INCOGNI collectrs and sells your data themselves. Test a blank email address and phone number witht hem, they will "detect" it in multiple brokers databases, when in fact they will be sharing the data. Also, by far, most spam does not come from official/regulated sources, so the impact will likely be negligible at best.
I only hope their is and would be an oxygen ejection/confinement/extinguishing system enough for any airliner to land at any destination which professional pilots deemed suit. Just like a strict SOP procedure & circumstances that would carried in fuel leak/dumping. Or perhaps auto immediately engage to eject what ever(i.e. The whole tank) catches fire. Not sure, but Put the tank close to reach and able to manually extinguish it might ..?be probable solution?non to say the least? I'd like to know you expertise commentary/opinion😅how you'd think😊🎉 It's very sad & unfortunate to see air disaster happening consecutive ending/(about the fresh start of should be another celebrative year) of most recent years -one/2 Japan & one Jeju Korea.
Well done Mentour! This must have been extremely difficult for you as it is the worst nightmare of any flight crew but you did such a professional job.
as an Arabic speaker I would like to give some insight about 41:20 the phrase the person said is likely "استغفر الله" (astaghfir Allah) which literally means "I ask for forgiveness O Allah", Muslims usually say this when experiencing a sadly shocking situation, or when angry as a way to calm them down. if it were their last prayer the person would most likely say The Shahada which is something all Muslims wish to say just before dying. so the person saying "I ask for forgiveness O Allah" rather than The Shahada likely means that they will try to do something and are not going to give up yet.
I just love current state of UA-cam. You can produce outstanding documentaries with lots of technical information moderated to the masses as opposed to dull sensationalism in TV which doesn't explain abaolutely anything in 60 minutes although they are produced by massive teams. You're amazing and thank you for your work!!!
Several times, UA-cam has caused significant problems for channels when large companies have filed complaints against them. Money rules, and UA-cam has followed the companies' demands without any proof that these channels have done anything wrong.
@@rickwhite4137yea was about to say it’s not the current state of UA-cam; it’s modern tech and the fact that UA-cam as a platform hasn’t been quite sufficiently wrecked by Google to prevent this content from being a thing lol
One of the beloved schoolteachers from my area was on this flight. She had saved up for years for a chance to see the pyramids. Heartbreaking and so disturbing the story of what happened in the cockpit was suppressed and is not talked about much to this day. Thank you to Mentor Pilot for covering this tragedy many years on.
In my opinion, this channel has overtaken Air Crash Investigation on the TV. MentorPilot is far more interesting, technical and there's no need for unneccessary 'acting', like they do on the TV.
Small correction: The overpressure the crew oxygen system provides is most likely 5 mbar so 5 thousands of a bar. Im an Anesthesiologist so i often deal with airway pressures, usually any pressure in excess of 30mbar is considerd hazardous. From my own experiance i can tell you that 10mbar of positive pressure already feels uncomfortable. I love your channel though - your takes on CRM are always spot on and i think medical professionals can learn a lot from aviation in that respect.
I worked after the end of the inflamable anaesthetic agent age. We still had ether vapourisers on the machines and cyclopropane in the department. The older seniors would demur about our enthusiasm for electrical monitoring, and it strikes me that 100% oxygen plus electrics is a potentially catastrophic situation. How much research and development has gone into our modern aircraft to give us a safe flight? Simply awesome.
5 BAR would just blow the mask from your face. The overpressure is meant to leak from the mask, so that no harmful gases can come into it. Like the hazmat suits.
The distribution system is 5bar. The overpressure is "a few millibars". This can be seen on page 16 of the BEA findings. This is likely the source of the conflation.
The evolution of this channel from interesting plane stuff, to deep dives into crash reports, and now to full blown documentaries has been awesome! The channel has grown up alongside all of us watching it.
One very important thing about 100% Oxygen that hasn't been mentioned, is that when it comes in contact with oil/grease it can cause spontaneous explosion and combustion. You don't need any spark or open flame to ignite it. In technical diving we use 100% oxygen for decompressions and regulators and valves that are exposed to it need to be O2 clean and use special lubricants which are O2 safe. I'm sure that the O2 system in the airplane uses that same procedures, but don't know if that's the case for the rest of machinery. Pure O2 is so reactive that even a greasy napkin from lasagna dinner, if it was close to the source of 100% O2 would be enough to cause the initial flame/explosion.
I think that applies to pure oxygen at high pressure, i.e., in the oxygen tank. I'd expect a pressure reduction valve close to the tank, with approximately atmospheric pressure on the oxygen tubes. (The 5 bar mentioned in the video is probably 5 mbar, as someone else pointed out)
@@hankwangn The system is actually pressurised at 5bar. The overpressure in the mask is a few millibars. This is the exact wording in the report. So there was a misspeak indeed, but the assumed actual case by the commenter wasn't exact either. Page 16 of the BEA report explains the pressure involved.
As a maintenance engineer, we had to use scrupulously clean spanners to work on the O2 system fixtures, certainly not the greasy spanners we use elsewhere on the aircraft.
Huh, that's a fascinating insight, and linking it to a greasy napkin after eating lasagne is extremely interesting as a possible cause. That would explain a great deal.
It’s strange: I’ve known about this flight for years, but my knowledge about the circumstances was severely lacking. It basically boiled down to “it crashed into the sea” and that’s about it. Given the complicated circumstances around the investigation and the facts of the accident itself, it makes sense why this info isn’t necessarily “mainstream.” Thank you so much for laying this all out in a clear, detailed, yet concise way. You and your team continue to do excellent work.
He usually does excellent work but I actually think this is one of his weaker episodes. At 35:52 he flatly contradicts the report he shows on the screen. Smoking as an ignition source was NOT ever conclusively ruled out and in fact remains very plausible given its prevalence amongst Egyptian pilots at the time.
@@vigilante8374 He was talking about the media report, which was unfounded. It is a possibility, of course, but it was a random throw of the dice by the media, and the report you're referring to stated that it can't be confirmed or denied. The media report literally says that it is the sole, main CAUSE for the crash. That's a shot in the dark.
@shams3831 I don't understand how so many people want to argue this point. It's VERY simple. Paraphrasing, he said "The media claimed that the pilots were smoking in the cockpit, but the British Airways report *refuted* this theory". He didn't say "unfounded". He said refuted. And he then highlights a sentence that says the recordings do not confirm OR REFUTE the possibility of the pilots smoking. They both are using this same exact word: refute. This is as clear-cut case of a contradiction as you can possibly get. And it's not a trivial error because there's a big difference between saying something is unfounded and something has been conclusively refuted. (And again it's not a "shot in the dark" given the prevalence of smoking among Egyptian pilots at the time, but that's a side issue.)
@ @ The prevalence of smoking among Egyptian pilots at the time is not enough for a media outlet to claim that it happened with certainty, and that it was the *cause* of the crash, without any evidence. Do I really need to explain this? The fact that you're even arguing this point is very silly. It is a shot in the dark. Even if hypothetically the pilot(s) was confirmed to be a heavy smoker, you do not go "Plane crashed because pilot smoked" Because not only you don't know if he did or not, but you don't even know if it played a part or not, with certainty.
When I was working as a laboratory scientist, we used to use a lot of liquid nitrogen in the lab, and we had low oxygen sensors to protect us against nitrogen leaks going unnoticed. The same thing working in reverse (detecting oxygen significantly above 21%) could warn of oxygen enrichment before it gets too dangerous.
I'm not too sure, because there will be 100% oxygen in the tubes, and once there is failure, it will be to late to safe the plane. Though it probably could decrease response time and help put out a fire, if by then there are ways to cut off the oxygen and extinguish the fire...
This makes sense, a sensor like this near the oxygen supply system may detect some leaks. I guess a small direct application CO2 system could be used to extinguish the fire ... Normally I'd be really concerned about a CO2 system in a confined space, but using a small one to fight an oxygen gas driven fire seems appropriate 😅
Oxygen fires can be surprisingly violent. I remember back in the 60s a story about an explosion on the Philadelphia Naval base which took away about half of a two-story building. Because of the size of the explosion, they brought in Geiger counters, suspecting some kind of atomic event, but that was not the case. Investigation revealed that a new worker had been ordered to clean the gauges for an oxygen tank and had lubricated the gauges with oil prior to reassembling them to the tank. When the valve was opened the oxygen came in contact with the oil and the result was an immense violent explosion. Given that they never figured out how an explosive could’ve been brought onto the plane but a viable theory of how oxygen could’ve caused this accident, it certainly is prudent to address the issue that can be corrected.
Oh no. The test button of the oxygen supply was reported to get stuck. Perhaps someone did put some grease there to solve the problem. Could have been a cause of the tragedy.
This reminds me so much of the EgyptAir 990 investigation. Politically, the Egyptian government could not accept the actual conclusion that it was a deliberate act of suicide/murder by one of the pilots. So they suggested all sorts of wild impossible scenarios rather than accept the overwhelming evidence of what actually happened. It's sad that we live in a world where politics are more important than facts.
@@balibatmannnot really confirmation bias, which is interpreting things to suit your pre-conceived view, in this case it would be politically motivated, that is, the government is fully aware of what occurred, but due to political reasons, won’t admit it. That is also the likely scenario regarding Malaysia Airlines flight 370 too. People with knowledge of the investigation have reported that the Malaysian government knows that the likely cause was murder/suicide but because the pilot allegedly responsible was Muslim and it is an Islamic country, it is believed the Malaysian government has done what it can to cover up the evidence or prevent the location of the aircraft (by removing funding for the investigation). This is not confirmation bias, but a political coverup, and I’d suggest Egyptian pride would mean they don’t want the truth to come out.
Pure oxygen fuelled fire - truly a nightmare situation. I work with gas safety as part of my job as a safety officer at my university, and even though we use hydrogen, carbon-monoxide and other flammable and/or toxic gasses, it is the pressurised pure oxygen that I'm most concerned about. The reason is as stated in this video, once a fire starts in pure oxygen systems, you can not put it out (as was also witnessed in the apollo 1 tragedy). One of the reasons is that the fire can burn inside valves and tubing, so even if you empty a CO2 extinguisher on the fire, there is no guarantee it will work. May the crew and passengers of this flight rest in peace.
Agreed. A horrible nightmare. What I find most frightening is that - probably - no one did anything wrong. No incompetent employees, no evident lack of maintenance. Yet, when the problem was discovered, the crew didn't stand a chance. We have seen several Mentour Pilot documentaries, where the pilots kept fighting to the end, whether the end was a triumph or a disaster. In this case, they didn't even have a chance to fight. This one could keep me awake tonight.
Wow, what a shocking story. Even disregarding which version is correct it gives me goosebumps thinking about the situation the passengers and crew must have felt on board! Thank you once again for your incredible work!
Fascinating that Egypt has had multiple instances of disputed causes of accidents regarding Egyptair 990, flash airlines in 2004, etc. Different motives abound between all three accidents, but really interesting.
And now we have news about the Egypt DivePro Liveaboard ship sinking, where survivors report being pressured by authorities to sign statements exonerating the operator. This does not paint Egyptian safety regulation in a good light.
With suspected murder/suicide involving a flight crew member that's happened before with SilkAir. And there's a little sign of that possibly with China Eastern with almost 3 years of radio silence from China but the NTSB stating that the dive was pilot generated (as to why is what we don't know). Maylaysian Air which is even more murky b/c plane's not been found. Multiple theories still in play b/c without a plane and the boxes it's hard to even investigate it. Which is why it was a bit shocking when French authorities came forward as quickly as they did about the Germanwings plane crash being a deliberate act of murder/suicide by the first officer. I think one reason was that the CVR recording was so shocking to listen to or read the transcript (and one of the most ever imo) and at some point that would be revealed. Pilot murder/suicide is SO rare especially in commercial flight when it does happen (and pilots tend to have their health monitored more often) but we've seen in incidents like the man who tried to pull controls while deadheading in the cockpit and the Jet Blue pilot subdued by passengers that these are human beings here not robots or computers. Something we always need to remember. Sometimes they need help in ways that don't strip them of their livlihoods imo.
I'm m so grateful for your channel. I have lived for 11 years in Ireland and visited my family once a year in Germany. I'm not an experienced passenger. For years now, I have watched your videos and gotten information about what's going on behind the scenes. At first, I got a bit angry about other passengers when they ignored the instructions. But now, I try to inform my seat neighbours why this happened and where it comes from. Make them aware of what happened before it was implemented. The most think it is annoying to listen, but after I explained that, they looked around and saw how dangerous it would be if something happened. Thanks for all
I lost a friend in this crash. I knew him since 1994, we studied engineering and he was a brilliant engineer and very successful professional afterwards.
Here's the timing for this video - I've been binge-watching your old and seen videos because YT is boring, and then I get this when I refresh the feed. Thank you Peter!
This one reminded me of the Apollo 1 tragedy. The oxygen fire occurred on the ground, but the pressure from the fire sealed the doors shut and making them impossible to open from the inside. The outside was bolted shut. The audio from the incident is absolutely gut-wrenching.
An O2 saturated environment with an electrical short makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Fire will burn out of control before you have to time to realize it. The more we can learn about this accident, the better. Thanks Peter!
Surprised he did not mention Apollo 1. The crew was dead in about fifteen seconds. It is why all US spacecraft now use oxygen nitrogen atmospheres instead of low pressure pure oxygen.
@pondking2801, that's exactly what I was thinking. Except in the case of Flt 804, they really had no warning that O2 was saturating the flight deck. So this was a total surprise...and by the time they figured out what was wrong, it was too late.
It is worth noting that the floor of the Meditteranean is littered with wartime wrecks of both aircraft and ships, all with considerable quantities of explosives on board. This can contaminate wreckage and remains from crashes, making the existence of trace residue inconclusive unless a full reassembly of the wreckage is possible and the exact path for the explosion is mapped by both the presence of residue on some parts, the absence on others, and the characteristic damage associated with an explosion also moving outwards from the focal point.
@@PianoGesang There actually was a crash in the North Sea between Norway and Denmark where exactly that contamination caused some confusion (and wild speculation from the press, of course). I just wish I could remember the details. Swedish charter going to Germany with company employees for the launch/naming of their company's latest ship, I remember that.
I found it - Partnair Flight 394, 8th September 1989, caused by counterfeit parts, and I was mistaken - it was Norwegian, not Swedish. The shipping company that had half of its HQ staff aboard was Wilhelmsen Lines. The most likely source of the contamination was the Battle of Jutland in WW1. The outcome was that there was very aggressive prosecution of counterfeit parts brokers for years and many major airlines and even the US Air Force found fake parts in their stocks - so even AF1 had some, which meant that the US was uncomfortable prosecuting users, but jumped hard on suppliers.
@@phillee2814 I remember the counterfeit parts, that's just insane to me, that they could end up in the maintenance facilities of major airlines and air forces. At least they're convincing enough so most of the aircraft don't fall out of the sky... most of us have probably statistically flown in an aircraft with fake parts. I looked at some numbers, 170 accidents and incidents between the mid 70s and 90s. 24 crashes between 2010 and 2016 (7 fatalities and dozens of injuries). All the safety practises become useless, when they attach the stabiliser with knock off bolts... suspiciously cheap components? Sure build a shed or a questionable PC but maybe not an airliner... I do think they implemented some extensive measures to keep track of parts, which has to cost a fortune but once it's up and running it's easy to add new stuff to the inventory.
Amazing and inbiased overview Petter, I won't say anything here, but I can consider two reasons why both sides may dismiss the others conclusions - however, my respect for the BEA has increased for their determinmation to continue the investigation. Glad to see the Egypian air crash team attached the BEA report as an addendum - you have to wonder why they would do that if they were 100% sure it was a bomb. You and the team do an amazing job keeping us all informed. Thank you.
It’s possible that the Egyptian team was pressured into accepting this bomb theory to further a political agenda by somebody in the government or the army. Things like this are not unheard of in Egypt, sadly. Attaching the BEA report might have been the only thing they could have done without jeopardising their jobs or even freedom. I’m speculating here but I don’t think the Egyptian accident investigators are idiots and yet their report seems strangely biased.
The addendum probably got snuck in without the supervisor noticing before publication and someone was fired for this, would be my guess.It's not a minor thing to completely contradict your own agency in that political climate. The Egyptian investigators arent incompetent, they answer to the government, same as everyone else in Egypt. They might be some of the people most passianote about getting the truth out but unable to. The denials of international interpretations of Egyptian... airborne adventures tend not to come from investigarors but their bosses or dear lea... I mean the president himself if the mur... First Offcer was a buddy of his back in the Top Gun days. Rememher that next time your flying with Tom Cruise. He might be able to get away with turning you into a fireball. Legally anyway.
@@221b-l3t Posting for the sake of posting as if you know what you are talking about, stating some bleeding obvious comments as if others are ignorant of other cultures and making Facebook style allegations is not helpful to informed or intelligent discussion. If you listened to Petter, the original report was completed by the Egyptian Prosecutors office, which are not aircrash investigators, the final report by the Egyptian Air Crash team will clearly be very politically swayed but clearly they have sufficient autonomy to be in a position to add the BEA report as an alternative without fear of repercussions, the report would not be released without very senior approvals.
he already is making a "Netflix series" you just watched it here, and trying to produce this for any mainstream broadcast would only serve to lower the quality.
@@ARockRaider I agree. Streaming services would argue it needs more drama/re-enactments and less technical jargon. The two million of us here will happily keep our (relative) secret from those who don't understand how fantastic this channel is.
This flight has been on my mind for years, and I felt upset at the lack of information/conflicting information about what had happened. This might be your best video yet Petter, thank you for the very thorough explanation about this tragic accident.
Egypt have a track-record of being less than honest in crash investigations, most notoriously EgyptAir 990. For that reason I'd be less than enthusiastic about flying on an Egyptian airline. Honesty is the bedrock of a safety culture, without it no lessons or the wrong lessons are learned from accidents and there's nothing to prevent a repeat performance.
In Dec 2023 had a layover in Egypt on my way to Abu Dhabi and the connecting flight was and Egypt Air A320 Neo. halfway through the flight I smelled cigarette smoke, I hate the smell, and asked the lady next to me if she also smells it. At first she said no, and then 2 seconds later she confirmed that was indeed cigarrete smoke. I knew about this crash beforehand and also the ban on pilots smoking in the cockpit. This just confirmed to me that they still smoke on the planes, and its probably the pilots!
@@OomGielie i have caught several passengers in aircraft toilets smoking. Although smoking is not a good ideal its not the start of every fire in an aircraft, in fact its harder than you think to start a fire in an aircraft with a cigarette.
@@OomGielie The investigation clearly stated that no evidence was found of smoking inside or outside the cockpit [36:02]. What you experienced is called confirmation bias where people tend to "confirm" an isolated and unrelated incident using unrelated or contradictory evidence. It is very possible you smelled the ashes flying off a heavy smoker's clothes or personal items. It might have even been the lady sitting next to you who refused to acknowledge the smell at first probably out of embarrassment or offence. Either way pilots are professionals, mostly with families and loved ones, who wouldn't be so inclined to risk their and their passengers' lives for a cigarette.
The rarity of these incidents probably doesn't justify any changes, but if I were designing a plane from scratch I'd probably have separate oxygen systems for pilot and co-pilot. In the event of a leak, you could vent the faulty system outside of the aircraft, and go retrieve one of the portable oxygen cylinders in the event of a decompression. In the event of an oxygen fire, you'd start the venting and open the outflow valves to depressueize the aircraft. Once the oxygen tank was empty the fire would go out or be much easier to control at cruising altitude.
I can only agree with other commenters that this is one of the best accident explanations I've viewed on your channel to date. The effort your team put into it is clearly visible. Glad to hear that a cigarette appears to have been ruled out as a possible cause. Some years ago I flew Egyptair business class from Cairo to JFK. At some point, I detected a trace of cigarette smoke (which I'm very sensitive to) wafting through the forward cabin. As I hadn't seen anyone enter the lavatory for some time, I asked the flight attendant if it might be coming from the closed cockpit. She replied: "Yes, it was possible because it's a security issue ... the pilots might get nervous if they don't smoke!" I later learned that, at least on some airlines (e.g. some Chinese carriers and, evidently, Egyptair), smoking in the cockpit is at the discretion of the captain (and not bound by regulation). I try to avoid them.
To me this is the most horrifying and scary of all the shows you've done. The thought of being trapped in a burning plane is beyond a nightmare for me.
I'm not a pilot and I don't work with planes in any way. However, I love this channel and am excited for each episode. I fly quite a bit for my job and you'd think watching these stories would make me anxious but it has the opposite effect. I spend a lot of flight time thinking of systems and processes the pilots are engaged with, and I never get mad if they take some extra time with maintenance, etc. Great stuff!
NOBODY does it like you, man. You’re in a league of your own with the quality you’re producing. I hope the business side of this channel is huge for you because you’re giving us some amazing content. Thank you!
The world of aviation is undoubtedly quite fascinating and scary at the same time. I learn so much new every video. Thank you Mentour for being my mentor.
This was a mishap I hadn’t heard about. When I started watching I thought it was going to be a different Egyptair aviation disaster, until I heard the age of the Captain. One of the best videos I’ve ever watched on any media. I was gripped by the story. This was an individual take on an incident that didn’t just try to drum up support for one of two explanations, it invited thoughts based on a professional, individual take on an accident and was put forward in a mature, intelligent way that was a joy to listen to.
I was actually surprized to find out that no final report existed on this until a few months ago. There are already multiple videos on it, even a TB documentary if I'm not mistaken. And almost all of them portray "smoking" as the basic culprit for the ignition source (though some do state that this is not 100% certain). 😮 Couldn't the FA have quickly grabbed a fire extinguisher from the galley, since she was present when the fire broke out? Or is the no fire extinguisher in the forward galley (or is there one, but it would have been ineffective against an oxygen fire)?
@@giorginho7mobile As shown in the video, the fire extinguishers are ineffective for oxygen fires. Which begs the question: what is? Once one of these fires start in the cockpit in the air, can ANYTHING put it out short of a crash?
More than the technical presentations, which are awesome, it is your humanity and compassion when reviewing the devastation these accidents cause that make your channel truly great and very watchable. Thank you for remembering the lost and survivors. Thank you for pushing for continued improvements in accident investigation and the industries - manufacturers, airlines, pilot associations, monitoring and regulatory bodies, and training organizations. As someone who is only an occasional passenger, I really appreciate your hard work and dedication to making these excellent videos.
Still hoping to get a podcast on the crash of Northwest Orient Flight 705 one day. A forgotten crash that forever changed the way jet pilots fly their aircraft. Would love to hear a pilot's opinion on this!
Wow, unbelievable. Ive been binge watching these videos for a week straight, rewatching older videos simply because there are so many that i forget what happened! And this morning, as im preparing my coffee and pulling up youtube to start my daily Mentour Pilot videos, i see a brand new video!! That made my day!! Thank you !!!
When I was working in the shipyard, i witnessed a tragic accident with one of my coworker. He somehow managed to open a valve connected to a large bottle with pure oxygen. He burned alive, even though he opened that for a short part of a second. As soon as he opened that valve, oxygen started spreading along his hand, which was covered by an oil. That immidietaly caused a selfignitied fire on his body. And it was evaluating so fast, that nobody could help him. So I can just imagine how was it look like on flying airplane, and how all of that poor people were feeling when that happened...
Heard this story before....always makes me shake my head when the aviation industry keeps trying it's best of find out the how/why/what behind accidents ( with the intention of trying to keep it from happening again more than for the purpose of placing blame), and then some national authority somewhere decides "Nope that answer makes us or our beliefs or our politics look bad so we're going to do everything in our power to say you're wrong" and thus nothing can really be done and people don't get the closure they really deserve and problems can't be fixed EDIT: Widespread media speculation definitely doesn't help at all. Facts? What are facts? They've got deadlines to meet and clicks/views to accrue, who has time for facts?!
However, in this case, it doesn't really make sense that the Egyptian authorities were trying to protect their national reputation. The bomb theory at least implies a possible security failure by Egypt Air that allowed the bomb on board, whereas the oxygen fire would suggest a possible design failure by Airbus, clearly something not under control of Egypt.
Someone from Egypt explained this in one of the comments. As per him, the government wanted to paint a picture of Egypt being the target of outside enemies, etc. Thats why they produced that creepy bomb theory. @@alexandermonro6768
My six year old nephew spent 7 hours building his lego airplane, a gift for his graduation from lower grade. One day when he's a little older, he'll camp with aunty on a Mentour marathon. For now, I don't wanna stress him about plane crashes. I've heard him speak of terms that I've heard on this channel when he flies and lands (on his games 🙂), and I'm happy to let him enjoy that. No doubt I'll be his passenger one day. I'm nowhere near being a pilot, this is a good and extremely educational channel.
Essentially the BEA said the explosives residue is a red herring without significant further investigation. Investigation that the Egyptians didn’t do. Any mining engineers on the flight for example. My late father needed paperwork from his job to pass through security because he worked for the US DOD on old explosives.
And then there's China Airlines 611 - an in-flight breakup in which investigators found traces of explosives. Turns out the bodies and fuselage were rescued from the sea, and boarded military boats - which had been used previously to transport explosives. Later, the in-flight breakup was deemed to metal fatigue on the skin of the aircraft, due to poor maintenance a decade previous to the accident
@@Knirin I'm not sure... I think you may be mixing up with Japan Airlines 123. This repair was not exactly on the pressure bulkhead, but in the skin of the aircraft, under the tail. Both repairs were needed due to a tail strike
As an accadent this very much reminds me of Swissair 111. I was actually always happy that the last moments of 111 where never recorded, because this is the stuff of nightmares.
@@QWETWolfensteini think he already has? Husband of my colleague was on board. Made it very personal for our team. If only they'd gone straight to an airport with no delays 😢
@gryff8400 yes they somehow underestimated the situation. Fire on bord is very dangerous yet somehow pilots underestimate it . I still believe pilots didn't react as they should
I like how you strayed away from your usual accident story telling structure to best describe this specific and rather complicated situation. It certainly made this episode very engaging.
A fire aboard is already one of the worst things that can happen to a plane midflight. This happening in the cockpit, were all the controls are is adding insult to injury.
I asked for this video six month ago ,and I am very grateful you made it . I am Egyptian,and I can confirm that in every aspect of the government decisions, there is a hidden finger of denial and conspiracy theory that only the motive of them rather than accuracy and transparency. We have had a lot of Aerospace accidents in modern history and the reason is not us "the government" ,Unfortunately the victims are always innocent people ... May they rest in Peace .. Also if you may if the final report for Egypt Air Flight 990 MSR990 accident, consider it in one of the upcoming videos.
Man I love your channel, even more this series. I prefer this format where you outline all the narrative, THEN proceed to go into the explanation/cause, something about the suspense is AMAZING
With each Mentour Pilot video, I find it hard to believe they can get much better, and yet they always do. RIP to those aboard Egypt Air 804. Absolutely extraordinary work Petter and team.
With the phenomenal improvements over the past several decades it's horrible and heartbreaking that Egypt Air didn't have the integrity to file a true and thorough report that could have possibly saved lives, rather they tried to simply put the blame on a mystery bomber and hid the truth. I hope there will be some repercussions for this, this industry has been the gold standard for investigation and improvement. I work been working in Quality Assurance for a couple decades now and have learned quite a bit about root cause analysis and putting real and serious actions in place for the betterment and safety of the public. Thank you for the hard work!!
@MentourPilot certainly did! This was a very interesting episode. I couldn't imagine the feeling of dread after being forced out of the cockpit by an oxygen fire during flight. No way to access any kind of control over the aircraft while thousands of feet over the ocean. It's the stuff of nightmares
Imagine being in the front rows, calmly enjoying your flight then seeing the cockpit door open and seeing smoke, fire and hearing "close it close it!" It'd be like a fever dream
The way i see it, i trust the BEA conclusion. About the egyptian report i see two possibilities: 1. Media started talking about the pilots were smoking idea, and in that culture they dont really let high prestiged people like a pilot would be to be shown in a negative way, so they made up an other possibility for the fire. 2. They jugded that since as you mentioned in the video, there was a previous case with bombing threat, they believed that bombing is simply a higher risk, then having another extremely rare oxygen fire, and simply made a report to showcase the bomb threat, ignoring the oxygen system, because they geniuanly believed it is a bigger threat to happen again then the actual things.They saw an opportunity with the fire to do it, Or the mix of the 2, this could also be a reason they published the BEA report unedited as well, they made awarness of the bomb threat, the pilots were not at fault, were not smoking probably, so it was no harm to publish that, but they still kept ther own version, raising awarness of bombthreats partly and partly because i dont think they would just change their report , that would not look good. But this is just my opinion, about the first officer leaving, i wish to believe he left the cockpit if he left to find an accesable extinguisher. Great video as always
I’m a nervous flyer and I LOVE your channel❤ when I watch I feel like I’m facing my fear of flying … not sure though if it helps or it just gives me more things to worry about and get scared about when I’m in a flight 🙈 in any case thank you for your super detailed informative videos. Praying for safety for all Pilots, crews and passengers everywhere always 🙏
I was just about to look for something to put on in the background and then I saw this in my notifications. Perfect timing! These are always the best aviation commentary videos!
Another outstanding story. My only complaint is that these videos are so engaging that I have to find a good time to watch when I don’t have another task that I should be doing.
Egyptian here, I'd say the answer to this question has two sides. On one hand, the country is entirely run by the military, and (for rather obvious reasons) they tend to have paranoid delusions that people are out to get them, and outside forces are out to get the whole country at all times. And these delusions are often instigated and/or propagated by the big boss himself. A good historical comparison is Enver Hoxha from Armenia. On the other hand, pride. Plain and simple. Failure of any kind is simply not something they ever admit, despite it being caused in most cases by some degree of shirking, negligence, cutting corners or some other factor that's entirely preventable. Clearly the TNT attack narrative neatly fits into these two aspects of the mindset of those in power, so no wonder they stuck with it. The fact the final report included the french findings at all is a rare courtesy.
As usual, great job explaining all aspects and potential versions, keeping in mind that the investigation is still ongoing. Probably the worst thing that could happen on board would be a fire, and in the cockpit at that. It's unimaginable what happened to the passengers on board dealing with all this, condolences to the families. Regards and thanks for the episode.
It's interesting because - if one was a sceptic - you would have expected Egyptian investigators to steer away from an explosive device on their flag carrier airline and French investigators to steer away from technical issue on 'their' French aircraft - and yet he we are with the opposite conclusions from each.
You should review the NTSB report on an oxygen fueled fire onboard a Delta 727 in Salt Lake City on 14 October 1989. The fire destroyed the aircraft very quickly and the location and propagation are close to what is postulated in the view. It should be noted how severe and toxic the smoke generated in the fire quickly became.
Love the video, I would enjoy seeing a video on Egypt air flight 990, in 1999 flying out of New York, which was crashed into the Atlantic ocean quite deliberately by one of the pilots killing everyone. remarkably, it seems almost nobody remembers this one
I agree 100% the relief pilot purposely crashed that plane and his prayers were even picked up on the cockpit voice controller. Religion, politics, countries and families shouldn’t get in the way of the truth.
@@tiffinyanderson4403 I believe that the prayer was misinterpreted, the first officer said "twakalt ala Allah" which when translated it means " I rely on Allah" but Arabs especially Egyptian say this prayer when confronting a difficult situation, or basically when leaving their homes at the morning as a prayer to start their day. what I am trying to say is that the prayer may have been misinterpreted and shouldn't be used as evidence
@@ibrahimmohammed1057 I understand that but Gamil el-Batouty the relief first Officer who took over oddly soon in the flight was going to demoted from flying the lucrative and good transatlantic flights by Hatem Rushdy, the chief of EgyptAir's Boeing 767 pilot group. He had numerous reports of sexual offenses and conduct against him from flying and even at the lay over hotel. The captain was asking better begging for him to help pull up but the elevators were split and Gamil continue to push the nose down. The cockpit voice recorder also caught the captain asking Gamil why he shut the engines off. The information is out there from all types of sources and to me it’s a sad situation and I feel bad for all.
Petter, I love this channel and the work that you do. The videos are always excellent and the descriptions thorough. I know that you appreciate when viewers suggest corrections for the videos. I happen to notice that at 27:37 when you are describing the frequency of the events, it should say "between 1 in 10 million..." Instead of "between 1 in 100 million..." The chart that you show prior to this time with the definitions and the frequencies says that "extremely remote" is defined as between 10^-7 and 10^-9 per flight hour. 10^-7 indicates one in 10 million, not 100 million. Again, I enjoy all of your videos in this video is no exception. I don't mean to be hyper-critical. I just want to help you out. Thanks again for all you do. 😊
As a statistics person, I can say that improbable is by no means impossible. Even when the odds are hundreds of million to 1, if you roll the dice enough, it will happen. After all, people win the lottery a few times every year.
Yep. There are about 40 million commercial airline flights a year. So something so incredibly rare that it happens only once every hundred million flights can be expected to happen every 2 or 3 years.
Well you weren't kidding, this was definitely terrifying. There's something about fire that evokes a sense of primal fear in me. I love camppfires and hearths, but seeing a fire where it does not belong is just ... intense. Can't imagine how those pilots must have felt. The sample sound you played was horrifying.
As a volunteer firefighter I can wholeheartedly agree with you. Fire is one of nature's most terrifying powers and we ought to highly respect and fear it.
I take the opportunity to be the first comment to tell thank you deeply for your channel & share with you what I call my “homecoming challenge” I live in South Korea for my master degree, since 3 years, due to circumstances i grown in me HUGE phobia of plane (even watching movies about it makes me sweat) I’m on my 4th year and…all I want is to hug my mom once again in my home country(France)..( who’s 14 hours flight far) Watching your videos teaches me the professionalism of the pilots, how unfortunate events become lessons for better security& learning, + aware of my surrounding etc. Coming back home is my goal and thanks to your channel, it’s inside my healing therapy! I will comment the day I’ll be finally back 🏡 Merci Mentour!
I have been in a car fire and it spreads so quickly, way faster than most ppl imagine. The fire went from the car parked next to mine to mine in less time than I could go back in and get my keys. It ended up burning 5 cars and doing millions in damage to our condo complex before the fire fighters got there and extinguished it. Luckily we lived about 200 feet from the fire department. Absolutely horrifying shit on the ground where you could just back away. Fire in the air? Unimaginably terrifying.
You outdid yourself on this one Petter. Stepped it up once again! What a terrifying incident and one that I hope the industry learns from as always. I also wonder what if any consequences there should be for the Egyptian aviation authorities for essentially covering this up.
Petter, I've been watching your content nearly from the beginning and I must say, you've become a master. Your content easily overshadows some of the biggest big-budget disaster-type programs. I'm happy to see you pursuing your other lifes passion which is spreading the joy and respect of aviation to millions. If you think about it, your videos have probably stopped a number of potential accidents by now. I know in the States, civilian aviators who distinguish themselves are given recognition like medals etc. If Sweden does such a thing, you'd certainly be a top candidate.
Incredible story. Sometimes I wonder if there shouldn’t be some sort of ‘quiet time’ every idk 15 mins so pilots can hear things out of the ordinary. I drive trucks and I know A LOT of drivers who have ear buds in the entire time. I don’t operate like that. There are changes in sound that can happen just before a tire blows or a mechanical failure that’s happening. You can’t react until it’s too late if you can’t hear it. Using all your senses is so important even if it’s a 1-1 billion chance.
As young cops in the 80's, you were never allowed to patrol in a car, WITHOUT your front door windows down, as you lost one of the most crucial of your senses, your hearing! If you were ever caught, you got and arse kicking from the shift Sgt! There is that famous NYFD case where a shift commander saves his crew, by unexpectedly screaming evacuate, evacuate, evacuate- seconds before a flash over and the building get engulfed with flames! Put down to the silence of the fire, which he heard and recognised, just before the flash over. Headphones on at your peril!
What a horrible, unsolvable situation faced by this pilots. Must be so hard trying to explain this accident being a pilot yourself, but thank you for your hard work. So sorry for all souls lost in this accident.
Fire onboard... every pilot's worst 'nightmare.' Add the use of lithium ion battery equipment to this mix and it really seems like a good time for flight deck fire suppression system reviews. Thanks for posting.
Big compliment for the quality of this episode, Petter! This one is particularly scary because as safe as aviation is, it's still something that could sadly happen anytime, with not much of a chance to fight back against the huge force of the fire. Also, what the passengers must have seen in the last few minutes from the front of the Airbus makes my skin crawl.
Awesome! I’ve been waiting for you to make a video about this flight. I watch all of your videos because I want to become a pilot in the future, you always give such a deep understanding and represent it all really well. Keep up the good work👍
Very good presentation of the dangers of using 100% pure O2, Petter. Yes, 100% O2 is frighteningly reactive. I remember an O2 Danger demonstration in training decades ago. That day, our instructor took us out into the parking lot, where he had an old Hub Cap off of car with about 200ml of old engine oil in the bottom of it. He cracked the O2 tank and pointed the end of the hose at the used oil from a distance of 10cm. The stream of 100% O2 jetted across the puddle of oil in the hub cap, causing an immediate and vigorous combustion of the old engine oil. IT was frightening and gave us all a good scare. The instructor pointed out afterwards, never ever "smoke" or go near an open flame until any clothing you are wearing has had a chance to "air out" as your clothing may contain or even be saturated with high levels of O2 if your exposure to a 100% O2 steam or atmosphere is a prolonged one. Thank you for a most informative video.
Man, I just watched one of the older accident videos the other day, and I noticed a stark contrast in video quality between that one and this one. Not that the older ones are bad by any means, but holy cow, you guys are doing a great job with these videos. Absolutely do not regret my subscription a couple of years ago.
@@mikko7296 Patrons often get early access, a perk of paying for the channel content, along with those with other methods to fund Petter's excellent productions.
Use the code "pilot" and this link 👉 incogni.com/pilot to get a whopping 60% off the Annual Incogni plan!
Get that bag!
Would love to see you cover egyptair flight 990
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I only hope their is and would be an oxygen ejection/confinement/extinguishing system enough for any airliner to land at any destination which professional pilots deemed suit.
Just like a strict SOP procedure & circumstances that would carried in fuel leak/dumping. Or perhaps auto immediately engage to eject what ever(i.e. The whole tank) catches fire. Not sure, but Put the tank close to reach and able to manually extinguish it might ..?be probable solution?non to say the least?
I'd like to know you expertise commentary/opinion😅how you'd think😊🎉
It's very sad & unfortunate to see air disaster happening consecutive ending/(about the fresh start of should be another celebrative year) of most recent years -one/2 Japan & one Jeju Korea.
This is probably one of the best episodes on this channel. Mature, thorough and honest. Top notch work from the team and Petter
Thank you!
Indeed, exactly.
Yeah, agree. This felt like watching a top tier documentary. Absolutely horrifying, though.
@ Yes. It shows in a dramatic way how quick things can go horribly wrong - and how difficult it can be to figure out what exactly went wrong.
Well done Mentour! This must have been extremely difficult for you as it is the worst nightmare of any flight crew but you did such a professional job.
as an Arabic speaker I would like to give some insight about 41:20
the phrase the person said is likely "استغفر الله" (astaghfir Allah) which literally means "I ask for forgiveness O Allah", Muslims usually say this when experiencing a sadly shocking situation, or when angry as a way to calm them down.
if it were their last prayer the person would most likely say The Shahada which is something all Muslims wish to say just before dying.
so the person saying "I ask for forgiveness O Allah" rather than The Shahada likely means that they will try to do something and are not going to give up yet.
@@lZGamerzI That seems to fit the situation, "sadly shocking."
Thanks for clarifying that!
That's a really interesting insight!
Thank you for the added insight!
bruh had lowkey forgotten egypcians do that allah shite too xD thought they were smarter than that.. pyramids and all
I just love current state of UA-cam. You can produce outstanding documentaries with lots of technical information moderated to the masses as opposed to dull sensationalism in TV which doesn't explain abaolutely anything in 60 minutes although they are produced by massive teams. You're amazing and thank you for your work!!!
Thank you, I'm glad you like our work!
Several times, UA-cam has caused significant problems for channels when large companies have filed complaints against them. Money rules, and UA-cam has followed the companies' demands without any proof that these channels have done anything wrong.
@@rickwhite4137yea was about to say it’s not the current state of UA-cam; it’s modern tech and the fact that UA-cam as a platform hasn’t been quite sufficiently wrecked by Google to prevent this content from being a thing lol
@@rickwhite4137 Changes start tomorrow! (inauguration day)
I haven't had a TV for some 15 years now.....
One of the beloved schoolteachers from my area was on this flight. She had saved up for years for a chance to see the pyramids. Heartbreaking and so disturbing the story of what happened in the cockpit was suppressed and is not talked about much to this day. Thank you to Mentor Pilot for covering this tragedy many years on.
That's so sad to hear. May her soul rest in peace ❤
In my opinion, this channel has overtaken Air Crash Investigation on the TV. MentorPilot is far more interesting, technical and there's no need for unneccessary 'acting', like they do on the TV.
Air Crash is essentially junk TV.
Black Box was better - but Mentour is the most analytical and detailed.
Then Don't watch!
i think he is as good as air crash,, its just him though.
that's the word, analytics,UA-cam is great sometimes
@@offshoretomorrow3346 Yes, I remember Black Box from a very long time ago (1st aircrash program on TV, if I remember correctly) - very good!
Small correction: The overpressure the crew oxygen system provides is most likely 5 mbar so 5 thousands of a bar. Im an Anesthesiologist so i often deal with airway pressures, usually any pressure in excess of 30mbar is considerd hazardous. From my own experiance i can tell you that 10mbar of positive pressure already feels uncomfortable. I love your channel though - your takes on CRM are always spot on and i think medical professionals can learn a lot from aviation in that respect.
When I heard 5 bar I immediately thought that this could not be correct. Thanks for clearing that up, love this community 😊
I worked after the end of the inflamable anaesthetic agent age. We still had ether vapourisers on the machines and cyclopropane in the department. The older seniors would demur about our enthusiasm for electrical monitoring, and it strikes me that 100% oxygen plus electrics is a potentially catastrophic situation. How much research and development has gone into our modern aircraft to give us a safe flight? Simply awesome.
Thanks, that's something that also made me wonder. I inflate my bicycle to close 4 bar, at which point I can't squeeze the tire anymore with my thumb.
5 BAR would just blow the mask from your face. The overpressure is meant to leak from the mask, so that no harmful gases can come into it. Like the hazmat suits.
The distribution system is 5bar. The overpressure is "a few millibars". This can be seen on page 16 of the BEA findings. This is likely the source of the conflation.
The evolution of this channel from interesting plane stuff, to deep dives into crash reports, and now to full blown documentaries has been awesome! The channel has grown up alongside all of us watching it.
One very important thing about 100% Oxygen that hasn't been mentioned, is that when it comes in contact with oil/grease it can cause spontaneous explosion and combustion. You don't need any spark or open flame to ignite it. In technical diving we use 100% oxygen for decompressions and regulators and valves that are exposed to it need to be O2 clean and use special lubricants which are O2 safe. I'm sure that the O2 system in the airplane uses that same procedures, but don't know if that's the case for the rest of machinery. Pure O2 is so reactive that even a greasy napkin from lasagna dinner, if it was close to the source of 100% O2 would be enough to cause the initial flame/explosion.
This is 100% true. Even just high concentrations of O2 can be hazardous. But pure O2 is crazy reactive.
I think that applies to pure oxygen at high pressure, i.e., in the oxygen tank. I'd expect a pressure reduction valve close to the tank, with approximately atmospheric pressure on the oxygen tubes. (The 5 bar mentioned in the video is probably 5 mbar, as someone else pointed out)
@@hankwangn The system is actually pressurised at 5bar. The overpressure in the mask is a few millibars. This is the exact wording in the report. So there was a misspeak indeed, but the assumed actual case by the commenter wasn't exact either. Page 16 of the BEA report explains the pressure involved.
As a maintenance engineer, we had to use scrupulously clean spanners to work on the O2 system fixtures, certainly not the greasy spanners we use elsewhere on the aircraft.
Huh, that's a fascinating insight, and linking it to a greasy napkin after eating lasagne is extremely interesting as a possible cause. That would explain a great deal.
It’s strange: I’ve known about this flight for years, but my knowledge about the circumstances was severely lacking. It basically boiled down to “it crashed into the sea” and that’s about it. Given the complicated circumstances around the investigation and the facts of the accident itself, it makes sense why this info isn’t necessarily “mainstream.” Thank you so much for laying this all out in a clear, detailed, yet concise way. You and your team continue to do excellent work.
Thank you!
He usually does excellent work but I actually think this is one of his weaker episodes. At 35:52 he flatly contradicts the report he shows on the screen. Smoking as an ignition source was NOT ever conclusively ruled out and in fact remains very plausible given its prevalence amongst Egyptian pilots at the time.
@@vigilante8374 He was talking about the media report, which was unfounded. It is a possibility, of course, but it was a random throw of the dice by the media, and the report you're referring to stated that it can't be confirmed or denied.
The media report literally says that it is the sole, main CAUSE for the crash. That's a shot in the dark.
@shams3831 I don't understand how so many people want to argue this point. It's VERY simple. Paraphrasing, he said "The media claimed that the pilots were smoking in the cockpit, but the British Airways report *refuted* this theory".
He didn't say "unfounded". He said refuted.
And he then highlights a sentence that says the recordings do not confirm OR REFUTE the possibility of the pilots smoking.
They both are using this same exact word: refute. This is as clear-cut case of a contradiction as you can possibly get. And it's not a trivial error because there's a big difference between saying something is unfounded and something has been conclusively refuted.
(And again it's not a "shot in the dark" given the prevalence of smoking among Egyptian pilots at the time, but that's a side issue.)
@ @ The prevalence of smoking among Egyptian pilots at the time is not enough for a media outlet to claim that it happened with certainty, and that it was the *cause* of the crash, without any evidence.
Do I really need to explain this? The fact that you're even arguing this point is very silly. It is a shot in the dark. Even if hypothetically the pilot(s) was confirmed to be a heavy smoker, you do not go "Plane crashed because pilot smoked"
Because not only you don't know if he did or not, but you don't even know if it played a part or not, with certainty.
When I was working as a laboratory scientist, we used to use a lot of liquid nitrogen in the lab, and we had low oxygen sensors to protect us against nitrogen leaks going unnoticed. The same thing working in reverse (detecting oxygen significantly above 21%) could warn of oxygen enrichment before it gets too dangerous.
Yes, that might work.
But most important is, you need to bei able to cut off the oxygen.
I'm not too sure, because there will be 100% oxygen in the tubes, and once there is failure, it will be to late to safe the plane. Though it probably could decrease response time and help put out a fire, if by then there are ways to cut off the oxygen and extinguish the fire...
This makes sense, a sensor like this near the oxygen supply system may detect some leaks.
I guess a small direct application CO2 system could be used to extinguish the fire ... Normally I'd be really concerned about a CO2 system in a confined space, but using a small one to fight an oxygen gas driven fire seems appropriate 😅
@@timsippel1845Aircraft typically use halon fire extinguisher due to among other things the issues with CO2 in a confined space.
@@Andreas-du7eg or a way to vent the cylinder to the external atmosphere
I prefer long form content like this. Not instant gratification, like tiktoks. Keep up the great work.
Thank you! That's what we're here for
TikToks. 😬🙄
@@troo_story 🤦🏻♂️
Ok
I prefer a three-course meal. Not instant gratification like chocolate
Oxygen fires can be surprisingly violent. I remember back in the 60s a story about an explosion on the Philadelphia Naval base which took away about half of a two-story building. Because of the size of the explosion, they brought in Geiger counters, suspecting some kind of atomic event, but that was not the case. Investigation revealed that a new worker had been ordered to clean the gauges for an oxygen tank and had lubricated the gauges with oil prior to reassembling them to the tank. When the valve was opened the oxygen came in contact with the oil and the result was an immense violent explosion.
Given that they never figured out how an explosive could’ve been brought onto the plane but a viable theory of how oxygen could’ve caused this accident, it certainly is prudent to address the issue that can be corrected.
Oh no. The test button of the oxygen supply was reported to get stuck. Perhaps someone did put some grease there to solve the problem. Could have been a cause of the tragedy.
This reminds me so much of the EgyptAir 990 investigation. Politically, the Egyptian government could not accept the actual conclusion that it was a deliberate act of suicide/murder by one of the pilots. So they suggested all sorts of wild impossible scenarios rather than accept the overwhelming evidence of what actually happened.
It's sad that we live in a world where politics are more important than facts.
confirmation bias
Same with all Middle/Far Eastern countries. Losing face is to be avoided.
@@balibatmannnot really confirmation bias, which is interpreting things to suit your pre-conceived view, in this case it would be politically motivated, that is, the government is fully aware of what occurred, but due to political reasons, won’t admit it.
That is also the likely scenario regarding Malaysia Airlines flight 370 too. People with knowledge of the investigation have reported that the Malaysian government knows that the likely cause was murder/suicide but because the pilot allegedly responsible was Muslim and it is an Islamic country, it is believed the Malaysian government has done what it can to cover up the evidence or prevent the location of the aircraft (by removing funding for the investigation). This is not confirmation bias, but a political coverup, and I’d suggest Egyptian pride would mean they don’t want the truth to come out.
Sounds just like the guys at my work from egypt, they would never admit they did wrong.
That incident came to my mind as well.
Pure oxygen fuelled fire - truly a nightmare situation.
I work with gas safety as part of my job as a safety officer at my university, and even though we use hydrogen, carbon-monoxide and other flammable and/or toxic gasses, it is the pressurised pure oxygen that I'm most concerned about.
The reason is as stated in this video, once a fire starts in pure oxygen systems, you can not put it out (as was also witnessed in the apollo 1 tragedy).
One of the reasons is that the fire can burn inside valves and tubing, so even if you empty a CO2 extinguisher on the fire, there is no guarantee it will work.
May the crew and passengers of this flight rest in peace.
Respect to the BEA!
Agreed. A horrible nightmare.
What I find most frightening is that - probably - no one did anything wrong. No incompetent employees, no evident lack of maintenance. Yet, when the problem was discovered, the crew didn't stand a chance. We have seen several Mentour Pilot documentaries, where the pilots kept fighting to the end, whether the end was a triumph or a disaster. In this case, they didn't even have a chance to fight.
This one could keep me awake tonight.
Wow, what a shocking story. Even disregarding which version is correct it gives me goosebumps thinking about the situation the passengers and crew must have felt on board! Thank you once again for your incredible work!
Thank you for watching!
G-Forces would have rendered passengers incapacitated before impact 😢
I'd trust the French to be honest way more.
@@matthewalston1226I can only hope so. What an awful thing!!!
As an Egyptian Pilot i am kinda pissed and frustrated, no further comment. Great vid Peter. Thanks for doing what we are unable to do.
Fascinating that Egypt has had multiple instances of disputed causes of accidents regarding Egyptair 990, flash airlines in 2004, etc. Different motives abound between all three accidents, but really interesting.
Indeed
And now we have news about the Egypt DivePro Liveaboard ship sinking, where survivors report being pressured by authorities to sign statements exonerating the operator.
This does not paint Egyptian safety regulation in a good light.
@@j_taylor As an egyptian, expect anything from such a corrupt despicable government. Actually it is a gang.
With suspected murder/suicide involving a flight crew member that's happened before with SilkAir. And there's a little sign of that possibly with China Eastern with almost 3 years of radio silence from China but the NTSB stating that the dive was pilot generated (as to why is what we don't know). Maylaysian Air which is even more murky b/c plane's not been found. Multiple theories still in play b/c without a plane and the boxes it's hard to even investigate it. Which is why it was a bit shocking when French authorities came forward as quickly as they did about the Germanwings plane crash being a deliberate act of murder/suicide by the first officer. I think one reason was that the CVR recording was so shocking to listen to or read the transcript (and one of the most ever imo) and at some point that would be revealed. Pilot murder/suicide is SO rare especially in commercial flight when it does happen (and pilots tend to have their health monitored more often) but we've seen in incidents like the man who tried to pull controls while deadheading in the cockpit and the Jet Blue pilot subdued by passengers that these are human beings here not robots or computers. Something we always need to remember. Sometimes they need help in ways that don't strip them of their livlihoods imo.
Not only with flights, also the origin of the pyramids of Gizeh and the Sphinx knows an Egyptian version and a scientific version....
It always amazes me how investigators can gather so much information from so few sources. Incredibly skilled and experienced teams!
I'm m so grateful for your channel. I have lived for 11 years in Ireland and visited my family once a year in Germany. I'm not an experienced passenger.
For years now, I have watched your videos and gotten information about what's going on behind the scenes.
At first, I got a bit angry about other passengers when they ignored the instructions. But now, I try to inform my seat neighbours why this happened and where it comes from. Make them aware of what happened before it was implemented. The most think it is annoying to listen, but after I explained that, they looked around and saw how dangerous it would be if something happened.
Thanks for all
I lost a friend in this crash. I knew him since 1994, we studied engineering and he was a brilliant engineer and very successful professional afterwards.
Here's the timing for this video - I've been binge-watching your old and seen videos because YT is boring, and then I get this when I refresh the feed. Thank you Peter!
Great to hear! Thanks for being here!
That is "Petter" I think. But yes, I am beside the point. It was a powerful video and one that I have followed since it happened.
Same!
This one reminded me of the Apollo 1 tragedy. The oxygen fire occurred on the ground, but the pressure from the fire sealed the doors shut and making them impossible to open from the inside. The outside was bolted shut. The audio from the incident is absolutely gut-wrenching.
We're coming up on the anniversary of that accident next week I believe.
Why would somebody intentionally choose to listen to the audio…
Good lord.
An O2 saturated environment with an electrical short makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Fire will burn out of control before you have to time to realize it. The more we can learn about this accident, the better. Thanks Peter!
Surprised he did not mention Apollo 1. The crew was dead in about fifteen seconds. It is why all US spacecraft now use oxygen nitrogen atmospheres instead of low pressure pure oxygen.
@pondking2801, that's exactly what I was thinking. Except in the case of Flt 804, they really had no warning that O2 was saturating the flight deck. So this was a total surprise...and by the time they figured out what was wrong, it was too late.
It is worth noting that the floor of the Meditteranean is littered with wartime wrecks of both aircraft and ships, all with considerable quantities of explosives on board. This can contaminate wreckage and remains from crashes, making the existence of trace residue inconclusive unless a full reassembly of the wreckage is possible and the exact path for the explosion is mapped by both the presence of residue on some parts, the absence on others, and the characteristic damage associated with an explosion also moving outwards from the focal point.
Smart and plausible comment! Thank you.
@@PianoGesang There actually was a crash in the North Sea between Norway and Denmark where exactly that contamination caused some confusion (and wild speculation from the press, of course). I just wish I could remember the details. Swedish charter going to Germany with company employees for the launch/naming of their company's latest ship, I remember that.
I found it - Partnair Flight 394, 8th September 1989, caused by counterfeit parts, and I was mistaken - it was Norwegian, not Swedish. The shipping company that had half of its HQ staff aboard was Wilhelmsen Lines. The most likely source of the contamination was the Battle of Jutland in WW1. The outcome was that there was very aggressive prosecution of counterfeit parts brokers for years and many major airlines and even the US Air Force found fake parts in their stocks - so even AF1 had some, which meant that the US was uncomfortable prosecuting users, but jumped hard on suppliers.
@@phillee2814 Also one of the most bizarre crashes for me and an outstanding job by the investigators.
@@phillee2814 I remember the counterfeit parts, that's just insane to me, that they could end up in the maintenance facilities of major airlines and air forces. At least they're convincing enough so most of the aircraft don't fall out of the sky... most of us have probably statistically flown in an aircraft with fake parts. I looked at some numbers, 170 accidents and incidents between the mid 70s and 90s. 24 crashes between 2010 and 2016 (7 fatalities and dozens of injuries).
All the safety practises become useless, when they attach the stabiliser with knock off bolts... suspiciously cheap components? Sure build a shed or a questionable PC but maybe not an airliner... I do think they implemented some extensive measures to keep track of parts, which has to cost a fortune but once it's up and running it's easy to add new stuff to the inventory.
Amazing and inbiased overview Petter, I won't say anything here, but I can consider two reasons why both sides may dismiss the others conclusions - however, my respect for the BEA has increased for their determinmation to continue the investigation. Glad to see the Egypian air crash team attached the BEA report as an addendum - you have to wonder why they would do that if they were 100% sure it was a bomb. You and the team do an amazing job keeping us all informed. Thank you.
Thank you for your kind words!
It’s possible that the Egyptian team was pressured into accepting this bomb theory to further a political agenda by somebody in the government or the army. Things like this are not unheard of in Egypt, sadly. Attaching the BEA report might have been the only thing they could have done without jeopardising their jobs or even freedom. I’m speculating here but I don’t think the Egyptian accident investigators are idiots and yet their report seems strangely biased.
It is in fact an unsolved case, allthought the French narrative adds at least a very important topic to the aviation safety debate.
The addendum probably got snuck in without the supervisor noticing before publication and someone was fired for this, would be my guess.It's not a minor thing to completely contradict your own agency in that political climate. The Egyptian investigators arent incompetent, they answer to the government, same as everyone else in Egypt. They might be some of the people most passianote about getting the truth out but unable to. The denials of international interpretations of Egyptian... airborne adventures tend not to come from investigarors but their bosses or dear lea... I mean the president himself if the mur... First Offcer was a buddy of his back in the Top Gun days. Rememher that next time your flying with Tom Cruise. He might be able to get away with turning you into a fireball. Legally anyway.
@@221b-l3t Posting for the sake of posting as if you know what you are talking about, stating some bleeding obvious comments as if others are ignorant of other cultures and making Facebook style allegations is not helpful to informed or intelligent discussion. If you listened to Petter, the original report was completed by the Egyptian Prosecutors office, which are not aircrash investigators, the final report by the Egyptian Air Crash team will clearly be very politically swayed but clearly they have sufficient autonomy to be in a position to add the BEA report as an alternative without fear of repercussions, the report would not be released without very senior approvals.
Thanks. This was an information, entertaining and gripping telling of the encounter. Thanks for all the effort you put in😁
With the video quality just getting better, you just have to make a Netflix series, I would totally watch it
I totally agree but not on Netflix please
he already is making a "Netflix series"
you just watched it here, and trying to produce this for any mainstream broadcast would only serve to lower the quality.
@@ARockRaider I agree. Streaming services would argue it needs more drama/re-enactments and less technical jargon. The two million of us here will happily keep our (relative) secret from those who don't understand how fantastic this channel is.
Netflix would be a step down in qualtity from this, so please no.
This flight has been on my mind for years, and I felt upset at the lack of information/conflicting information about what had happened. This might be your best video yet Petter, thank you for the very thorough explanation about this tragic accident.
Egypt have a track-record of being less than honest in crash investigations, most notoriously EgyptAir 990. For that reason I'd be less than enthusiastic about flying on an Egyptian airline. Honesty is the bedrock of a safety culture, without it no lessons or the wrong lessons are learned from accidents and there's nothing to prevent a repeat performance.
In Dec 2023 had a layover in Egypt on my way to Abu Dhabi and the connecting flight was and Egypt Air A320 Neo. halfway through the flight I smelled cigarette smoke, I hate the smell, and asked the lady next to me if she also smells it. At first she said no, and then 2 seconds later she confirmed that was indeed cigarrete smoke.
I knew about this crash beforehand and also the ban on pilots smoking in the cockpit.
This just confirmed to me that they still smoke on the planes, and its probably the pilots!
I think Flash Airlines 604 has also still not been fully solved.
As an accadent it mostly reminds me of Swissair 111.
@@OomGielie i have caught several passengers in aircraft toilets smoking. Although smoking is not a good ideal its not the start of every fire in an aircraft, in fact its harder than you think to start a fire in an aircraft with a cigarette.
@@RunawayTrain2502Swiss 111 was solved tho?
@@OomGielie The investigation clearly stated that no evidence was found of smoking inside or outside the cockpit [36:02].
What you experienced is called confirmation bias where people tend to "confirm" an isolated and unrelated incident using unrelated or contradictory evidence. It is very possible you smelled the ashes flying off a heavy smoker's clothes or personal items. It might have even been the lady sitting next to you who refused to acknowledge the smell at first probably out of embarrassment or offence.
Either way pilots are professionals, mostly with families and loved ones, who wouldn't be so inclined to risk their and their passengers' lives for a cigarette.
The rarity of these incidents probably doesn't justify any changes, but if I were designing a plane from scratch I'd probably have separate oxygen systems for pilot and co-pilot. In the event of a leak, you could vent the faulty system outside of the aircraft, and go retrieve one of the portable oxygen cylinders in the event of a decompression.
In the event of an oxygen fire, you'd start the venting and open the outflow valves to depressueize the aircraft. Once the oxygen tank was empty the fire would go out or be much easier to control at cruising altitude.
The voice, the script, the animations, the way you explain things is perfect.
I can only agree with other commenters that this is one of the best accident explanations I've viewed on your channel to date. The effort your team put into it is clearly visible.
Glad to hear that a cigarette appears to have been ruled out as a possible cause. Some years ago I flew Egyptair business class from Cairo to JFK. At some point, I detected a trace of cigarette smoke (which I'm very sensitive to) wafting through the forward cabin. As I hadn't seen anyone enter the lavatory for some time, I asked the flight attendant if it might be coming from the closed cockpit. She replied: "Yes, it was possible because it's a security issue ... the pilots might get nervous if they don't smoke!" I later learned that, at least on some airlines (e.g. some Chinese carriers and, evidently, Egyptair), smoking in the cockpit is at the discretion of the captain (and not bound by regulation). I try to avoid them.
To me this is the most horrifying and scary of all the shows you've done. The thought of being trapped in a burning plane is beyond a nightmare for me.
Documentaries like this-thorough, honest, intentional-are works of art. It’s incredible that this is free to watch and learn from for ordinary folks
I'm not a pilot and I don't work with planes in any way. However, I love this channel and am excited for each episode. I fly quite a bit for my job and you'd think watching these stories would make me anxious but it has the opposite effect. I spend a lot of flight time thinking of systems and processes the pilots are engaged with, and I never get mad if they take some extra time with maintenance, etc. Great stuff!
NOBODY does it like you, man. You’re in a league of your own with the quality you’re producing. I hope the business side of this channel is huge for you because you’re giving us some amazing content. Thank you!
My Sunday just became complete ☺️🙏
Kudos to the Bureau d'Enquêtes et ďAnalyses for their commitment to make aviation safer
The world of aviation is undoubtedly quite fascinating and scary at the same time. I learn so much new every video. Thank you Mentour for being my mentor.
Glad you're enjoying it!
This was a mishap I hadn’t heard about. When I started watching I thought it was going to be a different Egyptair aviation disaster, until I heard the age of the Captain.
One of the best videos I’ve ever watched on any media. I was gripped by the story. This was an individual take on an incident that didn’t just try to drum up support for one of two explanations, it invited thoughts based on a professional, individual take on an accident and was put forward in a mature, intelligent way that was a joy to listen to.
Ever since the Final Report came out, I was hoping you'd make this video. Thanks Petter!
I hope you enjoyed it!
With every plane crash/accident I wonder what Petter will make of it!
Thank you as always x
I was actually surprized to find out that no final report existed on this until a few months ago. There are already multiple videos on it, even a TB documentary if I'm not mistaken. And almost all of them portray "smoking" as the basic culprit for the ignition source (though some do state that this is not 100% certain). 😮
Couldn't the FA have quickly grabbed a fire extinguisher from the galley, since she was present when the fire broke out? Or is the no fire extinguisher in the forward galley (or is there one, but it would have been ineffective against an oxygen fire)?
@@giorginho7mobile As shown in the video, the fire extinguishers are ineffective for oxygen fires. Which begs the question: what is? Once one of these fires start in the cockpit in the air, can ANYTHING put it out short of a crash?
More than the technical presentations, which are awesome, it is your humanity and compassion when reviewing the devastation these accidents cause that make your channel truly great and very watchable. Thank you for remembering the lost and survivors. Thank you for pushing for continued improvements in accident investigation and the industries - manufacturers, airlines, pilot associations, monitoring and regulatory bodies, and training organizations. As someone who is only an occasional passenger, I really appreciate your hard work and dedication to making these excellent videos.
Still hoping to get a podcast on the crash of Northwest Orient Flight 705 one day. A forgotten crash that forever changed the way jet pilots fly their aircraft. Would love to hear a pilot's opinion on this!
I'll see what I can do!
@@MentourPilot That would be great
I've stopped watching Mayday and got addicted to your channel. Sending my thanks here because Patreon doesn't accept UPI
WOW $200 is a lot to give away
@@Music-xp5wg These are indian rupees, not dollars and 200₹ is only about $2.31 at the time I'm writing this.
Wow, unbelievable. Ive been binge watching these videos for a week straight, rewatching older videos simply because there are so many that i forget what happened! And this morning, as im preparing my coffee and pulling up youtube to start my daily Mentour Pilot videos, i see a brand new video!! That made my day!! Thank you !!!
Thank you too!
When I was working in the shipyard, i witnessed a tragic accident with one of my coworker. He somehow managed to open a valve connected to a large bottle with pure oxygen. He burned alive, even though he opened that for a short part of a second. As soon as he opened that valve, oxygen started spreading along his hand, which was covered by an oil. That immidietaly caused a selfignitied fire on his body. And it was evaluating so fast, that nobody could help him. So I can just imagine how was it look like on flying airplane, and how all of that poor people were feeling when that happened...
I’m sorry you had to witness that. Sounds horrific.
Heard this story before....always makes me shake my head when the aviation industry keeps trying it's best of find out the how/why/what behind accidents ( with the intention of trying to keep it from happening again more than for the purpose of placing blame), and then some national authority somewhere decides "Nope that answer makes us or our beliefs or our politics look bad so we're going to do everything in our power to say you're wrong" and thus nothing can really be done and people don't get the closure they really deserve and problems can't be fixed
EDIT: Widespread media speculation definitely doesn't help at all. Facts? What are facts? They've got deadlines to meet and clicks/views to accrue, who has time for facts?!
However, in this case, it doesn't really make sense that the Egyptian authorities were trying to protect their national reputation. The bomb theory at least implies a possible security failure by Egypt Air that allowed the bomb on board, whereas the oxygen fire would suggest a possible design failure by Airbus, clearly something not under control of Egypt.
Someone from Egypt explained this in one of the comments. As per him, the government wanted to paint a picture of Egypt being the target of outside enemies, etc. Thats why they produced that creepy bomb theory. @@alexandermonro6768
My six year old nephew spent 7 hours building his lego airplane, a gift for his graduation from lower grade. One day when he's a little older, he'll camp with aunty on a Mentour marathon. For now, I don't wanna stress him about plane crashes. I've heard him speak of terms that I've heard on this channel when he flies and lands (on his games 🙂), and I'm happy to let him enjoy that. No doubt I'll be his passenger one day. I'm nowhere near being a pilot, this is a good and extremely educational channel.
We watch 3 Minutes of Aviation almost every evening with my 4-year-old son! Nice content without the scary stuff for little aviation enthusiasts.
@@jsleinonen thanks a lot for the plug ☺️. I just browsed the page now. I think my nephew will enjoy it.
Essentially the BEA said the explosives residue is a red herring without significant further investigation. Investigation that the Egyptians didn’t do. Any mining engineers on the flight for example.
My late father needed paperwork from his job to pass through security because he worked for the US DOD on old explosives.
And then there's China Airlines 611 - an in-flight breakup in which investigators found traces of explosives.
Turns out the bodies and fuselage were rescued from the sea, and boarded military boats - which had been used previously to transport explosives.
Later, the in-flight breakup was deemed to metal fatigue on the skin of the aircraft, due to poor maintenance a decade previous to the accident
You don’t need to be a miner to have such traces. Manipulating fireworks or firing a gun can do the same. I doubt they properly tested for TNT
@@GoianoAmazonia That was the incorrect repair on the rear pressure bulkhead of a 747, correct?
Not to mention there have been a lot of wars fought in the Mediterranean, with lots of ordinance still around and leaking.
@@Knirin I'm not sure... I think you may be mixing up with Japan Airlines 123.
This repair was not exactly on the pressure bulkhead, but in the skin of the aircraft, under the tail.
Both repairs were needed due to a tail strike
As an accadent this very much reminds me of Swissair 111.
I was actually always happy that the last moments of 111 where never recorded, because this is the stuff of nightmares.
@mentourpilot any chance you will cover Swissair 111?
@@QWETWolfensteini think he already has?
Husband of my colleague was on board. Made it very personal for our team.
If only they'd gone straight to an airport with no delays 😢
@gryff8400 yes they somehow underestimated the situation. Fire on bord is very dangerous yet somehow pilots underestimate it . I still believe pilots didn't react as they should
@@gryff8400they started dumping fuel which lost them time they didn't have
@@gryff8400basically the pilots didn't react the way they should
Let the PiC know that i'm in seat 3L and i have 105hr of Mentour Pilot videos if he needs me.
Specially if PIC needs help landing the plane
"Surely you can't be serious!"😉
@@Wolfeson28 Stop alling me Shirley! 🤣
calling
I like how you strayed away from your usual accident story telling structure to best describe this specific and rather complicated situation. It certainly made this episode very engaging.
A fire aboard is already one of the worst things that can happen to a plane midflight. This happening in the cockpit, were all the controls are is adding insult to injury.
Yes. The very first item on the (electronic) checklist on an Airbus if a smoke detector goes off is "LAND ASAP!".
I asked for this video six month ago ,and I am very grateful you made it . I am Egyptian,and I can confirm that in every aspect of the government decisions, there is a hidden finger of denial and conspiracy theory that only the motive of them rather than accuracy and transparency. We have had a lot of Aerospace accidents in modern history and the reason is not us "the government" ,Unfortunately the victims are always innocent people ... May they rest in Peace .. Also if you may if the final report for Egypt Air Flight 990 MSR990 accident, consider it in one of the upcoming videos.
Mustve been terrifying for those passengers.. 9 whole minutes of falling down with no idea what happened..
Yes, really terrible
Absolutely 😔
Similar to AF447.
Man I love your channel, even more this series. I prefer this format where you outline all the narrative, THEN proceed to go into the explanation/cause, something about the suspense is AMAZING
Production quality just goes up and up!!!💪🔥
With each Mentour Pilot video, I find it hard to believe they can get much better, and yet they always do. RIP to those aboard Egypt Air 804. Absolutely extraordinary work Petter and team.
My Sunday just got SO much better. Thanks for covering this accident Petter!
Glad you're enjoying it!
How did it get better?
I am Egyptian and I still remember this heinous incident. Thank you for mentioning it.
Really good work by the BEA, especially all the testing they did on the oxygen system.
With the phenomenal improvements over the past several decades it's horrible and heartbreaking that Egypt Air didn't have the integrity to file a true and thorough report that could have possibly saved lives, rather they tried to simply put the blame on a mystery bomber and hid the truth. I hope there will be some repercussions for this, this industry has been the gold standard for investigation and improvement. I work been working in Quality Assurance for a couple decades now and have learned quite a bit about root cause analysis and putting real and serious actions in place for the betterment and safety of the public. Thank you for the hard work!!
Well what would one expect from an agency that has a history of incompetence, as well as dismissing evidence that implicates Egyptair.
That was a dramatic intro!
Its a great day for a new Mentour Pilot video
Hope you enjoyed it!
@MentourPilot certainly did! This was a very interesting episode. I couldn't imagine the feeling of dread after being forced out of the cockpit by an oxygen fire during flight. No way to access any kind of control over the aircraft while thousands of feet over the ocean. It's the stuff of nightmares
Imagine being in the front rows, calmly enjoying your flight then seeing the cockpit door open and seeing smoke, fire and hearing "close it close it!"
It'd be like a fever dream
The way i see it, i trust the BEA conclusion. About the egyptian report i see two possibilities:
1. Media started talking about the pilots were smoking idea, and in that culture they dont really let high prestiged people like a pilot would be to be shown in a negative way, so they made up an other possibility for the fire.
2. They jugded that since as you mentioned in the video, there was a previous case with bombing threat, they believed that bombing is simply a higher risk, then having another extremely rare oxygen fire, and simply made a report to showcase the bomb threat, ignoring the oxygen system, because they geniuanly believed it is a bigger threat to happen again then the actual things.They saw an opportunity with the fire to do it,
Or the mix of the 2, this could also be a reason they published the BEA report unedited as well, they made awarness of the bomb threat, the pilots were not at fault, were not smoking probably, so it was no harm to publish that, but they still kept ther own version, raising awarness of bombthreats partly and partly because i dont think they would just change their report , that would not look good.
But this is just my opinion, about the first officer leaving, i wish to believe he left the cockpit if he left to find an accesable extinguisher.
Great video as always
I’m a nervous flyer and I LOVE your channel❤ when I watch I feel like I’m facing my fear of flying … not sure though if it helps or it just gives me more things to worry about and get scared about when I’m in a flight 🙈 in any case thank you for your super detailed informative videos. Praying for safety for all Pilots, crews and passengers everywhere always 🙏
I was just about to look for something to put on in the background and then I saw this in my notifications. Perfect timing! These are always the best aviation commentary videos!
Another outstanding story. My only complaint is that these videos are so engaging that I have to find a good time to watch when I don’t have another task that I should be doing.
Thank you Petter for making our lives just a little bit better
My heart just goes out to everyone on board. A hopeless situation that dragged on for 9 minutes. Just awful.
Something about this accident reminds me of Apollo 1 back in 1967, it seems we still have a lot to learn.
My first thought as I heard oxygen and fire in the same sentence. I thought the price paid by Grissom, White and Chaffee was enough. Apparently not.
Yes, agreed the similarities are there
Egyptian here, I'd say the answer to this question has two sides.
On one hand, the country is entirely run by the military, and (for rather obvious reasons) they tend to have paranoid delusions that people are out to get them, and outside forces are out to get the whole country at all times. And these delusions are often instigated and/or propagated by the big boss himself. A good historical comparison is Enver Hoxha from Armenia.
On the other hand, pride. Plain and simple. Failure of any kind is simply not something they ever admit, despite it being caused in most cases by some degree of shirking, negligence, cutting corners or some other factor that's entirely preventable.
Clearly the TNT attack narrative neatly fits into these two aspects of the mindset of those in power, so no wonder they stuck with it. The fact the final report included the french findings at all is a rare courtesy.
As usual, great job explaining all aspects and potential versions, keeping in mind that the investigation is still ongoing. Probably the worst thing that could happen on board would be a fire, and in the cockpit at that. It's unimaginable what happened to the passengers on board dealing with all this, condolences to the families. Regards and thanks for the episode.
It's interesting because - if one was a sceptic - you would have expected Egyptian investigators to steer away from an explosive device on their flag carrier airline and French investigators to steer away from technical issue on 'their' French aircraft - and yet he we are with the opposite conclusions from each.
I refuse to fly on Egypt Air to this day. The last time I went to Cairo, I took British Airways from JFK to Heathrow, and then Heathrow to Cairo.
You should review the NTSB report on an oxygen fueled fire onboard a Delta 727 in Salt Lake City on 14 October 1989. The fire destroyed the aircraft very quickly and the location and propagation are close to what is postulated in the view. It should be noted how severe and toxic the smoke generated in the fire quickly became.
Love the video, I would enjoy seeing a video on Egypt air flight 990, in 1999 flying out of New York, which was crashed into the Atlantic ocean quite deliberately by one of the pilots killing everyone. remarkably, it seems almost nobody remembers this one
I agree 100% the relief pilot purposely crashed that plane and his prayers were even picked up on the cockpit voice controller. Religion, politics, countries and families shouldn’t get in the way of the truth.
UA-cam’s filters probably would shadow ban that video, if not deleting it entirely.
@@tiffinyanderson4403 I believe that the prayer was misinterpreted, the first officer said "twakalt ala Allah" which when translated it means " I rely on Allah" but Arabs especially Egyptian say this prayer when confronting a difficult situation, or basically when leaving their homes at the morning as a prayer to start their day. what I am trying to say is that the prayer may have been misinterpreted and shouldn't be used as evidence
@@ibrahimmohammed1057 I understand that but Gamil el-Batouty the relief first Officer who took over oddly soon in the flight was going to demoted from flying the lucrative and good transatlantic flights by Hatem Rushdy, the chief of EgyptAir's Boeing 767 pilot group. He had numerous reports of sexual offenses and conduct against him from flying and even at the lay over hotel. The captain was asking better begging for him to help pull up but the elevators were split and Gamil continue to push the nose down. The cockpit voice recorder also caught the captain asking Gamil why he shut the engines off. The information is out there from all types of sources and to me it’s a sad situation and I feel bad for all.
Petter, I love this channel and the work that you do. The videos are always excellent and the descriptions thorough. I know that you appreciate when viewers suggest corrections for the videos. I happen to notice that at 27:37 when you are describing the frequency of the events, it should say "between 1 in 10 million..." Instead of "between 1 in 100 million..." The chart that you show prior to this time with the definitions and the frequencies says that "extremely remote" is defined as between 10^-7 and 10^-9 per flight hour. 10^-7 indicates one in 10 million, not 100 million. Again, I enjoy all of your videos in this video is no exception. I don't mean to be hyper-critical. I just want to help you out. Thanks again for all you do. 😊
As a statistics person, I can say that improbable is by no means impossible. Even when the odds are hundreds of million to 1, if you roll the dice enough, it will happen. After all, people win the lottery a few times every year.
Yep. There are about 40 million commercial airline flights a year. So something so incredibly rare that it happens only once every hundred million flights can be expected to happen every 2 or 3 years.
Well you weren't kidding, this was definitely terrifying.
There's something about fire that evokes a sense of primal fear in me. I love camppfires and hearths, but seeing a fire where it does not belong is just ... intense. Can't imagine how those pilots must have felt. The sample sound you played was horrifying.
As a volunteer firefighter I can wholeheartedly agree with you. Fire is one of nature's most terrifying powers and we ought to highly respect and fear it.
I take the opportunity to be the first comment to tell thank you deeply for your channel & share with you what I call my “homecoming challenge”
I live in South Korea for my master degree, since 3 years, due to circumstances i grown in me HUGE phobia of plane (even watching movies about it makes me sweat)
I’m on my 4th year and…all I want is to hug my mom once again in my home country(France)..( who’s 14 hours flight far)
Watching your videos teaches me the professionalism of the pilots, how unfortunate events become lessons for better security& learning, + aware of my surrounding etc.
Coming back home is my goal and thanks to your channel, it’s inside my healing therapy!
I will comment the day I’ll be finally back 🏡
Merci Mentour!
I have been in a car fire and it spreads so quickly, way faster than most ppl imagine. The fire went from the car parked next to mine to mine in less time than I could go back in and get my keys. It ended up burning 5 cars and doing millions in damage to our condo complex before the fire fighters got there and extinguished it. Luckily we lived about 200 feet from the fire department. Absolutely horrifying shit on the ground where you could just back away. Fire in the air? Unimaginably terrifying.
Best content on UA-cam by far
You outdid yourself on this one Petter. Stepped it up once again! What a terrifying incident and one that I hope the industry learns from as always. I also wonder what if any consequences there should be for the Egyptian aviation authorities for essentially covering this up.
This was a particularly frightening scenario, even as a long-time watcher of these videos.
Petter, I've been watching your content nearly from the beginning and I must say, you've become a master. Your content easily overshadows some of the biggest big-budget disaster-type programs. I'm happy to see you pursuing your other lifes passion which is spreading the joy and respect of aviation to millions. If you think about it, your videos have probably stopped a number of potential accidents by now.
I know in the States, civilian aviators who distinguish themselves are given recognition like medals etc. If Sweden does such a thing, you'd certainly be a top candidate.
Incredible story. Sometimes I wonder if there shouldn’t be some sort of ‘quiet time’ every idk 15 mins so pilots can hear things out of the ordinary. I drive trucks and I know A LOT of drivers who have ear buds in the entire time. I don’t operate like that. There are changes in sound that can happen just before a tire blows or a mechanical failure that’s happening. You can’t react until it’s too late if you can’t hear it. Using all your senses is so important even if it’s a 1-1 billion chance.
As young cops in the 80's, you were never allowed to patrol in a car, WITHOUT your front door windows down, as you lost one of the most crucial of your senses, your hearing! If you were ever caught, you got and arse kicking from the shift Sgt!
There is that famous NYFD case where a shift commander saves his crew, by unexpectedly screaming evacuate, evacuate, evacuate- seconds before a flash over and the building get engulfed with flames! Put down to the silence of the fire, which he heard and recognised, just before the flash over.
Headphones on at your peril!
What a horrible, unsolvable situation faced by this pilots. Must be so hard trying to explain this accident being a pilot yourself, but thank you for your hard work. So sorry for all souls lost in this accident.
Fire onboard... every pilot's worst 'nightmare.' Add the use of lithium ion battery equipment to this mix and it really seems like a good time for flight deck fire suppression system reviews. Thanks for posting.
Big compliment for the quality of this episode, Petter! This one is particularly scary because as safe as aviation is, it's still something that could sadly happen anytime, with not much of a chance to fight back against the huge force of the fire. Also, what the passengers must have seen in the last few minutes from the front of the Airbus makes my skin crawl.
Thank you for such quality videos, it’s always a good day when you upload!
Glad you like them!
Wow....this episode has just moved this channel into another planet. Congratulations on the excellent work.
Awesome! I’ve been waiting for you to make a video about this flight. I watch all of your videos because I want to become a pilot in the future, you always give such a deep understanding and represent it all really well. Keep up the good work👍
Thank you very much, and go for it!
Very good presentation of the dangers of using 100% pure O2, Petter. Yes, 100% O2 is frighteningly reactive.
I remember an O2 Danger demonstration in training decades ago.
That day, our instructor took us out into the parking lot, where he had an old Hub Cap off of car with about 200ml of old engine oil in the bottom of it.
He cracked the O2 tank and pointed the end of the hose at the used oil from a distance of 10cm. The stream of 100% O2 jetted across the puddle of oil in the hub cap, causing an immediate and vigorous combustion of the old engine oil.
IT was frightening and gave us all a good scare. The instructor pointed out afterwards, never ever "smoke" or go near an open flame until any clothing you are wearing has had a chance to "air out" as your clothing may contain or even be saturated with high levels of O2 if your exposure to a 100% O2 steam or atmosphere is a prolonged one.
Thank you for a most informative video.
This production quality if off the scale!!! This is always an instant watch..
Man, I just watched one of the older accident videos the other day, and I noticed a stark contrast in video quality between that one and this one. Not that the older ones are bad by any means, but holy cow, you guys are doing a great job with these videos. Absolutely do not regret my subscription a couple of years ago.
oh geez the panic must have been awful knowing they could do nothing slowing spiraling down to death.
Many thx Captain, Excellent report.
Such consistent high-effort content. Thank you Petter and team!
Man, did you watch it in quardruble speed? Its 46min long and been out less than 15 min q8
Thank you! And thanks for watching!
@@mikko7296 Patrons often get early access, a perk of paying for the channel content, along with those with other methods to fund Petter's excellent productions.
@@mikko7296 Patreon supporters have had access for over 24 hours. Plenty of time to watch at normal speed 😂