Richard Rohr on Atonement Theology
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- Опубліковано 14 тра 2020
- This is part 1 of a series on Embracing an Alternative Orthodoxy featuring the teaching of Richard Rohr. Process questions can be accessed in the weekly blog in the teaching section at CrossWalkNapa.org. Enoy!
Jesus did not come to change God's mind about humanity. He came to change humanity's mind about God.
Dear Fr. Richard, thank you for putting it so plainly…. That Jesus did not come to change God’s mind about humanity but to change humanity’s mind about God. I wish more people would listen to dear Richard’s teachings on this. To teach us that God is all merciful, all forgiving and all loving. We just have to be open to this truth! Thank you Richard, you changed my life for the better and taught me about God andHis unconventional love for us. And Jesus came to help us to understand the love of God and opening up our hearts and minds.🙏🙏🙏
Richard Rohr is one of my favorite theologians.
Are there more theologians like him
I came across this quote by a theologian one time and I thought it was very compelling - “I used to think that wrath was unworthy of God. Isn’t God love? Shouldn’t divine love be beyond wrath? God is love, and God loves every person and every creature. That’s exactly why God is wrathful against some of them. My last resistance to the idea of God’s wrath was a casualty of the war in the former Yugoslavia, the region from which I come. According to some estimates, 200,000 people were killed and over 3,000,000 were displaced. My villages and cities were destroyed, my people shelled day in and day out, some of them brutalized beyond imagination, and I could not imagine God not being angry. Or think of Rwanda in the last decade of the past century, where 800,000 people were hacked to death in one hundred days! How did God react to the carnage? By doting on the perpetrators in a grandparently fashion? By refusing to condemn the bloodbath but instead affirming the perpetrators’ basic goodness? Wasn’t God fiercely angry with them? Though I used to complain about the indecency of the idea of God’s wrath, I came to think that I would have to rebel against a God who wasn’t wrathful at the sight of the world’s evil. God isn’t wrathful in spite of being love. God is wrathful because God is love.” (Miroslav Volf, “Free of Charge: Giving and Forgiving in a Culture Stripped of Grace”, page 138.)
It seems like the idea of God being nothing but "love" and forgiving everybody of everything no matter how much pain and suffering and death they cause on the earth works really well for people who live in comfort and peace, but what about those who live in extreme poverty, or those who have been kidnapped and sold into sexual slavery, or those who are tortured and killed by their own people or their own government just because they are different in some way? If your very own child were kidnapped by someone and sold into sex slavery, would you just say, "Oh well, God loves everybody and we will all be forgiven." If you witnessed someone standing idly by as someone else was being attacked or raped, would you think that they were compassionate and caring, or would you think that there was something wrong with them emotionally? Believing in a "God" that doesn't get angry or have "wrath" about the evil and brokenness in this world sounds really good to people who live in privilege and don't want to believe that there are consequences for sin on this earth.
God didn't come to the earth in Jesus because he needed to change his mind about us because he knows how sinful we are. And we don't have to change our minds about God because we see his self-sacrificing love on the cross. We have to change our minds about how good we think we are and realize that we are sinners in need of forgiveness and grace which only comes through repentance.
We had to change our minds about God because before Jesus showed us his sacrificial love m, the view of God was very warped. So you can’t say that. But regardless, God’s wrath (being a show of love) doesnt compare with humanity’s understanding or expression of wrath because much of it is wrapped in the ego and seeing the other person as the enemy. Instead of seeing them for who the *really* are and being wrathful against the part that does not see the truth. So I think Gods wrath against sin is love, simple. It includes being angry at our wrongs and correcting us as his children, not condemning us to eternity in hell. That’s the difference.
I have viewed this once!
100%, we Protestants did the same thing back to Catholics. "We're saved, they aren't." It's a never ending cycle. It's so freeing to step outside of that perspective and realize you don't have to fight everyone.
I’m so very glad and grateful that these older white people, in their humble khakis, were hungry enough and young enough as children of God, to come and learn something they could take with them and share. Share with their grandchildren and others to make a way of hope in a loving God who IS the door out of a sad world and a sadder American evangelical theology. It’s the kind of hope I want to offer to my own grandchildren, though I come to it late in life.
I have a question. Is what Fr. Rohr speaks to here have anything to do with the fact that we are not saved by works, we are saved by grace, the fact that Jesus died for our sins, paid the price as Christians say? What I'm understanding is that Jesus didn't have to pay a price (who would he be paying it to) that the Cross is showing us that we have to die to the false self to be resurrected to the True self which is who we are in God. I am a bit confused.
Why the comment regarding “older white people” by the presenter ? Seems judgmental.
Just a fact.
Bizarre introduction- “white people”??
What can you do to get diversity?
Be careful. This may sound good but the further you look into RR’s teachings the more it becomes clear he is a new age guru. I came to faith from the new age and I recognise it.
L
Why make the introduction about race right away? I don't care what color the preacher or followers are as long as what they are preaching and following in the truth of the gospel and are in line with church teachings. That invalidates this video for me from the start because now I'm expecting a woke point of view. Don't do that. Don't fall into the fallacies of the left. This country isn't racist and don't make preaching into something having to do with race. The gospel is consistent whether the followers and preachers are all of one race or of mixed races.
That is so weird and racist to be so obsessed with skin color. Anyways, I love Rohr, thanks for the video.
There is no alternative orthodoxy!
Surrender your wokeness to God.
the Franciscans had always adhered to the vicarious satisfaction theory of atonement - st. Francis, st. Bonaventura, Duns Scott, etc - what this man is saying is not true at all
you're just going to assert that without a scrap of supporting evidence? not very convincing
Richard Rogers is not a Christian. By that I mean he is not a born again child of God. He has not accepted Jesus’ perfect sacrifice as payment for forgiveness of his sins and thus is still enslaved in them. He poo poos the justice and righteous anger and wrath God has against sin and unrepentant sinners and in so doing perverts his understanding of God’s love.
Love holds no record of wrongs. Love cannot be wrathful. Kill your false god
This is the deification of man! Jesus only is Lord and savior. He is God! Jesus Christ! There is no “cosmic Christ” that’s new age cultic stuff! Really platonic and eastern religious orientation not biblical at all. ISAIAH 53
How do you reconcile John 1:1 to your no "cosmic Christ" ideology?
Lol. How do you know??? You don't keep the books. God does.
@@georgevalco215 Christianity is eastern mysticism. Lol.
the historical errors and inventions crall everywhere in this man's speech - totally unworthy of attention
full of propagandistic memes...