Seven: Of YOUR WORLD, Davros! I am the damnation you fail to elude! The very wage of sin you receive at the apex of your destructive power. I could've wiped you from existence, wiped all of your race from existence, but every ending must have a beginning. Your beginnings are cast into shadow, now your ending is cast in light. Burning light!
@@angryengine9616 yup, never understood how there's even a pretence of a moral high ground, that line doesn't work from someone trying to do that, even if davros wasn't trying to do that he still created the daleks.
The Master ran into the embodiment of the Doctor's darkest self only a couple of Seasons earlier. He was so terrified he teamed up with Sixie to beat him.
I completely agree with former Doctor Who writer Terrance Dicks when he said that an actor, in order to be a great Doctor, had to be able to be seen as a potential villain; as threatening. He said that's why Tom Baker's Doctor worked so well. Sylvester McCoy's Doctor became infinitely better when they made him darker in Season Twenty-Five. That's also why I enjoyed Peter Capaldi's Doctor so much. As it was with the first Doctor, one should never be completely comfortable with the Doctor. The Doctor is alien and may not necessarily share the values of human beings.
@@maxkennedy7430 Capaldi is the one who most reminds me of the classic doctors. His doctor is the best one there because of that; Tennant and Smith are great bu they just seem too off.
@TheBobBrom Helen-A and the Happiness Patrol was a not-so-subtle dig at the Thatcher era England was enduring at the time, much like other shows such as Spitting Image were doing on a regular basis. To say that this makes them aligned with some other political viewpoint is akin to accusing me of being a vegetarian if I make a joke about cabbage. 7th's era specifically did a lot of subtle (and some not so subtle) subtexts. Remembrance and its understory of racism, Happiness Patrol as a political satire, GTITGalaxy being a self-satire, etc.
Let's examine this. 1st: Oh he starts villainous so yes. Hartnell always played villains. 2nd: Troughton can be whatever you want. Look at his career. And his Doctor could occasionally be quite grey... 3rd: Pertwee didn't play villains but his Doctor was EXTREMELY pompous and arrogant. So quite possibly. 4th: Baker and his Doctor are insane, cantankerous and slightly unstable. Yes, the 4th Doctor could have been a great villain, and Baker has played villains before (with mixed effects). 5th: The 5th Doctor is an exception. I can't view him as any sort of villain. He's one of my least favourite Doctors though so... Davidson on the other hand, like Troughton, can play whatever you want. Great actor. 6th: Baker has a career of playing baddies and his Doctor is famous for being a nasty piece of work. 7th: McCoy had a few breaks in serious acting playing baddies before the Doctor but it's not his forte. Yet the Seventh Doctor only takes off when he starts blowing up planets... yeah he fits. 8th: We didn't get to see enough of him to know but Night hinted at his darker sides. On audio though, yes, he also fits. And McGann can and has acted all sorts. War: By definition 'dark' and also John Hurt is a legend. 9th: Also a darker Doctor due to his disdain for pretty much everybody and his murderous streak appears in Dalek. Eccleston is known to play intense villains so yes it suits. 10th: Family of Blood. Time Lord Victorious. Purple Man. 'Nuff said. 11th: I dunno with him. They write him as if he has this darker side but I don't ever feel convinced he could be this badass that someone like Eccleston or McCoy delivers on. He's too childish to make it happen! But Matt Smith is a stunning actor and if a villain you want a villain you get. 12th: Capaldi is Malcolm and he's Grumpy Scots Doctor. Plus he goes quite evil in Four Doctors so yes I'll buy this. 13th: Dull as dish water and no, she's a set of accents and isms to give her any depth which she hasn't got. I havent seen Whittaker's work to know what else she plays. So for me all of them are dark or are played by actors who can play villains, except 5, 11 and 13 don't convince me. In 5 and 11s case it's not the actor though. In 13s case, hippy happy rainbow dust Doctor is just poor all around. So yeah I agree with Uncle Terrance. His theory holds true if you look at each Doctor with only Davidson being a clear exception. And I know Smith fans can argue the toss about him so... Jodie shows us that her Doctor doesn't fit.
Like everything RTD wrote it was stolen from better writers who wrote for McCoy in the wilderness years. Also its the Draconians that called him that. Daleks don't have a vocabulary complex enough to say the words "oncoming storm"
@@DarthAzabrush Davies and Moffat are hacks galore. Plus everything they did (and that worm Chibnall) screams "NOTICE ME!!" at Michael Grade....and he always says "NO!" And the former was the one who wrote a full length novel that got adapted to audio five years ago
@@SuperWolsey Chibnall at least has a grounding in the basic laws of the Whoniverse and the power level, genre and tone the show should be. RTD gave us 5 years of nothing but the work of much better men rewritten by a manchild and though Moffat's era had its occasional charms it was pretty high fantasy and deliberately shat on any bits of canon he didn't like.
@@DarthAzabrush RTD and Moff gave us exciting stories that gripped you. Chibnall does not understand Doctor Who or how to write for the Doctor. RTD and Moff continued and expanded upon the foundations that had been laid before. Chibnall has shat all over it.
Holy crap. If the 7th Doctor is angry with you fall on your knees and beg for mercy... although I'm not sure the 7th Doctor would grant it... Deep respect for Sylvester McCoy's performance, that was impressive. I'm liking the 7th Doctor more and more.
Well the creatures in his universe sort of hates him no? Not all but mostly the strong ones claiming their own self righteousness and justice. But man does this villain tone still make The Doctor great!
This is a prime example (outside of the show) of why Sylvester McCoy's 7th Doctor is one of my favourites, the most alien and ambiguous incarnation, but never to the point where you question his goal to do good...only what he does BASED on said goal, always making for an interesting DW story when that comes into play.
He's still the darkest Doctor in Whostory to date, though you're right, one doesn't doubt his end-goal for good. On the other hand, 7 is very aware that 'good' and 'kind' are two very different things, and nobody can be 100% certain what road he would take to secure that end-goal. There's a reason many people say that if 7 was fighting the Time-War, he'd have resolved it very quickly. If any Doctor would bend the rules in the name of good, no matter how grey it gets, 7 would do it, then tip his hat like the scheming little charmer he is.
Indeed, 7 probably would've saved himself and the rest of the universe so much trouble and bloodshed if he handled the Time War (then again you could say the same for A LOT of struggles the Doctor faces in the modern series if it was 7 handling things). I would love it if we had another Doctor like him on the show someday (especially if Sylvester never ends up returning in a multi-Doctor story).
Indeed. Everyone, even his allies, were pawns in the great universal chess-game. While 8,9,10,11 and even 12 are often guilty of pandering to their human counter-part, 7 was forcing his to conquer her fears and become a weapon, almost at risk of their friendship. Sure, he meant well, but he was on a mission. He also sought out evil during his tenure - never stumbling into it or being dragged into it. He was seeking out threats and burying them without remorse. This is the type of Doctor the time-war needed (assuming you needed another way to conquer it without, say, becoming a War-Doctor).
Exactly, a proactive chess-master, it was quite refreshing to have stories where the Doctor only had to worry about problems like rogue elements interfering with his plans (e.g not expecting to deal with TWO factions of Daleks...that could also go up stairs in "Remembrance of the Daleks"), or those closest to him (understandably) turning away from him due to his manipulations (e.g when he secretly tests Ace to see if she could become a Time Lord in Big Finish's "Lost Stories" range).
@@DarthAzabrush pretenders like you are not wanted in the fandom. Not only has Tennant done Big Finish, he's done Big Finish WITH Classic Doctors, all of whom have expressed what a joy he was to work with - even the famously difficult Tom Baker.
@@Althalus2010 Its amazing what you can contractually oblige someone to do and a good actor can sell it very well. Then again even Sophie Aldred couldn't hide how much it hurt to have to praise the twat who ruined her character at the end of the Audiobook of "At Childhood's End"
Here's what would have happened. The Doctor would have acted like it wasn't a major issue, heading off on some seemingly unrelated task and making jokes or talking about different things, keeping schemes and masterplans close to his chest. He would have then made so many plans (which had plans (which had backup plans (which had other plans))) that when he'd finally, randomly, seem to 'address' the Time War, it'd be during a nice nonchalant stroll with the primary antagonist to tell them just how utterly fucked that antagonist is (if any). If there was none, 2/3'rds of the way in there would be a moment like his Pandorica Speech (UA-cam it). This incident would be handled over a 2 or 3 part episode at maximum, just like Rememberance of the Daleks, where he waltzed into old-school London with a plan that would decimate his old time foe whilst simultaneously acting like this was all just by chance/accident and that he hadn't planned anything at all. His companions would be somewhat annoyed that the Doctor, yet again, has used his pawns in another game of cosmic chess so well. Cue end-credits while Ace and 7th head off for a cup of tea and watch the smoking ruins of the Galaxy he has saved for the umpteenth time.
The Daleks when they hear the Doctor is interfering in their plans Dalek 1: So what do we do Dalek 2: Go ahead as normal. If he stops us we can beg for mercy. He'll just give us a slap on the wrist and let us go Dalek 1: What if its his seventh incarnation Dalek 2: RUN!
@Malk Von Batshit THIS.. this is one of my many reasons why I hate Journey's End. The Doctor is a fucking puppy dog, he doesn't only do nothing, he scolds the people with the balls to act. Jack has a warp star, what no. Meta Doctor tries to kill Davros and stop the reality bomb, NO DON'T! The meta Doctor wipes out the race that came two seconds away from wiping out all life. HE'S TOO DANGEROUS TO BE LEFT ALIVE. Jesus Doctor, get your priorities straight.
@Malk Von Batshit Ah yes, not wanting to commit genocide clearly makes you a wimp. Just because a fictional character is a better person than you is no reason to get mad
@@cameroncaws8506 Before time war doctor would glady kill daleks. But after time war since doctor killed so many he cant do it easily, only if last resort. Besides tenth was the most human doctor, even nine couldnt do it in first season final.
A shit Doctor impersonator tries to crap on a better Doctor than he's fit to lick the boots of. Even his own wife rates McCoy over both him and her father.
Someone jokingly asked if antagonists "burst into flames" when 7 talks to them. Ironically, it's almost true. Let's check the tapes and see how various TV antagonists fared after encountering the 7th Doctor (or after hearing one of his speeches). These are just the direct (or indirect) outcomes related to the Doctor specifically. For example, the Chief Clown was handled by Ace, so he's not mentioned. If you want to avoid TV spoilers, do not click "read more". S24: *Kane* - convinced of his own futility, thus melted himself to death. S24: *Gavrok* - agreed to a temporary truce... and eventually blew himself up. S24: *Kroagnon* - provoked into a trap by 7, then blown up by a suicidal dynamite blast. - S25: *Davros* - coaxed into genocide (destruction of Skaro). S25: *Supreme Dalek* - coaxed into suicide. S25: *Cyber Fleet* - tricked into self-destruction, just like Skaro and the Dalek Mothership. S25: *Helen-A* - dead pet, depression, and a toppled govornment within one night (not dead). S25: *Kandy Man* - drowned and melted after running from 7 + Ace. S25: *The Gods of Ragnarok* - entertained to death, resulting in the first ever "cool guys don't look at explosions" moment. - S26: *Light* - coaxed into suicide, dissipating into pure energy and used as fuel. S26: *Fenric* - killed by his own henchman at 7's behest. S26: *Ancient One* - convinced of its own futility, thus killing itself and its proverbial 'boss' (Fenric). S26: *Morgaine* - an arthurian sorceress of legend... goes to UNIT prison (not dead). S26: *The Destroyer* - killed by the BRIG, though 7 did provide the inspiration needed for Silver Bullets. S26: *The Master* - left to his half-cat fate after a round of fisticuffs, and later executed by the Daleks. - Most stories have an impressive body count throughout 7's tenure. For example, barely anyone survives Curse of Fenric, which involves the near-total wipeout of British and Russian WW2 regiments (and numerous civilians). Conversely, S25 and S26 focuses on the subtle manipulation of Ace - teaching her to face her fears (against her will). If the show wasn't cancelled, Ace would have agreed to become a Time Lady in S27 (but on very bad terms with 7 due to the constant manipulation). This is just something to chew on if you genuinely believe the darkness wasn't present during the TV run. It's not as blatantly dark compared to the comics, novels, or Big Finish, but there are plenty of moments where his dark schemes are laid bare on-screen. Curse of Fenric is (arguably) the best and most obvious example, and it gets bonus points for being 100 minutes of pure Whovian horror.
I love how you put the horror on display as not as blatant as other stories, because that's the hook for me with 7. It's a subtle thing. And I didn't know Whovian Horror was the way to describe Horror that is Doctor Who writing at its best. Like the Brain of Morbius, for instance. In any case, part of what makes this subtle darker side of the Doctor is purely because he can't stand to see the suffering of others and the tormentors get off scott-free. He is the boogeyman of the bad guys with no compunctions in making them suffer. I dunno about you, but I'd sleep better at night knowing that someone like the Doctor is going around and giving the murderous creeps what they deserve. Just because he isn't human doesn't mean the things we value aren't universal and that "higher" beings like him don't care about Earthly things. That's why he keeps companions along, to spot him.
@@nickthepick8043Indeed. For example, many people can't stomach stories like Happiness Patrol, but it's got so many delicious layers of darkness underneat, and a hint of creepiness. Personally, I love the Kandy Man. Some think it looks stupid, but I love that horrific voice, and how it keeps swapping from rude and petulant child (vs) a polite and mature serial killer. Ghost Light is pretty much "Doctor Who in the Resident Evil Mansion". It has everything, from the zombie husks in the basement, to stuffed animals taunting Ace, to creepy maids living in the walls, people being turned into soup, and an Alien casually dissecting people to "see how they work". Curse of Fenric is arguably the best example. The first episode is a slow-burning build up, and each episode afterwards keeps ramping up the pace and the stakes, and that Episode 3 cliffhanger is spine-chilling. Even stories like Paradise Towers have dark moments shining through the 80's campiness, like the cannibal grannies casually chatting about "people going missing" (with their bones still sitting on the dining table). One of the reasons I give the 7th Doctor era more credit than others is because they did so much with so little, and the show was also at the height of its "Children's TV" phase, yet you'll see scenes of people melting or being turned into goop, and all kinds of horrific things that really question the age rating.
I believe in Paradise Towers he manipulates a couple of guards into letting him go. Then in The Happiness Patrol he uses reverse psychology on another couple of guards in order to prevent them from shooting him. In Battlefield he appears to hypnotise the townsfolk into believing they wanted to leave when moment's ago they were protesting about being evacuated. Even Lady Peinforte wasn't safe from his machinations, he dared her to reveal all of his secrets knowing full well the Cybermen didn't give a shit about them & he knew she & Nemesis were one & that she was doomed anyway.
@@Hodaris_DarlinAye. I love how 7 is giving Lady Painforte the "Oh god, please don't spill the beans" face, but then, immediately flips it into a jaunty "Whatever, imma work with the Cybermen", and basically tips her over the edge into pure screaming insanity. The scene with the snipers in Happiness Patrol is one of my favourites. He doesn't hyponitize - he merely plays into how the sniper was so used to killing people from afar, that he goads him into killing someone up close while looking into their eyes, and the sniper just can't do it -- and you can clearly hear 7's anger during the whole thing.
@@Hodaris_DarlinYeah he basically tricks the Deputy Chief into letting him out by pretending to flick through the rule book and making up rules that the Caretakers in the room believed
The delivery of that line is so beautiful, isn't it? Heck, the whole speech is beautiful. This is one of the many reasons why this incarnation and Sylvester are my favourite. He can do so much with his voice. He doesn't need to brandish a sonic or announce his every move.
I actually wish the 7th Doctor could encounter Derek Jacobi's Master since they are similar, being manipulators and chess players. The only difference being the Doctor does it for what he deems to be the good of the universe and his friends while Jacobi's Master does it for his own amusement.
People overlook McCoy and cast him as the last Doctor of the Classic era, when he was so much more. McCoy has acted arguably one of the most interesting incarnations of the character, with the exception of his first season, McCoy had a solid era that could rival even Baker’s at times. The trickster. If he had proceeded in his run, he would be most likely in people’s top five, and not near the bottom like he is on most people’s rankings.
Well, it's 7's way of saying "Checkmate". Talking a Supreme Dalek into killing itself, tricking Davros into self-genocide, getting two antagonists to kill eachother in Curse of Fenric, stopping Morgaine with a speech when she's about to unleash nuclear weapons, tricking the Cybermen, the way he disarms the sniper in Happiness Patrol with his mind-games... The chess-board is his playground.
One of the many reasons why I am in love with the doctor as a character. He is such a joy to be around and such a lovely person when he/she is with his/her friends.... But if someone hurts or puts those friends in danger the doctor doesn't just punish them oh no.... The doctor tears their mind, body and soul to shreds. That is love. And that is power
I'd argue the Seventh Doctor was anything but a 'good man'. Maybe one of the only Classic Doctors that wasn't. If anything, he was a bad man trying to do good in spite of himself.
@@kkhohoho1 He's a sly, manipulative and scheming chess-master on a mission to bury evil. Everything he has done has been for the greater good, and knowing the difference between 'good' and 'kind' does not make you unkind or bad. He has had to do quite a lot of unkind things for the sake of good, whereas doing the kind thing for the sake of it can have bad results. I feel people are way too soft about the Doctor's character -- this is a space-and-time traveling alien with massive influence over the galaxy who is often charged with making major decisions. This should not always end in family-friendly-happy-fun-times. There are people who look at versions like 7 and see that as being 'cruel', and those who appreciate the fact that being a Doctor would (and should) give rise to a LOT, LOT, LOT of moral-grey that should make you think. 7th's incarnation was part of the Cartmel Masterplan to bring back some of that darkness and mystery, and it's done very well. If you doubt his end-game goal for good then you need to read/watch more of him.
@@RopeDrink I agree with you - however, as the Doctor really is a space-and-time travelling being, he actually has the opportunity to "leave" this kind of dark good doing to one or two incarnations.
@@RopeDrink he also becomes very dark in some scenes, as he is generally more whimsical. (i have not seen much of big finish) however, from the show, i see a man who is silly and whimsical but has a hatred for evil and will do anything to to stop it.
The 7th Doctor was my first foray into classic Who and Remembrance of the Daleks has stuck with me as my favorite from the 26 years of classic Who. The Big Finish audios have probably cemented McCoy as the best Doctor. This speech is utterly incredible, he really needs more plaudits for his work.
As an 80's child, the first bit of Doctor Who I ever saw in my life was the Remembrance "stairs" cliffhanger on TV when growing up. I vividly remember seeing that - and how it was promoted during adverts, prepping people for Ep2. It is one of the first scenes that come to my mind whenever the Doctor, Companions, Daleks, or the show in general is raised in discussions.
@@RopeDrinkThe first Dalek to ever climb stairs. I remember it being scary for the simple fact that climbing stairs was no longer the safe place to go to escape the Daleks.
What i think makes seven so interesting is how comfortable he is with his own dark side. Most doctors tend to question their morals when they're forced to make certain decisions that go against their own ethic. Hell, even the war doctor still felt uneasy about ending the time war, despite being specially created for it. Seven? He doesn't necessarily enjoy doing this sort of stuff, but also doesn't bother much doing it. He's cold, calculating and focused on winning no matter the cost. And if people have to die in order to achieve it, so be it.
7 IS The Doctor that River Song was always talking about when she kept saying, you're still not HIM yet. Also, 7 is about the only Doctor with absolute command of the TARDIS. The other Doctors just seem to wind up wherever the TARDIS takes them, while 7 ALWAYS gets to where & when HE wants to be. I mean, look at his precise time & space hopping in Silver Nemesis, back & forth, round & round...
On Britbox they have a warning that says 'Classic Sci-fi may be too scary and unsuitable for younger audiences' or smthing like that, which makes me laugh. Yeah ones now couldnt' handle 7, meanwhile my 8 year old self was hoarding every video we had of this Doctor because I loved how he wasn't the happy-go-lucky Doctor (5, 10, and 11) that my older sister liked
We have a few times. "Call it off or I. WILL. DECAPITATE. YOU!" (Battlefield). His speech to Morgaine is also quite powerful, explaining the horror of the nuclear weapons she's threatening to use in very nasty detail. Then you have the infamous soul-crushing scene of 7 and Ace in Curse of Fenric where he butchers her trust and faith by demeaning her in front of the antagonist. You also get his disarming mind-game in Happiness Patrol where he coaxes a would-be murderer with his 'why don't you do it then?' mind-phuckery speech. Or how he coaxes Ace to face her fears in Ghostlight. Sure, it's not as blatant as this "*FEAR ME*" speech where he casually explains exactly why said antagonist should crap their pants, but he has been dark on-screen quite a lot, which is why he's my Doctor. You know he means well and you know his goal is to save the day, but he's the one who will surprise you with exactly how he accomplishes that goal compared to other incarnations.
@@RopeDrink That's awesome. I absolutely love him and I hadn't thought much about why. I do love how he understands emotions and manipulates those for dark reasons. But he is difficult to trust, and for me it's all other Doctors that put him into better perspective, I trust him only because I trust them. But otherwise I hadn't worked out why else I love him above almost all versions, but reading your comment references sheds light that he's alien and I could never feel I understand him, an amazing feeling. You have elevated my love for the Seventh Doctor. Thank you
@@RopeDrink I'd have imagined you would have gone with the classic remembrance of the daleks, his outward persona in the episode may be less frightening, but in a way that is more scary given the things he does on that episode, coldly and even mockingly.
I dunno. In Remembrance he did talk Davros into blowing up Skaro, then practically laughed in his face as Davros was begging for his life. Then, he casually walked up to the Dalek Supreme and talked it into killing itself.
@@scottishjedi1522Exactly. It's easy to forget that 7 goaded Davros into near genocide, then encouraged suicide immediately after. Sure, it was Davros and the Daleks, but hey, we're talking about the Doctor. Even 10 tried to save Davros (without any encouragement), but when Davros was literally pleading for mercy from 7, he was like "Nah, go suck an egg" and left him to his fate. The truth is, Big Finish will definitely be slightly darker than the TV show (because it gets to brush up on external media that dove into the Cartmel Masterplan and the much darker novels). However, even during the TV run, 7 talked most villains into killing themselves (or each other), showed barely any mercy whatsoever, and manipulated the piss out of his own companion along the way. He wasn't uncaring - but rather, he was on a preemptive mission and intended to win no matter what, seeking out god-level threats to stick his foot on their throat.
I mean, sure, but to be fair, that was also while he was manipulating Davros into destroying both himself and Skaro. So, like, in terms of his actions it's not that far off.
By the rules of the universe set up in the Classic Series the Time War is impossible. Its possible for a Temporal Power (not a lesser race like the Daleks) to try to take on the Time Lords but they won't because of the quantum shielding bound to its surface. Fire on Gallifrey you risk damaging the shielding and ending time as we know it forever.
@@alisonmulholland7221 No they don't, they are stagnant, literally every Classic Story explains this with no ambiguity. They do not innovate unless Davros is around and even then old Dave isn't clever enough to take on Techno Gods Billions of years more advanced than him and half of his creations inevitably try to kill him for changing the colour of their spacking cases.
This reminds me of the Death Comes to Time series, which was wierd, but had a few baddass moments. One of which is the following: "You can't interfere with the Course of Time!" "I *AM* the Course of Time! I am a God of the Fourth." (Using an old name for Time Lords here.) The series was notable for suggesting that Time Lords had ludicrous powers which they refused to use, and the villain was a rogue Time Lord masquerading as a "Regular" Alien conquer to destroy the Timelords without using such powers, so that when they were gone, he and he alone would have Godlike control of the Timeline. Essentially becoming Last of the Time Lords in an era before New Who. It was quite interesting. Fairly fanficy, and has since been declared non-canon even with the famously fuzzy canon of Doctor Who.
A trip with 8 is basically a pretty chill LSD trip complete with giant talking caterpillars. A trip with 7 is a trip into Hell, you either survive and become a better person (Ace and Benny) or run away screaming into the void (Raine, Hex, Mel)
I really want an audio with The Seventh Doctor meeting The War Master. The scariest Doctor and the scariest Master. Yes, I know it wouldn't make sense timeline-wise, but Big Finish have gotten away with crazier things in their Time War audios.
To be honest I had that same view of McCoy in the TV series (not so much the audio). Don't get me wrong he's good at being manipulative and he does being cold very well e.g. Fenric but he was never able to seem physically intimidating, like that one bit in Ghostlight were he threatens Light with his hand outstretched.
@@meris8486 Ehh. Maybe if she was written this way. She kinda reminds me of McCoy in his first series, a light, funny quirkier version to counter the perceived harshness of their last incarnation.
It somehow makes it worse that he doesn't do it himself but that he manipulates someone else to - and then there's the whole terrifying speech, which ... damn
"Fear me" The way he says it too, I get like Vietnam style flashbacks of the 7th doctor being silly and shit lol... So scary to think such a fun doctor has such a dark interior I mean all doctors besides the 5th below do but Mccoy's is just... Whoa
Yeah, just a tip: don't try to make sense of 13th era with the other ones, you wont be able to, cause chibbs doesnt give a fuck about any other era or doctor.
@@FelipeA81 "Stop! Do you hear me, stop! You've brought your fight into real time, take your war, your cruel, senseless Time War, and leave!" -The Eighth Doctor, The Sontaran Ordeal by Andrew Smith (2016)
Ironically, a deleted scene from Remembrance of the Daleks was going to have Seventh Doctor lightly imply that he was god -- and it was (unsurprisingly) cut from the episode. Davros: "You FLATTER yourself, Doctor. In the end, you are merely another TIME LORD!" Seventh: "Oh, Davros. I am FAR more than JUST another Time Lord."
1:02 I can imagine right after the Doctor’s response, it is all part of a commercial for Halloween Horror Nights. I can already imagine it and hear it playing my head. PITY ME!!! fear me……. Announcer: Face off against the wrath of the Doctor at Universal Orlando’s Halloween Horror Nights, Florida’s most scariest Halloween event. Try to survive over 10 terrifying mazes based off hits Doctor Who, Stranger Things, Halloween 4, and AMC’s The Walking Dead! Florida residents save up 20% of tickets and hotel admissions. Grab a Coke Zero to refresh your tastebuds and be able to win a free ticket, if you are able to survive. Tickets are available on the Universal website. Hurry, the Doctor is coming, and he isn’t so forgiving to his victims. *cue monsters screams of horror at end*
Let's check the tapes and see what various villains did after 7's speeches during the TV run: Kane - melted himself to death. Light - dissipated into pure energy and became fuel for a ship. Fenric - killed by his own henchman (at 7's behest). Ancient One - convinced of its own futility, thus killing itself and its proverbial 'boss' (Fenric). Gavrok - agreed to a temporary truce... and eventually blew himself up. Davros - destroyed Skaro. Supreme Dalek - self-destructed. Kroagnon - blown up by Pex via a suicidal dynamite blast. Helen-A - dead pet, depression, and a toppled govornment within one night (not dead). Kandy Man - drowned and melted after running from 7 + Ace. Morgaine - an arthurian sorceress of legend... goes to UNIT prison (not dead). The Destroyer - killed by the BRIG (though 7 provided the inspiration needed for Silver Bullets). The Master - left to his half-cat fate after a round of fisticuffs, and later executed by the Daleks. The Gods of Ragnarok - were entertained to death, resulting in the first ever "cool guys don't look at explosions". Those are just TV examples off the top of my head. In short, people don't usually 'burst into flames'. It's usually MUCH worse than that.
It's so bizarre to have the new era treat the War Doctor like he was so bad he had to be forgotten and didn't have the title of The Doctor anymore, when the Doctor themselves are conceivably just as bad.
@@JamieSwitzerdidn’t the 10th and 11th Doctors realise they were wrong about War, and acknowledge that all of them would’ve done the same in his position (which they prove by joining him at the big red button)?
If he called himself "The Time Lord Victorious" I would hide under the bed. I'm realizing the Sixth Doctor acted all 6-like because he didn't like how he was treated when he was the 5th Doctor, but he still cared. And the 7th Doctor still cared but wanted to find a different way to get things done that he couldn't do as 6, even if it meant being a total chessmaster or scaring the crap out of people.
The 7th doctor loves killing, destroys 400 daleks and more on skaro, talked a supreme into committing suicide, blowing up a cyber fleet, makes daleks kill there own kind. Only thing I have seen
It's kinda timey wimey. War got the name The Oncoming Storm and 10 was called The Destroyer of Worlds. But 7 heard these names referring to him before he got them, sort of like 1 in Twice Upon a Time hearing all his title including the doctor of war.
Davros: YOU DOCTOR, YOU ARE THE DESTROYOR OF WORLDS!!
Seven: Damn fucking right i am.
“I am more than just that Davros, *much worse* “
The fact Davros used that line after trying to destroy all of existence is hilarious.
Davros: 10th DOCTOR, SAVE ME! SAVE ME!
Seven: Of YOUR WORLD, Davros! I am the damnation you fail to elude! The very wage of sin you receive at the apex of your destructive power. I could've wiped you from existence, wiped all of your race from existence, but every ending must have a beginning.
Your beginnings are cast into shadow, now your ending is cast in light. Burning light!
@@angryengine9616 yup, never understood how there's even a pretence of a moral high ground, that line doesn't work from someone trying to do that, even if davros wasn't trying to do that he still created the daleks.
*“Fear me.”*
I think even the Master would be afraid of that and Davros would seethe with anger and be nervous if they both heard that monologue.
The Master ran into the embodiment of the Doctor's darkest self only a couple of Seasons earlier. He was so terrified he teamed up with Sixie to beat him.
@@DarthAzabrush could you please tell me which story this is? It sounds interesting, but I’m not very knowledgeable about the vast amount of lore…
@@heymikey4025 Trial of a Time Lord: aka Season 23.
12 also went full on scary re Delgado's master in a comic called Hell on Earth.
@@laurenceroberts5239which one is that? when was it released? can't seem to find any reference on it in the internet
I completely agree with former Doctor Who writer Terrance Dicks when he said that an actor, in order to be a great Doctor, had to be able to be seen as a potential villain; as threatening. He said that's why Tom Baker's Doctor worked so well. Sylvester McCoy's Doctor became infinitely better when they made him darker in Season Twenty-Five. That's also why I enjoyed Peter Capaldi's Doctor so much. As it was with the first Doctor, one should never be completely comfortable with the Doctor. The Doctor is alien and may not necessarily share the values of human beings.
TheBobBrom that bit in Rosa in the warehouse between her and Krasko was getting there.
Apart from that though I pretty much agree.
But Capaldi SUUUUUUUCKS!!! 😂👌
@@maxkennedy7430 Capaldi is the one who most reminds me of the classic doctors. His doctor is the best one there because of that; Tennant and Smith are great bu they just seem too off.
@TheBobBrom Helen-A and the Happiness Patrol was a not-so-subtle dig at the Thatcher era England was enduring at the time, much like other shows such as Spitting Image were doing on a regular basis. To say that this makes them aligned with some other political viewpoint is akin to accusing me of being a vegetarian if I make a joke about cabbage. 7th's era specifically did a lot of subtle (and some not so subtle) subtexts. Remembrance and its understory of racism, Happiness Patrol as a political satire, GTITGalaxy being a self-satire, etc.
Let's examine this.
1st: Oh he starts villainous so yes. Hartnell always played villains.
2nd: Troughton can be whatever you want. Look at his career. And his Doctor could occasionally be quite grey...
3rd: Pertwee didn't play villains but his Doctor was EXTREMELY pompous and arrogant. So quite possibly.
4th: Baker and his Doctor are insane, cantankerous and slightly unstable. Yes, the 4th Doctor could have been a great villain, and Baker has played villains before (with mixed effects).
5th: The 5th Doctor is an exception. I can't view him as any sort of villain. He's one of my least favourite Doctors though so... Davidson on the other hand, like Troughton, can play whatever you want. Great actor.
6th: Baker has a career of playing baddies and his Doctor is famous for being a nasty piece of work.
7th: McCoy had a few breaks in serious acting playing baddies before the Doctor but it's not his forte. Yet the Seventh Doctor only takes off when he starts blowing up planets... yeah he fits.
8th: We didn't get to see enough of him to know but Night hinted at his darker sides. On audio though, yes, he also fits. And McGann can and has acted all sorts.
War: By definition 'dark' and also John Hurt is a legend.
9th: Also a darker Doctor due to his disdain for pretty much everybody and his murderous streak appears in Dalek. Eccleston is known to play intense villains so yes it suits.
10th: Family of Blood. Time Lord Victorious. Purple Man. 'Nuff said.
11th: I dunno with him. They write him as if he has this darker side but I don't ever feel convinced he could be this badass that someone like Eccleston or McCoy delivers on. He's too childish to make it happen! But Matt Smith is a stunning actor and if a villain you want a villain you get.
12th: Capaldi is Malcolm and he's Grumpy Scots Doctor. Plus he goes quite evil in Four Doctors so yes I'll buy this.
13th: Dull as dish water and no, she's a set of accents and isms to give her any depth which she hasn't got. I havent seen Whittaker's work to know what else she plays.
So for me all of them are dark or are played by actors who can play villains, except 5, 11 and 13 don't convince me. In 5 and 11s case it's not the actor though. In 13s case, hippy happy rainbow dust Doctor is just poor all around.
So yeah I agree with Uncle Terrance. His theory holds true if you look at each Doctor with only Davidson being a clear exception. And I know Smith fans can argue the toss about him so... Jodie shows us that her Doctor doesn't fit.
Hearing Sylvester McCoy call himself the oncoming storm is bliss
Like everything RTD wrote it was stolen from better writers who wrote for McCoy in the wilderness years. Also its the Draconians that called him that. Daleks don't have a vocabulary complex enough to say the words "oncoming storm"
Agreed!
@@DarthAzabrush Davies and Moffat are hacks galore. Plus everything they did (and that worm Chibnall) screams "NOTICE ME!!" at Michael Grade....and he always says "NO!" And the former was the one who wrote a full length novel that got adapted to audio five years ago
@@SuperWolsey Chibnall at least has a grounding in the basic laws of the Whoniverse and the power level, genre and tone the show should be. RTD gave us 5 years of nothing but the work of much better men rewritten by a manchild and though Moffat's era had its occasional charms it was pretty high fantasy and deliberately shat on any bits of canon he didn't like.
@@DarthAzabrush RTD and Moff gave us exciting stories that gripped you. Chibnall does not understand Doctor Who or how to write for the Doctor. RTD and Moff continued and expanded upon the foundations that had been laid before. Chibnall has shat all over it.
Holy crap. If the 7th Doctor is angry with you fall on your knees and beg for mercy... although I'm not sure the 7th Doctor would grant it...
Deep respect for Sylvester McCoy's performance, that was impressive.
I'm liking the 7th Doctor more and more.
Don't mess with 7's friends.
Contronted with the Valeyard, an arguably nicer incarnation of the Doctor the Master shat himself and teamed up with Sixie to murder him.
Out of context, you’d think the Doctor was a super villain.
Well the creatures in his universe sort of hates him no?
Not all but mostly the strong ones claiming their own self righteousness and justice.
But man does this villain tone still make The Doctor great!
All contexts tbh
Makes me wonder if Sylvester McCoy would’ve been a good Master
TheBobBrom that’s a really awesome idea
@TheBobBrom I agree with Bad Wolf. This is a badass idea.
This is a prime example (outside of the show) of why Sylvester McCoy's 7th Doctor is one of my favourites, the most alien and ambiguous incarnation, but never to the point where you question his goal to do good...only what he does BASED on said goal, always making for an interesting DW story when that comes into play.
He's still the darkest Doctor in Whostory to date, though you're right, one doesn't doubt his end-goal for good. On the other hand, 7 is very aware that 'good' and 'kind' are two very different things, and nobody can be 100% certain what road he would take to secure that end-goal. There's a reason many people say that if 7 was fighting the Time-War, he'd have resolved it very quickly. If any Doctor would bend the rules in the name of good, no matter how grey it gets, 7 would do it, then tip his hat like the scheming little charmer he is.
Indeed, 7 probably would've saved himself and the rest of the universe so much trouble and bloodshed if he handled the Time War (then again you could say the same for A LOT of struggles the Doctor faces in the modern series if it was 7 handling things).
I would love it if we had another Doctor like him on the show someday (especially if Sylvester never ends up returning in a multi-Doctor story).
Indeed. Everyone, even his allies, were pawns in the great universal chess-game. While 8,9,10,11 and even 12 are often guilty of pandering to their human counter-part, 7 was forcing his to conquer her fears and become a weapon, almost at risk of their friendship. Sure, he meant well, but he was on a mission. He also sought out evil during his tenure - never stumbling into it or being dragged into it. He was seeking out threats and burying them without remorse. This is the type of Doctor the time-war needed (assuming you needed another way to conquer it without, say, becoming a War-Doctor).
Exactly, a proactive chess-master, it was quite refreshing to have stories where the Doctor only had to worry about problems like rogue elements interfering with his plans (e.g not expecting to deal with TWO factions of Daleks...that could also go up stairs in "Remembrance of the Daleks"), or those closest to him (understandably) turning away from him due to his manipulations (e.g when he secretly tests Ace to see if she could become a Time Lord in Big Finish's "Lost Stories" range).
Outside the show he is one of the best, darkest and most magical doctors.
-Damaged Goods
-A Death in the Family
-Master
Honestly, 7 is bordering on villain at times. The Manipulator. Times Champion. The Time Lord Victorious. The Oncoming Storm. Fear him indeed...
The Sandman. 🤣🤣
The Valeyard
Remember: This man used to do comedy back in the day.
This just proves how freaking fantastic he is at acting with such a fine range of performances!
@@rudenotginger123 Exactly. Such a dark Doctor.
@@rudenotginger123 Dude has more RSC credits than pretenders like Tennant can hope for if they live to be 100.
@@DarthAzabrush pretenders like you are not wanted in the fandom. Not only has Tennant done Big Finish, he's done Big Finish WITH Classic Doctors, all of whom have expressed what a joy he was to work with - even the famously difficult Tom Baker.
@@Althalus2010 Its amazing what you can contractually oblige someone to do and a good actor can sell it very well. Then again even Sophie Aldred couldn't hide how much it hurt to have to praise the twat who ruined her character at the end of the Audiobook of "At Childhood's End"
"I'm the Doctor. I take care of my friends.." dang.
God when he said "Fear Me" that gives me chills.
Can you imagine what the 7th Doctor would have done if he was in the Time War?
He would have won.
If the 7th Doctor was in the Time War he'd have won, he'd have destroyed about half of space and time as collateral, but he'd have won
Here's what would have happened. The Doctor would have acted like it wasn't a major issue, heading off on some seemingly unrelated task and making jokes or talking about different things, keeping schemes and masterplans close to his chest. He would have then made so many plans (which had plans (which had backup plans (which had other plans))) that when he'd finally, randomly, seem to 'address' the Time War, it'd be during a nice nonchalant stroll with the primary antagonist to tell them just how utterly fucked that antagonist is (if any). If there was none, 2/3'rds of the way in there would be a moment like his Pandorica Speech (UA-cam it).
This incident would be handled over a 2 or 3 part episode at maximum, just like Rememberance of the Daleks, where he waltzed into old-school London with a plan that would decimate his old time foe whilst simultaneously acting like this was all just by chance/accident and that he hadn't planned anything at all.
His companions would be somewhat annoyed that the Doctor, yet again, has used his pawns in another game of cosmic chess so well. Cue end-credits while Ace and 7th head off for a cup of tea and watch the smoking ruins of the Galaxy he has saved for the umpteenth time.
The moment would have been used in moments
Didn’t he basically start it by using the Hand of Omega on Skaro?
0:50 he laughed , he actually laughed as they were taking their last breaths ...
The Daleks when they hear the Doctor is interfering in their plans
Dalek 1: So what do we do
Dalek 2: Go ahead as normal. If he stops us we can beg for mercy. He'll just give us a slap on the wrist and let us go
Dalek 1: What if its his seventh incarnation
Dalek 2: RUN!
@Malk Von Batshit THIS.. this is one of my many reasons why I hate Journey's End. The Doctor is a fucking puppy dog, he doesn't only do nothing, he scolds the people with the balls to act. Jack has a warp star, what no. Meta Doctor tries to kill Davros and stop the reality bomb, NO DON'T! The meta Doctor wipes out the race that came two seconds away from wiping out all life. HE'S TOO DANGEROUS TO BE LEFT ALIVE. Jesus Doctor, get your priorities straight.
@Malk Von Batshit Ah yes, not wanting to commit genocide clearly makes you a wimp. Just because a fictional character is a better person than you is no reason to get mad
@Malk Von Batshit I would disagree but whatever
@@tribesman8424 I would just like to say sales are free game. But he usually gives a warning, a last chance
@@cameroncaws8506 Before time war doctor would glady kill daleks. But after time war since doctor killed so many he cant do it easily, only if last resort. Besides tenth was the most human doctor, even nine couldnt do it in first season final.
"oh i've killed people...what's worse i got clever... i manipulated people into taking their own...."
A shit Doctor impersonator tries to crap on a better Doctor than he's fit to lick the boots of. Even his own wife rates McCoy over both him and her father.
@@DarthAzabrush Which one are you talking about?
@@RC-rn3jm Tennant, worst Doctor in history.
@@DarthAzabrush dude, grow up.
@@keelanbarron928 Hell that's more mature than Time Tot Ten ever was.
Someone jokingly asked if antagonists "burst into flames" when 7 talks to them. Ironically, it's almost true. Let's check the tapes and see how various TV antagonists fared after encountering the 7th Doctor (or after hearing one of his speeches). These are just the direct (or indirect) outcomes related to the Doctor specifically. For example, the Chief Clown was handled by Ace, so he's not mentioned. If you want to avoid TV spoilers, do not click "read more".
S24: *Kane* - convinced of his own futility, thus melted himself to death.
S24: *Gavrok* - agreed to a temporary truce... and eventually blew himself up.
S24: *Kroagnon* - provoked into a trap by 7, then blown up by a suicidal dynamite blast.
-
S25: *Davros* - coaxed into genocide (destruction of Skaro).
S25: *Supreme Dalek* - coaxed into suicide.
S25: *Cyber Fleet* - tricked into self-destruction, just like Skaro and the Dalek Mothership.
S25: *Helen-A* - dead pet, depression, and a toppled govornment within one night (not dead).
S25: *Kandy Man* - drowned and melted after running from 7 + Ace.
S25: *The Gods of Ragnarok* - entertained to death, resulting in the first ever "cool guys don't look at explosions" moment.
-
S26: *Light* - coaxed into suicide, dissipating into pure energy and used as fuel.
S26: *Fenric* - killed by his own henchman at 7's behest.
S26: *Ancient One* - convinced of its own futility, thus killing itself and its proverbial 'boss' (Fenric).
S26: *Morgaine* - an arthurian sorceress of legend... goes to UNIT prison (not dead).
S26: *The Destroyer* - killed by the BRIG, though 7 did provide the inspiration needed for Silver Bullets.
S26: *The Master* - left to his half-cat fate after a round of fisticuffs, and later executed by the Daleks.
-
Most stories have an impressive body count throughout 7's tenure. For example, barely anyone survives Curse of Fenric, which involves the near-total wipeout of British and Russian WW2 regiments (and numerous civilians). Conversely, S25 and S26 focuses on the subtle manipulation of Ace - teaching her to face her fears (against her will). If the show wasn't cancelled, Ace would have agreed to become a Time Lady in S27 (but on very bad terms with 7 due to the constant manipulation).
This is just something to chew on if you genuinely believe the darkness wasn't present during the TV run. It's not as blatantly dark compared to the comics, novels, or Big Finish, but there are plenty of moments where his dark schemes are laid bare on-screen.
Curse of Fenric is (arguably) the best and most obvious example, and it gets bonus points for being 100 minutes of pure Whovian horror.
I love how you put the horror on display as not as blatant as other stories, because that's the hook for me with 7. It's a subtle thing. And I didn't know Whovian Horror was the way to describe Horror that is Doctor Who writing at its best. Like the Brain of Morbius, for instance.
In any case, part of what makes this subtle darker side of the Doctor is purely because he can't stand to see the suffering of others and the tormentors get off scott-free. He is the boogeyman of the bad guys with no compunctions in making them suffer. I dunno about you, but I'd sleep better at night knowing that someone like the Doctor is going around and giving the murderous creeps what they deserve.
Just because he isn't human doesn't mean the things we value aren't universal and that "higher" beings like him don't care about Earthly things. That's why he keeps companions along, to spot him.
@@nickthepick8043Indeed. For example, many people can't stomach stories like Happiness Patrol, but it's got so many delicious layers of darkness underneat, and a hint of creepiness. Personally, I love the Kandy Man. Some think it looks stupid, but I love that horrific voice, and how it keeps swapping from rude and petulant child (vs) a polite and mature serial killer.
Ghost Light is pretty much "Doctor Who in the Resident Evil Mansion". It has everything, from the zombie husks in the basement, to stuffed animals taunting Ace, to creepy maids living in the walls, people being turned into soup, and an Alien casually dissecting people to "see how they work".
Curse of Fenric is arguably the best example. The first episode is a slow-burning build up, and each episode afterwards keeps ramping up the pace and the stakes, and that Episode 3 cliffhanger is spine-chilling.
Even stories like Paradise Towers have dark moments shining through the 80's campiness, like the cannibal grannies casually chatting about "people going missing" (with their bones still sitting on the dining table).
One of the reasons I give the 7th Doctor era more credit than others is because they did so much with so little, and the show was also at the height of its "Children's TV" phase, yet you'll see scenes of people melting or being turned into goop, and all kinds of horrific things that really question the age rating.
I believe in Paradise Towers he manipulates a couple of guards into letting him go. Then in The Happiness Patrol he uses reverse psychology on another couple of guards in order to prevent them from shooting him. In Battlefield he appears to hypnotise the townsfolk into believing they wanted to leave when moment's ago they were protesting about being evacuated. Even Lady Peinforte wasn't safe from his machinations, he dared her to reveal all of his secrets knowing full well the Cybermen didn't give a shit about them & he knew she & Nemesis were one & that she was doomed anyway.
@@Hodaris_DarlinAye. I love how 7 is giving Lady Painforte the "Oh god, please don't spill the beans" face, but then, immediately flips it into a jaunty "Whatever, imma work with the Cybermen", and basically tips her over the edge into pure screaming insanity.
The scene with the snipers in Happiness Patrol is one of my favourites. He doesn't hyponitize - he merely plays into how the sniper was so used to killing people from afar, that he goads him into killing someone up close while looking into their eyes, and the sniper just can't do it -- and you can clearly hear 7's anger during the whole thing.
@@Hodaris_DarlinYeah he basically tricks the Deputy Chief into letting him out by pretending to flick through the rule book and making up rules that the Caretakers in the room believed
When they strrrrrrrrrrretch you on the neutron rack
I am Lord Prrrrrrrrresident of Gallifrrrrrrrrrrey
rrrrrrrrrred
@@LairOfLair so rrrrrrrrred... rrrrrrrrrrred... rrrrrrrrrrrred...
The delivery of that line is so beautiful, isn't it? Heck, the whole speech is beautiful. This is one of the many reasons why this incarnation and Sylvester are my favourite. He can do so much with his voice. He doesn't need to brandish a sonic or announce his every move.
I actually wish the 7th Doctor could encounter Derek Jacobi's Master since they are similar, being manipulators and chess players. The only difference being the Doctor does it for what he deems to be the good of the universe and his friends while Jacobi's Master does it for his own amusement.
Yep.
My God I would chop my arm of for that 2 master chess players I don’t know who would win honestly
People overlook McCoy and cast him as the last Doctor of the Classic era, when he was so much more. McCoy has acted arguably one of the most interesting incarnations of the character, with the exception of his first season, McCoy had a solid era that could rival even Baker’s at times. The trickster. If he had proceeded in his run, he would be most likely in people’s top five, and not near the bottom like he is on most people’s rankings.
It reminds me of Remembrance of the Daleks when he gets that Dalek to kill itself.
Well, it's 7's way of saying "Checkmate". Talking a Supreme Dalek into killing itself, tricking Davros into self-genocide, getting two antagonists to kill eachother in Curse of Fenric, stopping Morgaine with a speech when she's about to unleash nuclear weapons, tricking the Cybermen, the way he disarms the sniper in Happiness Patrol with his mind-games... The chess-board is his playground.
RopeDrink my god that last sentence is 7th’s slogan.
“I am The Doctor...And I take Care of My Friends...”
One of the many reasons why I am in love with the doctor as a character. He is such a joy to be around and such a lovely person when he/she is with his/her friends.... But if someone hurts or puts those friends in danger the doctor doesn't just punish them oh no.... The doctor tears their mind, body and soul to shreds. That is love. And that is power
Nothing is scarier than the rage of a good man
I'd argue the Seventh Doctor was anything but a 'good man'. Maybe one of the only Classic Doctors that wasn't. If anything, he was a bad man trying to do good in spite of himself.
@@kkhohoho1 He's a sly, manipulative and scheming chess-master on a mission to bury evil. Everything he has done has been for the greater good, and knowing the difference between 'good' and 'kind' does not make you unkind or bad. He has had to do quite a lot of unkind things for the sake of good, whereas doing the kind thing for the sake of it can have bad results. I feel people are way too soft about the Doctor's character -- this is a space-and-time traveling alien with massive influence over the galaxy who is often charged with making major decisions. This should not always end in family-friendly-happy-fun-times.
There are people who look at versions like 7 and see that as being 'cruel', and those who appreciate the fact that being a Doctor would (and should) give rise to a LOT, LOT, LOT of moral-grey that should make you think. 7th's incarnation was part of the Cartmel Masterplan to bring back some of that darkness and mystery, and it's done very well. If you doubt his end-game goal for good then you need to read/watch more of him.
@@RopeDrink I agree with you - however, as the Doctor really is a space-and-time travelling being, he actually has the opportunity to "leave" this kind of dark good doing to one or two incarnations.
The 7th Doctor is not a good man
@@RopeDrink he also becomes very dark in some scenes, as he is generally more whimsical. (i have not seen much of big finish) however, from the show, i see a man who is silly and whimsical but has a hatred for evil and will do anything to to stop it.
I can't even imagine how awesome it would have been if this were an actual episode. The 7th Doctor is a masterpiece.
Holy crap, that "Fear Me" was out of this world
So, that's why 10's afraid of 7...
Were?
@@victormatos9935 it's a joke. The joke usually goes that 10 is afraid of 7 because 7 ate 9 (7 8 9)
@@benstokes3852 it’s normally 6 but ok
How would it work as six? Why was 9 scared? Because six seven eight?
I mean it doesn't matter which number is afraid so long as it isn't 7, 8 or 9.
13: leave this planet now, or I’ll stop you!
Bad guy: no
7: Hello.
Bad guy: OK BYE!!!
He wouldn't even say hello - he'd look at the villain and tip his hat politely in menacing silence with a cheeky smile.
11 channelled his 7 and reminded all of them what he can do, if push really comes to shove.
Found you
@@NFreundYeah in his first story, 11 tells those aliens, "I'm The Doctor. Look me up. Basically run." & they hightail it outta there at warp speed. 😂
The 7th Doctor was my first foray into classic Who and Remembrance of the Daleks has stuck with me as my favorite from the 26 years of classic Who. The Big Finish audios have probably
cemented McCoy as the best Doctor. This speech is utterly incredible, he really needs more plaudits for his work.
As an 80's child, the first bit of Doctor Who I ever saw in my life was the Remembrance "stairs" cliffhanger on TV when growing up. I vividly remember seeing that - and how it was promoted during adverts, prepping people for Ep2. It is one of the first scenes that come to my mind whenever the Doctor, Companions, Daleks, or the show in general is raised in discussions.
@@RopeDrinkThe first Dalek to ever climb stairs. I remember it being scary for the simple fact that climbing stairs was no longer the safe place to go to escape the Daleks.
What i think makes seven so interesting is how comfortable he is with his own dark side.
Most doctors tend to question their morals when they're forced to make certain decisions that go against their own ethic. Hell, even the war doctor still felt uneasy about ending the time war, despite being specially created for it.
Seven? He doesn't necessarily enjoy doing this sort of stuff, but also doesn't bother much doing it. He's cold, calculating and focused on winning no matter the cost. And if people have to die in order to achieve it, so be it.
One of the greatest Doctor Who Speeches. Such fury and anger. A commanding voice as he lists his titles. So perfect.
7 IS The Doctor that River Song was always talking about when she kept saying, you're still not HIM yet. Also, 7 is about the only Doctor with absolute command of the TARDIS. The other Doctors just seem to wind up wherever the TARDIS takes them, while 7 ALWAYS gets to where & when HE wants to be. I mean, look at his precise time & space hopping in Silver Nemesis, back & forth, round & round...
She hates wizards. They always turn out to be 'him'. Meanwhile, 7th Doctor is running around 'Battlefield' acting as Merlin.
If only the BBC had the courage to put content like this is in now.
On Britbox they have a warning that says 'Classic Sci-fi may be too scary and unsuitable for younger audiences' or smthing like that, which makes me laugh. Yeah ones now couldnt' handle 7, meanwhile my 8 year old self was hoarding every video we had of this Doctor because I loved how he wasn't the happy-go-lucky Doctor (5, 10, and 11) that my older sister liked
@@charleenlangley1901 They absolutely could, though. Those notices are there because of idiot parents, children still love scary/dark stuff.
This right here is why seven is My Doctor
*Such an underrated era of Dr. Who, thank you BF for giving us such excellent stories...*
I wish we got to see the depths of the Seventh Doctor's darkness on screen
We have a few times. "Call it off or I. WILL. DECAPITATE. YOU!" (Battlefield). His speech to Morgaine is also quite powerful, explaining the horror of the nuclear weapons she's threatening to use in very nasty detail. Then you have the infamous soul-crushing scene of 7 and Ace in Curse of Fenric where he butchers her trust and faith by demeaning her in front of the antagonist. You also get his disarming mind-game in Happiness Patrol where he coaxes a would-be murderer with his 'why don't you do it then?' mind-phuckery speech. Or how he coaxes Ace to face her fears in Ghostlight.
Sure, it's not as blatant as this "*FEAR ME*" speech where he casually explains exactly why said antagonist should crap their pants, but he has been dark on-screen quite a lot, which is why he's my Doctor. You know he means well and you know his goal is to save the day, but he's the one who will surprise you with exactly how he accomplishes that goal compared to other incarnations.
@@RopeDrink That's awesome. I absolutely love him and I hadn't thought much about why. I do love how he understands emotions and manipulates those for dark reasons. But he is difficult to trust, and for me it's all other Doctors that put him into better perspective, I trust him only because I trust them. But otherwise I hadn't worked out why else I love him above almost all versions, but reading your comment references sheds light that he's alien and I could never feel I understand him, an amazing feeling. You have elevated my love for the Seventh Doctor. Thank you
@@RopeDrink I'd have imagined you would have gone with the classic remembrance of the daleks, his outward persona in the episode may be less frightening, but in a way that is more scary given the things he does on that episode, coldly and even mockingly.
I dunno. In Remembrance he did talk Davros into blowing up Skaro, then practically laughed in his face as Davros was begging for his life. Then, he casually walked up to the Dalek Supreme and talked it into killing itself.
@@scottishjedi1522Exactly. It's easy to forget that 7 goaded Davros into near genocide, then encouraged suicide immediately after. Sure, it was Davros and the Daleks, but hey, we're talking about the Doctor. Even 10 tried to save Davros (without any encouragement), but when Davros was literally pleading for mercy from 7, he was like "Nah, go suck an egg" and left him to his fate.
The truth is, Big Finish will definitely be slightly darker than the TV show (because it gets to brush up on external media that dove into the Cartmel Masterplan and the much darker novels). However, even during the TV run, 7 talked most villains into killing themselves (or each other), showed barely any mercy whatsoever, and manipulated the piss out of his own companion along the way.
He wasn't uncaring - but rather, he was on a preemptive mission and intended to win no matter what, seeking out god-level threats to stick his foot on their throat.
This is what happens when the 7th doctor doesn't get his unlimited rice pudding.
This is the same incarnation of the doctor that said the phrase "UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING!"
I mean, sure, but to be fair, that was also while he was manipulating Davros into destroying both himself and Skaro. So, like, in terms of his actions it's not that far off.
Don’t mess around with Seven!
Me:Holy crap doctor thats just dark...my god....
Seven would have one the time war in minutes
The Time War would have been at most a three part episode.
By the rules of the universe set up in the Classic Series the Time War is impossible. Its possible for a Temporal Power (not a lesser race like the Daleks) to try to take on the Time Lords but they won't because of the quantum shielding bound to its surface. Fire on Gallifrey you risk damaging the shielding and ending time as we know it forever.
@@DarthAzabrush the daleks advance rapidly and there true power hasn't been fully shown in the classic series during their latest form
@@alisonmulholland7221 No they don't, they are stagnant, literally every Classic Story explains this with no ambiguity. They do not innovate unless Davros is around and even then old Dave isn't clever enough to take on Techno Gods Billions of years more advanced than him and half of his creations inevitably try to kill him for changing the colour of their spacking cases.
@@DarthAzabrush when is it said that there technological ability has been stagnant in particular?
The brilliant Sylvester acting and that fantastic music makes this scene P E R F E C T
Holy shit McCoy's proformance here is God tier
"I'M STILL HERE"
I love it when Sylvester is like this bone chilling, such fun.
I wish more people got to see this scene on the show.
Sylvestor mcoy yep still got it.
I really think people underestimate the 7th Doctor well ladies and gentlemen give this a listen to and think again.
I got clever, manipulate people to take lives for me..
1:11
It's like he's possessed by a demon...
If 7 was the war doctor, then the time war would have been over in seconds.
Just beautiful, the doctor becomes extra amazing when he goes dark.
Those rolling r's though-
I should be making a comment on how scary he is right
This reminds me of the Death Comes to Time series, which was wierd, but had a few baddass moments. One of which is the following:
"You can't interfere with the Course of Time!"
"I *AM* the Course of Time! I am a God of the Fourth." (Using an old name for Time Lords here.) The series was notable for suggesting that Time Lords had ludicrous powers which they refused to use, and the villain was a rogue Time Lord masquerading as a "Regular" Alien conquer to destroy the Timelords without using such powers, so that when they were gone, he and he alone would have Godlike control of the Timeline. Essentially becoming Last of the Time Lords in an era before New Who. It was quite interesting. Fairly fanficy, and has since been declared non-canon even with the famously fuzzy canon of Doctor Who.
1:11 - The Seventh Doctor's Pandorica speech.
And sometimes.. Only sometimes, I am your worst nightmare..
Jesus Christ! I think a trip with the 8th Doctor will be less scary then what I just listened.
A trip with 8 is basically a pretty chill LSD trip complete with giant talking caterpillars. A trip with 7 is a trip into Hell, you either survive and become a better person (Ace and Benny) or run away screaming into the void (Raine, Hex, Mel)
Someone hasn't listened to Scherzo yet
Who's here after "Boom" called back to this?
I really want an audio with The Seventh Doctor meeting The War Master. The scariest Doctor and the scariest Master.
Yes, I know it wouldn't make sense timeline-wise, but Big Finish have gotten away with crazier things in their Time War audios.
Who else is here after Boom? "I am a complex space-time event."
Gatwa is utterly unworthy to tie 7/McCoy's shoelaces!
Imagine if the video started at 0:44
The way he said "Fear me" was...
Terrifying
Sounds like he takes care of his enemies as well.
God knows what 7 would've done for Clara
Dear god, do not put that scary thought in my head...
Imagine what 7 would do if Missy gave him the cyber army...
@@Prince__Teclishe would say no in a scary way.
*_fear me..._*
One other thing I love about this it confirms the Doctor is NOT a human being ;-) .
There is a reason why 7 is in my top 5 favourite incarnations of The Doctor.
I'm Time Lord McSuperlfy
I was listening to big finish called Master. 7th doctor is just downright creepy throughout.
*Gordon Ramsay:* "I'm gonna put the fear of god into these apprentices."
*Seven:* "Hold my bowl of unlimited RRRRRICE pudding"
If there is a villainous role that Sylvester McCoy has played, let me know. He sounds like a villain who would send chills down a hero’s spine.
2020 The Owners. Also manipulative.
@@ivoryringThanks.
Hard to imagine the thirteenth doctor being this intimidating
Exactly what I was thinking. Probably have talked the giant spiders into suicide or something.
@@algernonilfracombe
She's too cuddly
To be honest I had that same view of McCoy in the TV series (not so much the audio). Don't get me wrong he's good at being manipulative and he does being cold very well e.g. Fenric but he was never able to seem physically intimidating, like that one bit in Ghostlight were he threatens Light with his hand outstretched.
@@Ben-vf5gk
So are you suggesting that Jodie could pull this off?
@@meris8486 Ehh. Maybe if she was written this way. She kinda reminds me of McCoy in his first series, a light, funny quirkier version to counter the perceived harshness of their last incarnation.
It somehow makes it worse that he doesn't do it himself but that he manipulates someone else to - and then there's the whole terrifying speech, which ... damn
this is one of the reasons why he is my favourite
His speech... The darkness... That is why he is my favourite. Sylvester McCoy IS the Doctor.
...holy shit, Doc.
Don’t ever make 7 angry you will regret it
It’s those little guys you have to worry about the most!
"Fear me"
The way he says it too, I get like Vietnam style flashbacks of the 7th doctor being silly and shit lol... So scary to think such a fun doctor has such a dark interior I mean all doctors besides the 5th below do but Mccoy's is just... Whoa
He called himself "The Sandman" and "Your worst nightmare" . Wow.
That voice.... dang
Sometimes when I watch things like this, I think the doctor always knew in some way that they were not just a timelord, but something far older.
Yeah, just a tip: don't try to make sense of 13th era with the other ones, you wont be able to, cause chibbs doesnt give a fuck about any other era or doctor.
@@FelipeA81 "Stop! Do you hear me, stop! You've brought your fight into real time, take your war, your cruel, senseless Time War, and leave!"
-The Eighth Doctor, The Sontaran Ordeal by Andrew Smith (2016)
Ironically, a deleted scene from Remembrance of the Daleks was going to have Seventh Doctor lightly imply that he was god -- and it was (unsurprisingly) cut from the episode.
Davros: "You FLATTER yourself, Doctor. In the end, you are merely another TIME LORD!"
Seventh: "Oh, Davros. I am FAR more than JUST another Time Lord."
1:02 I can imagine right after the Doctor’s response, it is all part of a commercial for Halloween Horror Nights. I can already imagine it and hear it playing my head.
PITY ME!!!
fear me…….
Announcer: Face off against the wrath of the Doctor at Universal Orlando’s Halloween Horror Nights, Florida’s most scariest Halloween event. Try to survive over 10 terrifying mazes based off hits Doctor Who, Stranger Things, Halloween 4, and AMC’s The Walking Dead! Florida residents save up 20% of tickets and hotel admissions. Grab a Coke Zero to refresh your tastebuds and be able to win a free ticket, if you are able to survive. Tickets are available on the Universal website. Hurry, the Doctor is coming, and he isn’t so forgiving to his victims.
*cue monsters screams of horror at end*
Love this clip. But who was the Doctor's friend? Who was 7 protecting?
Nick Blog he was protecting his companions.
Ace and hex
So do the people he's talking to burst into flames or something??
Let's check the tapes and see what various villains did after 7's speeches during the TV run:
Kane - melted himself to death.
Light - dissipated into pure energy and became fuel for a ship.
Fenric - killed by his own henchman (at 7's behest).
Ancient One - convinced of its own futility, thus killing itself and its proverbial 'boss' (Fenric).
Gavrok - agreed to a temporary truce... and eventually blew himself up.
Davros - destroyed Skaro.
Supreme Dalek - self-destructed.
Kroagnon - blown up by Pex via a suicidal dynamite blast.
Helen-A - dead pet, depression, and a toppled govornment within one night (not dead).
Kandy Man - drowned and melted after running from 7 + Ace.
Morgaine - an arthurian sorceress of legend... goes to UNIT prison (not dead).
The Destroyer - killed by the BRIG (though 7 provided the inspiration needed for Silver Bullets).
The Master - left to his half-cat fate after a round of fisticuffs, and later executed by the Daleks.
The Gods of Ragnarok - were entertained to death, resulting in the first ever "cool guys don't look at explosions".
Those are just TV examples off the top of my head. In short, people don't usually 'burst into flames'. It's usually MUCH worse than that.
I would say pants to be browned but I think we're past that point.
It's so bizarre to have the new era treat the War Doctor like he was so bad he had to be forgotten and didn't have the title of The Doctor anymore, when the Doctor themselves are conceivably just as bad.
Moffat went to extreme lengths to imply that the Doctor would never do these things. When 7 could've easily been the War Doctor
Himself
@@tardistime6857 pretty sure it's Themselves* nowadays. But thanks for playing.
@@JamieSwitzerdidn’t the 10th and 11th Doctors realise they were wrong about War, and acknowledge that all of them would’ve done the same in his position (which they prove by joining him at the big red button)?
@@EditedAF987 Yep
Mom please pick me up I'm scared
He could make Azula from Avatar shudder in fear
Not hard. Azula is a joke.
The Valeyard risen
Space Glasgow
Fear the wrath of a kind man
If he called himself "The Time Lord Victorious" I would hide under the bed. I'm realizing the Sixth Doctor acted all 6-like because he didn't like how he was treated when he was the 5th Doctor, but he still cared. And the 7th Doctor still cared but wanted to find a different way to get things done that he couldn't do as 6, even if it meant being a total chessmaster or scaring the crap out of people.
Asdark as his doctor was he was one of my faves
Sylvester McCoy already played the Dark "Sorcerer" incarnation of the Doctor on screen!
🤔
OMG! I am nervously laughing now
HOLY. SHIT.
he kinda soounds like palpatine.....
The 7th doctor loves killing, destroys 400 daleks and more on skaro, talked a supreme into committing suicide, blowing up a cyber fleet, makes daleks kill there own kind. Only thing I have seen
He doesn't "love" killing. He's the Doctor that doesn't shy away from the darker solution when he feels it's necessary.
wait..how did Seven know the nicknames "Oncoming Storm" and "Destroyer of Worlds" ? those came with 10 didn't they? ...oh no...I see, a novel.
It's kinda timey wimey. War got the name The Oncoming Storm and 10 was called The Destroyer of Worlds. But 7 heard these names referring to him before he got them, sort of like 1 in Twice Upon a Time hearing all his title including the doctor of war.
The traveler from beyond time. He doesn't know how right he is.