Given how few NEXTs there are that are not working with Collard I agree that this Arms Fort was likely made to take down Normals and lesser units. It is more a glorified fighter than anything else. Great for taking out any small rebel group that might try to threaten the Corporations, and cheaper to build. It could probably also chase down any rebels who would prefer hit and run tactics. The older model was better against NEXTs for sure, but a different war a different tool.
I feel like The Eclipse could have been a really effective Transport Arms Fort if it was allowed to carry more. It can carry MTs and debatably Normals since we know that there are Avalanche normals at the Satellite Cannons on Hard. But given a NEXT can stand directly on top of it, I feel like if this thing could carry a NEXT, it would have been a very formidable AF. This makes me wonder if The Spirit of Motherwill could carry an AC like an aircraft carrier. Either way, very weak AF, but it has potential.
True since we have the art book that shows us a hanger with what looks to be normal in there it just seems strange no one thought about the giant space on top as a fatal weakness. Then again since it was massed produced perhaps going for cost over usefulness.
The main potential it have is the fact it follow the estabished doctrine post lynx war: Energy Weapon And Speed over Armor. As all NEXT built post lynx war are built around weight cutting and increased generator and booster performance. Compared to the other armsfort that focuses on being the biggest and baddest lighter arms fort like eclipse and stygro has more potential as a lynx cant just fire the biggest weapon/ most powerful blade in their weakspots and call it a day. But if you can have 5 or 3 fermi for 1 of this i'd stick with the fermi swarm as while its speed isn't much the fact its flying, can take a few hits and able to cover each other which also translate to covering MT, Normals And NEXT makes it a overall better combined arms platform. I'd argue the reason lighter mobile fotress is ditched out is just because they arguably have the same individual power of a Low-medium Ranker lynx think about it if a single fermi go rogue it is more than capable of wiping out a small base with just MT and Normals guarding it.
@@andrewrogers3067 According to what i have on hand since as always there is so little. The armored core a new order for next book would seem to suggest that Omer brought a lot of these. So on that i would say the two strayed encounters are both Omers. Of course there is always a possibility BFF brought one but it has yet to be mentioned. and if i put my theory hat on as well i would say that Omer suggested BFF for this attack and when Bff said can we have support? Omer said sure we'll send you an arms fort.
I despise the Eclipse for how obnoxious it is to fight, especially when piloting slower GA-based NEXTs. Dudes literally be going outside the combat area to turn and its just ughhh
Okokok, but here me out: it's environmentally friendly. Fermi aerial fortress? Kojima particles. If they deployed those suckers to an area too many times, the area became uninhabitable. So, the Eclipse is weaker, but only because of that constraint. Imagine if Arms Forts were still using Kojima tech. They'd be unstoppable war machines, but the surface of the planet would be rendered uninhabitable. Also consider that although most players consider the Eclipse to be very easy to beat, in-universe pilots don't change their crafts' loadouts, ever. So most craft cannot simply boost on top of them. Maybe Wynne D Fanchion, Otsdarva, and a few others have the coordination and engine output to land on one of these things and pummel it like the player would. As another comment pointed out, these craft have speed, range, and downward firepower to fight just about anything besides another Arms Fort or a Next. Let's start asking questions. If I was head of corporate security, and I had command over a fleet of Eclipses, how would I use them? They have speed, downward firepower, and probably long range. I think I'd deploy them primarily in urban areas where enemies are trying to take cover behind buildings. You either fly the Eclipse over the building or around it, and bombard them from above. These are also excellent fast response craft against small scale intrusions or insurrections. Imagine a mine where the workers revolt and local security are taken out. A single Eclipse can destroy anything outside the mine entrance, and contain the rebels as long as needed until a force can be assembled to retake the mine. The other question, what's with the flat top? This is a giant flying Arms Fort, it travels at high speed, but its got poor aerodynamics. What gives? It's been mentioned the thing looks like it was made to transport something. Others have said it could transport Nexts on top, or maybe a group of Normals. I think that's wrong. Something that big and flat screams of INDUSTRIAL use. Don't consider transport only from land-to-land locations. Remember, half of all people live in Cradles in the sky - those big wings with engines strapped to them, and some scaffolding to hold it all together. What happens if an engine turbine goes down? Do they land the Cradle for repairs? No. Anything constructed has to be transported to the Cradles mid-flight. That's what I think that flat top is for - it's big enough to carry parts of Cradles, and versatile enough that a variety of shapes can be placed on it. Helicopters won't work, since the air is so thin you can't generate enough lift to carry stuff. Traditional jet designs depend too much on their shape and speed to generate lift. The only option is something enormous like the Eclipse that can boost itself up and adjust its speed to match the Cradles. Tethers to lift stuff also have limited utility - you can't get into correct position with wires hanging below your craft, and deliveries have to go at the installation point, since the ability to move heavy objects on the cradle is very limited - there are no big cranes, elevators, jacks, etc. seen on the Cradles. So, ultimately, I think Eclipses were really armed transports for the Cradles. The only times you see them deployed, it's an act of desperation on Omer's part. Against Megalis, Omer knows they have a very narrow window of opportunity to destroy Megalis before the anti-aircraft guns come online. An Omer commander probably decided it was worth the risk. They miscalculated. The other time is against the Anti-Satellite Batteries. These are similar to Megalis in that they're very tall structures. For some reason, both Eclipses were navigated incorrectly. Since their targets are so tall, and they don't need to engage enemy units, they should have been flying as high as possible (while still being in rang eof their targets) and avoiding combat as much as they could. Instead, both Eclipses flew quite a bit lower, and this critical mistake is what allowed the player to land on them. I don't know what to conclude about that - maybe the crew was suicidal? You also never see an Eclipse crash and get destroyed. You only ever manage to make them retreat in flames. At 3:40, the interesting thing is how the craft is flying away while spinning. This prevents you from focusing fire on any specific part of the craft. Where was this ingenuity before? This does show the main engines aren't fully utilized in battle - the craft can maintain its current speed while moving sideways with its auxiliary thrusters only. If I'm right about the Eclipse being a transport, then the engines are over sized to compensate for extra weight and drag from cargo it would be carrying. Now, the Cradles and their construction would be an interesting conversation. Given their massive size and the fact they're basically wings with engines on them, I wonder how much of them was assembled on the ground, and how much was assembled at elevation, supported by multiple Eclipses or Eclipse-like craft. The overall dive into the subject might be better said somewhere else.
I'm going to need a cup of tea again. Ha ha but yes you do make some good points, I do hope we get to see more of the backstage work in the future ac6 game.
Ah the aerial dinner plate... you could probably make three full course meals in the time it takes for it to become a actual threat to anything, I have seen MTs put up more of a fight then the Eclipse.
See funny you should say that as there was a plan to include how much damage this arms-fort weapons would do to certain nexts. However even when i was standing still the attacks never hit.
@@armoredcorelore absolutely same here plus watching all these, reliving all those old memories of the old AC titles and just getting back into the swing of things with armored core is great!! Bravo!!
If you were to stack NEXT on top of each other and Eclipse on its side in-game, it will only take 5-10 NEXT to match its size, meaning in-game, is around 50m-100m. You can argue the NEXT are downgraded too in terms of size, but no matter you look at it, Eclipse way too small for what it is and basically slightly larger Project Phantasma. Of course, console limitation come into play here, but still, I would love to see all the AF in its full-size and glory. Now imagine if every AF was its full-size, this boi will be around half or full size of the downgraded Cradle, but Cradle "actual" size might be ~10x times its current size. You can look at AF Great Wall concept art, Great Wall is EXTREMELY MASSIVE compare to the Normals/NEXT on the ground (or let alone AF Land Crab). Thank you for coming to my useless TED-Talk, see you next video.
@@Errorcutive I'm talking about just the general size of AF according to the concept art and then compare it to in-game. Probably stupid analogy, but, it give the same feeling as Shadow of the Colossus. Phalanx are massive and looks intimidating yet peaceful, same like Cradle. You also have Great Wall, but it's disappointingly easy, especially the interior is really small. If the size of Great Wall was the same as the concept art, the inside will basically be a glorified parking lot. Eclipse are closer to Avion. The size give that sense of adrenaline rush of you know you are alone against all odds or with friend, the same feeling as beating Exusia together in ACVD. It's never about complexity, it's about the size, that satisfying feeling after beating such a massive lads.
Well thank you for that TED talk. It is true as the say the scale of this fort was quite scaled down, the reason i feel the arms-fort did not have that real impact they should have. Like motherwill though one of the better arms-forts battle in my mind it should have been larger, more going on it for a lynx to focus on. Really facing one of these should be a death wish like the game makes them out to be. These massive machine of war who have taken down nexts before with thier sheer fire power, the sky alight with fire and missiles as they rain down upon the foolish lynx who think they can take on these giants. And as for the answerer it needed to be a laser shows with a next being forced to use hit and run tactic as lasers and kojima blasts.
A solid lore video, I feel like this fort would do best like the land Crab, being deployed in groups of 2 or even 3 so they can support eachother in battle, with support from smaller air units like those heavily armed Attack choppers with missiles, they could be a truly threatening presence I think
@@armoredcorelore indeed, though I will say fighting both Ambient and Wong Shao-Lung at the same time is a pain, especially when an Eclipse and Silent Avalanche are providing fire support lol
@@armoredcorelore the only thing I think could make the eclipse a bit more of a worthy arms fort is honestly have two sets of homing missiles so it could at most make a lynx have somewhat a more difficult time since it could act more in suppressing the target somewhat like motherwill
To be honest, i am coming to the end of my list of Armored core 4 and for answer to do list. I have some mayor topics such as AMS and kojima particles to cover after which i will seriously consider moving onto the other games. Yes there are some arms-forts, next and lynxs that remain but perhaps i can spilt them such as for two weeks cover one game and then the next two weeks to finish off the topics of AC4 and for answer. I have to think about this though before i commit.
I wish we saw the fort a bit more throughout the game, but I I get the lore of it not being an effective next model during the for answer segment of the 4th gen era. But it would of been nice to see 2 variants, one for decimating simple Mt and normal troops, and one better for nexts that could use a form of assault armour similar to the the answerer and more point defence lasers, would really keep you on your toes then
That would have been neat certainly would have made the video longer. Still i think i'd like to have seen maybe a transport variant which focus was simply to transport large groups of mts and normals and oh for someone to put a large 360 gun onto of the it.
@@armoredcorelore a transportation Variant would of been really cool, also would of made a lot of sense. Like I really liked the idea of the spirit of mother will basically being a walking normal/aircraft carrier, would of been interesting to see smaller variations of that too
Last organic comment then I'll leave you alone for a minute lol. I look forward to the AF Great Wall video, because then I'll have access to the full pantheon of relevant AFs for my stint in the Project. They're subjects of interest in my telling. Lynx/NEXTs, and AFs. I'm so excited to see the videos. Seriously good stuff.
Given how few NEXTs there are that are not working with Collard I agree that this Arms Fort was likely made to take down Normals and lesser units. It is more a glorified fighter than anything else. Great for taking out any small rebel group that might try to threaten the Corporations, and cheaper to build. It could probably also chase down any rebels who would prefer hit and run tactics. The older model was better against NEXTs for sure, but a different war a different tool.
Finally, I have found my people.
welcome to the promised land where we wait for the return of the messiah prophesied by the sacred scriptures (leaks)
I feel like The Eclipse could have been a really effective Transport Arms Fort if it was allowed to carry more.
It can carry MTs and debatably Normals since we know that there are Avalanche normals at the Satellite Cannons on Hard. But given a NEXT can stand directly on top of it, I feel like if this thing could carry a NEXT, it would have been a very formidable AF.
This makes me wonder if The Spirit of Motherwill could carry an AC like an aircraft carrier.
Either way, very weak AF, but it has potential.
True since we have the art book that shows us a hanger with what looks to be normal in there it just seems strange no one thought about the giant space on top as a fatal weakness. Then again since it was massed produced perhaps going for cost over usefulness.
@@armoredcorelore they wanted quantity over quality. Their mistake. You never skimp on the quality.
@@armoredcorelore Did the Eclipse we see on the satalite cannon owned by Omer? Or did BFF buy one?
The main potential it have is the fact it follow the estabished doctrine post lynx war: Energy Weapon And Speed over Armor. As all NEXT built post lynx war are built around weight cutting and increased generator and booster performance.
Compared to the other armsfort that focuses on being the biggest and baddest lighter arms fort like eclipse and stygro has more potential as a lynx cant just fire the biggest weapon/ most powerful blade in their weakspots and call it a day.
But if you can have 5 or 3 fermi for 1 of this i'd stick with the fermi swarm as while its speed isn't much the fact its flying, can take a few hits and able to cover each other which also translate to covering MT, Normals And NEXT makes it a overall better combined arms platform.
I'd argue the reason lighter mobile fotress is ditched out is just because they arguably have the same individual power of a Low-medium Ranker lynx think about it if a single fermi go rogue it is more than capable of wiping out a small base with just MT and Normals guarding it.
@@andrewrogers3067 According to what i have on hand since as always there is so little.
The armored core a new order for next book would seem to suggest that Omer brought a lot of these. So on that i would say the two strayed encounters are both Omers. Of course there is always a possibility BFF brought one but it has yet to be mentioned.
and if i put my theory hat on as well i would say that Omer suggested BFF for this attack and when Bff said can we have support? Omer said sure we'll send you an arms fort.
Eclipse An Aerial Arms Fort Good Work on the Lore Man
Thank you
I despise the Eclipse for how obnoxious it is to fight, especially when piloting slower GA-based NEXTs. Dudes literally be going outside the combat area to turn and its just ughhh
Yes it does have a habit of that, the amount of times i went out of bounds trying to get a good shot of the fort.
Man I love your channel. Every time you mention us “Lynx” I grin.
Thank you and as i said its what all the lynx here say that make it worth it.
Okokok, but here me out: it's environmentally friendly. Fermi aerial fortress? Kojima particles. If they deployed those suckers to an area too many times, the area became uninhabitable. So, the Eclipse is weaker, but only because of that constraint. Imagine if Arms Forts were still using Kojima tech. They'd be unstoppable war machines, but the surface of the planet would be rendered uninhabitable.
Also consider that although most players consider the Eclipse to be very easy to beat, in-universe pilots don't change their crafts' loadouts, ever. So most craft cannot simply boost on top of them. Maybe Wynne D Fanchion, Otsdarva, and a few others have the coordination and engine output to land on one of these things and pummel it like the player would. As another comment pointed out, these craft have speed, range, and downward firepower to fight just about anything besides another Arms Fort or a Next.
Let's start asking questions. If I was head of corporate security, and I had command over a fleet of Eclipses, how would I use them? They have speed, downward firepower, and probably long range. I think I'd deploy them primarily in urban areas where enemies are trying to take cover behind buildings. You either fly the Eclipse over the building or around it, and bombard them from above. These are also excellent fast response craft against small scale intrusions or insurrections. Imagine a mine where the workers revolt and local security are taken out. A single Eclipse can destroy anything outside the mine entrance, and contain the rebels as long as needed until a force can be assembled to retake the mine.
The other question, what's with the flat top? This is a giant flying Arms Fort, it travels at high speed, but its got poor aerodynamics. What gives? It's been mentioned the thing looks like it was made to transport something. Others have said it could transport Nexts on top, or maybe a group of Normals. I think that's wrong. Something that big and flat screams of INDUSTRIAL use. Don't consider transport only from land-to-land locations. Remember, half of all people live in Cradles in the sky - those big wings with engines strapped to them, and some scaffolding to hold it all together. What happens if an engine turbine goes down? Do they land the Cradle for repairs? No. Anything constructed has to be transported to the Cradles mid-flight. That's what I think that flat top is for - it's big enough to carry parts of Cradles, and versatile enough that a variety of shapes can be placed on it. Helicopters won't work, since the air is so thin you can't generate enough lift to carry stuff. Traditional jet designs depend too much on their shape and speed to generate lift. The only option is something enormous like the Eclipse that can boost itself up and adjust its speed to match the Cradles. Tethers to lift stuff also have limited utility - you can't get into correct position with wires hanging below your craft, and deliveries have to go at the installation point, since the ability to move heavy objects on the cradle is very limited - there are no big cranes, elevators, jacks, etc. seen on the Cradles.
So, ultimately, I think Eclipses were really armed transports for the Cradles. The only times you see them deployed, it's an act of desperation on Omer's part. Against Megalis, Omer knows they have a very narrow window of opportunity to destroy Megalis before the anti-aircraft guns come online. An Omer commander probably decided it was worth the risk. They miscalculated. The other time is against the Anti-Satellite Batteries. These are similar to Megalis in that they're very tall structures. For some reason, both Eclipses were navigated incorrectly. Since their targets are so tall, and they don't need to engage enemy units, they should have been flying as high as possible (while still being in rang eof their targets) and avoiding combat as much as they could. Instead, both Eclipses flew quite a bit lower, and this critical mistake is what allowed the player to land on them. I don't know what to conclude about that - maybe the crew was suicidal?
You also never see an Eclipse crash and get destroyed. You only ever manage to make them retreat in flames. At 3:40, the interesting thing is how the craft is flying away while spinning. This prevents you from focusing fire on any specific part of the craft. Where was this ingenuity before? This does show the main engines aren't fully utilized in battle - the craft can maintain its current speed while moving sideways with its auxiliary thrusters only. If I'm right about the Eclipse being a transport, then the engines are over sized to compensate for extra weight and drag from cargo it would be carrying.
Now, the Cradles and their construction would be an interesting conversation. Given their massive size and the fact they're basically wings with engines on them, I wonder how much of them was assembled on the ground, and how much was assembled at elevation, supported by multiple Eclipses or Eclipse-like craft. The overall dive into the subject might be better said somewhere else.
I'm going to need a cup of tea again. Ha ha but yes you do make some good points, I do hope we get to see more of the backstage work in the future ac6 game.
It relies on its speed and that’s the sound of every lynx pilot laughing if that’s what speed is
Yeah not the brightest idea here with the eclipse.
Funny and Impratical , peak armored core design
Ah the aerial dinner plate... you could probably make three full course meals in the time it takes for it to become a actual threat to anything, I have seen MTs put up more of a fight then the Eclipse.
See funny you should say that as there was a plan to include how much damage this arms-fort weapons would do to certain nexts. However even when i was standing still the attacks never hit.
The baby armsfort compared to its gigachad brothers
I can’t wait for this channel to blow up and get the recognition it deserves now that ACVI is coming out
That very kind of you to say. I admit I'm just happy to see armored core back in the spotlight.
@@armoredcorelore absolutely same here plus watching all these, reliving all those old memories of the old AC titles and just getting back into the swing of things with armored core is great!! Bravo!!
Oh boy, here comes the wimp pilot for the next video.
I'm sure if we ask him he's just cautious after all he wants to kick ass but someone else can clean up right.
I liked this boss a lot, was a very cool sight seeing it fly overhead while fighting other forces/NEXT's
If you were to stack NEXT on top of each other and Eclipse on its side in-game, it will only take 5-10 NEXT to match its size, meaning in-game, is around 50m-100m. You can argue the NEXT are downgraded too in terms of size, but no matter you look at it, Eclipse way too small for what it is and basically slightly larger Project Phantasma. Of course, console limitation come into play here, but still, I would love to see all the AF in its full-size and glory.
Now imagine if every AF was its full-size, this boi will be around half or full size of the downgraded Cradle, but Cradle "actual" size might be ~10x times its current size. You can look at AF Great Wall concept art, Great Wall is EXTREMELY MASSIVE compare to the Normals/NEXT on the ground (or let alone AF Land Crab).
Thank you for coming to my useless TED-Talk, see you next video.
I don't know if the size really matter, scale doesn't add up to complexity, but texture resolution probably what it is...
@@Errorcutive I'm talking about just the general size of AF according to the concept art and then compare it to in-game.
Probably stupid analogy, but, it give the same feeling as Shadow of the Colossus. Phalanx are massive and looks intimidating yet peaceful, same like Cradle.
You also have Great Wall, but it's disappointingly easy, especially the interior is really small. If the size of Great Wall was the same as the concept art, the inside will basically be a glorified parking lot. Eclipse are closer to Avion.
The size give that sense of adrenaline rush of you know you are alone against all odds or with friend, the same feeling as beating Exusia together in ACVD. It's never about complexity, it's about the size, that satisfying feeling after beating such a massive lads.
Well thank you for that TED talk. It is true as the say the scale of this fort was quite scaled down, the reason i feel the arms-fort did not have that real impact they should have. Like motherwill though one of the better arms-forts battle in my mind it should have been larger, more going on it for a lynx to focus on.
Really facing one of these should be a death wish like the game makes them out to be. These massive machine of war who have taken down nexts before with thier sheer fire power, the sky alight with fire and missiles as they rain down upon the foolish lynx who think they can take on these giants. And as for the answerer it needed to be a laser shows with a next being forced to use hit and run tactic as lasers and kojima blasts.
The Eclipse is basically an UAF.
Unidentified
Arms
Fort
A solid lore video, I feel like this fort would do best like the land Crab, being deployed in groups of 2 or even 3 so they can support eachother in battle, with support from smaller air units like those heavily armed Attack choppers with missiles, they could be a truly threatening presence I think
You know if they had done this on the defend anti satellites cannons, i think we may have had a real battle.
@@armoredcorelore indeed, though I will say fighting both Ambient and Wong Shao-Lung at the same time is a pain, especially when an Eclipse and Silent Avalanche are providing fire support lol
Eclipse is really a pushover
Sadly i have to agree, it could have been so much more.
@@armoredcorelore the only thing I think could make the eclipse a bit more of a worthy arms fort is honestly have two sets of homing missiles so it could at most make a lynx have somewhat a more difficult time since it could act more in suppressing the target somewhat like motherwill
Wished you'd talk about the older AC games and the company's in them
To be honest, i am coming to the end of my list of Armored core 4 and for answer to do list. I have some mayor topics such as AMS and kojima particles to cover after which i will seriously consider moving onto the other games. Yes there are some arms-forts, next and lynxs that remain but perhaps i can spilt them such as for two weeks cover one game and then the next two weeks to finish off the topics of AC4 and for answer. I have to think about this though before i commit.
I wish we saw the fort a bit more throughout the game, but I I get the lore of it not being an effective next model during the for answer segment of the 4th gen era. But it would of been nice to see 2 variants, one for decimating simple Mt and normal troops, and one better for nexts that could use a form of assault armour similar to the the answerer and more point defence lasers, would really keep you on your toes then
That would have been neat certainly would have made the video longer. Still i think i'd like to have seen maybe a transport variant which focus was simply to transport large groups of mts and normals and oh for someone to put a large 360 gun onto of the it.
@@armoredcorelore a transportation Variant would of been really cool, also would of made a lot of sense. Like I really liked the idea of the spirit of mother will basically being a walking normal/aircraft carrier, would of been interesting to see smaller variations of that too
Armsfort overall issues. Not enough weapons to remove nexts landing on them.
Yay ac lore!
Whoop!
*Wink wink* fermi lore after ash ?
Oh no this time we're going big!
can make lore nineball?
Yes when i get to that generation of AC.
Next week is Patch the Good Luck??
Sounds more like the pilot for celebrity ash.
@@Livid72Des I was wondering a little, since the last bit are sound like Patch
I believe it is the same voice actor so it could be.
I love that my second sound test went live today at 9:30 my time (10:30 at time of typing this). And you drop this today.
Yeah. That's right. Walter is back for more.
Last organic comment then I'll leave you alone for a minute lol.
I look forward to the AF Great Wall video, because then I'll have access to the full pantheon of relevant AFs for my stint in the Project. They're subjects of interest in my telling. Lynx/NEXTs, and AFs.
I'm so excited to see the videos. Seriously good stuff.
MY GUY, THAT END SEGMENT. BRUH.