Here's Why You Should Run Your Battery Low On An Electric Car Road Trip
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 кві 2023
- Send your questions! guide@outofspecstudios.com
Find all of our Amazon must-haves here:
www.amazon.com/shop/influence...
Please consider supporting our channel through Patreon:
/ outofspec
For more behind the scenes content:
Twitter: @Out_of_Spec
Max's Twitter: @MaxPatten
#ev #battery #charging - Авто та транспорт
Future video idea: go on a road trip with 2 exact same EVs, on one don't go lower than 25%, on the other around 10%. Let's see how much of time difference it is for the entire road trip.
I agree. I think you should do this test. Tesla Supercharging, since it is the only reliable system currently. Have one going for distance and the other going for the speed of the charge. Both on the same route and conditions. It needs to be a long road trip with multiple stops. These kind of stats would get people to realize road tripping is possible.
This sounds awesome! Maybe do like 500-600 miles so there are several stops. Definitely the kind of crazy thing that only OOS would do 😉😂
A better test is showing how drastic energy use on battery and speed to drive at. 85 mph cruising is significantly worse on energy use than 75 mph cruising. Understanding that difference is more important in road tripping, I think.
Agreed! There’s a reason the federal government stepped in during the Oil Embargo in the 70’s and set the limit to 55. It wasn’t to save lives…it was to reduce the consumption of fuel…Air resistance at speeds exceeding 45 or so affects efficiency more than anything else. Great idea. Wondering if a long trip at 60 would actually save time over driving at 75 or more during a long trip as less “top-offs” would be necessary.
I agree with Azimuth and Allen. The point I am making is that more stops is more time. I saw a recent UA-cam video and they did 1200 miles and all the stops added up to 4 additional hours. That is fine, but what if one car stretched it out to fewer stops and the other one did more stops? Which one would take less time? It would have to be the same speced cars on the same route to verify the drive. I think the speed is not as important as even when the cars start to determine that you cannot make the next planned stop, with enough battery charge, they tell you to slow down to conserve energy. Some people love road trips, but do not like stops since they just want to get there as fast as possible. I am one who enjoys stops along the way on any trip to be able to stretch my legs.
I’d me totally comfortable doing this in my local charging area. However on a road trip not knowing the state of the chargers I would be a little more hesitant
non-tesla chargers* unfortunately
This should be mandatory viewing for VW, MBenz, and Hyundai drivers, who, with their EA ‘free’ plans, largely seem to feel they’re leaving money on the table by not squatting at EA stations until their SOC hits 100%. And, when confronted about this, they turn indignant and threaten to call 9-1-1, as an ID.4 Karen did recently.
I’m an Ioniq 5 owner and have never charged to 100% at EA but I have seen some EV 6 owners do that.
I come from an aviation background. We are trained to plan for a certain fuel reserve to have at arrival to mitigate risk (mostly for wx / unscheduled airport closures). I do the same thing with my Tesla and plan for ~15% at arrival. Some people seem to like the challenge / adrenalin high of arriving with the lowest SOC; I find the practice a bit odd - it's not worth the drama.
I have always liked the example for charging rates of the battery pack being like a trash bag, because like a trash bag, when it is empty, it is easy to start filling it and as the bag gets full, it becomes harder and harder to get more stuff into the bag, Most people can relate to how that works.
Yeah, especially armloads of dry leaves
As a Taycan owner I always target 10% arrivals and have done a few 1% arrivals. The GOM is very accurate in my experience with over 50k miles. I charge to generally
My first road trip I stayed around 20%. My next two trips I try to get below 10% and saved so much time. I have a Model 3 and if the nav wants me to charge for more than 25 minutes I look to see if it is skipping a charger. If it is then I manually add the charger and I charge just enough for it to say I will arrive at 10% and I go. Saves a lot of time.
Very interesting discussion, and timely. Just took my Ioniq 5 AWD Limited down to 8% and it says I have 24 miles of range. What is strange I have been averaging around 4 miles per kwh lately so that would equate to about 24.78 miles, so close enough. What I found odd is that the SOC on the Car Scanner app says 8.5% but the SOC BMS says 12.5% which is in line with the high buffer level you talk about, and that would under recent driving conditions yield 93675kwh or about 38.7 miles of range. What is odd is the car scanner app says the remaining energy is only 5.67 kwh, I wonder why it shows that low a level.
I unplug when my car shows that I will be at the next charger with 10%. But since I drive 10-15 mph over the speed limit I usually get to the charger with 2-5%. If for some reason I use too much energy and my estimated arrival percentage drop down to 1% , I slow down. Works for me 🤷🏻
As a Tesla owner I agree with going low on the road for optimum charging but I would not have the same confidence in a CCS vehicle because of their inherent issues with reliability of the chargers (re: 10 chargers available/5 working but at 50kW). You could waste much more time waiting for an available charger if you don't have the battery percentage to make it to the the next available charger.
Good in theory. The reality is though that chargers are broken left and right or have long queues on the remaining working stalls. IF you arrive low on energy you can't divert or try the next charger as it'll be out of range.
To be more clear and educate people, you should explain that the charging curve is programmed a certain way because of the physics and chemistry of lithium ion cells. The BMS dictates charge speed, and the BMS operates based on its programming.
I mention battery chemistry but we're not a science channel nor a break down of car electronics. People don't need to know what a BMS is to get the basic concept.
@@iMaxPatten ok. Still, I think most people understand the concept of programming. Up to you.
@barryw9473 I’ll specify that this is BMS controlled in the video but it makes no difference! I like the way I described it as same as phone or laptop. Those also have firmware controlled batteries and work the same. The less technical jargon I can put in these videos the better!
I use my Mini Cooper SE electric for around-town driving only and often go until I'm around 10-15% before charging in my garage. Overnight, it easily fills to 100% and I don't restrict this. In fact, I believe Mini encourages a 100% charge all the time, partly due to the lower range of the SE (around 114 miles). (By the way, why doesn't anybody every mention the Mini anymore? They're still around and damn good little EVs.)
This was a great video and good information on the battery and charging. when I get my tesla I will probably be like you and riding it down to 7-10%, bc like on cellphones it charges fast when at smaller percentages and like you said it charges (Electric vehicles) faster from 10-80%, than from 80-100%.
I agree wtih the idea of maximizing your range by letting your battery get lower. Unfortunately, the state of the CCS network puts way too much risk of getting stranded, especially where the network is still very thin. Just today, I found two dead 350kw chargers at two separate stations a few miles apart. Not a good warm feeling with an impending EV road trip.
Having driven my Ioniq 5 back and forth across the US twice, I really don’t see the value of slowing down or in my car running to the bottom of the pack. I mostly drive 80mph. My stops happen every 2 and a half to three hours. Most are less than 18 minutes and many are 12 minutes because
I’m not getting down to 10%. The Ioniq 5 still pulls 150 kW clear up past 70%. I have a video showing that if you’re interested. Since I’m doing around 150-180 miles per stop, there is no way I want to charge more than 3 times a day. It’s rare for me to have a total charge time for the day of over an hour, and I end up covering between 400 to 500 miles a day. Road tripping is not about range it’s about both the overall charging speed and the flatness of the curve. If you’re going to road trip, look for a car with both.
I've tried to explain this to people who say that you can't roadtrip an EV. This video explains it really well. Thank you for making this video!
I take mine down between 5 and 10 percent but I know what my options are ahead of time. Do your homework when traveling and there wont be a problem. Tesla's don't have this problem for most of the country in the US but other brands need to just plan ahead so they know their options as they go. 65-75 mph is gonna net you the best range imo.
Maybe talking about charging curves like "Miles per minute rate" would help illuminate this? Even with all the uncertainty depending on driving style and conditions ect ... switching to percentage just adds another step of conversion to the person waiting for the right amount of charge, because they now have to convert percentage into what they think that will add for their style under current conditions. Using a standard of some kind for miles and just letting the drivers adjust "oh it's a bit better than that today".
Those glasses bro. Haha
I know 😎
Max, how often do you plug your car in to charge. In other words do you charge every day or night?
❤❤❤❤ thank u
I’ve only been driving EVs for seven months and I still don’t understand the range anxiety thing. I drive a lot and I routinely took my ICE cars down to ten miles. Now I’m routinely taking my EV down to 4%. In fact 4% is a lot more than ten miles LOL.
I really pushed it once and got home with 0 % and 0 miles. I was very confident by the cars projections, it was winter and I think the car calculated worse efficiency as the drive went on. I do normally like to pull in to a supercharger between 2-7%. I have a Tesla Model Y long range.
There is always a possibility that a whole station can be out of service due to a local power failure. It's good to be able to get to some sort of an alternate charging situation.
If it's CCS, it can be entirely out of service even without a power failure. CCS needs to up its game
I would find it easier to watch if I could see your eyes. It is interesting to note the charging speed at a low state of charge, but I think you downplay the inconvenience of being towed too much. When I had a Nissan Leaf I had to call AAA twice, both in the winter in Maine and it was a bigger deal than you seem to think. Chevy bolt owner now and have never come close to a tow. Like others who have commented, I am perfectly happy to spend a little longer knowing I have a buffer that will get me to the next one, two, or three charging stations.
What about battery temperature?
LFP battery BEVs don't go into 'turtle mode' when low on juice.
Honestly out of spec should know better, this may be true on models that charge supefast but if you're in a bolt, a leaf, an i3 you hit your peak no matter what your state of charge pretty quickly and stay there until you get to 80% or so. The fact they don't give all cars are different disclaimer until almost 10 minutes in is terrible. Having road-tripped an i3 94amph repeatedly I've learned lots of short stops are preferable to stretching it out and having a longer session.
Please do a video explaining why you shouldn’t rely on the available range indicator aka the Guess O’Meter/ GOM and why you should use the % SOC instead.
It’s in the cards!
I'm scarred of dendrites in the battery....
Ok who is this guy with his look at me shades?
For newbies who are not familiar with Kyle's and Tom's charging tests, why not add a graph in your video to show what a charging curve looks like. I think that would be more effective than trying to explain the charging curve in words. Just a thought...
I feel like there should be asterisks on videos like this for Porsche and Audi drivers.
I’m unsure what the asterisk would indicate? As a Taycan owner I always target 10% arrivals and have done a few 1% arrivals. The GOM is very accurate in my experience with over 50k miles. I charge to generally
@@ronb4633 Asterisk because the advice is always the same. Charge to 40%-50% where the curve is fastest. Porsche and Audi owners smile to 80% at no sacrifice in charging speed. Also the Porsche and Audi BSM's is pretty indifferent to the SOC, you will get the same performance and same charge. No need to "reset" it by going deeper or higher. It is always the same. Enjoy your Taycan!
I understand the advantages of DC charging from a low SOC but I don’t mind spending a few more minutes charging. I appreciate a road break. Our Ioniq 5 is usually ready to go before we are. Granted my time isn’t that valuable.
Hey Max, two big exceptions to this rule are Ford's EVs, the Mustang Mach-E and the F-150 Lightning. Both Fords have timed curves that are less dependent on state of charge. They tend to charge the same whether plugged in at 5% or 35%.
Good point! Next time we have one of those vehicles in to test we’ll make a video about them.
I think out of spec low is not good for battery, I think 10% is ok depending how far the next charger is. I think maybe 5 to 10% is doable
Live at the bottom of your pack!!
TFTC
Thanks, Max, this will be a perfect video to share with my friends and family members who might think about buying a battery electric vehicle. And then I can explain to them how batteries that take an hour to charge in real-world conditions just to add perhaps 150 to 200 miles of range, plus a fragile, sparse, and largely unreliable charging network, and then the inevitable nightmare when renters in apartments and others in condos who can't possibly "charge at home" will start flooding that charging network, so "waiting in line" will add up to sitting around for hours before they can even BEGIN to charge their vehicles, will all add up to how utterly ridiculous battery electric vehicles are, for anyone who can't charge at home and who need to travel anywhere more than a hundred miles away or so. This might make for interesting UA-cam videos, but most of the people I know actually need to get to places without spending half the day charging in order to get almost anywhere, and/or get home.
And for all of those who will scream, "I only spend 15 minutes charging," just wait until the lines come. Go spend a few minutes around lunchtime at a Costco gasoline station, and start counting all of the vehicles that come and go -- and then do the math. 500 to 600 cars per hour will likely pass through such a station, so "do the math again" when those kinds of numbers will be joining you at your favorite charging stations. GONE will be any thought of running your battery low, and GONE will be the irritation of people charging up to 100%. EVEN YOU will be charging up to 100% if you need to do it, when EVERY trip to a charger will mean waiting in line for hours.
Oh, I'm all for being responsible with our environment, but "battery electric vehicles" will not scale up when governments starts forcing mainstream vehicle owners into them. Nobody is going to have the money to build the infrastructure that will be needed to charge millions of vehicles every day -- without massive inconvenience to all. And meanwhile, it will be "the western world" that will be "going electric" -- North America and Europe might make up around one-quarter of this planet's population. Asia alone makes up more than half of that population, and yes, you should expect most of the rest of the world to be burning fossil fuels while you sit in your vehicle, waiting to get to a charger, so you can use electricity that's still generated around 50% by burning fossil fuels, yourself. But that's the near-term future with battery electric vehicles. Yes, people will walk into that willingly right now, but I'll be advising others to use information like that presented in this video to truly understand the inconveniences and compromises involved. Perhaps in another twenty or thirty or fifty years, the whole planet will truly cut back on burning fossil fuels -- if humanity lasts that long. Yes, we have to start somewhere, so "go right ahead." But there are many, many other things you can do to cut back on your own personal greenhouse gas emissions, which will likely match or exceed spending a lot of money on a battery electric vehicle right now.
I see it this way. It’s a matter of maturity. When we were young, we ran out of gas in our cars. As we became more mature drivers we stopped running out of fuel. I haven’t run out of fuel in an ice vehicle in decades. An EV is no different. Why would I be more susceptible to run out of charge in an EV?
Because there is a gas station at every exit and town, not the same for EV. When there is fast DC station every 25 miles on the highway or interstate, then it will be closer to a gas car.
@@hintzod I don’t see the fact that gas or diesel stations are more convenient part of the issue. During my daily commute, I pretty much know where all of the chargers are located. Of the maybe 5% of my driving that’s long distance, I just need to plan out my trip noting the charger locations and planning my charging strategy.
@@MYJ61 much higher frequency of chargers being inoperable compared to gas stations(at least ccs not so much Tesla). Not a chance I’m going that low in a EV with family in the car yet.
@@MrTaphius completely understandable.
I am increasingly concerned with battery health/longevity as SOC increases above 70% and decreases below 30%,
I have been driving EVs for over 5 years. And I disagree with you. 10% is the lowest I would go to. Not due to the speed of charging. But being an engineer electrical one. I can tell you that you should not take it that low as you are really very low in the voltage. This is bad all around for the battery.
That's pretty much what he's saying in the video.
If you watch the video I say 10% is perfectly ok. It’s when you regularly go below that when you might start to have issues.
@@eanderson1956 no he is saying run it down like Kyle does slide in on empty
Looks like you didn’t watch the whole video.
Turtlemode. Worst invention ever!!! 🐢🐢🐢🤬😡😠
So much road noise in this car, making it really hard to listen to them speak
A lot of misinformation here. Degradation charts clearly show that tanking the charge in a battery to 10% or 5% continually/repeatedly does impact long term life for a battery.
Those glasses are ridiculous.