PT Boat - Giant Killers part 1 of 3
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- PT Boat Video by ELCO during World War II. Elco (The Elco Naval Division) Bayonne, New Jersey, produced the largest number of PT boats for the US Navy during WWII. Other manufacturers were Higgins in New Orleans and Huckins in Jacksonville, Florida. The most produced Elco PT was the 80-foot boat, the same type, PT 109, lost by John F. Kennedy during WWII.
Thank you...I am very fond of PT's and I thouroughly enjoyed the series... what a beauty these boats were. They must have smelled great below deck, when they were brand-spankin' new. I have spoken to a few guy who served on PT's and they said the sound of the engines at full throttle was one of the most beautiful sounds they ever heard. Peace.
Wonder how many people recognized that slide rule for what it was?
We went to the moon and back...using slide rules.
I use slide rules still today. I own several different slide rules and have seen many more. But I do not recognize that particular rule. The length to width is interesting.
I used on every day , I have used one this morning .
@Secret Squirrel -- I've used circular slide rules as well as regular ones. I still have my mother's slide rule from when she was a chemistry major at Brooklyn College in the late 1930's. Showed it once (1989) to some young engineers -- they had no clue what it was.
I did,Ed!
could you imagine how great America would be if they had managed to keep such a classy industry
Probably because they needed the aluminum for all the airplanes they were building. Back in WW2 all branches of the service had to fight tooth and nail for every ton of material they needed.
I have a boat my dad gave me, it was built in the mid-40's or right after WWII and it's built of magnesium as aluminum was in short supply.
The wood was also light, cheap, easy to repair & invisible to radar
It stands for Patrol Torpedo.
My gradfather served on the elco boats in Rons 1 and 2. He was on the 109 under Kennedy and then on the 59 again under Kennedy after the 59 had had her torpedo tubes removed and been converted in to a gun boat. His name was Edgar Mauer.
@Big Bill O'Reilly ha! Instead of Russian mafia rigging the election, Kennedy relied on the good ol' dago mafia!
@J Calhoun only sissy teenagers use the term "soy".
My Dad was on The 356 Ron 37 stationed in Balikapan. Served under Adm. Bull Halsey. He knew Kennedy as a young Lt. and was part of every major battle in the S. Pacific. From Wake Island to Saipan. They were a constant thorn for the Tokyo express supply barges.
@Big Bill O'Reilly I have three children proudly serving in the
U. S. N. I was ecstatic when President Trump won. This is a tribute to those who pulled together and fought for the peace we have enjoyed. I'm sincerely grateful to them all.
Wow. I read about him when I was 11
They're really cool when you see them in person. They have some at Fall River, Ma.
My father was on PT167 "Who me?" His name was William Dean Lynch. I believe one of my dad's shipmates Nick Carter is shown in the movie portion of 167 I believe he was the boat engine operator. Always looking for PT info . Thanks for posting. Can't wait to show his grandsons.
Wow amazing is he still alive?
I wish the Navy had better torpedoes at this time and even earlier
Me,too! What a disgraceful failure rate.Think of the tonnage that "got away"!
@@david9783 Think of the wasted lives trying to sink that tonnage. And not one Admiral got demoted because of it. Sort of like the bankers in 2008.
The PT boats used the same type of aerial torpedo as USN aircraft. Those were never fully effective during WWII. The Navy used the TBF/TBM as a level bomber. A torpedo attack against a destroyer or cruiser was suicidal because of anti-aircraft armament..That's why the PT morphed into heavily armed gunboats.
This was in the day of making a living on one wage.
What a wonderful story !!
“Devil Boats I tell ya, Devil Boats they are.” said Tojo......
My uncle worked at Elco in Bayonne,its a shame the yards ae no longer there but in this video I seen a guy who looked like him too bad he passed away I wish he could see this.
The entire process of development, manufacturing, and support of this effort, occurred on paper.
You are correct, metal was precious, wood was plentiful.
Hence the Mosquito bomber turned fighter, plusxtge existence of a furniture industry sitting on its hands.
Also harder to pick up on radar.
My Grandfather was a surgeon stationed in Hawaii doing WWII, he would go set up surgical units in the pacific. It would take 3-4 weeks to transfer wounded soldiers to larger hospitals. He often would hear the PT boats on patrol at night. I was able to read medical journals that he wrote, because those brave navy guys watched over his guys.
"and the speed to get away if the first KO punch misses" Now THERE'S a product endorsement!
Or does not explode! USN Torpedoes were junk at the beginning of the War. They were so expensive, and few that they never received the scrutiny. Japan had the best and the Germans were far better than ours.
Run like. Hell !!!! We missed !!!
@@thetigerstripes : Actually, it was "Fish away, let's get the hell out of here!" They would be on the next attack run by the time the first torpedo hit.
Love the sound of those motors running wide open.
ralph AAAAHHHH Those PACKARD M2500 purposed designed for the PT Boats !!!!
"Like riding a thunderbolt on a corrugated road... that was a Patrol Torpedo Boat."
"Work-stained wretches." I resemble that statement.
I was in New Orleans recently and had the opportunity to ride on PT 305. Although not the same model of boats in the videos, she was similar in all respects. Powered by the same three Packard V-12s, riding on a restored WWII PT boat was the dream of a lifetime come true. PT 305 was lovingly brought back to original condition by volunteers at the National World War II Museum located in New Orleans, also the home of Higgins Industries, the original builder of PT 305.
I BET THAT WAS A COOL RIDE, WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT
OH YEA! The sound of 36 pistons slamming away, open exhaust, with the wind in your face would be the ride of a life time.
Torpedoes were originally just sea mines, then they were propelled by some internal mechanism to their target, hence: motorized Propeller Torpedoes
When my dad was in the Navy, he served on the USS Oriskany for its shakedown cruise. He was talking to a group of guys, and this one guy kept rocking forward and back the whole time they were talking. When the guy walked away, he asked the other guys, "WTF is wrong with that guy?" One of them replied "You mean Rocky? Nothing. He just spent the last two years as the cook on a PT boat." I guess you had to do that to keep your balance, to keep from getting tossed into the stove or on your ass while trying to cook when underway.
Just think of the amount of fuel those babies used when the engines were open on full!
According to the guys who served on them, frequently NOT fast enough to get away. Between degraded fuel, maintenance shortfalls, tropical oceanic hull fouling and real world sea conditions, Japanese destroyers were often able to move faster.
Pity the USN didn't have the sense to use Albert Hickman's (non standard) hull design for a truly fast torpedo boat. He offered the British and US Navies what we now call tunnel hulls, or high speed catamaran boats starting in WWI... The test samples DID go faster than a destroyer, and in 10' + waves.
spoonercentral.com/knappseasleds/sled3.html
web.archive.org/web/20080509103631/ivb-boats.netfirms.com/Hickman_Bio.html
This was the era of when America was truly great for all her
citizens not just the 1% that have taken over our country and left us with
economic slavery and few if any competent tradesmen. Thank to our politicians; corporations,
Wall Street and Bankers.
You would be much happier in a communist country. That is the philosophy you are conveying.
@@TexasHoosier3118 I worked and lived in a Communist country for a few years and so know firsthand what living there is like. If you believe in economic slavery you would better fit in with the Communist than what America once was and would be if not for the self-serving, politicians and corporations that don't even bother to represent the best interest of the majority of American Citizens and then again maybe you did not live during the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s when everyone in American could live with dignity and or respect???
They rejected my answer to you as I guess I am not PC correct? I worked in China for a few years, they like you believe in economic slavery. I was alive and well during the 50's,60,s and 70,s when all Americans that wanted jobs had jobs and the cost of living was peg at the lowest pay like sweeping the streets an All working Americans could live with dignity and respect, not like it is today...
2:01 oh slide rule. I collected some when first came to America!
That one is huge.
Guess something with the fuse wasn't working on American Torpedoes Japanese Torpedoes were Superior they even use wood fins on them they were highly accurate, if our Torpedoes work during World War II would have sunk maybe I'd say even just a guesstimation 17% to 35% more enemy shipping
I thought the problem was folk and I would of been write with them was drinking the fuel, ha
I'm really impressed by the size of slide rule used by that one designer. Personally, I used to carry a ten inch slide rule (Post Versalog) during college, and thought it was pretty big.
Hahaha it's not the size of your slide rule it's how well you can do math with it
Jim Shoemaker: Larger slide rules are inherently more accurate, if built to the same standards. So with a larger slide rule you could do your math better, all other things being equal.
The boats didn't do shit. It was the CREWS.
The boats got them to the fight !!! carried the guns DUUUUUHHHH!!!!!!
god this is so cool, I didnt realize they were so big tho.. I thought they were like 34-38 ft not 70,77,80 ft.. Ive wanted a PT BOat for a long time, they are so cool and haul ass
Yeah. They are a lot bigger in person than they appear on film.
But we got them now we got good torpedoes they work!!
Wish they made them today!
These old documentaries are excellent! I always liked PT's even tho my grandpa flew the B-26...
My Aunt was a welder making the PT Boats.
Is it difficult to weld plywood?
@@BillFromTheHill100
They weren't made ENTIRELY of plywood, there was still steel components that would have needed welding, ie gun mounts, motor mounts etc etc, every single part wasn't plywood.
@@dukecraig2402 They were not plywood either they used 2 layers of 1" mahogany PLANKING with a treated canvas in between !!! Plenty video showing planking NOT PLYWOOD !!!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142
Yes it was plywood, it just wasn't plywood made the same way as the kind used in a house but it's still plywood, marine grade plywood.
You yourself just said it, multiple layers with the grain in different directions, that's what "ply" wood is.
There's more than one type of plywood, you just think the kind used in home construction is the only kind, it isn't.
Elco boats beautiful, but not as well built or designed as the Higgins boats. Elco 77 footrs make good gunboats after Guadalcanal.
How in the hell did he resaw the length of that piece by hand in a band saw?
Skill. He obviously knew what he was doing........he appeared to have all of his fingers.
Small, swarming boats. Sounds like Iran vs US.
Bob Rabinoff ....sounds like America annihilating Israel who starts all the fucking wars that get our kids murdered....not Iran...they aint bothering anyone .but they dont own the Zionist media thats used as a weapon that programms idiots to make stupid remarks .
I didn't realize that PT boats were big in the Balkans.
@Lorkiff PT-8 was built at Philadelphia Naval Shipyard in Louisiana was built entirely from aluminum but did not pass the speed acceptance criteria for use as a PT Boat for the U.S. Navy due to its weight. She was reclassified as a harbor patrol boat for the duration of the war. Just an FYI that I discovered, I don't know if it was the ship you sailed on or not, yet I wanted you to know what I had found Thank you for your service to our country and the people of the USA. Take it light
--KB
Excellent!
If there was carbon fiberglass at that time, there would be a million of this by the end of the war xD
Thanks for posting this set.
Such a lot of work involved. Was weight the the primary reason for not using steel?
No. Wood was the common material for boats back then.
That plant looked like a great place to work, sign me up,lol
The factory is probably no more.
PT Boats or Motor Torpedo Boats as the Brits called them, were developed off the tail of the Offshore Power Boat Races in the 30's. The PT boat concept was pushed to the US by the British MTB designer. I believe some were sold to the US before they started their own PT Boat Design / Production
Correct.
Wrong.
In the movie, "They Were Expendable", why didnt the misnumbered Elco 80 footers have a 20mm Oerlikon mounted on the stern? Anybody?
Daniel Brown just guessing that because the movie was set in 1941 they weren’t mounted yet.
What are some hull numbers which were on the boats in the movie? The movie is dated 1945 so they might have been filming in "44.
The two 80' Elcos and four 78' Huckins PTs used in "They Were Expendable" were meant to represent the six 77' Elco PTs of Motor Torpedo Boat Squadron 3, which did not carry 20mm Oerlikon guns on their sterns.
Just remember, many served most honorably well outside of combat theaters. Hats off, a Yankee Stadium cheer and a big thank you the men and women who built these amazing machines!
*
"The best." The American way.
It probably refers to Motor Torpedo Squadron Three under the command of John D. Bulkeley in the Philippines during the early months of U.S. involvement in WWII. See the Wikipedia article on the book and movie titled "They Were Expendable."
Basically, considered useless in an end of the war assessment. Nice idea, cheap to build, lots of thrill but a low kill effectiveness and very vulnerable to aircraft ambush. Not all good ideas work out. Kennedy put a tank gun on his because the standard PT boat wasn't cutting it against barges.
In his "Tales of the South Pacific", author James Michener stated that it was a shame that a great naval power as the US had to rely on such boats.
Guess that's why the Navy resurrected the concept during the Vietnam war with the PBR.
@@dalecomer5951 The 1940 PT's were blue water V hulls, uncomfortable but built to deal with seas, armed with torpedos, and with an enclosed engineering and command space. "Blue water navy", trying to deal with Japanese supply shuttles in the 'Slot"
The Vietnam era Riverine hulls were flatter bottom 'swamp boats' for shallow water, narrow river channels, and for noseing in and off of mud banks.. The deck was an open floor plan with automatic ordinance, for dealing with close-in situations and checking sampans in the Delta. "Brown water navy"
It is interesting that the German E/S-type boats were preferred by some of the Navy with it ocean-going capability and diesel engines. But the idea of an aluminum boat for Pacific use would have turned the crew into steamed oysters in the tropical heat......and for every wooden boat built, another plane could use the aluminum.
After their invention, navies around the world had the capacity to bring down huge capital ships with these little tiny (very inexpensive) boats. Big navies like the United States and Great Britain suddenly needed a new type of ship... something capable of protecting their huge (very costly) battleships and cruisers. It had to be fast enough to catch the dangerous little boats, yet strong enough to quickly and effectively sink them. And so came the boat class christened the *"Torpedo Boat Destroyers"...* which we rather quickly reduced to the more simple name, *"Destroyers"* -- And now you know why we call them that.
Awesome video. Gonna binge watch the other two now.
H.
Wood was easier to build and quicker. Aluminum and steel were critical for aircraft carriers, aircraft, and other capital ships. This is the same reason the H-1 (spruce goose) was also made of wood.
Don't forget the Mosquito airplane. Probably the most famous and successful wooden war implement of WWII.
@Hammerschlägen M Geoffrey De Haviland, as well reputed as he was, had great difficulty with the Air Ministry to allow him to even build a plane of wood Then, once the okay was given, the Ministry still was in great doubt of the capability of the Mosquito. Throughout the whole process De Haviland was scoffed and ridiculed. But he had the last laugh and we are the better for it.
Wood was the traditional material for large power boats and the U.S. had wooden boat builders on every coast.
Impressive construction. Sometimes they were called 'mosquito' boats. Does anyone know if it was because of the tremendous punch it was packin' in the little body, or perhaps it was due to the all wood, British recon/fighter-bomber of the RAF?
I Just Sold my VALCO......12'6" With a 15 HP Merc......I didn't know I had a Fighting Machine....The only thing I Fought was Large Mouth Bass.
@jaratt85 The WWI boats (mainly sub chasers for UK) weight 300tons w/ speeds between 23-27kt. The first plan for WW2 PTs were 55' long, the second plan was for 70'. Eventually the PT achieved its design length of 78-81 ft and had to be able to go 41+kt at 50tons, most were able to do well over that speed. The PT had highest firepower/ton. They had 3000gal fuel capacity, at max speed all three engines consumed 500gal/hr at 41+kts at 23kt consumption was 200gals/hr.
take it light
--KB
There is one you can ride one at New Orleans.
Packard V12 👍
YES M2500 !!!!
I'm not to keen on the idea of being called "expendable". The only people that I think are expendable are the rich and powerful. Their the only group that I believe will have plenty of volunteers to replace them in society.
Everyone in the armed forces is"expendable" in wartime. "The mission" will always come before personnel and resources. WAR is older, mostly prosperous men, sending younger, mostly not so prosperous men, to kill and die for......... (fill in the blank). Its always been this way....
@@GFSLombardo Then let's not play their game. If they draft you, you will be sent to prison. Serve your time and come out with both your legs and arms and other valuable stuff. It will also cost the government $60000 a year to keep you there and if enough young draftees do this it will cost the government way to much. They will probably release you. Now you may think they will shoot you for not fighting, but the news media wouldn't allow that to happen. Neither would the UN. The leaders of this country would become war criminals. So again let's not play their game. Let them go fight for their money.
a wooden speed boat was not exactly high tech. most any country had P.T.'s common tech. it's just the U.S. Navy where they had their most famous service. rescueing General macArthur, Attacking the Tokyo express in the solmons, scouts at Sariago straight.
These ELCO PT Boats were Based on a British Design by the,
British Power Boat Company
= Awsome !
WRONG !!! The Brit boat inspired but Elco and Higgins desined their own boats !! !
Nice,thxs for the video,love stuff like this,like to have one on lake cumberland dearing the poker run,ha,gb
Ahhhhh....., Thee Expendables. Us ! 2:53min. "Save the Mules!!" har
They seem to have airbrushed out the two British coastal attack boats they borrowed from the British in 1930, and that the early Elco boats used to actually fall to pieces because of very poor construction techniques.
Elco bought a 70 ft. MTB from the British Power Boat Co. in 1939. It served as a model for Elco's subsequent designs. So the short longevity of the Elco PT boats would have been due to poor British construction techniques.
@@dalecomer5951 MTBs didn't fall to pieces. They were notably robust and several are still in use as houseboats.
My dad served two years on a Destroyer in the Atlantic and two years in the Pacific on a Pt Boat. I lost everything in a fire. He also was in the Occupation of Japan. I had all those Medals, his dress Blues. I am broken hearted about losing all the information about what ships he was on. He worked a few years trying to get the PT Museum in Memphis, TN. Men fighting Battle Ships, Cruisers, and Destroyers on plywood. In a couple of Pacific Battles the PT Boats were the first to attack. They shot Torpedoes from a long way off rarely connecting with their targets but they caused confusion like being Attacked by Mosquitos. The Mosquito Fleet they were called. PT Sailors never had high Ranking officers usually just a Lieutenant or so over a few boats. They were the dregs of the Navy and the best thieves of the war. Dad said they had everything they needed and if they didn't they stole to get what they wanted or needed. He said when they would sail close to a Air Craft Carriers in the Harbors they would yell up th the sailors on the Carrier's. How do you like shore duty. He only mentioned the funny things that happened. Over the years I figured out none of those survivors ever talked about the bad crap that happened. Guess they had to block that stuff out as much as possible. I sure miss him.
Great video.
Nicely made !
How fast ?
As a kid i always wanted a PT boat. It wasn't until I was a teenager I realized how big they actually were and that it would take 4 or 5 of my buddies from the neighborhood, plus myself, to operate it. In the last 10 years or so, I often wondered if you had the blueprints what it would cost to go 1/2 the length, 35'/40', fiberglass/kevlar and one CumminsMarine diesel along with bow thrusters, etc. With the materials available today it would be just as strong and lighter to handle rough waters and would be fairly easy on the fuel. I am 61 now and looking back on the models I built as a kid I and watching Mchale's Navy, PT Squadron and other shows, I am surprised the size didn't hit me until later on.
I don't know how much it would cost,Ernest;let's just say a ton of money...but just think how cool THAT would look pulling into the local marina!!!
@@david9783 I don't know either, but it would cut into my budget for the P-38 and TIger tank I also wanted as a kid. Oh yeah, put a M-29 Weasel on that list.
@soaringtractor Yeah, I hear you. Plus I would have to recruit some of the people I know that aren't exactly what you would call the boating/nautical types. It would be pretty cool though. Maybe a PBR would be more in line, they are only 30 footers with jet drives. ;)
we must have them not detonate them as they did in the past
8
Did the PT boat carry a spare propeller in case of damage in service?
Yes
My understanding is that it was very difficult to maintain V-12 aircraft engines in a crampted marine enviroment.
Michael The Packard M2500 was NOT an aircraft engine !!! It was a clean sheet purpose designed for the PT boats but it did take some design features from aircraft engines !! All aluminum, 4 vales per cylinder over head cams and supercharged !!! This PT Boat engine was NEVER used in an aircraft !!!
Michael Cramped ???? Have you seen video of a PT boats engine compartment ????
@@wilburfinnigan2142
No it wasn't, it was simply a Packard V12 aircraft engine from the 20's that was based on the Liberty engine, what made the marine variant was simply that it had a transmission bolted on the front of the engine where the prop reduction gear was bolted on.
@@dukecraig2402 WRONG !!!! Completely different engine, and the way it was made, Based on the crank and rods/Pistons from the 1A2500 but different crankcase block heads it was supercharged. Do the research duuuuuuhhhhh!!!!! There is a video on you tube Packard Marine V12 and it explains the difference go look it up !!!
What does PT stand for?
Patrol TORPEDO !!!
Spurgu87 patrol torpedo
nice video but they dont say who build the first, and till WW2 and in WW2 the best, fast, amored, and strongest WW2 PTs ... and this wasnt the USA, and who sunk the most ships with PTs ? this wasnt the usa, too ...
You limeys would be speaking German and eating sauerkraut if the USA had not pulled your bacon out of the fire TWICE. And please explain why England was begging for every Vosper we could build for your navy if your shit was SO GOOD?
Packard V12 , wasn't that a RR Merlin copy of sorts . I'm sure I read its full name was the Packard Merlin .
@@rosscharlie5349 WRONG !!!! WRONG !!! ALL FUKIN WRONG !!!! Where the hell you get that Idea???? Packard delivered these engines to the US Navy starting in 1938 and the limeys from RR showed up in 1940 to beg Packard to build the Merlin. Packard ran its first merlin in Aug 1941 !!!!! Do the math !!! Also RR came to Packard because the Packard M2500 had already been delivered to the Brits for their air sea rescue boat !!! NOPE the Packard M2500 was a clean sheet design by Packard Jesse Vincent purpose designed and built for the PT Boats !!! Some input from Packards A2500 aircraft engine but only the displacement was the same !!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 Incorrect.
Wilbur Finnigan Wow! How many sock accounts has soaringtractor got these days? I know he doesn't like using his real name because his family were interred as enemy aliens during the war but this is ridiculous!
they had airplane motors. Imagine the guts it took to attack a cruiser with a wooden speed boat.
kdraper2007 The M2500 was a purpose designed and built PT Boat engine !!! It was NEVER used in an aircraft !!!! Although it took the inspiration, all aluminum from aircraft engines !!!
The PT's were powered by a drivitive of the WWI Liberty engines. Each boat had 3 engines,
Aeroplnut Each boat had 3 engines but the M2500 was a clean sheet purpose designed for the PT boats!! Liberty was 1650 Cu In AIR COOLED M2500 was yes 2500 cu in and water cooled and supercharged !!!
@Wilbur Finnegan: Suggest you read the Wikipedia article on the Packard 1A-2500.
@@dalecomer5951 Don't need to as I have read ALL the current and correct info on the M2500.. Suggest you google PTBOATS.com and educate your dumb ass !! ALSo google and read for read on line "PACKARD as an AERO engine builder, Packard merlin by Robert J Neal, it also discusses the M2500 and how it was a CLEAN sheet design By Jesse Vincent and how he drew on his experience with it for the M2500 !!! Libety asshole was an air cooled V12 of 1650 cu in disp.......M2500 was a water cooled enfine of 2500 cu in displace ment and it was purpose designed for the US Navy !!! Packard had quite a history in boat racing as they dominated the Harmsworth trophy race for years by using a similiwr engine. The liberty was set aside for boat racing early on as air cooling does not work well in a marine application !!!
FWIR, the only battleship US PT boats sank was a US battleship.
Al Zair, is that the ISIS propaganda of the week ?
"Faster than a bullet?" - where do you get these slow bullets. The boats are great but don´t exaggerate.
Are we not showing the enemy how.....
such a waste of natural resources ,,, African mahogany .. for what ? war .. fkn war
In the end,I would rather have the natural resources used to help win a deadly serious world war than provide you with a coffee table.
@@spikespa5208 .. I don't have a coffee table .. War is a waste of time .. its all about destruction .. using valuable resources to kill people ..
@@ptsmith4660 You speaking German or English??
@@ptsmith4660 Your mother's calling you, she has milk and cookies ready for you in her basement.
In 5,000 years of human history there has been less than fifty years without war. I'm talking war, not some battle. You do know why there is war? Evil in the heart. There is the much larger waste.