Making: Huge Nixie Tube Finally Glowing! - Project H #19
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- This is the second prototype build of the H-tube, I fixed several issues from the first build - especially the front window sealing made me soo much happy as the seal is so beautiful. The fun will continue as there are still many issues to solve :-)
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Hi! Thank you sooo much for the positivity and constructive attitude - not only it helps me to get closer to the working H tube, but it is also incredibly motivating. In these gloomy autumn days, it is especially important ;-)
We got much good advice here in the comments, I want to underline some:
It was suggested that the insulating layer of the ceramics of the Ceramawire is not thick enough to bring the potential below striking (or better maintaining) voltage level. So, the potential at the surface of the wire is still enough to strike and/or keep the glow running. That was expected, what is a real issue is that the ceramic coating is porous, allowing the electrons to escape from the underlying wire despite the dielectric strength of the insulation layer was not exceeded. Just a small quantity of free electrons is enough to keep the glow running as they produce new free electrons from the gas molecules itself.
The idea is to study these processes more in-depth and make another video about it soon.
Thank you for your support!
Do you plan on making more of these? I may be willing to buy some
You are a very motivated person and a talented engineer. A professional in his field. You will succeed)
I have a question about the gas, that you fill your tubes with: Do you a radioactive starting aid like kr-85, or do these tubes purely rely on the high voltage for ionisation? I know a lot of smaller neon lamps (often used in switches) do use radioactive substances to help them start at voltages of
@@RayRayGaming-xb3pz Yes, the H tube will become our product one day, once all the issues are solved!
@@unmountablebootvolume We dont use anything radioactive, it is not necessary - the tubes strike reliably.
"this is why I love UA-cam... you get access to people who are 10 times smarter than you..."
... or alternatively, you get the idiotic nonsense that I put in the comments section.
Beautiful self deprecating humor good sir! Have a nice day ^^
Who said it wasn't sarcasm?
What a dramatic movie. It really hurt physically when you broke the glass pipe, and it was a big relief and joy at the First Light.
What a fascinating hand craft process, so many different steps.
Thank you for sharing this whole drama, your ups and downs.
You will for sure be successful, I'll keep my fingers crossed.
How beautiful this tube looks, anyhow!
Best part is your wrap-up in the dark.
Few have the tooling and equipment to take on such a challenge. Even fewer have the necessary skills and knowledge to make these tubes. Excellent work sir.
"Why are these things so expensive?!" - Watches video - "ohhhhh" 😁
Dalibor: I bought hydraulic press for Nixie tubes prototyping.
Audience: The best hydraulic press channel is born!
Terrific effort! The numbers are so incredibly elegant! Stunning!
It's nice to run into a random comment from a person you really love watching. Never thought it would occur on a pretty obscure nixie tube channel :)
@@BTGDelta Thanks! What Dalibor is doing is so amazing and it is so uplifting to watch him practice his art. And his channel is not obscure, it’s glowing bright orange ;-) !
You sir are an artisan.
Well, literally in a sense, yes!
Nice compliment!
what I find refreshing, is that you are showing the not desirable outcomes and its all about learning and making a better product, keep up the good work and believe in the fantastic work you are doing. you are creating ‘art’
I've been watching your work for a few years now, and it's always very intriguing and inspiring to see what you are creating. Thank your for sharing :)
I hope you have success with your projects and your team.
I can’t wait to see all the digits glowing. So cool. The final H tube is going to be amazing!
Nixie Tubes might be the most satisfying display ever. That sweet redish orange high voltage glow is just so inviting. It flows.
Regarding the glow of the ceramawire:
A common way to test insulated wires is to place them in water (with some salt) while having the wire ends above water. Then measure the insulation resistance from the conductor to the water. If there are any cracks or holes in the insulation you get a short to the water.
If the ceramawire fail this test it proves the insulation is cracked or faulty.
That's a great suggestion, Richard! I'm sorry the ceramawire didn't prevent a plasma from forming. Perhaps it's caused by tiny cracks that are not a problem when using the ceramic insulation to prevent physical contact between the wire and nearby conductors. But in a conductive plasma... It's another story. Thanks so much, Dalibor, for documenting your work! It's really fascinating to watch, and we are all so happy to see first light from the tube!
dipping it in mercury would be better test of insulation, but little bit more hazardous
@@yoppindia I am almost sure mercury will not help. It has extremely high surface tension in contact with air. It is highly probable that the surface tension with ceramics is also very high. Mercury would not wet it and would not get into the small cracks.
@ I had read a book about transformer in which they showed a way to test enamelled copper wire for cracks. All it need is to touch the wire with mercury and you will get open cracked enamel by passing a current through copper wire and mercury. Infact there are switches which are used to detect position using mercury. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_switch
Nice test, didnt think about it - will do for sure, thank you!
Is it just me who thinks the way it pops/crackles and the numbers half glow before fully lighting is cool in its own way?
Fascinating video as always!
This is just Fascinating! and BEAUTIFUL! even if it may not be perfect at present, I would still LOVE to own it! You are indeed very talented!
Beautiful work Dalibor! Yes this is why you do proto-types, you learn and make changes until you reach close to perfection. Just amazing work you are doing. so exciting to see all of your hard work coming to fruition. Yes there are more problems to solve, but the finished vision is now on the horizon. Gorgeous!
This is amazing!
Oh yes it is my friend
Don't be afraid to use more structural bends in your plates. If you need a torus, use the structural ridges to give it the strength it needs to maintain shape. This will also help when it heats up later.
I've been watching for a couple of years at your work, but now you really took my breath away. Good luck and best regards from Belarus!
Ah finally!
Now development continues but we have great hope you will solve these problems.
I love seeing all your iterations and testing! Experience is the best teacher.
You're using the fly press wrong. You need to have some momentum, that's the reason for the big ball of metal on the opposite side of the handle, when you use it so it's quick and the metal doesn't have time to move. Instead it stretches and forms better. You want to start when the head of the press is a couple of inches away from the mold. Watch videos of them being used and you'll see what i mean. Someone with experience on them can pump simple plates like yours out pretty quick. especially if they're precut to size. Also maybe change your channel name to Ntube or NixieTube
I know :-) the problem is that this one doesnt fly :-) I will need to take it apart, clean and lubricate.. then mount to some steady support.. for a basic idea it was good to usemit as aimwas.. but thank you for the explanation!
@@daliborfarny To prevent the buckling of sheet metal, it's useful to clamp the surrounding material to the stamping die. The friction prevents the surrounding material to get pulled closer to the center (where the diameter is smaller, so it buckles). Instead, the material needs to stretches exactly at the step.
The rubber pad does somthing very similar.
...but what happens when he starts building other amazing projects that aren't nixie tubes? Relevant names are useful at the start, however once you already have a tremendous level of associated search / linking it doesn't matter so much. Right now if I search for "nixie tube", Dalibor is the first hit.
So excited to finally see a prototype! We've been looking at parts and plans for so long now, I was wondering when we'd see even a partially working version, and here we finally are!
Keep at it Dalibor, Rome was not built in a day and if it were not for the dedication of craftsmen like you I would not have made my R|Z568M clock
Amazing job, as usual. I'm thrilled to see this technology being revived and expanded on. Keep up the good work!
I think I've said this before but I really have to thank you for helping keep this art alive
0:43 - To prevent buckling, can a thicker sheet metal be used? 20:30 - You think ceramic insulated wires would work? This would prevent shorting. You really do like to keep things very small and compact, perhaps a different design is needed for the wire terminal block which would be much more redundant. You could also use some sort of special foam or glue that is applied to the wires and it insulates the wires terminal block. I would then check a continuity test before and after for no shorts when it goes inside the glass fixture, the foam or glue would prevent the wires at the terminal block to not touch short circuit or move. The amount of effort you put into this is really astounding.
incredible amount of patience and persistence👍 .
Maximalni respekt ! Deda byl starej harcovnik z VUSTu, za tohle by te miloval ! Zlaty rucicky !
Amazing work, bro. I know from your perspective you had a lot of trouble, but you did things that 99% of us would never be able to even attempt. Very cool.
I hope that someday we will have the technology to make our own tubes/valves much like 3d printing works today. There are so many esoteric tubes that are no longer made, and one of these days we will no longer be able to find parts to keep all of our cool old hardware working. :
I celebrate your perseverance and success! This is a beautiful thing that deserves to exist. Great job manifesting dream to reality.
Looks good. Great progress! I think a good way to do it is a ring of small jet in a ring or circle with 360 degree coverage or maybe a small “window” to see. Either more jets or bigger. More I think is better to isolate the heat to smaller area on the glass. More jets spreads out heat better for production.
Beautiful work. I was completely engrossed. "Endeavor to Persevere" Dalibor.
It looked *LIKE* it was from a professional factory.
Sir, you sell yourself short. Small=/=unprofessional!
~13:00
That glow reflection from the back disk looks great... with the zero digit almost like Sauron's eye! :)
Amazing, glad to see the working prototype! Looking forward to another episodes. Also I like you are holding to a saying:"Golden czech hands" as I see many items in your workshop custom made.
Hi! Great to see that big thing glowing! My heart jumped about as much as yours when you knocked that stem off! I've done the same thing! Now, on the glowing connecting wires. You already know the painting the ceramic glue on the wire. Too tedious for production of course. What I have tried is stretching some tubing to make a very thin fine capillary that the wire barely fits through. This can be easily bent to shape while assembling the tube using a very small tip torch. The glue can be used to fix any small spots. I worry about residual stress in the front window that might not crack the glass until winter. I just finished a CRT with a 3 inch window. It sealed perfectly but several days later it had cracked.
I’m so happy you are keeping the Nixie tubes alive! This is just beautiful work. I’ve got a small nixie clock I built a few years ago and it always makes me happy to see it glowing away. Maybe I’ll buy some from you, but I might need to take a second mortgage out. :)
Looking good! Can't wait to see the beautiful end result.
Absolutely amazing video!
I love nixies and plasma lamps 💕
I think I swore more when that pipe broke than you did. 😇😁👍
Great work on what you have achieved. Your Glass tube work is very interesting to watch and hope you have good luck in your next one. Cheers from Australia
This work is incredible. When I first saw the Making of a Nixie Tube film is vowed to buy one of these beautiful clocks once I has some spare cash (come on investments... mature!)
Imagine interning at this place, the skills you would learn.
So exciting!
Thank you, Dalibor! This was awesome to watch. Break the Problem!
jackson
Amazing, good luck to solve the problems and turn it into a working solution! Thank you
Your work is incredible as always.
Know that we support you in many different ways :)
I really missed the chat on hackaday. The whole world of hackers wants you to succeed Dalbor! Please don't forget that!
People like you give me faith that the human race isn't completely worthless.
Thank you so much for showing us the science and technology behind making these, for the most part so transparently.
I really wanted to ask on the hackchat- is there any physical limitations to making a gigantic nixie tube, say, 1 foot tall? Is there a limit with the physics and the way these physically work that actually limits their size? If so, what are the issues that do?
You're amazing!
Great beautiful result!
And i remember such mistakes in my glass blowing experience...
StuffMadeHere has some phenomenal content on sheetmetal pressing using 3d printed and improvised hardware, look up his videos!
"looks like from a professional factory"...you are a professional factory! :D
This video was amazing! Riveting from start to finish! Thank you for sharing your challenges and progress with us. Ever since I found your business a few years ago, I was worried it would disappear, and the art would be lost again. But watching this, I know that the artisan spirit is not dead. Thank you.
Чувак ,ти геній ,я дивлюсь твої відео ще з 2010-го року ,бажаю тобі якомога більше замовників!
I don't know what you're doing for eyewear, but for gas welding aluminum , which has the same sodium flare issues you see when glass blowing, i use a #3 or #5 pair of green safety glasses that take a prescription insert, which i had made with a non prescription lense (i could have had a prescription one made as well) in a "sodium flare polycarbonate" material. I was told to do this by the manufacturer of the lense material as the purple or blue lenses block the sodium flare but not the infrared which can lead to cataracts. So they told me to back it up with the green. It works great and the sodium flare just disappears. For glass work the green may or may not be necessary.
Field gradient stuff seems maybe applicable here? Essentially try going to a larger gauge wire (or maybe even tape/strips?) so voltage drops are more concentrated in your element and not in the wire to it?
Bike inner tubes are a great source of rubber sheeting material for small pieces
dobry trik na kontrolovane prasknutie skla tam kde je skrabnute, je nahriat koniec sklenenej tyce do zerava (ale nie tak aby sa prilepila) a dotknut sa konca skrabanca, ak prasklina neobehne celu rurku na prvy krat, staci zopakovat ;)
18:47 now you are just flexing :D
amazing work i really enjoy watching the manufacturing process
just a suggestion why not double the wire (the problem with the ceramic wire glowing) making the connection between the digit and the cup with 2 parallel ceramic wires spotwelded together at the ends and twisted around each other..
thank you for the amzing content
I'm surprised you can press so hard on a 70% infill regardless of the number of perimeters :)
Also, I'm pretty sure the default number of perimeters on PLA is 2 :)
Thanks for the inspiration, never realised how much pressure I can work with with these 3D printed parts..
Have you considered making your own insulation for the wires? you could use the same ceramic material you use to separate them, and simply coat those wires in it once they're tig welded in place. Adding that insulator between the connecting plates might also help reduce arcing.
Also, check out the channel "glasslinger". They've done some neat work on nixie tubes and also do a lot of tube replicas.
Maybe you can get some tips from them on how to reduce arcing!
Somebody has seen me! Wow! That's a new one!
@@glasslinger I've been following your channel since before the kitty nixie tube!
I think you can get away with much thinner forming tools and safe a lot of filament in the process.
I made a couple PLA forms to use in a DIY press - well below 20T, but hundreds of kilos for sure.
After my inital tools worked well with a 10mm bottom I cut the bottom thickness down step by step and noticed that it works just the same with a 3mm base thickness but printed at 100%.
the problem with the wire is the thin insulator you get a step in dialectic from wire to vacuum and this creates extremely high fields wich lead to the lighting up of the neon, the only way is a thicker Insulator or one with much lower dialectic constant. maybe you can also optimize your electric flied and stay below the ignition, you have more or less a design not a process problem, looking forward
Described similar idea in czech above. The issue is not the step per se, its the E field gradient inside the insulator not being big enough such that the E field magnitude at its surface is below the strike voltage of the glowing discharge with sufficient margin. And yes, Er of the insulator implies inversely proprotional thickness needed compared to free path in the tube gas. Unfortunately most of the anorganics useable here won't be below Er of ~4, so quite thick in any case. Electrostatic shield at intermediate voltage to keep the local field gradient low enough is a fix. Rearrangement of the mechanical construction is needed in any case.
I am failing so see why the glowing discharge is sustained on the surface of the cerawire given its bulk and surface resistvitity is big enough - it should accumulate the surface charge and hence cancel out the E fied gradient partially increasing the E field drop trough the bulk of insulator. Either there is equilibrium established at some low leakage current but sufficient enough to maintain the glow or surface contamination is present perhaps?
@@Konecny_M yes correct especially oxides have quit high ɛr. contamination is possible the resistances needed are quite high, and also i guess that must have also a porous surface and cracks so no Continuos insulator. The voltages are not that high but you cant get something like tripple junctions, something i have to be careful for high voltage in space for example, also cold Emissions are possible if the surface is rough but i think the voltage is to low, but all depends on field strength. Also in a partial pressure atmosphere as in a Nixie things can be much more tricky. surface contamination is also still a possible problem maybe it gets better over time when most of it will evaporate. but that can be easily testet in a simple test tube where you can also resistivity heat the wires in vacuum.
Thank you for the comment, I will focus on the E distribution and potential gradient in the next video. I am getting more into that right now. Regards!
I really respect the Labour and skills here. A CO2 laser tube can be crafted in that workshop?
Wow😲 Amazing video ❣️❣️
Wow, you did a great effort! I watched this video with great interest and hoping you would succeed. Anyway a bold effort. 👍
It hurt me when you said, "it looks like from a professional factory." Your setup IS a professional factory! Your work is absolutely gorgeous and much better than that of mass-produced factories.
Before sealing glass tube maybe is good to build some box fulfilled with gas for testing.
Can you use the nixie tubes with different gases? Also have you considered a display with enough digits to display epoc time? Might be a good attraction for programmers.
Man, that's amazing!
Never thought that 3D-printed press forms can withstand 20t pressure.
You need to watch this chap!! He delves into this and also wooden forms. ua-cam.com/channels/j1VqrHhDte54oLgPG4xpuQ.html
Impressive ! the next one was better I think.
Your channel gives me hope that in the future, CRT rebuilding will become viable again. At some point someone will have to see the point of not letting this technology die...
The sad part is that the last CRT rebuilder in the usa only just shut down recently.
So frickin' awesome Dalibor that new double line cathode is amazing!!! It looks so awesome. You did it man!!!
Is glow a technical problem (like can cause current jumps or something) or aesthetic? If latter maybe tinted glass for the back part of the tube and call it a day?
2:00
Can the metal to be formed be attached tightly to a strong frame?
That should eliminate the metal bending into shape and only allow stretching.
I think that would eliminate the wrinkles in the finished part.
I guess I’d experiment with vacuum sputtering/deposition of insulators onto the wires or something like that. Would be a right pain though, and likely not very flexible, so I guess I’d lean towards making the connecting wires solid rods instead of flexible wires. But I’m not sure, that sounds like it would really mess with your workflow.
The ceramic layer is evidently insufficient to handle the full 200V or whatever your tube is running at. Or even 100V. Maybe it’s designed for contact with a conductive solid, but the insulating material is somewhat porous and hence conductive fluids can short it at much lower voltages. Would make sense if there’s tiny cracks or holes all over the insulation considering it’s flexible. I’d maybe suggest PTFE insulated wires instead, but that would quite possibly offgass too much and ruin the gas mixture. Hey, maybe fluorides would give an interesting color to your digits!
At 22:25 the brightest part of the ceramwire is the part that’s bending significantly, which would lean towards proving my hypothesis. Though to be sure you’d need to look at the inside and outside of a bend, expecting the outside to have more openings in its insulation.
Another potential fix would be just covering all the cathode wires with a solid conical anode, so even if they glow you can’t see them. Bit of a poor solution though, especially if you like looking inside your nixies or care about quiescent current.
I wonder how they used to tackle this issue?
Nixie tubes have a beauty and aura that is unmatched by anything else. Something about them is just mesmerizing.
I have a question for you: why is number 1 digit is always divided into 2 parts, instead of being one solid piece? Thank you very much if you will read and reply me. Anyways, I really love your work, and the final products Look sooo good!
"Looks like it's from a professional factory" as if it isn't. :v
ikr :D
Hes really modest in his self assesment
I was literally smiling when I saw it light up. Great stuff Dalibor, this project has been super exciting to watch.
Да! Yes you finely did it! :D
Did your solvent vapors strip more of your cable insulation than you wanted?
most likely....
I mean does sodium hydroxide have a low vapor pressure? Its basically multen salt right? I dont think there would be much vapors
So what's your next project going to be, building your own CRT from scratch?
Ah pump stem repair accidents! Done that myself a few times, trying to crack it off neatly and taking out a chunk of envelope. Even more frustrating is when you tip if off badly right at that last step and the seal implodes and destroys the vacuum or it just forms poorly and you know it will be fragile and crack in a few days. I like to pull two constrictions in my pump stems for big and hard to handle tubes before I pump them, then I seal at the one closest the pump 1st and then put the tube in a better position to come back with a crossfire torch or otherwise carefully make the final seal closer to the envelope. I also condense the glass a little in the constriction and/or use a thicker wall tube for the pump stem to make the sealing collapse more controllable.
Thought: Can you use a slot at one end of the digit support instead of two pins to give it a bit of thermal expansion tolerance? I gather the insulator stack is tight and the friction may be two high to let the metal slip in the slot? The unsupported digit size seems large, what is the spacing? What are the chances of the digits touching with thermal expansion and mechanical abuse?
Have you decided yet where to place the getter in the H-tube?
“from a professional factory” Hope you know you are a professional factory!!! Maybe get a small diamond cutting wheel to cut the glass... Congrats on the progress of the prototype! Teflon tubing on cathode leads???
i love the hipsters loving this old shit
Some isolation needed. Good luck
I hear familiar camera autofocus crackling. Are you using canon?
Hey i have a few ideas
For bending when heated :you can tension parts whit springs
For insulation :as you did in keysight tube using glass might be a good idea but it will be a lot harder to work whit
Hi Dalibor. I've been following your channel for a couple of months now and I can appreciate how frustrating it can be after putting all that hard work into play and then finally hook-up the power with a vague feeling of disappointment when the numeric elements don't light up. Is it possible that the spot welds on the meshes are shorting because of the spacer material being too close together? Also, as the lathe process spins quite fast, is this putting stress on the spot welds or something? I'm just throwing general ideas and observations at you because I think that the work and investment you've accomplished so far, is fantastic and inspiring. Please don't lose faith in what you are doing because the rewards will be stunning! 😁👍
Have you thought about making a clock like this, that would be so cool. But im sure you've already made one lol
Try doubling the wire to each one and it will handle twice the current and not glow.
A little suggestion - you setup the digits on 2 shafts. It look nice but with this size its risky to short circuit by any movement applied to the lamp, probably even vibration of closing the door can cause a lot of sparks and dead electronics. You could try to avoid this by setting up digits on 4 or 6 shafts(cross or hexagon).
I was thinking the same. Digits of this size should have better support. But designing such digits might be issue. Maybe some insulated support wire stretching from side to side?
@@Papinak2wow I didn't think about it first, but you totally right. Digits are not symmetrical and it is impossible to set it on 4 supports. I can imagine few solutions but all of them required really Hight-tech stuff and very hard to made by hands.
I think I heard the collective cry of people around the world at 15:55. My heart definitely cracked!) Props for keeping your cool!
pane Dalibore obohadte svuj stream titulky pro decy jako jme my vim ze zakaznici budou vetsinou z ciziny ale me je 63 roku a elektronky je nas zivot budte od te lasky a ksyz uz nemuzete delat vicejazycnou verzi dejte tam alepon titulky
dekuji Pavel Svoboda
Zdravím pane Svoboda, já o to Dalibora prosím už hodně dlouho :-) ale má toho tolik že jsem rád i za titulky v angličtině a musím trpět automatický překlad :-D
Jako nadšenec pro digitrony a hlavně také pro Daliborovu neskutečnou touhu dosáhnou dokonalosti v tomto "zapomenutém" oboru sleduji každé jeho nové video i kdyby bylo v Mandarínštině. Oželím češtinu za to že to příště bude svítit jak má :-D
@@camper6285 jasně taky to tak beru jsem už dosti starý a tuto éru si pamatuji ale skusit jsemto musel
Přeji hodně zdravi a ať vidíme hodně videí Svoboda
@@BenyWoT Děkuji, nápodobně.
I really appreciate you sharing your learning and methods with us. The fact that you have to create so much of the tooling for what you do is impressive. It can be very inspirational too, considering how much 3d printing and CAD work your doing these days. Which has become so accessible to the everyday public.
Pretty neat watching you experiment trying to develop processes that solve issues with your build.
The shop I work as we don't have the breadth of equipment you do but I will still on occasion have to create jigs, fixtures and methods for making stuff for our customers. We work with simple common plastics such as acrylic, polycarbonate, acrylonitrile butadiene styrene, polyvinyl cloride, polyvinyl ethylene and a few others.
We generally don't heat the stuff much above its glass-transition state when bending and certainly don't use temperatures such as you use but it is still fascinating to see the similarities in material behaviour.
That giant tube looks awesome to my eyes. Nice job at a complex fabrication!