I’m pretty sure he would take that. I think he doesn’t respect anyone but old Twitch streamers and Soda was his friend so he could easily interact with him
One of the last collabs Forsen ever did was with Soda, they played some stupid submarine indie game, at the end of the stream they said they should play it again soon - they never did and Forsen became a recluse sadeg
In cataclysm classic theres a mechanic for mage combustion where the damage goes higher whenever the ignite damage is higher, but theres no way to know how much damage your ignite does, so then people created a weakaura that predicts the ignite damage. I dont think addons make the experience that worse for pve most of them are just quality of life options, but for pvp they do be really op, having the enemy trinket cooldown on your screen is straight cheating.
Gladius, Interrupt bar, DR trackers, and group cooldown icons etc etc is the worst thing that ever happened to arena and ill die on that hill. It has contributed to the decline of what made watching arena fun and as a result declined the interest in WoW pvp in general. Clutters the screen to hell as well.
@@Exilitate that’s where I draw the line as well. I was watching Reckful reruns in MoP and he had no addons, just communication with his team. It’s not even close how much more entertaining it is compared to any arena after.
I mean, i dont know for retail but for all the instances of classic theres just no way to know what youre supposed to do in some bosses because the game was poorly designed. But yeah cooldown trackers are very op.
@@Farfarawai It's the same in Retail, the devs literally design bosses with addons in mind. In my opinion it's trash, because addons should be, well, addons. Not something necessary.
@@corvoyami3192 There's a universe out there where blizzard stop being lazy fucks and make the base game better (or just hire the addon makers/owners to implement it). Unfortunately we are stuck updating curseforge addons, weakauras even fucking elvui if you use it (i do) using 3 different apps to do so zzz
The thing about "going into a mythic raid and do it first try" is a bit disingenuous because OBVIOUSLY blizzard knows these addons exist and likely adapt content to the use of said addons. Maybe if the game was void of them, mythic raids would have to be simpler or they could tailor the design of raids to function without them. I only play sod atm but it's like with Gnomer the final boss had a interrupt requirement that would wipe the raid. Where in gods green earth is anyone supposed to realize that just because the boss is fuming green you're supposed to interrupt it or die. I doubt blizzard would have made the requirement so strict without the expectations eventually some angry lady would be screaming at all players that they need to interrupt. I want to clarify I'm not speaking about difficulty, interrupting in Gnomer was not challenging, but WOW bosses just glow random colors basically and you're supposed to know what they are doing.
If Mythics had simpler mechanics people would bitch about how easy they are. People have been complaining about addons LITERALLY since the beginning. It's always just been a proxy for real issues with the game that most players are too smooth brained to articulate.
Raids are not crazy. Compare them to elden ring or dark souls bosses where they have 20 diff moves with 5 diff variations on each, and 1 fuckup and ure ded. Wow bosses are a joke in comparison. Doing integrals is much harder. Or metaphysics.
@@kerkertrandov459 must not have seen mythic raids cause they are def a you fuck up once you die thing and you are also comparing something made for 20 people to fight at once vs a 1v1 fight if you had 20 guys in elden ring fight it would be braid dead easy lol like you can cheese bosses with a sand clone and i know cause i watched someone do it like be real man
"so you can just go in a mythic raid, and do them first try?" (without addons) nah, no one's cracked. FF XIV manages to do hard fights with no addons allowed though (theres still some people that uses illegall ones, but the point is that blizz designs their game with addons in mind and relied on)
IDK, I strongly disagree about Damage Meters. I used to raid lead A LOT, and I can tell you that 50% of wipes and 90% of guild drama is based on Damage Meters. - Somebody pumping the boss instead of switching to ads because they have procs - People standing in fire because they're too focused on their rotation to get to the top of meters - People standing in fire INTENTIONALLY because they need to DPS, creating unnecessary stress on healers. - There's no survivability gear anymore because everyone are only focused on damage and whined how resist gear is so bad - People getting demoralized because of low personal DPS and quitting the game because they can't beat no-life sweats in the raid. - People quitting the guild because they think they're better than everyone else and deserve a more high-damage raid. - Good people getting denied guild invites because their logs are 70 and we want 85+ even though our raid is cancelled this week because we don't have people. But if you DO invite them then "elites" start doing the point above. - People getting upset because that mage got an item ahead of them even though they DPS more I can keep going on and on and on. The simple fact is that DPS creates a separate incentive apart from simply killing the boss. And people just can't get over it. They could act differently and just kill a boss safely and easily - but they don't. Because DPS is more important. I had to once kick a person who literally wiped the raid because they personally died early and got BR'ed, but they won't get orange logs on a potential first kill attempt because of it. Damage meters is THE worst addon of the game. I don't even care about DBM that creates an arms race with Blizzard and leads to mechanics bloat. Damage Meters is THE WORST addon and should have never been allowed to exist because it subverts the entire gameplay In FF14 you can use it, but you get banned if you show it to anyone and get reported. So no worldoflogs, no one pastes the logs in chat at the end of the dungeon, and everyone are just playing the damn game and doing their best to kill a boss.
You don't need them, except you do, they make the learning process of any boss encounter of figuring out how to counter other classes/ track their cds way easier. The argument that they don't play for you so it's ok it's beyond stupid, the only reason someone has this kind of mentality is because they very attached to their skills in the game being questioned. But let's be real every time soda comes back, either to retail or classic, he refuses to learn, some attitude as in League. Gets annoyed/frustrated calls a friend or someone of high rating, pretty much throw the possibility of receiver high viewership and gets though the ropes like a baby. spoon fed how to play/counter every class he can't figure out and get that guy to also pretty much boost him (not saying soda is bad at the game, but the dude literally gets a play by play review of what he did wrong and what to improve, he pretty much gets a free PVP training ride and all he needs to do is wiggle some possible viewers for the guy). Then he plays with Nick or someone he knows and pretends that he is high ranking from his "skill", dude unironically pays for a trainer for a PVP and get's spoon fed information. Does that still take effort, yes, but you dramatically increase time to learn to a couple weeks rather than trial and error which most people have to do, main point why pvp is barren, it's not fun to learn it's not fun to play unless you know everything, and learning via trial and error is ass, so pump those addons, videos or a trainer and start grinding,... or just don't bother.
He's right about addons tbh. Back in the day during vanilla most people didn't even use addons. Some definitely add huge QOL improvements but other than those the game would be better without them.
I think the big issue with addons. In both pvp and pve. Is it creates an arms race player vs player. And player vs devs. It super inflates the skill gap not lessons it when someone who knows what to do with information, is fed all of it faster than comms can, even versus someone with the same addons, he's going to know how to apply it far greater. Miss when trading resources and keeping track of cds was a game knowledge and skill check. Kinda like idk league. 🤷♂️ Also as for pve. If the number 1 addon is dbm. An addon literally telling you to move, soak, and literally everything to deal with mechanics. AND the devs want to make challenging fights. Why do you assume that high end Raiding has gotten so bloated with mechanics. It goes both ways. Everything is designed right now with the understanding that addons are EVERYWHERE and doing a lot more and more as time goes on. It's tought to cus you can just go in circles here where do you start? Get rid of all 3rd party and now you're left eith an overcomplicated and bloated game and no way yo process info just cold turkey. Or do you cut back OK mechs first making addons feel less necessary. It's Def a combo of the two seeing as even in classic we see things like dbm which very much aren't needed. I can also just imagine the baby rage of everyone complaining their fav addon didn't make the cut for the in game ui options. Even if you hate addons, it really is a major handicap at least in pvp to raw dog it. Everyone else is using it and being fed info. If a game openly allowed map hacks in something like csgo. Are you going to forgo downloading them and trying to climb? Imagine if your random teammates knew that lol. Would love to see a streamer wargames tourney with no addons like old awc Lan. Makes comms feel very impactful. Very much miss when awc level you could have overlaps and misplays like "oh he probably doesn't have xyz cooldowns let's go for win"
“Add ons don’t play the game for you” Everyone that raids runs Foji, which is like DBM on steroids. I get what what he’s saying though obviously but now I’ve dulled myself as a player waiting for que sounds from my weak aura 😅🤷🏽♂️
sure, the game NEEDS damage meters, as much as it NEEDS raid finder 🙄 the ppl who cry that the game is boring are the same ppl clamoring for more boring crap to be implemented... they're asking for more lanes to "fix" traffic how about instead they redesign bosses so the skill checks are different? that way the gameplay might stop feeling like you're a stockbroker trying to frantically maximize profits by staring at some graphs all day this is what LARGE group effort looks like, it always boils down to efficiency, which is boring
I wouldn't play wow without addons. not for like mechanics etc. but UI-wise.. the default ui is shit. especially the new retail one. i wouldnt play without being to modify it
Xd if u cant clear raids because u dont have dbm, ur either not good enough for the content, or raids are just not well designed. Either way, u shouldnt rely on addons, it renders the experience rather pointless
@@Zephhi Yes but FFXIV is NOT designed around addons. The addons in FFXIV are, you know, ADDONS... They add onto the game, you don't NEED them to play the game. The bosses don't require addons...
6:00 been saying this for so long when I still played WoW. DBM is a fucking shit addon and it needed to be removed a long time ago, it makes boss designing far more lazy on blizz's side as they dont have to make the bosses intentions clear, and so on...
Hahahaha hahahaha holy the thought of frozen wanting to play anything with a bunch of grifters who are only playing for "content" is so hilariously stupid. Lil bro 90% of people who are taking part don't even want to actually play but it's content!!
i find it funny how Forsen lil addon rant comes across and so uneducated and honestly just feels like he's parroting a post from reddit as to what he should believe about wow cause he hates it lol like he's not capable of forming his own opinion lol
then stop playing this dumb unplayable game from 20 years ago since they dont want to fix the mechanics to make it visable the boss is gona aoe. instead people are like dont worry bro ill make a add on so we can keep playing this garbage so i can have the memberberries in my 30s. GOOOO OUTSIDE
your mind after minecraft speedruns
Only way to get forsen to join is to make a deal with him where he doesn't interact with any other streamers besides Soda himself.
Can only trade with Soda?
I’m pretty sure he would take that. I think he doesn’t respect anyone but old Twitch streamers and Soda was his friend so he could easily interact with him
@@Zephhiagreed, these new popular streamers are cancer. Literal man children.
He hasn't interacted with any streamers since Byron left us. That hurt him, and he shut himself off
@@AFX_______ is this like true, or you just thing that this is the reason?
One of the last collabs Forsen ever did was with Soda, they played some stupid submarine indie game, at the end of the stream they said they should play it again soon - they never did and Forsen became a recluse sadeg
RIP Byron
@@AFX_______ does reckfull have to do with forsen being a recluse? Im not familiar with their relationship
@@AFX_______also i have to ask a fellow afx fan haha whats ur favorite album? Mine probably either SAW 1, or the analord series
Do you know what the game was called?
@@invalidcrazy7034 I don't remember sadly, I too would have liked to rewatch it.
I just got a memory from legendary Forsen x Soda stream playing A Way Out, they had a good dynamic to be fair
DUO NOW FORSAN 😡
In cataclysm classic theres a mechanic for mage combustion where the damage goes higher whenever the ignite damage is higher, but theres no way to know how much damage your ignite does, so then people created a weakaura that predicts the ignite damage. I dont think addons make the experience that worse for pve most of them are just quality of life options, but for pvp they do be really op, having the enemy trinket cooldown on your screen is straight cheating.
forsen
Gladius, Interrupt bar, DR trackers, and group cooldown icons etc etc is the worst thing that ever happened to arena and ill die on that hill. It has contributed to the decline of what made watching arena fun and as a result declined the interest in WoW pvp in general. Clutters the screen to hell as well.
pvp hasnt been good since mop
The fact that Soda thinks interrupt bar should be built into the game is ridiculous
@@Exilitatesince tbc you mean? f*ck monks, dks and demon hunters
@@Exilitate that’s where I draw the line as well. I was watching Reckful reruns in MoP and he had no addons, just communication with his team. It’s not even close how much more entertaining it is compared to any arena after.
@@ImSoGonzo large agree, RIP the goat... miss him every day, it sucks so much.
Forsen is a retail wow player confirmed! FIND HIM!
Addons dont play you the game, but it tells you what to do.
A game should not be designed around add-ons lmao
I mean, i dont know for retail but for all the instances of classic theres just no way to know what youre supposed to do in some bosses because the game was poorly designed. But yeah cooldown trackers are very op.
@@Farfarawai It's the same in Retail, the devs literally design bosses with addons in mind. In my opinion it's trash, because addons should be, well, addons. Not something necessary.
@@corvoyami3192 There's a universe out there where blizzard stop being lazy fucks and make the base game better (or just hire the addon makers/owners to implement it). Unfortunately we are stuck updating curseforge addons, weakauras even fucking elvui if you use it (i do) using 3 different apps to do so zzz
@@Farfarawai skill isue
he obviously saw magegod's clip and wanted to switch to pvp :D
The thing about "going into a mythic raid and do it first try" is a bit disingenuous because OBVIOUSLY blizzard knows these addons exist and likely adapt content to the use of said addons. Maybe if the game was void of them, mythic raids would have to be simpler or they could tailor the design of raids to function without them. I only play sod atm but it's like with Gnomer the final boss had a interrupt requirement that would wipe the raid. Where in gods green earth is anyone supposed to realize that just because the boss is fuming green you're supposed to interrupt it or die. I doubt blizzard would have made the requirement so strict without the expectations eventually some angry lady would be screaming at all players that they need to interrupt.
I want to clarify I'm not speaking about difficulty, interrupting in Gnomer was not challenging, but WOW bosses just glow random colors basically and you're supposed to know what they are doing.
Also usually the first boss or two in a mythic raid can be one shot, once Mythic difficulty releases
"blizzard knows these addons exist and likely adapt content to the use of said addons." Ion said that they do. its not likely, its 100% true
If Mythics had simpler mechanics people would bitch about how easy they are. People have been complaining about addons LITERALLY since the beginning. It's always just been a proxy for real issues with the game that most players are too smooth brained to articulate.
Remove addons. Make visual and sound queues to predict mechanics.
Almost every mechanic has a voice line of some kind attached.
I mean a game should not be designed around add ons
They should be addons not necessary
Forsen isn't on drugs, he is a drug
they said they build these raids this crazy cause of WA and DBM so if they took them out the bosses would reflect that
Raids are not crazy. Compare them to elden ring or dark souls bosses where they have 20 diff moves with 5 diff variations on each, and 1 fuckup and ure ded. Wow bosses are a joke in comparison. Doing integrals is much harder. Or metaphysics.
@@kerkertrandov459 must not have seen mythic raids cause they are def a you fuck up once you die thing and you are also comparing something made for 20 people to fight at once vs a 1v1 fight if you had 20 guys in elden ring fight it would be braid dead easy lol like you can cheese bosses with a sand clone and i know cause i watched someone do it like be real man
They dont play the game for you. They give you information you would otherwise have to look for. At least combat addons.
"Is he on drugs? He sounds..." No that's forsen's funny voice
"so you can just go in a mythic raid, and do them first try?" (without addons)
nah, no one's cracked. FF XIV manages to do hard fights with no addons allowed though (theres still some people that uses illegall ones, but the point is that blizz designs their game with addons in mind and relied on)
RING RING RUN LITTLE GIRL
IDK, I strongly disagree about Damage Meters. I used to raid lead A LOT, and I can tell you that 50% of wipes and 90% of guild drama is based on Damage Meters.
- Somebody pumping the boss instead of switching to ads because they have procs
- People standing in fire because they're too focused on their rotation to get to the top of meters
- People standing in fire INTENTIONALLY because they need to DPS, creating unnecessary stress on healers.
- There's no survivability gear anymore because everyone are only focused on damage and whined how resist gear is so bad
- People getting demoralized because of low personal DPS and quitting the game because they can't beat no-life sweats in the raid.
- People quitting the guild because they think they're better than everyone else and deserve a more high-damage raid.
- Good people getting denied guild invites because their logs are 70 and we want 85+ even though our raid is cancelled this week because we don't have people. But if you DO invite them then "elites" start doing the point above.
- People getting upset because that mage got an item ahead of them even though they DPS more
I can keep going on and on and on.
The simple fact is that DPS creates a separate incentive apart from simply killing the boss. And people just can't get over it. They could act differently and just kill a boss safely and easily - but they don't. Because DPS is more important.
I had to once kick a person who literally wiped the raid because they personally died early and got BR'ed, but they won't get orange logs on a potential first kill attempt because of it.
Damage meters is THE worst addon of the game. I don't even care about DBM that creates an arms race with Blizzard and leads to mechanics bloat. Damage Meters is THE WORST addon and should have never been allowed to exist because it subverts the entire gameplay
In FF14 you can use it, but you get banned if you show it to anyone and get reported. So no worldoflogs, no one pastes the logs in chat at the end of the dungeon, and everyone are just playing the damn game and doing their best to kill a boss.
Well, he's right.
I never knew that there is someone that is harder to understand than xqc
Didnt know Robin Hood plays Wow
addons in pvp are way more needed than in pve, at least for non robots. to see enemy cds coming, when ppl get cc'd with a warning and shit, its too op
It should be built in
maybe design the bosses so that you dont need 3rd party tools to be fucking able to play the game
You don't need them, except you do, they make the learning process of any boss encounter of figuring out how to counter other classes/ track their cds way easier.
The argument that they don't play for you so it's ok it's beyond stupid, the only reason someone has this kind of mentality is because they very attached to their skills in the game being questioned.
But let's be real every time soda comes back, either to retail or classic, he refuses to learn, some attitude as in League.
Gets annoyed/frustrated calls a friend or someone of high rating, pretty much throw the possibility of receiver high viewership and gets though the ropes like a baby. spoon fed how to play/counter every class he can't figure out and get that guy to also pretty much boost him (not saying soda is bad at the game, but the dude literally gets a play by play review of what he did wrong and what to improve, he pretty much gets a free PVP training ride and all he needs to do is wiggle some possible viewers for the guy).
Then he plays with Nick or someone he knows and pretends that he is high ranking from his "skill", dude unironically pays for a trainer for a PVP and get's spoon fed information.
Does that still take effort, yes, but you dramatically increase time to learn to a couple weeks rather than trial and error which most people have to do, main point why pvp is barren, it's not fun to learn it's not fun to play unless you know everything, and learning via trial and error is ass, so pump those addons, videos or a trainer and start grinding,... or just don't bother.
He's right about addons tbh. Back in the day during vanilla most people didn't even use addons. Some definitely add huge QOL improvements but other than those the game would be better without them.
Forsen talkin about addons in pvp
soda goes yappa yappa yappa so you tell me with addons you can clear mythics on first try
Yes, you just need to read mechanics and you are good to go, if you can’t do it you are bad
@@Orsooh99lmao, insane take
@@Corrupted ur literally german shaddap
@@Austrveg I apologize
I think the big issue with addons. In both pvp and pve. Is it creates an arms race player vs player. And player vs devs.
It super inflates the skill gap not lessons it when someone who knows what to do with information, is fed all of it faster than comms can, even versus someone with the same addons, he's going to know how to apply it far greater.
Miss when trading resources and keeping track of cds was a game knowledge and skill check. Kinda like idk league. 🤷♂️
Also as for pve. If the number 1 addon is dbm. An addon literally telling you to move, soak, and literally everything to deal with mechanics. AND the devs want to make challenging fights. Why do you assume that high end Raiding has gotten so bloated with mechanics.
It goes both ways. Everything is designed right now with the understanding that addons are EVERYWHERE and doing a lot more and more as time goes on.
It's tought to cus you can just go in circles here where do you start? Get rid of all 3rd party and now you're left eith an overcomplicated and bloated game and no way yo process info just cold turkey. Or do you cut back OK mechs first making addons feel less necessary.
It's Def a combo of the two seeing as even in classic we see things like dbm which very much aren't needed.
I can also just imagine the baby rage of everyone complaining their fav addon didn't make the cut for the in game ui options.
Even if you hate addons, it really is a major handicap at least in pvp to raw dog it. Everyone else is using it and being fed info. If a game openly allowed map hacks in something like csgo. Are you going to forgo downloading them and trying to climb? Imagine if your random teammates knew that lol.
Would love to see a streamer wargames tourney with no addons like old awc Lan.
Makes comms feel very impactful.
Very much miss when awc level you could have overlaps and misplays like "oh he probably doesn't have xyz cooldowns let's go for win"
Two people not playing retail talking about playing retail, the irony
If you really think add-ons play the game for you you're literally braindead
“Add ons don’t play the game for you”
Everyone that raids runs Foji, which is like DBM on steroids. I get what what he’s saying though obviously but now I’ve dulled myself as a player waiting for que sounds from my weak aura 😅🤷🏽♂️
I thought big wigs?
sure, the game NEEDS damage meters, as much as it NEEDS raid finder 🙄
the ppl who cry that the game is boring are the same ppl clamoring for more boring crap to be implemented...
they're asking for more lanes to "fix" traffic
how about instead they redesign bosses so the skill checks are different?
that way the gameplay might stop feeling like you're a stockbroker trying to frantically maximize profits by staring at some graphs all day
this is what LARGE group effort looks like, it always boils down to efficiency, which is boring
I wouldn't play wow without addons. not for like mechanics etc. but UI-wise.. the default ui is shit. especially the new retail one. i wouldnt play without being to modify it
I want to see only fangs mythic raid
yeah cuz wiping on 1st boss for 3 weeks in a row would be peak content
You think you do but you dont
Xd if u cant clear raids because u dont have dbm, ur either not good enough for the content, or raids are just not well designed. Either way, u shouldnt rely on addons, it renders the experience rather pointless
FFXIV chads having BASED devs that have castbars AND good body language to showcase an attack coming. WoW is done man, game has changed for the worse.
and we still moddin that fucking game man lol
@@Zephhi Yes but FFXIV is NOT designed around addons. The addons in FFXIV are, you know, ADDONS... They add onto the game, you don't NEED them to play the game. The bosses don't require addons...
Too bad ff combat is worse than dark souls 1, unlucky
@@JamStick123 Bait
@@Zephhi mods are literally for the degens and cringe marketboard sweaties. Devs made the fights so that you LEARN and actually improve.
Is forsen still with that nina chick? I haven't seen him for a long time. It looks like he moved.
no one knows, i dont know for how much time you havent watched him but he changed A LOT in the last 4 years
No he's back with xQc now.
@@Farfarawai "no one knows" ???
She and their rat are heard in the background all the time. She doesn't want to be online anymore
@@Farfarawai how did he change?
@@AFX_______ its a dog not a rat
6:00 been saying this for so long when I still played WoW. DBM is a fucking shit addon and it needed to be removed a long time ago, it makes boss designing far more lazy on blizz's side as they dont have to make the bosses intentions clear, and so on...
AGREE
Hahahaha hahahaha holy the thought of frozen wanting to play anything with a bunch of grifters who are only playing for "content" is so hilariously stupid. Lil bro 90% of people who are taking part don't even want to actually play but it's content!!
majority of them are not gonna hit 60, including forsen.. he can't just restart million times like in minecraft.. if he dies he is dead.
@dubstepforever99 but they cleared MC without anyone dying. Give streamers some credit, it's not a hard game mode, just grindy
@jc624 yeah, but they got mobbed tagged with multiple deaths on the way there. Mc is stupid easy. Like braindead
i find it funny how Forsen lil addon rant comes across and so uneducated and honestly just feels like he's parroting a post from reddit as to what he should believe about wow cause he hates it lol
like he's not capable of forming his own opinion lol
wow you find it funny damn incredible
Wow is a pretty shit game and supported by nostalgia tbh
actually maybe this guy's brain is cooked enough to think everyone is excited to play, he is dating veibae after all
Whats wrong with dating veibae?
@@kerkertrandov459 she is pixels
then stop playing this dumb unplayable game from 20 years ago since they dont want to fix the mechanics to make it visable the boss is gona aoe. instead people are like dont worry bro ill make a add on so we can keep playing this garbage so i can have the memberberries in my 30s. GOOOO OUTSIDE
Damage Meters is probably one of the most useless addons in the game lol I don't think Soda knows what the fuck he's talkin' about.
jouj