I'll be honest with you guys. I am an absolute beginner with this machine, and I am hoping with this video to get some feedback and tips from you, the watchers. Also, anyone know where I can get a decent 49mm bottomless PF in Europe, ideally with a wooden handle?
@@coffeesensor6612 Sounds good to me! I checked out your website, and you've got some great information there. I will keep it indexed for the future. 👍
My tip is to stand up when you're pulling a shot from that machine. When I watched that video, I kept wondering if you had forgotten to put on some pants.
My wife and I purchased one of these in La Pavoni professional coffee machines in Rome on our honeymoon in 1994. We used it every day for 15 years and were very happy until with failing health. I retired it to use a Bezzera Gia as I wasn’t strong enough to pull shots anymore on the La Pavoni. We have kept the La Pavooni as an object of beauty/art. I am about to service it and pass it on to our son and daughter-in-law so it can be enjoyed by the next generation for its intended purpose of make tasty expresso coffee.
if the boiler is hot and you need to add more water to it, you just need to heat the next batch of water with the steam wand (with the machine off) this will release the pressure and pre heat the water you want to add. When no more steam is coming out then you can safely unscrew the to and add the now heated water. You save time and energy this way.
This is actually one of the most appreciated machines in the La Pavoni community. It's a very nice 90s machine and with the big 1.6L capacity (professional). The standard machine is pretty nervous and gets really hot, and that's the reason why we decided to create so many upgrades for it. Keep up the good work !
Thanks very much for your evaluation! I am pretty new to LP, so I am happy to learn. I see you've got some great looking aftermarket mods and products on your Etsy and website. I am looking forward to trying a couple of those out!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner I've been using a pre mill professional daily since I moved out to college (for like 3 years now) and I 100% recommend the temperature stickers. They help so much in getting different roasts dialed in because some prefer slightly higher temperatures and some do better with the group at 70° C. Also great to avoid the "sneeze" when you see the group above 95° you'll know not to remove the portafilter or the left over water will instantly vaporize and explode hot wet coffee grounds all over your machine and kitchen. Right now I don't really have the funds to get the piston pressure profiler but I calculated that you need to press the end of the lever with around 15 kg to get around 9 bar so standing on a scale you can get an estimate of how different pressures feel if you just press the lever and look at your weight difference.
@Francisco Parra the machine does overheat pretty fast, especially the pre mil models. They are not La Pavoni, coffee sensor sells all the la Pavoni replacement parts though and they do have very nice upgrades as well, like temperature sensors for the group that make the machine much more consistent. I don't get why you are hating.
Well done, Tom: using that chunk of gym equipment while sitting down is quite a feat. My favourite stance was in front and slightly to the right, leaning on the lever with my left hand while keeping weight on the stopper with the right. On one of my early efforts I neglected to lean on the stopper and the whole shebang took off backwards across the counter, wham. Then there's the famous La Pavoni Sneeze to watch out for, when you unlock the PF too soon after the shot and residual pressure blasts the filter contents all over your shirt, and everything else in the neighbourhood. Very entertaining for bystanders, unless they're watching too closely. These days my machine lives on as decoration in the billiard room and my daily coffee comes out of a Barista Express, or a Delonghi Magnifica if I'm feeling lazy. Re the steam wand tip, get yourself a 6 mm dome nut and bore a 1 mm hole in it. Works a treat. BTW, if you've got an IR thermometer, try taking a reading off the boiler when it's up to pressure. It'll say something around 38°C/100°F - high body temperature - but for Pete's sake don't touch it: that chrome fools the thermometer very nicely, as I found out with stinging fingers.
Hey John, thanks so much for sharing! Yes, I know (learned the hard way) to watch out for PF sneeze, because of using the Delonghis, but your story is very funny. 😅 You know, I have tried drilling through a stainless dome nut before, for an EC155, but I just couldn't get a hole started. That stainless is apparently too hard for my little drill bits. Maybe I will give it another go. I do have an IR thermometer, but I find that it is inaccurate on metal surfaces...or at least it seems to vary a lot. I'll try again. Thanks, for your tips, and for watching! Tom
Hi Tom, nice to see you with this beautiful m/c. I am also shifted from DeLonghi to LP. I can say, LP is the absolute beauty for Espresso lover! For one thing, you don't really need to press the lever so hard, even with the super fine grinding. After prefusion, just gently push the lever down and wait a bit longer, the coffee will slowly, and beautifully flow down. When you start with a very strong pulling, it tend to compress the already hard pressed puck to be too tight. One more tooling is essential is the distributor (or just a fine pin) to loosen the coffee powder before temping. Just my humble opinion. I am sure there are a lot of other methods to make a great coffee from this classic m/c. Cheer!😁😁😁😁😁
Thank you for those insights! I have recently received a Bottomless portafilter, so with that optical feedback, I can try to be more nuanced with the pull. I will try those tips. Cheers! Tom
From Jiri: "a) we have an almost identical pre-millenium Pro we bought in Rome (110v) in 1994 that's in our main home - been a workhorse all these years b) we have a europiccola (post-M) in a home in Italy & another in NYC c) macchina del caffe in Bari sells lots of Pavoni (and other machine) parts/accessories - well priced d) you'd asked for some suggestions and one was to replace the nozzle with a one hole one (avoid the nut, get the more streamlined one) e) get a good bean & a good grinder As you know, it's a great machine - takes some learning to pull great shots but when you know it you can make some wonderful coffee. "
I have an 'esperto abile' like the professional, also has a very useful pressure guage on the group head. I love it! Boiler pressure is set too high, so when it gets to 1 bar I turn it off, pull up the lever and push down to rinse / preheat the group head. Then i put the loaded portafilter in and pull a shot, and froth the soymilk with a little sugar in it after. Sugar seems to make the soymilk froth better. I let it preinfuse, and aim for less than 9 bar when pulling the shot Also, i turn the power back on while frothing. Good drinks. Puck always a nice dry cake after. Esperto also came with one hole steam tip.
Thanks for sharing! The Esperto does look super cool. I have gotten some decent shots with the 1990s Professional that I have, but in general they were too hot. I did a Bong Isolator mod, which helped. I still couldn't steam milk properly though. I wonder if the newer machines are better for this? Cheers!
@@theunheardprophet4315 James Hoffman is the undisputed coffee king. His videos are always creative, and he engages the viewer through story telling with each video.
Hi Tom, thanks for the vid! You put me over the fence to get a kingrinder k4 from your review of it, and im loving it! Thank you! I've paired it with the Picopresso... And though im impressed with it, ive been eyeing the cafelat robot or a flair... Or this one?.... What do you think? (I lean to robot for the simplicity and apparently it pulls a magnificent shot) ... Your take is appreciated!
Well, I have not tried a Robot, but the Flair is a nice piece of kit. The problem with those passive lever machines is though, that you have to really preheat everything to get a decent shot. That's much too much work for me, honestly. The LP on the other hand heats on its own which is nice, but it can also overheat. Maybe start with a cheaper Flair, and if you can find a deal on a used LP in good shape, give that a whirl. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thanks Tom! Actually, from the videos I've seen, Hoffman and others reviewing the robot, for dark roasts and medium you don't need to preheat the robot but for light roasts yes... Designed in such a way where apparently you wont need to preheat... another selling point.... But just sounds like I'm trying to sell myself more and more...
You can actually add more water to a running machine by letting ALL and i mean ALL the pressure out via the steam wand and then (very carefully!) opening up the tank. I do it all the time since i have a smaller water tank on my 1979 version.
Thanks for that, but I would still err on the side of caution, and wait till it's cooled down before opening. But I only use it for a couple shots at a time, anyway. Cheers!
I bought mine in 1994. It leaks a little on the heat up now. I’ve never serviced it. Just use distilled water. Anyways, with a bit of practice I can get good shots with it. Not amazing shots. I have a KafeTek Max grinder and 30 years of practice😅. So yes it’s possible to make good not amazing espresso with it. My Sanremo Opera2 machine makes amazing shots(I upgraded a few years ago) However the LaP is a fun machine and I’ll always use it. ❤
I have the same machine for many years now and really like it. But to be honest, I really struggle to get out a good tasting shot of espresso. I have a good grinder, tried many beans but getting a good espresso is really challenging
Haha, well I was using it backwards, and trying to use it while sitting for the review. As long as you are standing with this lever machine below you, you should be able to exert the force necessary on the lever. Cheers!
What did you find as an average warm up time before pulling a well rounded shot? I’ve read anywhere between 15 to 30 mins warm up before pulling a shot. Thank you.
Oh I don't know. It starts overheating after 15 minutes I'd say, since it's steam controlled. You really need to install a Bong Isolator on these older versions in my opinion.
was it just the 2 clicks adjustament on the k4 that made the effort you needed to push the second shot so much greater? or maybe you were at an uncomfortable position that time?
I find that if you’re close to the right grind size, 2 clicks makes a noticeable difference. But also, it’s hard to press down on the lever on that weird angle, when operating from the back.
Great and helpful video Tom, I just bought mine a couple of days ago and found your thoughts quite interesting … what do you think about the pressure profile, i found that most people end up just sticking with muscular momory
Hey Dante! Thanks for your comment. I think I need a bottomless first, to better evaluate my shots before speaking much on profiling. I am still trying to find just the right grind and dose to get the proper pressure. It's a little finicky. But I will add info as I learn more about it. Cheers!
Hey Tom, Not related to the La Pavoni. I have a bottomless Portafilter for Delonghi Arte, Do you think IMS Basket will make a noticeable difference? it costs 55 AUD in Australia (38 USD) Not sure if it's worth it, compared to a generic double shot one I have, can't find any other's. From what I can see the Neouza one is also just from Ali express but stamped with their logo.
Hi there! If you are using the integrated grinder in the arte, then I would stick with the original baskets. The IMS basket has less resistance, requirering a finer grind.
Tom, do you know what the max shot yield is for the Europiccola and Professional? I usually like to pull 40 or 45g shots with my Breville or Flair. Wondering if I’d be able to do that with a La Pavoni. Thanks in advance!
I'd say between 25-35 grams. It seems to vary for me a bit so far. There is an Airbuster I have heard about that allows a larger amount. I will be looking into that soon.
I have the IMS 49mm basket that's labeled for 18g and if I let the puck saturate I get over 40g out, I never really dose over 16g though but the deeper basket can give you longer shots without lifting the lever back up. But it only works in a bottomless portafilter.
we put in about 14-15 grams and get about 35 out. If you micro-pump the handle at the beginning (pre-infusion - what's referred to as a Fellini) you get up to 40 out (a long).
I'm looking to upgrade to a machine that can steam milk (I'm currently rocking a Flair 58), but I don't think this is going to be the one for me. The lack of temperature control is a pretty big deal breaker. Currently looking at maybe getting an Ascaso DUO
The Duo is a pretty nice machine. The Steel Duo PID can steam and extract at the same time, so that's nice. I will be frank: steaming on the LP sucks. Cheers! Tom
Purely anecdotal, but my Europiccola (mid 90s) came with a single hole steam tip and while getting microfoam can be a bit of a challenge, and frankly with the wand and pitcher at a proper angle there isn't much space to work with, it makes a wonderfully tasty cappuccino. It's a demanding machine that allows you very little room for error, both in pulling espresso and steaming milk, but once you put the effort in to learn how it works with your routine, I'd have to say the results are unique. Obviously better or worse is completely subjective, but there's nothing quite like what a La Pavoni puts out.
Hey Tom, I see u're using kingrinder K4, and you did recommend it. What would u recommend between K4 and K6 for espresso use? I saw a review on the internet that said they like K4 more than K6 for espresso, whereas K6 has much more potential at pour over (?). I thought the 'bigger' the number is always better 😂
Anyone know what I am doing wrong, I have fresh whole coffee and I use almond milk and the problem I have is the cofee gets oily and milk curdled. I heat only to 145 degrees. Seems to be I thought being too hot?
Alternative milks are notoriously more difficult to steam. They do make some 'barista' blends of alternatives though, that are supposed to work a little better. Might wanna try one of those.
Haha, well these are two such absolutely different machines...the LP costs 6x the Dedica, and doesn't have a pump. It requires a lot of practice, but it looks cool, and can get some good results with patience. The Dedica is much easier to use. Both Italian design though. They are both fun to play with. Cheers!
My first thought is that the machine is overpriced for what it is. While it’s a beautiful machine, the same functionality can be achieved as a much lower price point. From the point of safety, the lever should be longer and there should be an extended base under the lever so there’s no chance of tipping the machine over. You’ve already pointed out the burn hazards. They could also add a manometer and thermometer to the piston in the brew head so you can monitor the brewing pressure and temperature.
I use a bottomless filter on mine and you can see when the puck is ready and it's ready to pull and it has taken me three months to get my milk steaming right hahahaha
I assume the lever is easier to manage from a standing position, but this video makes me wonder if a 5'2" woman (or any woman of average female upper-body strength) would be able to, well, handle the handle(?) Also being able to hold the machine down so I don't flip it (and the hot boiler) on top of myself is a concern.
Haha, I should redo the video, from a standing position. Levers are funny things - they give us a lot more power, but only when we are on the correct side of them. The lever isn't that hard to press down if you are in front of, and above the machine. Especially if your grind is not fine enough, it will be in fact too easy to press down. If you hold the machine down from the fill cap with your left hand, and push the lever with your right hand, you should be fine. Best of luck to you, whichever direction you go. Tom
La Pavoni has major leaking issue even with soft water. It's expensive to repair. It looks ok. People have tendency to exaggerate esthetics of lever machines. But practically these machines are temperamental.
#1 mistake that holds most people back: Not reading the manual! LaPavoni has an instructional video which shows tips like lifting the lever to just before infusion before clipping in the portafilter. Most inexperienced users don't listen, clip in the filter, and yank the lever, destroying the puck. How to do that without lifting the machine? It's in the manual and video! Basically just use your filter hand to hold the tank cap down. "Grind finer for less pressure" wrong! You saw it yourself. Finer = more more pressure. Think of a coarse french press. No pressure at all. You probably overextacted the first shot, corrected the exact wrong way, jerked the lever up... Watch some James Hoffman my guy. Your technique is quite bad.
Hi there! My LP is used from 1997, and didn't come with a manual anymore. But you're right, I should see if I can find one online. By the way, I said "I think I need a little more pressure, maybe grinding slightly finer." Cheers!
I honestly can’t understand WHY they call it “professional “. It’s definitely not a machine that you would ever use in a small business. And for the price, it’s laughable!
Well, somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m thinking these were invented before the small piston pumps like the Ulka became popular. It’s certainly not as comfortable to use as a pump machine, but it’s interesting nonetheless.
I'll be honest with you guys. I am an absolute beginner with this machine, and I am hoping with this video to get some feedback and tips from you, the watchers.
Also, anyone know where I can get a decent 49mm bottomless PF in Europe, ideally with a wooden handle?
I'll help you out!
@@coffeesensor6612 Sounds good to me! I checked out your website, and you've got some great information there. I will keep it indexed for the future. 👍
My tip is to stand up when you're pulling a shot from that machine.
When I watched that video, I kept wondering if you had forgotten to put on some pants.
Love the video but you super need to read more. Says "finer = less pressure". Next pull is like twice as difficult. That's called learning.
@@KevinJDildonik Maybe I didn't speak clearly, but I said "I think I need a little more pressure, maybe grinding slightly finer."
La Pavoni, the espresso machine we don't need but we all want.
Haha, well said. :) It's a fun machine to play with though, and I think with experience can provide some nice shots.
My wife and I purchased one of these in La Pavoni professional coffee machines in Rome on our honeymoon in 1994. We used it every day for 15 years and were very happy until with failing health. I retired it to use a Bezzera Gia as I wasn’t strong enough to pull shots anymore on the La Pavoni. We have kept the La Pavooni as an object of beauty/art. I am about to service it and pass it on to our son and daughter-in-law so it can be enjoyed by the next generation for its intended purpose of make tasty expresso coffee.
Thanks for sharing your story! 15 years is quite some longevity. Cheers!
if the boiler is hot and you need to add more water to it, you just need to heat the next batch of water with the steam wand (with the machine off) this will release the pressure and pre heat the water you want to add. When no more steam is coming out then you can safely unscrew the to and add the now heated water. You save time and energy this way.
Thanks for the tip! Maybe I will come back to this machine for more experimentation soon. Cheers!
This is actually one of the most appreciated machines in the La Pavoni community. It's a very nice 90s machine and with the big 1.6L capacity (professional). The standard machine is pretty nervous and gets really hot, and that's the reason why we decided to create so many upgrades for it. Keep up the good work !
Thanks very much for your evaluation! I am pretty new to LP, so I am happy to learn.
I see you've got some great looking aftermarket mods and products on your Etsy and website. I am looking forward to trying a couple of those out!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner I've been using a pre mill professional daily since I moved out to college (for like 3 years now) and I 100% recommend the temperature stickers. They help so much in getting different roasts dialed in because some prefer slightly higher temperatures and some do better with the group at 70° C. Also great to avoid the "sneeze" when you see the group above 95° you'll know not to remove the portafilter or the left over water will instantly vaporize and explode hot wet coffee grounds all over your machine and kitchen. Right now I don't really have the funds to get the piston pressure profiler but I calculated that you need to press the end of the lever with around 15 kg to get around 9 bar so standing on a scale you can get an estimate of how different pressures feel if you just press the lever and look at your weight difference.
@Francisco Parra the machine does overheat pretty fast, especially the pre mil models. They are not La Pavoni, coffee sensor sells all the la Pavoni replacement parts though and they do have very nice upgrades as well, like temperature sensors for the group that make the machine much more consistent. I don't get why you are hating.
@Francisco Parra who's Mr Pavoni? I'm Tudor. If you need help, just let me know . And I'll try do my best and help out.
Well done, Tom: using that chunk of gym equipment while sitting down is quite a feat. My favourite stance was in front and slightly to the right, leaning on the lever with my left hand while keeping weight on the stopper with the right. On one of my early efforts I neglected to lean on the stopper and the whole shebang took off backwards across the counter, wham. Then there's the famous La Pavoni Sneeze to watch out for, when you unlock the PF too soon after the shot and residual pressure blasts the filter contents all over your shirt, and everything else in the neighbourhood. Very entertaining for bystanders, unless they're watching too closely. These days my machine lives on as decoration in the billiard room and my daily coffee comes out of a Barista Express, or a Delonghi Magnifica if I'm feeling lazy.
Re the steam wand tip, get yourself a 6 mm dome nut and bore a 1 mm hole in it. Works a treat.
BTW, if you've got an IR thermometer, try taking a reading off the boiler when it's up to pressure. It'll say something around 38°C/100°F - high body temperature - but for Pete's sake don't touch it: that chrome fools the thermometer very nicely, as I found out with stinging fingers.
Hey John, thanks so much for sharing! Yes, I know (learned the hard way) to watch out for PF sneeze, because of using the Delonghis, but your story is very funny. 😅
You know, I have tried drilling through a stainless dome nut before, for an EC155, but I just couldn't get a hole started. That stainless is apparently too hard for my little drill bits. Maybe I will give it another go.
I do have an IR thermometer, but I find that it is inaccurate on metal surfaces...or at least it seems to vary a lot. I'll try again.
Thanks, for your tips, and for watching! Tom
Hi Tom, nice to see you with this beautiful m/c. I am also shifted from DeLonghi to LP.
I can say, LP is the absolute beauty for Espresso lover!
For one thing, you don't really need to press the lever so hard, even with the super fine grinding.
After prefusion, just gently push the lever down and wait a bit longer, the coffee will slowly, and beautifully flow down.
When you start with a very strong pulling, it tend to compress the already hard pressed puck to be too tight.
One more tooling is essential is the distributor (or just a fine pin) to loosen the coffee powder before temping.
Just my humble opinion. I am sure there are a lot of other methods to make a great coffee from this classic m/c.
Cheer!😁😁😁😁😁
Thank you for those insights! I have recently received a Bottomless portafilter, so with that optical feedback, I can try to be more nuanced with the pull. I will try those tips. Cheers! Tom
From Jiri:
"a) we have an almost identical pre-millenium Pro we bought in Rome (110v) in 1994 that's in our main home - been a workhorse all these years
b) we have a europiccola (post-M) in a home in Italy & another in NYC
c) macchina del caffe in Bari sells lots of Pavoni (and other machine) parts/accessories - well priced
d) you'd asked for some suggestions and one was to replace the nozzle with a one hole one (avoid the nut, get the more streamlined one)
e) get a good bean & a good grinder
As you know, it's a great machine - takes some learning to pull great shots but when you know it you can make some wonderful coffee.
"
Thanks for sharing! I would have bought it but no good how the machine lifts up when lever lifted. You saved me!!!
I have an 'esperto abile' like the professional, also has a very useful pressure guage on the group head. I love
it! Boiler pressure is set too high, so when it gets to 1 bar I turn it off, pull up the lever and push down to rinse / preheat the group head. Then i put the loaded portafilter in and pull a shot, and froth the soymilk with a little sugar in it after. Sugar seems to make the soymilk froth better. I let it preinfuse, and aim for less than 9 bar when pulling the shot
Also, i turn the power back on while frothing. Good drinks. Puck always a nice dry cake after. Esperto also came with one hole steam tip.
Thanks for sharing! The Esperto does look super cool. I have gotten some decent shots with the 1990s Professional that I have, but in general they were too hot. I did a Bong Isolator mod, which helped. I still couldn't steam milk properly though. I wonder if the newer machines are better for this? Cheers!
I really like the vid! Sound lighting color and the simple right to the point explanation ❤
Thanks for your kind comment!
You should also discuss other forms of coffee brewing. You have such a more approachable, humble delivery than Hoffman and others in this space
I might be biased but I think that Hoffman has an equally humble delivery as him.
Thank you for your kind viewpoint, Kelly. I'll keep that in mind for the future.
@@theunheardprophet4315 James Hoffman is the undisputed coffee king. His videos are always creative, and he engages the viewer through story telling with each video.
@theunheardprophet4315 let me rephrase, more approachable to those new to the hobby? Doesn't grimace at coffee not ground with a $3,000 grinder?
@@kellydavis3108 Ah, yes, I totally agree. While Hoffman also presents budget alternatives, he for sure delves into the more expensive parts as well.
Hi Tom, thanks for the vid! You put me over the fence to get a kingrinder k4 from your review of it, and im loving it! Thank you! I've paired it with the Picopresso... And though im impressed with it, ive been eyeing the cafelat robot or a flair... Or this one?.... What do you think? (I lean to robot for the simplicity and apparently it pulls a magnificent shot) ... Your take is appreciated!
Well, I have not tried a Robot, but the Flair is a nice piece of kit. The problem with those passive lever machines is though, that you have to really preheat everything to get a decent shot. That's much too much work for me, honestly. The LP on the other hand heats on its own which is nice, but it can also overheat. Maybe start with a cheaper Flair, and if you can find a deal on a used LP in good shape, give that a whirl. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thanks Tom! Actually, from the videos I've seen, Hoffman and others reviewing the robot, for dark roasts and medium you don't need to preheat the robot but for light roasts yes... Designed in such a way where apparently you wont need to preheat... another selling point.... But just sounds like I'm trying to sell myself more and more...
You can actually add more water to a running machine by letting ALL and i mean ALL the pressure out via the steam wand and then (very carefully!) opening up the tank. I do it all the time since i have a smaller water tank on my 1979 version.
Thanks for that, but I would still err on the side of caution, and wait till it's cooled down before opening. But I only use it for a couple shots at a time, anyway. Cheers!
excellent and a LOT of information.. what is the name of the music? thank you
What's that watch you're wearing?
I bought mine in 1994. It leaks a little on the heat up now. I’ve never serviced it. Just use distilled water.
Anyways, with a bit of practice I can get good shots with it. Not amazing shots. I have a KafeTek Max grinder and 30 years of practice😅. So yes it’s possible to make good not amazing espresso with it.
My Sanremo Opera2 machine makes amazing shots(I upgraded a few years ago)
However the LaP is a fun machine and I’ll always use it. ❤
Thanks for sharing your experience! 👍🏻
Looks interesting, but since I don't usually go to the gym, I'd rather look around for another machine :)
I have the same machine for many years now and really like it. But to be honest, I really struggle to get out a good tasting shot of espresso. I have a good grinder, tried many beans but getting a good espresso is really challenging
I can agree with that. It's not easy, but fun to use. Do you have a bong isolator installed?
How many clicks you've used on Kinggrinder ?
I'm right around 55 or so for the La Pavoni
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thank you!
Hi Tom. I would love to buy this machine but I’m 5’ and 97 lbs. Having watched you struggle, I don’t think someone my size could handle it.
Haha, well I was using it backwards, and trying to use it while sitting for the review. As long as you are standing with this lever machine below you, you should be able to exert the force necessary on the lever. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thanks for giving me hope!
What did you find as an average warm up time before pulling a well rounded shot? I’ve read anywhere between 15 to 30 mins warm up before pulling a shot. Thank you.
Oh I don't know. It starts overheating after 15 minutes I'd say, since it's steam controlled. You really need to install a Bong Isolator on these older versions in my opinion.
@@TomsCoffeeCornerThank you.
Pavoni or flair 58 ?
Hi, during pre infusion process, water (coffee) is spilling inside cup (before i start with fellini), where i am wrong?
Probably your grind is too corse
was it just the 2 clicks adjustament on the k4 that made the effort you needed to push the second shot so much greater? or maybe you were at an uncomfortable position that time?
I find that if you’re close to the right grind size, 2 clicks makes a noticeable difference. But also, it’s hard to press down on the lever on that weird angle, when operating from the back.
You need to review an Olympia Cremina
Can you send me one? ;) No doubt it would be fun to try.
Great and helpful video Tom, I just bought mine a couple of days ago and found your thoughts quite interesting … what do you think about the pressure profile, i found that most people end up just sticking with muscular momory
Hey Dante! Thanks for your comment. I think I need a bottomless first, to better evaluate my shots before speaking much on profiling. I am still trying to find just the right grind and dose to get the proper pressure. It's a little finicky. But I will add info as I learn more about it. Cheers!
Hey Tom,
Not related to the La Pavoni. I have a bottomless Portafilter for Delonghi Arte, Do you think IMS Basket will make a noticeable difference? it costs 55 AUD in Australia (38 USD)
Not sure if it's worth it, compared to a generic double shot one I have, can't find any other's. From what I can see the Neouza one is also just from Ali express but stamped with their logo.
Hi there! If you are using the integrated grinder in the arte, then I would stick with the original baskets. The IMS basket has less resistance, requirering a finer grind.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Hmm, i can't use the original as it won't go into the bottomless portafilter using a cheap Aliexpress one. Thanks.
@@KebabEater Ok, well then try the IMS, but you will need to grind finer. Make sure to use fresh beans.
Tom, do you know what the max shot yield is for the Europiccola and Professional? I usually like to pull 40 or 45g shots with my Breville or Flair. Wondering if I’d be able to do that with a La Pavoni. Thanks in advance!
I'd say between 25-35 grams. It seems to vary for me a bit so far. There is an Airbuster I have heard about that allows a larger amount. I will be looking into that soon.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner Thanks, Tom!
I have the IMS 49mm basket that's labeled for 18g and if I let the puck saturate I get over 40g out, I never really dose over 16g though but the deeper basket can give you longer shots without lifting the lever back up. But it only works in a bottomless portafilter.
@@TheHabadababa Thanks! That’s good to know.
we put in about 14-15 grams and get about 35 out. If you micro-pump the handle at the beginning (pre-infusion - what's referred to as a Fellini) you get up to 40 out (a long).
I'm looking to upgrade to a machine that can steam milk (I'm currently rocking a Flair 58), but I don't think this is going to be the one for me. The lack of temperature control is a pretty big deal breaker. Currently looking at maybe getting an Ascaso DUO
The Duo is a pretty nice machine. The Steel Duo PID can steam and extract at the same time, so that's nice. I will be frank: steaming on the LP sucks. Cheers! Tom
Purely anecdotal, but my Europiccola (mid 90s) came with a single hole steam tip and while getting microfoam can be a bit of a challenge, and frankly with the wand and pitcher at a proper angle there isn't much space to work with, it makes a wonderfully tasty cappuccino. It's a demanding machine that allows you very little room for error, both in pulling espresso and steaming milk, but once you put the effort in to learn how it works with your routine, I'd have to say the results are unique. Obviously better or worse is completely subjective, but there's nothing quite like what a La Pavoni puts out.
nice video and thanks for convicing me to stay away from these 😅
Haha, glad I could help. These do have quite the following, though.
Hey Tom, I see u're using kingrinder K4, and you did recommend it. What would u recommend between K4 and K6 for espresso use? I saw a review on the internet that said they like K4 more than K6 for espresso, whereas K6 has much more potential at pour over (?). I thought the 'bigger' the number is always better 😂
I have not tried the K6, but what you say seems to be the status quo. Check Coffee Nerd Aaron's review of the K6. It's a great video. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner okaay i will check it, thanks !
Its a beautiful machine, I love its aesthetic, i ended up with a flare pro, its not as quirky.
Me too. I also added a (rather expensive) SEP bluetooth manometer and scale, which logs the extraction and makes learning a bit faster.
@@TomJones-tx7pb that sounds really useful.
I’ll look into it.
Didn’t know about the monometer and scale.
Also the Flair Pro gauge shows bar pressure. LP are so beautiful though ❤
Anyone know what I am doing wrong, I have fresh whole coffee and I use almond milk and the problem I have is the cofee gets oily and milk curdled. I heat only to 145 degrees. Seems to be I thought being too hot?
Alternative milks are notoriously more difficult to steam. They do make some 'barista' blends of alternatives though, that are supposed to work a little better. Might wanna try one of those.
+10 points for operating it from a chair while sitting behind the machine lol
Haha, thanks Justin. Saved myself a gym day.
Pavoni o delongi dedica?😊
Haha, well these are two such absolutely different machines...the LP costs 6x the Dedica, and doesn't have a pump. It requires a lot of practice, but it looks cool, and can get some good results with patience. The Dedica is much easier to use. Both Italian design though. They are both fun to play with. Cheers!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner I prefer delonghi dedica 🙈🙈🙈🙈🙈
How much this machine costs in Europe?
Well, you can find these used starting around €250. I think they start at €650 new.
I'm surprised that there's no pressure gauge showing lever arm pressure during the pull. Maybe a dealbreaker 🤷
I’ve had the europiccola for about 20 years. I still can’t make a decent espresso with it.
My first thought is that the machine is overpriced for what it is. While it’s a beautiful machine, the same functionality can be achieved as a much lower price point.
From the point of safety, the lever should be longer and there should be an extended base under the lever so there’s no chance of tipping the machine over. You’ve already pointed out the burn hazards.
They could also add a manometer and thermometer to the piston in the brew head so you can monitor the brewing pressure and temperature.
You can find them in garage sales for 50 bucks or 150 in Italy. If you want, you will find a cheap one 100%.
A friend of mine found one at a flea market in Italy for that range. It’s one with a brown base, he thinks a 1980 model. 👍🏻
That pull sounded like you got some crema in your pants brother 8:02
Hey, get your mind out of the gutter, lol.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner sounded like a fart 😂
I use a bottomless filter on mine and you can see when the puck is ready and it's ready to pull and it has taken me three months to get my milk steaming right hahahaha
Thanks for that Gavin. Do you start pulling the shot when you see the droplets coming out of the basket? Also, do you have an aftermarket steam tip?
I assume the lever is easier to manage from a standing position, but this video makes me wonder if a 5'2" woman (or any woman of average female upper-body strength) would be able to, well, handle the handle(?) Also being able to hold the machine down so I don't flip it (and the hot boiler) on top of myself is a concern.
Haha, I should redo the video, from a standing position. Levers are funny things - they give us a lot more power, but only when we are on the correct side of them. The lever isn't that hard to press down if you are in front of, and above the machine. Especially if your grind is not fine enough, it will be in fact too easy to press down. If you hold the machine down from the fill cap with your left hand, and push the lever with your right hand, you should be fine. Best of luck to you, whichever direction you go. Tom
toys and show-offs :)
This machine is very hard to find here 😅
Where is here?
guessing USA. was looking and quite difficult
@@TomsCoffeeCorner right, Indonesia . forgot my coffee 🤣
Tom try the robot!!!
Have you ever tried making coffee with the Little Guy?
Do you mean the Europiccola? Not yet I haven't...
Shot looks good, but I hope it’s not expensive, because you’ll need to save some money for all the physio for your bad shoulder it gave you😆
Haha, thanks. But one is not supposed to operate the machine from behind. It's not bad from the front, and standing up.
A lot of pressure there 😂
La Pavoni has major leaking issue even with soft water. It's expensive to repair. It looks ok. People have tendency to exaggerate esthetics of lever machines. But practically these machines are temperamental.
I don't know. Mine is from the 1990's, and mine isn't leaking. But I don't use it all the time. Cheers!
💪😀
When 2x speed isn’t enough
I did a second video about the LP. That one should be better pacing.
In real life, this coffee machine is a freaking nightmare to use. A love hate relationship which after many years, needs to end.
I agree. But check out this video to lessen the frustrations: ua-cam.com/video/sROWUygcGho/v-deo.html
#1 mistake that holds most people back: Not reading the manual! LaPavoni has an instructional video which shows tips like lifting the lever to just before infusion before clipping in the portafilter. Most inexperienced users don't listen, clip in the filter, and yank the lever, destroying the puck. How to do that without lifting the machine? It's in the manual and video! Basically just use your filter hand to hold the tank cap down.
"Grind finer for less pressure" wrong! You saw it yourself. Finer = more more pressure. Think of a coarse french press. No pressure at all. You probably overextacted the first shot, corrected the exact wrong way, jerked the lever up... Watch some James Hoffman my guy. Your technique is quite bad.
Hi there! My LP is used from 1997, and didn't come with a manual anymore. But you're right, I should see if I can find one online.
By the way, I said "I think I need a little more pressure, maybe grinding slightly finer."
Cheers!
I honestly can’t understand WHY they call it “professional “. It’s definitely not a machine that you would ever use in a small business. And for the price, it’s laughable!
My advice: don’t buy one. I had one for a few years, hated it. Too much variables. Save some more money and buy an e61 machine.
They are certainly challenging to use, yes.
This entire video looked like a guy about to hurt himself. Really awkward.
Admittedly, it is awkward to operate this machine from behind.
Really…….could you be bothered?
all that work for that? waste.
Only $1000 for a machine that isn’t stable and requires a lot of effort. Hmm, I’ll pass.
Well, they are still fun to play with. You can find them on the used market for cheaper. I believe I paid €300 for mine.
Search a used one, you can find them from 50 to 300 bucks in a very good condition.
Looks gimmicky and mediocre at best. Hard pass on this machine.
Well, somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m thinking these were invented before the small piston pumps like the Ulka became popular. It’s certainly not as comfortable to use as a pump machine, but it’s interesting nonetheless.
No thanks
There are some nice upgrades for this machine, which I will be showcasing, soon.