch feels like it genuinely is to afraid to nerf things, to innovate things and to use the opportunities it ocassionally gets to improve the game considerably. the only way im still having fun in overwatch, its just playing support and hoping for good competitive matches.
Even you who has inspired me to play winton and brought some fun into my games, its no longer enough for me to want to queue tank anymore (dont get me wrong, i do love your videos a lot btw).
If the games feel to sweaty or i have to fight constant sombras and widows, i just shut the game off and hope that i have better luck tomorrow.
when they know they absolutely fucked up they are gonna say we messed up and we will bring 6v6 back
im surprised you didnt mention Orisa in the hero design section of the video, she is the most DPS-like tank in the game and should be reworked again
I would have talked about a lot more heroes but the video would have been SOOOO much longer. There's far more issues than what I addressed but I wanted to keep it more general so you get the idea of what I'm upset with
I am once again calling for Overwatch to revert to Anniversary 2019.
The thing I miss most about OW1 is the Winton intro, it always cheered me up
Well said. Game has gotten so so so much worse since the 2 was added
15:26 Illari's rate of fire(full charge) is half of Cass's to have same damage if you look at the wiki, if she does rapid fire (no charge) her dps is 1/3. Her headshot multiplier is only 1.5x while cass's is 2x. So although each shot feels powerful, overall through the game her DPS output is still relatively lower, and she can't quick reload with a roll or Ult cancel like cass does.. Although I would say her ult is better than cass's
I really like the idea of supports not being able to headshot actually. It would fix the problems people have with support util, without completely removing things or even altering things too drastically. Bap at least needs it removed, if no one else.
edit: I'd remove supporting being able to headshot, except to other supports, and let only zen headshot non-supports. Then nerf moira suck by letting genji destroy the grasp in deflect.
I don't swap to counter, I swap when I want to change my strategy and match what my team wants to do better.
i watched all of this and man you are spitting bro 100 percent agree
I admire people who still clings on the 5v5 formula, maybe you can salvage this thing if you rework the game at it's core, but that means a actual sequel, Blizzard will never do that. These band-aids changes and adaptations, trying to adapt a archetypal tank like Rein to 5v5, etc.. such awful concepts, Rein had to be completely redesigned, good luck with that. The idea of supports not head shoting, idk how other shooters who have Team Fortress elements deals with this kind of stuff (Apex, Valorant, Paladins, TF2 itself, etc), but I was positively surprised with Marvel Rivals, Venom is the only tank who can head shot (and that made him broken, I bet the devs are going to remove his head shot), this can look like a extreme course of action, but really, sometimes the head shot doesn't make too much sense (like Ana).
Anyway, I think Overwatch is pretty much facing the abyss right now, they are going to test 6v6 in a sloppy way, call it a "failure", return to this eternal cycle of mistakes of 5v5. Meanwhile here it comes the Marvel monster literally erasing Paladins from existence, then in a matter of months Rivals will snatch away half of the Overwatch playerbase. Blizzard will get desperate, idk what will happen (maybe firing the director, Microsoft will step in, etc), but really, 5v5 proved to be broken at it's core, the devs are mishandling this IP since day 1, it's over mate, time to change to another game
Commenting to reply later
People trying harder in qp than in ranked is so true. Only once in a blue moon do you get people messing around, and you'll most likely lose because the enemy team is not. Part of it is because the only way some people can have fun is by counterswapping every chance they get, and in some cases you can't even blame them because of how mandatory counterswapping has become.
You can find so many problems with 5v5, and it never gets better. Yet we never felt any of this crap with 6v6. At some point Blizzard has to admit defeat, because this 5v5 format is a complete failure.
I wonder how much better the game would feel if suzu and lamp could only affect 1 person
funny you mention that when kiriko and bap are throw picks right now
@@LeafGreenHDD Bro said throw Picks lmal
I sometimes get teammates picking Hanzo and tell me that a tank I’m on is not good against another tank. When he not doing anything to help. This game sucks and i don’t want to play this anymore.
Don't change anything on my account, but format does kind of matter if what you want to do is play off tank.
They legit are the meme riding a bicycle and putting a stick into there own tire. They walk back so many changes that contradict there own past statements lol.
They should do what CoD does where players can vote what map they wanna play next
I think esports should've been mentioned too.
Ever since the death of the Overwatch League they've completely neglected the esports scene. OWCS isn't advertised anywhere. The drops are trash. Why not make OWL tokens into OWCS tokens and let us earn them? Give us skins for at least the teams that made it to a major. I mean Calling All Heroes (streamed on the overwatch esports twitch channel) got more views in 5 MINUTES than a TIER 1 MATCH on the faceit overwatch channel. Everyone used to know who the Hangzhou Spark was, or Shanghai Dragons even if they have never watched the esport. Now, what quick play player has heard of Crazy Raccoons?
Great video though
I thought about talking about OW e-sports but the game itself isn't built for e-sports anymore. It's why OWCS is 3rd party and OWL is dead. Game needs to be fixed first imo
@@Winton_OW2 thats fair, ig i just miss OWL in its hayday lol
Overwatch 2's biggest problem imo is the ranked system and matchmaking. Climbing out of bronze and silver feels like an impossible task. Match quality varies heavily from one match to another. Often times you stomp the enemy team or you get stomped. To many times I had players in my team that did not understand the fundamentals of the game at all, playing Genji and Junkrat against Mercy and Echo,and even if you ask them to counter they dont Listen, and that is just one example of many. I gave up at this point because OW2 is just a frustrating game to play. Maybe Marvel Rivals works better.
Climbing out of bronze and silver isn’t a game problem, it’s a player problem, not if you would’ve said plat instead it would’ve made more sense. Since if ur struggling to get out of silver, or especially bronze then you’re just beyond bad at the game.
See the problem with letting ow1 stay dead and moving forward is that ow2 without existance of 1 behind it would just concord out and die day 1. Ow1 players are the only reason this game lasted long enough to get that stupid 2. And what did we get? Lied to gaslit and spat in our faces. If you abandon us the entire game will die. Do with that what you will.
Easy fix, undo all ow2 balance but keep the new hero's minus Kiri...
200hp squishys, 375-500hp tanks. Marvel Rivals did so much right, it truly felt like early ow1 (seasons 1-5 to be exact).
Remove passives, IT'S NOT NEEDED!!
They also just added Sombra/Genji to Rivals...
When you talk about the 5v5 vs 6v6 difference I feel like 5v5 has had more of a chance than 6v6 did. The devs didn't understand how to balance the game during 6v6. And buried their head in the sand when it came to player feedback. And lets be real, there was no balance or updates for the last few years of 6v6. At the same time, I feel like we could give 5v5 another year. But when you look back at the now nearly 2 years most of it it feels like the tires have been rolling in the mud. And one could say because of this the balance has not gotten any better. If they can't do 5v5 what makes us think they can handle 6v6? There are a lot of tanks that just don't fit the mold for 5v5. Which is a big reason. But also this balance team has been much more willing to experiment and listen to the community. So, again, 6v6 never really got a shot either.
I agree with a lot of your sentiments and maybe a third of your solutions.
winton, this is amazing
i used to mock the intro but man this game lost so much soul from the swap, like the borders and even this intro and i really miss it. hell we dont even get quality events like we used to
Honestly you hit the nail on the head. Ever since they made the health changes, the game has just been going downhill
It’s like they’re trying to purposely make the game unfun
Tank is ass, either it’s completely worthless or it’s a raid boss and makes the entire enemy team miserable
Characters being buffed/nerfed horrendously
Some characters having abilities with almost none to zero counter play
Counter swapping is way too easy and gives too much value
I ain’t gonna go on forever but you’ve put exactly how I feel into a video. I wanna pray for this game but.. man it’s hard 😞
I know OW 2 is in bad state now , it's really really really bad when our cheerful winton main starts talking about how bad the state of the game now...
If thats not a wake up call than what is...
Get me on the blizzard overwatch 2 team I could have the game fixed in a week
It's been 12 seasons. It's not coming, okay? They had a dream and didn't deliver.
Having something that reflects the match you’re in would be nice, but you can’t mess with the modifiers. That just causes chaos in any ELO/MMR system. If it makes you feel bad, then they were right to hide them before.
I can sum it up as needing more positive feedback after a match has ended, especially longer ones.
And if after 12 hours you’re in the same spot, again, isn’t that MMR working as expected? Not that it isn’t frustrating, but it’s looking at the wrong system. Earlier in the video you mention you should feel bad for losing, but you want to still feel good for playing for 12 hours if you lost enough to pull you back to where you started. It’s not a complete contradiction, but I wonder if Competitive Drives will help.
Anyone know the song that’s playing at 4:20? It’s beautiful
Well said Winton. Hopefully Blizzard will actually take some critiques from this. Great video
a lot of cool ideas. since game has 40 heroes now what you think if they remove mirror picking in competitive?
i'd wanna hear what you'd rework about different characters, you should make a video on that
games 100 percent rigged thus no emotions.
For sure, support heroes should not be able to crit headshots
Sombra needs a hard counter. A hero (maybe support) with firewall skill like lucio aura.
Hell no
With all the suspension and banning they do for "toxicity" how is there still enough people to play?
Fr. If you say “I’m playing like ass” you get reported. I got banned for 2 weeks once for calling my dps bozos (im a tank main primarily) a few matches in row. “Extreme toxicity” if I recall.
@@Calamity4 You lowkey deserved that. I play brawlhalla and it's the complete opposite, the devs never do anything about toxicity, to the point where every other game you'll fight a toxic player, it makes the game an incredibly miserable experience a lot of the time, so trust me when I say you do NOT want blizzard to do the same
Blizzard needs to LOCK :clap: IN :clap:
The best thing they can do for the community right now is to drop another hero next season, back-to-back. Show to us that they are willing to put in the effort to actually make the game feel good.
I know that I hate you just by that first sentence. You seem like a person that has never been punched, but you desperately need it.
Bravoo. What a video. As a nerd for game balancing. I decided to make my own games and can only add (I just agree to everything nevertheless) Blizzard shows with Ow2 why stat based (statistica/so we look always in the past and think about consistent player skills) isn't a good way to balance a PvP Game with many skill curves and so on.
As a top500 Hog Main, I have to say; for me Ana was always the beginning of bad hero design. I know I might be alone with this take, but having two buttons to decide the whole team fight outcome is ridiculous.
You main hog and are trying to talk about bad hero design? That's just skill issue
@@LuizEduardo-md2he As the Joker said: "You wouldn't get it."
I had high hopes for overwatch 2 with the season 9 changes, but now im just tired of waiting for it to be good
for now im having a lot of fun playing deadlock and I don't think im coming back to ow2 unless some big changes make the game good
The payload doesn't need those changes. If you C9, that's just a skill issue
Please tell me you’re not arguing for 5v5.
2:46 "With Overwatch, it was as if your dog got sprayed by a skunk, you're not just gonna replace your dog"
It says a lot when you're compariing a living, breathing animal to a garbage video game
Almost 3years of rebalancing nothing has worked years of tank reworks nothing has worked what makes you think it will ever work after 12 seasons of balance reworks
Marvel Rivals is on the way so we are good.
The push bot did get 10% faster while pushing the objective
I walked away from this video thinking damn, Winton really gets it. Too bad the devs don't xD
These days i can only enjoy random heroes since counterswapping and hero meta is so bad/restricted...
I mean it’s been a hot minute for 5v5 and I just miss my tank duo but for some reason they can’t have 5v5 and a 6v6 classic 🥶
Leave it to the Solar System Simian to say something intelligent about the state of OW2. I grieve for this game.
There is a problem but it is possible to go against your counter tanks need to play more cover and no when to go in and out and trust your team to help you and read the play. Yes in low ranks it doesn’t really work. I will happily play against my country and prove the game isn’t counter swapping they can yell complain. You can open others eyes that it’s just as possible. People need to learn not to take the ez why out. Yeah there is a problem but it’s fun going against counters and look for more perspectives and capabilities and learn what and not what to do. My thoughts just trying to have fun!!
I have a few questions. Are you a tank main? Also the excuse that to counter a counter pick is to use cover doesn’t recognize that most tank mains already do that quite a lot. Furthermore, the excuse to a counter pick should not be that a tank, which already has to play more passive then it ever has, has to play more passive. It’s not engaging for the tank player nor fun for their team having to step up and either baby them in the case of the mauga counter pick against most the tank roster, or completely step up and balance yet another factor, that being the tank or whatever heroes the tank was previously holding up.
The issue is the balancing methodology. I wasn’t a fan of going back to 6v6 until recently. I remember how fun that first overwatch 2 open beta was, the balancing was really really solid and I have never had more fun playing overwatch. Unfortunately I don’t think that has been transferred into the game proper. With their focus being pvp it makes no bloody sense on why the game, almost every season is implementing a massive buff or nerf and then reverting or mostly reverting it the next patch. It’s just changing stuff to change it. The issue is the format. A multiplayer game with 40ish heroes will always be an extremely challenging undertaking and the removal of the second tank which would normally check many overtuned heroes doesn’t help.
Either way, this is just my two cents.
yo man wanna have fun on a 1vs1 game who you can win with all characters PLAY DEADLOCK
Very in depht review, reflecting what you keep saying in your stream.
I gave up playing ow2 seriously for months now, Solo Q only and chat+voice mute because people are using them for toxic uses 100% of time:
Too much healing, nothing is dying.
Too much damage, that's impossible to kill a hitscan pocket by a mercy all by myself as a monkey.
Playing tank is not funny anymore, especially winston, my fav heroe from the start mostly because of counterwatch.
Counterwatch is a pain, reaper, bastion and hog are destroying my game. Teamate being unable to kill hog, at the end of the day hog walking to the point while i kill his team and he's killing mine, ending 1v1 Hog as a Monkey.
I am sorry you can't stop playing ow2 because you are living from playing it. But regular players like us stoped playing this game, because it is not fun anymore.
Blizzard want money, they don't care about anything else. As long as ow2 bring (enough) money, that's fine for them. Money's rule the world.
I just play the game ans have fun i guess im simole like that i dont cry to have characters nerfed or buffed win or loose i just play the game and have fun perhaps your over handling the ball
They’re cooked so why not embrace the chaos and make genji overpowered and take less skill
MADA MADA
Winton
Well im glad u apologized for saying hurtful stuff, hope we stay constructive from here on out and dont apologise just to go on another hostile rant a week later, like some other content creators..
As much as i loved this game its absolutely been a drag to play lately and i really want to enjoy it and have fun but them first game in and i already wanna get off its sucks man
Deadlock gave me a ball guy so im playing the ball guy
leaved overwatch because i main genji (genji is unplayable after season 9 and now is worse that that) now i love play yamato bepop and shiv with a lore of deep mechanichs to play but overwatch keep doing the mechanichs more simple and easy to sup players having all the posibilites to win vs a dps its a joke of balance that game
@@kyozata support players should be able to win a 1v1 vs a DPS. It's just that in overwatch the support players abilities are significantly easier to use... So they have an easier time winning the 1v1. No one complains when it's zen who rolls you because he's basically just a DPS anyways.
In deadlock, the support play style for characters actually takes skill because even landing a Kelvin nade is difficult. Even using viscous cube is tricky. Even ivys healing requires her to AIM. Like im not gonna get mad when a support kills me in deadlock because it just means they were objectively better than me and used their abilities well. Instead of you know, locking, Moira with the best mobility skill in the game and two auto aim abilities that heal her and have basically 0 cooldown
@@Azarthes Fact i love deadlock for that BIG difference on skill in aupports
ABSOLUTE CINEMA
Bring back 6v6
Yea.. we don’t need to get rid of global healing passive. It’s one of the few “let’s make this game easier for noobs” change they’ve added to the game.
I disagree as it was the final nail in the coffin for every mode outside role que.
people complain too much, just not playing the game is easier.
Fact cant even play genji unninstalled the game (season 9 is shit)
Based Winton
Lets go
Funny.i hear ppl complain bout winton all the time